Building PowerBoyhood to Manhood, why you need to 'live as if your father were dead' | Embracing your own masculinity (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by 1thegolddawg

“Live as if your father were dead” –David Deida

Let me explain

Now before anyone gets this all fucked up let me explain the quote. If you were lucky growing up, you would have had a father in the house, one that you could count on. Many of us looked at our fathers like superheroes as kids.

• If you were getting bullied at school, you could come home and ask your father for advice.

• If you liked a girl but didn’t know what to say, your dad would tell you the lines he used back in his day.

• If you needed help getting ready for your first job, your dad would give you some advice.

Boyhood to Manhood

However, there comes a time when boys must become men. It is during these times when they must gain complete independence and live as if their fathers were dead. This does not mean to ignore your father and never call him. Instead, you must learn to live a life on your terms and cultivate a degree of independence. Men solve problems, and you must learn to solve your own.

Becoming a man means fully embracing this reality. Gone are the days where you looked to other people for the solutions to your problems.

• If your car breaks down on the side of the road, you are either going to fix it or call the mechanic or someone else trained to fix it. You are not going to call your dad for advice.

• If you want to change jobs, you are going to weigh out the pros and cons. You are not going to cry or ask your dad for his opinion.

• If you find a girl that you want to live with, you are not going to ask your dad for permission.

It's your life

You learned your lessons from your father, but as a man, you must make your own choices. Create your own values and live life by your own merits. As a man, you are on your own in this world. Turn on the TV; if women or children die it’s a tragedy. If men die, no one really gives a shit, it’s expected. So grab your balls and live life as if your father was dead.

Video Post

[–][deleted] 62 points63 points  (4 children)

When I was 18, my dad died.

I was only "sad" for my mother and her loss (they had a cute old love story and we're awesome life partners, went through a lot of shit together). But I digress

I instantly knew it was my calling to become a man. I had been sleepwalking through my entire life. A "yes man" who always performed and pleased. Did what other people told me to do.

Granted, I went through a period of binge drinking and hedonism, and continued coasting for a couple years. But at the time I instantly had a lot more work to do on our farm, and had to help my mother with a lot of things I previously didn't. And by 3 years afterwards, I was far ahead of my peers in terms of ambition, and emotional stability

[–]Vitamin_Red 10 points11 points  (1 child)

Why weren't you sad when your father died? Bad relationship?

[–][deleted] 58 points59 points  (0 children)

Death is a part of life. Grief is a funny thing. I really wept for my mother's loss. For me, I can deal with death, because it's inevitable. Don't get me wrong, I was sad after the initial shock / numbness (hence the booze, weed and over-attachment to a girl during 1st year of school) but only because I realize how much I was loved and how little I had cared. People die every day man. Cherish your father and respect his sacrifices while he's still around for you to return the love

[–]nivekx 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I instantly knew it was my calling to become a man. I had been sleepwalking through my entire life. A "yes man" who always performed and pleased. Did what other people told me to do.

Would you mind ellaborating on this part? At this point in my life I feel just like that, that word you used, "sleepwalking" for some reason it resonates with me because that is exactly how I've been feeling lately but I couldn't describe it How did you manage to overcome this?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Take action. Make the tough decisions. Fuck other people's desires for what YOU want in YOUR life. Because you asked for elaboration, I'll outline my story below for you.

The "sleepwalking" part is referring to coasting, just getting by. You go to school, do what the teachers say to do, go home, obey your parents, and you have no idea why the fuck you're doing it other than because you're being told to do so. Where things really change up is when you start questioning the why. What is your "why"?

I don't know how old you are, but up until age 18, I didn't have a clue what I wanted out of my future reality. Think forward 5-10 years, and where you want to be. I find that often, as boys becoming men, someone else is deciding that for you based on your skills and abilities (not necessarily your passion).

For me, I was a lifeguard and swimming instructor. Great gig. But my parents were really steering me towards becoming a teacher. Telling me I'd be a great teacher. And I was like shrug I guess that's what I'll go to University for. But while I'm awesome at educating and helping others, that whole politically-correct atmosphere was not for me. I was obsessed with basketball and wanted to be a professional player - still a goal to this day.

So around 3rd year university, I emailed my mom and told her I wanted to switch my program to "Health, Wellness and Fitness" since I spend 4-7 hours in the gym everyday, and was voraciously reading physiological science online to better my athleticism. (I didn't mention the basketball thing because everyone shut me down when I expressed that desire. Not worth my time listening to all the reasons why I can't make it, from people who didn't understand my drive, determination & attention to detail). Of course, she gave me a million reasons not to do it, and I said "ok mom" and went and did it anyway. For a while, I had to wear a mask. A facade. Every family gathering I was getting asked about teacher bullshit so I came up with some lies and kept my story consistent for them. Meanwhile, I was building a career in an entirely different area.

Granted, I'm still not a professional basketball player! LOL. But I'm one of the best at the game in my area, I dominate every pickup game and guys want me to join a college/university to play in a proper league. I'm always asked to join men's leagues teams. Here's the catch though

Somewhere along the way, I realized I was DOPE at computers and creating websites. Started my own business, found clients on Kijiji, had coffees with them to find out their needs and closed them on (very underpaid) projects. Built my own shit to around 30-40 (low-paying) clients, but the experience along the way has catapulted me to where I am now: Marketing Manager with a salary pay. Meanwhile, I work on my game every day. I have friends who play pro. Along the way building websites and digital marketing shit, I made highlight videos for buddies who went pro overseas. And now I have all the connections I need, and all the skill I need, I'm just biding my time until my body is 100% before I put myself out there at tryouts and combines.

TL;DR --- Long story short, I'm happy. And living my life on my own terms.

[–]cyber_rigger 20 points21 points  (4 children)

My Take:

I think it is childish to ignore your dad (or teacher, coach, mentor) because you have become a man.

You should treat him as a fellow man not as a kid who avoids him because they are afraid of what he might say..

I disagree with this whole concept. It might work if you have never met your dad.

[–]JeNeSaitQuoi 5 points6 points  (3 children)

I think it is childish to ignore your dad (or teacher, coach, mentor) because you have become a man.

You're right. As a human being, you do not ignore these people.

However, you can't continue to follow advice based on someone's outdated experiences.

I think it is arrogant --and worse -- for someone to assume that their advice should be heeded just simply because of who they are.

And btw, teacher, coach, mentor...... those are people we choose to be in our lives. Let's add therapist to that as well. A mature self-possessed person is regularly reviewing whether those relationships should continue in their present forms.

[–]Cos_7_ate_9 2 points3 points  (2 children)

However, you can't continue to follow advice based on someone's outdated experiences.

Why would their experiences be outdated? Is what you'll learn over the next 20-30 years going to be useless to share because it will be outdated?

I think it is arrogant --and worse -- for someone to assume that their advice should be heeded just simply because of who they are.

In the good cases you've got someone in this world actually looking out for you 100% with a couple of decades more wisdom on you. Obviously don't follow his advice solely on authority but there's good reasons to listen.

And btw, teacher, coach, mentor...... those are people we choose to be in our lives. Let's add therapist to that as well. A mature self-possessed person is regularly reviewing whether those relationships should continue in their present forms.

As an adult all of this applies to your family also with some exceptions.

[–]JeNeSaitQuoi -1 points0 points  (1 child)

Why would their experiences be outdated? Is what you'll learn over the next 20-30 years going to be useless to share because it will be outdated?

With that attitude you are exactly the kind of person that someone should ignore.

[–]Cos_7_ate_9 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You're right, my fellow millennials are a more than sufficient fountain of wisdom.

[–][deleted] 42 points43 points  (1 child)

I can vouch for this. I grew up non-traditionally: No wife, no kids, went bankrupt, allowed my condo to foreclose, no full-time job, heck right now I have about $300 in the bank (after having just $40 a few days ago). If most people tell you this line, they are probably telling story of how they failed in life. But - I'm as happy as I've ever been, I have lots of freedom, I live abundantly, and great things keep coming to me because when things get tough, I re-learn to believe in appreciating the little things, and before you know it opportunities fall into my lap. I love traveling, and last year I traveled to at least six places internationally including living in Europe for a month. I take showers, I don't smell, I have just enough clothes to make me look richer than $300. Yeah, chicks too, though I'm not going to brag about the number of chicks I take home. My game is keep it low, and land the good ones. But I digress.

I grew up mainly without my father. If my dad had been there? Well he's pretty masculine himself so I'd probably listen to him, even if a little bit. I intentionally broke up with a few long term girlfriends when I saw them (subconsciously) start to take my freedom away to have a traditional life. But with a dad, I will probably be married to one of those women, might have a kid, might be working a full-time job I hate, just so I could be "the man of the family." So - not growing up without a father, while there's certainly things about that that I missed on (like having a father figure to help teach me how to pick up women as a growing teenager), as someone in my mid 30's, it's helped me a lot in defining my own path, my own masculinity, and certainty in the fact that I want to live only my life, and just my own.

[–]Z33ger 12 points13 points  (0 children)

with a dad, I will probably be married to one of those women, might have a kid, might be working a full-time job I hate

Johns often beget Johns, and "Chads" do them same wth their own, but exceptions must exist. Blood and social standing are both fluid--we live in a fantastic world of opportunities for those with keen enough eyes to spot them. Anybody can rise above with enough wit, grit, self-determination.

[–]purgetheinfidels 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Try that in Florida without a car.

[–]NeoreactionSafe 46 points47 points  (7 children)


This is confused.

Your mother typically indulges your "feelings".

Your father (if he's not a beta) will never indulge your "feelings".

So the correct answer is:


  • "Dad was never the one you went crying to... that's Mom's job."


Your father was there when you wanted wisdom and you would return for advice at any age if he were alive. Just don't expect him to coddle you at any time.


  • Mom : Feelz before Reals.

  • Dad : Reals before Feelz


[–]ShadowOfAnIdea 3 points4 points  (1 child)

What's this in reference to? Only action OP is taking w.r.t. OP's dad is asking for advice.

[–]NeoreactionSafe 4 points5 points  (0 children)


I'm saying if you aren't crying to your father about the injustices of the word but are asking advice in a rational manner that it is okay.

Basically a masculine male must "Kill the Beta" which was when you went to mommy and cried.


  • "There is no crying in Red Pill."


...there is only Amused Mastery.

If dad is a great masculine role model then use him as a resource all you can.


[–]tallwheel 1 point2 points  (4 children)

Yeah. Should just change the quote to "live as if your parents are dead".

[–]NeoreactionSafe 0 points1 point  (3 children)


But my thought was that you won't get anything of value by going back to your mother, but your father might actually give good advice.

Most males today have no father so have no option.

If you have a masculine Game aware father who is a wise man and you are on good terms with him why wouldn't you ask a question?

You have to realize he might choose to say something like:


"Well you are definitely in a bind with that problem. I'd say you pretty much have reduced it down to choosing between those three options we talked about and it looks like number two is your favorite, but it's your life and you will have to go with your gut and pick which you think is best. I'm glad to have been there to bounce ideas off, but you are a big boy and can think for yourself."


[–]tallwheel 0 points1 point  (2 children)

No disagreement with that. Mothers may not be able to offer any real help for young adult men, but many of them are all too ready to shower validation and support on their boys, even when what their boys really need is solid advice and guidance.

Overall, young men nowadays often never grow up, as their parents are often more than willing to continue to treat them as children as long as they're alive. Therefore, I think pretending that both your parents are dead gets closer to the heart of what OP had in mind.

[–]NeoreactionSafe 0 points1 point  (0 children)


It sounds like the teenage thing...

Ignore your parents.


Better to honor thy father and thy mother while still thinking for yourself.

But during those teenage years it's often necessary for the child to rebel against their parents.

However... be cautious.... the Blue Pill mythology is based on the idea of splitting the children away from the parents so be aware the Globalist Tyranny wants you young and angry and having problems with your family.

The Blue Pill mythology wants you to run away from home and become the hard working beta male with a female controlling you.

Undermining your confidence by breaking the family apart is the Blue Pill agenda.


  • The masculine man has a solid Frame and gets along well with mom and dad.


I still say if you have a father you should be taking advantage of him as a valued resource.


[–]RustyCatalyst 72 points73 points  (5 children)

Should be fucking grateful you had a father to even fucking learn from.

[–]Xevalous 16 points17 points  (4 children)

He never said he wasn't. What he says has merit because in a sense it's correct. He's not telling people to cut out their fathers, but rather become independent of them, and become a man yourself.

If you didn't have a dad, I'm sorry, you were given a shitty hand of cards in the game of life but you still need to play them.

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (3 children)

As Mark Manson would say, it's not your fault that you got dealt a shitty hand but you are still responsible for how you handle those negative emotions attached and how you handle your own situation.

[–]Trucks_N_Chainsaws 4 points5 points  (2 children)

The weak want sympathy. The strong want responsibility and success.

[–]sickofallofyou 4 points5 points  (0 children)

For the child to come into their own, their parents have to die - Unattributed.

[–]Canarlottle 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I really needed this post because I was in doubt. I'm relatively young but I have felt the "urge" of independence for a couple years. There's this inner confidence that only comes when you prove yourself that you are able to survive without mother's love and father's protection. In modern world, basically, to make a living. I may be desillusional, but there is so much resistance coming from them when you try to detach. I am certain this has to do with my age, but the sooner you take the dive in the raw, real world after you swallow the pill, the more benefit it brings to you.

One should consider himself lucky for discovering TRP, so we should thank our beloved parents for their indirect aid that pointed us in this direction.

[–]dumbkidaccount 3 points4 points  (0 children)

thx for posting.. Nice one

[–]thundar00 3 points4 points  (0 children)

My father died while my mom was pregnant with me. My stepfather died when I was 12. I never had another father figure in my life. I learned about being a "man" on my own and I wouldn't change that, ever. Doing that as a young man in the 80's and 90's was great. The lack of guidance and trust I had in men caused me to learn many things the hard way. Jail, bad relationships, and over compensating to prove myself caused many terrible times. The perspective I gained from those experiences is my most valuable asset. So living as if dada is dead, I don't know, but dad being dead, probably the best thing he could have done for me.

[–]ForWARdTRP 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I'd just say this- I have noticed some very alpha, successful men grew up with their fathers passing while they were relatively young. They had a good base, and then had to do exactly as you say.


[–]petechamp 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Interesting concept which I agree with, but part of being a man is accepting that your dad may still have a lot to teach you

[–]Senior Contributoradam-l 14 points15 points  (7 children)

Actually, you need to live as if you killed your father (and fucked your mother, but that's another discussion).

If you are reading this sub, your father most probably falls in one of these two categories: Either a beta (hasn't managed to work out a functioning masculinity for himself), or a fake "alpha" (has managed to emulate the behaviors that keep women in check, but has not managed to constitute a proper model for his son).

Taking your father down from his pedestal is a prerequisite for developing a strong male identity. If you had a fake alpha dad, chances are he managed to hide his vulnerability from both his wife and you, his son. Because of this, he never taught you how to handle your own weakness. That's quite a big omission in his paternal role.

[–]JeNeSaitQuoi 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I agree with you. there are may reasons why.

the world has changed and continues to do so. Job search advice, forexample, changes constantly. Even in the 2000s, my parents felt that doing things online was the lazy way to look for a job. ie "You ought to put on a suit and just go down there."

Even pointing out that applying online is what I am asked to do; do otherwise would show that I cannot follow instructions ....... didn't change their mind. I suspect that has a lot to do with the fact that no one, even our parents, wants to admit that their wrong.

I can think of a lot of ther bad advice my parents gave me. Some of which they did not even follow in their lives ...... like telling the truth.

I wish I had made the disconnect -- pretending that my parents were dead -- much sooner in life.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

In older times the communty at large also had a big role in developing a young man. That is no longer the case and its not an accident

Almost every culture seemed to recognize this need for young boys and each had specific rituals and activities to harden boys into men

[–]sumethreuaweiei 1 points1 points [recovered]

I thought you were only supposed to keep your weaknesses to yourself?

[–]Senior Contributoradam-l 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I believe that any man who has no buddies, i.e. at least one or two close male friends he can trust with his life, should check himself for serious mental issues.

There is an absurd preoccupation with individualism in western culture, that goes against elementary evolutionary psychology. The truth is that the lone wolf is like that out of necessity, not as an optimization.

[–]JeNeSaitQuoi 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Maybe so. but there is not shortage of advice givers out there.

[–]LucretiusOfDreams 1 point2 points  (0 children)

As Socrates realized, a wise man is he who knows that he doesn't know. And so, seeking the advise of others -especially someone who has your well-being at heart and many years more of experience- isn't unmanly.

What you are actually condemning is having your father hold your hand through tasks that you should be mature enough to know how to preform on your own.

[–]KoroushTheGreat 1 points1 points [recovered]

What age would be the ideal age to become indepentent from your father?

[–]JeNeSaitQuoi 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Be more evaluative in your approach.

Does the advice make sense. In the situations that you're in, has it worked for you? Does it work for others? If yes, can you identify small differences in their situation that makes it work for them.

People who have what you want ..... what are they doing that you might be able to do as well? Even then you have to be careful. Many students brag that they don't study .... when in fact they do .. and ace the tests.

A lot of people pretend they don't want something...... like a job offer,...... just in case they don't get it.

Remember as well, no one takes responsibility for the bad advice they give you. Not even a "sorry." And in my experience, that includes my parents.

[–]Jyontaitaa 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Law 41

It talks about avoiding stepping into a great man shoes but don't step into beta dads shoes be your own man always no matter how good of template is provided.

[–]epixs 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Never had a dad to teach me the ways, so I used my numerous past failures, internet, books, and random life experiences to learn everything I know now today. Was tough as shit and I'm still learning everyday.

[–]Alexinfinite01 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I have been recently contemplating this subject and I'm really glad you posted this. We can only truly grow up if we live a life assuming we have no parent safety net to fall back on. We must stand on our own and, ideally, do so tall

[–]ALPHA_69_COOKIE 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I killed my abusive step father last year at 18 years old. Been on monk mode ever since I'm my own father

[–]harsha_hs 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Law 41: Avoid Stepping into a Great Man’s Shoes

What happens first always appears better and more original than what comes after. If you succeed a great man or have a famous parent, you will have to accomplish double their achievements to outshine them. Do not get lost in their shadow, or stuck in a past not of your own making: Establish your own name and identity by changing course. Slay the overbearing father, disparage his legacy, and gain power by shining in your own way.

[–]dontgiveupcarib 0 points1 point  (0 children)

My father was absent for many years, I learned my masculinity from other guys who had absent fathers as well. It teaches you the harsh truths fast.

[–]atifhere 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I wish I didn't have a father at the first place. Once I got bullied by some boys, I was outnumbered so I took the beating, but still I didn't submit. I went to home to ask my father to help beat them back. I saw fear in my father's eyes, he was afraid to confront them. And he beat me up saying that I must be the one who started the trouble and the guys who beat me up must be good.

At that day my father died for me. From that day I realized that you are really alone in this world and only you yourself can protect yourself.

[–]borntobeanincel 0 points1 point  (0 children)

hats off to men who grew up without dads n still made it big

[–]mylittlehandgun 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I didnt. couldnt ask my dad any of those points raised under "let me explain". He was/ is there for us but in a super authoritarian way which has effed my too this day. Im 24 still living at home and not much going for me.

Im seriously planning the best way to become independent from him.

[–]soviet_dissident 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Joke's on you! My dad died when I was 4.

This thread is pretty stupid. You don't need to imagine (or actually have) your father deceased in order to leave the warm bosom of your mother, learn about the world, and take on the responsibilities of an adult.

[–]Kingspot 0 points1 point  (0 children)

exactly. sensational bullshit. some people just use controversial and vulgar language to unnecessarily dress up shit.

Senior Endorsed contributor above-

"live like you killed your father! (and fucked your mother)"

like are you fucking retarded? entirely irrelevant and just stupid as fuck.

Blue pill- "i need motivation to begin taking control of my life!"

Moron- "ok, so imagine you are fucking your mother..."

like somebody slap this mother fucker. lol no pun intended.

[–]thatguywhatshisface 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Embrace your father, show him respect. But remember this... you are the way you are for a reason.

Personality is learnt mostly. Epigenetics are only going to get you so far. Even if your pops is Chad, if your father/mother taught you bad habits, you will have to unlearn these bad habits. That is why we're here on TRP.

There's always a time to show gratitude and respect to the people who raised you, but don't let it get in the way of your education. Don't do what I did and waste years focusing on their bullshit

[–]Kisstafer1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I feel like I was lucky, because my dad was a great dad until I was about 20 or so, and then I had to pretty much carry on life without him. He basically set me up to be alpha as fuck, thanks dad, you asshole. I got all the lessons as a kid with none of the adult hand holding. He also basically wheeled my mom and my step-mom simultaneously for my entire childhood/teen years. Fucking guy lol. It's sad to see what a reclusive beta cuck he's become in his old age.

[–]s4mpai 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Is this a joke? Or are all of you projecting from your deadbeat dads onto everybody else? So much bullshit atm on here

[–]victordmor -1 points0 points  (1 child)

OP (or anyone who's reading this), I've seen your posts lately and I want to pursue a stoic way of thinking and living. What kind of reading can you recommend?

[–]pugnaciousvagabond 0 points1 point  (0 children)

On the shortness of life by Seneca, the obstacle is the way by Ryan Holiday, also 'meditations' by Marcus Aurelius