FinanceAdvice for the younger men entering the workforce. (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by Isbjornsolo

After seeing the recent shit storm after GLOs post etc and a further call from some of the ECs. I thought after being a long time lurker it would be time to throw my 2c in the pool.

For the younger guys on this Sub-Reddit who are graduating from HS, University etc. These pointers may give you a leg up when joining the more formal workforce.

N.B, The experience is from whilst working in a Multi-National European Manufacturing company. Where I was in global functions during the past 4 years. Working with a lot of different cultures, languages & nationalities.

TL:DR, Do a good job, be prepared & you might be rewarded for it.

1) You have a lot to learn.

When you start in the workforce you know next to nothing, even if you graduated from a top level University. Business/Trades are very different from the theory of the lecture theatre & classroom. However most colleagues & managers are ready and willing to help you, if you are humble, eager to listen and learn. Ask for help when you don’t know what to do. But make sure you only ask once and then again only for clarification. Take a lot of notes on the process & ways of working to help you in the future. You will forget 90% of what you’re told in on-boarding. So write it down.
When you’re unsure. Try to answer the question yourself before asking colleagues. Even if you have to do it out loud.

This will enable you to get up to speed a lot quicker than your other new colleagues and become a productive member of the team. It normally takes 4-8 months to get up to speed, make sure you’re closer to 4 months.

2) Develop a Bullshit detector, fast.

You’ll meet plenty of people in large companies who get paid for doing absolutely nothing. They push paper and attend meetings without getting anything done. Avoid these people like the plague. If anyone says they are “Busy” they are either horrendous at organising their time or lying. People with a high workload generally get stuff done and don’t need to inform people how “Busy” or “Important” they are. They also tend to use a lot of meaningless buzz works & phrases.

3) Be open to constructive criticism. Even when it sucks.

Ask for feedback on how you are performing & what others would have done differently with the same information. See & analyse how you are interacting and working with colleagues and what you can do to improve/develop improving the performance of the team you are working in.

Seek out areas in which you need development to improve them as much as possible. Do this on a 4-6 month basis with colleagues and record how you are progressing within the first 18 months. You’ll be surprised how much you’ll improve in such a short period of time without realising it. Don’t leave it just for your annual appraisal with your boss.

4) Turn up to all meetings with paper and at least 2 pens.

Focus on the meetings objectives and get it done as efficiently as possible. Don’t be distracted by email, WhatsApp etc. whilst you’re in a meeting. Leave the laptop & mobile on your desk*. *Unless you’re the one running the meeting and need it for presentations, charts etc.

The 2nd pen is in case the 1st one runs out. Always be prepared for system failure.

5) Discover & understand your strengths & weaknesses.

Solidify & pursue your strengths, minimise the amount of work that is dependent on your weaknesses. Time wise try to improve both but concentrate 70% on your strengths, 30% on your 3 weakest areas. This has worked for well for me.

Skill development doesn’t need to be relevant for the work you are currently doing or want to do in the future. However it does need to be done off the clock, by first reading/learning then applying in low risk areas within the work you’re doing.

Podcasts are perfect for commutes. I would recommend;

• Jocko Podcast • Art of Charm • The Minimalists podcast

6) Build a network of diverse colleagues.

Get to know the people in your cross functional teams by finding out about them. Don’t only hang around with only the other young employees / new hires. Older guys generally have been around the block and can save you a lot of time and effort getting information, money, contacts etc. Once you have a good relationship, if there are any 50/50 decisions on the table 9 times from 10 they will back your idea based on the trust that you have built.

• Dale Carnegies – How to win friends & influence people is a good starting point for this.

7) Produce high quality work, always.

Easier said than done. In the beginning it’s a ball ache to do the little extras, but 6-12 months in you’ve built the discipline to automatically do these extras. The devil is in the details, but the payoff for your career & reputation is massive. You’ll be first in line for mentorships, course & trainings as you’ve proved your worth without asking for anything.

This will set you apart from 80% of your colleagues within the first 2 months.

8) Give your manager & colleagues praise when things go right.

If you’re young & making mistakes (which is completely normal & anticipated) your boss will most likely be taking some shit for you & shouldn’t be telling you to begin with. If you continue to make the same mistake over and over. That’s on you and needs to be stopped ASAP.

Once the tide begins to change and projects are coming in on time, early and under budget. Make sure when telling people that it was due to their leadership & guidance. You manager should then be able to leverage a higher salary for you next time round & entrust you as their right hand man. Opening doors to more interesting projects & higher level individuals in the company.

9) Salary increases need solid objectives.

Once you have put in the work and are beginning to get a grip of the objectives in your role. Start asking your manager what you need to do to get a salary increase. Hit these objectives and then ask for the salary increase. If you’re not given this without a valid explanation begin to look for a new company to work for.

It took me 9 months longer than it should to be get a salary increase which resulted in a loss of €5k in earnings. Not a great loss but still a bit annoying.

10) Live overseas.

If you get the chance to live over-seas for a small amount of time. Do it! It pushes your comfort zone very quickly. It will accelerate your personal resilience, maturity & development. If applicable learn the local language as much as you can. Try to make local friends & don’t just hang around with Ex-pats. Your experience will be richer for it.

[–]HiDefFX 116 points117 points  (6 children)

I would also add that you shouldn't let yourself be cornered by someone just because they are higher on the totem. A lot of employees will try to flex their power over newer members.

Early on, some men forget that they only have to report to their boss, not someone who just has a higher position.

[–]greatslyfer 16 points17 points  (3 children)

You did that and suffered no repurcussions?

Obviously it goes without saying that you should analyze things case by case, and that a one-fits-all answer is never a good mindset to approach, but are you sure that one can show up a person from a higher ranking?

I'm new to this whole office scenario landscape, so I just want to be informed as much as possible regarding this kind of stuff. I should probably even get a book about the office place.

[–]northsight44 5 points6 points  (0 children)

This is going to be environmentally dependent based on how "work" is distributed in your organization. You can politely acknowledge what they are saying, but let them know you're working on "work" for your primary boss and you'll see if you can fit in what their asking for after you've cleared it with primary boss.

That shows you respect their position and are willing to work hard, but respects the reality you have primary goals that conflict with their task and you need to accomplish your goals before taking on auxiliary "work". Work is in quotations because it takes a lot of different forms at different organizations.

[–]HiDefFX 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Within reason of course, even though you don't report or take in extra work from them, you don't want to tell higher ups to fuck off.

Like you said, its case by case, but a good way to understand is to read what your employee contract says in terms of who you are reporting to. A lot of companies also have an org chart, which visually tells you which branch you are working, and under who you are working for.

[–]FlexGunship 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Well, unless you're in a matrix managed organization. You may regularly report to several different projects and take no actual direction from your boss.

Be mindful of your role in the company.

[–]Senior Endorsed ContributorVasiliyZaitzev 47 points48 points  (4 children)

Persons interested in this topic will likely find my CorporateLand series, which can be found on the askTRP sidebar, of interest.

Also, I was interviewed on a TRP Podcast, which included "Corporateland" topics.

[–]monkey_feces points points [recovered]

The section "CorporateLand: Working With Working Women In The Modern Corporate Environment" should include a reference to the book https://www.amazon.ca/Sex-Office-Partition-Dividing-Workplace/dp/1493007947

It is a must read if you are a manager and have female underlings or if you are new and seek to build a network.

The biggest lesson is: male senior management make it a habit to avoid women to prevent sexual harassment, rumors, bad optics etc.

This prevents women from building relationships with influential/powerful men and limits their access to higher positions (aka glass ceiling).

It is walking the line between border line discrimination and survival in the workplace. Think the recent "scandal" about Mike Pence refusing to eat 1 on 1 with a woman, or women not allowed in the office with after hours with senators or drive in the same car as them etc.

[–]Hjalmbere 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I never fish off the company pier, but as a Scandinavian I would guess distancing oneself from women the way you suggest only applies to highly litigious societies.

[–]kishin24 6 points7 points  (1 child)

Just want to thank you, as I have tried to follow your guide, and even occasionally go back to it, and it has helped me greatly.

[–]Senior Endorsed ContributorVasiliyZaitzev 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Thx. I publish to help younger guys. Glad it's working for you.

[–]2Overkillengine 82 points83 points  (5 children)

13) Do your pussy hunting outside the workplace. Putting your income and reputation in the hands of someone with scads of motivation to throw you under the bus is a stupid thing to do. Yes, the office thot is hot. There are plenty more elsewhere too without the added risks involved.

14) They are your co-workers, not your friends. Similar to the above point. Being genial is good. Trusting coworkers to not stab you in the back is bad.

[–]monkey_feces points points [recovered]

this mainly applies if you have a career. not a job

if you work at McDonald's, flirt and fuck the cashier all you want. what's gonna happen? start working at Burger King?

[–]bluedrygrass 1 point2 points  (1 child)

If you want to change job, why not just change it?

[–]CopybookHeadings 26 points27 points  (3 children)

Branching off from OP's 7th point: Make yourself indispensable.

But the corollary here is: Remember that no one is truly indispensable, and plan accordingly.

[–]beam_me_up2017 points points [recovered]

Also, if you're too good at your job, you're less likely to be promoted. The Peter Principle applies.

[–]shigydigy 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Isn't that actually the opposite of what the Peter Principle says? I thought it meant that if you're good at your job, you will get promoted, so much so that eventually you'll be at a point where you're not so good at it anymore

[–]SilverGryphon 19 points20 points  (1 child)

Very well written article and I agree with all the points, especially point number 9. I still recall the words told by one of my university professors some 11 years ago: "Don't complain that you are underpaid, just find a new job"

In my previous job I undertook projects that led to yearly cost savings which where almost three times my salary. I asked for a decent raise and all I was given is excuses and more work. So I start looking for a new job, finally I found one which offered more than I had asked for at my previous job. Go figure.

[–]askmrcia 8 points9 points  (0 children)

To add to your point, your absolutely right. I was working some system analyst role and I knew I was underpaid. But me still being young and at entry level, it didn't bother me as much because I just wanted to learn and gain some experience because it was hell getting that job in the first place.

Like you, I too was taking on projects outside my pay grade because our cheap ass company refused to either hire more people or just pay others more.

After a little over a year, I've left the company and have been getting contacted by all sorts of recruiters that offered similar roles that paid more. Eventually found a job that doubled the salary and gave me more room to grow.

[–][deleted] 17 points18 points  (2 children)

Don't underestimate how good you can get in few years even if you suck at beginning.

[–]InstigatingDrunk 6 points7 points  (1 child)

This. I was pretty retarded when I first started as a temp at a tech company.. I'm a lot more aware of hierarchy and how respect is distributed. Looking back.. even in the past 6 months I was coming up with so many excuses for why I was never getting promoted. consequently wallowing in depression due to my perceived failures. People would console me and tell me to just "be happy" and accept where I am.. no fucking way. I see people at this company making 2, 3 times my pay at the same age. I will persist and be where I want to be.

[–]_TheRP 13 points14 points  (0 children)

This is a really good post, and I agree with pretty much everything in it.

However, I'd like to offer further advice to everyone reading, and to OP.

The corporate world is dominated by B and C players. Your average to slightly above average members of the workforce run most major corporations in the world. That's the management tier. Below that, most of the workforce in these companies is made up of D players - the hanger-ons that do almost nothing beyond punch a clock and fuck around on Reddit most of the day.

Eventually, any clever person will begin to climb the ladder at a large company rapidly. If you're as good at what you do as most people think they are (a small percentage really are) then it won't take long before you are a combination of bored, disenchanted, and disgusted with the politics and general slobbery in most large organizations.

I would recommend to anyone reading this to figure out how to take the skills they have and use them to create wealth for themselves. Learn, plan, and eventually take a risk. Start your own company, become a consultant, whatever. Stop making money for the shareholders.

[–]beam_me_up2017 points points [recovered]

  1. Develop a Bullshit detector, fast.

You’ll meet plenty of people in large companies who get paid for doing absolutely nothing. They push paper and attend meetings without getting anything done. Avoid these people like the plague. If anyone says they are “Busy” they are either horrendous at organising their time or lying. People with a high workload generally get stuff done and don’t need to inform people how “Busy” or “Important” they are. They also tend to use a lot of meaningless buzz works & phrases.

Not so sure about this. Many of those people have simply learned to play the game. Work isn't just about getting tasks done, it's about being seen to get things done. Perception counts for a lot. A perpetually busy or rushed person will be perceived as being a hard worker... even if they are just a speedwalker or crappy at managing their Outlook calendar.

A great way to avoid having extra work dumped on you is to look overloaded. Getting extra work means the employer is getting more from the employee for the same price... so it would seem to be in the employee's interest to maintain the workload at a point of both comfort and reasonable job security.

[–]enfier points points [recovered]

Providing value on it's own will not be a shortcut to success. As demonstrated by all those people above you on the totem pole that flap their gums in meetings all day, in large organizations productivity is often rewarded less than visibility. Those empty suits aren't stupid, they have just correctly identified where to apply the most effective work.

Combining the two - productivity and visibility is really the fast track. Even if you don't like "playing politics" you should be keeping track of work actually done, the end results and then making sure that those above you on the totem pole are aware of it.

It also may make some sense to hitch yourself to a manager that's rocketing up the ladder. He needs demonstrated results, you need visibility and together you can rise through the ranks faster than if you went solo. Every promotion he gets will necessitate him promoting you as well to keep things moving along.

[–]Isbjornsolo[S] 2 points3 points  (8 children)

Work maybe about seeming to get things done,. But if you're new into the workforce you're most likely doing the grunt work which is very binary with regards to completion.

Obviously the higher up you go there more grey areas there are. However I would ask, do you really want to work for a company where the sort of environment is allowed to become normal or accepted? I personally would prefer to work for a company where people are held accountable & rewarded for their results. It's idealistic, I know.

But if you want that at your work, go for it. There are plenty of people to join.

[–]3trplurker 8 points9 points  (5 children)

However I would ask, do you really want to work for a company where the sort of environment is allowed to become normal or accepted?

That is every single company in the world, period. Even if you start your own business, in a decade or two, when it's large enough to actually have a bureaucracy, there will be people doing this. Those individuals are the ones who will be promoted to executive positions far faster then the person hustling to get things done. It's in the companies interest to keep the go-getters continuing to go and get while promoting the system gamers to executive positions where they can play the game for the companies profit. Those who are neither system gamers nor hyper-competent workers will be promoted into middle management positions. Read "The Gervais Principle" for an understanding on this.

[–]Johnnyvile 4 points5 points  (1 child)

This is true. Employee A works pretty hard and gets a lot done but Employee B seems to work really hard and 3 times the work done. Employee A and Employee B have same position and same salary. Promotion comes up so who do you pick? Employee A because moving Employee B would be a loss in production/results value and you may need to hire/promote 2 new employees to get done what Employee B does.

I forgot the saying but something like "Be great at your job but don't be irreplaceable. If you can't be replaced you won't be promoted".

[–]ryhend88 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Just because you promote someone into a management position doesn't mean they wont still be getting work done.

I would never promote employee A before employee B.

Employee Bs ability to preform 3x the amount of work of employee A means they have experienced 3 times as many variables, business issues, and interactions with different business units. This vast experience will provide employee B with more reference points for which to make better business decisions.

And I'd expect employee B to continue working 3x as hard as employee A. Which is great because I can put their great work ethic towards more difficult problems.

Then I'd hire a replacement for employee B and put them up to compete with employee A to see if maybe I should let employee A go.

[–]Isbjornsolo[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I'll check it out. Cheers.

In my experience those that get things done, are more likely to reach senior positions. Where as the ones who try and game the system end up stuck in middle management and once they arrive they remain. As it's a comfortable life with easy money and low stress. However it's a solid strategy, if thats what you want.

[–]3trplurker 1 point2 points  (0 children)

In my experience those that get things done, are more likely to reach senior positions.

If they are "getting things done" then they aren't spending time greasing the right wheels and making the right connections. They are too busy making someone else money and giving away their time and effort for a fraction of it's value. They stay in the same position pumping out product after product producing money for the company. It would simply be too expensive to replace them and their focus on production has indicated that they aren't going to be particularly good at senior level management anyway.

Now that guy who gets just enough done not to be fired, and then spends the rest of their time doing stuff that enhances their position, socializing with the right people, greasing the right skids, and demonstrates their desire to not do mundane tasks and instead wants big picture thinking, that is the guy that gets promoted above his boss.

Big thing to remember is direct supervisors will not promote good workers, they want those "good workers" to stay right where they are doing "good work". They won't promote anyone unless absolutely forced and only promoted the mediocre people who won't be a future threat to them. Real promotions come from above middle management, from the guys who's job revolved around being Machiavellian and are always on the lookout for self-interested resource and morally dubious individuals to assist them.

[–]beam_me_up2017 points points [recovered]

However I would ask, do you really want to work for a company where the sort of environment is allowed to become normal or accepted?

Personally? I want the most money for the least time input. I'm not as concerned with the effort I have to put in. If anything, crazy busy makes the days pass quickly. I will work like a beast to have a guaranteed maximum of 40 hours. I don't take smoke breaks, I lunch at my desk without complaint (saves $$$), and I'm not a Facebooker.

As far as how other people get by... I liken it to being focused on others' behavior when I'm at the gym. I might be aware that someone is putting up awesome or pathetic numbers, but I'm too focused on my own existence to care what they do.

[–]Isbjornsolo[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

fair enough. If i'm there for 40 hours though i would be working on a side project to generate income. Or learning some skill on the job. A colleague of mine taught himself how to code whilst optimising internal processes. He may or may not use the skill, but it will probably come in handy at some point.

[–]kishin24 9 points10 points  (1 child)

Great post. You're especially spot on with 7 and 8. The bosses are doing their best. Your job is to make them look good. If you think all the formalities are dumb, and constantly "forget"" to do them, you will not be seen as a team player, and you will struggle. Your manager has implemented these "extras" for a reason. Maybe you just dont have the high level understanding of business operations that they do yet.

Cannot emphasize enough how important it is to be seen as a team player. Once your boss can count on you, he WILL put his hands in the fire for you when you need him to.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Can confirm this up and down. And when your boss moves up, guess who he taps for his old position?

[–]Endorsed ContributorThotwrecker 5 points6 points  (0 children)

This is good general advice for most recent grads.

I'd add one thing - actually be interested in learning the politics and understanding the organization / bureaucracy. It's interesting, I don't care how badass you may seem to yourself when you and your engineer friends bitch about politics and the PMs and SVPs who know jack shit about the actual product.

You have to genuinely want to become organizationally literate. I mean, that is unless you have some grand skill that you can convert to $$$ by working alone. A lot of guys think because they are smart they are untouchable, like because of the market now as a software engineer you don't have to care about actually being good in meetings and making connections and schmoozing.

It's true, but then you find yourself plateau'd because you are no different than the other guys. You're not super smart so you're not really going to keep getting rocketed up the chain because you're owning a system that creates the company 100+m annually - you're at best going to trade in for a 15% raise at a better company where you'll be blocked there.

Try to learn how the game is played, try to play ball with the sharks. Understand why people less smart than you make 2x your salary to do what seems like jack shit - the truth is, it isn't jack shit, it's them having the knowledge of people and manipulation to be rewarded with responsibility over other people. Talk to everyone, understand other disciplines frustrations. Try to understand why certain fires were made last year, and try to understand who was in consideration but not chosen for a promotion. What set the person apart? Who actually makes decisions?

Do you get punished for more ownership and taking on more responsibility (everyone turns to you to point fingers and heap blame over minor failures while your big wins are taken for granted?) Or do you get rewarded? A lot of redditors will try to tell you it's B and you should always do X and Y, but that shows their inexperience. Things work differently at different companies - and during your time there, your goal is to understand that companies laws. Some (most) will be applicable to other businesses, but many will not.

Learn the corporate culture, learn who influences it, and who detracts from it. Learn how to be perceived as a leader / influencer within that culture while not necessarily someone who is trying to change that culture.

This is game. Raw skills are stats. Stats do get you far (if they are top tier, aka you're ripped handsome rich, you'll still get laid plenty. If you're smart, in a good market to be in, and had a good advantage in life through doing a good major at a good school, you'll still have a pretty easy ride into upper-middle income) but I would NEVER, EVER count on stats. Never count on your wealth alone to get laid, never count on being a pretty gym boy to get girls (looks will fade for us too). Game is really the key, and I see SO, SO many talented smart kids who just have this shitty millennial idealistic attitude about not wanting to learn the game. They just want to stay where they are at and bitch about the corporatey this and the red tape that, and how they think things should be. But they do not try to actually strategize and come up with a plan to win over key movers in the company, become a key mover themself, and be in a position to not be a victim to that bureaucracy.

When you start, you have little power, you are under the hoof of this uncaring "government" of influential people within the company which may be an old boys club or it may even be a machine-like faceless system of red tape and rules. Many men can abide being under that boot because the boot only stomps down once in a while on other people. But alphas need the power to control their own fate, they can't abide being the victim of "well, corporate downsizing was inevitable" or "it was a rough acquisition and only key employees were retained and given stock." So they infiltrate the office politics, figuring that if they fail, so be it, they'll have another job lined up with a pay bump where they can try again.

[–]UnreasoningLogician 7 points8 points  (3 children)

Also, on the money side: Don't blow your entire paycheck every month! At the very least, you should:

  • Fill your 401(k) up to the match (the company budgeted for it when they hired you, so don't leave that money on the table)
  • Save a good chunk of your take-home pay. If I spent $15 on lunch every day, the habit would cost me about a day's pay each month. It's worth going to the odd team lunch to be social, but make a damn sandwich now and then, and invest the savings (or at least spend them on something that's going to last longer than a trip to Subway). The more you invest now, the more your investments can compound.

This flowchart is a /r/personalfinance classic, with good reason: https://i.imgur.com/CcEVQAV.png

[–]Radioactivebuny 1 point2 points  (2 children)

spend them on something that's going to last longer than a trip to Subway

Guns and ammunition count, right?

[–]UnreasoningLogician 0 points1 point  (1 child)

If that's your thing, sure. I ain't gonna judge. What's going to give you more enjoyment: that sandwich you'll forget in an hour or an afternoon at the range?

[–]Radioactivebuny 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Or how it appreciates in value pretty much guaranteed. Especially my WWII stuff.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Another thing is to take initiative. If there is an opportunity to take on a project or additional responsibility, say YES. That shows that you are eager to learn, want to be a team player and help out in any way possible.

Even if you don't knock it out of the park right away, it shows that you are someone who is hungry to succeed.

[–]J2501 2 points3 points  (0 children)

In the beginning, as you are learning the ropes, and building skills, it's OK to get paid in experience, but depending on how fast you learn, this will quickly turn into you being exploited.

Know what you are worth on the open market, and don't take less than that. If you are better than average at your job, demand more. Always keep abreast of all attainable opportunities on your radar. Interview all the time. Often, you will have to change companies to get the raise you deserve. Don't sell yourself short. If you can do more than what your current role requires, find a place that will pay you more to fully utilize your whole skillset.

Most employers will pay you as little as they have to, and even if you do $100k worth of work, they will be content to rip you off by paying half of that.

[–]vorverk 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Good post. Also, work on social skills. They matter as much, sometimes more then the expertise in the field.

[–]Mescuzzi 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I'd like to suggest all of you new guys to read How to Be a Star at Work which has helped me in my career.

[–]No_Soup_Fo_You[🍰] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

  1. Don't get distracted/involved with female coworkers. Just don't. Nobody listens to this advice though. It's probably a miracle I have been able to do it over the last 14 years but I have seen people derailed or destroyed so many times because of this so I have plenty of reminders. Leave the Disney stories about office romance or hot encounters at home.

[–]THETRUMPTRUTHTRAIN 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Quit job now go to work for yourself

[–]ryhend88 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The great thing about teaming up with people is leveraging other people's skill sets.

I'm really great at finance. But I don't know much about computer programming. There are people who are better salesmen, marketers, and recruiters too.

If we team up, I just focus on finance, the software engineer focuses on programming, the sales and marekting guys focus on selling, and the recruiter focuses on finding more of the right people, we're going to accomplish a hell of a lot more than you, whose going to juggle all of those different skill-sets and be mediocre at all of them.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Working for someone else is for losers. Start your own company.

[–]Asplenium points points [recovered]

  1. don't get a shitty desk-job.

most people that currently hold blue-collar jobs will be retiring within a decade and there's no one to replace them, the generation that's supposed to follow in their lead is filled with desk-bound skinnyfat manlets.

manual labour is a free-workout.

[–]Isbjornsolo[S] 25 points26 points  (8 children)

Very true, I was at a conference in Germany recently for craftsmen & only 3 of the people attending were under 30. Over half were 50+ and looking for someone to run their business, in the next few years.

If you go into a trade and are a quality craftsmen with a bit of business/management knowledge it's rich pickings.

[–]Asplenium points points [recovered]

there's so much work and such a huge shortage of capable people to do it that I'm getting calls from the other side of the country.

my inbox is flooded everyday.

[–]futianze 2 points3 points  (0 children)

What do you do if you don't mind me asking?

[–]verify_account points points [recovered]

I'd like to point out that running a business is "a shitty desk job".

Skill crafts are great, but paper work must be done too. There is nothing wrong in doing either.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Programming is a shitty desk job too.

[–]Junted points points [recovered]

Would you agree this statement pertains to a college kid going to work for structural concrete construction firm?

[–]Isbjornsolo[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Honestly i don't know. I would speak with the guys in your industry who have been doing it for 15+ years and ask them how they see the future of your industry. But if you chosen Engineering, you'll be a good hire for most companies even if it's outside engineering. As you'll have practical skills alongside critical thinking.

[–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (1 child)

Except many of those blue collar jobs are also very dangerous for your health, both in short and long term. In Europe for example there is and there will be a huge demand for welders, but nobody tells you that you'll most likely end up working in Siberia at -20 degrees Celsius. I prefer working with my keyboard in my air conditioned room and then going to the gym whenever I feel like working out.

[–]HeyN0ngMan 20 points21 points  (5 children)

Sure manual labor is a "free-workout" but i'm making a lot more money then my friends who are doing manual labor and it funds my gym membership and clean eating pretty easily.

[–]AladdinHussein 15 points16 points  (3 children)

Yeah, making a low wage with no benefits for a job that will leave you physically worn out doesn't seem worth it when you could make more money and live a better overall lifestyle with a desk job.

[–]HeyN0ngMan 13 points14 points  (0 children)

but think about the gains you'll get while making money blah blah some fake alpha bullshit

[–]Asplenium points points [recovered]

a job that will leave you physically worn out

it won't if you take care of yourself.

most issues created by manual labour are a result of a poor diet and lack of rest.

[–]tallwheel 2 points3 points  (0 children)

...and the potential injuries in some manual labor jobs.

[–]Thresher_XG 13 points14 points  (3 children)

Agree! I am out at desk at 26 and it is hell. I'm moving to a blue collar job after I get my cert. More money and better people generally in my Opinion. Also offices are filled with women. Most are fat and old.

So if you like going to baby showers and listen to HR people then work in an office

[–]Asplenium points points [recovered]

Also offices are filled with women. Most are fat and old.

it's funny because every time you hear about there not being enough 'diversity' in the workforce it's about shitty desk jobs and social work.

my field is 99,99% male, never heard a single word about a lack of 'diversity' though.

[–]Thresher_XG 13 points14 points  (0 children)

I know right hahaha. Women just want equality and diversity in office jobs. How about equality in the trades and engineering and tech. Oh wait those are hard jobs and require a lot of work

[–]GrabHerByThePEPE 5 points6 points  (2 children)

Nobody to replace them? What about AI? It's gonna replace all of us.

[–]Asplenium points points [recovered]

AI can't replace craftsmanship, you can pretty much always tell whether a product is authentic or not.

atleast, for now.

[–]GrabHerByThePEPE 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Most things have already been replaced, at least by humans operating machines. Even music. Good music.

[–]ls737100 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Hate to be the bearer of bad news but in the next 10 or so years, a lot if this blue collar work is just going to be done by robots. I wouldn't consider this safe at all. Learn tech, at least be the part that's doing the automation not getting automated.

[–]NietzscheExplosion -2 points-1 points  (1 child)

Vote waaaay the fuck UP. OP sounds like a slave manual(admittedly a good slave manual).

[–]Isbjornsolo[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It was written more to get the skills that others at this age lack or need some guidance on how to improve & progress. Once you have the basics you can start to play the game and seek improved or delocalised employment.

[–]Crailberry 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Boy I'll tell you what, this is some invaluable information. During college I worked for smaller RnD company. Everyone was more like family. Then when I graduated I got a higher paying job at a big corporation. The amount of people I had to deal with, all sorts of different mentalities and behaviors from all sorts of different people was overwhelming. Some people are dicks and will literally yell at you for the craziest shit, some are nice to you but will stab you in the back the first chance they get, some will stab you in the back unless you get on their good side first, some don't do absolutely ANYTHING for the company but get paid a lot of money, some are good people.....talk about an overload.

[–]Frenetic_Zetetic 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This is why I started a business. More money in the same time (40 hrs a week), less bullshit because you're in control.


[–]TheLegionnaire00 4 points5 points  (2 children)

I'm finishing my first year of college and I already have a job as a software engineer. My advice would be to avoid big corporations because the collective in this corporations is almost always toxic.

The best thing you can do is to get a job in a small business(like me, I work at a small software company, but my salary is bigger than in some corporations for the exact same job), gather some money for some time then start your own company(I plan to start my own software company in August, maybe September, this year).

Your goal should be to become your own boss as quickly as possible.

[–]drpavaleer 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Glad to see someone with a similar mindset. I am still an undergraduate but have done several internships. Fricken hated the big companies and now applying exclusively for startups/small firms. Planning on getting an internship for this summer, convert it to graduate job, copy (and improve) their business model and make my own business. What type of software engineering do you do? I am into Machine Learning.

[–]TheLegionnaire00 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I work at a Cyber Security firm. You should find something similar. At the moment it is the Most well payed field, and in the future it will get even better.

[–]therhymerr 2 points3 points  (2 children)

So I joined a job for a big ad agency at the start of last year. Had to put up with a lot of stuff (getting drinks for people) BUT I knew it'd be worth it... One year later, (humble brag, & 50 lbs later) my boss quits and I get relocated with a 25% increase in salary. At 24 I just lead my first briefing remotely and killed it. It's stressful dealing with things but if you are Red Pill enough then good things WILL happen for you...

[–]Isbjornsolo[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Congrats. Keep up the good work.

[–]sadbasturd99 1 point2 points  (0 children)

10) watch Locked up Abroad

[–]tuyguy 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Jocko podcast is pretty amazing. I listen to it most mornings.

[–]Xoramung 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The 2nd pen is in case the 1st one runs out. Always be prepared for system failure.

This alone is worth its weight in digital gold.

[–]tallwheel 1 point2 points  (2 children)

I don't know. I'm getting a lot of "work hard and succeed" vibe from your post. This is not necessarily good advice, especially nowadays. Those who make the really good money are not necessarily those who output the best work and work hard every day. I think it is more important to learn how to play the game, have social intelligence, and try to create a good perception of yourself among your coworkers.

You also need to be able to tell when your job/company is bullshit. And if it is, figure out if you want to ride it out (potentially doing very little) and keep collecting your paycheck (if it is a good one) or jump ship.

[–]Isbjornsolo[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

This is specifically aimed at new mens in the workforce, as i'm only a few years ahead of them. From my experience it is more a case of learn as much, as fast as possible. Which could be construed as the classic "Work Hard..." although i've yet to meet a 23 year who is politically savy enough to get by on politics alone.

I completely agree with your final point. Too many people stay in a company because it's ok money.

[–]tallwheel 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I can understand it maybe from the perspective that there are a lot of lazy young fucks out of college entering the workforce nowadays. They've all been through the education system that taught them they are special snowflakes, coddled them, and many of them have never had to do much real work in their lives up until now.

We have young guys like this starting at my company every now and then. Most of the time they are way overconfident in themselves and suck at their job. They need to at least learn to be humble, listen to their supervisors, go through the inevitable period of sucking at their jobs until they don't suck so much, and then start building confidence after they have at least earned some of that confidence.

[–]majorbollocks 1 point2 points  (0 children)

11) Take credit for your job well done. In fact, DEMAND it. Ask for a cert that states your accomplishment eg "Hit 180% of sales target" or "managed to reduce production lead time by 20%".

I see too many people who work hard but don't know how to play the game and all the credit goes to some narcissist higher up or colleague who can manipulate like a champ.

And emails. Put everything in emails.

12) Assuming you did 11) and you should, ask for a more responsibility, and ask for a raise every time you ace the extra responsibility.

If you do take on more work and they don't want to give you extra cash, guess what? You have all those certs from 11) as proof you're a real MVP and go to some other company who would love to snatch you from your current one.

Corporate life is cut throat politicking. That's the red pill. To survive, learn how to cut throats.

[–]iThinkThisIsAGoodOne 1 point2 points  (0 children)

My advice? Avoid self deprecating humor when you're new. Just shut the fuck up, and listen. You know nothing. Say you want to learn and just fucking learn

[–]1z1z2x2x3c3c4v4v 5 points6 points  (4 children)

12) Work-Hard, Play-Hard.

I work like a dog when I work, I come in early, and put in 110%. Almost nobody gets more done then me.

When I am done with work, I am done. I don't take calls after hours, I don't stay late on a regular basis (but I will to accomplish a short term goal). When I am out of work, I do things I want to do, to relax me, and to just have fun. Its me time... and its always a blast.

[–]Arnoux 18 points19 points  (3 children)

Nobody likes the people who gives 110℅ except maybe their line managers. These people just raises the bar too much and managers believe everyone else is a lazy motherfucker.

If you give 90℅ you can be still be ahead as other people usually give around 80℅ or less.

[–][deleted] 15 points16 points  (1 child)

Never give 110%. This is bad advice.

Give ~80% but get credit for 110%.

Nobody promotes the best grunt - he's already perfect for what he does.

Those that get promotions are either charismatic and socially adept or are ambitious.

[–]Arnoux 4 points5 points  (0 children)

This. I got promoted to a senior position at age 24, which is not bad according to the standard here. I was lazy as fuck as analyst, but somehow got really good recognition. I was extremely ambitious for promotion and some people liked me enough to trust me.

Currently I am struggling as a senior but, soon it will get better.

My advice for success is be ambiguous and never promise anything :D

[–]1z1z2x2x3c3c4v4v 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Nobody likes the people who gives 110℅

You are correct. I was told, more then once in my career, to slow down, that I am making everyone else look bad, or I am taking away all their overtime. The whining was endless in the beginning of my career...

Today... I am making $125/hr for short term gigs (IT Consulting)... so I don't care what everyone else thinks or thought back then.

I didn't give no fucks back then, and today, I laugh myself to the bank. (100% Red Pill Attitude)

Now...I didn't work like that for no reason... I always had a goal or a plan. Most of the time, the plan to was to get ahead, get promotions, get raises, get bonuses, get people out of my way... or just for the experience. I always had a reason.

But I never just blindly worked 12 hour days because some chump of a manager told me to...

If you give 90℅ you can be still be ahead as other people usually give around 80℅ or less.

But I do agree with your sentiment. Work harder then the Average Joe, and you'll still get ahead.

[–]CandyPharts points points [recovered]

2 tenths of a cent? You cheap bastard.

[–]Isbjornsolo[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I work in procurement, thats a lot of money to be throwing around.

[–]TakeaL0ss 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I've liked this btw I have to complain one bullshittery you wrote. So my father has a society , thx to that I've met a lot of good engineers and what I've learned is that what you learn from a good university by studying hard, it will help you a lot on your future work and also it will put you above most of the others who graduated in shitty ones. (Mind that I've said a good university, one that actually teaches you useful and valuable stuff like engineering)

[–]Isbjornsolo[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

In point 6, i've mentioned linking up with the older guys in your firm/area. So completely agree. Same with the get a high quality degree from a good institution.

[–]2dfx 0 points1 point  (0 children)

4, 6, and 8 have less importance in unionized environments.

[–]keytoimmortality 0 points1 point  (2 children)


I am starting a graduate role in corporate finance next year and am wondering how to handle my social media. I use it to game, uploading photos of me and my friends doing fun shit/ going to music festivals but obviously these events have a connotation for drug use..

Do I just refuse to add anyone on social media from the workplace, to avoid any reputation spreading or being a 'party guy'?

How have you handled a similar situation?

[–]Isbjornsolo[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I use social media to show the cool shit i'm doing. I use it more for me than to impress people.

So long as you're not showing company information you should be good. But best to check your companies social media policy. As some have some pretty strict guidelines. I would strongly advise not to put anything online that is potentially incriminating.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Most companies dont bother asking for your friend them on your social media. If you want just make an alt facebook account with pictures of you hugging your granny and taking pictures of flowers and making awesome posts on how you like to take orders.

Or if they want access or want to be FB friends so they can snoop around you can say no. Why work for a company that wants to be involved in your personal life. Fuck them.

[–]sc1690 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Also, don't procrastinate. It makes you look indecisive.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Such bullshit. Get a mentor, informally, to give you criticism (not advice) each week. talk in every meeting, even if you play the repeat game (did I just hear... - then repeat someone's words) tell your manager and manager's manager you are 'UP OR OUT IN THREE YEARS' - no excuses.

[–]trpgeorge 0 points1 point  (1 child)

This is the content we need. this is truly self improvement. Thanks OP!

[–]Isbjornsolo[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You're welcome. Take from it what is useful for you and discard what isn't.

[–]Scandinavianredpill 0 points1 point  (0 children)

How to be a good beta boy in the cogwheel. Another approach is to identify a great industry, work in that industry and soak as much knowledge as you can and then go out and do your own thing within that industry. Living your entire life with a suit on and producing is not a good life (this is aimed at finance, accountants and laywers).

[–]PranksterLad 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Can you link me to Jocko Podcast please? Can't find it, it on spotify at all?

[–]Isbjornsolo[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

YouTube or iTunes are your best bet.

[–]PranksterLad 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Where on Itunes do I find it i just searched...

[–]Isbjornsolo[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

under podcasts. its number one in the business section.

[–]YiloMiannopoulos 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Advice for the younger men entering the white collar workforce

[–]Isbjornsolo[S] 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Some of the points are specific for the corporate world yes. However having worked in some very blue collar jobs during University. from my exp they are easily transferable. The blue collar environment does have a huge advantage of less BS.

[–]YiloMiannopoulos 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That huge advantage can be attributed to a lack of women at blue collar jobs. I've only ever worked with about 4 women and two of them were absolute cunts. One wrote me up for whatever reason, can't remember why now.

[–]AlphaWhiteBoy -1 points0 points  (0 children)

throwing in your two tenths of a cent?! yeah ill get my advice elsewhere k thx