Male identity and lifting - Don’t fall for the rat race. (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by sapien100


[–] points points

[permanently deleted]

[–]1SirKolbath 88 points89 points  (48 children)

[–] points points

[permanently deleted]

[–]Sementeries 41 points42 points  (2 children)

All women need to get laid is have a vagina.

Even the undesirables get fucked.

[–] points points

[permanently deleted]

[–]yomo86 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thank you for the sane remark. We have a lot of anger phasers here, who blow advantages of women (sex, CS, alimony) out of realistic proportions. If men are running around wallet open then a relationship would equal easy sex for women.

[–]truecrisis 31 points32 points  (4 children)

Yeah but we get the benefit of living in a man's world where we get to define the rules.

Worth it.

[–] points points

[permanently deleted]

[–]KRAWWWWW 23 points24 points  (1 child)

They vote almost entirely based on their feelings more so than any other demographic, which is one of the many reasons why Europe has such ongoing issues related to immigration. When you're a young woman with no kids to take care of and whose wellbeing you strive to preserve, you're going to completely overlook why such immigration policies are more detrimental than valuable. You can't have a decent welfare state when you're supporting hundreds of thousands of immigrants that take up so many resources who contribute little to the tax pool. When less than .5% of all working age migrants in Sweden have jobs, that's a serious issue, not to mention the problems with growing crime in some areas of Europe. They also completely ignore the fact that 60% of the immigrants coming in are "economic migrants" and not refugees fleeing war, according to UN data.

This isn't to say not to help people, because setting up a refugee camp in non-populated areas away from the areas they're fleeing can be done at significantly lower cost than housing them in one's own state.

[–]IkWhatUDidLastSummer 0 points1 point  (0 children)

why do you have to spit so much truth. i hope the radfems look away

[–]yomo86 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It is always a buyers market if your currency is something of value and scarce. 20yo girl equals a 6 figure income. No baggage equals imposing physique. It is a market place after all.

[–]metallica11 1 point2 points  (0 children)

the only way it is "easier" for men is that when we do reach good physical state, we will reap the benefits of it through our fourties, in terms of attraction.

And don't get me started on the fact that most women who will stay in great shape, throw on a tight dress will be attractive to most men. irregardless of height/race/etc. not the same for men. a ripped 5'2" guy will always struggle versus a in shape 5'2" girl.

Have you ever seen a mid 40's female fitness model? saggy, tan, wrinkly skin. youthfulness gone.

[–]2 Senior Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours 3 points4 points  (14 children)

buy an immense amount of supplements, do resistant training, condition, diet away, cut out all carbs and do keto,

Holy fuck you bought into the bullshit. I am muscular, massively so, but all natural since I got it in the military. I was dug tested all the time, so no juice to get 20+ inch arms and a 50+ inch chest. I never bought a single supplement, never did keto, I fucking worked. Haul 200lbs up three fights of steps a few hundred times a day, 12 hours a day, and push heavy shit, like 3000-10,000lbs on sticky rollers when you're not hauling the equivalent of fat chicks to the top of Wrigley Field.

Trust me, you'll get huge without supplements that make you fart. No you're not going to do it the same way I did, my point is you have to work for it. There's no shortcuts, even juicing you still have to do the work. Just do it, forget all the bullshit and lift. Lift heavy pic you want to get big.

Be aware though, it comes with a price on your joints and collective tissue.

[–]aanarchist 8 points9 points  (0 children)

do you have a broad frame or were you like 100 lbs before you started.

[–]Origami84 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Have you ever seen one of those articles about bodybuilding in the past and now, as in "before and after hormones were commercialized"?
Anyone who did does not believe anymore that you can be huge without chemicals. The human body does not work like that. The strongman of the past would just be "normal-ish" today, and they also had to pack some fat too.

[–]Dr_D1amond 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Dont know why this is getting down votes. This is the essence of the swolee bible. Lift big eat big get big.

[–] points points

[permanently deleted]

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Dude of course.

The point was you don't need supplements etc.

Good excercise and diet can work just fine.

I don't even just lift anymore. I do tons of various workouts. The strongest I ever was, was when I was 18 years old lol

[–]IkWhatUDidLastSummer 0 points1 point  (0 children)

supplements are exactly that, a supplement to a good diet.

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points  (3 children)

Eh not true. guys can just starve themselves too. Unless you are talking "fitness model" and in that case both men and women focus on the exact same things.

Straight up traditional models are expected to starve not bulk up. Unless they are an insane ectomorph they likely won't need much muscle bulk and will need more toned-ness via diet. In fact, too ripped can be bad for some brands.

Really depends on the "look" the male model needs but bulk is almost exclusively not wanted in male fashion modeling.

[–]thetotalpackage7 6 points7 points  (1 child)

thats because the homos that run male fashion want the models to look like waifish boys...since that's what they are attracted to.

[–]Quimsby 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Was a male fashion model. The man that oversaw my development wanted me to be skinny and bony. He loved getting me underwear jobs even though I was underage at the time.

[–]anonlymouse 0 points1 point  (2 children)

I mean all it takes to be a female model is control over your caloric intake for fuck sakes.

There might be a segment of them that don't require some exercise, but almost guaranteed if a girl has a nice ass, she had to work for it.

[–] points points

[permanently deleted]

[–]anonlymouse -1 points0 points  (0 children)

You're going to end up very disappointed with your own body if you try to apply the knowledge you have now to getting in shape.

Or you have pathetically low standards for women's asses.

[–]whattupwhattup -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Quit being a bitch and stop bitching

[–]2 Senior Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours 12 points13 points  (15 children)

Self esteem is s good thing, but you can't get it through platitudes and praise. Self esteem must be earned not given. Telling kids how awesome they are, just the way they are, and everyone is a winner builds entitlement and makes them unprepared for adult life. Having them win as well as lose teaches them and build self esteem our motivates them to try harder. Yes kids check out, say "fuck it, I'm not going to compete" in areas, but there is always something in which they'll compete.

You earn self esteem and confidence by achievement, by doing something, not by being told how amazing you are. Achievement is only useful when it's hard, walking is an achievement when you're 7 months old, not when you're 18. Praise without achievement is akin to being told "good job, you can roll over" when you're 20. It's hollow and has no meaning. Yay you benched 15lbs! Awesome job! Yeah fuck that. Bench 300lbs and that's an achievement because most people never will.

So yes it's important, but not the way it's being implemented.

It's not unrealistic for girls to be thin and attractive. 40 years ago fat kids were rare, fat girls were rare, fat people weren't everywhere. Go to Ukraine or any country where there's a shortage of men, the girls all look amazing compared to the girls in the US. They aren't fat because they are in competition for men, and men don't want fat chicks. Girls being thin makes life easier for them.

Boys can work to get bigger, they don't have to but muscle makes life easier. No it's not easy to get muscle, but that's because it's worth the effort. Anyone who tells you otherwise probably doesn't have any. Like the fat girls wanting to be considered hot, the wimpy guys want to think they're smarter or just as good as the man with muscle. They're not.

[–]rockmasterflex 1 point2 points  (14 children)

They aren't fat because they are in competition for men,

They're in competition for fucking food, because their country has piss poor economical structure.

Being fat means you have throw away money. Not being fat just means you actually scrape to get by as it is.

[–]Motor-boat 5 points6 points  (3 children)

I'm sorry, but in Louisiana there is a fuck ton of fat ass black people on food stamps. I know what you mean, but weight is not really an indication of wealth in the US.

[–]Winter77777 6 points7 points  (1 child)

weight is not really an indication of wealth in the US.

It's actually inversely correlated. The wealthy are much healthier because they can afford to spend more on produce and have time to cook and exercise

[–]Endorsed ContributorMetalgear222 1 point2 points  (0 children)

this is complete horseshit. fat people are largely the laziest type of people on the planet

[–]Westernhagen 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The black fatasses are throwing away money. It's just not their money. It is transferred to them from others. We have the national wealth to afford this.... for now. But at some point the gravy train will stop and those black fatasses will become poor-nation skinny.

[–]WorstMuhammadNa 3 points4 points  (8 children)

nah, some of those other countries just dont have fast food on every corner, in america the fatest pieces of shit are also the poorest, its because low quality food is calorie dense and cheap as fuck. You can spend 3 dollars at mcdonalds for 1200 calories.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (7 children)

rice and veggies are cheap in North america. i got 3 bags of vegetables and fruir for $10CAD today and it will last most of the week. Source: am poor and eat copious amounts of rice and veggies. Rice is $1 a pound. Sometimes less.

in America there are food deserts in many black areas because of crime. shoplifting, robberies, shop owners getting killed, etc, means that grocery stores frequently go out of business creating "food deserts" with only a few fast food outlets with bulletproof glass. There are some interesting stories online about the process of food deserification (particularly so if you're able to read between the lines). When there are only a couple of grocery stores left, you'd think they would be making big bucks since there's no competition, but the thefts and robberies ramp up since all of the thieves and scum are hitting focusing on a smaller number shops. In other places, riots and looting finished off the grocery store operators. Ferguson is a pretty good example of a post-riot food desert.

[–]Endorsed Contributorvandaalen 1 point2 points  (6 children)

rice and veggies are cheap in North america.

Maybe. I am German and I just stayed in OC, California. Organic apple at Ralph's: $2.50. Cream filled donut around the corner incl. Vanilla coffee: $2.30. The same apple will cost you the equivalent of $1 out of season here, when they are imported from the other side of the world (New Zealand) as opposed to from just around the corner in California.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (5 children)

nobody with a brain pays $2.50 for an apple. Sorry. It's like saying clothes are expensive because the louis vuitton store sells 3000 dollar backpacks. You don't have to buy luxury goods.

[–]Endorsed Contributorvandaalen 0 points1 point  (4 children)

Have you ever been to Orange County?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children)

No, but I'm guessing it's expensive.

[–]Endorsed Contributorvandaalen 0 points1 point  (2 children)

So what would you know about people paying (or not) any amount of money for an apple and their intelligence?

They pay $2.50 for an organic Cripps Pink apple and it's nothing out of the ordinary. You can buy cheaper apples but they suck. They are mushy and taste like shit.

Live there is very expensive and especially groceries of decent quality are. This comes with upsides as well though, like very low criminal rate.

[–]Endorsed Contributorvandaalen 1 point2 points  (0 children)

They're in competition for fucking food, because their country has piss poor economical structure.

LOL. Ukraine is not Ethopia you nutjob.

[–]aanarchist 6 points7 points  (8 children)

i'd argue it's much worse on boys in a way that women will never understand. women will always have a man that will be willing to love her, unless she's got some sort of deformity that makes her worse than quasimodo. there are dudes that are the total package, money, looks, in shape, they still have problems with women and self esteem because of how damaging the society is to them. that's just dudes who are high on the totem pole, the dudes who are average and below get fucking destroyed growing up.

[–]Westernhagen 1 point2 points  (7 children)

Look at it this way. If you are a fugly woman there really isn't much you can do about it. Maybe there is a man for you but he will be a low-quality man, and mostly you'll get pumped and dumped.

On the other hand, if you are an ugly guy, you can go lift, get a good body, and go out and earn money and success. It is much easier for this guy to get a quality woman than for a fugly woman to get a quality man.

[–]strikethrough123 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Nah. She can hit the squats, lose some weight, and I'm sure she can easily cuck an average looking rich dude in his 30's and still have it made.

[–]Westernhagen 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I have yet to see a rich dude with a "ugly but not fat" chick.

[–]aanarchist 0 points1 point  (4 children)

She may not be able to get 1010 chad but nah dude if she isn't a complete piece of shit she'll be able to find someone to love her. It's women's obsession with trading up that's their downfall. Quality men outnumber quality women, feminism saw to that.

[–]Westernhagen 0 points1 point  (3 children)

if she isn't a complete piece of shit she'll be able to find someone to love her

Note that I said she won't be able to find a quality man.

[–]aanarchist 0 points1 point  (2 children)

she will if she wanted to, she just has to choose to be a quality woman. there's a surplus of quality men.

[–]Westernhagen 0 points1 point  (1 child)

She can't choose to not be ugly. And no, there is not a surplus of quality men. 80% of the women are competing for 20% of the men.

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (5 children)

Fun fact is the effects are worse on boys, but you never hear anyone talk about it.

Really? I find that men are able to cope with unrealistic body expectations far better. Success for us is not defined purely on physicality, hence there is more leeway. Also we are wired not to care as much, so I feel like unrealistic body expectations are far worse on women than men.

[–] points points

[permanently deleted]

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Sure. Maybe. Technically speaking, having low SMV / bad physique is worse for guys than girls. Girls decide who gets to have sex, so they have more leeway. But I still think that men are able to cope with it far more effectively. Case in point, I see no body positivity movement for guys, etc. So yeah you're right that men have no such guarantee, but I don't think men care as much.

[–]Endorsed ContributorMetalgear222 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Exactly. There aren't very many anorexic and bulimic boys out there. Mainly a girl issue.

[–]stompie5 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Men probably can, but boys and most teenagers haven't the experience or development to come to such conclusions. That is one of the reasons growing up with a strong and loving father figure is important.

[–]HelpMeFindNewGlasses 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Maybe it has something to do with how males are expected to be less expressive with feelings, leading to less conversations formed around it.

[–] points points

[permanently deleted]

[–]stompie5 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Good for you! It is always encouraging to read comments like this.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Great to hear dude. This is a great attitude.

[–]2 Senior Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours 52 points53 points  (4 children)

Let's look at porn these days. It’s becoming more and more submissive, rough, and everything needs to end in a woman swallowing a man jizz like she’s some submissive fuck toy. Female ideals of beauty are of more and more petite women, and its extremely popular to see young/tiny looking women getting railed by very large imposing men. Women are concerned with being thinner, lighter, tall women are insecure, petite women are at the peak for ideals of femininity

Why do you think that is? Is it the media trying to tell you little girls are hotter than big girls? There'sa Netflix show about porn, and the first episode shows feminist porn. The girls are powerful, the man do not get off, the girls can fake it, there's no hair pulling, no choking, no submission by the girls... they tout this as good porn, the way it should be done, that is beautiful rather than ugly.

They claim mainstream porn is all about degradation, giving girls swirlies and silly shit like that. Then they go on to lament that their porn didn't sell, that even lesbians don't buy it, the average girl doesn't like it. How could that be when it's the perfect porn and done so beautifully?

Because the hottest thing for the overwhelming majority of girls is to be submissive in sex. They want to be choked, hair pulled, told what to do, tied up so they can't move or stop what is happening to them, they want to be used, fucked in whatever way pleases the man fucking them. My girls get the wettest and come the hardest when i pin their hands so they can't move. Wad them into a tiny ball, wrap her arms around her legs, with her knees in her chin, then fuck her like a wild animal, they fucking love it.

Yesterday I had her face down, flat, doing her from behind, I put her arms behind her and pinned them down with my chest. Then I put a hand around her throat, the other over her mouth so she had to breathe through her nose. She said it was incredibly hot. She had no choice but to lay there and get fucked.

That is why porn shows the muscular men dominating the girls, the tiny girls with huge men. Because girls will watch it too. Not only watch it, but buy it. I don't always finish, and many of them feel like they've failed when I don't. They want us to get off, they are wired to want it, they get the most enjoyment out of leaving it in, without a condom. If we don't dump a load in them, they feel like a failure. They need to see the man finish, they want it rough, hard, and dominating.

That is why porn is the way it is. Because it fucking sells.

[–]WhiskeyAndCondoms 4 points5 points  (0 children)

When looking at issues like these you should also always look at who's complaining about them.

In case of pornography or general objectification of women:
Unattractive women.
Guys that can't get laid and think women will fuck them for pretending to care about these issues.
Attractive(or at least average) women that follow an agenda. E.g. Emma Watson or Anita Sarkeesian.

Women that look good, and know that they look good, will not make complaining about this "issue" a major part of their lives simply because for one it doesn't affect them in a negative way but rather really benefits them.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I get this completely, and I expected this point to be raised.

Obviously my point was not that porn is not giving people what they want. Nor was I suggesting it's telling people what they want. My point was that it's a huge exaggeration of the things we want. If you don't think porn exaggerates what real sex is like (submissive aspects and physical) you're either lying or mixed up.

Inb4: "Well, my sex is like porn"

[–]PlebDestroyer 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You gotta get some pornstar level head my friend.

[–]Senior Contributor: "The Court Jester"GayLubeOil 29 points30 points  (3 children)

First of I would contend that no bodybuilder does it for women or societal status. Bodybuilding was never about women it was always about competing against other dudes in a small sweaty 1960's hell hole gym in Santa Monica. Then when you needed steroid money you would go outside answer a pay phone and give a handjob to the gay lawyer who rolled up in his Pontiac.

That being said masculinity and strength have been used interchangeably since the beginning of time. The Greeks had Hercules. The Jews had Samson. The Sumerians had Gilgamesh. The Vikings had Thor. So to say that masculinity isn't about strength and violence at some level is definitely a deconstructivist liberal idea.

Bodybuilding shouldn't be the answer mostly because of the absolute shitshow Bodybuilding is. However it should probably be part of the answer just not your entire identity.

Finally as to why all of this is occurring. I would contend that man needs a religion and Bodybuilding and gym culture provides just that. There are fasting days, perscribed foods, specific rituals, rules and gurus. Bodybuilding gives what modernity has taken yet you still crave. Bodybuilding is a religion when performed at a high level.

But is Bodybuilding a bad religion? Bodybuilders don't molest little boys like Catholics do. Bodybuilders don't yell Aloha Snackbar before detonating themselves in a public place. Bodybuilders arnt wierd new age cucks who rub crystals together, worship idols and forsake the God of their forefathers.

So I would say if you are looking for a good religion in our postmodern age why not bodybuilding? Just don't go full Matt Ogus gay for pay and whatever you do don't put your penis inside a grapefruit.

[–]ManowaR1488 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Powerlifting, another good religion.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Poor Kai. That grapefruit deprived him of the chance to be Mr Olympia.

[–]UnKnownSurviving 22 points23 points  (0 children)

OPs- I love your post. This is really actually a quality post, and a high one at that. Love it. I'm keeping this one. Please continue to keep it real. This is what I am looking for.

[–][deleted] 37 points38 points  (15 children)

Ok the real tldr here is "it's not all about your appearance"

Doing literally nothing but lifting can be pretty boring and thus make the person obsessed with it boring. I'd agree that some meatheads are boring. Hard to be alpha when your super strong and guys don't want to be around you.

BUT, you're overall wrong. There are people that build social circles of crazy hot girls and guys solely on their fitness/aesthetics. They take promotional girls in groups out on the lake on rented boats to get sun and probably drink and end the day/night in an orgy of models. I dated one of these promo models/girls and she was a huge slut. Don't regret it she was the best sex of my life. All her past guys were weight lifting chads. I was the least so.

They club together, travel and participate in spartan races, tough mudders, wsm competition, cycling races, rock climbing, etc.

Extreme focus on just fitness can literally make someone the most interesting man in the world. Look at Arnold Schwarzenegger. Most likely the most alpha Chad there has ever been.

[–]Noolaw 11 points12 points  (0 children)

I don't know who the fuck down voted you but lifting is super important. If i didnt lift there would be no way i would have become the most popular guy in the office. Everybody comes and asks you for fitness advice people listen to your more and it really helps since i have to present ideas all day to a mostly female workforce.

[–]3kinggreat 16 points17 points  (13 children)

BUT, you're overall wrong. There are people that build social circles of crazy hot girls and guys solely on their fitness/aesthetics.

I think you've missed OP's point with this. He fairly acknowledges that some guys are truly motivated by aethsetics and this lifestyle and never explicitly denies the benefits of it.

The point I've taken away is that although this has its benefits, it shouldn't be seen as 'baseline' or what being and looking like a man is. And he makes a solid case for a growing generation of insecure body obsessed boys.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (12 children)

I get his point. I personally believe a man should be interesting. Meatheads are usually boring.

However, insecure body obsessed boys? Just sounds like people that lift and aren't interesting to me.

We are saying the same thing except I'm saying, being body obsessed can lead some people to a really interesting life. There's literally zero reason to attempt to discourage it. Hence why I think the overall message is distorted and meh.

[–]MyLittlePonyofDoom 9 points10 points  (6 children)

There are theoretical physicists who think an extreme focus say on quantum physics can you the most interesting man in the world. Look at Leonard Susskind, a yuge alpha chad.

Don't want to sound like a downer but what happens when you get older, lose you physique and others start finding out there is nothing on the inside...

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (3 children)

Good point. But I did see some 80 year old Chinese dude who became a runway model and was homeless and started lifting for the first time in life at like 75 years old. He is buff as hell. So I think looking good and keeping fit we can do our whole lives. But good to hedge your bets of course with diversity of interests.

[–]MyLittlePonyofDoom 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Am fucked because I don't have good facial symmetry. Will need to get rich instead.

[–] points points

[permanently deleted]

[–]MyLittlePonyofDoom 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The mask would be good at orgies admittedly

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (4 children)

OP here, I see your point.

I agree that a lot of great men have been born out of what one might have initially labelled an unhealthy obsession.

However are you certain that promoting a untruth about masculinity to men gives a net gain? Sure some will prosper, but is it the best way to go about raising a generation of men?

I know I won't be raising my son to think he can be a man based on something so superficial. And I especially won't be doing that in anticipation of it fostering something brilliant.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Um, it's super masculine and focusing on their aesthetics will only help them in life. So yes if they become obsessed or encouraged to be obsessed their life will likely be better. Aim for the stars and if you fall short you will likely still go far.

The people who become unhealthy obsessed and are uninteresting and disappointed have bigger mental issues.

[–][deleted] 20 points21 points  (24 children)

Women who complain about models ruining kids self esteem are full of shit. They are also usually fat femensists, desperately trying to get every other chick as fat as they are to limit their competition. Modern feminism is a breeding weapon for ugly women and lazy women (allows them to eat shit and not workout and guilt other women into doing the same).

The truth is that fat shaming is the most effective method by far of improving people's health.

Do some people develop eating disorders ? Yes and they have other mental shit to deal with. They do not represent everyone.

I tell my sister all the time to never let herself gain weight like my mother did; her life will be significantly easier that way. In fact, I haven't told her about the redpill but I have taught her how to be predatory on men with her looks because I don't want to support her ass one day when she's a burned out club slut.

[–]TheEagleAndTheSnake 4 points5 points  (4 children)

Elaborate please, I have a sister about to hit the wall in less than a decade & would like to save her from herself very much. EDIT: Without taking care of her lazy ass financially of course.

[–][deleted] 14 points15 points  (3 children)

She got the freshman 10lbs and her legs got kinda fat. I told her in the nicest way possible why it was a slipery slope. She trusts me and I treat her very well. A good relationship with fathers and brothers etc teaches a girl how to chose a man one day (and vice versa).

In addition, I taught her to find a man (essentially beta bucks) and solidify her future. She is high enough Smv that he can also probably give her the tingles. The most important thing is that he love her and take care of her. Security. Since your a man and on redpill it's quite easy. Aim them at Silicon Valley, New York, LA, other big hubs. They need to be in big cities and find busy betas.

Essentially I am training her to hunt blue pills for financial stability.

[–] points points

[permanently deleted]

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Try and be powerful influencial and fit and have hot girlfriends.

Then around your sister show disgust for fat feminist hoes. Show respect for fitness chicks and driven girls.

She will project that onto her future, as long as she respects you. And it seems like she would.

[–]anonlymouse 3 points4 points  (13 children)

The truth is that fat shaming is the most effective method by far of improving people's health.

If your goal is actually improving their health, which by the way it isn't, you just think they look disgusting and want them to stop looking disgusting so their presence doesn't inconvenience you, then no, it's not. Weight cycling is very unhealthy, and leads to greater weight gain in the long run. That's if they even try to lose weight in the first place and don't resort to comfort eating a tub of ice cream every time they're shamed. If you actually want to improve someone's health, because you care about them, you encourage them to join you in a healthy activity and healthy eating.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (12 children)

Encouraging to eat healthy etc is bs. To get the hint they are socially undesireable and to improve their lives, people need to be told and I quote "reduce your food intake, workout, and you will be happier. Or don't and rationalize your misery until you die one day wondering what could have been."

You are just rationalizing. The truth isn't positive. It isn't positive to say stop eating fucking tasty shit like toaster strudels and chocolate Bars. That is some depressing realizations to have. Eating healthy sucks.

The truth is painful and nitty gritty but they will respect you for having the balls to tell it to them directly like no one else had the balls to.

Everyone else tells them "hey just eat healthy. Hey you look great you could be a plus size model! Large and in charge woman !" lol

[–]anonlymouse 0 points1 point  (10 children)

reduce your food intake, workout, and you will be happier

This is a lie, coming from an idiot who hasn't the slightest clue what they're talking about. I've cut weight for wrestling and MMA competition. I was fucking miserable for the week leading up to the competition, every time. My flat-mates would leave me alone, I didn't want anyone talking to me. No, not eating and engaging in hard exercise, does not fucking make you happy. Eating a lot of tasty food, however, does.

Eating healthy sucks.

No it doesn't, it's fucking awesome. There's tons of healthy food that tastes great and makes you feel great.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (9 children)

I've cut for boxing and mma, I understand. that wasnt the point. The point was cutting and eating well would overall make your life better and happier because you won't be a fat piece of shit. Cutting to make weight last minute as a boxer is a totally different animal. It was obvious I wasn't talking about that. This is a comment to an average overweight pos, not some fit person trying to fight in a competive weight class.

Also eating healthy does fucking suck. Of course overall I feel better, higher performance and more energy, just like I said above. However, I don't eat doughnuts when coworkers bring them in even though it looks delicious as a mofo. I have to keep bread and pasta cravings in check and I eat only meat and fucking veggies. It fucking sucks to think about food choices when it is so plentiful.

But that's part of being a disciplined high value man, ffs.

[–]anonlymouse 3 points4 points  (8 children)

That is the point. Not eating sucks. It makes you unhappy. You don't make your life happier by being unhappy. You also don't make yourself healthier by starving yourself. Their life won't be any better, they'll be miserable. You're only saying it for your benefit.

Eating healthy doesn't mean cutting categories of food out. It means you only eat healthy varieties of them. I'll eat proper bread, but nothing that remotely resembles Wonderbread. I'll eat Müesli, if it's made properly with rolled oats soaked in water overnight, but I won't eat boxed dry cereal. I don't have cravings for the doughnuts coworkers might bring in because I've got pastries covered well enough with croissants. Chocolate? I don't eat much, but when I do it's Läderach.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (6 children)

From what your telling me your eating a shit ton more carbs than most humans can and remain extremely aesthetic. Even for ectomorphs. You must have amazing genetics or you must burn insane calories every day or both.

Alas we are both saying similar except you are saying "do what is happy like eat croissants" which is lacking in dedication and is beta as fuck.

If I had an ltr and she did that, I would dump her the second she gained weight and past history has told me that when I dump them they are much less happy than when I didn't let them stuff their faces with nasty food.

So they choose what will make them happier. Momentary happiness of carbicide or an LTR with someone that won't tolerate them reaching a certain % body fat.

Say what you will but both men and women should strive to have fit bodies and some cannot do that while eating what they really really want to eat. If you can, good for you man. I wouldn't even look at a fucking croissant ever.

[–]fackdack 1 point2 points  (4 children)

From what your telling me your eating a shit ton more carbs than most humans can and remain extremely aesthetic. Even for ectomorphs. You must have amazing genetics or you must burn insane calories every day or both.

A little off topic, do you believe in calories in/out? Everywhere I try to learn about cutting I hear "just burn more calories than you eat". At the same time, "carbs are the devil". Why would it matter how many carbs you're eating, if overall calories is below maintenance?

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Carbs are good for temporary energy. So a simple way to live and eat healthy is consume how much protein you want to maintain x amount of weight (bulk) which usually uses up most calories you can take in a day without gaining fat unless you are working out a lot.

So you count calories because to take in enough protein you will as a byproduct consume a lot of calories. I eat eggs and meat mainly. Salad is a filler.

I eat a small amount of carbs before I do a hard workout. So I might eat a peice of bread before I go on a 9 mile run for energy. Maybe wait an hour before you run.

Everyone's body is different. If someone is a hard gainer, or ectomorph, they will want more carbs for energy.

For me, I am an endomorph. To remain cut I have to watch my calories, maintain bulk via high protein foods, and consume minimal carbs because they are usually high in calories and low in protein.

Carbs also have sugars basically which actually increase hunger. So carbs are dangerous. So is sugar obviously.

But like we have said everyone is different. In general people overeat but count calories, figure out how much protein you should be eating, and figure out how hard you are working out. For me, every 6 miles I run I burn 1200 calories.

I also don't have to lift as much because I am naturally very muscular/strong. But I also gain fat easily. So I lift some and do a lot of cardio.

For an extreme endomorph this can be nice.

For an ectomorph you may want tons of carbs, tons of protein, and even more calories.

This is just s starting point.

For me, I completely avoid carbs unless I feel like I'll need the energy. Because it's just cutting it too close on calories. Fats are a good replacement for carbs if you are low on calories and starving that day, so maybe eat a fatty steak to satiate your hunger rather than a bunch of bread. More protein.

Always comes down to your objectives but calories in vs calories out is much more complex than that; types of calories matter because they will make you feel a certain way. Too many carbs will make you sluggish and too few will as well.

Not enough protein and starving will make you get small and lose Muscle mass.

So it's about how your body is and what you want to look like and live your life.

[–]anonlymouse -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

I do have amazing genetics, yes. That's also a factor. Simply saying eat less isn't going to help if you're not factoring the genetics of the person into question. If you actually want to help someone, you don't just tell them to eat less. You tell them to get a DNA test from 23andMe or Ancestry, and run it through Promethease, to see what genes they have that have shown to cause susceptibility to weight gain with certain foods.

I wouldn't even look at a fucking croissant ever.

I guess if you can't tell a good one from a bad one, which you obviously can't if you're entirely cutting carbs from your diet, you might have to. But then you probably can't tell good meat from bad meat either.

[–]HumphreyPumpernickel -1 points0 points  (0 children)

you sound really socially desirable lol

[–]caffeinum -1 points0 points  (4 children)

Well, you're basically saying just the same point that OP is against.

First of all, about feminism: I think you probably talk about body-positive movement, however, the following applies to both.

Across movement supporters, you see ones who are the most loud and the most controversial. These appear on TV, on news, these write blog posts and go to parades. The majority of the feminist movements is not like that. They may have different reasons to join (e.g. they just envy beautiful women, like you said). But the main idea is that society and its labels, traditions and presumptions is ruining minds and applies unnecessary social pressure. And it's not much about how it shouldn't do that, but more about how should you react to this. And here goes exactly what OP is saying: fuck public opinions, i live for myself. I'm gonna be slim, strong, sexual only to the point I want me to be, not to what others want me to see. If I'm happy with being fat, why do you care? Women is

About fat shaming. Scientifically proven that the most effective way of training is not through punishment, but it is through reward. Shaming anyone weakens them. Rewarding opens up and frees them to believe in themselves. Moreover, it's not your job to "cure" them. It's their lives and their choices, and they don't need your opinion shoving down their throats.

All in all, I don't understand how body-positive can be a breeding weapon. I would not go out with a women so insecure that she's trying to put anyone else in the same weight category. There would be a lot more mental shit in her, even if she has succeeded and is beyond competition.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (3 children)

You literally just said "if I'm happy being fat". People that say that also end up saying "I have such a great personality that girl is a bitch for not fucking me."

[–]caffeinum 1 point2 points  (2 children)

There is difference between being happy and believing you have great qualities.

"Happy being fat" implies knowing that you're fat.

Moreover DEMANDING something for your qualities is total shit.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I agree hence why I am saying all you can preach is self improvement. To accept being fat is sad.

[–]caffeinum 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Some people stuck in the mindset where they don't care about their looks because they don't identify with them.

The first step would be to accept your look and be happy about it. If that, you would be willing to improve and change it. If you don't accept, you have no desire to change it as long as you don't identify yourself with it.

[–]massivewang 3 points4 points  (0 children)


  • Same shit we've heard before, lifting isn't everything, neither are looks

Lifting is good/encouraged because:

  • Most betas have shit bodies
  • You can produce great results in 3-6 months and totally tansform your body within a year
  • Women respond positively to fit men
  • The results boost confidence/day to day feeling etc

It's important to remember that:

  • Lifting is just one aspect of physical activity
  • You can do BJJ, MMA, run, cycle, do calsthenics or body weight fitness
  • Diet is the most important aspect of all of this
  • ALOT OF MOTHERFUCKERS ARE ON STEROIDS. If you follow anyone on IG, more likely than not THEY ARE ON STEROIDS.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

[–]mr-no-homo 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I used to life for girls, that changed into lifting for myself and developing the discipline to stay with something until you succeed. I became addicted to the rush and feelings of hitting personal records and the months and months of chipping away at those personal lift goals. Those lessons and experiment carried over into my person life and I am better off now mentally and physically, than I was before I started my fitness journey.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

What you see in magazines in not necessarily 'unrealistic', but you're not going to achieve that without doing drugs. You should still try to achieve the greatest physique you can naturally, but you have to be realistic with yourself. I've been training naturally for 4-5 years now and my physique looks better than most guys in my gym that take gear. I know in my head that I'll never be as dry and shredded as the guys in the fitness magazines but that doesn't stop me from killing it in the gym every other day.

[–]Ambiguousdude 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I've heard ridiculous sentiments from girls e.g zac efron in bayway- he's not "muscular" enough. But they talk shit all the time.

[–]george-stark 8 points9 points  (4 children)

You do make a couple of solid points but the paragraph about gender identity makes me think you're still in college.

You are in for a rude awakening once you enter CorporateLand and see those strong independent women for yourself.

Spoiler Alert: everything you are taught about 'gender equality' is bullshit. Sorry :)

[–]tteabag2591 10 points11 points  (0 children)

but the paragraph about gender identity makes me think you're still in college.

He wasn't talking about gender identity. He was talking about sex differences and how they're being "hyper exaggerated" for profit. Google "supernormal stimuli" if you want to read more about it.

[–]caffeinum 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Can you please broaden your thought about gender equality?

[–]george-stark 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Sure, I guess have some time to waste this weekend. I'll keep it short though. Despite what media tries to make people believe, career women are extremely rare. 90% of the women in my office work significantly less than the men.

Most are mid 20s and into LTRs or still on the CC. They work only because they have to and will almost never turn into main breadwinners. They care about themselves and perhaps their future offspring, not professional development.

Note that this is merely observation and does not upset me at all. Angerphase long over here. Just saying that his point about men no longer being the prime workers of the household is couldn't be further from the truth. My 20 corporate cents.

[–]unicorrnr 0 points1 point  (0 children)

However, it's still damn solid sexual-strategy wise, and I don't know what's the problem with having beauty standards. I don't want a fat bitch either.

[–]Sullibang 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I would say it's more the men who are obsessed with the ideal but not are not willing to put in any kind of tangible or effective effort (for something they probably don't even actually want) who are the ones who are in trouble.

[–]GunsGermsAndSteel 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah I don't think I'm gonna have to worry about this. 😆 I'm strong as fuck and my arms are pretty big (18" biceps), but I have a beer belly even though I don't drink beer.

The deal I have with myself is informally that as long as I stay in the gym and keep myself really strong, I can eat basically whatever I want.

It's a good deal.

My wife is happy with my arms, shoulders, traps etc and I don't think she really cares that I have a little gut. Abs are for frat boys.

[–]ThedragonCarnage 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Thank you for your words. They were thoroughly needed.

After letting myself go for a year, i gained a very large amount of weight, to the point that any social interaction is painful, leading me to be more alone than i have ever been. Even the act of buying clothes and seeing the sizes i normally wear being too tight is hellish for me.

But you are right. I am too focused on what i should LOOK like to be a man, as opposed to what i should BE like to be a man. looks like i need to put equal focus on all matters of my life, not just appearance.

Also, i just started keto and stronglifts 5x5...so my body will not be neglected too.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That's it man. Lift, cardio, ect. Get in good shape and health. Just don't think you need to look a very specific way to be a man.

[–]newName543456 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I'm still not sure if juiced look is as desirable as actually achievable ripped-athletic look (significantly smaller muscles, but BF still in 8-10% range).

I mean, compare this:


to this:


[–]randomassortment_ 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Is it just me who doesn't go this deep on the topic? I don't really think about the societal implications of getting a physique. I just wanna get laid. I get laid by getting muscle. So I do that. It's the same for women. How do they get laid? They get laid by wearing makeup and slimming down. Who cares, just do what you want

[–]Not_Just_You 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Is it just me

Probably not

I'm a bot, reply good bot to this comment to unsubscribe/resubscribe

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's a normal healthy mindset to have for sure. This just happens to be a subject I do like to think about and dissect.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Fact : investing time and effort into your physical stength and physique shows self worth both in and out.

Lifting is something that gives tangible results. It leads to a mindset that will strengthen your self worth in other areas.

Anything else is an excuse.

[–]PlebDestroyer 1 point2 points  (0 children)

packing in excess calories, high protein and eating large quantities of animal protein every day is what you want to do because it makes you happy. Because you genuinely want to look that way. You’re willing to sacrifice cardio and a normal caloric intake for it, well you fucking do that.

Mate you yourself seem to be very lost and confused about fitness.

3 things come to mind here.

  1. You can & should do cardio regardless of weather you are trying to put on mass or not. If you are trying to put on mass, it just means you have to eat a bit more. If you are trying to lose weight, then it allows you to eat a bit more.

It's good for general heart health. The idea that you can't do cardio and build muscle is pure bro science.

2.A natural lifter only needs between 1 and 1.6 grams per pound of KILOGRAM of bodyweight. That's between 74 & 120g of protein for a guy my size who is trying to put on size. You have to increase that number when you're cutting. There are no additional muscle gains to be had beyond that amount of consumption. The best part is that these protein totals are easily achievable without the aid of protein supplements (which I fucking hate, they are all disgusting).

  1. Are you seriously bitching about "packing in excess calories" man? Nothing worth it ever came easy in life. And eating in a 250-500 calorie surplus isn't that hard.

So yeah, maybe aesthetic goals aren't worth it...if you're following bullshit broscience rules. If you actually know what the fuck you're doing in the gym and with your diet, then you can achieve a pretty great physique with some consistency.

The only argument that I would make in favor of your point would be time spent in the gym. If you're on a good beginner program designed to maximize gains + warmup, mobility, core work + travel time, it all adds up. Otherwise, quit bitchin.


You can achieve a great physique, health and importantly an attractive aura through being happy with who you are and what you are doing for YOURSELF, not for others.

This is true. You said it yourself earlier in the post, one of the best things about lifting is that you come to appreciate the change you have mad in your body. When I look at my body I am incredibly happy at what I see because I know where I have been. In this frame I can be proud of my physique. BUT what makes this feeling even better is knowing that I have SO MUCH more potential in what I can achieve and I ALREADY look this good. I'm giddy just thinking about it. But you can only achieve this mindset by putting in the work. And like I said, if done intelligently, it's really not THAT hard.


Since I was writing this as I read I finally started to agree with you in the end. I still take issue with where you start using the "but" word to contrast being strong, healthy and focused on your health with being in shape and attractive.

Yes, definitely don't confuse what can and can't be achieved natty, and do fitness for you.

[–]returnofthemackX 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Am I on the fucking blue pill? To me this looks like hamstering to not lift.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I'm surprised you reached that conclusion as I vouched for the very powerful positive benefits from lifting. This was about motivations and expectations not the lifting itself.

[–]EndowedTurtle 1 point2 points  (1 child)

This is a meta post like no other: TRP should be about the self and what it takes to make one the most confident and happy they can be. Fuck society, we're on this earth for ourselves

[–]Endorsed ContributorMarsupian 1 point2 points  (0 children)

There is no should be here, it already is. There is a good balance between posts on becoming the man you want to be and more practical strategy to achieve specific goals.

[–] points points

[permanently deleted]

[–]HelpMeFindNewGlasses 0 points1 point  (2 children)

That's quite the slippery slope.

[–] points points

[permanently deleted]

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

How did you take that away from this?

[–]FirstnameLastnamePKA 1 point2 points  (4 children)

Ive tried lifting twice now, once for 6 months (6 months every weekday in the morning plus cardio for a PE credit) and over that period I never improved my Max (130; at 17 thats just pathetic, especially compared to everyone else in my PE weights) even when doing high wieght low reps. Showing up to the Gym and lifting small wieghts didnt bug me, but going back day after day and seeing no difference in my body did. I tried it again acouple months ago for 3 months and no change again. I wieght in at 135 and im 6'1. I just want some fucking help, my dad who could help will not come to the gym with me, and my friends all lift so much more lifting with me is dangerous (insufficient spotting), and time consuming for them (switching weights constantly). I really dont know what to fucking do put on any sort of muscle, or even fucking fat, and its beyond frustrating to be faced with 0 results for 6 months of work.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Were u following a program during those 6 months or naw? I personally remember starting lifting for 6 months when I was 15, quitting, and doing around 6 months of lifting again when I turned 16. Sadly, I had fuckarounditis and didn't follow a program during all this time, and made very little progress looks/strengthwise. However around last June, I stared following the PPL program 2x a week, and it's been a little over a year and I look pretty good at 5'11 165lbs and I'm 17btw.

[–]goldaxis 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The big lifts (bench, squat, etc) are strongly dependent on your bodyweight, so if you are very light, you won't lift much even if you're all muscle.

You're 17 years old? That's too young to be worried about being small. Truth is, your body won't be fully mature until your early 20's, and I wouldn't recommend any kind of extreme lifting till then (ignore the kids trying to squat 300, they are either cruising for an injury or on some kind of PED). That said, you can definitely condition yourself and build some muscle.

Number one thing is diet. Bodybuilding is math. Calories come in. Calories burn up. If there are extras, you gain weight. If there are not enough, you lose weight. Simple as that. It doesn't matter if you eat nothing but chicken and brown rice if you aren't getting enough total calories. You need a surplus, about 200 over your maintenance every day. At least 1g protein per pound of bodyweight. Do that and lift for an hour three or four times a week and I guarantee you will build muscle. But honestly, as a kid...you can probably just do push ups, crunches, squats, and some dumbbells at home and still make gains.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

IMO this post is more what TRP should be about than sexual strategy should be.

[–]beginner_ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I see where OP is coming from. The idea/image portrayed you such reach is way, way out there and far away from the (skinny) fat guys starting to read TRP. Chances are you are skinny fat because of genetics. Studies have shown that the variance / natural variation of muscle growth is huge. Yeah you need to train but for some it takes 3xtimes the amount of work and times to get there and hence it is impossible to look like these guys in the images (same can be said about women and the women in these images). These are genetically top 0.1% of people and even if you dedicated your career to it you would not get there and sure not without roids.

Yeah, still go to the gym at least 3-times a week. You can still go for an athletic look. And if you don't like the gym that much, do some outdoor sport (running, cycling, hiking, climbing,...)

[–]goldaxis 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I've been working out hard for about three years. I follow bodybuilding routines, and have built a really great physique (about 200lbs @ 6'). Nice chest, solid core, all the stuff you'd expect from working out for hundreds of hours and eating right. I like that kind of training. But I'm still "natty". That is, I've never used steroids or other PEDs. And it should come as no surprise that a lot of people think I'm just a light lifter or only in decent shape, because they legitimately believe that the guy who is 240lbs of shredded muscle you see on the side of the protein container is what you get if you go to the gym more than twice a week. I don't consider myself to be bitter, but I have noticed that I have lost a lot of respect for people in general and women in particular for being unable to recognize or appreciate a high level of conditioning without the use of PEDs.

Obviously, being in bad shape doesn't do you any social favors, but if you think dedicating yourself to even the most intense training is going to put you on easy street, you're in for a surprise. Unless you are using PEDs, it's outright impossible for you to reach the kind of mass and definition that most people consider to be "great condition". And it's not even the huge bodybuilders. ALL lean men you see in fitness promotions are on something. Understand that a scrawny teenager can juice for two or three years and be twice as big and strong as you are. Understand that your girlfriend will get bigger and stronger than you on gear. It's just a totally different level, it is the standard that comes to most peoples' minds, and it's absolutely futile to compete against it.

TLDR: Lift to be in good shape and enjoy fitness for what it is. Don't be fooled into thinking it's anything more.

[–]middaylantern 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The UFC spits in the face of this notion, sweeps the feet and curb stomps it. These new women of the UFC are beasts and women are feeling empowered by them. Men are practically required to know jiu jitsu in this day and age because martial arts training is not complete without it.

[–]figyg 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Working out shouldn't be about pure aesthetics. Work in an office? You gotta work out for your health and mental well being. You are an animal and animals need movement, just like your dog or cat. Don't think about it as "Gains" but as keeping your machine in working order

[–]Shaman6624 0 points1 point  (0 children)

But how do you deal with a guy obviously taller and stronger then you who comes across as if he has won a 100 fights trying to take your girl.. In the male dominance hierarchy isn't there still a space reserved for the strongest and fastest. It's just one way to be masculine there are others.

[–]gelu295 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Why it was removed? Saved for later but its nothing here now

[–]sarthak_kant 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't know when I found you guys, but I'm glad I did.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I would argue that having a strong posterior chain and strong legs is far more important than pecs and arms. Maybe I'm biased but I find olympic lifters far more attractive and masculine than bodybuilders.

[–]UCISee 0 points1 point  (3 children)

One of the greatest feelings in the gym is seeing a dude who's drastically larger than you lifting approximately the same amount of weight. It really blows everything you're talking about out of the water. I'm currently 187 and in some cases can lift as much or more than dudes who are over 200/205/210 in my gym. It actually drives me to continue, because it gives this real sense of accomplishment, like, you don't need to eat ridiculous amounts of food, wear $300 in gear, take $60 in supps a day, etc.; here I am in a white t-shirt, target shorts and worn out chucks lifting the same as you with no grunting or fanfare. The validation comes from within, not externally. I know that guy in the bar has bigger arms than I do, but I've also spotted him on bench and know I can bench more than he can. This write up is spot on.

[–]goldaxis 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Don't knock light lifting. By REALLY focusing on the muscle contraction and executing proper form (which you can't do with weight you find heavy), you can push your physique to a higher level with relatively light weight. It also greatly reduces the risk of injury. Lots of bodybuilders do this.

[–]UCISee 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah I mean that's kind of the point I was making. A lot of bodybuilders aren't nearly as strong as they should be for their size and weight. I'm not saying I'm a powerlifter by any means, but personally it's strength first, physique second for me. That is obviously a personal preference but it is fun to watch dudes egos deflate because they can't lift as much as someone they think they're stronger than because, in general, the thought is the bigger you are the stronger you are. I was merely pointing out another facet to OP's general point.

[–]caffeinum -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Was pleasantly surprised this dialogue about gender roles and social pressure happens on TRP!

OP, I love it and think we should see more like this

[–]sanicthehedgefund -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

I immideately think of the mouse utopia, with the "beautiful ones" grooming themselves excessively. That seems to explain a lot of things. Maybe the lifters are the human version of the "beautiful ones".

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points  (1 child)

There is no red pill. Ill make it obvious for you. Some people like taylor swifts face and some don't. Some like the social guy because he might be seen as confident but another would see the same person as an attention seeker. Now we can conclude that being yourself and living the life you want is the only necessary thing to do. Good day.. and btw, there is no 1, 3 or 9. It all changes based on people. I am a 9 for some and a 1 for others. Here is your freedom