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ScienceTestosterone Is Decreasing by 1.1% Per Year - The Science Of Why and How To Stop It (ISC's Science Discussion Series 1) (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by 2InvoluntarySickCunt

Purpose: Testosterone is steadily declining in an age-independent manner in Western men. A growing subset of TRP and the scientific community is becoming increasing concerned by this downward trend's consistency. In this essay we're going to take a look at the evidence for this trend's existence, explore where it surfaced, and talk about some possible solutions. Luckily, none of the solutions will involve eating a mysteriously named African root that's going to make your dick stop working.


Preface

This is the first in a series of posts which aim to facilitate community discussion of Mens' issues from a scientific perspective. You will be presented the relevant evidence, followed by my own speculation and thoughts. Regrettably, some articles can only be accessed with University credentials (paywall), so I'll quote the relevant information in addition to citing the source. I encourage everyone who can to play along at home.


Shit, This is Actually Happening...

So you've likely heard that sperm counts and testosterone have taken a nose dive (sometimes cited as up to 50%!) in the last 2 decades in Western men. Is this just an excuse by your 35 year-old single mother landlord to justify why "there's no good men left"? Unfortunately not. The claim arises from a landmark study, "A Population-Level Decline in Serum Testosterone Levels in American Men" by Travison et al [1]. Although research on this subject is sparse, this study is rock solid as I will explain briefly.

First, however, let's review testosterone in the biological context!


Endocrine Glands and Really Big Hands (I assure you there's no problem.)

The cells of the body exist over a large spatial area and, much like the workers of Tampon-Corp (for which I am a shill), have to find a way to communicate. If the CEO lives in the brain, or more accurately the hypothalamus and pituitary gland in this case, then he has to evolve multiple methods of information dispersal covering varying distances. If he wants to tell the cell next to him "You're fired!", it's simple, all he has to do is bleb some signaling molecules in that direction that binds the "fuck off" receptor. This type of cell communication is called paracrine and only affects local cells.

However, lets say the boss wants to tell the dick cell (technical term) to proliferate or grow so the brain can swing around a 3rd leg. In that case his message needs to travel a long way, ideally using a fast moving liquid highway like the blood stream. To accomplish this the master regulator of the brain, the hypothalamus, will send the pituitary gland cell some Gonadotropin-Releasing Hormone (GnRH), and the pituitary will then release two molecules known as Leutinizing Hormone (LH) and Follicle-Stimulating Hormone (FSH) into the blood stream. These bad boys will circulate throughout the body, eventually reaching the Leydig cells of the gonads causing the production and export of testosterone into your body. This phenomenon is known as a signaling cascade, and to be specific you've just learned about the Hypothalamic-Pituitary-Gonadal Axis (HPG Axis). Nice job, you now know more about the body than 90% of pre-med students.

Now hormones are exclusively signaling molecules and there's many complicated interactions wherein hormones trigger other glands to release a secondary hormone like above. Two of these derivative molecules are, of course, the sex hormones Testosterone and Estradial. Let's forget about estradiol for now because it makes you grow big, milky jugs.

Testosterone is a cholesterol-derived steroid hormone, meaning it has a very specific structure that allows it to pass through cell membranes, and this allows it to act on nearly every cell in the body, ultimately manifesting itself as the traits associated with sexual dimorphism. Side note: men and women respond to the molecule differently because they have different distributions of androgen receptors on their cells.

Now, Testosterone doesn't just float around in your body interacting with everything like Chad at the club. After it's synthesis in the Leydig cells of the balls, testosterone hops a ride on the protein components of the blood. A bit less than 1/3 becomes bound to serum albumin, while the other 2/3 hooks up with creatively named sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG), with about 2% of testosterone remaining unbound and free in the blood - known as free testosterone, which has the ability to enter into cells and act [2].

Now that we know how testosterone exists in the blood we'll be able to better understand how it's measured. Keep this in mind because different papers use different metrics like:

  1. Bioavaliable Test - same as free test, 2% of total
  2. Total Test - free test + test bound to serum albumin and SHBG

The Landmark Study

Travison, et al. conducted a longitudinal study on 1532 men living in Boston (so we already know their test will be lower than typical ayyy). A longitudinal study is when the same group of men (referred to as a cohort), provides multiple data points over some time course t. In this case, each patient had their serum (total) testosterone and free testosterone measured at 3 periods over the course of about 25 years from 1987-2003.

Now naturally, as you know, testosterone declines as age increases. However, by cleverly utilizing a longitudinal approach to this study the researchers were able to compare different subjects' T levels at the same chronological age. In addition, Travison, et al. trimmed the sample data to reduce individuals with absurdly low or high test (under 100ng/dl or more than 1200ng/dl, respectively), and utilized self-reported metrics of health to further weed out men who developed prostate cancers or other abnormalities that may contribute to changes in T levels.

Metrics used are as follows:

  1. Age
  2. Chronic illnesses including Cancer, Heart disease, Diabetes, etc.
  3. Depression
  4. Prescription meds (by number - an unfortunant weakness of this study)
  5. Education, Marital Status, and Socioeconomic Status
  6. Weight, BMI, and hip-to-waist ratio
  7. Cigarette smoking
  8. Dietary intake (in cals & as grams fat/day)
  9. Sedentary Activity (metric not specified here)

Results

After deconvoluting that wealth of data and working some statistical black magic, the researchers end up reporting the following metrics.

Each year past 55 due to aging T levels were reduced by 1.6%. When adjusted for all of the above self-report metrics the rate was a decrease of 1.1% / year.

Each year for the past 20 years, the T levels of men decreased 1.2% in an age-independent manner, adjusted for above metrics resulted in a reduction of 1.0% / year.

What this means is that testosterone in the men of this cohort was decreasing as fast (roughly speaking) from an unknown source as from regular aging. This is scary stuff my dudes. Now remember how we listed off those metrics? Well we did that because the age-independent T decrease is likely coming from a source other than those listed.

As an interesting aside, in my estimation it seems pretty clear that peoples conformation to those self-reported metrics accounted for a decrease of about 0.5% annually. Might be worth thinking about.

So now that we have taken a look at the data, it's time to speculate what could actually be causing this population-level T decrease. In my last thread many people voiced their concerns and theories about this, ranging from big brother "turning the frickin' frogs gay" for population control to the role that a sedentary lifestyle might play (sitting on your balls all day ain't too great for them. Look up cyclists sperm counts if you're interested).

All of the following speculation and data was found by querying Gulag Scholar with the terms: "Testosterone Decrease, Population Testosterone Trends, Sex Hormone Trends", among other similar variations, with a filter excluding any results published prior to 1990.


Metabolic Syndrome - Eat Like Shit, Feel Like Shit

One oversight of the Travison, et al. study was that they used Diabetes as a variable in their data but left out metabolic syndrome, also known as pre-diabetes. Pitteloud, et al. conducted a study in 2005 looking at insulin sensitivity (a metric of metabolic syndrome) in men aged 25-65 years old, as well as the functioning of their HPG axis, and subsequently, serum T. The researchers also looked at the effect the blood concentration of our sex-hormone binding protein fraction (SHPG) had on total T.

Pitteloud, et al. ultimately reported a SHBG and BMI-independent correlation between serum T levels and insulin sensitivity, where if you're less pre-diabetic then your T is higher. [3]

Furthermore, by administering a hormone that stimulated Leydig cell production of T, the study excluded some elements of the HPG axis including the roles of leutinizing hormone and GnRH. Corroberating this study is another, Kaplan, et al, that found an extremely strong correlation between BMI, metabolic syndrome, and decreased T levels - again independent of LH and GnRH [4]. If there is interest we can address insulin sensitivity and how to increase it in another post, as it warrants its own discussion and presentation.


Miscellaneous Other Things That Affect T

Alcohol Abuse

Yup. Ethanol is a testicular toxin my dudes, and it's actually a double whammy. By the way, abuse is defined in this paper as a history 3+ years with elevated markers of alcoholism. According to Maneesh, M., et al (2006), "Alcohol abusers had significantly lower plasma T with low LH and FSH" (the data shows a reduction of about 25%!) and "[ethanol] causes fertility abnormalities with low sperm count and impaired sperm [movement] in men" [5]. The authors attribute these negative effects to the destruction of Leydig cell function by super-oxide radicals (these are basically products of normal cellular function that have extra electrons and like to fuck your shit up on the molecular level).

Moral of the story here is that if you want to drink heavily for 3+ years you might as well just chop off half of one of your balls.

Fatherhood

Well this one was unexpected. However, in a study comparing 14 men who did not go on to become fathers with 28 men who went on to have a child, a marked reduction in T was seen [6]. Also notable here is that the dad's had lower cortisol levels, which I found quite odd, as well as higher levels of estradiol (female sex hormone). I'm not sure what to make of this but I'm hopeful that some colorful explanations and theories will surface in the comments.


TL;DR and Conclusions

So whats the truth? What's affecting T levels across the West?

In my estimation, the most likely candidate would have to be metabolic syndrome and pre-metabolic syndrome.

I know that everyone wants to jump to the conclusion that the drops found by Travison, et al. are the result of malice or intentional hormonal sabotage, and it certainly is fun to speculate about that and I even welcome that. Regardless, the conclusion that seems evident to me is that many smaller factors are chipping away at our T levels over time, and that currently the research just isn't there to identify all the factors.

As always, I hope this post facilitates discussion of this very important issue. This has been the first post in a series of several posts exploring Mens' issues from a scientific perspective.

Thanks for reading - InvoluntarySickCunt


The next topic we will cover is aluminum-containing antiperspirants and other men's products that may be potentially dangerous, unless some other interest surfaces before then.


Sources - Read 'em and Weep

  1. Travison, TG et al. (2007). A Population-Level Decline in Serum Testosterone Levels in American Men. The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology.

  2. Cumming DC, Wall SR (November 1985). "Non-sex hormone-binding globulin-bound testosterone as a marker for hyperandrogenism". The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology and Metabolism. 61 (5): 873–6.

  3. Pitteloud, N., et al (2005). Increasing insulin resistance is associated with a decrease in Leydig cell testosterone secretion in men. The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism, 90(5), 2636-2641.

  4. Kaplan, S. A., et al (2006). The age related decrease in testosterone is significantly exacerbated in obese men with the metabolic syndrome. What are the implications for the relatively high incidence of erectile dysfunction observed in these men?. The Journal of urology, 176(4), 1524-1528.

  5. Maneesh, M., et al (2006). Alcohol abuse-duration dependent decrease in plasma testosterone and antioxidants in males. Indian journal of physiology and pharmacology, 50(3), 291.

  6. Berg, S. J., & Wynne-Edwards, K. E. (2001, June). Changes in testosterone, cortisol, and estradiol levels in men becoming fathers. In Mayo Clinic Proceedings (Vol. 76, No. 6, pp. 582-592). Elsevier.


[–]TheOriginalWasBetter 112 points113 points  (74 children)

Blast and cruise, baby. But for those not interested in roids, in In my amateur opinion diet and behavior play the biggest impact. To keeps things simple, my rules for diet is lots of animal products, no pre-cooked foods, fast completely for at least one day a week, and the obvious one watch your calories. Overeating because you're bored or to cover up negative feelings is a huge cause of a lot of health problems.

Physical activity and physical touching is also extremely important IMO, and doesn't get enough attention in our culture. Whether it's sexual or non-sexual, people touch a lot, especially masculine men. Obviously physical contact with women during sex is important for bonding with her, but physical contact with men in "combat" is also important for bonding with other men. Play wrestling as a kid and grappling as an adult and learning to fight. I pay attention to touching a lot because my parents rarely hugged me as a kid and I never had many friends growing up so I've had to learn how to touch as an adult.

As a Christian I see a lot of emasculated men in churches, and a lot of them are afraid of physical touch. Even with their own wives. One guy I hung out with one evening recently, he said he wanted to do something nice for his wife because we stayed out late, and I told him to have sex with her more, and he was speechless. He is very successful financially, but I can tell just by his lack of confidence around me and his discomfort and awkwardness with my normal male social touching that he doesn't have sex with his wife often. He's starting to slowly come around though.

I've had trouble finding any research on this, but I think it is a feedback loop. No only does low T contribute to passive behavior, but I also suspect passive behavior contributes to low T. It is easy to find studies that correlate low T to passive behavior, but I've never found one that has attempted to see what changes on testosterone levels a behavior change alone can have. A lot of men in churches seem to think that being nice means not being assertive or being a leader, and are taught from a young age that agreeableness for the sake of agreeableness is a good thing. Jesus was a carpenter, which is physical labor, so he would have been a much more physically imposing presence than bankers or politicians, and he was not an agreeable for the sake of agreeableness kind of person as he often started arguments with the politicians of the time.

Anyway, not turn this into a religious discussion, but with Christian men being emasculated on the conservative side, and SJWs, hipsters, and male feminists being emasculated on the liberal side, and lack of male role models on both sides, I think more research needs to be done of the effects of behavior on testosterone levels. Diet and exercise are important, but barring and severe nutritional deficiencies I think even more important in both quality of life and testosterone levels is learning proper masculine behavior. Guys should be physically rough with each other, playfully insult each other and not need to retreat to a safe space, not be submitting to women for approval, to enjoy healthy verbal debate and not be agreeable for the sake of agreeableness, etc.

I was able to find a few studies below, but most are how testosterone affects behavior and not the other way around:

http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/279/1739/2907

http://www.pnas.org/content/112/45/13805.abstract

http://gizmodo.com/you-can-raise-your-testosterone-levels-just-by-acting-a-1740178167

[–]Kinbaku_enthusiast 50 points51 points  (34 children)

I don't think jesus was very agreeable when he caused ruckus for the merchants in the temple square.

Turn the other cheek is often similarly misinterpreted, as it refers to a psychological disobedience as one cheek is struck for slaves and the other to challenge an equal, thus it's an invitation to be acknowledged as an equal.

But that's just some christian philosophy that I find interesting.

[–]TheOriginalWasBetter 19 points20 points  (3 children)

Unfortunately a lot of churches don't see it that way, perhaps because it just isn't on their radar, who knows.

I recently moved to a new city and I've visited a lot of churches and I notice that churches with a lot of older males tend to have more masculine looking and dressing young males and more action oriented preaching.

Churches that tend to have a fewer older men and more younger men tend to have less masculine looking males and more feeling oriented preaching and more female leadership. Guys who wear t-shirts and not collar shirts, guys who don't have much muscle, guys who won't look you in the eye. Also higher percentage minority as fatherlessness is a huge problem in minority communities.

Maybe those two types of churches would be a good group to compare testosterone levels between, lol.

[–]Kinbaku_enthusiast 15 points16 points  (1 child)

I think the Joel Osteen's of the world aren't really christian and benefit from weak males.

[–]Troll_Name 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You can be a celebrity, or you can minister.

Don't just apply that to one religious celebrity - apply it to all.

[–]perplexedm 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Church now is majorly about Mother Mary than about Jesus.

Because Mother Mary is easy compared to Jesus ?

[–]BullshittingNonsense 25 points26 points  (0 children)

Jesus was a revolutionary. About as disagreeable as you can get.

[–]Future_Alpha 3 points4 points  (26 children)

Instead of being a cucked christian, re-embrace the Gods of your ancestors, be they Odin/Thor, Zeus or Aphrodite, Svarog or Perun. These Gods are strong Gods and breed strong men. These Gods have been long neglected, their temples destroyed, their memory nearly forgotten. And now they are angry and punish men for their transgressions! Now only the valor of men will please them, those willing to fight for their own cause and preservere in the face of adversity and failure. These Gods laugh at the unworthy/undeserving who think they will have an afterlife without earning it. Christianity allows anyone into the afterlife, provided they lick the priests balls.

Personally my God is Crom!

[–]Kinbaku_enthusiast 20 points21 points  (23 children)

One of the strongest valuable parts of religion is that it gives something bigger than yourself and that it allows you to allign yourself with gigantic groups of people.

Worshipping dead gods is larping and more about being a special snowflake with its own unique gender, I mean god to fantasize about.

[–]Future_Alpha 18 points19 points  (22 children)

Worshipping dead gods is larping

Not its not. I study medicine. And one thing I have realized is that there is more to humanity than science can describe. There is a spirituality in all men that must be fed. Spirituality is different from religion. It is unfettered by the dogma of religion and comprises the belief that leads to struggle and success or defeat and hopelessness in men. All men, even the most devout atheists are believers. They just believe in different things. Their belief sways them and sways their thoughts. Christians believe that weakness is to be celebrated and strength abhorred. Liberals believe that being cucked is a good thing and that its somehow mysogynistic to say men and women are different. Some (like Richard Dawkins) believe in the sanctity of the scientific method and can be swayed by any principle that offers 'proof' of itself from an authority or by things that sound nice on paper. Why not then pick what to believe? If what I say about spirituality affecting belief and behavior is true (it is) Why not pick a God or Gods that breed strong men, that make one resolute in the face of adversity? Why not pick a God that favors valor in the face of defeat? Why not pick a God that favors masculinity over the feminine qualities that have invaded the being of many men?

The name, Marcus Aurelius is often brought up on this sub. Marcus Aurelius wrote a book called Meditations as you are aware. He tells people to be stoic, resolute, calm when the storms of life buffet you and to emerge blooded but unbowed. What influenced his belief? What influenced the Stoics that gave Marcus Aurelius his philosophy? The Stoics where influenced by their spirituality and by their strong Gods that led to strong men and strong beliefs.

So no. The Gods of our ancestors are not dead. They never have been. They are alive when the blood of any man boils with lust for adventure, ambition or women. They live when a man does worthy deeds, when he tries to become more than he is. Christianity tried teaching us that being strength and victory is abhorrent, but it is wrong.

I don't particularly care about being unique. I used to care, now I am past it. The belief that the Gods will judge my valor in trying times and even in easy times (as success can often test a mans mettle as much as adversity) is enough to help me move forward. It is psychology. And the 'right' psychology is a crucial component of success. I posted to share what helped me and because I am sick of hearing about Christians that have served to only hold men back.

[–]Kinbaku_enthusiast 9 points10 points  (21 children)

Though it is christian monks that copied marcus aurelius, so that you now may read it.

I'm a practical guy. If these old gods inspire you and make things work for you, good for you. I do not think christianity is at odds with victory and strength. I do not see sufficient evidence for that, and plenty to the contrary.

I agree that spirituality is seperate from religion. I define spirituality as singular and religion as part of a group. Much of my own spirituality and inspiration is a kind of larping that would not make sense to others. I could try to explain, but like dreams at night, they're personal and incomprehensible. Ultimate expression of subjectiveness.

[–]Future_Alpha 2 points3 points  (20 children)

christian monks

Actually it was Arab scholars under the Ummayyid Caliphate that copied Greek and Roman writings. And it is thanks to them that we still have access to the writings of the Greeks/Romans after the church and Christians burned great works of philosophy, science and mathematics for being 'heresy'.

I do not think christianity as odds with victory and strength

You may not think so but that is the case.

I do not see sufficient evidence for that, and plenty to the contrary

That is because you are being wilfully ignorant. Let me ask you, what are the central tenents of Christianity? It is one of surrender, turning the other cheek when being attacked, it is full of martyrs who let themselves get killed because they were too afraid to fight back. It is a story of how they taught people in the massacre of Armenians that fighting the Turks is 'sinful' as all murder is 'sinful' and that the Armenians should forgive the Turks and turn the other cheek. That is not a message of strenght.

Also, the Christians were so scared of people questioning their word that they fought against science, burned books and burned anyone who questioned their dogma at the stake (eg Copernicus) and they burned women who used medieval dildo machines because they liked to be pleasured by the 'devil'. WTF.

n spirituality and inspiration is a kind of larping

That is not larping. That is real.

[–]Endorsed ContributorBluepillProfessor 11 points12 points  (3 children)

Arab scholars under the Ummayyid Caliphate that copied Greek and Roman writings. And it is thanks to them that we still have access to the writings of the Greeks/Romans after the church and Christians burned

I can see you are a public school graduate! Arabs have contributed precisely 0 to world history except death, murder, destruction, and suicide bombings. ALL of the muslim "contributions" (including supposedly discovering the number 0) were from conquering the Persian (and other great) empires, Islamacizing them at the point of a sword, and then claiming credit for the work of the "scholars" in that empire.

Of course that only lasted a generation or two until the population became fully Islamic. No doubt the Christians burned some books but it pales in comparison to the sacking and burning of the Library at Alexandria by...wait for it....Muslim invaders.

Stop lying about your religion; we don't want to hear lies any more. The Koran teaches that anything that occurred in the time of darkness (before Islam) is "Jahilihhahto" which roughly translates as the time of ignorance before the light was "revealed." Even today ISIS blows up ancient Roman and Greek ruins. They even publically beheaded the curator of the ancient archeological site in Palmyra!

Stop lying about Christians and Christ and take the rest of this garbage back to Hell- aka your alcohol soaked 72 virgin orgy afterlife.

On the one hand, Muslims and Middle-Easterners whine like bitching women about the "Crusades" which were a reasonable response to HUNDREDS of raids and attacks and wars on Christian lands and more than a MILLION young white women kidnapped from the shores of the Mediterranean to be sold into brothels and sexual slavery. Now you know why Syrians look so "white." Because they KIDNAPPED AND ENSLAVED more than a million white women.

Then finally the Christians responded to the CONSTANT and CENTURIES LONG campaign against their lands with 4 "Crusades" and today we remember the Christians as the "aggressors."

Now on the other, after claiming for CENTURIES that Christians are warlike conquerors, suddenly Christianity is for the "wilfully ignorant."

Now after Western, Christian armies have rolled over the Middle East countless times you want to tell us how Christianity is a religion for weaklings.

Try again.

You want to claim Christians burned books but Muslims brought us Art and literature?

Try again.

tenents of Christianity? It is one of surrender

Very amusing when the very word "Islam" literally means "surrender." Like MANY Arabic words the name of the religion itself is deceptive. "Islam" also means "peace" BUT in the Muslimism the only way to achieve peace is by defeating all the enemies of Islam. It is a neat trick to change the word "peace" into "war" but the Muslims somehow manage!

Churhill's words ring true today as they did 100 years ago:

How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity.

The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property—either as a child, a wife, or a concubine—must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men. Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities. Thousands become the brave and loyal soldiers of the Queen: all know how to die. But the influence of the religion paralyzes the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science—the science against which it had vainly struggled—the civilization of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilization of ancient Rome.

[–]Future_Alpha 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Dude go read about the Emirate of Cordoba and how the Emirate promoted the development of science (it had some of the largest libraries in the medival world. And it was Caesar who accidentally burned down the library of Alexandria. Nice try but no cigar.

0 was invented in ancient Babylon (modern Iraq), but Arabs did engage in science and where the most scientifically advanced until the renaissance. Read about the Golden Age of Islam.

Also, the Christians won against the Arabs when they took them by surprise after that the Arabs routinely defeated Christian armies which culminated in Salahdin reclaiming Jerusalem for Islam. The Muslim held it for almost 1000 years despite Christians trying to take it back.

For the record I am a pagan and not Muslim.

[–]Thor303456 0 points1 point  (0 children)

For a long bit I thought this was some satire on narrow minded global awareness, not bashing. Actually confused.

[–]Kinbaku_enthusiast 4 points5 points  (15 children)

Actually it was Arab scholars under the Ummayyid Caliphate that copied Greek and Roman writings

This is a myth

I mean, yes they did, but that is not the versions used in europe, those were copied from the latin in the 12th century, not from the arabic, (though in some cases arab comments were used to try to figure out for example aristotles writing)


Your knowledge about christianity itself is poor. Turn the other cheek is not a philosophy of "just incur other's wrath" it refers specifically to a slave and what it means is psychological warfare, as hitting one cheek is how you hit an underling, and hitting the other cheek is the challenge of an equal. Thus turning the other cheek is disobedience and requiring someone to acknowledge you as an equal (when you clearly aren't)


Your idea that christians feared science is similarly misguided.

Judging from the books christians copied from the greeks and comparing them what others like arabs preserved, christians focused predominantly on science and rational thought, and that even helped construct our image of rational greeks,.


Where do you get the idea that copernicus was burned at the stake? He died from a stroke.

You seem woefully misinformed about christianity. What the hell is your source for these ideas?

[–]Future_Alpha 1 point2 points  (14 children)

Firstly, there is no sourcing that I found for where they say it is a myth. I cannot find it anywhere in academic sources.

Secondly, according to Jack weatherford in, 'Ghenghis Khan and the making of the modern world' it was Byzantine scholars who escaped persecution in the Byzantine Empire to Persia (and later fled to Mongol occupied territories (who were surprisingly tolerant to all religions and were promoters of science)) that played a role in saving what writings they could. Within the Byzantine Empire there was not much tolerance for scholars who brought participated in 'dangerous' ideas that could cause people to question the role of the Church.

Edit: added link to book https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/93426.Genghis_Khan_and_the_Making_of_the_Modern_World

[–]Kinbaku_enthusiast 2 points3 points  (13 children)

For someone interested in sources, you sure do put undue value into a book without footnotes/sources.

I have no particular interest in continuing this discussion, but do not mistake that for concession. I suggest at the very least you read some criticisms of weatherford's work, including inside the link you used.

[–]DavidoftheWhey 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I know you got downvoted, but I really like your post.

[–]MushroomTaco 3 points4 points  (0 children)

When i die, Crom will ask me "what is the riddle of steel?" If i do not know, Crom will laugh at me, and he will cast me out of Valhalla!

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Behaviour adjustment has been the single best improvement I've received since swallowing trp. My self image had shifted from intimidated by everyone to confident and assertive with EVERYONE. Words cannot describe how much this changes every thought and action in your life.

[–]Mallago 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Your post is exactly what we need the mens rights movement for. An immediate solution for the devalution and demonization of maleness. An outspoken and public counter to the anti-male narrative is a great first step in psychologically mobilizing the general population to making necessary changes.

[–]WhorehouseVet 7 points8 points  (3 children)

Have to agree with BnC 4 Life. My test level is shit, and the only thing that I'm sticking to cycling is my international travels for work.

Not going to lie, my first AAS cycle was the bomb. Seeing my strength goes up, muscles increase and fat melt away was addicting.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (2 children)

It's all about not jerking off. Even having too much sex. Men these days bust nuts every day, or at least multiple times a week. We're not meant to - simple as that. It fucks with dopamine receptors, T levels, and a lot more. Semen contains vital nutrients and it's not meant to be expelled all over your paper towels and your plate's face every weekend. Sounds crazy, but give it a try. Porn is a curse.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Porn is motherfuckin SATAN

I am on day 20 ish of sobriety and nofap, and it's eye opening. I have sooo much more energy to live/be happy and drive to fuck :)

I'm currently training my kegels for multiple orgasm without ejaculating. Check it out

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (10 children)

I'm an atheist, and I have had lots of improvement with no fap, no porn, no alcohol, no gaming and working out more. I've always felt that the church was too restrictive on these topics. But now I'm not so sure. Now my views are more in line with the church and it kinda weirds me out.

[–]trees_away 15 points16 points  (3 children)

Its because what the church (or God if you want) calls sin are the things that hurt us. I think the church is misguided about the reasoning behind it and tries to make a bunch of rules to impose. But the jist of it is "manage your life well, don't hurt yourself, don't hurt others." Thats a good thing. If you're doing something that is detrimental to your life, that could be called 'sin'. Its less than what you are. Its less than what you could be. Its falling short and missing the mark.

[–]ShrimShrim 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Religion is just a way our species decided to organize, and every organization has social rules that benefit the group.

[–]noaydi 0 points1 point  (0 children)

you arent an atheist, you are a nofaper

[–]Philhelm 4 points5 points  (1 child)

One guy I hung out with one evening recently, he said he wanted to do something nice for his wife because we stayed out late, and I told him to have sex with her more, and he was speechless.

He was probably thinking, "But have you seen her?!"

[–]TheOriginalWasBetter 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Or maybe he's just like a lot of us here used to be and didn't grow up with a strong male role model to teach him about masculinity and sexuality?

[–]cobalt1728 1 points1 points [recovered]

Blast and cruise is seconded,

Living as a natural is a fucking joke. Average sucks. I am 26 and am just gonna stay on and get on TRT eventually anyway so fuck it.

[–]Lordracula 1 point2 points  (4 children)

Sure, die when your organs explode like a few famous PED-abusing bodybuilders we know. The only difference is you'll never be a champion or an inspiration to anybody.

[–]Coptek91 8 points9 points  (1 child)

Complete and utter bullshit. The "roid rage" and "organs exploding" myths from the 70s are complete bullshit.

With making sure the product is pure and that you're getting biannual physical checkups the side effects are minimal in comparison to the benefits for men with low T.

Steroids aren't nearly as harmful as mainstream media has exaggerated them to be. And I doubt he wants to look like Arbold in his prime. Steroids are good for men that want high sex drives, more energy, feel younger, add muscle easily, and feel good when fucking girls. More than enough "glory" for most men today.

[–]Lordracula 7 points8 points  (0 children)

He was talking bullshit so I had to reply on his level, ie through metaphors. The nihilistic idea that your body is going to fall to bits slowly anyway and you have to abuse drugs to make the most of it is laughable at best.

The bodies of these bodybuilders like Rich Piana and Boston Lloyd look like squiggles on a cave wall in comparison to even the forgotten athletes of the 50s, 60s and 70s, and they didn't have even 1% of the science or supplements we have now. Just an interesting observation that we have actually devolved as a sport and art form over the past 60 years.

Also, the myths you thought I was on about are mostly a current thing, steroids were not used as a replacement for natural talent in the 70s nor were they made a mockery of by the general public as they are now.

All that said, my main point was that people are better off finding natural solutions instead of hamstering drug abuse. Steroids are a tool, nothing more, and amateurs relying on them to achieve some kind of fucked-up normality is a sad thing to say the least. Dumber and even more pointless than a 21 year old waving around a crayon without any natural talent, background or interest in the art.

[–]Ratroo 1 point2 points  (1 child)

You're clearly uneducated on the topic. Stop fear mongering.

[–]wanderer779 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I only like folks who are supposed to touch me touching me. Girls who I'm going to fuck, barbers, masseuses, your mom. Everyone else can fuck off. If that means I have lot T then so be it.

[–]NolanHarlow 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Intrigued by BnC, but overwhelmed with the researched required to start it perfectly without screwing myself. Started diving into the reading and found myself feeling like I needed to earn a PHD before I began.

[–]nazis_are_socialists 1 point2 points  (0 children)

fast completely for at least one day a week

Can't do that, I need my protein daily for my gains bro. Do you even lift?

[–]clavabot 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Blast and cruise? What roids are you on?

[–]TunedtoPerfection 30 points31 points  (9 children)

Nice Post, and yes I have a huge interest in anything related to insulin sensitivity. I'm currently the only male in my family without diabetes.

As for the fatherhood thing, not the first time I heard this. I always figured the decrease in cortisol and increase in estradiol was to promote more need for bonding and nesting in the male. What I never understood was how the changes triggered. Because logically your own body can never "know" it's a father in order to trigger the changes. It's not based on ejaculation since all males eventually ejaculate. So it has to be triggered by either the male's offspring or the pregnant female.

This is kinda important as if it is triggered by the offspring, then it most likely some intended by nature to happen. But, if it is triggered by the pregnant female there is a chance those changes are unintended consequence of modern living. It is quite possible if those changes are triggered by pregnant females, they are intended for other pregnant females.

These changes may be a result of modern men being around pregnant women too much. They may have mistaken the requirement of fatherhood with simply being around a pregnant woman for 9 months straight. It would make sense, if we biologically were a social order where men would go out on long hunts, returning with food and celebrations. As the males left for the hunt, the pregnant women would trigger these changes in each other causing the community to bond very deeply. As the men returned throughout the pregnancy cycle they would get a small dose as well. All this could be to biologically bond the community in the interest of the children.

[–]perplexedm 15 points16 points  (5 children)

You raised a very important topic. There are even communities where men were not allowed near their pregnant wives.

[–]Aesthetik_1 4 points5 points  (0 children)

That would imply that unless the male hormone levels are altered by some sort of pheromone/chemical the mother secretes, observing an environment with the 5 senses is enough to cause the drop in testosterone. Highly interesting because it is also said that males in proximity with other dangerous males such as in a prison environment put on muscle a lot quicker, indicating higher testosterone levels.

[–]beginner_ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What I never understood was how the changes triggered. Because logically your own body can never "know" it's a father in order to trigger the changes. It's not based on ejaculation since all males eventually ejaculate. So it has to be triggered by either the male's offspring or the pregnant female.

True and a likely answer is the olfactory system. That would also be in line with the comment of ex_addict_bro. Pregnant female or baby has specific body odor (not actively recognized!) that you detect and the body reacts accordingly.

[–]Kinbaku_enthusiast 28 points29 points  (6 children)

That means that todays 30 year old has the testosterone of a 50 year old 2 decades ago?

Wow. That is quite a lot of difference.

[–]2InvoluntarySickCunt[S] 10 points11 points  (5 children)

Please note that the cohort in the Travison et al study was 55+ years of age. We cannot extend the trend below that with certainty. However, if we suspect that the cause of the drop is environmental in nature then it would be a strong indicator that your statement would be true, if not an understatement.

[–]fromthecrypt8 0 points1 point  (4 children)

So being in my 30s, I guess I should go on TRT asap?

Would I need to be on it forever if I start?

Do you have any studies that prove roids are not as a dangerous as the media say? I see several people here say the dangers are exaggerated.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (1 child)

I wouldn't go on T for the sake of going on T, you will decrease your natural levels permanently and increase your risk of cancer. If you wanna increase T naturally, do manly shit and be a man. Tough activities and confidence increase T. External sources of T increases are onion juice, Zink and being exposed to beautiful women, albeit small increases.

[–]fromthecrypt8 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Actually zinc has given me a few noticeable benefits.

[–]2InvoluntarySickCunt[S] 3 points4 points  (1 child)

This is actually something that I'd like to address in another post. Not sourcing, of course, but harm mitigation and common misconceptions.

On that note, if anyone has extensive experience with hormonal supplementation please PM me and perhaps we can work together on this.

[–]MarvelousWhale 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The topic of TRT as opposed to full blown gym gear has always interested me, I am looking forward to your post!

[–]Desadarius 18 points19 points  (5 children)

My habits: Train 2+ hours a day Eat 6+ eggs per day Chia seeds Ashwagandha Fish oil Zinc Optimen multi Don't cross legs Don't smoke weed (very often) Cold showers Maca powder Have good posture Interact with everyone Kino girls Have sex

Whether or not all of these effect T idk, but that's what I do and I got high T.

I also started modeling my behavior after someone i know who's on roids, and it works (whether it's placebo or not, but I doubt it is)

[–]apathetictransience 2 points3 points  (1 child)

What the fuck is a kino girl?

[–]2CHAD_J_THUNDERCOCK 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Make sure not to eat raw Maca Powder. You have to bake it. All the recipes online are dangerous.

[–]Desadarius 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Never heard that before. What are the negatives?

[–][deleted] 53 points54 points  (9 children)

It appears that TRP has attracted someone with a seriously high IQ and a quick wit. Mods can someone please slap an endorsed sticker on ISC (notice all of the three initialed luminaries in TRP - GLO, RPS, HSP, SPT, PSV, NRS, now we have ISC). Sir, thank you for contributing on our little sub, you are like our very own Jordan Peterson of hormones and chemicals.

As for testosterone dropping in fathers and elevated levels of estradiol, this would certainly explain "dad bods". I suspect you could write a good article about this and it would be taken up and run with by the MSM (Scientist explains the dad bod). You should see a publicist.

[–]2InvoluntarySickCunt[S] 21 points22 points  (7 children)

Thanks for the praise man! I hope to one day reach Dr. Peterson's level of intellect and impact. I think he's given me more to think about than just about anyone else recently, as well as serving as a jumping off point for Jungian psychology. In the mean time I'm happy to contribute from my niche, TRP and the vanguard posts of years ago have shaped my behaviors and mindsets irrevocably and any expertise I can add is a drop in the bucket.

In regards to the dadbod, this is something I hadn't even made the connection to. It would be very interesting to explore a mechanistic explanation of the drop in T, as well as how that drop is confounded by the marriage that usually accompanies becoming a father. Should we be offering T replacement therapy to new fathers in the same way that aging men have begun to adopt it? Possibly, T does have many positive impacts that go far beyond body composition, including marked neuroprotective benefits.

[–]Kinbaku_enthusiast 9 points10 points  (1 child)

Should we be offering T replacement therapy to new fathers in the same way that aging men have begun to adopt it?

Who's to say the more estrogenic reality isn't healthy for the family dynamic? It may help to make fathers more empathic and caring than regular non-father males.

It certainly seemed to have that effect on men in my family that became fathers.

[–]2InvoluntarySickCunt[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

That's certainly a valid argument from an evolutionary psychology perspective. Increased estradiol may increase that bonding and care taking dynamic.

I would argue, however, that due to the advent of society and the feminization of the Western family that a hormonal increase in empathy is likely not necessary anymore. Is TRT the way to go? Well it's purely speculation and the suggestion shouldn't be taken lightly but I think it's an idea that should be explored.

[–]Endorsed Contributorex_addict_bro 32 points33 points  (21 children)

My pet theory is that living with a woman exposes you to all the female hormones and lowers your T.

My experience was that I grew some muscle when I left ex wife and moved out, and changes in my exercise program and diet were minimal by then. And, when I went out for holiday with a girl last year, after a week it was a bit strange, hard to describe. Few days without her and sleeping alone, and I was okay again.

Call me an idiot okay. Where's my tin foil hat? Well, for some reason, there is a warning on testosterone ointment, that it should be applied in an area which will not be exposed or touched by a female. Hormones being fat soluble pass freely through skin. So, for me, there is something... good about loosing female companionship for a while.

[–]perplexedm 9 points10 points  (12 children)

Add to the mix hormonal birth control pills used exponentially high these days.

[–]Endorsed Contributorex_addict_bro 8 points9 points  (11 children)

I'm pretty clean these days, even gave up coffee and aspartame (as in Pepsi light). I find that I am not compatible with girls taking pills. The vibe is just not there, they seem to be pushing for commitment and all this. I don't do that shit.

On the other hand, my current best fuck is a girl who's also clean, fit, exercises a lot, doesn't take any form of hormones.

I think that the pregnancy itself must have some effect on males. Same for pills, as that's exactly what they cause. Hormonal state like in pregnancy.

[–]Senior Endorsed Contributormax_peenor 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Pepsi light

Captain Pedant here, pardon the intrusion. They switched to sucralose a few years ago. It is absorbed and thus metabolized at a far lower rate than aspartame. What does this tell you? If you are debating it's impact on your liver, perhaps it isn't the best thing to ingest. I find it hilarious that there are entire websites with people yelling at each other over if this sort of stuff is safe. You know, guys, why not just have a strawberry?

Personally, I still have some of it, but I find so many pre-made foods and drinks just too damn sweet or salty.

[–]Endorsed Contributorex_addict_bro 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Non-carbonated water is all I need. Unfortunately from plastic bottles but well. Buying things I don't need just because they feel good is pissing out the money really.

[–]1redHussar 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Keto guidelines has nice explanations which artifical sweeteners are shitty and which are fine in really small dosage. Interesting is that even though some of them dont have calories they still cause insuline response.

[–]Coptek91 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You'll probably not be too shocked to find out then that birth control pills tend to destroy women's sex drive.

I've noticed that too. Women on bc pills tend to be too... i don't know how to explain it either but they feel sterile? There's no way for me to explain it either but I'm definitely not a fan

[–]destraht 2 points3 points  (2 children)

My last girlfriend decided to suddenly get a depo injection and it killed the vibe pretty quick. I was pissed as hell when I found out since we had great sexual relations and I knew that it would go downhill quickly and it did.

[–]SolarWizard 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Go for a non-hormonal IUD. It is one of the most effective of them all and no hormones to worry about.

[–]destraht 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Fine, but its their body and sometimes they run out and do stupid things without discussion.

[–]perplexedm 0 points1 point  (3 children)

As for bcp, what do you think about drugs like Ormeloxifene or Centchroman ?

[–]Endorsed Contributorex_addict_bro 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Cool option for a woman, but for a man? Don't trust them bitches

[–]perplexedm 0 points1 point  (1 child)

What I mean is these bcps are so called non hormonal options. So, don't know how the implications be on men.

[–]Endorsed Contributorex_addict_bro 7 points8 points  (0 children)

The implication is don't believe her. If you live together you're fucked anyways, numerous evidence all around trp

[–]PreOrgasmGroanLness 4 points5 points  (1 child)

My pet theory is that living with a woman exposes you to all the female hormones and lowers your T.

It's not a theory and you've both right and wrong.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sociosexual_orientation#Hormones

"Individuals who are partnered typically have lower testosterone levels than individuals who are single. However, this was found to apply solely to individuals possessing a restricted sociosexual orientation. Partnered, unrestricted men and women’s testosterone levels are more similar to the levels of single men and women.[31]"

Unrestricted sociosexual orientation is when you don't mind having sex with someone who you don't know, i.e. sex with little to no emotional attachment. Restricted sexual orientation is when, like me, you feel you need to develop a connection beyond basic attraction to have sex with another person.

[–]Persaeus 2 points3 points  (0 children)

so what you're saying is more hos gives you more gainz.

interesting stuff.

[–]TheSlicemanCometh 3 points4 points  (0 children)

My pet theory is that living with a woman exposes you to all the female hormones and lowers your T.

Sorry but no.

Changes in hormones when a man becomes a father is natures way of turning the sire from a Chad to a Dad to help ensure survival of the offspring. These changes include an increase in oxytocin, which explains the "love" feeling a man has when he sees his son, and a decease in T to make him less motivated to go seek new mates.

[–]TheRedSwordsman 2 points3 points  (0 children)

My pet theory is that living with a woman exposes you to all the female hormones and lowers your T.

A supplement to this is growing up in a family without a properly functional masculine figure with the mother only knowing how to raise a girl.

Beating and scolding a boy up for being a boy works wonders in adapting his behavior and as a result his biological structure.

[–]Sir_Ippotis 8 points9 points  (0 children)

In relation to the fatherhood thing, I'd like to suggest that the drop in testosterone is an evolutionary mechanism that causes the father to become more caring of existing kids, which would give the offspring a greater chance of survival.

[–]S301 8 points9 points  (1 child)

Pussification of men. Plain and simple

[–]_Trigglypuff_ 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Low female contact. I've never been more stoic, relaxed and calm than when I'm courting women (early honeymoon stages).

Stop biting nails, other OCD shit I have etc. Voice is deeper, sleep is better. Even though I'm hornier.

[–]1OneRedSock 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Since August I have been trying to piece together my own post similar to this in regards to the crisis of sperm count and Testosterone in the West.

One recent study I was looking at was published in July this year and stated that sperm count "had declined each year, amounting to a 52.4 percent total decline, in men from North America, Europe, Australia and New Zealand." This study looked at 42,935 men from 50 countries from 1973 to 2011. Note that those from non-Western countries did not show significant signs of sperm count loss. This is no joke.

Now, I need to go through further analysis of data in comparison to these countries and non-Western countries to get a better understanding of the differences of the populations for more clear results. There appears to be a myriad of factors that may contribute to this decline, but one link that I am interested in is the role of social dynamics that may lead to reduced testosterone in Western men which leads to a disruption of the Spermatogenesis cycle that ultimately produces semen.

This is a hard link to make, as we are only more recently beginning to link mental stimulus to physiological changes; however, we do know that testosterone does play a major role in the spermatogenesis cycle. Therefore, how do we link social dynamics to a potential cause-effect relationship with physiological changes within the body? One bit of research I found very interesting is that men with social anxiety, when confronted with -- and submitting to -- a dominance threat have a measurable endocrinological change; notably, their testosterone drops. I wouldn't be surprised if this could explain the rise of MGTOW.

I don't think it's entirely unimaginable to think that submission in a social setting has marked mental affects on a population, which thereby has a relation to physiological changes that may be detrimental to that population. I don't think it's hard to further postulate that social dynamics in the West have an inherent requirement for men to submit to a dominance -- specifically a feminine one -- and that act of submission -- which is notably missing from non-Western countries -- inherently causes real physiological changes that can be harmful for society overall.

If you can give me any of your thoughts on this to help me flesh it out more, I would really appreciate it.

[–]1PantsonFire1234 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I'm constantly physically active since this is a damn near requirement if you have any ambition in the military, as a soldier/warrior and as an athlete in your free time. I've had a my time of drinking, smoking and chilling doing nothing but watching football, playing vidya and eyeing bitches when chilling with friends. Thankfully that time was short compared to the otherwise active lifestyle I've adopted. I sleep well, I eat well and I exercise well. And the most important thing is that I know how to listen to my body. Listening to my body is the number one priority in my life and has yielded me the best results.

When I compare myself after years of Spartan Agogetm with other males who are seemingly 'just as active'/at the gym/outside/club/enlisted. I find that generally there's no competition besides guys who either 1. genetically have insane high testosterone levels (at times they outdo me) and 2. guys who work hard and life the compatible life style like I do.

So what OP says is right. I know guys who keep repeating the government and the jews are giving them bitch tits. While sleeping shit, having a stressful job they get nothing out off and working out half assed or not at all. They either smoke or eat shit to. So yes there might be some small truth to Big Brother experimenting with crowd control and this could only get worse. But it's clearly obvious what the real reason is their T-levels are lower than normal.

Actually living like a human was intended to live will take sacrifices. It will demand things off you society will scorn you for. You might not even find it to be possible with your current job/occupation. No matter the case, know that if you want to fix your body. It will demand the ultimate price. And the ultimate risk.

This is part of being a man.

[–]Mallago 6 points7 points  (1 child)

This recent conversation reminds me of the study a few years ago linking birth control and prostate cancer. Apparently estrogen finds its way into the water supply.

https://www.livescience.com/17028-prostate-cancer-risk-birth-control.html

I wouldn't be surprised to find this somewhat related in some way.

[–]HotN00b 6 points7 points  (0 children)

https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2012/06/03/women-on-contraceptive-pill-should-pay-1500-a-year-more-tax/

too many women on birth control pills; water treatment plants cant filter it out.

[–]ThePounder 7 points8 points  (2 children)

Interesting post. Please do make your next post about the alumnium in anti-perspirant's. I just switched to Certain Dri (12% of that shit) because I couldn't handle ruining all my shirts anymore. I'd be very interested in a post about it.

[–]InfiniteSpur 2 points3 points  (1 child)

No idea of the hormonal implications, but a lot of guys including me have found success using regular deodorant instead of antiperspirant.

My theory is that your body tries to flush out the antiperspirant blocking your pores. It's the aluminum that makes your clothing yellow.

It took a week or two, but after stopping antiperspirant and using regular deodorant I hardly sweat at all.

[–]TheShieldFX 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I have the same issue, , even if I am not taking deodorant or antiperspirant , after 4 5 days my white shirts obtained yellow lining on the edges.

[–]WhorehouseVet 6 points7 points  (4 children)

One interesting aspect OP brought up is fatherhood decreases T level whilst increases E level. It might sound like the body is producing less T than before fatherhood, but if you look at how E is produced, it's through the enzyme "aromatase" where T is aromatizes to E.

I suspect somehow there is a mechanism whereby the body upregulates the production of the aromatase enzyme. If these fathers are prescribed some sort of aromatase inhibitor such as aromasin (exemestane) or arimidex (anastrozole), we would see their T levels increase.

[–]Arabian_Wolf 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Letrozole is one hell of AI, it crushes the levels of Estradiol like there's no tomorrow.

I have manboobs that didn't go much with dieting and exercising so plan to use it but still hesitating.

[–]WhorehouseVet 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Puberty gyno? Might not be easy to get rid of. Look into 20mg nolvadex ED, or 120mg raloxifene ED (half am, half pm) until reduction. Might take a month or so to see difference, or not.

Both are SERMS, so won't crash your estro.

[–]Arabian_Wolf 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I'm leaning toward Raloxifene.

Mine are mostly jiggly fat, but pretty stubborn kind.

Got them pre-puberty, in 4th grade.

[–]Kinbaku_enthusiast 5 points6 points  (4 children)

Hey thanks for another strong post. I came across another BPA / Testosterone study and was hoping you could help me read it.

Earlier I read one that men working in chinese chemical plant for 6 months dealing with bpa resulted in lower testosterone compared to those working in a water factory. That's not really surprising.

Here is a study of bpa levels, testosterone and italian seniors. I am trying to figure out how significant the testosterone effect is. Could you help me figure that out?

https://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/1002367/

[–]2InvoluntarySickCunt[S] 6 points7 points  (1 child)

I'm be happy to share some thoughts.

So the first thing to note here is that the cohort here has a geometric mean urinary excretion of BPA in the range of 5.63 ug/day. The confidence interval here is a 95%er so we can say that if we selected a random person from this cohort there's a 95% chance they would have BPA excretion between 3.42-3.77 ng/mL of urine / day. Let's keep that in mind as we continue.

Next thing to note is that the study finds the younger and fatter a subject is the higher their BPA excretion, and that higher daily excretion was associated with HIGHER total T concentration. This seems very counter-intuitive to me so this is intriguing.

Unfortunately this is about all we can pull out from this paper because it doesn't specify any mechanistic reason why higher BPA excretion would lead to higher total T levels in men. The paper is purely correlational, and while interesting, offers no value beyond that.

[–]perplexedm 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Thanks for this link, however, the first pinned thread on this sub is about why not much to bother about plastics, bpa, etc. by a 'scientist'.

[–]Kinbaku_enthusiast 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I know, we had a considerable discussion about it if you read the whole thread and there is sufficient reason to not be 100% certain of that, as you can see from his own comments in that thread. I encourage you to read them.

Be careful of scientism in general. Just because a scientist says it, doesn't mean it's true. You're doing this good scientist a better service by examining his claims critically and asking questions that they may raise, rather than taking his word as gospel out of a priest's mouth. I think he would probably agree with me on that.

[–]Gebrechlichkeit_ 14 points15 points  (7 children)

I also wonder if living in an emasculated society also plays a role in this? Would be interested to find out whether western women have higher testosterone levels.

[–]Kinbaku_enthusiast 6 points7 points  (5 children)

Though it's hard to say what role culture plays in this, I am pretty sure if we lived in a less man hating mainstream culture, this would reserve more attention, considering how significant a change this is.

I mean, International man's day despite already being far less attention grabbing than international women's day is often actively campaigned AGAINST, with York university (IIRC) saying: "from now on we'll focus on gender ewuality by focusing on the problems women face", when explaining why they forbade an international men's day.

[–]destraht 2 points3 points  (4 children)

"from now on we'll focus on gender ewuality by focusing on the problems women face", when explaining why they forbade an international men's day.

From what I've been reading and listening to lately this appears to completely mirror the approach that Jews used to deconstruct Goyim society so many years ago. The Jewish "intellectuals" thought they didn't need to do "cross intersectional" analysis of themselves because they are victims. This is the profile of a victim and today also likely a combination of feminist ideology being run by Jews themselves and feminists modeling their strategies on the successful social campaigns of Jews, basically strategies that have worked in the past. So largely there are white males and just males these days speaking about logical arguments and other sides asserting that the dominant oppressors (white men, men) need to be deconstructed as their logical axiom while being incapable of self-reflection about any regard of this axiom. The modern feminist logical starting point is not an essential base but is actually an already quite built up and sophisticated construct and this is why they are always going wrong. It doesn't matter though because they are victims.

[–]Kinbaku_enthusiast 1 point2 points  (3 children)

My own impression is that even feminists don't really know what they're talking about. I've dated two gender studies graduates. When you peel and you peel at the philosophy, you come right down to the core: For one it was: always side with whomever is most oppressed. For the other it was: patriarchy is unquestionable. Both are the quintessential cultural marxism, marxism applied to social identities for the former and marxism applied to gender for the latter.

Of course since it's also postmodern, they each make their own interpretation in a way that can never fully have discourse since they don't really believe in discourse or intellectual... I wouldn't say intellectual integrity. Perhaps what they really lacked was intellectual responsibility, or an attempt at intellectual objectivity. Subjectivity was rejoiced and indulged in, and advocated for, which meant that they moved less like an organised phalanx when attacking social structures and more like scattered berserkers, never really giving much of a target.

And then, because they're all (they and their friends) essentially individually attacking, criticizing them becomes almost meaningless for how small a unit you are criticizing and secondly, food for playing the victim which is further used to attack.

[–]destraht 1 point2 points  (2 children)

I recently watch this: MKULTRA: From the Frankfurt School to the AJC. This particular video is trying to make connections between cultural marxism and the MKUltra umbrella projects. There are others sources which focus more on Jewish involvement and domination of Marxist movements. Of course not all Jews are involved (in the formulation of the strategies and ideology) but of those involved its mostly Jews. The typical person you are describing are just the minions and those minions today include tons of white people as well. I think that the only thing which kept the cultural marxism part from being completely implemented in the USSR was the severe lack of men. Its really difficult to propagate an ideology which places men ten rungs down from women when there is a huge shortage of them. Supply and demand. However the affluent West is ripe for cultural marxism since virtually all are removed from day-to-day survival and there have not be large die-offs of the men. Of course under this plan we can see where it is all leading and its not fun. I see it only being a matter of the intersection of the advance of cultural marxism and economic collapse from extreme debt and social degradation. By collapse I just mean a permanent tens of percent drop in GDP and real activity, since this will obviously wake people up and in such a situation a woman's cute mischief becomes less desirable and a man's ability to generate wealth more desirable.

[edit] Just ask what other group has most successful use the same strategies as the modern feminists? caugh Jews.

[edit] btw upvote the posts because threads such as this tend to become carpet bombed once the right people catch onto it. It might take a 12 hours or a week but they always do.

[–]Kinbaku_enthusiast 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Well that video is right down my alley, will watch.

I hope they list their sources or why they think what they think well. That's usually scarce in these kind of videos, which makes me hesitant to really believe the full message.

[–]destraht 0 points1 point  (0 children)

They sort of list them while going through it. Actually their research is kind of on the extremely well documented end of it. They use a mind mapper program with bazillions of points and relations.

[–]aanarchist 5 points6 points  (0 children)

everything starts in the mind. literally the only reason i ever was a blue pill that didn't accept his own masculinity and bought into toxic masculinity. was because of my father who was a vicious abuser. i was a bp because i wanted not to be like him and had no healthy example of how to be a man so i repressed those parts of myself. the women probably have higher t levels too as they were raised by their single mothers pushing them to become more like men, it's only natural for their hormones to be different than a woman who was raised by two peaceful parents and who adopted feminine values so as to meet a healthy masculine male.

[–]victor_knight 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Yet another method of reducing the global population.

[–]Senior Endorsed Contributormax_peenor 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Fatherhood. Well this one was unexpected.

I'm not entirely surprised. Just compare how men were involved with childbearing and rearing now verses a hundred years ago. Just yesterday I was picking up some breakfast and sitting next to me was a effeminate metrosexual in his flannel shirt and retarded oversized glasses with his baby-wearing rig eating his omelette and making derpy baby talk to his one year old. Just a year ago this guy was running around like a retarded in the delivery room being absolutely no help to the mother but had to be there to "share the experience."

I like kids a lot. I spend a lot of time with kids. I like playing with them. I was there when my youngest was born, but we got a woman to help her with the whole process; I've never porked out a baby, how the hell do you think I can be any help or support? What I shouldn't be doing is altering my behavior to do any of this. Kids need your time. They don't need to become a female to tend to them.

[–]Elodrian 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Plastics, I knew it was them!

[–]perplexedm 3 points4 points  (0 children)

But the first pinned thread on this sub is against such thoughts...

[–]INTJokes 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Even when it was the bears, I knew it was them!

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Does this mean that MGTOW monks are swimming in T?

[–]2InvoluntarySickCunt[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think it must be their monkish robes brushing against the nuts in just the right way! You know what they say about the angle of the dangle, after all.

Thanks for the morning laugh!

[–]INTJokes 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Does anyone here have experience taking estrogen inhibitors? From what I understand, they're mainly taken by bodybuilders on gear to prevent bitch tits, but I'm curious of the effects without roids.

[–]francisco_DANKonia 5 points6 points  (6 children)

This is a wild guess and anecdotal, but magnesium levels in food have dropped significantly because the soil is overworked. Magnesium supplementation has helped me significantly. Also, calcium levels in food have gone up. Magnesium balances out calcium in some ways so this is a double whammy.

[–]oloug 7 points8 points  (0 children)

The magnesium supplements with the best absorption are magnesium L-threonate and magnesium glycinate. Magnesium L-threonate is fairly new and more expensive than magnesium glycinate but has better absorption and has been shown to be able to cross the blood-brain barrier.

[–]2InvoluntarySickCunt[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Fascinating thought, do you have any thoughts or evidence detailing what specifically Mg, or a lack thereof, could be affecting? Biologically speaking, Mg serves as a necessary co-factor for many enzymes (in the same way that iron ions are integrated into hemaglobin), I suspect a deficit would lead to overall degredation of the proteome as well as autophagy.

[–]adr007 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Magnesium is very important to actin function. Also, ATP hydrolysis by many kinases use magnesium to coordinate and bind ATP and the water for hydrolysis to the active site.

[–]Senior Endorsed Contributormax_peenor 2 points3 points  (0 children)

From what I know, which really only a handful of seminars with UC of D professors, it isn't the soil as much as the commercial fertilizers prevent the uptake, mostly because of the abundance of phosphates. I've seen no science on it, but it wouldn't surprise me if Organic labeled food had less of this as a problem. While organic labeling doesn't prohibit soil amendments, they tend to avoid the sledgehammer approach that most large-scale farming uses.

So anecdotal, but there maybe some benefit to choosing organic.

[–]beginner_ 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Anecdotal as well but I do supplement with Mg (ZMA) and test levels are still shit. But maybe I need more or have an absorption issue?

Interesting fact is I have salty food cravings which usually indicates mineral deficiency of some kind.

[–]TheRecycledMale 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Avocados are rich in Magnesium. Also, you might try Maca powder. I believe the black maca has the highest level of magnesium.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (2 children)

nice post.

I remember seeing a study, YEARS ago , that basically measured sperm motility from intercourse with a female partner and from jacking off to porn. Same people were used and compared.

Any initial thoughts on this? Can our body know if we are fucking Palmela or Pamela?

[–]2awalt_cupcake 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Can our body know if we are fucking Palmela or Pamela?

yes pheromones are released around females. Pheromones are how our bodies communicate without communicating.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

yea I understand how pheromones work. I am asking about the detail of it from science boy.

[–]un-supervised-savage 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Pre-diabetes men could describe 75% of men in the US. Looks like this is the biggest factor.

[–]Hjalmbere 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Regarding original post and my personal experience:

  1. Consumed lots of alcohol until late 30s. Never noticed any real effect on my sexual ability. Did however excercise regularly.
  2. Noticed big drop in sexual interest and ability when I became a dad. Happnened over a couple of weeks.

I've managed to turn things around by taking vitamin D, fish oil, eating Brazil nuts and having egg and bacon for breakfast. Plus cold showers in the morning and evening. Warm showers are for pussies. Also stopped eating all nuts except Brazil nuts and Macadamia nuts. Other nuts are rich in shbg which reduces free testosterone.

The above regimen has resulted in both muscle gain and increased sexual ability. I found this method in Tim Ferris book "The Four Hour Body".

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Well, there's one more theory. This decrease, if you look at the trend, started in the 1990s. It also mostly affects Western men. And the source must be an activity that drops testosterone. My guess is that excessive masturbation to pornography is a big source, as well as those listed. The Internet, and therefore high speed Internet pornography, became accessible during the 1990s through dial-up. On top of that, it was mostly available in developed (Western) countries. Ejaculating excessively means releasing testosterone; done on a regular basis, it means feminized men, higher voices, etc. For many guys, porn is a coping mechanism, seemingly like an addiction. A guy who would masturbate once a week or once a month would masturbate daily nowadays.

As for some other causes, some make no sense. Eating shit, poor diet, etc. - if these were the source, at least the major source, wouldn't non-Western men suffer too? You're kidding yourself if you think 15 year old guys in Arab countries, for example, don't eat like shit like here in America. Fatherhood? Go to countries where men have 5+ kids, and compare both the number of kids they have to their T levels. Probably not the cause, because developing countries often have more children per family. Alcohol abuse? Go to Latin America, alcohol flows like water in many places. Is testosterone low there? I doubt it, based on the study you presented.

[–]HotN00b 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Just want to point out... testosterone breaks down into estrogen... grains and many other forms of carbs especially refined sugars will promote aromatase which is what breaks down testosterone into estrogen.

So... unless you want to end up growing a pair of boobs; avoid grain, and make sure you get enough zinc :P

higher levels of testosterone = higher levels of estrogen. you can get a general genetic level of testosterone from someone's facial structure. with this in mind; have you noticed how people with naturally higher testosterone levels are more likely to be manginas?

testosterone doesnt actually promote aggression; it promotes clear logical thinking, calmness, and often confidence. it's estrogen that is the bad one... which is where the roid rage comes from.

make sure you get your zinc :P or all this effort in keeping higher testosterone levels will be futile...

also, if you want high testosterone levels. just keep physically active. working out increases your testosterone levels 10x. which makes you wonder... maybe the smokers just don't work out? concerns me if they dont keep track of who works out and who doesnt when they do testosterone studies.


edit, want to make it very clear; how absolutely important it is to not eat grain... if you eat grain, your estrogen production will have a chance of being on par with a woman's estrogen production. you can expect a 100-300% increase in estrogen just from eating grain; depending on the person.

[–]Endorsed ContributorBluepillProfessor 2 points3 points  (0 children)

metabolic syndrome and pre-metabolic syndrome.

This is easy enough to test. Compare a group of men with pre-metabolic syndrome with the general population of men. No doubt T will decrease more in the Pre-Met group. However, I am betting it is a social cause, more than biological. Men and especially husbands have been defeated by feminism. Anything masculine is maligned and criticized.

Football is no longer a great sport but a sadistic culture watching men inflict brain damage on each other.

NORMAL male sexual aggression and dominance is now criminal and patriarchy.

Young boys are drugged at even a suspicion of masculine or rambunctious behavior.

The most important cause of male T drop is the INCREASE in T by females.

Defeated male slaves have lowered T just like men today. Wierd.

[–]metallicdrama 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Chronic low grade stress of modern life kills T. There is much research in primates and humans that confirm this. Stress kills T and we no longer live in he days where we would relax, deal until we deal with a massive stress, overcome/adapt, and replenish. Now we're ALWAYS stressed with no real relaxation/recovery. Modern electronic entertainment, bad sleep and poor diet all compound this. We live in times where our daily stress is much higher than before. The way our lives are organized, new social norms, bad economics, the collapse of the family. There is a positive feedback loop of primate males in their society losing social position and T.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yeah definitely metabolic syndrome plays a role. I'd say the biggest reason is the skewing of fats to polyunsaturated [vegetable oils] over saturated and monunsaturated. Polyunsaturated fats have been shown to absolutely tank testosterone levels, whereas saturated and monounsaturated raise testosterone. High protein diets also tank testosterone levels. PUFA does a lot of other terrible things to you as well, but we'll leave it at test for now.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

What would happen if T from Albumin and Sex binding hormone simply released more Testosterone into the blood? Why is 98% of T bound to proteins in the blood?

[–]WhorehouseVet 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Your test level shoots way the fuck up. SHBG is there to provide a steady state of test level as well as keeping things within normal. Imagine without SHBG your body will have to continually adjust your test level, and your hormonal fluctuation will cause your body to be out of whack.

[–]ratthing 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Excellent analysis and summary. Thank you.

The reduced cortisol and T in fathers is a result that is typical across other mammalian species. It is probably related to the need to bond with and protect one's kids.

The greater tragedy here is that there is little desire on the part of The Powers That Be to do anything about this mess.

[–]Xoramung 1 point2 points  (0 children)

From what i have read and studied, you need to eat more animal fats aswell because these fats help not just with Testosterone production, but healthy brain and organ functions among other things (strong erections). I have also read/heard that if women eat lots of animals fats too, they will want to breed because the biological response of her body is basically says "hey bitch we have enough chemicals to reproduce." If you are riding the 1950s studies by of "fat will kill you" time to update your research to 2017.

Also refined sugar (too much) can wreck your testosterone production too.

[–]MaleToothFairy 1 point2 points  (0 children)

What does it mean for men, if you forecast the data over the next 500 years? What's the implication here, if the trend won't stop?

Why only in western males?

[–]CaptainSupream 1 point2 points  (3 children)

Hm very interesting. Very important to reiterate that testosterone is CHOLESTEROL DERIVED. Another important fact, in the last two decades western health and vegans declared war on dietary cholesterol, stating it leades to heart disease, obesity, sedentary lifestyle. Now is it such a suprise that in the last two decades we've seen a drop in T levels?

To me its clear as day that a main proponent of waining T levels is that people are eating less and less cholesterol. Guided by their doctors and vegan propaganda alike. Little do they now this is destroying T levels. You need dietary cholesterol; to my knowledge it is one hemolytic cleave away from a molecule of testosterone. Google this: cholesterol mecahnism hormones.

So to people who think that it "builds up" in arteries when consumed, why would it when it has a crucial fuction in our ballsacks. Our bodies arent dumb, things dont go through complicated processes just to be stored in our arteries, and then kill us.

Men are the hunters we need to eat like the hunters. Societal programming is keeping us from being men through nutrition as well. Low/no cholesterol= low T everything else is just hamstering.

[–]2InvoluntarySickCunt[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

I think you're on the right track but id like to add that the cholesterol that T is derived from is actually itself derived from dietary fats. The fatty acid chains undergo multiple ring closures to create the steroid platform.

[–]CaptainSupream 0 points1 point  (1 child)

This is the track sir. What would have more of an impact on cholesterol levels in our bodies "small factors" or an abrupt diet change layed on by our government on the very molecule we derive T from!? The timing of all this is no coincidence.

Have a look at Weston Price's studies contrasting the western diet with modern indegenous tribes its astonishing and involves high cholesterol foods. I think youd be interested.

[–]2InvoluntarySickCunt[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Sounds very interesting I'll check out those Price papers. Thanks!

[–]2wiseclockcounter 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The TRP Guide for Increasing Testosterone

This thread from a while back seemed to have some good stuff. Would you endorse the suggestions OP? Is it missing anything?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Growing up I spent quite a bit of time outside running, fishing, cutting firewood, etc. That was just country life back then. As a result obviously testosterone levels were higher.

You can't sit in a desk or on a couch and expect to be superman

[–]setzer_ 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Yo, sperm counts are decreasing because of genetically modified foods and the immense amount of glyphosate that is paired with them. This is without a question of a doubt, a significant cause of low sperm counts. Might want to mention that in your post.

[–]2InvoluntarySickCunt[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If you have a source for this i would be glad to include it

[–]TheReplierBRO 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'll tell you something man. I was raised in the church but my dad died of cancer when I was 18. Still I saw him emasculated from cancer since I was 8 and my older brother was a solid, 6'4" man like my dad and uncles. I came out weak, small, and overall ceasing to most every man. I mean I'm 6'2" but, until recently, you could tell something was wrong. Something still is. The Bible says the effeminate earn a place in hell as well. Because being small, weak, and effeminate is not reflecting God's glory. Men are men, not women. I have small, soft hands. Size medium by bone density and muscle. XL by length. Size 10 hands. Small wrists. I'm strong. But weak compared to what I should be.

Now, since prayer, I learned all you brought together, by the spirit about 2 months ago. I began to see everything as a challenge. Begin to walk with authority. Begin to push myself. Don't back down. Let my presence be known, and if it's looked down upon by another man, let it be hated for being unwielding. All I can say is that my hands are small still. Changes that haven't occurred because work. But a man needs to work hard, stay moving with force, and fuel himself properly. And not focus on women or anything but the task at hand. And before you know it the baddest girls in the plant are trying to get his attention. The beauties in the church are getting gushy when he walks by. In visiting or being out and about, they're interested or go so far as staring up and down or further. Or further.

I still have a long way to go. But I just got a new job tomorrow morning. A daily 10 hour shift of waking early and pushing. And you continue. And you keep going, focused, all gas no breaks, because eventually that's normal, and eventually, you stand out from your peers tremendously and the first budding hairs of a beard and armpit hair come in with your muscle.

My calluses are new! Be gentle when you aggressively shake my soft small handshake because it won't be too long before I show you what my God has done in my life. Pretty good for being a complacent, porn addicted alcoholic acid and Molly popping loser. Our biggest battle for masculinity is comfort. Cold showers teach you to get your balls back.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The explosion of pornography and the societal encouragement of masturbation ("It's good for you!") is my best guess for low T. Also tons of sugar and the antagonism towards masculinity is probably bad too

[–]saint_pill 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Study demonstrates rapid decline in male dog fertility -- https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/08/160809095138.htm

If male dogs are losing fertility at similar rates to human males, it's likely something beyond diet and a sedentary lifestyle, which is what was implied by the author's metabolic syndrome conclusion.

[–]Phoenixtorment 0 points1 point  (2 children)

metabolic syndrome and pre-metabolic syndrome

What is pre-metabolic syndrome?

[–]WhorehouseVet 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Pre diabetes. High blood sugar level.

[–]Phoenixtorment 1 point2 points  (0 children)

No that's metabolic syndrome.

[–]The-Peter-Principle 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Lovely stuff. Would love to see many more scientifically reasoned posts with supporting evidence on TRP.

[–]tanqop 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Awesome post man, great content. I'll be waiting your next post of the series for sure.

[–]Dekaayy 1 points1 points [recovered]

solution. cruise on 200-250mg of test a week and accept pinning yourself for life.

[–]WhorehouseVet 0 points1 point  (7 children)

200mg is mini blasting. Better stick with 100 to 150mg.

[–]Dekaayy 1 points1 points [recovered]

bro i cruise on 250mg test, 20mg anavar, 4ius pharma

[–]WhorehouseVet 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Bro, and you're not injecting Winny into your calves for the lulz?

[–]trees_away 0 points1 point  (3 children)

My doc has me on 300mg a week. Should I be concerned?

[–]WhorehouseVet 0 points1 point  (2 children)

You need blood test, but I'd guess that's a bit high. 500mg a week is for cycling, so you're already mini blasting IMO.

[–]trees_away 0 points1 point  (1 child)

We've been gradually bumping it up and testing. My total T last time he checked before we bumped it from 250 to 300 was only 405 ng/dL

[–]WhorehouseVet 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You must have god tier SHBG level.

Edit: your aromatase might be hyper active, what's your E2 level?

[–]ironjohnred 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Awesome post. Thanks for sharing!

[–]novalentineforyou 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I love these kinds of posts!

[–]LOST_TALE[🍰] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sedentary Activity (metric not specified here)

that could be enough to fuck it up after the ''adjustement''?

[–]LOST_TALE[🍰] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

(sitting on your balls all day ain't too great for them

that's not sitting on my ass right? I know those cyclist chairs are ball cups.

[–]kevincash158 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So if we're linking testosterone and insulin, then would the conclusion be that fasting aids in testosterone? Just curious to get your thoughts on fasting and T.

[–]SpecOpsAlpha 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Work too many hours, T goes down, probably because of inactivity and stress. Kids and a job leave little time for good workout.

Only thing to do is supplement -- 3 cycles per year, with strong recovery meds in between. Get an Olympic set for home use and actually use it. Cut calories to the min. Run when you can.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Awesome article man, thanks for taking the time to write this.

[–]Toothpick_Brody 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Then MY employer would be a bank robber?

[–]uebermacht 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Wow, sugar decreases testosterone, surprise.
Cut out sugar from your diet - profit.

[–]goldenhourlivin 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I wonder what the keto diet does for testosterone levels...

[–]JFMX1996 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I've been wanting to make a post on this subject for a while, but you really did it well!

Great job man.

[–]narazz 0 points1 point  (0 children)

i've tried a lot of stuff here. seems carbing up like a lot of them vegans do is the best thing to help me here. has given me lots of engery and i've gotten to the point i can have dreams again too.

keto just didnt work for me. it's good to starve but i feel you're better off just starving over eating like that all the time. overall just felt like i had no engery. after all dont see athletes drink a bunch of oil so i just dont think this is the best solution for engery. thinking back to a kid what did you eat, yeah lots and lots of sugar - just more of the unhealthy kind.

another good tool has been juicing. usually skip half the day from eating and just survive off plant sugars

compared to where i was just saying im a lot better off. a big meal i feel like crap still of course but just not as bad as it was.:)

[–]Gainznsuch 0 points1 point  (2 children)

What constitutes an "elevated marker of alcoholism?"

[–]2InvoluntarySickCunt[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

They are molecular markers defined in the paper. I didn't quote the definitions because they are sufficiently complex to be meaningless to most people.

[–]Gainznsuch 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So in order to know if you have "elevated markers" you need a lab to test it, right?

[–]33papers 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Plastics in food and water are a contributor, and the timescale fits.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I have read that becoming a father triggers a response to reduce testosterone which in turn will reduce risk taking behaviour.

This is because risk taking behaviour is not beneficial to raising children and will harm the family.

I have no idea how the science behind this works though. Im not a doctor. But the theory does make logical sense to me.

[–]clavabot 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So our out's to this issues would be, fix the diet, workingout and hormone replacement therapy? Is that it??

[–]spez666 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What is the natural way to increase T level in the body?

[–]21_TwentyOne_21 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Not when you pin test for fun

[–]noaydi 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I wonder how the opiate epidemic invalidate the study, or if it have been analyzed well into the study ? Opiates users have often low T problems.

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