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Red Pill Theory4 Rules for a good conversation (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by LfK95

How's it going fellow Redpillers? Recently I've read so many so called Field Reports that basically say nothing about the social interactions that were going on and so much advice like "You have to be alpha!" and "Just be like this!"

However, I feel like some simple "Do this" and "Don't do this" theory is missing in here. Sure, complex theory has its place but I think that especially for newbies, some simple rules might be really helpful, so I decided to make a list of rules for a good conversation.

  • Rule #1 Do not complain This should be a nobrainer, yet so many people fill their conversations with their complaints. Complaints about their work, their friends basically everything. Who gives a shit? Seriously, when you start complaining your conversational partner will just start thinking one of two things. First, "Man you're a little bitch" or "Man, I got it much harder than you". None of these will benefit you in any way or make up for a good talk. You will come across as a negative person. You don't want to be associated with negative feelings. Cut out ALL complaints. This will also be good for your mental health.

  • Rule #2 Do not judge The western world is a free one. Everybody can do what ever the fuck he wants. Now this doesn't mean that you can't have an opinion. You can and you should. You can even voice it and discuss things (we'll come to this in Rule #4) but make sure that you do not judge. What I mean by this: Imagine you are very religious and come to a party with a gay couple. Don't voice your disgust about it. Again, people will view you as very negative and they won't open up to you as they fear that you will judge them as well for something. You do not need to like it but just shut the fuck. Like I said before, this does not mean you can not have an opinion. If there is a discussion going on about politics, philosophy etc go join it and let them know your thoughts! Just make sure not to judge anybody for his.

  • Rule #3 Let them do the talking Like Dale Carnegie said, a person can talk 95% of the conversation and have the feeling that he just had the best conversational partner ever. This is because people get the feeling of a good conversation when they are listened to, not necessarily because of your answers. So let them do the talking and listen what they got to say and throw in a couple of questions here and there. Now, I don't think your listening should be 95% because after a while they will notice that you're basically saying nothing. I think 70/30 is a good ratio.

  • Rule #4 Talk emotions, not facts I can already see the uproar of this sub. "Never discuss your feelings!" Bear with me. I believe that talking about emotions is much more interesting than talking about facts. "Yesterday I got up, walked my dog, did the groceries. Later I went to the swimming pool and jumped from a springboard." Boring. But when they start telling you that they were scared on that springboard, they didn't want to jump down because they were afraid of the fall, maybe because they fell from a tree as a child? Much more interesting already. Your emotions build you as a person, facts do not. That's why it's important to talk emotions. You'll get different answers on the same question from everybody. This is interesting! How do I get people to talk about their emotions? Just ask them! The next time somebody tells you something really boring about what they did, just ask them what they felt doing that. Also, the word "Why" is your friend. "I want to study architecture!" "Why?" "As a child I visited Italy and was so impressed with all the buildings from the renaissance and from there on I always wanted to create something like that myself" Great, you got a nice conversation going. You're getting to know more about him/her, he/she is sharing her emotions and is doing most of the talking. Well done!

I hope this helps out some people, especially the newbies. If you have feedback or advice, I'd appreciate it but remember to stay humble and friendly if you disagree. We are intelligent and civilised people.

Have a nice Day!


[–]gurlreader 63 points64 points  (24 children)

Any good tips for small talk that lead into good conversation starters? Im not good at small talk, like mentioning the weather etc so usually stuck when meeting new ppl.

[–]mravek 77 points78 points  (16 children)

I started having A LOT of small talk with strangers working at the bar, store or sth. similiar. The first thing I ask about is the weather. Most of people complain about the heat (very hot in my country), I reply by giving them my support (e.g. "Well, you have just 1-2-3 hours of work left and afterwards you can do whatever the fuck you want") which makes them smile or get in a better mood. The rest of the conversation gets really comfortable. Just smile and look people in the eyes, if you don't know what to say just look at them, people usually start talking just when you stare at them, because subconciously they think that YOU are the one waiting for them to start talking.

Don't think that if you start a conversation you should be the one leading the conversation, you aren't necessarily an over-communicative person if you start talking with a random person. People will think of you as a good and cheerful guy. And I forgot to say that most of females LOVE guys who listen. That makes them believe they matter to you. Personally I just nod my head and agree with 60% of the stuff she says.

[–]olliec420 14 points15 points  (14 children)

How do you cut people off politely when they start rambling off and its time to break. I need a script for that. Too many times I find myself listening to what I don't want to and wasting time.

[–]valerie_herrlich 20 points21 points  (3 children)

"Hey, it was nice talking to you man, I'm going to keep walking now. See you next time!"

[–]SickSociety17 7 points8 points  (2 children)

Hey, I'm gonna take off. I hope... (reference something that you talked about that maybe you can pick back up in the future, e.g. ...everything works out with your cat's diarrhea issue).

[–]aanarchist -1 points0 points  (1 child)

fuck those kinds of conversations lol you're trying to get to know a person not be their emotional dumping ground or tampon.

[–]SickSociety17 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Ummm... I was more thinking that maybe you asked how they're doing and they said something like, " good except for my cat shit everywhere last night while I was sleeping."

[–]Peter_B_Long 12 points13 points  (0 children)

I'll usually show it with body language. I'll start by pointing my feet / body towards the exit. If they can't get the hint with my body language, then I'll just say, "I'm gonna need to interrupt you, I need to get going, but give me your contact info and we can catch up sometime this week".

It's also extremely important that you don't let them ramble if you don't want to listen to them. If they are talking, just give 100% of your attention and interest for a few minutes or at least a few seconds. Then you can interrupt them and get going. This shows much better charisma and interest in a person than just standing there with your arms crossed nodding your head waiting for them to finish.

[–]mravek 1 point2 points  (3 children)

I understand you, it doesn't seem right to stop someone from talking because you have to go or he/she is simply boring. I don't know really. You can lie that you're in a hurry, or you can just say that you need/want time alone.

A script does not exist. It's simply all about your self-confidence. Why listening to someone who is rambling shit you don't wanna talk or hear about? Just stop him and find a way to cut him off. Lie, be direct or simply leave wihout goodbye. There aren't many other options imo.

[–]olliec420 0 points1 point  (2 children)

A script does not exist. It's simply all about your self-confidence.

Yeah I guess your right. Jordan Belfort's straight line system tells you when to bring people back to the topic at hand (or in this case closing the conversation) when they spiral off topic but doesnt tell exactly how to do it. When in sales you just bring back to topic and ask for the order.

[–]HiDefFX 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That is true that a script does not exist, but having a go to is a must.

Normally, mine have a one sentence follow-up statement, with my second sentence being, that I have to be somewhere (urgency tone, not emergency tone).

Also, try making an observational comment about the surrounding area to get a conversation going, and follow it up with a question.

[–]mravek 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I had a conversation with the guy working at the sales while he was getting me my change. So I had the power just to leave without a reason. If it would be a everday person you just met walking down the street and he would never stop talking, well both you and me have a problem then, bro. :D

Anway, having small talk before going on a date or meet a girl really boosts your self-confidence. After the sales guy I went to the bar, small talked and flirted with the waitress. She said that she had a child and a boyfriend. I left her my number on the bill and left. We are in contact now. Somehow I strongly believe that the talks I had earlier were just a warm-up for me, to have a smoother and better talk with females.

[–]IAmAtlasGrey 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Use emotion and body language together with straightforwardness. Something like "oh, shoot! I actually have to go/stop you there/other cancelation action. Pair the interrupt with an immediate, natural body language to break the conversational pattern and draw attention, and then just say what you need to happen. Have to leave, have to do whatever.

As a script attempt: 1. Conversation gets too long 2. Context-appropriate interrupt (hate to cut you off, sorry to interrupt, and other definite language that doesn't break rapport but does redirect attention) 3. Unwavering body language to pair with auditory interrupt (use your body as an emoji and face-palm or smth) 4. Redirect with maintained rapport

Hopefully the words I used convey the thoughts I am imagining. Keep your eyes open and see how other people do it also. Sometimes you can get good and bad examples. Find ways to tweak other people's fuckups into your emotes.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You need those weekend at bernie's glasses.

[–]Kisstafer1 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I watched a really good video on youtube about this:

https://youtu.be/uG2bBWpeHPM

[–]i4mn30 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Flip out your phone, then "Oh so sorry man, gotta go, urgent call of help from the Avengers.. Gotta save the world."

[–]kombatunit 0 points1 point  (0 children)

when you stare at them

The cops show up, it's awkward.

[–]NihilistMonkey 44 points45 points  (0 children)

FORD

Family Occupation Recreation Dreams

All good topics to start with.

RAPE

Religion Abortion Politics Exes

All topics to avoid. Also avoid talking about rape.

[–]brideboy 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Say whats on your mind. Cut your filter off. Get really good at being comfortable in your own skin.

Your thoughts are your absolute best conversation starter. Listening is the best way to help a conversation flow.

[–]carlosvives 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Questions, questions and more questions. Anything to keep them talking. Who, what, when, where, why and how? And after a response to each try to build them up without coming off as unauthentic.

[–]ElDouchey 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Do you continue asking questions if they don't reciprocate with a question of their own after answering yours? I have a rule where I will ask two questions back to back and if they don't ask me something then the conversation is dead because it seems like they're not interested. If I keep asking questions then it starts to feel like an interrogation which I do not want to take part in. I feel like conversations are a two way street. One question should be a starter to get the ball rolling, if things don't click and the conversation doesn't flow naturally then I try to walk away.

[–]carlosvives 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes and no, each conversation is different and some people like to ramble about themselves more than others. It's all about the mood so if the other person seems to be having a good time and you're genuinely interested then it won't feel like an interrogation.

[–]Rowger00 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Watch Seinfeld, it helped me get better at talking about just anything.

[–][deleted] 25 points26 points  (5 children)

Nice list. It's difficult but important to internalize that most people just want a little bit of validation. If someone says something interesting that you've never heard before, tell them.

"That's pretty interesting; I never thought of that." I try to make people that I like feel smart when they are being smart--it encourages them to continue to have thoughtful conversations with me and that is really the basis of most of my current friendships.

[–]SoulRedemption 2 points3 points  (4 children)

This here is pretty important. Letting someone know genuinely if something they said is interesting, surprising, smart etc. Don't over so it though.

My conversations with my close friends are about 20-80%. I have fallen into that "listener" category and people confide in me a lot but hardly tends to listen to what I have to say. They will either start ignoring or give me half Assed attention or waiting hardcore for me to finish talking so they can start talking again or plainly speak over me. I've come go realize this is because of the character and how I behave and taking steps to eradicate this. However, for long term friends they tend to see it as an offense the way I am breaking out of the perception they have of me. Odd. Advise with regard to this would be appreciated as I am all about finding an effective method.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

There are people that like to talk about themselves and there are people that don't. I'm the latter and will never understand the former. But it works because I would rather talk to someone about their life than talk about myself. Don't cast your pearls before swine, etc. Incidentally I am dating someone who is even more quiet than me and while I'm with her I talk about myself plenty--perhaps because she's intelligent so her feedback is useful and she's my cheerleader.

Ultimately the question is what value are you deriving from a conversation. I have nothing to gain by talking to most of my friends about the deep inner concepts I'm navigating but plenty to gain by discussing their lives--some entertainment and the ability to help them. They, on the other hand, have plenty to gain by talking about their lives because they're largely still lost and talking helps them work things through mentally.

Counter intuitively all of this may ultimately stem from an ingrained or innate narcissism in me that states that no one else is smart enough to contribute to the inner dialogue I am having in my mind--very possibly a falsehood.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

will never understand the former.

For what it's worth, I am the spawn of a First Wave Feminist, and the damage it did to my masculinity manifested itself in thinking I'm an introvert. It turns out I'm not, at all, introverted, and talking a lot, including about myself, is an assertion of my masculinity. I don't think my situation is generalizable.

I have had such great chats with this: "I'd hate to win the lotto. They'd pull my cocaine addled carcass out of the Ferrari I wrapped around a tree in the first six months." This is an utterly true statement.

[–]UnreasoningLogician 0 points1 point  (1 child)

People are likely to have an emotional reaction of some kind when you behave contrary to expectations. That's just the world around you reacting to change.

On listening, and letting people talk heavy shit: there's power and virtue in doing things by choice, but there's no power in the same actions if they are done without choice. A harmless man isn't virtuous, but a powerful man who chooses not to harm is. I think a similar principle applies here. If you're always listening, people see it as common and therefore not valuable. If you're more prominent in a conversation, people will value the moments when you give some of your precious listening time.

(I picked this idea up from a Jordan Peterson video.)

[–]VaginalFury 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Its the same with niceguys who pay endless attention to a girl. She will value attention way more when it comes from someone who gives it rarely.

People are likely to have an emotional reaction of some kind when you behave contrary to expectations.

This why a woman will accept it when an asshole treats her like shit and love it when he occasionally treats her nice.

On the other side she will accept the nice behaviour from a niceguy but will get disgusted by him when he suddenly tries to act like an asshole

[–]brideboy 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Good article. I feel like good, simple work like this isnt appreciated enough on this subreddit. I made a few simple pieces like this myself and never really got the response I was looking for.

I can honestly say that most issues with women can be solved with good communication skills. I believe any issue can be solved with good communication skills.

If you're in the office ans want a raise: communication skills. If youre in a tough spot with your girlfriend: most things can be explained with communication skills.

You can walk a man to water, but you cam make him drink.

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (1 child)

One good point about 'not complaining' is that it is also a major display of weakness, even if people don't explicitly pick up on it.

For example frequent complaining means you have problems (complaining is voicing problems). If it's frequent and the same one then that means you are unable to solve or control your problems. That isn't to say bury everything deep down inside but instead of complaining to others look to solutions.

For ex: "I worked so many hours this week it sucks" could be "X, you seem on top of things. Have any tips to work more effectively?"

Or

"I can't meet a good girl, there are just none left" Turns into a discussion on different types of women and where to find them (obviously more bro talk)

Another reason why I don't like the MRA movement. Yes those problems exist, but we live in the west in 2017, stop bitching

Its also why feminists and SWJs are physically, mentally, and emotionally weak people

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Great points, bummer the comment is so low.

Complaining is the opposite of DHV.

[–]Bear-With-Bit 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Always, always let them talk. "How is/was your day?" Pretend you're a journalist trying to get them to spill the juice on something. Keep on asking questions. Just try not to roll your eyes.

[–]Red-Curious 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Early on, when I was first learning networking, I found the conversation stack immensely helpful. It goes something like this ...

Imagine a nameplate

"Hi, I'm ruizbujc. What's your name?"

That name plate is on a house

"What part of town do you live in?"

Through the window you see some papers and bills on a desk.

"What do you do for a living? How do you like doing that?"

Some kids run out the front door

"Do you have close family nearby or are you here just for work? What's your family like?"

One of the kids is holding a tennis racquet

"So, what do you do for fun? I like doing this. You ever try that?"

The kid throws the racquet at a car in the driveway

"Do you like to travel? What places have you been?"

Someone in the car turns the lights on.

"Hey, you mentioned ___. What are your thoughts on that?" [light = ideas, concepts, beliefs, etc.]


Although I don't need to use the stack anymore, the imagery gives incredibly easy cues to new conversationalists about how to move from one subject to the next in appropriately ascending order. That ascending order, of course, is overridden by context. If she tells you her name and it reminds you of a place you've been, be like, "Oh, Savannah, like the city in Georgia. Great place, you ever go there?"

The basic stack (there are expanded versions) helped me dominate networking events in my career. I owe most of my early success in building an initial law practice to the stack.

[–]JackGetsIt 5 points6 points  (1 child)

I think that if you're really good with number three and you're talking with someone else who has social skills they will start noticing the balance is off and will start reciprocating.

I want to also add one more little tip.

If you get bored talking with people a lot try to steer the conversation to something they are passionate and knowledgeable about. The minute you find that even the most boring person becomes the most animated interesting person in the world; treat the conversation like a hunt and seek game. Even if you don't like stamp collecting or data base security or shopping for cruelty free cosmetics you will at least learn something new.

I try to just soak up what the person is saying and most of the time if you just listen you will find that even pool cleaning or target archery can be fascinating if you make the person comfortable enough to go into the details. Almost all people are interesting if you're asking the right questions.

Malcolm Gladwell talked about this a little when he was on CSPAN

Fast forward too 9:12 for the set up and the critical point comes at 10:26.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zw_cmlvzwlI

[–]Sumo94 3 points4 points  (2 children)

What if you let them talk and all they do is talk about negative things and judge everything?

[–]Isbjornsolo 10 points11 points  (1 child)

End the conversation and move on. Or ask them if they are ok, as they're spouting a lot of negativity. Could be they are just have a bad day, week, month etc.

[–]Gltmastah 2 points3 points  (0 children)

One of the best opening convos is talking about favorite stuff. The other person usually starts slowly, but as time passes, you can see the shine in their eyes. Being a good listener is even better, let them do the talking.

[–]makethemflaunt 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Great post. IDGAF mentality, alpha status and being socially dominant/competent generally has a lot to do with having good social-interaction skills, conversation of which is a major part. Not enough content out there about this.

I know a lot already about how to be good at social interactions. If I want to, I can turn the charm on at the drop of a hat.

What I'm looking for now is how to enjoy it. I don't want to die a lonely fuck and yet I can't stand a lot of the boiler plate conversations that take place. There's the desire to not be lonely strongly felt right next to the desire to not spend time with people and their problems and whining.

Point me in a direction -- a sub or book?

[–]1naMlliPdeR 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Build an awesome lifestyle and enough money that they do the charming for u. Then it becomes just choosing who u allow to participate in your awesome life.

[–]Psychocist 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yup! This is exactly the path I'm trying to follow.

[–]SiulaGrande 2 points3 points  (0 children)

one very important point you left out, never disagree with people. disagreeing just shuts down conversation and forces people to take sides and protect their ego. if someone says something that you disagree with or is even objectively incorrect, just say things like "interesting" and move on to the next topic. this is another Dale Carnegie one.

also, the acronym RAPE is good to remember. never talk about Religion, Abortion, Politics, or Emotional experiences (like personal struggles you are going through). honestly the abortion one isnt as important as the other three, but yeah, you start talking about any of the letters in RAPE and youre sinking ships and forcing people to protect egos and take sides. and possibly flat out offending people.

great post though. talking to people is so much fun.

[–]ajayhemant 9 points10 points  (4 children)

Try a bit of NLP and fractionation for guaranteed results.

Repeat their last three words.It creates instant attraction. NLP is converting emotions to language and vice versa. When we speak in the language of people in their own words, we create am reactions as they originally conceived, using the same word.

This is called mirroring. You can mirror the gestures, body language or whatever. Mirroring last three words is by far the most effective thing to create attraction.

Fractionation involves creating a dual response. You make them happy and them make them sad. Fractionation confuses the mind and as with all hypnotic techniques, this confusion lets you enter her emotional mind, surpassing her critical mind.

Secret to modern women's heart

[–]tom9152 4 points5 points  (1 child)

I could get a hooker for $193

[–]ajayhemant 0 points1 point  (0 children)

$ 1.93! Are hookers that dirt cheap. I guess some misreading about decimals. $1 and 93 cents not $193.

Edit : Oh you went to Indian site. Its INR and not $.

Secrets to modern woman's heart

[–]LfK95[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Very interesting! Any other books you would recommend?

[–]ajayhemant 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Unfortunately most books on NLP focus on autosuggestion to improve your own personality. One Author is Paul Mckenna. Another good resource is David Snyder you tube videos. He talks about seduction using NLP and is quite good. Unfortunately in his free videos you get very little meat. He insists on buying his course ( which is quite costly). But the man knows all. I personally find him a bit boring as most of the times in his lecture he is promoting his $400 web course.

[–]EddieJonesRFU 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Respectfully disagree with #3, unless you're someone who speaks really fast and sounds nervous all the time. Then it would help you a lot to try and let the other person speak.

If you're someone who has grown up on the shy or reserved side, there's no need to do this. I'm thinking of the people who I most enjoy talking to, and none of them just sit/stand there and listen to me talk.

I think it's better to think of it as matching someone's energy.

[–]mikehillfin 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Good points. With men these are all true. In my experience you have take control of converstaion eith a woman you are interested in. If you listen 90% you will become emotional tampon easily.

If you are already in a relationship listening works fine but before that you should talk 35-45%

[–]timdo190 2 points3 points  (0 children)

"Shut the fuck"........ Lol

P.S not tryna be a dick or callous just pointing out that OP missing a word made me chuckle

[–]jamesmagne 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This is a good post.

However, I can't help but feel you contradict yourself. You advise not to complain, but also advise to talk about your emotions.

The big part of getting people to spill their heart out, comes with you spilling some of your own. Or at least giving the impression of it.

Often, that comes to fruition byway of complaining. The smart converser knows how to open someone up by giving off the impression that they themselves are opening up. Complaining, even if faux, is a good way to go about doing that.

Complaining is also a way to control people, and the conversation. People differ in personality; some people are natural born helpers, and so when you present a complaint, they drop everything and focus on you.

I like that you start your post by acknowledging that there's no one-way of going about a conversation. However, I disagree that employing the art of complaint, is something to be avoided.

The truth is, every conversation differs, because every person differs. I like that you give a set of rules, and they're pretty solid; however, they apply only to some people, certainly not all.

[–]stampadbag 1 point2 points  (0 children)

A lot of this great info is in the book "How to win friends and influence people" by who you mentioned dale Carnegie. It is dated but the principles are pretty good.

[–]SPREAD_THE_LOVE_7791 1 point2 points  (0 children)

  • Rule #1: Great. Solid advice and a good reminder for those who already know.

  • Rule #2: I feel like giving your opinion is a form of judging so this is a bit confusing. Any way to clarify the difference between judging and sharing your opinion?

  • Rule #3: I feel like I'm good at this one (yes I read HTWFAIP) but sometimes I feel self-conscious because all I'm doing is asking questions and learning about them. I will find I don't have any stories or things to add and I'm letting them do most of the talking not because it is a smart tactic to build rapport, but because I just don't have the social skills or life experiences to relate. I guess what I'm saying is I feel like the person doesn't learn enough about me when I apply this principle.

  • Rule #4: Also great. This is a big one I keep forgetting.

Overall thanks a lot.

[–]2Dmva100 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Add reframing and deflection. Whenever a girl tries attempting a certain topic or trying to lead the conversation somewhere that isn't to your advantage (i.e. trying to figure out your job) or if she tries to shit test, just quickly ignore the question and ask her something totally unrelated, but edgy enough, to spark her emotions 'just enough' to make the topic of your choosing more compelling than the one she was trying to bring up that isn't in your interest. It's tricky at first if you're just learning but you'd be surprised as to how quickly she will forget about what you were discussing as long as the new topic brings the feelz. Women are experts at this but usually clueless when you do it as long as youre leading. This works wonders with any situation not just women.

[–]HiDefFX 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is a good quality way to get an understanding on conversation topics.

I would also add that the best conversations progress from is grounded to more abstract topics. If you ask someone a more personal question like "what are their dreams and how they are pursuing them", people may look at you a little funny, but you will be surprised to how much they open up to that question. That will also bring very organic conversation.

[–]lululenox 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"At the end of the day people won't remember what you've said or done, but how you've made them feel" This one quote changed my mindset of talking to people, it doesn't matter what you say to them it's how you say it, bring positive emotions to your conversations and people will like you automatically