Blue Pill ExampleBetas are dangerous (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by [deleted]

In "No more Mr. Nice Guy" by Robert Glover, he outlines traits he observed in years of therapy sessions with Nice Guys.

  • Indirectness
  • Nearly all actions based on fear of rejection
  • An obsessive deeply rooted belief to seek approval, especially from women
  • That their own needs are not as important as a womans

He lists others, but I wanted to focus mainly on these because they're true in my own life.

A Nice Guy will never just walk up and make his intentions known to a woman. That would imply risk, specifically risk of rejection. In a nice guys mind, perfection and "doing it right" are realistic goals. In a nice guys mind, unless there is a perfect pickup routine to get every girl 100% of the time he won't bother risking it.

Interactions with women set him up to be the friendzoned servant, because he constantly seeks their approval. He implements a covert contract with women he interacts with that thusly states "If I am nice to you and serve you, you might reward me with sex later".

Its precisely this behaviour that ensures he'll never actually have sex. Women are not stupid and are experts at subconscious reading. They'll detect your servile belief system and exploit it for their own benefit and they won't really give a shit about you.

A Nice Guy adopts a complete scarcity mentality in his life. Instead of realizing there are a huge abundance of women out there in your local area that might at least agree to go on a date with you, you attach yourself to any woman you know be it your friends girlfriend, wife, random chick at work etc and become nearly obsessed with them as if they were the only one for you.

Last weekend I got too drunk and ended up giving my friends wife a foot massage, hugging her a lot etc and telling them both I loved them and that they were my family etc. Despite the cringe my friend wasn't mad at all, which is great. The part that breaks me is that In vino veritas proved my mindset has barely progressed in these last few years. I have had a lot of anxiety the last few days which boils down to my fear that his wife will approve of me less than she did before.

The lesson here is it's not enough to read RP books and participate in discussions. It's been said before but to really unlock yourself from the chains of the Nice Guy syndrome you must be prepared to face risk, to cold approach, to practice and discover what works and doesn't work for you.

Free yourself from BP/Nice Guy belief systems as soon as possible. Under those paradigms you are not really living. You are in a kind of self induced mental slavery. I should know. I'm in it. But not for long!

[–]CarnivOre93 581 points582 points  (53 children)

Why the fuck did you give your friend's wife a foot massage?

[–]boyifyoudontiswear 426 points427 points  (19 children)

Marcellus Wallace is gonna want to have a word with him

[–]Danleyson 108 points109 points  (17 children)

But it's just a foot massage.

[–]follow_that_rabbit 147 points148 points  (14 children)

Would you give a guy a foot massage?

[–]IkWhatUDidLastSummer 79 points80 points  (6 children)

I mean, it's just a foot massage.

[–]sc1690 74 points75 points  (4 children)

It ain't the same sport as sticking his tongue in the Holiest of Holies.

[–][deleted] 41 points42 points  (3 children)

You know, I'm getting kinda tired. I could use a foot massage myself.

[–]follow_that_rabbit 31 points32 points  (2 children)

Man, you best back off, I'm gettin' a little pissed here.

[–]i7user07 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Aaaah, classic reddit being reddit.

[–]sc1690 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I’ve given a million ladies a million foot massages and they all meant something,but we act like they don’t but they do. And that’s what’s so cool fuckin’ cool about them.

[–]Endorsed ContributorMetalgear222 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I'm the foot fuckin' MASTA. Got my technique down and everythang, dun even tickle 'em or nothin...

[–]TheSelfGoverned -2 points-1 points  (1 child)

If he is a good friend and his feet are clean, then yes, I have, in fact.

[–]tbonemcmotherfuck 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Because you're secretly gay and want to bang his feet.

[–]exmore 18 points19 points  (1 child)

You can't be ticklin And shit

[–]SovereignSoul76 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Shiiiiiit, I'm the foot fuckin master.

[–]pmmedenver 66 points67 points  (0 children)

Boys will do crazy shit for a few seconds of positive affirmation from a beautiful, high value woman. But you already knew that, didn't you?

[–][deleted] 22 points23 points  (0 children)

I love that this comment got more upvotes than the post. He massaged his friend's wife's feet?? Did I really read that?

[–]nofilmynofucky 98 points99 points  (2 children)

He got too drunk and reverted to beta characteristics

maybe work on your reading comp

[–]InfiniteAscent 3 points4 points  (1 child)

This. I've identified my limit as 2 drinks. Beyond that I am more likely to start doing stupid shit too, and that includes beta behaviors that I'm still very much in the process of getting over. OTOH sometimes it's good to see the contrast in yourself clearly even if it makes you cringe.

[–]nofilmynofucky 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm completely the opposite, the more drunk I get the more I DGAF

[–][deleted] 36 points37 points  (4 children)

I just burst out laughing as I was thinking the same thing

[–]Endorsed Contributorvandaalen 27 points28 points  (2 children)

I tried to imagine a situation, where I'd sit with my friend and his wife and end up giving her a foot massage. I couldn't.

[–]HappyMexican 0 points1 point  (0 children)

...TIL OP's Friend's Wife is a hardcore Dominatrix?

[–]HappyMexican 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah everything was good stuff. I was getting revved up and agreeing. Started to feel motivation to control my life, turn things around and become the best me...

Then OP Gave his friend's wife a foot massage for some fucking reason. Thanks OP.

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (5 children)

must redpillers did not start this way and haven't built up enough experience to hold frame through drunkenness

[–]Cre4tiveUserN4me 26 points27 points  (4 children)

I find this interesting. As I'm the opposite when drinking, I stop giving a fuck what people think... Making holding frame damn easy.

When I was at my most repressed I also drank a lot. Didn't put 2+2 together until I'd been lurking around here for a while and had a big mess to clean up.

[–]majickjerk 14 points15 points  (2 children)

I am at my most redpill when I'm high or drunk. It gets ride of the self conscious junk that always fucks me up.

[–]SecretAsianMan27 0 points1 point  (1 child)

This is the only reason why I drink at parties

[–]metalhead4 5 points6 points  (0 children)

This is the only reason why everyone drinks at parties. Alcohol removes everyone's shell hence why it's so popular.

[–]beginner_ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

True. That makes the post even more confusing.

[–]EndTimesRadio 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Because it means something even though everybody pretends it doesn't.

[–]segagaga 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yeah, everything else aside, if you truly had abundance mentality you would not be trying it on with another dudes wife. For like a million reasons, stay away from other men's wives!!

[–]Smigg_e 4 points5 points  (5 children)

He wants to bang his friends wife. That's messed up.

[–]Squats4urmom 22 points23 points  (3 children)

If his friend has an attractive wife he should WANT to bang her. That's being a man.

Out of respect for another man that holds deeper value to him, he should not fuck her.

[–]segagaga 6 points7 points  (2 children)

Out of respect for another man that holds value to him and is fucking married to her, he should not massage her feet either.

[–]Squats4urmom 5 points6 points  (1 child)

To be fair if you don't push boundaries you will never find our if your buddy secretly wants you to fuck his wife. He could be into that shit.

[–]AncientScrolls 2 points3 points  (0 children)

He might have a foot fetish lol. Some women have a really pretty feet.

[–]1PantsonFire1234 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Honestly when I read about the foot massage and the hugging I figured OP had taken Xtc. That's the only explanation I can give.

[–]menial_optimist 0 points1 point  (0 children)

  • Scarcity mentality
  • Man covets what is most familiar to him
  • In vino veritas
  • She has come on to me in the past (this relates to bullet point #1)

I don't feel your post really adds much to the discussion. If you read the full OP you'd realize I've already admitted It was wrong/cringe and my regret associated with it.

[–][deleted] 84 points85 points  (1 child)

On the path to mastery you will fuck up many times. Embrace it by learning from it. "Guilt, Shame" doesn't serve you. So don't pay attention to those and rather accept what you have done, pride yourself in having done a mistake and grown from it which will aid you on the next step of your path.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Guilt and shame are merely emotional loops which you initiate after having the initial thoughts of failure. What separates the successful from the loser is understanding the thoughts are how we learn from out mistakes, but allowing them to perpetuate into emotions and feedback on themselves unconsciously is how we allow them to keep us down. This is what paralyses us with fear and prevents action. The only solution then, is to experience the thought, observe its lesson, then purge it from yourself immediately.

[–]SilverGryphon 91 points92 points  (6 children)

Just be more direct with your feelings. I used to have shame in showing my true intentions until I started asking my self what's the worse that can happen?

You see two nice girls at the bar? Try and come up with excuse to talk to them. What's the worse that could happen? They might ignore you or laugh at you but I'm sure they will forget about you in less than 2 minutes. Never did I encounter anyone who yelled aloud: "hey check this dude out he tried to chat those two chick up but failed badly, what a loser!"

You know a cute girl who is available? Just ask her if she wants to hang out. What's the worse that could happen? She says no and you remain acquaintances. She friend-zones you and you ghost her. Your life, job and health certainly won't be harmed.

I have been rejected countless times but my job, health and life are still intact and in good shape. Yes I have been laughed at in clubs and bars and once even the bouncers started laughing at me, but they all forgot about the whole ordeal within seconds.

Most of the times women would just engage in small chitchat with you or politely ignore you.

[–]caP1taL1sm 10 points11 points  (0 children)

I'm not bashing even the worst case scenarios you mentioned there, which is "getting laughed at" (I think a more accurate term is berated, which is only things bitches do anyway) but if you are, exactly as you say, direct with your feelings, women will respect that. They will not laugh at you or shame you, they will tell you they have a boyfriend but say thanks. The more up-front and direct with your sexuality you are, the more likely they will say yes if they are on the fence, and the less likely they will shame you if they aren't interested/not single.

[–]mummersfarce_is_done 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I was always afraid of ridicule, yet I've never met anything that would make me feel even slightly bad in my experiences. Makes me question where did that idea come from in the first place? TV and movies?

[–]hawkeaglejesus 3 points4 points  (1 child)

One thing you have to realize is that more often than not the casual observers are silently cheering for you. They've been rejected themselves so vicariously they want you to succeed.

Even if you don't, they still respect you for having the balls to do something they couldn't. And as you said, 30 seconds later they won't even remember you.

[–]2 Senior Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours 1 point2 points  (0 children)

When I interact with a girl, she remembers it. Doesn't matter if it goes good or bad, epic win or abysmal failure, do it and go big rather than go home and jerk off.

[–]2 Senior Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours 2 points3 points  (1 child)

My excuse to talk to a girl is: She is there.

Hi, how's it going? Seriously, that's my opener more often than not. Get her talking about herself and lead her and a bit until she starts thinking about fucking me. Her body language will tell me when that is.

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 83 points84 points  (20 children)

In a nice guys mind, perfection and "doing it right" are realistic goals.

Yup.... this is because women pretend that there is a way to "do it right" that will give the keys to her heart/vagina.

She'll say you need to "read the signs" and "just be yourself" and "happy wife happy life", but on closer inspection you'll realise she's being ambiguous, communicating unclearly, and running her life to maximise her beta orbiters, Chad opportunities and future husband marrying chances. Simultaneously. It's why what they say makes complete and perfect sense.... until you think about it.

Men get caught up in "doing it the right way", never realising what a lie it is. There is no right way. It's a battle. Your attractiveness and resources weighed up against what she brings to the table. You want her sex as cheaply as possible. She wants your resources as cheaply as possible and/or your genes if you're top 10%. Such is the game. There isn't a stable, safe, nice way to do it that benefits both parties... if you aim for this, you'll be trapped in a passionless relationship right from the start.

because he constantly seeks their approval

Yeah, women sense and exploit this. If she gets a whiff that you need her approval, you'll be hit with disapproval until you do what she wants, and then she'll hand out tiny tidbits of approval to get you addicted and coming back for more.

[–]newls 12 points13 points  (1 child)

She'll say you need to "read the signs" and "just be yourself" and "happy wife happy life", but on closer inspection you'll realise she's being ambiguous, communicating unclearly, and running her life to maximise her beta orbiters, Chad opportunities and future husband marrying chances. Simultaneously. It's why what they say makes complete and perfect sense.... until you think about it.

Well this is why these fuckers need to learn to study girls' actions, not their words. If a girl is saying words to the effect of 'you have a chance' but is clearly de-prioritising you, it's not on.

A guy should never have to expend substantial effort to get a woman's attention. Cue the binary-thinking betas asking "what so I shouldn't approach women?" No fucker, of course you need to express your interest to them, but in general she should be responding to your texts very quickly, and rearranging her schedule to meet up with you, because you're high priority to her. It's the Brad Pitt Effect or whatever the PUAs call it.

Women of higher attractiveness have a roster of male orbiters, the 'friend zone' guys, and any high-value man who approaches her, gives her shit with a cocky and funny attitude, expresses his sexual interest, and asks her out without giving a shit, in other words a functional Man, will shove his way to the front of her mental list.

In short, if a woman wants to fuck you, she will find a way to fuck you. If she's being hesitant, flakey, or slow to respond, then find another girl who actually likes you. It'll be more fun and a better experience for the both of you.

[–]2 Senior Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Women of higher attractiveness have a roster of male orbiters, the 'friend zone' guys, and any high-value man who approaches her, gives her shit with a cocky and funny attitude, expresses his sexual interest, and asks her out without giving a shit, in other words a functional Man, will shove his way to the front of her mental list.

I've done this with her orbiters sitting with her, getting farther in 5 minutes than they have in years, while they watch. The more they try to push me out, the more she wants me.

[–]SecretAsianMan27 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Too true man.

From what I've been through, even if you do it properly from the start, if you start breaking frame (intentionally or not) and she "gets a whiff that you need her approval" she will hit you with that strategy, and you're fucked. I find that it's pretty hard to piece it back together once you've broken your frame

[–]hawkeaglejesus 3 points4 points  (1 child)

If she gets a whiff that you need her approval, you'll be hit with disapproval until you do what she wants, and then she'll hand out tiny tidbits of approval to get you addicted and coming back for more.

Ironically, that's exactly how you should be leading your women as well.

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 3 points4 points  (0 children)


Things work best when the man leads. Women don't respect men who are led.

[–]le_wolfe 1 point2 points  (0 children)

your last para pretty much sums up the friend zone...the abode of nice guys

[–]StargateMunky101 4 points5 points  (4 children)

The idea of avoiding being a white knight male is perfectly valid.

But to clarify, the concept of alpha/beta isn't really a thing.

The guy who came up with the theory (derived from observing wolves in captivity) has pretty much spent the rest of his life arguing how he was wrong and the theory is completely bullshit.


Most displays of "alpha" aggresion in humans are more down to a psycho-social stress response.

http://news.stanford.edu/news/2007/march7/sapolskysr-030707.html https://www.livescience.com/4380-humans-baboons-stress.html

Just telling you now before someone later on down the line accuses you of using the wrong term and people stop listening because you have the wrong term in usage.

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 1 point2 points  (3 children)

Alpha/beta as leader/follower - valid concept. Be in charge of the sports team or running a business or even public speaking and women drip for you.

Alpha/beta as high/low investment sex - valid concept.

Thanks for your concern, but the concepts are useful.

[–]StargateMunky101 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Except you're redefining alpha/beta from the classic meaning.

It's perfectly valid to refer to alpha as "parent" because that's literally what it means in reality.

Alpha/beta as high/low investment sex - valid concept

As a cultural idea sure, but it's an abnormal product of a large population compressed into a small space with too much time on their hands.

There is no scientific documentation that will refer to 'investment sex' as Alpha or Beta. That's simply an articficial scenario that we've assumed is the only one, which it isn't.

and women drip for you.

That's not what the leader alpha is there for. It's there for a group to cling to because the parent has the most experience so will make the most valid decisions. You can look at the distorted nature that the "alpha male" concept can bring when you look at companies who throw out team players who don't meant the CEO/dictators prejudice of who should be in the group.

Running a business is also not a valid representation either as you would rationally bring in a large number of experienced people all with relevent skills and utilise them in a group to make more money. You wouldn't force them down to some lower echelon where they are considered less worthy because that just breeds agression which ends up in apes attacking apes...

...which is a psycho-social stress response and not actually representative of a natural parent group relationship (you don't beat your children if they don't perform).

If you compare to nature what an effective group is, it's one that is overly NON-aggresive, NON-competitive within the group, and a lot more responsive to emotional need. When you teach out the teenage hormonal aggression you get a group with a much tougher immune syste, far more productivity and less deaths/injuries from aggression.

Most of the Alpha grouping comes from the confused response to a stranger in the group who you feel compelled to dictate the heirarchy to. This isn't the norm nor is it productive to anything beyond lowering your lifespan through stress.

I have no problem with you creating your own theory of modern day human interaction, that's fine and everyone has their own way of doing things with each their own goals be it sex, ego or whatever, it doesn't matter.

It's just going to cause a massive clash of ideologies though sooner or later if we don't sort out these common terms which people are using in completely the wrong way. I don't expect everyone to respond to this with joy that they've had their world suddenly questioned but I thought I might at least try.

This isn't a criticism of your viewpoint here.

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I think you're confusing alpha, leader and parent.

That's not what the leader alpha is there for.

"there for"? There is some absolute purpose and things have meaning? I can't get behind this idea.

Most of the Alpha grouping comes from the confused response to a stranger in the group who you feel compelled to dictate the heirarchy to. This isn't the norm nor is it productive to anything beyond lowering your lifespan through stress.

So you agree that there IS a hierarchy.

if we don't sort out these common terms which people are using in completely the wrong way.

You are the only person here who disagrees with the use of these terms, so when you say "people are using in completely the wrong way", it's only you that disagrees.

Do you also pull out a dictionary from 1750 and say "look! you're all using words wrong!" ?

It's just going to cause a massive clash of ideologies

I agree with the use of alpha and beta, the terms mean three different things:

leader/follower (of men)

leader/follower (of the relationship)

low/high investment dating


The terms do coincide a lot. Low investment dating is done by strong men who tend to be leaders. And the converse also. This makes it harder to insist people use other terms. I'm aware of the distinctions, but it's clear that a lot of people here are not.

However... what's the alternative? People understand what alpha and beta mean here. If I use terms like "low investment dater", that seems like a worthless guy, whereas it's high value men that need to invest less in their dating. So then it becomes high-value-guy-who-needs-to-invest-little-to-have-sex. That's a sentence where "alpha" conveys most of the meaning and allows me to get through to the meat of my point.

[–][deleted] 40 points41 points  (4 children)

When we were boys, we sought mommy's approval and were rewarded with love.

Betas never learn Act 2

How to love women as A Man, not a boy

[–]AncientScrolls 7 points8 points  (0 children)

When we were boys, we sought mommy's approval and were rewarded with love. Betas never learn Act 2 How to love women as A Man, not a boy

Best sentence ever, that sums up in 3 lines, the reason why most men end up as betas in our society.

[–]MrCobs 1 points1 points [recovered]

How would you describe Act 2 for man to man interaction? What is the man's way of acting around other men? Not giving a fuck and putting your needs first?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Non needy and more the way a father loves his daughter

[–]Endorsed Contributorseattleron 70 points71 points  (5 children)

Yes they can be. Elliot Rodger is a prime example.

Also, a fucking foot massage? Man, you're gonna get thrown out of a window someday for that.

[–]JacksOnJaxOff 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Was that a Pulp Fiction reference?

[–]Endorsed Contributorseattleron 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Was that a Pulp Fiction reference?

You ain't my friend, Palooka.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hmmm, Elliot Rodger, Elliot Alderson, throwing out windows? Is there a Mr Robot piece of headfuckery going on in this comment?

[–]Work_In_Progress92 19 points20 points  (1 child)

I read this book in a single day because right off the bat I recognized that this was me. I was amazed how accurately I fit the bill of the Nice Guy.

And instead of being woe is me about it, I said to myself not anymore. Fuck that and that I am killing the beta within me.

[–]dustyh55 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Same, I see this in myself and it's terrifying.

[–]1empatheticapathetic 16 points17 points  (8 children)

Hit the nail on the head with the oneitises. I make any girl who doesn't treat me like garbage into my oneitis.

[–]mummersfarce_is_done 5 points6 points  (7 children)

You're looking for Mom 2.0

[–]1empatheticapathetic 2 points3 points  (6 children)

Maybe but my mom fucking hates me.

Women just treat low value men like shit and most think I'm low value, so fuck em.

[–]mummersfarce_is_done 0 points1 point  (5 children)

I can't help you through personal experience, but I will shoot with a barrage of assumptions in the hope it might help.

My mother loved me way too much. But I know that we get to stuck in psychological stages where we feel way too good or way too worse. My mom always applauded my performances so I became addicted to that infantile stage. So maybe your situation is reverse, your mom didn't applaud you and you are looking for another mother figure to fill that void; to maybe feel satisfied enough to move on to the next stage. You might even be more drawn to females who you subconsciously understand that might be harsh to you to re-enact your childhood.

If my diagnosis is true, maybe it can provide some insight. But I don't know the solution.

[–]1empatheticapathetic 0 points1 point  (4 children)

I definitely gravitate to women who don't like me but the moment it becomes overt disrespect I leave and obsess over what I did wrong; which sounds pretty accurate to your guess tbh. My nephew has the same issue as you and it's made him into a little bitch.

My mom only responds positively to overt disrespect which isn't my bag until she pushes me there...maybe i need to be more of a cunt.

What have you done so far about it? Cheers

[–]mummersfarce_is_done 3 points4 points  (3 children)

Actually I have solved that problem some time ago. I don't even remember how exactly I did it. Reading on manosphere made me realise things. When I reflected back on my positive interactions with women at the times I was a child and my interactions with my mother in general, it became evident to me that I was getting that praise because I was a cute looking and brilliant child. I was so beautiful as a infant that my mother couldn't move 2 blocks without women interrupting us. And in the case with my mother, no matter what I did she still aplauded me. Thus, I have been disillusioned with the validity of the praise. Then something else clicked too, that I don't need this kind of validation from women anymore. It is enough for me to like the woman for me to enjoy her company. Obviously she is ought to like me too, but not in the way of validating me and my existence.

We also don't really realise that we are big creatures now when we've grown up. When stuck in a childish mindset, you feel like a child even when you tower over most people. I even pictured a tall grown man acting like a puppy to gain the applaud from a shorter woman. What I imagined was comical and unnatural. Then I realised, I was that tall man and this was a comical representation of how I looked from outside. There BAM! I am not looking for the affection of my mom anymore nor did I catch up onetis ever since. Even better, I only focus on me liking the woman now. I completely don't care whether she would like to be with me or not. Because of this attitude, they always seem to like me.

You can be in a place where you can love them in a completely different way when it's like this. This is not beta kind of love where it's "I will die if you won't be with me." Seems like an unconscious psychological trigger of your mother abandoning you really. It's the 4th chakra kind of love. It's more like loving your cat really. You love your cat but you don't try to impress the cat. Same thing happened with girls, trying to impress them doesn't even cross my mind now. Repressing beta tendencies is not the answer, maturing out of them is the answer.

Remember that our personal development is halted by our strengths and weaknesses. Only through mediocrity, we pass unto the next stage. There is a reason why a too compassionate mother is the Freudian nightmare. We seem to be on opposite extremes. Let my extremity be a useful mirror to you and you make your own conclusions. Listen to your feelings and go upon them with vigor using your mind. You need to listen them both to face this challenge.

[–]1empatheticapathetic 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Thanks for your insightful comment. I can't say a lot of this one resonates with me as we are on opposite ends of the spectrum as you said. It's more of a case where I find a girl who is half decent to me (platonic or otherwise), it's such a rarity that I go beta because I want to thank them for being so nice/accepting/attracted to me. It's entirely a choice and it seems like the right choice to me. I reward my male friends with friendliness but with women I forget that the opposite is appreciated. The more I like them the more of a cunt I have to be to them, against my natural instincts. And they like me for it, but I don't like them anymore. So I try to find a balance but I end up with nothing. It's something I'm still searching for my own preference on. Also being immune to women's games, I either don't take them seriously and then drop them or take them seriously and lose perceived frame.

Cheers for your reply, glad to hear you've gotten past it.

[–]mummersfarce_is_done 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Cheers to you as well. Remember that you're not fighting someone else, but your inner demons. Unless you defeat them, you can only put them in chains for so long. Hope you will find a way to defeat them... though I somewhat intuit "defeat" is not the right word for it.

[–]Zack_mx 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It makes a lot of sense and it can be proved as the girls we do not care or we do not like normally are very attracted to us (as we are not needy with them) so normally the opposite is with the girls we want get, it is just stopping it and approach with them normally (easy to say and hard to do but not impossible).

[–][deleted] 14 points15 points  (1 child)

You gave your friend's wife a foot massage? Lol I hope you know they laugh at your ass behind your back, silly ass beta shit right there.

[–]menial_optimist 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah. The next day I joked with him how beta/cringe I was while wasted. I hadn't been drunk in years. I've since decided that I'll never get wasted again in my life. A couple drinks is one thing, but I can't see any advantages of ever getting super drunk again.

I hope they laughed when I left that night.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (6 children)

So, this is not really the full truth. You can be both alpha in how you interact with other people and still beta to her. There are good women out there who have never felt "that important" due to years of emotional abuse due to young men being selfish and self-serving. You can suck up to one every now and again and she'll reward you because you made her feel beautiful. It's really just a line you walk. I know when I'm with some girls, I just drop my voice and act uncaring and they like it. With others, I'll be smooth and let them know I'm into them and want to worship that ass. You just have to be able to be adaptable. I don't mind being used for sex.

[–]BendAndSnap- 0 points1 point  (5 children)

Even when so many girls egos are sky high because of social media?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Onc a girl hits 25, she's a lot more down to earth. Granted some will continue to believe they are God's gift to the world. I just hit my 30s, had my fun in my 20s with girls under 25. Now I'm dating a different age bracket mostly.

[–]IkWhatUDidLastSummer 29 points30 points  (2 children)

What scares me the most is that normal, "what seems to be" rational men practicing common sense are capable of becoming so pussy whipped that they become beta to the core. The biggest mistake you can make is to put pussy on a piedestal, because if you do that all of your actions will reflect it.

Right now im witnessing a great friend of mine practically giving up everything he loves for this new girlfriend, he quit basketball to spend more time with her, he puts all his money and earnings into this girl, even though he was saving up money for new stuff for himself. Like last weekend he showed her his paycheck (like 5000$ or so but why would u show it anyway, keep ur money to urself) and told her that they could go buy more materialistic stuff for the house (bear in mind this dude doesnt give a fuck about materialism, paintings, furniture, if he did it would obviously be way different but this just goes to show EVERYTHING is on her terms because she constantly wants new stuff for the house). On top of that he said he would buy her a new dress for the upcoming party they were attending, great, throw more money at her. You know what the first thing she did was after he told her he was letting her have a dress? She called 3-4 of her friends and said: weeeee [Insert_friends_name_here] is letting me have a dress, isnt he just nice! What a great way to get some further validation for his valiant materialistic efforts and so she can show what a great BB she has. I could probably write 10.000 words about blue and red pill theory regarding their relationship thats how fucked up it is, and this is not just a "special case" because AWALT. She also shittests him constantly - like all the time and hamsters and rationalizes everything.

The other day she wanted him to build a new table for the house, he is not very handy by nature and they dont really need a new table so he was a bit skeptic about it, but then she added: "You are a real man if you can do it and i will be sooo proud of you. And it matters alot to me, isnt the most important thing that it makes me happy? Maybe you get some vagina tonight as well" ...and 2 hours later he was in the clueless process of constructing a table he doesnt give a fuck about while she was out in town with her friends having fun. And i thought this guy was pretty rational and had common sense, because he always talked to me about how ridiculous he found people who hooked up after just 1 month of talking, he literally just hooked up with this girl after knowing her for 2 weeks after she got dumbed by another guy and now he conforms to all of her expectatons. This relationship just consolidated everything about RP/BP theory, how materialistic women are, how AF/BB is true, how bluepilled and pussy whipped some men can be if they get a consistent source to pussy, and how ridiculously solipsistic some women are. This woman is very high maintenance btw and is always hamstering, like last weekend she would call her mom and ask her why her mom got her sister so much for her birthday "mom why is my sister getting 140$ for her birthday she shouldnt have more than 80$ and a bucket of flowers" like can you imagine being salty because your mom gives your OWN SISTER something and you feel more entitled to it. Shes decent looking but high maintenance solipsistic personalities are just a no go for so many reasons, if anyone can be bothered i'll happily explain why by elaborating my point further but i feel like ive just been rambling. Jesus christ its ridiculous.

[–]openoids 2 points3 points  (0 children)

yep...consider that women can be as much of a drug as heroin. Afterall, opiates are just mimicking what your physiology already does, and getting hooked on some girl is a prime example of where the body goes into rapture.

[–]sc1690 14 points15 points  (0 children)

OP stop drinking so much you act like this. It shows major lack of control and weakness in front of women.

[–]Schroef 6 points7 points  (2 children)

I have had a lot of anxiety the last few days which boils down to my fear that his wife will approve of me less than she did before.

Yeah, see, I feel this is what happens a lot with people on here: they think they "lost frame", and they'll work harder on not doing that in the future.

You didn't lose frame, you were yourself. You're still insecure. Or beta, or bluepill, or however you wanna call it. Alcohol lowers the inhibitions, and it made you show your true self.

So please: don't work on 'strengthening your frame', it is trying to patch a symptom. Address the cause: your insecurity. This is the only way to being actually happy and with girls.

[–]mummersfarce_is_done 2 points3 points  (0 children)

So much people trying to suppress what is inside them to not be found unworthy by others. They try to be non-needy in an attempt to make others like them. And they don't even see the contradiction within that statement!

What that mentality, we get "tough dudes".

[–]menial_optimist 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thank you for the reality check

[–]wisty 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Note, that while the Nice Guy is driven by fear and insecurity, they can use Nice Guy Logic to rationalise this as feminism:

  • Indirectness (don't want to objectify women)

  • Nearly all actions based on fear of rejection (need explicit consent before even asking a woman for coffee in an elevator)

  • An obsessive deeply rooted belief to seek approval, especially from women (they want women to tell them they're being good feminists)

  • That their own needs are not as important as a womans (nuff said)

There's probably also redpillers who have these issues, studying TRP really hard so they get it right before asking a woman out.

I dunno though. Does behaviour, logic, or emotion come first? Do people do fucked up shit and have fucked up beliefs because of fucked up emotions, or is it the other way round? Obviously it's a classic chicken and egg problem. Maybe that doesn't matter - it's just a question of which one is easier to modify - behaviour, beliefs, or emotions.

[–]vitringur 4 points5 points  (2 children)

But why are they dangerous? They sound way less threatening than alphas.

[–]NakamuraFan 14 points15 points  (1 child)

They aren't. Women just want an excuse for being interested in dangerous, destructive, non-productive men. It's all a primitive biological desire that they can't argue for within modern societal standards, so they have to make that hamster keep spinning until they rationalize some excuse as to why men who are bad for civilization actually aren't that bad.

l-look! That alpha stranger who just said he wanted to fuck me isn't bad. He is just honest! Unlike that beta guy who took me out to dinner, bought me flowers and drove me home from work, all while thinking that he also wanted to fuck me! Therefore, the alpha guy has treated me better.

It's kinda like arguing that a thief is a better person than a wife, because at least he is honest about wanting the contents of your wallet and therefore he deserves it more. It might sound convincing at a glance, but if you actually took two seconds to analyze it, it will be obvious that it's bullshit.

The problem is that civilization is founded on the idea that good deeds are returned. A man works for his wife and in return is handed sex. But since womens liberation, this has of course changed. Now it is; a man works for a woman, and she has sex with a different guy that turns on her pre-civilization monkey uterus.

Now, the woman of course still want to live in a civilized society. So she has to keep up the illusion that good men are rewarded for good deeds. So she will try to spin the happenings into the good guy being bad, and the bad guy being good.

The entire book that OP read is just one big strawman as to why alphas somehow are productive citizens. Which of course, some of them are, but not the majority and a society cannot be founded on alphas alone.

[–]mummersfarce_is_done 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Without rugged, dangerous men protecting it the society you are in love with would fall within days. As long as you shame manliness and defend society's rules (read whatever influential alphas at top deem as useful) you will never fully actualise yourself. Civilisation is founded on the de-facto idea that powerful people can exploit less powerful people. What you said is a cover. You are defending a sham.

I would really suggest you to watch Jordan Peterson's videos, especially the ones about embracing our monsterly natures.

[–]circlhat 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Nice guys are direct and genuine and they do get girls and marriage and continue to get treated like crap

[–]ScottDisdik 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I'm reading a lot of comments here that are on the lines of .. "Don't feel shame, guilt" .. Nah .. Learn from the cringe, embrace the cringe and you'll never succumb to this ridiculous behavior again.

[–]Wheysteve 8 points9 points  (2 children)

Massaging another man's wife's feet can get you killed...pulp fiction reference

[–]Fedor_Gavnyukov 1 point2 points  (1 child)

if you watched pulp fiction you'd know that only Marcellus and Tony Rocky Horror knew why he was thrown out the widow, also he didn't die

[–]DoomsdayDweeb 4 points5 points  (3 children)

What a load of rubbish the O.P. He's just blame shifting onto 'Beta's for their failings with women. The beta being...I presume... the average guy. Not tall, muscular, sexy, high status?

What about the guys that drive our trams or taxi's, work as our chefs, our barmen? What about us that can never be 6ft tall, high-status, social butterflies with model hair? Do we only deserve whales and dirty looks and mistreatment? How does our society keep afloat when all the lower to mid status jobs with average looking men see no point in life if they're despised by women for not being hot, higher status etc?

I get it; in your conception, women are simply blank-slate, semi-autonomous vessels without agency or capacity to independently reject men on their own level of attractiveness and social status. They reject you... because of your 'beta-ness'. How convenient.

White nationalists would be far better off cleaning house before going on the offensive. SWPL white women are some of the strongest proponents-- and biggest beneficiaries-- of feminism and white misandry / male hatred. They adore it, they revel in it, even the "traditional conservatives." And collectively, they, rightly or wrongly, rationally or preduicially, despise you if you are an average-looking or god forbid ugly white guy. No one is forcing them to act this way, they've been socially conditioned to.

I've been witnessed for quite some time that male 'personality variety' is under threat. Introverts are utterly hated, non-athletic slim men are hated, short men are hated, young bald men are hated, intelligent men that out-compete women are hated and they're seen as misognstic dickwads. We've got to bow down to them and their feminist express train. I've been thinking for quite some time how repulsive the career and id-driven modern Anglo woman is. Nothing matters to her but her own vanity. She aborts 1.6 million children a year. She gets liked 500 times a month for noting more than posting a selfie. That's more than the number of people who die from heart disease, cancer, and accidents combined. If that isn't a symptom of a suicidal society I don't know what is.

A stark contrast leaps into my face when I travel and see women who still realize family is more important than a rubber stamp "degree" from Fill In The Blank University, landing a position as another corporate lapdog and "marrying" herself to the top Chad of the corporation by day, and "whoring" herself to the Chad personal trainer on tinder at night.

It's truly a grotesque thing to see when an attractive-enough female wastes the best years of her life status whoring, cock carouseling, man-hating guys on her own level, and corporate boot-licking then ends up childless and barren on plentyoffish at the age of 39. To hell with it all.

[–]menial_optimist 0 points1 point  (2 children)

It's not all doom and gloom. Short ugly guys being unsuccessful women have a lot more to do with his own mindset than any perceived external mass rejection. I mean we've all seen ugly / handicapped / short / not-chad guys with decent to good looking women. By your rant that is impossible.

We ourselves are our biggest obstacle when it comes to getting what you want out of life.

My post was about realizing this after some cringe-ass display while wasted. It made me focus 100% on changing my mindset and truly begin replacing beta belief systems.

[–]SamuraiPizzaCatz 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I know a guy who is 5' and he has to dumpster dive to get laid because women constantly reject him over his height.

I want TRP to start treating these kinds of things with honesty, rather than doing the male version of 'you go, girl'. I have a dream where it won't be a bannable offense to discuss how

  • Looks matter
  • Height matters
  • and how to combat these by lifting, dressing better, clearing and moisturizing your skin, getting a good haircut, improving your facial hair, smelling good, and being honest with your rating then looksmatching.

I know I'd be an 8 - 8.5/10 if I were 6' instead of 5' 10" and looksmaxed. Right now I'm probably a 6, only because of my shitty hair, beard, body fat, and lack of style, and could probably get to 7.5/10 max if I fixed all that.

Guys on here think it's counterproductive to focus on things like height, race, etc but they absolutely do play a role in your sexual success. If you have no general appeal, find what niche you fit into and go for bitches like that instead.

[–]Cheupez 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I get your general flow on this but it is important to caution guys that being direct is one thing you cannot be with ladies. Ladies, the fuckable ones at least, know you want to fuck them. You can usually make it very clear that you intend to without saying it directly.

[–]1walkingthelinux 1 point2 points  (1 child)

So, when will you be deleting this post? You know, the one where you ended by describing your sickening and beta supplication behavior towards your FRIEND'S WIFE?

[–]InfiniteAscent 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hey, maybe his friend is great big cuck. Maybe he shoulda tried rubbing more than her feet ;-)

[–]NeoreactionSafe 1 point2 points  (23 children)


  • Definition of the word "Nice"


Middle English (in the sense ‘stupid’): from Old French, from Latin nescius ‘ignorant,’ from nescire ‘not know.’ Other early senses included ‘coy, reserved,’ giving rise to ‘fastidious, scrupulous’: this led both to the sense ‘fine, subtle’ (regarded by some as the “correct” sense), and to the main current senses.


So two hundred years ago if you were part of the aristocracy you might say:


  • "Come here peasant. Be a nice chap and take my horse back to the stables and give it a good cleaning."


The peasant is taught that being "nice" means having good morals.

But the aristocrat has inverted the meaning and his understanding is that he is addressing a stupid and ignorant peasant.

The peasant didn't know being a Nice Guy™ is an insult.


  • Nice has always meant Stupid and Ignorant.


At least going back a few hundred years anyway.


[–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (17 children)

Words and their meanings undergo a process of cultural evolution. The definition you posit is even more dated than the rolls on your abdomen. Nice once also meant finicky or fussy, but by the mid-1700s most in the English speaking world understood it to mean pleasant or pleasing; which is its current definition. Every time you try to sound smart, you evince your ignorance. Now, go masturbate to your shrine of Icke.

[–]pm_me_the_best_tits 4 points5 points  (10 children)

i come to the sub once a day to make sure NRS has been called out on his nonsense.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (9 children)

Help me ... I see it as my daily chore.

[–]pm_me_the_best_tits 2 points3 points  (7 children)

i gave up my campaign to have his endorsement removed months ago, but carry my torch and keep up the good fight.

after a while you realize your just arguing with a women, like he went so deep into TRP his logic went full circle and now nothing he says can be wrong because he says so.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (3 children)

I picture him a 56 year old D&D player with bad teeth and the body of a post-menopausal woman, reading the Redpill and pretending his SMV is 10 instead of 1. In his mind, he is spinning plates and smashing pussy when, in truth, he couldn't get laid in a morgue.

[–]pm_me_the_best_tits 1 point2 points  (0 children)

something something:

  • Kill the beta.

[–]NeoreactionSafe -2 points-1 points  (1 child)


Most accurate would be the current condition of John McEnroe:




But my eyes are blue.

Almost totally gray, but little hints of my former brown hair.


[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

So tell us about your weight lifting numbers.

[–]Endorsed ContributorJamesSkepp 2 points3 points  (2 children)

after a while you realize your just arguing with a women

Yes, he has all of the qualities of a woman present in his interactions. Purposeful obfuscation, inability to respond to facts, blatant lies in response to facts, lack of accountability, denial of reality blatantly in front of his eyes, throwing personal accusations in response to criticism to name the most common ones.

[–]pm_me_the_best_tits 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Glad I'm not the only one that can see it!

[–]Endorsed ContributorJamesSkepp 1 point2 points  (0 children)

More and more people are calling him out on his bs.

[–]Endorsed ContributorJamesSkepp 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm keeping him in check too.

[–]NeoreactionSafe -2 points-1 points  (5 children)


So you concede it's correct.

That's all that matters.


[–]Winterwind17 3 points4 points  (4 children)

Give this self declared victory a clap of hands. May the confidence you gain from pretending to win an online argument last throughout your life.

[–]NeoreactionSafe -1 points0 points  (3 children)


I'm actually correct.

My advice is to try some research.

Come back later and tell us what you learned.


[–]Winterwind17 3 points4 points  (1 child)

"I aM aCtUaLlY cOrReCt." Best way to "actually" convince people, ever. Follow by "Go do my research for me."

Btw, if you read what I said again, nothing I said directly disagreed with you.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

He is wrong about the definition of nice and he is wrong for not committing suicide yet.

[–]IkWhatUDidLastSummer 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Thats quite a reach from you there Neo... "Nice guy" wasnt a term that was thrown around back then, at least not in the literal sense but I doubt it was existant in any shape or form.

[–]NeoreactionSafe 1 point2 points  (0 children)




I actually think that Rollo got it right.

The "Nice Guy" meme came from the word "Nice" that means "stupid and ignorant".

It's a correct usage and good meme.


[–]NeoreactionSafe 1 point2 points  (1 child)




The word originally meant ‘ignorant’ from Latin nescius, lit. ‘not knowing’ (from ne- ‘not’ the verb scire). Over the past approx. 700 years, the word changed from a negative meaning to a positive one. But we still have echoes of that earliest usage in phrases like “He’s not very smart, but he’s nice.” And that is more or less how the word changed to begin with. It started out referring to someone unintelligent who may have been pleasant, and then that meaning of being pleasant came about. Maybe young children were called nice because they were friendly but still ignorant, and then eventually that ‘good’ meaning became more salient, and the ‘not knowing’ meaning disappeared, except in some usage habits where we still have that sense of ‘but they’re nice’. (Note that originally, though, it would have been and, not but. Not a contrast to ‘ignorant’, just a restating.)


So we say:


  • "He's a beta... he's a Nice Guy™... he's not Red Pill aware."


[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

In current usage, there is no connection to nice and ignorant or dumb. Perhaps you are too dumb to realize the the meaning of words evolve. You are obviously not smart, and probably not nice.

[–]ranigma 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Is cold approaching the only way to make progress here? Even a little bit? Im at the bottom of the barrel here.

[–]mummersfarce_is_done 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Work on your inner game. By that I mean resolve your physchological issues you do have (we all have them). Embrace your shadows and become more united. You will carry yourself differently and girls will sniff it a mile away. Then you will feel somewhat guilty for not approaching because that girl over there was subtly inviting you so desperately. Though after a while, you will not give a fuck about that as well.

[–]spcarlin 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's good you're honest with yourself, like they say, the first step to solving a problem is knowing you have one. Writing it out helps too, makes it real, just remember to write down some good things about yourself too, don't only look at your bad habits, like the fact you're willing to recognise your own faults

[–]shakespeareSMG 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sounds like you could have sex with her. Depends on how much you value your friendship. Foot massages are intimate.

Hypergamy--of course--and that is one of the most erotic points to touch on a woman. There is this one spot that activates her arousal like a button.

[–]mdcrubengonza 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Some women will not be interested in you. Like I am sure a woman who is the equivalent of Shrek will not garner any attraction from you. Avoiding the friendzone by developing a "strong frame" and "not giving a fuck" will have been for not if your target is a super model that is CLEARLY outside of your dating range.

Sometimes TRP advocates things that are clearly facetious for the sake of deception.

[–]2Dmva100 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Betas are dangerous, and odds are, your DA and local officers are all beta. Even if they were Alpha, they probably wouldn't have the balls, or the reason really, to stick up for you for the sake of their ego investments.

[–]lmfaoneckbeards 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What the fuck did I just read? You are not suited to give 'alpha' advice. You are clearly some middle aged Beta who thinks posting on this sub will somehow alleviate his obvious symptoms of discontent.

[–]human_bean_ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Beta is just a strategy. Being a sneaky backstabbing fucker, putting up a fake veneer, will often work a lot better than being honest, direct and straight forward.

[–]Shaman6624 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yesterday I was home while my girl was working so I did some cleaning and housework. In the evening she annoyed me so I cut off contact for the evening. Then I couldn't help but feel a little betrayed because I did so much for the household that day and I felt like she still didn't respect me. So I also still have some nice guy connections in my head I guess. But isn't it normal to expect someone to show respect if you lead through action and help move the household forward.

[–]Redpillbrigade17 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Yeah stop posting shit and over analyzing- go DO. Keep a track record if you want and make it a game. You will become good at it and laugh at your own self and how much of a newbie you were. There is no other way. Go do. Go approach. Go fail. That's how you grow.

[–]1PantsonFire1234 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I find that I always have issues with beta males or men with beta traits comparable to women. Meanwhile the most alpha guys I know I have zero problems with. Alpha men are a breath of fresh air and should be savored.

[–]PinHunter65 -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

Why bother approach when you'll just be rejected? No one wants to go whaling.