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Red Pill TheoryHow to Develop a Rock-Solid Frame That Magnetically Attracts Women (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by [deleted]

[deleted]


[–]Ostradamus 87 points88 points  (6 children)

Great post. Lifting and changing habits is easy compared to developing a strong frame. This is one thing I really need to work on and your post is insightful and detailed.

[–]NoFapColdShower 15 points16 points  (5 children)

good point but they are necessary because they put you into a good position from which to develop that frame.

[–]Enlightened_Chimp 14 points15 points  (3 children)

Lifting and training MMA have significantly improved my frame. Being strong, muscular and knowing that physically no one can impose on you automatically strengthens frame because it diminishes your fear of a negative outcome.

[–]Conradooo 5 points6 points  (0 children)

This so much. I don't know how relevant it is to frame (don't fully understand the concept yet), but take up boxing, mma or a martial art can totally change the perception of the world around you through confidence. No more crossing the street or flexing slightly or heart rate increase just because a bigger or seedy looking guy walks past.

[–]NoFapColdShower 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Yeah I bet, I try to hit the bags a couple times a week. Been putting thought into joining my colleges MMA club. Maybe it'll help me with my frame.

[–]Psychocist 1 point2 points  (0 children)

But don't fall into the trap of thinking you need to DO anything to develop strong frame. It's all in your head. You can have an immovable frame just by knowing who you are and where you are going.

[–][deleted] 14 points15 points  (1 child)

Having accomplishments and self-improving clearly help one develop a stronger frame, but it can't be overlooked that having a strong frame is itself a skill that for most people has to be deliberately worked at even if you're already the man in 100 other ways.

We know this because there are people with incredible frame that are effectively losers. These people are never losers who are self-conscious about themselves. They're losers who don't give a flying fuck.

Now, you don't want to be a loser that doesn't give a flying fuck. You want to be a winner who doesn't give a flying fuck. But that's a difficult thing to become. It's also probably the best possible thing for a man to become.

While you improve in other respects, one of the things you can do to consciously work on developing stronger frame is to set hard rules for yourself about what you'll express in an interaction. The most important is to never express any sense of having been offended or hurt by something either her or anyone else said. That includes complaining to her about things other people said or empathizing with her if she herself complains. Almost nothing is a more clear break in frame than being emotionally hurt by the noises coming out of other people's mouths.

If she can make you upset, you're not the alpha male she's looking for (move along, move along).

[–]TRP_MushaShugyo 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This is a really great addendum, thanks.

[–][deleted] 27 points28 points  (6 children)

Most young guys lack frame because they don't know who they are, or what they want. Just like a house, you start with a weak foundation, any frame you build on top of that will be weak as well.

[–]Anonymous_Caucasian 9 points10 points  (4 children)

How do I figure this out. I'm 27 and still confused when I ask myself those two questions.

[–]M1ster_X 5 points6 points  (1 child)

This goes a lot into finding your life's goal/task. Is there some passion or purpose you have that you enjoy? Your life needs to be in order and have some kind of purpose to it. Women and sex are just a bonus to that.

To quote RSDMax in one of his videos, "My life is like a bowl of ice cream, and women are just the toppings."

[–]TheRealYekke 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It's funny, not until 35 do we get the option to turn off the sex drive momentarily , and not until 48 can we completely turn it off. The amount of time I wasted on pussy could have been used to get to 7 figures a year

[–]leonardo_mac_4 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Try the Jordan Peterson self-authoring program - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoGdMpdZXzs

[–]CanuckinFL 10 points11 points  (7 children)

I'm offering a suggestion that in many ways, the only real way to have an authentic frame-is, quite counter-intuitively...

you have to like yourself deeply. I mean real deep. Into the solar plexus deep. Nothing moves that, and nothing shakes that.

Because it's relevant- Rudyard Kipling's "IF" is worth a read- won't repost it all, it's lengthy but it starts-

"If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you, But make allowance for their doubting too; If you can wait and not be tired by waiting, Or being lied about, don’t deal in lies, Or being hated, don’t give way to hating, And yet don’t look too good, nor talk too wise..."

Google that shit for the rest. Words to live by

PS-note there is not one single reference in that poem with regard to women.

[–]iamneptuno -5 points-4 points  (6 children)

you have to like yourself deeply. I mean real deep. Into the solar plexus deep. Nothing moves that, and nothing shakes that.

Yes, you have to have a healthy self image first and foremost.

The problem is that it is formed very early in life, in the first five years or so, and after that can't be changed.

In other words, if you were unlucky enough to have retarded parents and they fucked you up, there's nothing you can do, literally nothing.

[–]Psychocist 4 points5 points  (1 child)

and after that can't be changed.

False. Changed my self-image many times over. It is tar, not cement.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (3 children)

Might as well all commit suicide then... Because we can't do a damn thing about it, right. Stop posting and start reading.

*Useless and untrue comment above. Read with care

[–]iamneptuno -1 points0 points  (2 children)

Don't exaggerate, boyo, I never said anything about suicide.

Because we can't do a damn thing about it, right.

"The idea that there are situations where you can't do a damn thing about it hurts my feels, therefore, it's invalid." Great argument.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

''Just because I say something can't be changed means it's true and when someone challenges it, I call their argument bad''. There is no evidence that self esteem can't be changed if you didn't have optimal conditions in childhood.

I never said there aren't situations that can't be changed. I said that the situation we were talking about can be. Read more, post less.

[–]iamneptuno -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Self image is formed during early years, then it's cemented to avoid damage during real life, much like the bones later.

You don't understand psychology.

[–]Senior Endorsed ContributorVasiliyZaitzev 43 points44 points  (21 children)

Frame comes from confidence and confidence comes from becoming excellent at something. So one way to develop frame is to become exceptional at something.

Another (and described by the OP) is to work on your social weaknesses until they become strengths.

Finally, frame must be maintained. To wit, OLTR2 was giving me some shit last night because I had bee out in the sun longer than I had planned and got a bit of a burn on the side of my neck. It's quite red, but without much pain, because that's who I roll. So she started picking at me until she reached the point where she got a Stern Look and a "What is WRONG with you?" out of me.

Her: "It's ok. Forget it. I was just being how women are....fuck with men's brains."

{Translation: "Your frame is stronger than mine. I was testing you."}

Me: "I have older sisters. I am immune. I have seen it all."

Her: "So you know. I always try to avoid this kind of behavior, but honestly it is natural. Like all women do it. I can't help it"

Translation: AWALT!

Me: "Yes. I know. But the first step in any recovery is recognizing that a problem exists."

She is struggling with her resistance at the moment. She's actually quite clever and runs her own small, successful business, which puts her waaaaaay ahead of most 22 year-olds. OTOH, she's totally stressed out all the time and is coming to grips with the fact that her best move, as it relates to me, is submission, and giving in to my calming, masculine leadership. So she took another step down the path.

And so it goes...

[–][deleted] 17 points18 points  (4 children)

Frame comes from confidence and confidence comes from becoming excellent at something.

Not exclusively. Ever interact with a ghetto street kids? I have; many times. Those kids had frame for days and weren't good at shit. But they sure were seasoned by life. You can still have frame if you're not an expert at something....you just need to get out there (as op suggests) and practice life.

[–]Senior Endorsed ContributorVasiliyZaitzev 5 points6 points  (3 children)

Don't mistake bravado for frame.

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (2 children)

That's a fair point, but I spent enough time with them to say with confidence they had some serious frame....which came from life showing them the ropes. My point is still the same. You don't have to be good at something to have a solid frame.

[–]Shaman6624 2 points3 points  (0 children)

He says that right after he says what you quoted " another way to develop frame is to work on your social weaknesses until they become strengths" those getto kids got a lot of shit thrown at them. That's why they where forced to work on their frame.

[–]Psychocist 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I agree. I actually think it's weak frame to believe you have to DO something to achieve a strong frame. You're just throwing conditions on top it. My frame used to be weak as hell until I started to internalise the fact that no fucker is responsible for my life. I don't need to be excellent at something or know MMA or have a muscular frame or be socially dominent or know how to spell.

I know who I am and I know where I'm going and I respect everybody is on their own path. I need not an iota more to have immovable frame.

[–]10211799107 1 point2 points  (15 children)

OLTR2... other long term relationship 2?

If yes, how do you manage multiple LTRs while keeping them oblivious? especially if you go out etc. Oraybe there's a guide I missed

[–]Senior Endorsed ContributorVasiliyZaitzev 16 points17 points  (13 children)

OLTR2... other long term relationship 2?

OLTR = Open Long Term Relationship. They are only open on my side, of course, because if they weren't then they'd be plates or FWB or something other than OLTRs.

If yes, how do you manage multiple LTRs while keeping them oblivious? especially if you go out etc. Oraybe there's a guide I missed

I do not "take the pledge" and if they want to walk, they can walk. At the same time, I don't put it up in their face either, although sometimes they find a stray earring-back or whatever. Sometimes they ask direct questions, such as "Are there other women?" to which I respond "There will always be other women." I haven't taken the pledge so they haven't "lost" anything, etc.

They are, of course, free to leave at any time, as I am. OLTR2 did exactly that, in February. She broke up with me, I said, "OK" and she lasted a day and a half. She actually told me that she wound up feeling like I had dumped her because I didn't chase her - she's a hard 9 and guys usually chase. As I wasn't watching 100% of my pussy supply walk out the door, I could easily maintain my frame.

OLTR1 has been around from the time she was 19, and she will turn 22 later this year. She is painfully introverted, and has no interest in meeting other men.

Also, your question pre-supposes that they don't know each other. I have, in the past, dated two roommates (for about a year), and I also (at a different time) dated two women who were basically genetic twins (although not actually related). They looked so much alike that I mistook the 2nd one for the 1st, who I was meeting out. There is maybe 1 cm and half a kg difference between them. Anyway, since I knew #1 would be DTF the other chick, I stuck around until she arrived and eventually I was dating both of them, openly, usually together, but not always depending on their schedules. #2 was two years younger and had more free time, so she spent a lot of her time naked, at my place, and #1 would turn up when she could. Eventually #1 turned 27 and wanted exclusivity, which I declined to give and she chose - as she was free to do - to walk.

So how could I make this happen? Frame, MFers.

[–]10211799107 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Appreciate the answer. I only ask because I started seeing an 8, after three years climbed the ladder in quality, life is awesome right now it feels like it's speeding up way too fast. Not complaining though. I was in an LTR, attraction dwindled as she got complacent with her weight. (I'm 6'2, she's 6'0,i lift heavy but we weighed about 10lbs apart. Not a fan of that especially since she didn't lift at all. She didn't look fat coz of her height).

This HB8 is head over heels, but I keep the boundaries. Never realized how easy this is. Just been wondering how to set it up from the start that I'm not an exclusive guy. Your explanation is spot on thank you.

[–]drnemola 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Do you allow them to see other men or do you brake the tie?

[–]Senior Endorsed ContributorVasiliyZaitzev 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Do you allow them to see other men or do you brake the tie?

The OLTRs? No. That's why they are OLTRs. If they saw other men then they would just be plates or FWBs. It keeps their n-counts down, keeps them from getting fucked in the head over some other guy and also keeps them from bringing home some unauthorized flora or fauna.

[–]disgruntledearthling 0 points1 point  (0 children)

They are only open on my side, of course, because if they weren't then they'd be plates or FWB or something other than OLTRs.

Listen up to Uncle Vasiliy boys

[–]Endorsed Contributorsqerl 0 points1 point  (1 child)

So how could I make this happen? Frame, MFers.

Going thru this now. R1 was pretty confident as she knew she was the primary and knew P1 (plate) was being discarded for continued infractions. R2 appears and suddenly (but not surprisingly) R1's confidence is shaken. When denied exclusivity and an open relationship (on her side), she tried to leave. Told her to sit down and stay. She listened, stayed, and now understands. Their security is found through your frame, confidence, and leadership. Own it. Live it.

[–]BinaryResult 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Have you ever shared body pics? Curious about your physical frame.

[–]Senior Endorsed ContributorVasiliyZaitzev 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I am ~6'2", blond over blue, full beard (not 'grandfather' length, but like Ben Affleck's, maybe a bit fuller, although I do not otherwise resemble him). Beyond that I am not particularly handsome and I'm built remarkably like a nose tackle. Much more "Odin" than "Thor". Unless you, yourself are a large man, it is entirely likely that my biceps is bigger around than your neck, etc.

The women that I go for are in the group that actively prefer an older man. They WANT a Daddy. They want a man who can seamlessly navigate life and tell them what to do, and so that the only responsibility they have is to look pretty and defer to his leadership. Also, I cast my nets among taller women, 5'8" minimum, but typically 5'10" plus, who not only want a tall man but who also want a man who can dominate them, physically, with ease. Thus my girls tend to be tall, submissive, introverts. Works for them, works for me.

[–]PreOrgasmGroanLness 0 points1 point  (4 children)

I am 22 and my GF is 20 (3,5 year LTR so far). Recently a couple months ago she moved out of my place (because I couldn't stand living in the same flat with a woman) and I've kinda opened the relationship a few months ago because I felt doing myself a disservice and disrespect by staying attached and in somewhat ONEitis state. She's on the introverted side as well and isn't interested in other guys however obviously I don't exclude that this may happen.

I have one question as to sides in an open relationship. What are the advantages and disadvantages to letting woman be open to other men as well? I am for sure as hell not gonna be exclusive to her, but I wonder what are the advantages and disadvantages to stating to her that she can or cannot potentially chase other males, and what are gonna be the consequences in case she chooses to pursue other. I feel that formally stating she can have other men if she wishes instills fear in me, but not letting does so as well because then I fear she lies to me. I rather have honesty.

I've recently read TSGM so I wonder that maybe letting her do as she pleases but giving good sex should be the choice. She enjoys the rollercoaster sex with me a lot, so maybe she'd choose me anyway.

I am 22 and I don't plan on children in nearest 10 years FOR SURE. Therefore my issue is I don't want to keep her maternal instincts hoping that someday I will have a child with her coz I don't know. She knows that too. And as we all know fertility goes shit for women very fast.

I still have a case of oneitis, though its dissolving steadily, started by regaining control of my environment (forcing her out of the flat) and my lifestyle.

Why do you choose to force exclusivity to you upon the ladies, what's the reasoning behind this as opposed to other ideas?

[–]Senior Endorsed ContributorVasiliyZaitzev 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Why do you choose to force exclusivity to you upon the ladies, what's the reasoning behind this as opposed to other ideas?

It's better for them, mentally. They're happier that way. Anyway, I don't "force" it on anyone, they can either agree to it, remain a plate, or they can walk. No woman is "entitled" to a relationship with me exclusively on her own terms, just as I am not "entitled" to a relationship with any particular woman exclusively on my own terms, however, I have strong frame, and I know what I want, and I'm not afraid to walk away.

[–]PreOrgasmGroanLness 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Why is it better for them mentally?

[–]Senior Endorsed ContributorVasiliyZaitzev 0 points1 point  (1 child)

It keeps the n-count down, and their heads clear.

Men compartmentalize; for women everything is related. Therefore, if they're going to obsess over something, better that it's my dick, and how much they love it, and not how conflicted they are about me and some other dude.

It also keeps the natural hierarchy in place.

[–]PreOrgasmGroanLness 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks. That's what I thought would be best for my LTR girl.

[–]xeneize93 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Wow reading this made me realise i have a weak frame

[–]M1ster_X 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Majority of us do in here. Hence, why we're here. lol

[–]i-Zombie 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Without developing strong principles and character I'm doubtful that the above advice will be of much real use in the longer term, a strong frame requires strong foundations on which to build.

The morals, mental qualities and beliefs that make up our character are often called into question after taking TRP and must be revisited, readjusted and reinforced in light of the new information, personality adjustments come later and more easily.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

cope the only way to have a solid frame is be raised on raw milk and have high t and hgh levels etc

[–]Shaman6624 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Actually there is research that shows that if you behave like a leader. Your testosterone will rise. So it goes both ways. Have strong frame -> get high T for free.

[–]wander_company 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Frame is everything. Every problem i have in life can be traced back to a weak frame. EVERY single one.

Saved. One of the best posts i've ever read

[–]bunny_throwaway 3 points4 points  (2 children)

again to all you newbies here. Fix your looks first. An unattractive guy with frame < an attractive guy with [lesser] frame

[–]MusicSports 3 points4 points  (1 child)

I'd say work on both at the same time if possible.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'd say as your looks improve, you'll get more opportunities to practice game so both improve together.

[–]aegir98 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Excactly what I needed. Upvoted & saved.

[–]redditaccountyep 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Great explanation. Thanks for the post.

[–]TRP_MushaShugyo 0 points1 point  (4 children)

Can you give more examples of actions you can take to strengthen your frame? I like the idea of this as your goal as opposed to pulling.

[–]Psychocist 7 points8 points  (1 child)

Anything that expands your comfort zone will help strengthen your frame. You don't need suggestions - just be mindful of stuff that makes you a little anxious. Perhaps it's cold approach, or public speaking, or dancing, whatever. All day long situations will present themselves that you will resist due to fear. Strengthening your frame would mean leaning into that fear. It will also help develop courage.

I've felt it a few times before going to Salsa lessons, and then in my head I've thought to myself "you know what, fuck you, I'm going. I KNOW it will help me. I'm doing it. I don't care how you feel".

[–]SlappaDaBayssMon 3 points4 points  (1 child)

I heard this piece of advice awhile ago, and it's been popping into my brain a lot lately:

"The thing you're avoiding doing is exactly the thing you should be doing."

Something makes you uncomfortable, do it anyway. Are you afraid of (doing a thing/speaking your mind)? Do it anyway.

Anytime you're reminded of this, you're doing a thing that helps you build your frame.

[–]mooksterr 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Great article, I really like how you broke down the fallacious thinking that being uncallous or unreactive is maintaining a strong frame. I've realized this difference through experience, but I wasn't able to understand the concept/really put into words the difference. Going to check out your site.

[–]Adam1394 0 points1 point  (0 children)

tl;dr Put yourself in situations when you can develop frame.

[–]basebool 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Good post. I like the message of you need to experience it to learn it, not by studying theory.

Also good points by other posters by lifting, leading towards a successful life and legitimate confidence in yourself is great additions.

[–]_MysticFox 0 points1 point  (0 children)

How can you talk to so many people? I can't stand them and I'd rather be monk moding

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Good post but there's just one thing I felt had to be mentioned. the benefits of having a "strong frame" far supersede and transcend "getting laid".

Would've hit much harder of you would have related this to the general dimensions of being a male human being on planet Earth in the year 2017.

I believe the redpill is mostly a much needed, positive, reaffirming movement that has a devastating crutch: a stupid and needy fixation on women and sex. albeit those being an important part of life I see the redpill being so so much more once the core objectives are untainted by this fixation.

[–]aegir98 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Why was this awesome post deleted?

[–]chaosrunssociety 0 points1 point  (2 children)

This place has a gym addiction. I guarantee you can do more strenuous exercise without paying a dime or leaving your house.

[–]vast_rightwing 0 points1 point  (1 child)

whatever workout you're trying to promote, if you can do it at home, you can still get the same workout at the gym. Of course, the reality is that you'll be able to do better at the gym.

[–]chaosrunssociety 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Why does working out in a specific place affect your results? I can't see how it would make a difference - quality excercising = quality excercising period. If you have a trx setup at home or do bodyweight, the gym is pricey and obsolete.

[–]Dragon--- -5 points-4 points  (2 children)

I saved this. One thing I hate about red pill is the way that some materials do take a lopsided misogynistic stance which kinda makes me close the book. This is the type of material I was looking for.

[–]lopsidedlucky 9 points10 points  (1 child)

You probably shouldn't be here. The fact misogynistic is even in your vocabulary speaks volumes. Everyone here loves women. That's the fucking problem. If people here didn't love women then there'd be no red pill to take.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (5 children)

Any books on this particular subject?

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (1 child)

You just read a great post that covers a lot of it. Time to go out into the world and put the ideas into practice. Infinitely better than any book could do for you.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Truth, thank you for calling me out. Enough of the mental masturbation!

[–]123InigoMontoya123 1 point2 points  (0 children)

There aren't any books, to my knowledge, that specifically instruct you on how to improve your frame. However, I am currently reading, "As a Man Thinketh," by James Allen. Its incredibly short and succinct, (25 pages) and serves to remind me every morning, as I read it over and over again on the toilet, that a man's thoughts are like a garden; you must cultivate the thoughts that empower you to improve (to build frame) and remove the weeds of fear and trepidation.

[–]Demonocracy_ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The obstacle is the way and Antifragile come to mind. Planning on reading the latter.