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ScienceTRP is catnip for narcissists; bipolar girls are catnip for narcissists (self.TheRedPill)

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[–]MEpicLevelCheater[M] [score hidden] stickied comment (5 children)

From EC /u/88Will88:

Not necessarily. People can have pronounced tendencies in vanity, entitlement, authority, exploitative, lacking empathy, grandiose without qualifying as NPD. Someone can be extremely vain and entitled yet have empathy and be sensitive. Having some of the criteria does not mean you are NPD. I would like to see OP and others on this site do the test and then report their scores:

https://psychcentral.com/quizzes/narcissistic.htm

I would be surprised if TRP was overly represented by people who actually satisfy enough criteria to be considered NPD. Why? Because most of our readers are here for guidance and help because THEY CANT GET LAID. So the idea that we are over represented by NPDs is just another dark triad post where a bunch of Call of Duty playing basement dwellers get off on thinking they are edgy because they have self diagnosed as Machiavellian, Sociopaths or Narcissists. It is all horse shit and it plays to the idiotic attempts to belittle us and put us into a pidgeon hole, like the bloopers do.

This sort of post makes us all look stupid. So go ahead and do the test everyone, I will give a shiny internet point to anyone who posts their score so we can see some of the actual stats rather than the armchair, frontier psychiatrist pseudo science that represents this post. No, none of you are edgy sociopaths or Machiavellian princes, you are a bunch of incel kids who are here to learn masculinity. Now sit back down and be quiet so the grown ups can teach you.

[–]youkickmyd0g 90 points91 points  (8 children)

Good stuff man. I've been thinking I was NPD for a while now, surely recognize BPDs as a pattern in the past. I've dated some healthy girls too though, albeit not for long. Def rubbed off from my family, saw them for a week and got a year of therapy. Each time they do something that pisses me off, I ask myself if I do that and the answer is often yes, sometimes after resolving some self-lies. Gotta build habits that counter act the behaviors, so they become unnatural (under stress is when they come back, unsure about long term approach here).

No doubt it can be reprogrammed buddy. Thanks for sharing.

[–]Senior Endorsed Contributormax_peenor 41 points42 points  (5 children)

recognize BPDs as a pattern in the past

It is my experience that a woman a relationship with a man that has no frame will often act in a way that is indistinguishable from a woman that is legitimately diagnosed with BPD. This is why it's super important to look at ourselves before slapping a label on any female.

[–]Senior Endorsed ContributorCopperFox3c 19 points20 points  (1 child)

Or to put it another way: Borderline Personality Disorder is simply an extreme version of normal female behavior.

You can actually learn a lot by studying BPD, and realizing that all women will display some of those characteristics at times, in milder form. Never wanna date another one though.

[–]Senior Endorsed Contributormax_peenor 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Twenty years ago there was no such thing as the Autism Spectrum. Medical (if you want to call psychology majors that) professionals needed work and this is how they increased their market. Maybe it is time to create the Typical Female Behavior Spectrum. One one end of the spectrum they leave cat carcasses around your house and set your car on fire after fucking your best friend. On the other end they spend too much time on Facebook liking posts. They all need help.

[–]notonlyplace -1 points0 points  (2 children)

t has no frame will often act in a way that is indistinguishable from a woman that is legitimately diagnosed with BPD.

This is why it's super important to look at ourselves

We are not responsible for a women's actions that is blue pill,

before slapping a label on any female.

you just labeled them BPD ?

[–]Senior Endorsed Contributormax_peenor 0 points1 point  (1 child)

BPD does not spontaneously resolve. Install a backbone in a male in such a relationship and you'd be stunned how fast most women chill the fuck out.

responsible for a women's actions

Haven't you heard? Everything is our fault.

[–]notonlyplace 0 points1 point  (0 children)

. Install a backbone in a male in such a relationship and you'd be stunned how fast most women chill the fuck out.

I seen natural alpha's get beat down, stand up for themselves, ect... can't fix crazy, What's so stupid about this sub is man are attacking women that are too nice and calling them boring.

I mean god damn I prefer a women who isn't crazy, and they are out there

[–]TruthInArt 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I didn't know it wasnt just me that had this pattern of behaviour!

[–]10xdada 57 points58 points  (6 children)

TRP actually fixes a lot of narcissistic tendencies in guys instead of encourages it.

Barring for a moment that narcissist and sociopath are words thrown around for anyone a high-agreeableness+high-neuroticism person doesn't like.

A male narcissist is fundamentally a bitch who needs that bottomless approval of others. This comes from an undeveloped masculine identity, which is still tied to the viewing itself through the adulation from their mothers. Their Ego is malignant and defends itself psychotically from threats to its maternal perfection.

"The Red Pill" you take is that everything you believed about women, your source of narcissistic supply and hence yourself, was a terrible lie, and "monk mode," is essentially starving the Ego while you build your identity using masculine foundation. When you re-emerge, you have the tools to mange your Ego, and you can build a better life than the one you had made as a needy attention junkie.

When you lift, cold approach, read philosophy, and develop a self image based on physical mastery of some art or craft - and not the approval of people who are not peers or admirable, you become less of a bitch, ergo, less of a narcissist.

[–]Lo-G 15 points16 points  (5 children)

Either that, or you become a more capable narcissist.

The other thing is that these words are applicable to any man, at least to some degree. No need to fall into the family resemblance category of NPD in the DSM-5 to have a loving mother that overfed your ego a bit for example.

NPD is mostly defined by lack of empathy+ high social ability as far as I understand. It's just one extreme possibility in the endless amount that's given by the combination of normal distributions of big 5 personality traits. Defining it as a bad trait (or moral negative) per se is the same as being an agent of averageness. Your post makes too many sweeping judgements about narcissism without a good foundation. There's a high likelihood that narcissists are highly overrepresented among succesful historical figures for example.

[–]10xdada -3 points-2 points  (4 children)

So to start, "narcissist" is a basically a pseudo-medical euphemism and we should really just say what we mean, which is "bitch."

The drive for external approval would certainly cause people with that drive to occur in clusters of "historical figures," e.g. people who accomplished things others are still talking about, because that's what they do. We can moralize on a tautological selection bias, or we can see it for what it is.

To use the term narcissist is to moralize the tendency into an identity instead of talking about it in terms of big-5 categories. It's language that discredits the speaker, you might as well talk about something as being "classy."

A PUA is like a monkey with a gun, where a guy who understands TRP becomes more like, I don't know, some kind of zen master fuck samurai who causes women to soak themselves from 30ft away with his chi or some shit like that.

[–]whiteslimshady 2 points3 points  (0 children)

"narcissist" is a basically a pseudo-medical euphemism and we should really just say what we mean, which is "bitch."

this is such a stretch I could feel it in my calves

[–]Lo-G 5 points6 points  (2 children)

So to start, "narcissist" is a basically a pseudo-medical euphemism and we should really just say what we mean, which is "bitch."

Not really, NPD is pretty well defined in the DSM. The word bitch however...

The drive for external approval would certainly cause people with that drive to occur in clusters of "historical figures," e.g. people who accomplished things others are still talking about, because that's what they do. We can moralize on a tautological selection bias, or we can see it for what it is.

Your point being??

To use the term narcissist is to moralize the tendency into an identity instead of talking about it in terms of big-5 categories. It's language that discredits the speaker, you might as well talk about something as being "classy."

As much as I like the big-5, it's not a fully functioning theory of human psychology by any stretch. It's conceivable that it does not provide enough detail to describe specific types of behavior associated with NPD. Only using the big-5 to define NPD is a bad idea. Using specific words to describe sets of behaviors isn't a scientific sin.

A PUA is like a monkey with a gun, where a guy who understands TRP becomes more like, I don't know, some kind of zen master fuck samurai who causes women to soak themselves from 30ft away with his chi or some shit like that.

That's just a very weird statement, irrelevant to the fact that I'm talking about what you define as narcissism. You say narcissism can only be due to a pathological mother-son relationship and that thus all narcissists are broken and behaviors that are commonly ascribed to narcissists can only be seen as negative. I say you don't have any proof or solid argumentation to back up that claim. Instead you're projecting your own insecurities onto a useful label so that you can deal with them.

[–]10xdada 0 points1 point  (1 child)

"Only," no, but reliably the case. I have sound reasoning and argumentation, I do not have double blind reproducible studies because psychology doesn't produce them.

You can sealion and ad hominim all you like, but your arguments above reduce to post hoc justifications for moralizing over a fabricated outgroup of pseudo-medicalized hate figures.

My above comment reduces to a teleological narrative model based based on simple heuristics, with some testable predictive power.

My final point about fuck samurais was to show that unlike the counter points, I am not defending an ensconced belief with the thin edge of my knowledge, but rather, reasoning openly about plausible explanations.

[–]Heinzdoofens 59 points60 points  (10 children)

If what I have observed is right, this sub is filled with narcissists including me. We are the overachievers who want to achieve even more, but our ex oneitis/BPD blindsides us and we end up here.

If you want to fuck the shit out of Megan Fox, but not Natalie Portman, you are a narcissist.

We are pathologically not attracted to normal people.

Non crazy people are just boring.

[–]olreddit2 29 points30 points  (2 children)

Non crazy people are just boring.

I know that feel bro, i'm on a great LTR with a nice looking girl, she's like a child besides me, acts like that and im her inspiration, perfectly normal girl who is in a manner of speaking psychologically healthy, but for me its like meh, i just stay there because she's a great supporter, loves me a lot and i know its healthier for me, but its boring to be honest.

[–]Mister_Deus 11 points12 points  (1 child)

I hope you see the simile here. The is a perfect reflection of AF/BB behavior with gender reversals. Your girl is the Beta Bucks. You stick around because she provides, but you're a BPD widower.

[–]olreddit2 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Well, I treat her with respect, don't cheat on her or anything like that, I enjoy being with her and I like her, she's just not as exciting as BPD girls are.

I don't know since I've been on the TRP for 1 year only but I just rationalized relationships, BPD girls are exciting yes, but they are like drugs to me, they're fun and exciting but they also destroy me, so I just find a nice girl with good ltr traits, maybe she's not the one who makes me feel stupidly in love, but hey, I haven't had any good experiences with that so I really prefer stability and a good nice relationship instead of being stupidly in love.

Also, she's nos providing me with anything else than love and emotional support, all what I have, I have it because of myself and my hard work and no one else.

[–][deleted] 24 points25 points  (3 children)

This is real shit. Every "normal" girl I date bores me to tears. It's only the BPD I see every so often that gets me excited. It's easy to see from a mile away; drama, nonstop texting, neediness, always wanting to know what you're doing.

The BPD girl's constant need for our attention satisfies our narcissistic ideas of self importance. It also causes productivity to go down.

Oh well, at least they can fuck.

[–]olreddit2 16 points17 points  (0 children)

and they fuck so good that they fuck our lives too

[–]TheEagleAndTheSnake 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Boy, can they. They will suck your soul out but fortunately, they will also suck your balls dry before that.

[–]abstractplebbit 3 points4 points  (0 children)

They can fuck your shit up too

[–]Mithra9009 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Do you think it's possible that the very reason for why you feel a need for excitement and stimulation to begin with is precisely because of your narcissism? Narcissists are emotionally quite sterile inside on a moment-to-moment basis. Perhaps if you weren't a narcissist, you'd actually be okay with normal people.

Or you would at least dislike them for new reasons.

[–]RawbyD 46 points47 points  (2 children)

YEP. BPD women will ruin your life if you let them. Run boys

[–]coco5440 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Excellent advice! Wish I had heeded it!

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      [–]pmmedenver 15 points16 points  (2 children)

      Wtf I was kinda with you till the god stuff. Whatever floats your boat though I guess

      [–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

      I think God can be a metaphorical thing as well as literal to some people. It does not mean he is doing it, but by putting it in a way to gain perspective. God is usually just a metaphor in certain instances for the disconnected understanding of complex systems to our primitive ape brains. I NEVER understood why people kept saying "God" until Jordan Peterson came on Joe Rogan's podcast saying it's not always to be taken literally or something of the like.

      [–]Jkarl1 3 points4 points  (0 children)

      Wow, great post dude! So true

      [–]mainer345 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Insightful I hear the message.

      [–]boredgod 0 points1 point  (2 children)

      I’m what you described in terms of narcissistic traits, but I wasted many years of life in pursuit of God. No more. Altering or alleviating my faults is better from a place of self-responsibility than from reading “providence” for signs that cannot be differentiated from natural phenomena. My username is even a reference to a god that doesn’t communicate with humanity.

      I’ve found that taking responsibility for every aspect of myself is superior to an artificial system that does all the interpretive and exploratory work for you.

      Like the other guy said: to each his own.

      [–]blurtard 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Maybe that’s what god wants you to think.

      [–]Mithra9009 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      Doesn't the idea that you specifically were able to receive a special, divine message from God also play into narcissism?

      [–][deleted] 20 points21 points  (7 children)

      Two kinds of narcissists. The grandiose and the weak. The grandiose want to be ruler of the world with unlimited power and money. They think they are gifted at what they do. Often they are correct. Many highly successful business people are grandiose npd. Think steve jobs. Also it seems almost all politicians are on the same spectrum. It doesn't seem to be a bad thing to me to have a touch of this as long as you can keep some of the negative traits in check.

      [–][deleted]  (4 children)

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        [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

        You got a good point. I'd say it's very difficult though to achieve the highest levels of success without some npd. Like I said important to keep the negative side of it in check.

        What helped me was first understanding what it was and how it affects the thought process. Just being aware is huge. Next in a one on one conversation I like to pretend I'm watching the conversation as a third party so I'm not tempted to make it about me.

        [–]mgoblin 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        And created endless pain to others

        [–]Zachar1a 12 points13 points  (0 children)

        Just thought of Elon Musk (NPD) and Amber Heard (BPD).

        [–]atifhere 25 points26 points  (8 children)

        The best strategy for a narcissist psychopath is to be in LTR with an empath and plate or FWB with a BPD.

        I was in relationship with a sweet beta empathic woman who gave this mother like acceptance and love vibes. On the other hand I was cheating with an BPD alpha woman with lots of abundance and sex drive.

        Cons of the empathic woman: Extremely possessive, comfort tests 24/7, she's boring and wants you to be boring(its her way of taming you, and wants you to become unattractive so you have less options, but we all know how this ends. She's weak its just her survival method). No self-respect for herself, hence you can't bring yourself to respect her even a little bit so can't be violent and aggressive towards her(probably a masochist and wants you to be like that towards her, who knows)

        Cons of BPD Alpha woman: Get ready to develop feelings for her no matter how much you don't want to. She's extremely beautiful and charming and she knows that she got it. She knows your buttons. She will stroke your ego, make you feel special. And if you are not careful enough you can easily fall in her trap. Get ready to be cheated on, oh she probably is cheating on you already. If you are not making her feel like shit and insecure then she will make you feel all that. Relationship with her is a constant battle.

        Psychopath narcissists preys on empaths. They can control them however they like, and that's what they like to do. Empaths fill their need of being a victim by being with a psychopath. And they know they a weak, and if the psychopath consider them to be a resource then they will protect them from external danger.

        BPD girl knows you are a narcissist. And this is the reason she chooses you. Because 1) You are powerful, or have the potential of being powerful. 2) You can be fully controlled by her. That's right, she can control you because she knows how to play with your ego. Soon without you even realizing you will be in her control. Your power is now her's.

        Why bother with a BPD girl when you have an empath? BPD alpha women are challenge, they give the thrill. They like your wild and free side. They give you a sense of purpose to keep on competing and improving yourself. The best strategy is to keep em on the side, enjoy them while they last. The one I was plating was sort of my best friend we both knew each other very well, and also gave love to each other. And we were fighting 80% of the time. But deep inside we know that these fights mean that we give a shit about eachother. It was a sort of way of bonding. And oh she had a serious boyfriend while she was getting fucked regularly by me, and two flings while with on and off with me. These two are the one I am aware of. God knows, she might be cheating on me too the entire time. So there's that. Just enjoy your turn

        [–]PlanetoftheGrapes94 2 points3 points  (1 child)

        I'm basically in the same position as you, except the bpd fwb i have is "polyamorous" (excuse for being a superwhore/fucking as many people as possible, attempts to normalize it with a progressive label). the positive of that is she is also into girls and threesomes happen on occasions

        [–]atifhere 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        She is Muslim and we live in an Islamic country. So she cannot pull this polyamorous card. Such discussion used to be the only time when she would get cognitive dissonance and would have hard time to hamster her way. I would tell her that I have no problem with it so she dont need to justify herself, but I told her straight that I won't get sexual with her if at those days she would get sexual with anyone else. Not being sexual with her would totally destroy her self-esteem and she would become restless unless I fuck her.

        I just can't imagine that how much she would be a whore if she get to the West. She's strikingly beautiful and would be fucking 3 new Chads every single day. I have no doubt that she would turned into a porn star. Sex for her is just power. She knew that many men lusts over her and fap to her regular facebook pictures. The way she humilates the men who express their feelings for her, made even a cold hearted man like me feel bad about those men. She would keep them on the hook and it was disturbing to watch the men losing their self respect for her, she clearly enjoyed all this.

        I used to do the same with her, not because I enjoyed it, its because I knew that this is the only way she can stay with me.

        [–]salil_707 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Helpful indeed. Commenting so as to save it for later.

        [–]machialon 0 points1 point  (1 child)

        Agreed on bpd, thoughts on controlling narcissistic tendencies?

        [–]atifhere 4 points5 points  (0 children)

        Just be self-aware so no one can take advantage of it. But there is no need to suppress it. Fuck those people who tell you to find peace zen or some other hippie bullshit of accepting yourself. I have tried imitating this accepting yourself and others behaviour. And my results were in negative. Wasn't able to pull any girl. Nor able to gain respect in any department of life.

        The people telling you to be not selfish narcissist or non-empathic are weak people who know they can't compete. So there strategy is to get you out of the competition.

        When people tell me that I shouldn't be selfish and self obsessed then I ask them that isnt this more selfish and self obsessed behaviour to ask someone to be obsessed about you instead of their own self.

        And regarding empathy. No one ever had empathy towards me then why should I have towards them. Its a matter of switching places of power, they would never have empathy towards you.

        [–]soyDonEladio 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        What have you read to know all this stuff man? I'm honestly asking. Thanks!

        [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Great post. Spot on describes my last two girlfriends perfectly

        [–][deleted]  (3 children)

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        [–]1Original_Dankster 6 points7 points  (1 child)

        3 basic points:

        1. Be rich.

        2. Be attractive

        3. Be mentally resilient

        Aaand you just destroyed the business model of dozens of dudes here by revealing that super top secret info. /s

        [–]coco5440 6 points7 points  (0 children)

        The mentally resilient part is really important. I was totally unprepared when my ex lied, cheated on me, and for good measure stole. The sense of betrayal can be incapacitating. But if you don't want to be a fucking martyr you need to bounce back. Having a healthy (but rational) sense of self-worth facilitates recovery.

        [–]notonlyplace 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        think a lot of men find the TRP just coming out of a relationship that ended badly.

        Or to learn and increase their chances, improve their game, you make it sound like TRP is just for hurt angry man, when in reality it's just a tool that attracts all kinds

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            [–]2 Senior Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours 2 points3 points  (0 children)

            Zero empathy is also sociopath, you can be that without the narcissism, but often they go hand in hand.

            I see no spectrum. I see others like me, and the rest of you. From this perspective it appears that your early life is where you're either made or not made. I've met very few other sociopaths who didn't have shit childhood lives.

            Most of these posts, as you know, are made by kids who see themselves as something they're not. They try to be more attractive to girls and think being a narcissist or sociopath it's the way to go. I can tell you from nearly 5 decades of experience, it's a shit life they do not want.

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              [–]atifhere 4 points5 points  (7 children)

              Empathy is just a feminine biological trait that comes with lack of testosterone and abundance of estrogen

              [–][deleted]  (4 children)

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                [–]atifhere -2 points-1 points  (3 children)

                Pretty much. I used to be very empathic. Its after when I used steroids after 2 years of heavy weightlifting I come to the realization that empathy is purely based on the chemicals in your body rather than your values or psychology.

                [–]42-AX 4 points5 points  (2 children)

                That's bad reasoning. We're biological creatures. Everything we do is based off a chemical balance in our brains. That's why exercise and diet are 2 of the most important influencers for mental health.

                [–]atifhere 1 point2 points  (1 child)

                Nope that's not bad reasoning. It's like saying a computer is based off electricity in its processor. While there's truth in it, the processor is capable of processing the information based on the instructions of the chip.

                Saying that everything we do is based off a chemical balance in our brains is a huge reductionism. Its a valid but pointless argument. Its like saying we are just bunch of atoms arranged in particular way. Its true but its not conveying any information that can be useful to understand how things function.

                You can have best diet and exercise in the world but still you can feel suicidal if you have abusive past.

                [–]RobotAntidote 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                I agree. Empathy is inherently flawed. What you "emphatize" with is YOUR constructed image of that person. It's, I feel, like constructing puppets for yourself to play with in this life. It's why empathic ppl start noticing patterns and then attributing them to an entire human "class". Or maybe that's a false conclusion. Can fellow narcs help me out? Do you class people after a particular pattern emerges?

                [–]Narcissist456 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                YES. I went to see a therapist (female) and she kept telling me how as a narc I needed to develop a sense of empathy to develop a healthy emotional spectrum. Fuck that shit I bailed. Narcs have an inherent advantage in today’s society and I’m not willing to give that up to “have feelings.”

                [–]yarow12 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                From what I've been told, this is actually true.

                [–]Endorsed ContributorBluepillProfessor 4 points5 points  (1 child)

                If we accept the premise then much of TRP praexology could be inapplicable to non-NPD/BPD relationships.

                I don't accept the premise.

                Because BPD's are just a more extreme version of women with bad female characteristics (flaky, chameleon, liars, solopsistic) BUT they are just greater on those characteristics, NOT different.

                Similarly NPD's (and I would add the male version of Borderline Personality Disorder in women which is "Antisocial Personality Disorder") are just a more extreme version of the Archetype "Alpha" male. They are just greater on male characteristics (dominance, aggression, narcissism, dark triad etc) BUT they are not different.

                Thus archtypal Red Pill relationships (NPD/BPD) are simply greater on the negative characteristics BUT the solution is the same.

                Edit: I am thinking of LTR's in writing this response.

                [–]Endorsed ContributorThotwrecker 5 points6 points  (2 children)

                Narcissism is essential to being a high value man whether in the sexual market or corporate ladder. The key is tempering your narcissism with reality, and understanding your shortcomings and faults instead of living truly in narcissist lalaland. Narcissist LaLaland is Weinstein land, it's "I can do whatever because I'm me, I need that hot chick because I'm me, I need that, I deserve this, no one is plotting on my downfall, my brother wouldn't use a scandal to do me in, etc"

                Narcissists fall into their own delusions and die in their own personalized blue pill. Charlie Sheen is a good example - remember "winning"?

                At TRP we have to use narcissism and even go as far as being very narcissistic, but always tempering that with an accurate view of reality, society, humanity, and ourselves. The last is the most important - along the path of delusional confidence and creating their own world in which they are gods, narcissists lose their ability to be a self-spectator. To see themselves as they are, as though through a mirror.

                I've developed narcissism over almost a decade or so of seeing how much it benefits me, but the key is to be able to simultaneously believe your own shit, while also being able to see yourself as you are. Narcissists have super hamsters, which is how they spin everything that happens to fit their narrative and self-perception.

                TRP gives you the tools to do that, as well as the tools to manage your hamster, and it's up to you to figure out how to balance them.

                [–]Oscar_Cc 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                I suspected this. I just can not see how you can split ambition from a certain degree of self-righteousness/feelings of superiority.

                The more I read manospherian stuff the more I believe that humans are inherently flawed and prone to neuroticism of one sort or another.

                In men, this has to do mostly with sex. A simple thought experiment I like to do is the following:

                Imagine you can't get laid. Feels bad, right? Now imagine you knew for a fact that no other man can. You would feel better. I know I would. It is completely irrational, but that's how we are.

                [–]JYandeau 3 points4 points  (3 children)

                I have NPD & have to admit, this post is so fucking accurate. This makes so much sense & I don’t know why I didn’t realize this before. No wonder all the girls I date are fucked up, it’s because I subconsciously am attracted to their darkness lmao FML...

                [–]Narcissist456 0 points1 point  (2 children)

                Same here man it took me years to finally understand who I am.

                [–]JYandeau 2 points3 points  (1 child)

                Strong username to post correlation

                [–]iwasbornred 3 points4 points  (0 children)

                Narcissist is just feminist codetalk for "man that doesn't cater to my vagina"

                [–]Augustuscrassus 3 points4 points  (3 children)

                This makes so much sense to me. I score highly on narcissistic tendencies and my former oneitis I long suspected to be BPD. I made the mistake of opening up to her and she became everything I had ever wanted in a girl. When she turn cold on me, I.E my use for her was up, she vanished. I have never experienced the sort of emotional fallout I had before she left. It was like an addiction; she was like heroin.

                The change was just a complete flip from loving, adoring, fun loving girl to completely cold and avoidant, could give a fuck if I lived or died.

                My adoptive mother had NPD. It rubbed off on me a great deal. Plus abandonment issues from having been given up for adoption, fun times. Don't give your kids up for adoption it can seriously fuck them up if they don't get the right home. Hell, I had the right home at least financially.

                We'll call the oneitis L. She knew all the things that I wanted my mother to tell me, all the things I wanted a woman to tell me, all the things I wanted in a person. It was soul warping the way she just turned. I'm still not fully over it.

                Be very careful gents.

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                  [–]Augustuscrassus 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                  Oh yeah I'm fine it's just strange now. I'm still not sure if it was real or not? I miss this perfect caricature of a person, not the dark thing that was beneath the facade.

                  [–]PowerVitamin[🍰] 12 points13 points  (6 children)

                  I might be old fashion, but I don't understand anything in this thread. It sounds like air heads talking about special snowflake objectifications for people.

                  This is all quotes, no substance. It rides on a huge projection/mass generalization of people he has never met. And there isn't even any synthesis, theme/thesis, argued. The end of the quotes reads:

                  We've all heard that BPD girls are killer in bed.

                  PS: I know I am a narcissist, first step to working on it is seeing your own patterns.

                  This is one of the most useless projections of someone's own personality I have ever read.

                  [–]Mr-Ed209 4 points5 points  (2 children)

                  Im with you.

                  It seems to be a description of traits that are universal to every human on the planet. The distinction being BPD refers to girl traits and NPD to men.

                  Shock.. women are attracted to displays of ambition and competitiveness in men.

                  Shock.. men are attracted to displays of compassion and nurturing in women.

                  Could it be some genetic legacy passed on to aid the parenting of children?

                  Nope it has to be definable mental disorders and if only mum/dad were better.

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                    [–]Mr-Ed209 6 points7 points  (0 children)

                    Except the behaviors described in this article, rather than explanations on the extremes of psycological episodes seem to be actually quite reasonable and common behaviors exhibited by either sex in defense of their respective sexual strategies.

                    [–]1mental_models 2 points3 points  (1 child)

                    I have mixed feelings.

                    In some sense, it feels like a 'horoscope' con.

                    However, Narcissism is interesting to me. I argue that Narcissism is healthy and attractive, - provided it is within a rational frame.

                    Narcissism is considered a mental disorder, especially when the person judging/perceiving considers you to be 'cold', an outsider, or a threat. If you are perceived as 'warm', an insider, or a benefit, the same frame can be perceived as 'charismatic', 'confident', and 'charming'. There is also societal pressure to tone down your talents and fit in. To put your country, job, group, church, etc... first (ahead of your self-interest).

                    [–]Theworkerman 5 points6 points  (1 child)

                    Just a note and maybe for editing purposes...it isn't bipolar personality disorder. Bipolar and borderline personality disorder are 2 different mental health issues. Also, narcissism has certain character traits that go further than the provided description of trp followers.

                    [–]RPVegan 7 points8 points  (0 children)

                    Being a narcissist is just being fundamentally a survivalist. Thus narcissism is merely an mechanism of survival in this cruel harsh world.

                    A narcissist can be played incredibly easy by those that adhere to the Machiavellian, which is why it's always best to not make it your full identity.

                    I hated narcissism but I see that its a necessary tool for survival. The OP makes sense the dangers in which narcissists fall victim of is the BPD. Malignant Narcissism is also the most destructive form. Being Highly self aware but applying Narcissistic traits into your personality will get you far, in fact I think it's mandatory.

                    [–]shanghai123456 20 points21 points  (12 children)

                    Calling a man narcissistic is pretty much always shaming.

                    Do you think men get anywhere in life if they don't have a rock solid self esteem / self belief?

                    Psychology is mainly about attaching negative labels to people undesirable to the system that relies on people staying in line for ever diminishing returns.

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                      [–]2 Senior Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours 10 points11 points  (4 children)

                      Happiness? Fuck happiness. It's fleeting, based entirely upon perception with no quantifiable cause nor results. You can make yourself happy despite being in a world of shit. You can make yourself miserable when everything around you is pretty fucking great.

                      I strive for satisfaction, not so much "ok I've done it, now I can fuck off for the rest of my life," more like "I've accomplished this, time for the next challenge." Men measure themselves and each other by what they know, do, and their capabilities, if you want happy as a man, you need to achieve. That doesn't mean need to be the best, but to do something not easily done. You can be delusional and happy, or you can do something most can't and feel more than happy or pride.

                      Not going to make much sense to someone young who hasn't done or achieved anything greater than graduating, which nearly everyone does. Team sports aren't going to get it either, this is an individual achievement, and without it something will always be missing. This used to be a coming of age ritual our challenge, like Spartan boys being sent to the wilderness to either perish or become a man. It no longer happens, and instead we get touchy feely happy thoughts the likes of which only females and weak males aspire to.

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                              [–]dum_dum_boy 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                              There are happy losers, and there are depressed losers.

                              There are happy winners, and there are depressed winners.

                              Happiness won't pay the bills.

                              [–]Oscar_Cc 0 points1 point  (2 children)

                              But what's the point of wealth if you are not satisfied?

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                                [–]Oscar_Cc 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                                Interesting, I recall reading AJA Cortés saying that you should seek contentment. I guess there are different red pills.

                                I have always wanted to be above average, but that also puts a lot of pressure on you. I have experienced a lot of grief over not getting laid, something that I think goes well beyond the biological grumpiness associated to it and I suspect has to do with social expectations. In that sense, wouldn't "winning" make you dependent upon social expectations?

                                Maybe you agree with this post:

                                https://xsplat.wordpress.com/2016/10/22/self-esteem-is-a-mental-map-of-how-we-are-viewed-by-others/

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                                [–]BokehClasses 1 point2 points  (1 child)

                                How did you get over your repressed anger? I'm asking because I've got the same issues (and benefits) as you.

                                [–]NarcKammerjaeger 2 points3 points  (7 children)

                                Narcissism is a Form of cancer imo. If you would have a tumor diagnosed would you still smirk about it? No! You would do what ever it takes to get that thing out. You act like you are cool till that narcissistic injury comes and with it massive cognitive dissonance. Very painful, like a tumor. You can use opiods to numb it, but the sun does not stop shining because you closed your curtains does it?

                                LSD even in micro doses helps a lot in my experience. And I believe that you have to use substances or some sort of very hard behavioral therapy to get that soul pathogen out.

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                                  [–]dum_dum_boy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                                  That's amazing. Kudos man.

                                  People who knock psychedelics just. don't. fucking. get it.

                                  [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                                  Great story. I had a bad acid trip one summer after I was obsessing over some girl and though it terrified me to my soul it honestly made me more outgoing and alpha - something strong was unearthed inside of me.

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                                        [–]watermelonicecream 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                                        I don’t agree entirely, NPD involves some very blue pilled characteristics.

                                        For example, some of the hallmark characteristics of someone with NPD include:

                                        1. Regardless of circumstance, always being the victim/martyr.

                                        2. The absolute inability to handle any criticism or complete any type of self-reflection.

                                        Always being the victim, and having zero ability to look in the mirror and self reflect are two characteristics that are about as blue pilled as it gets.

                                        [–]ThomasHobbesROK 2 points3 points  (10 children)

                                        'Narcissists have built-in grandiosity. This is their defense against feelings of inadequacy and inferiority, and these deficits trigger their compulsion to rescue, guide, teach/advise and train others.'

                                        Might be true but how exactly is this a bad thing?

                                        [–][deleted]  (9 children)

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                                          [–]Jkarl1 3 points4 points  (0 children)

                                          You’re right about this and the fact that many men with NPD Traits will flock to redpill ideologies to seek answers and explanations, especially after being burnt by a borderline. The problem is a borderline is a perfect match for the fixing compulsions we have, when someone normal may “feel” boring.

                                          [–]Oscar_Cc 2 points3 points  (6 children)

                                          Could you please tell me if I am narcissistic?

                                          Ever since I was a kid I felt a strong urge to be above average. I grew up reading a lot about heroic men of the past, historical figures, etc. and wanting to be like them. Guys like Kemal Ataturk, Lenin, Francisco Franco, etc. My family is not political at all so all of it was self-taught, so to speak.

                                          Still now everyday chores and struggles bore me. I can not relate at all with the anticipation people have for buying a new house or a new car. Parties, concerts, etc. don't mean much to me. Needless to say this is not good for dating.

                                          So far my only sexual experiences have being with hookers (I am late 20s). I stopped going however because despite being higher-end sex workers, using condoms and all, I always worried about STDs afterwards, so it was not worth it.

                                          The thing is, I found them highly satisfying, exactly what I wanted. I really dig the busty trashy-looking pornstar type, and they were exactly that. The lack of real intimacy did not bother me at all. A close friend I have talked about this said he would be repulsed, but I had a blast. Maybe it is about the "remaining independent" mentality. As a kid I was not keen on kissing relatives or being cuddled by them, so maybe that explains something.

                                          And last but not least, despite growing up in a very functional family, with an almost perfect marriage in which I never witnessed a single serious argument between my parents (trust me, a marriage many Americans would kill for considering what I read here), I always, ALWAYS knew I did not want to get married, and that marriage itself was obsolete. Finding TRP has been a late confirmation of this intuition of mine.

                                          Sorry for this if it got too long. I would be thankful if you can throw some light.

                                          [–]ThomasHobbesROK 5 points6 points  (1 child)

                                          We sound similar, also bored by a lot of everyday things (though don't be so lazy about chores you end up living in a dump).

                                          First sexual experiences were also hiring the odd escort in early 20s, though I've always tried to date 'real' women and have had more success in this area last couple of years (I'm 24). But suspect I will never be too good at relationships long term, ah well.

                                          Also love stories about 'heroes' of the past. Love a good WW2 movie marathon (Battle of Britain, Patton, The Longest Day, etc).

                                          Others will dismiss us as 'aspies' or 'day-dreamers' (or just 'that weird guy over there') but I'm more inclined to dismiss them as small minded, petty people who struggle to even conceive what the wider universe looks like beyond the route to the local shopping center.

                                          Having said that, the top few % of the population can be very interesting people. I got to go to a good, select-entry school and continue to have lots of interesting friends and acquaintances who are off conquering the world in their own way.

                                          So fuck those bitches, go conquer.

                                          [–]Oscar_Cc 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                                          Thanks for sharing your experience, I wholeheartedly agree. It is astounding to see how parochial most people are. Not stupid, but parochial.

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                                            [–]Oscar_Cc 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                                            Thanks for your answer. It is always interesting to see people who are similar to you, and the Internet just makes that much easier.

                                            [–]williamof 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                                            Did your mother hug you much / at all?

                                            [–]Oscar_Cc 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                                            Don't exactly remember about the hugging, but my mother would kiss me regularly, tuck me into bed, etc.

                                            I was however not very affectionate myself, I thought it was kinda 'girly' to hug people, kiss relatives... I considered it a silly and unnecessary ritual.

                                            I am a single child, so I spent a great deal of time alone. Played a lot with toys, read comics and adapted books for children, etc. Did well at school and liked being more knowledgeable than others from the things I read, but I was not even close to being gifted. I always had friends and made them easily; I was overweight but did not care, and being taller than most people my age bullying was a non-starter with me.

                                            Honestly, I had a near perfect childhood. fAn intact family many would wish they had, considering what I read on the Internet. Talking to many girls recently I was astounded by the amount of "my mom's boyfriend" remarks I heard.

                                            The problem with being an adult male is sex, pure and simple. Were it not for it I could keep on living as a kid forever. I can't help but resent my sex drive lol

                                            [–]Ananonguy88 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                                            Yup, I'm a narcissist, I've been with BPD, now I'm TRP. Confirming.

                                            [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (1 child)

                                            There is a material difference between NPD and a man who is narcissistic. Someone with NPD would never be able to internalize much of the sidebar as their ego would constantly get in the way.

                                            [–]Narcissist456 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                                            Not true, I’m diagnosed NPD zero empathy and I’ve been internalizing the sidebar for quite some time now.

                                            [–]Ichewfivegum 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                                            Just own up to it, it's that narcissistic competitiveness that makes the world go round. I'd rather be improving my life and fucking women than doing fuck all with my life and jacking off.

                                            [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (11 children)

                                            Listen to Jordan Peterson and sort yourselves out

                                            [–]coco5440 3 points4 points  (1 child)

                                            Jordan Peterson has some great insights. He's one of the few intellectuals who is on my wavelength. This might be because we share similar backgrounds -- we grew up a few miles apart in northern Alberta and our time at the University of Alberta overlaped.

                                            [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                                            He’s a benevolent sophisticated red pill

                                            [–]williamof 0 points1 point  (8 children)

                                            He is a Narc. A wounded child. Emotionally stunted, using intellectualism to try to escape from inner feelings which he will never front up to - which is essentially the runway for narc take-off

                                            [–]dum_dum_boy 0 points1 point  (6 children)

                                            I'd say for a wounded child, he's pretty successful at what he does, no?

                                            [–]williamof 1 point2 points  (5 children)

                                            At fooling people into the folly of avoiding feelings through a permanent escape into thought? He's successful at that alright.

                                            He's a wounded child, inside.

                                            Look up Alice Miller's Drama of the gifted child on YouTube. The whole audio book. People aren't aware of it. Peterson is depressed, and had internalized a lot of anger. I see it in him. Only way to solve that is to express authentic feeling, which he can't do, as he's blocked it off for too long (hence his perpetual moodiness and dark attitude)

                                            [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (4 children)

                                            Wtf are you talking about? There’s countless videos of him genuinely expressing virtually every feeling of the human experience.

                                            [–]williamof 0 points1 point  (3 children)

                                            No there's not. He oozes negativity, and misery. He's a Narc

                                            [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

                                            If you think that you don’t get it

                                            [–]williamof 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                                            You'd be surprised what I get

                                            [–]tuner_metronome 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                                            There is a HUGE difference between personnality traits and pathological personnality. A "normal" person can have a personnality trait without being pathological. So no pseudo-science please.

                                            [–]MickMensa 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                                            This really hits home for me.

                                            [–]MrEscher 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                                            Are you seriously surprised that a mens relationship/lifestyle forum has an unsually high incidence of BPD female warning posts?

                                            Redpill is a fringe ideology, therefore it's likely to have fringe personalities participate, of that I am not surprised. But to use BPD women as evidence of that, I don't really buy. Sampling bias imo.

                                            [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                                            Nothing wrong with being a narcissist if you know it. Use it to your advantage and minimize the cons. Most of this can be done by thinking about what you say before you say it, keeping yourself a mystery.

                                            Most narcissists who do not use their trait as a gift get caught up talking about themselves too much and turning people off. Avoid this and it's pretty much an advantage.

                                            [–]boo_radley_awesome 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                                            To quote Tony Soprano’s ma (also a BPD): “Psychology is a racket for the Jews”

                                            But seriously, while I do not deny that there are certainly individuals who are fucked up, I think it’s just part of the human condition. One could easily think of an excuse to write off psychology itself as being narcissistic for attempting to understand the human mind! But then we get into a dog chasing it’s tail scenario...

                                            I’ll end with another quote, “Nike, just do it”

                                            [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (4 children)

                                            Not necessarily. People can have pronounced tendencies in vanity, entitlement, authority, exploitative, lacking empathy, grandiose without qualifying as NPD. Someone can be extremely vain and entitled yet have empathy and be sensitive. Having some of the criteria does not mean you are NPD. I would like to see OP and others on this site do the test and then report their scores:

                                            https://psychcentral.com/quizzes/narcissistic.htm

                                            I would be surprised if TRP was overly represented by people who actually satisfy enough criteria to be considered NPD. Why? Because most of our readers are here for guidance and help because THEY CANT GET LAID. So the idea that we are over represented by NPDs is just another dark triad post where a bunch of Call of Duty playing basement dwellers get off on thinking they are edgy because they have self diagnosed as Machiavellian, Sociopaths or Narcissists. It is all horse shit and it plays to the idiotic attempts to belittle us and put us into a pidgeon hole, like the bloopers do.

                                            This sort of post makes us all look stupid. So go ahead and do the test everyone, I will give a shiny internet point to anyone who posts their score so we can see some of the actual stats rather than the armchair, frontier psychiatrist pseudo science that represents this post. No, none of you are edgy sociopaths or Machiavellian princes, you are a bunch of incel kids who are here to learn masculinity. Now sit back down and be quiet so the grown ups can teach you.

                                            [–]Oscar_Cc 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                                            Someone can be extremely vain and entitled yet have empathy and be sensitive.

                                            This is a bit how I used to be, not entirely but close enough. I was always baffled by psychological descriptions of narcissim because I suspected having it, but my highly felt empathy did not seem to fit the picture.

                                            I think that sexlessness has made me harden, and I don't feel the same empathy for others as I used to when I was happier. I distinctly recall one day as a 12 year old or so when I realized how priviledged I was compared to others, and I felt bad because of it. I am still priviledged in many ways but that feeling is almost entirely gone now.

                                            [–][deleted]  (2 children)

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                                              [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

                                              That is the test, it is the same test on multiple sites and it is the one psychiatrists use. Do it or find another one. What is your score Mr self diagnosed narcissist?

                                              [–]TommyTheThird 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                                              Hey, this article you shared resonates with me so deeply, I had to comment just to thank you for sharing.

                                              [–]MaxBrodin 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                                              I’ve been aware of the BPD female /NPD male before getting into red pill.

                                              With all our self improvement, one fact remains - a hot BPD female was hit on from a very early age and has used her sexuality to take advantage of men far longer than any of us have practiced “game”, “frame” or whatever else. It comes natural to them.

                                              This means that an NPD male is at a disadvantage from the start.

                                              There’s also a warning to avoid messing with the psychiatric labels - if you read up on psychology, you will see that all of these personality disorders, including bipolar, share a lot of symptoms and are a distortions of normal behavior. A NPD person is highly disagreeable and unstable in terms of big 5. A borderline female is just unstable.

                                              [–]redditer0 2 points3 points  (1 child)

                                              Do you think that narcissistic think they need to "self improve"? They are ALREADY great, why they would do that?

                                              [–]Fedor_Gavnyukov 2 points3 points  (3 children)

                                              flair should be bro science

                                              [–]Endorsed ContributorBluepillProfessor 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                                              In practice much more like social physics.

                                              [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                                              Have an upvote my friend, this is not even bro science it is neck beard science.

                                              [–]lebogglez 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                                              Actually TRP readers and PUAs are for the most part codependent, not narcissistic. And codependent people desire the attention of narcisists. That's why PUAs and many TRP readers see picking up a (behaviorally dysfunctional) stripper as the holy grail and don't feel satisfied with a "nice girl".

                                              [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                                              Codependency is caused by the same things that cause narcissism

                                              [–]MaxBrodin 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                                              By the way, I’ve read the article OP linked before - this is what got me in the red pill. It sounds very good, her identifying the pairing is correct, but her reasons like “emotional trauma in childhood” is total bullshit.

                                              [–]v3cerja 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                                              Very well deduced :) although I think personality traits can be on one hand good for debate and compartementalisation but on the other hand - they do not indicate any illness, inferiority etc. As TRP one could argue that these psychological observations are sometimes blown out of proportion as disorders or even diseases .... I too am a narcissist: knowing my limitations but still proud of it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOScYBwMyAA

                                              [–]notonlyplace 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                                              I never met anyone who wasn't a narcissist in the way you describe

                                              [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                                              Proud of all you guys. Self reflection is the first step to being happy. Most blue pillers are in denial about any dark parts of their personality and pretend they are morally superior beings. That's why they will never figure out the truth about themselves and will live a false and unfulfilling life.

                                              [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                                              I don't think many people here are NPD but I think most people here have suffered heavy narcissistic injury, which caused us to crave narcissistic supply.

                                              [–]CanuckinFL 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                                              While I'm certainly narcissistic, and had those facets of my persona dramatically emphasized when I dated a BPD, I do have a question, having read somewhat about the subject-

                                              why but why would a narcissist investigate TRP, which stresses self-improvement in every way? I suspect you conflate narcisissism, which is part and parcel of the human experience across the board, with narcissists, who -

                                              a) would never characterize themselves as such because it connotes something negative

                                              b) would definitely NOT be looking for self-improvement

                                              c) cannot empathize, and so would not be reading testimonials and chiming in where relevant.

                                              Honestly, i don't see it, guys. I just see the "pole" of dark triad behaviors which imply power to women as being something we maybe aim more towards, but with a balance. I don't eschew empathy, it's perhaps the only aspect of humanity worth a damn.

                                              We're just here to learn not to bruise an otherwise noble sensibility in ourselves on women who do not merit it. And yes, the jury's out on whether you EVER find one worthwhile, that's not an indication of empathy's weakness. It's an indication of how perverse modern women's perspectives have become.

                                              Frankly, because of this, and centrally because of this, the modern relationship is to me, totally unworkable. Kindness shown is interpreted as boring and uninspiring. So out I go. What's the damn point. Ha

                                              BTW if you are a narcissist, you're not worth a damn as a father. Still want to be one?

                                              [–]Shakydrummer 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                                              ...yeah the last one I was seeing was diagnosed with Bipolar disorder. Her crazy was endearing, but eventually the hot and cold drove me nuts so I just let it fizzle out. Furthest thing from boring though, God damn.

                                              [–]KirklandCamber 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                                              A lot of you guys need to understand that there is a binary switch to BPD/Narcissism, as to whether you have it or not. It is a defect in your cognitive structure, and it likely has a physical manifestation as well. The problem is that we cannot measure it emperically yet, so we look for traits to indicate the probabilistic likelihood of this person having a mental defect which makes them BPD or narcissistic, or other disorder. This is why in a diagnostic setting, having a skilled doctor perform a diagnostic interview is needed to diagnose someone. Through the interview, in theory, this doctor is able to guesstimate whether this person has the yes/no of this disorder. These are not made up things. A person that is BPD will not be able to stop acting in a way that BPD do, without actual medical intervention. At this current state of affairs, there is no valid medical intervention. Stay away from these people. The are not a joke. It's not a fun challenge, a thrill, or any other poetic nonsense. If you need a thrill from BPD women, you've fucked up. It's more thrilling to drive race cars.

                                              [–]lardblarg 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                                              That show “Love” on netflix is literally about a relationship exactly like this. Interesting.

                                              [–]RobotAntidote 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                                              Thank you for this OP, this greatly helped exemplify what I already felt is a childhood trauma. Had my mother saying I'm super smart all the time and I had to live up to the expectation. There was no way this wouldn't send me flying in hyperspace level of emotion. Problem is I also am rather smart, by IQ standards anyway, and it's a bit harder to get to rock bottom. What is even life man

                                              [–]gman992 -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

                                              Sounds like a lot of people who can't get laid.