TheRedArchive

~ archived since 2018 ~

286
287

TL;DR: Stick to your principles. Hold frame, even if it feels like she wants you to fold (she absolutely never does). Negs are overused in my opinion with average women. But when you have a woman who feels like her SMV is higher than yours, it's a very powerful tool. Watch the movie The Goodfellas.


Last weekend I had a first date with a gogo dancer. Perfect body, great face. Not the smartest tool in the shed, but street smart and the kind of girl who's been hit on all her life, so she can smell a lack of confidence or someone faking it a mile away.

First date went well. Ended up making out but she played hard to get. Didn't push for the lay since it felt like it would come off as desperate.

Anyway, she seemed very distant in future messages, wouldn't commit to a time/place for second date. This is where a good placed Neg can do wonders. I made fun of her age (late 20s, no longer 18) and made fun of her bad English. Two things that I had a hunch she might be self conscious about. It worked like magic. All of a sudden she was spamming me with messages about what an asshole I am (in a good way) and that she wants to see me that very night. (the next day confirmed that she was very intrigued by me when I said those things since guys don't talk to her like that).

Some might say it's a good time to deny her and say I'm busy, get her wanting me even more, but I believe in striking when the iron is hot in situations like this, because a Neg is a cheap trick, and it is used to get her into a certain emotional frame that I want her in. She won't stay there indefinitely.

We went out 2nd date. During the date, at two points she shit tested me (first I'm sure was a shit test, 2nd I treated it as such regardless). While we were at the bar drinking, she was asking me to rate the girls around us (which I did honestly). An hour or so later, I mentioned that the girl to her right was really cute. She looked at me as if she was insulted, told me "Don't ever disrespect me like that. If you like her, go talk to her. Go ahead, I won't stop you".

The second shit test was while we were outside of her place. She called me out on some personal information I told her about myself (not giving details here) insinuating I lied about them.

Both shit tests I passed the same way, increasing SMV in the process:


How to respond to rudeness and shit tests

There is much material on the sidebar about shit tests, and there is much more that 1 right way to deal with them. In general I believe in amused mastery. But in the case where the shit test is attached together to an insult or rudeness, I believe the proper response is always being firm and harsh, to show that you respect yourself more than to bend to her frame. It scares them, but also feels like you're willing to drop them and go your way. Peaks your SMV in their minds and gets them wet.

In the first scenario, here she said I was disrespectful and to go talk to the other girl instead. I put on an upset face and said very firmly but in a soft controlled voice "Disrespected you? What are you talking about?". It's very important to understand my tone and body language, and NOT the words I used. If you guys have seen the movie The Goodfellas (a must watch), think of Tommy when he asks "What do you mean I'm funny? Funny how? Like a clown? Like I amuse you?" ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWINtUCshxY ). It's the dangerous, upset but also in control body language and tone of voice that says "nobody says this kind of shit to me. explain yourself". Immediately her response was a nervous laugh and "I'm drunk, I don't know what I'm saying". Again, this also gets her to respect me for being a man, which in turn makes her want me to fuck her

2nd shit test. Exactly the same response. "are you calling me a liar?". With her also nervously laughing and saying "No, no. Just was confused". This was right outside of her place. Once inside, she was as submissive as a little bunny rabbit to everything I did to her.

EDIT Lots of times women do these shit tests because they might sense some incongruence, might sense like you are faking something, might not be sure how much of a man you are, etc. etc. These kinds of shit tests give them exactly the answer they need to understand who you are deep down. And it's one of the most important things when trying to sleep with high SMV women.


Closing thoughts All in all, this is a short FR, and while I don't really do field reports, I thought I'd write this one down, since it shows an effective way to make yourself come off as masculine and shows how to shut down certain things a woman says. But, it requires that you know how to project yourself and how to use tone and body language properly.

Certain movies with very Alpha characters, especially gangster movies are very beneficial to watch and try to emulate. For the actors to come off as sincere in their roles they need to use proper tone and body language, more so than actual gangsters in many cases. Watching them can teach you a lot.


[–]WhorehouseVet160 points161 points  (23 children) | Copy Link

You did not do the DEER: Defend, Explain, Excuse, and Rationalize. Instead you did a pressure flip, going on the offensive making her defend her position. We all know women, they can't take the pressure like men, so she folded like a cheap suit.

You've shown your dominance to her, thus her submission to you, well done, OP.

[–]sumethreuaweiei 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

What do you do when you don't deer? There's a lot of material on shutting up but not much on when or what to say

[–]1naMlliPdeR[S] 22 points23 points  (19 children) | Copy Link

You'd get a better answer if you gave us a hypothetical to work with.

As he pointed out, pressure dlipping is one thing. Amused mastery is another. Agree and amplify works wonders.

[–]sumethreuaweiei 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

True, pressure flips are great but how do you learn them? These are the glorified "witty comebacks" that make you legendary because they're scarce.

Amused Mastery = Ignoring or brushing off, it'll just egg them on

A&A with males will make you look like a clown. With chicks you should use it when you've established that you aren't a bitch, but that takes a little bit

[–]1naMlliPdeR[S] 30 points31 points  (13 children) | Copy Link

Here's a tip: when someone says something, you don't need to immediately answer. There's actually nothing wrong or inherently weak in being silent for 20 seconds thinking how to answer, then answering. Its a similar problem like talking too fast out of nervousness.

Want to pressure flip but dont know what to say? Take your time and think.

[–]NibblyPig5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

A&A's good straight up, the thing that you shouldn't use except when you're established is self-deprecation (and use it only very rarely to surprise people). Never under any circumstances self-deprecate for a laugh, unless you're doing A&A and you take it to obviously ridiculous levels.

For example, you're at the bar and you give the bartender a brief wave to get their attention, and they walk off. Your date shit tests you saying something like "It looks like you don't stand out at all".

From what the guy above said...

defend ("No, I think I do stand out, I'm leaning right over see?") - Full of insecurity, NOPE

explain ("Nah it's just a bit dark in here" or "I'm sure they're busy") - you're boring and can't banter for shit, attraction fail)

excuse ("Sorry, I'll try a bit harder next time) - makes you look weak as hell

Rationalise (pretty much the same as explain in this case)

Then there's self-deprecation: "Yeah, girls always seem to ignore me haha" and anything self-deprecating like this which will get a laugh but will tank your SMV.

Correct way to handle, A&A in either direction: "Are you kidding? I'm the most handsome man in this room, I expect it's made her nervous of talking to me, happens all the time with girls." or "You're right, I'm a freaking invisible midget, I should wear a high-vis jacket so people can actually see me".

It doesn't even matter if your A&A is weak as hell it works surprisingly well. Just be sure not to mix up self-deprecation and A&A when you're going the negative route.

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy Link

[deleted]

[–]Endorsed ContributorThotwrecker40 points41 points  (15 children) | Copy Link

My philosophy on shit tests is that everything should be treated as non-serious no matter how seemingly "real" or "serious" the matter is. If she's playing offended or hurt or annoyed or scandalized, focus on the fact that she's playing, it's flirting, and just stay on the offensive. Never get defensive, never go backwards.

If you really can't think of a response, completely ignore it and move on to a different topic. But if you can, then have fun with it.

You'll see these posts occasionally on TRP that are like "plate majorly disrespects me, had to cut the bitch off! Never take no shit!" and I read it and see what really happened is she was shit testing to decide if he was high enough value to continue to allow herself to be his slampiece. That's it. She was being bratty, she was being a teenager, which newsflash is what happens when you get a chick's pussy wet. They act up and they want to be put in their place.

Old school pickup was on to this idea with the classic late 90s / early 00s move of always answering a BS job when a chick asks what you do for work. They recognized that this seemingly innocent conversational question was actually loaded and an attempt to figure out status. And if you reply with a low status job (or rather, low sex appeal, like an IT worker), then you are shooting yourself in the foot. If you try to brag about your snazzy career you look tryhard. If you lie and try to maintain the lie, most guys will trip up and look stupid. So the answer is "I'm a garbage man." or "I'm an ass model."

If she's legitimately rude, then sure, call her out. But typically if she's just being lowkey bitchy I just make fun of her by saying ridiculous shit, and then if she believes me I just bust on her for believing some ridiculous shit. This is how you set a frame; these jokes and teases and "memes" of the vibe become a part of how she understands the relationship - and you will get her to take the relationship as something fun, light, sexual, and with the right sexual tension.

[–]1naMlliPdeR[S] 9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I like your way of viewing it. Im sure we both agree that there are multiple ways to deal with the same thing, all possibly viable. But it's also true that some are better than others.

I think a lot of it comes down to your personality as well and how you come off. I'm pretty laid back and joke around a lot, and I find that being serious and appearing all of a sudden to be a different person gives off a sense of depth of personality. Similarily, if someone came off as a rather serious person and responded aloofly and amused at a shit test, it can appear as a very positive thing. Like a breath of fresh air in his personality.

Still, I like seeing other people's views on this, ESPECIALLY from endorced posters since I can be relatively sure that what they are saying has merit and Im not wasting time analyzing what a random person said.

[–]calloberjig3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm a freelance gynecologist. When was your last checkup?

[–][deleted]  (7 children) | Copy Link

[deleted]

[–]bob13bob2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

lol tell me about it, so many meatheads in here.

[–]1naMlliPdeR[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

You laugh at it, but getting muscular was one of the best things I've ever done for myself. Not just from how women view me (which is a big plus) but also how I feel in my own skin.

[–]ImHerWonderland1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

The stereotype of people with those jobs is computer geeks that are highly intelligent with loads of money. Think Steve jobs, Bill Gates, or mark Zuckerberg. Not exactly panty dropping.

[–]bob13bob1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

lol, all of those people are panty dropping. too many meatheads in here. in the high earner bay area, where you work is huge on your status. it's known which companies are more picky than others.

a late 20s gogo dancer is not high smv compared to an engineer or IT dude from any of those companies.

[–]1naMlliPdeR[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This is true. But keep in mind, a lot of the time an IT dude or engineer will be seen as a provider by these kinds of girls. When they look for someone to fuck for fun on the side, they won't be looking here.

[–]ImHerWonderland0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Just for future reference, my experience and viewpoints are from early 20's, and talking about girls around the same age. 25 and below in my opinion don't care about that as much as a woman that is twenty six or older.

[–]Endorsed ContributorThotwrecker0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

IT =/= a mid-senior role at top tier tech company or unicorn startup.

I have impressed a SMALL PERCENTAGE of girls - typically your average bay area overeducated nerdy chick here - with my title at a reasonably hot startup. But these guys you're talking about as well as myself are the exception, it's a distorted reality when you live here and you hobknob with PMs and managers and young grads getting 180k+ offers right out of berkeley. That's a small, small slice, the majority of IT workers are A) boring as shit, B) making decent money but not VIP stunting money C) beta as fuck (which is why even despite their high salaries they are underpaid as fuck compared to the finance guys).

IT is high appeal to women looking for a beta bucks provider type male. The majority of my peers including those making more than me couldn't go into a club and pull to save their life - most have average GFs or are single. But I'm not talking about IT as a career path, I'm talking about the associations that girls have with IT guys.

Yes, there are guys like how I encourage people to be on here, who do a lot to defy the stereotype. If you are a decently in shape, confident, socially skilled guy with fashion sense amongst the sea of betas here, you will do really, really well.

[–]InfiniteAscent0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

So the answer is "I'm a garbage man."

What are your thoughts on calling her out? i.e. "Oh, you're just looking for a guy with a good job eh?" or something about being a gold digger.

[–]Endorsed ContributorThotwrecker2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You can do it if you are cool and fun - ideally she knows or suspects you are raking it in. If it looks like you are trying to hide or dance around the question ebcause you're not comfortable / you don't think your career would validate itself, that tactic will fall.

If you already have a good vibe, pretty much anything is game. If you don't have a good vibe going, these kind of answers are a little too confrontational.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Too rude in my opinion, unless you can keep it lighthearted. In my experience, if you can keep it lighthearted there's some complicity and you are already in pound-town.

[–]InfiniteAscent0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

not to nitpick, but I'm having trouble with that use of the word complicity. What do you mean? I can keep it lighthearted with a little different wording, a pleasant voice and a smile.

[–][deleted] 19 points20 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Great post. Especially the part where you left out the 3 paragraphs where you made her squirt from her asshole or whatever.

Examples of shit tests and how to spot them are always valuable. Reading about getting anal on the first date is not. At least, not to me.

[–]1naMlliPdeR[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I mean, I think most field reports are humble brags at least on some level. Everyone likes talking about the hot chick they fucked. Still, I try and keep the superficial details down to a level where it's entertaining to read but hopefully doesn't come off like erotic fiction.

[–]TRP VanguardHumanSockPuppet4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Great post. Especially the part where you left out the 3 paragraphs where you made her squirt from her asshole or whatever.

Different shit test.

[–][deleted] 19 points20 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Perfect responses. I could see myself saying that, especially with those spoiled bratty high smv women everyone wants to bang thats been treated like walling talking gold all their lives.

You're spot on about the way you have to say it. You NEED to believe every word coming out of your mouth with those type of women.

I have a theory that its actually easier to alpha widow those kinds of women cause they never felt that utter dominance and raw masculinity from a man.

[–]1naMlliPdeR[S] 15 points16 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Very true. Although these types of girls will be alpha widowed, it wont be by you or me necessarily. They've had sex with tons of men in the top 1%.

They wont cry if u end it. In their 20s they have many other options of high status, not to mention rich older guys who spoil them.

[–]redvelvet_oreo3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

She looked at me as if she was insulted, told me "Don't ever disrespect me like that. If you like her, go talk to her. Go ahead, I won't stop you".

It would have been interesting to see you agree and amplify on her and talk to the girl on the right of her.

[–]1naMlliPdeR[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Actually this is a great observation. Crossed my mind briefly. Way too risky was my thought at the time. Cute girls have a high percentage of being cold to getting hit on in bars. Would massively lower my SMV if I went for that and got shut down.

Alternatively, might make her upset enough to leave. Keep in mind we havnt fucked yet. Until a woman has sex with you, she still has a lot of power in the form of denying sex. Once you fuck a girl, she knows you've owned hernin a sense and you can get away with a ton more stuff.

Could make an entire post on this matter.

[–]Insipid0252 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

This thread made my morning 😁 thanks bud

[–]Hector_Castillo2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

This is some really good shit. Very, very, very good. Most men would melt in this situation. Did the Goodfellas' scene come to mind before you hit her with the response or was your reaction instant?

[–]1naMlliPdeR[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I've used that tone/bodylanguage combo many times. Comes natural to me now.

[–]Docbear641 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

It's been a while since I've seen a thorough Field Report here, great analysis and good job during the date.

[–]Parusa0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

I have some doubts about this kind of approach from a moral perspective. Pointing out how cute you think someone else is unsolicited while on a date is disrespectful. You wouldn't like it if a girl did the same to you. Making someone feel bad and then intimidating them when they speak up for themselves is manipulative and borders on emotional abuse. Responding honestly if she asks you to rate other women is one thing, deliberate attempts to undermine her confidence another.

[–]1naMlliPdeR[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

You misread it. An hour earlier we played a game rating how cute people were.

In my mind it was an extension of said game.

[–]Parusa0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

No, I read it perfectly fine. I know that that's what it was in your mind but it's common sense that after an hour of not playing the game, no one expects you to pick it up again, as evidenced by the fact that she got upset.

[–]1naMlliPdeR[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I understand your point of view. I tried using it as more of a tease or what not, just something to have fun with. If I got no smile or saw she got uncomfortable with it I'd have backed off.

But she challenged me with her response and I had to give a reply to what she said. I went with what at the time naturally felt like it would maintain the most sexual attraction.

[–]fischbrot0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

thanks. i d appreciate more FR and shit test examples. cheers brother

[–]1naMlliPdeR[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I have more interest in writing about theory. I'll try and put up content when I feel inspired to write something.

[–]Kinghum0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

What are some good movies that you'd recommend to watch OP?

[–]loki_made_the_mask0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Goodfellas is one of my favorite movies. You hit the nail right on the head with the comparison of answering shit tests to that epic scene. Also, have you ever noticed how these old school guys are masculine enough to defuse shit tests naturally? Don Draper from Mad Men comes to mind.

[–]1naMlliPdeR[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Exactly. Movies can be great learning experiences if you know where to look.

Its all ahout how they say things

[–]NietzscheExplosion0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

You sure your favorite movie isn't "The Goodfellas"?.

[–]Luckyluke230 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

thanks, man... I learned a lot from this. especially about tone and body language

[–]Mr_Talent-2 points-1 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

"Go go dancer" and "bad english"... I can only think of Thailand here, where go go dancer actually means prostitute. I hope that was not the case here, otherwise she definitely does not have a high SMV and neither do you.

[–]1naMlliPdeR[S] 22 points23 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

I known you're trying to show me up/appear smart/troll or whatever, but it's really bad practice to put yourself in that mindset. It's literally the opposite of being charismatic. Even if you said this, I broke down and cried from what you said, you still paint yourself as kinda a dick in people's eyes.

There's a right time to call bullshit on people. But this is not one of them. Furthermore I have tons of plausible deniability. EVEN if u were right and she was a 2/10 cheap tranny hooker, its my story I could come up with any lie I wanted and make you look like a dick.

So keep in mind that comments such as this made in real life really reflect negatively in you. Nothing to gain, tons to lose.

[–]truecrisis2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I love this comment because I have this issue. I need to shut up and let people save face even if I wish to help them educate themselves.

[–]Mr_Talent-1 points0 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Notice that I wrote "I hope", leaving room for you to comeback and say

"No, she was not a prostitute. Actually, here in New_wathever_Jersey Go Go Dancer is a person who performs live non-sexual dances. The reason she speaks bad english is because she is here with her group, in a tour and they are all from Romenia."

Then I would reply "Oh, nice to know! I wasn't aware! Always learning".

Instead I'm still left wondering if this "high SMV woman" is a prostitute from Thailand.

[–]1naMlliPdeR[S] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Notice how you come off as rather rude, and end your original comment with an insult.

That's not how you have friendly banter.

[–]Mr_Talent-2 points-1 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Dude I'm not trying to be rude. I'm honestly curious if there is some other explanation or not!

[–]1naMlliPdeR[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

She performs in large night clubs. Think of elevated platform with hot girl dancing on it, and a few of those around the club.

She's a foreigner, and English is 2nd language.

[–]RedPillersareCucks0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

That's high SMV to you?

Jesus man. There's more to SMV than looks; you can say she's a HB10, but not all HB8-10s have high SMV.

Also, the fact you didn't even bother denying makes me think "poor third worlder". Even lower SMV.

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy Link

[deleted]

[–]1naMlliPdeR[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Negs are not shot testa. Girls dont have to "pass" negs. Not a test at all. Negs are a tool used to lower a girl's percieved SMV of herself, in order to make your SMV in comparison appear higher.

[–]_LoneWolf37-1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Interesting read, though what is a neg?

[–]Willkuer_1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

A positive statement/compliment overshadowed by a negative statement/insult used as conditional. It will make her insecure and often lead her to qualify herself and afterwards shit test you. It will feel natural for her but at the same time her emotional investment increases. She is hooked. (Both shit testing and her qualifying herself are great IOI's)

In this example:

"You are an impressively good dancer for your age."

"The way you misspell some words is really cute."

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy Link

[deleted]

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

© TheRedArchive 2024. All rights reserved.
created by /u/dream-hunter