There was a MGTOW-sub discussion not too long ago that involved the gym atmosphere that reflects the emerging mindset in TRP as of late...
"You know (this may come off rant-y), but I really blame TRP for making gyms a miserable experience for those who lift for themselves. I believe TRP is responsible for this new wave of guys hitting the gym with the sole purpose of scoring pussy . Several years ago before TRP blew up, the gym used to be a place of practically meditation for me. Now there's nothing but insecure, hyper-competitive fucks who shoulder-check each other left and right and going to the gym has now become one of my least favorite parts of the day."
- : My priorities on women have shifted recently, but don't kid yourselves, do you know where you're at now? Did you bother reading the sidebar?
"Discussion of sexual strategy in a culture increasingly lacking a positive identity for men. "
It can't be anymore clear than that. You just rationalize it to just "be a man", "muh self-improvement" and other bullshit you do to conserve your egos, to hide the fact that you crave the vagina. Self-improvement and masculinity are important tangential subjects at best. They are merely coincidental pre-requisites to increasing your chances with women, the entire purpose of this sub. Any different phase you enter into or when a value-shift for you occurs is irrelevant.
- : So 'hyper-competitive' is insecure? The masculinity you're witnessing is just intimidating you because you're not in the group. You're weak and you subconsciously know it, that is why you try to re-frame it as insecure.
I got down voted over at TRP big time for stating the obvious: Most guys that go to the gym a lot nowadays just aren't great people. They form these little cliches where the biggest guys (that are all likely on juice) hang with each other but you never see them talk to a guy just starting out or trying to help or seeming receptive.
And they pull shit like talking near equipment for long periods with their shit draped over it. If you go near it they'll say "I got one more set" and then keep gum flapping. It's disrespectful as fuck. And guys that do shit tons of 'roids and have been lifting for years and years rely upon being intimidating to smaller guys to flaunt this.
Then there are all the guys that literally prance around with some exaggerated big guy cool swagger. It looks fucking ridiculous for a 30 y/o man to be so exaggerated in his walk and so seemingly conscious of it. It's like wearing a shirt that says "please notice I'm bad ass". Ironically, it is kind of a feminine mindset with the prancing and even special gym clothes to show off certain body parts.
I hardly want to talk to anyone at the gym. I know a few cool guys there.
: You do realize that's what 'alphas' do right? Or any guys at the top of a field for that matter. Not only are their less people to relate to, human males naturally form little 'tribes' and exclude others. The lessers then demand they get included or re-frame it as 'asshole' and 'jerk'.
[2 part 1]: When they dismiss you and say they "have one more set", it's because they haven't witnessed competence in you or you don't look like a guy that can keep up. I'll get to this more later.
[2 part 2]: Who gives a shit that they're using roids? What does that have to do with you? Life only cares that you get there, not which path you take. And you feel intimidated? That's because his mere presence outshines you and your subconscious notices it. Just like losers in a crab bucket.
: Walking around with "cool swagger" bothers you? That's because you've got no gainz or stature worth pride in. Yeah, once you get to a certain level, you feels nice to show off a bit sometimes, but more importantly, you subconsciously walk with 'swag' because your competence and achievement gives your subconscious the permission it seeks to flaunt a bit. You've got nothing worth flaunting so you'd rather re-frame their actions as insecure.
: Wearing clothes that show off physique is 'feminine'? Again, you don't have gainz.
"Oddly enough, the issue is the opposite at times, in my opinion: people trying to avoid eye contact and try hard not to acknowlege others around them. Especially women."
: You know why the big guys don't stare at each other or other men? Because the only reasons males of any species stare are for predation, because they want to eat you, or start shit. It's best to just mind your own business and not give off a negative impression. It's instinctive, not logical. Our society is made up of a bunch of strangers made peaceful by the threat of force by other men with guns. You feel like an outsider to most people because you are. You did not evolve to do this and can feel uncomfortable especially when you know you can't keep up. Eye contact with outsiders is thus uncomfortable, especially women.
Women don't make eye contact because their objective at the gym isn't to ogle, but to be ogled by other men for validation.
"I just see them looking at themselves in the mirror more than would be normal for a non-female."
These guys are actually constructing something and want to keep constant track of their progress. And it helps avoid the eye contact with others mentioned earlier because there's a big mirror in the room. You don't have gainz worth looking at.
"In a real world without artificial social restraint to protect the weak, those guys would be dispatched in short order."
- No. Any time human beings have an abundance of food, specifically agriculture, a dominance hierarchy is formed (i.e. cheifs, warriors, and hereditary leadership). It is natural. If artificial social restraint wasn't their to protect the weak, you'd be screwed. Dispose of your weak people overthrow fantasies.
"Yep, it's all a bunch of artificial games at play. Maybe the fact that as a MGTOW I don't play along with any of them is threatening. TRP follows the law "think as you like, but behave like others", I follow the law "think as I like, do as I like"."
- : Your 'MGTOWness' intimidates a group of big gym bros... You've got to be joking. That's like a woman saying "men don't want me because they can't handle this. I'm just so independent and sure of myself. They find it intimidating." Yeah, you keep telling yourself that.
Conclusion and other shit
Men in the manosphere jerkoff to Machiavellianism & being Alpha Chads. They read the 48 Laws of Power, Art of War, the Prince and some articles on the internet and now think they're the enlightened alphas behind their keyboards, but when they encounter these type of people in person, they cry like a bitch & make up reasons for why they're not 'truly alpha' because they're not inclusive. What did u expect Mr. Armchair Alpha? Competition at the top is fierce. TRP is filled w/ 'caring leader, moralistic alpha' crap. 'Alpha' has NOTHING to do with morality or making others feel comfortable.
TRP clearly acknowledges inequality and advocates it via aspiring to rise to the top, but people still manage to conjure bullshit equality fantasies instead of becoming better themselves. "You're alpha up until you don't include me, then you're an asshole". That's a textbook summary of female thinking.
Your problem is that you've been conditioned by the blue pill to channel your aggression to academics, video games, porn, and spectator sports while having women and other dudes mediate everything to make it 'fair'. When you get together with your friends, you do it virtually or vicariously through other men. Once you actually go outside your batman MGTOW cave, you see people who don't do this, they manifest this aggression/competitiveness in the real world. You're too used to the equality, every body wins a medal, safe A/C cooled academia and office environment and became wimps and office weenies incapable of surviving outside it. Who needs strength, size, and competitiveness for a school lecture or an office cubicle? LOL!
This is a classic case of men who know they can't keep up or know they're inferior reframing a situation that makes them the 'good/noble, 'true alpha' guy. A beta male rationalization. Can these guys overdo it? Sure, but that's NOT the majority of what's going on in your brain.
You wanted to be one of these guys, this is how it is. You have to prove your worth to be included, otherwise nobody gives a fuck. If you want to jump from the crab bucket mentality, you need something that the 'top guys' value.
Wanna know how I defuse that 'one more set' thing those guys do? I can keep up. First off, you gotta walk up to them confidently, not like you're trying to be polite. They don't respond to that. Secondly, you have to keep your voice up. This shows you don't view yourself as beneath them. Thirdly, I ask "how high are you guys going?" It's a covert way of saying I think I can keep up. After I they say it, I ask if they would mind if I hop in between sets. Not all the time, but much of the time, specifically when one of them has witnessed me lift before, they allow it. Then while you're in, you help unrack the guy before you's weights or help rack the next guys to show net value. You're the outsider. They allowed you to join. That's the frame. Numbers and size win, get over it. This isn't them being an 'asshole'. It's the way it is. You can do this without coming off as weak. Get to the 2,3,4 plates for the big three and people start leaving you alone and allow you to join. Until then, don't expect much in terms of 'inclusiveness' or sharing.
I remember getting my first real job in a male-exclusive field. I came in as a comfy suburban boy who didn't even know how to cook or do laundry until I was in college. My mom did everything for me. I was coasting in comfort. Then I arrived on the job, and it was a complete shock. The frame tests and the dismissiveness were non-stop. They always twisted my words and used it against me. I felt like a 'victim'. I felt the world was acting upon me. But I soon realized after a few months, it was because I had a thin skin from too much comfort. This is how non-bitch men interact with one another when they see you wanna join their ranks or think you may have potential. Until you prove your worth, you're nothing. Until you show you can stand up for yourself, you will be a target for no other reason because they think it is funny. Once I got a few skills and was there for awhile, it started getting better.
Once upon a time, I was at an 'event' where I had my own space. A big co-ed group was nearby, but slowly, they began to drift my way, slowly encroaching in my space. It started pissing me off so I confronted one of the guys to delineate my territory. They, especially the girls, didn't take that well, but I didn't care. It was okay for a bit, but then he and the girls started encroaching in my space again, I thought about amping up the situation, but then the rest of the group started hoarding, composing of dudes my size and bigger. It became abundantly clear that, I, as the lone male, had no chance. If I start something, I would get my ass kicked by a bunch of big dudes.
While being over taken in a sense, you could feel the tension between them, and me the outsider. I finally came to my senses and decided to make a slight apology to guy for overreacting and things became cool. Not only did I eliminate the tension, but my original spot was left 'untouched' just for me and they never ventured into it outside of passing and they didn't impede me. I even had a better time than I was having alone. I learned that day that the 'lone sigma-alpha' fantasy is bullshit unless you're exceedingly bigger than everyone else. They weren't being 'jerks'. It wasn't even malicious. It's human male nature. I was fighting nature and realized how dumb that was.
However, there was frame testing and boundary testing. A lot of those big guys get handsy as a display of dominance, you gotta shake their hands off and banter back before they respect you. Can't be passive and you gotta taunt back. If you win anything a lot of them quit and leave you alone because they only joined to look like the winner.
This is what happens when men aren't given responsibility or rites of passage. They coast in their artificial comfort until they're forced to waaay too late. Reality hits them in the face and they think they're a victim. Don't expect anybody to share or include you unless you have size or value. You wanted to be an alpha chad machiavellian, WELCOME TO THE REALITY. This is how it is. This is how they treat others. The higher you go, the worse it gets. Whether or not you believe it's ideal is irrelevant. If you don't like it or can't keep up, that's fine, but stop bitching.
MANDATORY PIECE! (ancient TRP post)
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