Off TopicFor the Incels - The only post you need, so you can shut up. Forever. (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by Endorsed Contributorsadomasochrist

All too often lately, I'm seeing a lot of this pop up on here, and frankly, this discussion should have been sorted out a long time ago.

(Starts with) I am (pick several)

  • Low attractiveness ethnicity
  • Short
  • Have an ugly face
  • Some debilitating physical ailment
  • etc (some variation of "permanent impact to SMV")

First thing out of the way

If you think you are this person, you probably are not.

Getting in shape, dressing well and picking up a sales job so you can learn how to talk to people will get you laid, most of the time.

You will not be spinning plates. Fine. So be it.

There's plenty of guys who have a couple deficits with themselves and do OKAY or the few, chosen few, who despite, slay. You've decided, through rigorous analysis, that you will never.

FINE. This one post is for you.

Listen Chad, I understand that, point is, I don't want to be a provider and be taken advantage of

Cool, great, fine... we'll get to that in a minute.

To be clear, this post will exist for 3 reasons.

1) Your concerns are valid (some people will never be able to "spin plates" or not be a provider)

2) I am annoyed at the "Jim Jonesing" orwellian doublespeak about "enjoying the decline."

3) There is a solution

I will make this post under only a couple presumptions.

  • You are not, the ugliest man ever to have existed.
  • If you have some serious deformity, you need something, somewhere. Height, status, dark traits (being a criminal scumbag etc)

If legitimately, you can not change, any part of you, at all, and you're still horrendous, fine you win. You are the 1%. You are, again, not likely this.

And even if you were, information is not perfectly transparent. One woman's 3 is another woman's 5. It is unlikely, you are restricted to women who see you as 0 or 1.

Being in shape, and strong, puts you SO FAR ahead of the game, it's not even fair

It is, basically, unfair to be in shape. The VERY WORST that you're doing is living a longer life to formulate your best shootout strategy when you finally exact revenge on your old friend for stealing the girl you never even told anyone you were into, who would have probably tried to nicely tell you she wasn't attracted to you.

But fuck him and her right? Comeon man, I'm going to extend you this advice without talking too much shit, just at least take the stuff that should be easy to digest. You can't lose with this. You're going to be so far ahead of the game.

NO, you won't bang 8s. Sorry, most of us have A LOT of trouble doing that, most of us PAY for that right. And you know what, filling a 5 or 6 up with a bunch of cum is a good time, seriously, most of us subconsciously only achieve because of this. It is theorized that it is the underpinnings of competition within the socioeconomic system, and without that drive... well you'd probably just... oh my GOD... play video games, eat cheetos and drink mountain dew?

Okay, put down the controller, spend some time at the gym and now you're so far ahead we don't know what to do with you.

Damnit normie... you're still not...

That's not what I'm addressing. What I am addressing is the valid concern that you don't want to work your ass off just to become a high beta and get divorce raped.

Well, how fuckin' sad is this when I realized the reason why these guys are locked away in their rooms miserable is because they're still honor and duty bound.

So let me help you unwind this.

Women don't owe you honesty, and you don't owe it to them.


Women, in my opinion, most of them, aren't setting out to fuck up your shit intentionally. In the moment, they felt like they would be comfortable with you and spend forever with you. They probably think to themselves that "this guy is not attractive, at all, but he's funny, cares about me and he says he wants to be a programmer. He's not terrible in bed..."

She'll lose attraction to you, straight up. You're weak genetic stock, and that's okay, let's work with that.

Meet Casey Neistat

He's extremely unattractive, in shape, runs beta game and has an attractive (pick your own HB at or above HB5) woman who has chosen him to father a child with her.

Look at this guy, honestly. How much room do you have to claim you can't get laid, none. Take away his status or money and he's still having sex with women that will get your dick hard. And if not, put down the porn you god damn junkie.

Lot's of women that are fairly mediocre will turn you on, turns out your body is fairly apt to get your dick hard and cum inside a woman because it's only the most important thing for your body to accomplish outside of homeostasis.

Now... you might be saying "no shit, sherlock, but I'm not going to be a provider, you can't make me." FINE FINE FINE, let's deal with it... FINEally

Well you know what....

No one can make you be a provider, except yourself

Newsflash. Plenty of men, who deep down in their guts, knew, in their heart of hearts that the women they were with were "the wrong choice" only let it happen to them because they weren't half committed as you to the idea that women do not care about you.

They somehow convinced themselves the stripper with 4 kids actually liked that thing they did with your tongue. Which by the way, stop that, she hates that. That bamboozled themselves that "church girl" hasn't had a train run on her before. That believes, NAWALT.

Well guess what snowflake, you already think every woman on earth would only use your penis as a mechanism to extract resources out of you. So you're WAY ahead. You have AWALT built into your very existence because you don't have pussy goggles on.

You have built in cock blocking that while terrible, has a great side effect. You will never be blinded by the naive optimism of the average man.

Honestly, good for you. Lot's of guys would be IN BETTER PLACES if this was their life. If they could erase that 5 year divorce wreckage on their life they'd be in better spots, that you never got to. Look for some silver linings in your wastebasket diagnosis.

Yeah, so what, I don't want starfish sex

To be frank with you, I don't actually believe when Casey's wife started letting him take a trip to tuna town that she laid there motionless in terror of this man pumping away at her.

She probably enjoyed it and was turned on with the fact that she was with a guy that had some status, some money etc. She liked that he offered her access to this world.

And I'm sure for a while, she fucked him proper and well.

That's what a lot of you guys aren't willing to digest between the ridiculous dichotomy between DIEING IN LONELY AGONY and HAREM FULL OF SUPER MODELS SPINNING PLATES.

Easily 80% of men are serial monogomous, and easily 80% of men settle into marriages that become lackluster in the sex department.

Almost zero marriages continue to have "pornstar sex" into their older days. It's just the nature of attraction in a mutually exclusive arrangement. Now there are plenty of ways to get around that, but that's way above your level.

You're just trying to get laid, you're scared you're going to get dogshit sex and get taken advantage of.

Well guess what, we all had a bunch of dogshit sex too. That's what it's like being normal. And guess what, we all worry about and deal with that too.

But you know what?

No one is forcing you to propose to this woman, or even continue to see her.

Level two prep work

You're in shape, you dress not terrible, you've taken a sales job so you can talk to women without terrifying them.

It's highly unlikely you're not at least at the 50% mark for men, grats. Faggot. (This is a term of endearment among men, just like 4chan)

Now start researching TYPICAL dating websites like Hooking Up Smart

These are blue pill dating websites. They will tell you everything you need to know to attract women that are hunting for providers.

  • It is important they do not think you are just looking for sex
  • They are looking for well adjusted people who don't have extreme views or other peculiarities
  • Income is not as important as you think, sales jobs are healthy for you and pay you

It is important that you do NOT give off any tells that you are "red pill aware." This means not talking about women poorly, you DO NOT need to lick their boots or be a male feminist. In fact, don't become one.

It is most important that

1) She can use you for comfort, you get sex from this

2) She can control you, this is because you have low SMV and are "blue pill"

If you try AF game, you are first, not attractive enough, and second, not offering comfort. Lastly, she can't control you. Large part of this arrangement, is she can predict how you behave and that you're not going to fuck her over, dump her out of her fertility window etc.

So then, as we know with Briffault's law, you are useless. Therefor no association takes place.

I don't even need to tell you to wrap it up, because of that built in AWALT you have, remember?

This is "beta game." Any site like Hooking Up Smart will be PACKED with this advice. Which amounts to BE A NICE RED PILL GUY THAT RESPECTS WOMEN AND WANTS TRUE LOVE.

This should not be difficult, because you are probably very needy. Just hide your dark inner sadness long enough to get it in. You're talking 3 dates, THREE. HOLD YOUR INNER DEMONS FOR THREE HOURS. THREE.

Explained to you in plainspeak, because you are unable to understand the simple things in life

Here is the simple manual for how to navigate your life of attractive, normies, to which you will, on occasion get to have sex with.

1) The initial sex, will almost always be good after you learn how to not be so goddamn terrible in bed. This may take you longer than usual. Hire a couple hookers to show you the ropes so you don't fuck up your chance when you land a normie.

2) She will press for your commitment, this is a trap. At this point, you have no choice, since you have low SMV. You tell her that you are falling for her. And you probably are.

3) Pull up horror stories and remind yourself as you pairbond that you're about to be used and discarded.

4) Continue having sex with this woman until she either demands that you marry her and then tell her that "love works in mysterious ways" or something non-falsifiable, and then dump her.

This is called "pumping and dumping."

As you become more and more skilled at this, you will slowly, slowly, become "a normie." And you can use your knowledge here to get there.

It's worth it, trust us. Even being a mediocre guy that gets mediocre pussy is miles beyond the guy who says he's "consumed with his hobbies."

The sad part here is lots of guys feel like "they need to be honest." Bullshit. You don't owe anyone, anything. Everyone is out there fucking each other over.

If she wants a guy to provide for her and she can't get it out of you, she'll leave for a guy that can. Maybe she fucks another guy on the side, maybe she doesn't.

Who cares, only the chosen few have women that really, really, yearn for them and love them in a way that you understand love.

You literally stop being a fat slob, have realistic expectations, and just don't open your stupid ass mouth and enjoy a woman trying to fuck you well enough that you throw caution into the wind. Which you're already built to be defended against.

So what the fuck is your problem now? Are you really going to convince yourself you'd rather play video games than get pussy, live longer and have a life which is worth living?

This is the basic manual for how you can get laid, and if you can't do this, then you really do deserve the scorn and misery that other users have given you and told you to go kill yourself.

I basically have never met a guy this wouldn't work with, never. If you don't think it would work for you, and you don't have horrible deformities or medical issues making you bed ridden, post.

If you are bedridden and deformed, none of us are talking shit about you. We're talking about the people you despise, that we do too.


Your concerns are valid, you have a solution. Now fucking move on.

[–]SuperCrazy07 138 points139 points  (22 children)

From what I've been able to see from random incel posts, the biggest problem by FAR is mental.

They haven't had success and it becomes toxic in their personality.

OP's example of that Casey guy wasn't particularly good. While he wasn't much to look at, he isn't bottom 10%. Plus, it seems like he has some status and interesting hobbies.

My advice would be this: If you're an incel and think no one like you can get a woman, go to any ikea or walmart in a large suburb and look at all the ugly ass fat men with wives and kids. They're everywhere. The difference is they kept trying and lowered expectations (let's be real, most of the women are below average).

What they didn't do was bitch nonstop on an anonymous internet forum and spam pictures of themselves trying to convince random strangers TRP doesn't work for super ugly people.

[–]skunkarts[🍰] 71 points72 points  (8 children)

The reason incels are obsessed with "just be good looking" is because they are socially withdrawn people with severe social anxiety.

If you are good looking enough women will approach you. This takes essentially 100% of the challenge and anxiety out of approaching women because the fear of rejection doesn't exist anymore.

Incels don't really want women to find them extremely attractive so much as they want a way to get laid that doesn't cause them the crippling fear and anxiety that merely talking to a stranger gives them.

In real life, every guy I know that gets laid a lot is just a regular looking guy who talks to a lot of women.

[–]FrgElder 2 points2 points [recovered]

While withdrawal and social anxiety definitely go hand in hand with the incel lifestyle, I don't think it's the main cause of it; rather those are symptoms that manifest eventually when someone forms an incel mentality. I think the cause of incel's mentality and lifestyle is that they are people with ridiculous entitlement complexes that lack perspective. They're mad they haven't been born into a life of luxury and ease and feel they were cheated in some way, despite never earning anything in their lives. They think "why should I have to work harder to get less results than Chad?" and give up any and all effort of self-improvement. With zero effort put in, the lack of any external worth or validation creates a continuous cycle where they dig themselves deeper into the withdrawn and lonely incel lifestyle.

I get it to some extent. I'm highly competitive and sometimes will have a self-pitying incel mentality. I get angry that upper echelon males like celebrities that are tall, handsome, rich, and exceptionally charismatic have to put in zero effort to bang a girl I would have to game extensively. I get angry that these men receive the most enthusiastic and submissive sex ever while I get hit with LMR and shit-tests all night long. That they can make wives, girlfriends, and mistresses out of any woman they want; get treated like gold, and then ditch them whenever they want for a new one.

Then I remember that these men are the literal top 0.0001% and that comparing oneself to their situation is futile and fruitless. It will achieve nothing other than reinforce my negative mindset. I also remember that no man is immune to the perils of love and women. All men seek companionship and validation from their partners, which will lead them to settle down to some extent. It doesn't matter if you're as handsome as Brad Pitt, eventually you'll find someone like Angelina Jolie which will make your life hell. It doesn't matter if you're as rich as Elon Musk, you'll still get played and divorce raped by a woman you thought loved you (twice). It doesn't matter if you're as charismatic as Johnny Depp, some crazy bitch like Amber Heard will eventually cheat on you and accuse you of domestic abuse. No one is immune to AWALT.

Incels fail to realize the simple fact that everyone fails and struggles despite the gifts/defects the world has given them. They see a hollow glimpse of the exterior lifestyle of Chad and fail to realize the struggles and hardships he goes through daily. They feel entitled to the same life as Chad, without any of the effort or pain needed for self-improvement. They think the game is rigged against them and so they decide not to play, then complain from the sidelines while everyone else fights to keep moving.

[–]davebrain 1 points1 points [recovered]

It may be that women reject them meaner. When I dated, if a woman rejected me it was "I'm not dating right now" (she had a BF the next week) or "I'm focusing on college." When women reject them its laughing in their face or saying "ew." I think that makes a difference.

[–]okcplshalp 5 points6 points  (3 children)

I think a lot of them have neurological disorders like ADHD, mild autism, Aspergers, etc, and may or may not even know it.

I know my ADHD is the source of my depression, anxiety, and low self esteem. These are common comorbidities with ADHD. TRP sounds like it will work, but not until I fix a few things with therapy, because 20 years of not knowing I had ADHD, coupled with 10 years of blue pill mentality, has absolutely fucked my game up.

I think it will take a few years of weekly therapy and a lot of hard work, like working out, bettering myself, etc. to get to where I can actually be successful applying Red Pill techniques. I'm just glad I caught the ADHD in time, and found TRP in time. I think that if I keep working that I too can have fun being a single guy by the time I'm 35 and enjoy 10 years of Alpha fucks, and then after that maybe spread some of my fucked up genes haha.

[–]llmercll 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Yeah I'm kinda the same way. ADHD mild autism thing going on makes me have a hard time talking to people. I've got a really high iq too, which I think puts me on a different wavelength than most people...but I may be wrong about that, a rationalization perhaps. I just find everyone to be stupid, vapid, selfish, etc.

I find people terribly boring, like there's nothing I can learn/garner by interacting with this person. This has made me kind of put off social interaction most of my life, and I'm happy by myself...but that damn instinct to reproduce is gnawing....

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm pretty sure I have adhd myself(only thought about it a few years back)

exercise is pretty key though, making sure you don't give into easy dopamine inducing behaviours like videogames/porn etc

i found the trp and adhd potentially at the same time, just whatever you do..do not start becoming angry as that has severe consequences (i had a police report against me for anger issues which would have been solved if i didn't react in such a stupid manner and was hating on women etc)

OH AND by the way, no one is stupid/selfish and if they were, why does it matter?

Men need men to be men, so be a man

[–]Endorsed Contributorsadomasochrist[S] 18 points19 points  (2 children)

You're missing the point. TRP DOESN'T work for them. You're observing bottom tier people satisfying the provider paradigm.

This is a compromise for those that won't be spinning plates, and to claim that no one is below that is asinine and false.

[–]beginner_ 10 points11 points  (3 children)

let's be real, most of the women are below average

Going by a bell curve exactly 50% of women are below average.

[–]hb8only 1 points1 points [recovered]

yep but 80% of them wanna fuck top 20 of us

[–]beginner_ 9 points10 points  (0 children)

100% but only 80% manage to do so at least once.

[–]SuperCrazy07 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I meant that most of the women with ugly ass fat men are below average.

[–]Loze1 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Bro. My co-worker is a literal 3/10 and she has a bf. Take a look around in the hood too, gangsters pump and dump anything that they can get with. They even get them pregnant. Shocking to see the compromises these guys make on a daily basis.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

You watch any crowd long enough and you’ll see complete slobs with hb8’s too. As far as I’m concerned there is proof to support that damn near anyone can fuck 8s.

There is no spoon.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

It's definitely mental. The main difference between RP people and incels is that they see RP truths as a reason to hate the world while we see it as knowledge to help us deal with the world.

[–]llmercll 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Red pill truths do both for me.

But, I think incels are just weak, they've taken a lot and have little reserve capacity. People reach their breaking point after awhile.

[–]llmercll 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Red pill truths do both for me.

But, I think incels are just weak, they've taken a lot and have little reserve capacity. People reach their breaking point after awhile.

[–]3LiveAFTSOV 20 points21 points  (1 child)

This is going to be a long response.

Honestly, this was one of the best posts I've ever read. The formatting needs work (sometimes I cant tell if you're quoting incels, quoting yourself, or whats going on), but the message and concept is priceless.

It's brilliant because its giving betas and incels a chance to take the feminine sexual imperative and use it against the females they fuck. Not every guy can implement the male sexual strategy of having multiple plates at the same time without exclusivity. But, every guy has a chance to come close to that. You gave one possible solution with the "beta pump and dump" strat, which from personal experience is highly effective. Find one cute looking girl, fuck her until it's over and on to the next one. Really great for lazy guys.

Another good thing about this post is it clarifies reality. Guys come on here, read what the side bar says in regards to mentality/behaviors, implement it, and then get branded as a weirdo. News flash - you're too ugly to be pulling off alpha chad game. A big buff guy can walk up to a girl and tell her that her fat ass looks nice, but would look better naked on his bed. Regular TRP'ers cannot get away with this. And ultimately that's what TRP is all about - it's about having a plethora of sexual strats / tools and you pick which ones work the best for you.

One annoying Red Pill troupe is this idea that all sex is the same. It's not, it really fucking is not. There is a prime difference that was eloquently pointed out by your example, but deserves to be said again: a girl fucking a hot guy is different than her fucking a cool guy. Girls might watch Casey's videos, think his channel, his ideas, his creations are AWESOME. They'll have sex with him too, it will be fun, probably fantastic, but NO girl is going to look at him and instantly get their panties moistened cus he's hot, and that's the difference. Doesnt mean he cant/wont drown in poon, doesnt mean he will be inccel, all it means is that it's important to note the difference to understand the game being played and the strategy to implement.

I love this idea man, it will be brilliant to fool women into LTRing them for their poon and then telling them the world works in mysterious ways. Gonna personally try this myself.

A tired out Red Pill troupe is the idea that "if ya just worked harder in your life, YOU TOO can spin 10 model tier plates like me!" But it's not realistic. You can't just "bend reality to your will, man." Not everyone is destined for greatness, but doesnt mean they are destined for lonely darkness either. They can be aware of the truth behind sexual dynamics so they dont get fucked over by sticking around in a bad deal (disrespectful girl/any form of monogamy/marriage) without living the red pill dream of high society high value parties and an abundance of 10/10 models dying to suck them off.

Fucking is just like weight lifting - there's room for growth but there's a genetic limit.

Another idea that angers me about TRP users is the idea you HAVE to be alpha chad god to get laid. YOU DONT!!! That ugly ass Casey nigga gets laid. I get laid, Other ugly ass niggas get laid. Go look at any porn websites amateur section and see how many fat, skinny, or ugly looking guys are having sex with cute, normal looking girls with nice butts. You might not get 8/9/10, but you CAN get 5/6/7s.

With that being said, Incels aren't even heart-stoppingly ugly, they're just average/slightly below/slightly above average looking guys who can't accept 2 things:

  • They will never be alpha chad, or look like alpha chad

  • They will most likely have to get "girlfriends" instead of FWB's or Plates

Some minor points:

  • I think the 80/20 rule is not a reflection of the entire population, but rather a reflection of the mates a women has access to. Simply, you aren't competing with Brad Pitt, you are competing against other guys in your college, or in your town, etc.

  • Girls you can have a FWB/LTR typically hotter than ONS's

  • I think the key for incels is not to give complete beta game, but non-committal beta game. Offer chance of commitment while acting like a beta. Never do it.

  • I agree with feigning betaness/committment/lack of interest in sex in order to get sex, but NOT at the cost of 4+ dates. If they dont secure sex in 3 dates or less, it's a lost cause.

My only major gripe with this post is the confusion of where guys lie on the "high to low alpha - beta" scale. You say Casey is a high beta. Well what are examples of other places?

I'm 5'10, believe I Have an average 5/10 face, good charisma / confidence (work sales) and im on the slender side, but have a little muscle and a little fat. I believe I am currently a high beta, with the potential to be a low alpha.

I say that because I've been able to get non-committal sex from a 7/10 runway model, but it was with a LOT of LMR + dealing with flakiness. I've also long term FWB'd a cute 6/10 while I've been able to fuck other (ugly) 3/10 4/10 plates on the side with. Once I reach my max, I will probably be able to fuck 8/9's with alot of LMR, maintain a 7/10 LTFWB and fuck 5/6 outta 10 plates.

I dont "provide" for these girls monetarily, but I do with comfort / emotions.

[–]Endorsed Contributorsadomasochrist[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Cleared by two ECs to post (they're not giving their approval, but blessing). It's not directed at functional AFCs. This is for the people that are starting to cause trouble at TRP.

I don't think you're within the beta paradigm at all to be honest. I think you have a very healthy (mentally speaking, not in terms of results) amount of humbleness that if anything has limited you.

You're the rare example of a guy who isn't NPD who still has enough confidence to spin plates, even if you admit they're not hot. And to be frank, MOST men on here overstate the attractiveness and lack of dysfunction of their plates.

I agree that you are on track to start doing very well.

The best way I can phrase a "high beta" is to think of what a conventionally attractive man is, on a site like Hooking Up Smart.

They're going to say be high income, high status, LTR oriented and more or less be a low neediness "nice guy." So what we all grew up to understand as being a good end point, marriage material dude.

Of course we learned this is a dogshit approach, but the guys that do that, at the top, are high betas. The highest beta honor goes to Elon Musk.

Classic example of attitude, mindset and society set against him.

Casey is another great example because if you remove his status and money, he'd be sending a hundred messages on OKC. But he'd still be okay with beta game.

I do not believe, unless Casey was a criminal type, he'd have any STR success, at all. So therefor, I think he's a great example as well as Elon.

You are lacking in physical STR traits if you're not jacked because you're "not tall" (but you're not short). You're muscles and social game away from maxing out I'd say.

[–]BurnoutRS 50 points51 points  (7 children)

I have post concussive syndrome. For those who dont know what that means, it means I had a concussion approximately 1 year and 8 months ago and the symptoms didnt just go away as with most concussions.

Noise and light sensitivity keeps me out of bars and clubs? Thats what day game is for

Cant commit to plans because i never know whether im going to wake up with a 10/10 migraine or not? Makes it easier to play hard to get, blow chicks off and maintain my frame of doing me, focusing on my recovery.

The worst one, exercise intolerance. Know what its like to run for more than 10 seconds? I dont. In fact, a 10 second sprint is a fucking milestone for me. About 2 months ago was the first time i was able to sprint for 10 seconds without getting a migraine so bad that i had to end my day and go to sleep. So I dont go to the gym right? Dead fucking wrong. Got myself back up to half the volume i was lifting at before the accident. 3 exercises, 4 sets each, 2x a week. The end goal is to get myself back to doing 4 sets of 6 exercises, 4x a week.

Everytime I workout when my heart rate increases and blood pressure starts climbing, my headache intensifies. It gets so bad that sometimes i cant drive after a workout because as far as im concerned, im legally drunk off concussion symptoms. Doesnt matter one bit because 19 year old me knew the value of a good home gym.

You know what girls really love? The guy who survived a crazy car accident and doesnt mope about it or bitch about his symptoms, but instead describes the accident like it was a thrill ride at six flags. I walked away from getting hit at 150kmph. Spinal cord injury, brain injury... Who the fuck cares. If i showed you the pictures of the wreck, every one of you would say its a miracle im alive at all

Everytime I see one of those instadefeatist incel posts I fucking laugh. "boohoo, i was born with a slightly irregular face and im not 6feet tall" I cant fucking do math anymore. I do grade school style workbooks because i have to fucking relearn to do math like i was able to before the accident. And yknow, i dont even know shit about disability. My aunt has fucking MS and cant even take a shit by herself.

Whether you think you can, or you think you cant, youre right.

[–]1OneRedSock 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Whether you think you can, or you think you cant, youre right.

Literally the fundamental flaw with all incels.

I met one not too long ago. My brother's roommate. The kid clearly has some level of autism. I say kid because, while he's in his early/mid 30s (although looks like in his 40s), he has all the signs of the social maturity of a 9 year old.

He complains and bitches about literally everything in his life. So of course his attitude in other realms of his life flow into his attempted sexual exploits. It is really sad to meet one in person, because you can see how much they've quit. They've hit a psychological barrier that, instead of authentically looking at themselves for real improvements that might lead them to what they really want, they find it much easier to wallow in their bullshit. Because it's easier to wallow in self-pity and bullshit than to actually take responsibility for how one looks and interacts in the social realm.

The guy could get a haircut, keep himself clean-shaven, dress in appropriate clothes, put some god damn muscle on and he could raise his SMV 3-4 points; easy. However, similar to all incels, what might be a physical improvement of nearly 100%, would be almost immediately negated by his self-pity and general anger at the world for not getting the things he thinks he deserves. He doesn't. And no incel deserves it, because instead of putting time into improvements, and exercising gumption and perseverance, they find reasons for their failure.

They are quitters, and there's nothing you can do to help a quitter until they decide they want to take responsibility and push themselves towards being a winner. Some people never become winners, and that's just the nature of the beast. I certainly won't waste any more words on them.

[–]185poundsofhatredWIP 2 points3 points  (0 children)

If I was hot and had bad migraines most of the time, I would be getting laid too.

[–]improvising1 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Bookmarked to review whenever my inner autist gets out of control.

[–]ArchWig 1 points1 points [recovered]

Exactly how much does lifting weights improve your chances with women? I've been doing it for two years now at 5'5", 140 lbs 11% bodyfat.

My lifts are currently:

Squat: 335 lbs. Bench (paused): 245 lbs. Deadlift: 415 lbs.

I mean those are alright for someone my size, but then again women aren't really lining up to sleep with a jacked midget.

[–]Endorsed Contributormallardcove 82 points83 points  (38 children)

Lifting isn't supposed to attract women like moths to a flame. It's not a magic task you do every week that draws women in like a magnet.

Lifting and not being fat or skinny fat simply allows you to get more feet in the door. That's it. You still have to run game, not be an autist, and know how to talk to women and pass shit tests. Plenty of lifters strike out with women because they have no game to back up their body.

I get far more female attention and IOIs at my current stats than I did when I was a skinny fat loser. But I still have to do the legwork after I get the IOIs.

[–]420KUSHBUSH 35 points36 points  (4 children)

You still have to run game, not be an autist, and know how to talk to women and pass shit tests. Plenty of lifters strike out with women because they have no game to back up their body.

This, a thousand times this. No matter how attractive someone is they can always be creepy to a girl. A girl told me a story of her meeting up with some semi famous Instagram weightlifter or some such thing out of curiosity. She said he was very handsome only problem was he told her he wanted her to have his children and bought her gifts

That turned out about as well as you'd expect. It is an extreme but still, never be a sperg

[–]bpjsdrp 4 points5 points  (1 child)

That Instagram Lifter story....what the fuck.

[–]420KUSHBUSH 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You took the words right out of my mouth

[–]MrBean54 5 points6 points  (1 child)

For women, calling men creepy is like breathing. They will call a hot guy creepy but at the end f the day still be down to fuck. It literally means nothing.

[–]Endorsed ContributorBluepillProfessor 7 points8 points  (0 children)

You still have to run game

Especially at 5'5" make no mistake! However, a jacked, confident manlet has a chance in PUA and can do just fine. A skinny/fat manlet has no chance whatsoever.

To be honest these numbers are impressive and Archwig would be better served by practicing game/cocky/funny rather than doubling down on lifting.

[–]ArchWig 1 points1 points [recovered]

How tall are you?

The thing with lifting is that it helps tall guys the most.

The women who are into muscular guys are likely to just be into masculine guys in general. Height is a masculine trait. If you tower over men you're going to be masculine and wanted by those women.

The problem is that there aren't a lot of tall, actually muscular guys so the muscular and tall guys get their pick.

Until I can change my height, my feet will never get in the door to most women. On my campus, the average woman is 5'6", average male is around 6 ft. Most women are going to discount me on my height alone, regardless of how muscular I am or what I have going for me. It's just a reality and coping my way out of it isn't going to change anything.

[–]Nerobravo 13 points14 points  (6 children)

Your height will hurt you, but it wont hurt you that much. I'm 5'5" and never had any trouble pulling HB7-8s. How attractive are you in the face? That will hurt you more than your height will. Also touching on the topic of muscles on short guys, I'll just say this: I'm deployed right now so i've put on at least 15lbs of muscle and I've noticed chicks out here straight up eye fucking me while im working out next to dudes 6'+ who are, in my opinion, fairly muscular.

additionally, those are pretty impressive numbers for your size my man. keep it up

[–]ssprinnkless 2 points3 points  (0 children)

If anything being a bit shorter makes the weight show up faster as a more muscular physique.

[–]Endorsed Contributorsadomasochrist[S] 9 points10 points  (10 children)

I'm disputing the posts this guy is making, I know your situation and agree with your position to a degree.

The guy at your height "pulling" is very very very rare. Like, absolute god tier level game.

That's why I'm saying that in your case, a girl who is 5'4" would rather have you be a dependable, male romantic, that she'd probably treat exactly like we all know on here.

But that doesn't mean you need to settle down with her, you feel me?

Have you tried beta game after your transformation? Are you talking to women plenty?

What kind of IOIs etc?

[–]ArchWig 1 points1 points [recovered]

Have you tried beta game after your transformation?

What is beta game? Is that just befriending a girl and hoping it transitions into a relationship?

Are you talking to women plenty?

I mostly talk with women I meet from friends, from kickboxing or from class. Haven't asked out too many women because I don't get much IoIs, and I can't really flirt with someone who isn't at least willing to accept some of it.

[–]Endorsed Contributorsadomasochrist[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

FYI, the bottom 80% is still most men. So there is no reason why you shouldn't be shooting for a life that could be considered normal.

And a normal male has some 5-7 partners in their lifetime, not zero.

And a normal male is overweight.

There are not A LOT of women from 5'-5'4", but I think you could be their BB and I don't think that's terrible.

I've heard of this 5'3" indian, I think we all have. But really, outside of Kevin Hart and that other short black comedian, let's be real here.

[–]RedFoxRunner148 4 points5 points  (0 children)

This post reminded me of you. The guy is short and not white, except he kills it with women


[–]Endorsed ContributorBluepillProfessor 2 points3 points  (1 child)

they see a guy romantically within the first encounter, so doing this is not effective.

Yes, Beta Game is NOT effective. What OP is saying is that Beta Game can increase your contacts with women, which will increase your confidence with women, which will result in more Alpha(ish) Fucks than if you tried to be in congruent from the beginning and play a Red Pill Rambo.

[–]Chaddeus_Rex 0 points1 point  (0 children)

which will result in more Alpha(ish) Fucks

I don't understand how running beta game gives a man AF? It goes against everything TRP teaches.

[–]josecansecu 1 point2 points  (0 children)

He explains beta game in the post, dude. You’re whining here in the comments and didn’t even read the post?

[–]Endorsed Contributorsadomasochrist[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

We agree, that's why I want to talk to you.

You can't be AF, I agree.

Can you tell me about your strategy and what IOIs you are getting, I mean just tell me about your life man.

I'm not here to sell you bullshit, I'm here to give you the real deal. I live in the world of theory, and the theory was clear, you exist, as an actor in the system.

That being said, I believe that someone like you should be able to land a girl who is 5'4" basically. Just not as AF.

So I agree with you, trying to work red pill aware, AF game isn't going to work for you. But I think if you use mainstream blue pill game that you could hook someone.

[–]Senor_Martillo 1 point2 points  (1 child)

You could move to Guatemala....people are seriously short there

[–]NotMyBestEffort 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Wait. Are you dismissing mindset as part of the 80/20 that you have control over? It sounds like it and guaranteed the self talk you have running in your noggin has tremendous effect on how you interact with people. Effect is magnified by a pedestalized woman.

[–]Batmansiphone 1 points1 points [recovered]

True, im 6'4, before gym I was like a toothpick. Had about 0 interest from girls, 6 months of training my ass off and eating every 2 hours as much as i could i had managed to put on 15kg and girls who had previously rejected me were sleeping with me purely because of looks.

[–]Atheist_Utopia 8 points9 points  (1 child)

Dude you are 6'4, ofcourse tall and muscular is going to get you laid. That's like the best combination you could possibly get.

[–]1empatheticapathetic 3 points4 points  (0 children)

It'd be cool if he owned a gun as well.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Read the Mystery Method. You can find a free pdf online

[–]TRP_mask 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah well fuck me then, I'm an autist. Thanks for the confidence there

[–]Dragon_Garoo 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Let's put it this way: Never believe a woman that says she doesn't like muscles on a man. Dead lie.

[–]Endorsed Contributorsadomasochrist[S] 5 points6 points  (71 children)

You're there. Are you trying AF game or beta game?

I mean are you actually incel though?

[–]ArchWig 1 points1 points [recovered]

Yeah I'm a kissless virgin.

You can't be alpha and 5'5".

[–][deleted] 29 points30 points  (27 children)

I'm calling bullshit.

I also kickbox competitively.

You're Alpha as fuck, dude. With the numbers you listed, you should be fucking slaying. You're stepping on your own dick, doubtless.

[–]GR8AGN 12 points13 points  (11 children)

Lifting no matter how tall you are improves your chances with woman. I’d rather be short and jacked, than short and skinny

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (5 children)

Being short, jacked and a good fighter has helped me in other ways, particularly getting respect from men and not being a target of bullies (which used to happen, even during my first year of Uni before I started training). I'd never go back to being skinny.

But it hasn't helped with women.

[–]Self-honest 3 points4 points  (0 children)

What are you doing proactively to help yourself with women?

[–]WISE_TURD 4 points5 points  (3 children)

I like this rule of thumb: if men respect you, women will fuck you.

From the looks of my grandparents, i'll one day be pretty much bald. Does this mean I go lock down a chick asap before all my worth is depleted? Fuck no. Why? Because I know I could still respect a man that didn't have hair. Therefore, women will fuck a man without hair. Not saying that you can be fat and poor af, but that one aspect alone won't fuck you.

Danny devito definitely gets laid.

Work on your game and be as objective as possible about how you can increase game, looks, and assets.

You mentioned not getting ioi's, but you should really just be approaching until you're better at recognizing ioi's. I'd work on game/socializing in general and focus on crushing school.

If you can't control something, don't worry about it. Google "circle of control circle of concern". Thinking height is all that matters as a short person is a limiting belief. There's really nothing you can do about it. Maybe wear some chelsea boots or something with a slight heel, but other than that, fuck it. Just ditch any belief that isn't going to serve you.

Work on the aspects of smv with the highest return on investment, not necessarily the one that's lowest (in your inherently subjective opinion).

Read models by mark manson.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Bingo, women ride herd on male dominance heirarchies.

[–]hb8only 1 points1 points [recovered]

Danny devito definitely gets laid.

great example of the AAA hollywood actor.. LOL.. imagine DD working at walmart.. - so much sex with hot girls, right..?

[–]WISE_TURD 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's the point. He's an example of someone possessing traits other than looks buoying his smv.

[–]daydreamin511 7 points8 points  (4 children)

Facts. My home boy is 5'8 and his girl is 6'0. We were hanging out one time and we were talking about their height difference and she said that the height doesn't really matter BECAUSE he's basically the size of a bear and he's muscular af so she still feels protected and tiny. Key word is that she acknowledges he's short but his size basically negates that it. A short man basically has to make the taller girl feel tinier. If you're short and skinny then you're losing.

[–]bizzabiz100 2 points3 points  (0 children)


Exact situation with my ex who had 2’ on me and loved wearing heels

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

If you're short and skinny then you're losing.

I wish you are right.. but.. one of my onetis (HB9 19yo Eastern europe slim fit chick) is dating one small 25yo boy with weight about 45kg.. nobody understand wtf is going on (no, no money, no status..) so sometimes you can get lucky even being short and skinny...

[–]daydreamin511 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Like anything, there's always an outlier and nothing is absolute. But for the most part, skinny and short guys lose more often than not.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Its more probably since he is handsome in the face.

[–]xiannnnnn 1 points1 points [recovered]

I’m 5’5

I’ve never been jacked or remotely muscular to the degree you’ve described of yourself.

Yet, I lost my virginity at 14 and my N count is 20+ and they’ve all been relatively attractive females.

I just read that you’re not even willing to try to flirt with a woman because you don’t receive indicators of interest? You’re not getting laid because you’re not willing to take a shot and because you’re so caught up on the idea that you’re short and will forever be a lossless virgin?

Sounds like a poor me syndrome.

[–]Self-honest 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Agreed. We're in the same boat. The way I see it is, I want hot pussy, I make it fucking happen. My best friend is 6'3" and pussy will just come to him. It used to piss me off. I'm naturally more charming. I can't win at his game, he can't win at mine.

[–]185poundsofhatredWIP 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Maybe you're hot in the face.

[–]Endorsed Contributorsadomasochrist[S] 3 points4 points  (5 children)

That was the point of my post, it's written for you. Can you reread it and give me your thoughts, this is absolutely 100% for you.

[–]Dirachi 3 points4 points  (4 children)

Hey Sadomasochrist,

Thankyou so much for writing this post. I lurk heavily on the subreddit, but this well-reasoned post and your engagement in the comments about something I struggle with internally motivated me to reply.

My stats: 22yo, 165cm, 62kg, high teens BF DL: 95kg, SQ: 70kg Pretty decent face Final year medschool (Western, non-US means great pay and no debt straight out)

Admittedly, im not as aesthetic as Archwig, I've only picked my sorry self up in the last 6 months.

If I follow correctly, you are recommending running provider game to lure average women into a lite-relationship where she provides short term enthusiastic sex to lock you down for the long term.

So far this is the typical BP narrative, except being RP-aware we wouldn't be hurt if she bounces for a better man or we would eject before it becomes too serious.

Have to admit, this has been my logical conclusion as the highest yield strategy for me as well!

Problem is that this strategy is incompatible with my Christian faith where I am supposed to exchange total socioeconomic commitment (enforceable) for exclusive, enthusiastic sex (unenforceable) via marriage.

Do you have any thoughts about my situation, I've reached a logical impasse...

[–]Endorsed Contributorsadomasochrist[S] 1 point2 points  (3 children)

You can use an approach which I would call, agnostically skeptical.

Don't lie to anyone, but don't overshare. Consult your religious friends, and the thing about religion is it is open to interpretation. So ask a couple ways for the different issues.

What I mean is this.

Let's say you're worried about stringing a girl along. Are you really stringing her along? Or has she not shown you that she is certainly the one? How has she shown you that she is truly worthy?

How could she prove to you, that she'd be forever yours in heart and mind? How would she handle things if it came to that point?

Outrageously blue pill but you're afforded that out, given the situation. Worst case scenario, she tells you and everyone she knows that she'd always be yours, and if not, she'd abandon her religion.

She probably would, and leave your kids etc. Women will do that when faced with repercussions enforced socially, they'll just start over rather than drag you through the mud.

Just be cognizant of the social breakup scripts.

However, really, you don't need to be married. You just need to find someone that can give this to you in a religious translation. Regardless, you can work agnostically between yourself and your god with this.

Once you find that angle, you operate in that way. A way in which you're not breaking your own moral code, technically.

As far as I'm aware, the older guys will have plenty of "outs" for you that are okay to use, and then you can operate within that framework and remain true to yourself.

I am not a believer, but this is how I believe the red pill aware types operate within churches. Liberal application of doctrine, in their favor.

[–]Dirachi 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Thanks for the detailed reply man. What are the social breakup scripts though?

[–]Endorsed Contributorsadomasochrist[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Be aware when she's starting to bait you for a break up. Guys at MRP call it "killing the puppy." Talk to them about that.

Basically you can operate above the table, but when the time comes, she'll play dirty and you have to be ready.

[–]Raikkonen716 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You can't be alpha and 5'5"

Tell that to Putin.

Hey man, i completely understand your position and your frustration. It's true, girl love tall guys, but that's only one part of the many factors that come into the equation. It's not that one who isn't tall can't get laid. I'm 5'7'' myself, and i slay.

I have a friend of mine who is 5'5'' himself, i fucking like him because he has a mindset of "king of the universe", he goes to the gym (btw he has nearly zero muscle mass), has a mega ego, like 5000% the energy of an average dude and guess what, he slays.

So, get out of your victim mindset. It's useless, it won't get you anywhere. It's up to you to decide if it's worth overthinking the dynamics of the dating scene or just improve, have courage to go out, and go for it.

[–]RavelsBolero 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You can't be alpha and 5'5".

Yes you can. Smartest and strongest guy I know is like this height. went to a top 3 university in the UK, squats more than I weigh, he also built real strength at his height. I mean he can bicep curl 40kg whilst being this small.

He is confident, has a gf who he lives with, and is shortly going to do a PhD. He's done bar work and had girls flirt with his in nightclubs, is in peak physical condition.

Unless you're in the netherlands where every girl is 6'1+, you have a chance.

[–]Self-honest 3 points4 points  (4 children)

You're fucking delusional. Take charge. That's what makes someone "alpha." Nobody is the alpha in every situation.

[–]ArchWig 1 points1 points [recovered]

Alpha is about being seen as traditionally masculine, a leader of men. My being the same height as your average woman makes it really hard to be seen as traditionally masculine, by both women and men.

Very few people take short people seriously. Even after demonstrating strength or winning a kickboxing match, I get the good old, "You're pretty strong/you're a good fighter, for a little guy." The end statement is always there to remind me of my place in society. People don't like others who are smaller than them telling them what to do, which is why women also have problems being seen as leaders.

[–]Self-honest 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Very few people take short people seriously.

I'm 5'6" and everybody takes me seriously.

for a little guy." The end statement is always there to remind me of my place in society.

What place in society? I was talking to my dad earlier tonight. This mother fucker sings like Freddy Mercury. He said sometimes when he would sing amongst friends and acquaintances, someone would always make a comment like, "don't quit your day job." He thought they were assholes and didn't want to hang out with them. I told him that they were doing whatever they could to reorganize the social hierarchy because they saw him elevating himself. He didn't have a "place." Everybody is always going to try to place you beneath them whether you're short or tall. They may leave a guy alone that is huge and intimidates them. You don't belong in a place unless you accept it as your place.

People don't like others who are smaller than them telling them what to do

People don't like anybody telling them what to do. Everybody wants to be on top. They just find it easier to push shorter guys back down because a lot of shorter guys have accepted themselves as lesser. I have been guilty of this at times. I only hurt myself by not having a stronger frame. You can bring as much value to the table as you want.

[–]just_wannabe_happy 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I am also on the shorter side but no where nearly as built as you. Heightism is real no doubt but dont let it get to your head too much. That diminished self-confidence is probably more detrimental than the height itself. I would still keep trying though because the more you try the more likely it is that it works out. Maybe the first few lays will open the floodgates. And even if you don't end up an 'alpha fucks' or whatever you can still get women. I have a low n count but I have had relationships and I am better off for it. Even if you don't end up sleeping with huge numbers of women surely its better to sleep with a few, to have some relationships, to experience love and intimacy than to go completely without. Dont give up man, just keep going. Be analytical about your shortcomings and proactively solve them. You will succeed.

[–]Nerobravo 2 points3 points  (0 children)

"You're pretty strong/you're a good fighter, for a little guy."

They feel threatened by you. They say this to maintain a foothold over you. The truth is you're probably pound for pound way stronger than they are and could probably kick their ass. You need to understand this and don't let it break your frame.

[–]reecewagner 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Bud you're like 2 inches shorter than Tom Cruise. I have no idea what you're doing wrong but your body ain't it.

[–]thetotalpackage7 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Tell that to Joseph Benavidez. He is married to Megan Olivi, The UFC girl. I would rate Megan as an 8 to 8.5. He is also an inch shorter than you . Watch some video on how he carries himself. Does he care that he is 5'4"? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8z-T2qwNAQ

There is no excuse for someone who is in shape and has an "average" face (your words) to be a kissless virgin. You're not making enough effort to get pussy. They all don't have to be hotties. Take a fattie home for fucks sake and get off the schneide.

[–]PlanetoftheGrapes94 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I know a stocky insanely strong 5'5 alpha. Very outgoing and social and dominates conversation and brings in positive attention easily. It's all personality. Fake it to you make it. Work on social skills or you're doomed buddy.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Add in some game and you will change your life. I can absolutely guarantee that you are nervous with women. You think Demetrious Johnson has any problems getting laid? Dude you can be as ugly as Quasimodo with your stats and you will still get laid. You need to act like a cocky mother fucker, fake it til you make it. I used to be skinny AF years before TRP was even a thing. I learned game mainly by reading free websites and threads online then I practised. Within a couple of months of implementing nothing but game I was getting laid. I was over 40 and skinny, you are in shape and probably under 40, so there is no way you had more physical disadvantages than me. It is all in your head. Do daygame, nightgame, online hell even speed dating if you have to, just to get used to talking to lots of women in a cocky and confident manner. Maintain laser eye contact, hold their hand, give it a squeeze, if she squeezes back, she is ready for a kiss. Get out there

[–]SonOfSparda304 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I knew a guy shorter than you that didn't lift and still had great game. How? The answer is personality. He was the most upbeat sociable person I had ever met in my life and that was his default personality. YMMV, but don't put all your eggs in one basket especially if what you're doing isn't working.

[–]skunkarts[🍰] 2 points3 points  (12 children)

The guy I know who gets laid the most is 5'5". He spends a lot of time talking to girls, tinder, etc. The girls are always decently attractive. It was hard for me to believe when I met the guy and saw it happening myself, so I'm sure you likely won't believe me, but this guy basically dispelled any belief in the "incel" / "black-pill" thing for me.

[–]ArchWig 1 points1 points [recovered]

I always hear about these magical short guys who for some reason defy all odds and sleep with many girls.

I know a lot of other short dudes. Many of them are either virgins like I am, some have only been in one relationship their whole lives and a few do sleep around if they only target fat girls.

I've never met a man who is my height or shorter sleep around with decent women. The minimum height to do that is 5'8" and you better be built like a truck and have a top tier face.

[–]skunkarts[🍰] 3 points4 points  (1 child)

All I can tell you is I have no reason to lie to you. Like I said, he puts a lot of effort in to it - so the girls don't just come out of nowhere.

[–]cudder17 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is what i dont get, i always hear "dont focus on girls, focus on yourself and they will come"

then i hear things like this "he puts effort into it, so the girls dont just come out of nowhere"

so which one is it??

[–]Self-honest 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Sounds like you know a lot of bitch ass short dudes. Half of the chicks I've fucked have been my height or and inch or two taller. At 5'6" I would prefer a 5'1" chick to toss around, but girls are tiny either way. Tight asses, big asses, hand full of tits, tight pussy, something to smack, grab onto and smash. You have to want that shit and go get it. I'm not some magical short guy. Just charming ass hell and when I strongly desire some chick, she wants it. It's pretty fucking awesome man, you should try it.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I always hear about these magical short guys who for some reason defy all odds and sleep with many girls.

They aren't magical. They just have decent looking faces.

[–]1empatheticapathetic 0 points1 point  (3 children)

From your responses all over this thread you aren't really that hurt by your circumstances. You just wanna vent. You know you will get laid eventually because of all the work you've put in so far and it'll spiral into more confidence, you just don't know when that's going to happen.

Your inner game sucks. That definitely leaks out into interactions. I notice myself doing it all the time.

I do all the exact same things I've just described of you doing. Not kissless but essentially a virgin.

I had to move location to have any sort of SMV (not white, from a shitty area). Maybe if the competition is too much bullshit for now where you live try moving somewhere where your transferrable SMV outshines the locals.

[–]ArchWig 1 points1 points [recovered]

I stopped caring too much about four months ago. A few LSD and mushroom trios made me realize that my life is satisfying with or without women.

But I'm still a bit angry that I don't get to experience what others get to experience.

[–]1empatheticapathetic 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well you obviously still do care, you just admitted it.

I've been where you are bro. You will eventually actually stop caring and with that comes opportunities that you don't immediately ruin with your neediness. It's part of the process but you only get to that point through genuine frustration.

Have realistic standards of what you want and you will get some version of it at some point. Frame is truly the most important thing in attraction. I went on holiday last year with a bunch of ugly obese assholes, and they all did well with women because they just did not give any fucks. Where as I gave way too many. Keep working on your inner/outer game and frame. Good luck.

[–]jm51 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm 6 foot. Good looking, good genetics and have done ok with next to no game. I do (did) ok.

The only guys that ever did better than me were shorter. At the time, I put it down to women being less scared of them because they were pipsqueaks.

Turns out it was because they had more front. Who knew?

[–]extrasauceplz 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Everything you experience in all in your head. You create your reality. If you think girls don't like short guys, then they don't.

[–]chaseemall 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well, what's your body language like? Do you dress well?

[–]viral_left_stroke 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Literally my identical stats except your lifts are bigger than mine (I am super low BF tho) and I have zero problems pulling attractive women. As mentioned its not like they are lining up but once I get talking, you can just watch them start to melt. Enjoyable rush.

[–]youkickmyd0g 0 points1 point  (4 children)

Same height, been your weight but 130 now, you lift way more. No troubles. Check the mental. I give off dangerous/mean vibes, so I get some bad girls. The intellectual ones lead betas on and see me after their dates with them. In a tough city too, SF. I feel like by giving all your specs you're probably lacking in some kind of awareness. Cuz some chick knows/cares all that in the first 5 minutes/months of your relationship, right? :) Being kinda dickish, but what else? I cut my own hair, have barely shopped in 2 years, but I get some lays from my 5 super likes and random cafes and shit. Literally man, I look like shit and am a runt compared to you in a hard city. Try dropping to 130 and getting some numbers, it'll be a LOT harder... less eye contact, etc. I been 130-150 and in good shape for a while, mental is way more important. My Tinder alludes to not talking at all during our date. Overall, you probably look like a nice guy with a clean haircut in great shape... I look like I crawled out of an auto garage but smell like I make six figures.

[–]ArchWig 1 points1 points [recovered]

I tried Tinder and got no matches for a month. So either I'm also ugly or there's something else wrong.

[–]youkickmyd0g 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Do you have a nice haircut and dress well, as I suggested? You might need to fix that, ie. not do it. I used to do that, and in retrospect I was a try hard. I think there's a spot where you look like you could be a real boyfriend on Instagram but you're too short so they quit. But if you're too rough for Instagram then they might just become a plate on the sly and pretty much fuck as soon as she sits on your couch mid-afternoon and sober, after a 3rd date with a nice guy where he still didn't score (but she got fed).

[–]ArchWig 1 points1 points [recovered]

So have a sloppy look? That could be the problem. I guess with the way I dress and cut my hair I market myself as boyfriend material.

[–]youkickmyd0g 0 points1 point  (0 children)

To each their own, but yea that was a solution for me.

Boyfriend material feels like an insult, something to not be... when you consider that a boyfriend is in the provider role. Womens are independent, right, why do they need a provider? By default the guy must be a chump. No hot guy anywhere wants to be boyfriend material, and if he does that's the key reason he's single if better still options than him are around. If I were a hot chick used to dating hot guys and saw a dude dressing like he wanted a girlfriend, ___ insert blank here ___.

I don't wanna lay into your style, you gotta do you. I'm not like a grungy slop bag, astute observers can find things to complement... and that's the difference between an actual scrub. A cool guy has better senses, the attire may be down a notch but damn that fabric tho... feel me? I see a lot of kids who come in with brand new wardrobes all the time and you can tell they're tools, but I've always done like one nice thing with average stuff so nobody notices I'm getting new stuff. Then sometimes I'll dress up in stuff that doesn't look brand new and people are blown away, often unshaven or on a weekend/friday with that one.

[–]bizzabiz100 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Ok, I’m getting sick of this β€˜I’m too short bs’ from most everyone in this thread. In my opinion y’all are placing way too much emphasis in height. That’s not to say it doesn’t matter to some women, but honestly for most it’s not a deal breaker.

Personal story:

I’m 5’8– my ex gf was a long legged skinny 5’10 blonde who loved wearing heels. You know how I got her? I never made height a factor. She told me when we first started seeing each other how it annoyed her that so many guys stressed about their height, and that she was attracted to me because I never appeared self conscious about our difference. At the time we had met, I had just gotten really disciplined with the gym so my confidence was at an all time high. This is the key factorβ€” confidence. If you think you’re β€˜too short’ for a girl, then she’s going to think the same. Just stop giving a fuck and go after the women you want. If you get turned down try again. Plenty of my buddies who are shorter than me have beautiful women, some have even settled down with them. If you’re striking out, change your excuse from β€˜I’m too short’ to β€˜I have no game’... because that’s most likely your problem.

Best of luck

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (22 children)

Transitioning from a boy into a man means that you take time to remove fear, excuses, and obstacles from your path. Incels that are complaining, whining, blaming, and bitching have not crossed the threshold. To fully mature takes years, but, damn, when you get there, it is worth it.

[–]300iqman 5 points6 points  (11 children)

Lifting isn't really helping me that much... I'm a 20 year old kissless virgin and I have never gotten an IOI in any scene, just like when I was skinny at 18.

I don't want to be a whiny incel but I really don't fucking understand my failure. 3.5/10 face, 6'2 where 6'0 is average, athletic body whereas skinny is most common here, white in a white majority area... I'm below average looking but not by much? As for game, I usually just try at clubs with girls in my league but it's not working. I have massive IDGAF attitude because of my general apathy towards life and my many, many rejections. I usually try to escalate rather quickly too, to not waste time. Have been reading TRP for 3 years too. What's my problem?

[–]Endorsed Contributorsadomasochrist[S] 4 points5 points  (3 children)

Inner game, 100%. Clubs are a spot for pros, stop that. You should be working social circle game. Women are keen to find men like you if you give them soft blue pill tells, stuff you'd read at Hooking Up Smart.

Don't scare them away, but let them know they can control a 6'2" guy for a little while, (they) pretend you are a contributor. Let them use you as a fantasy dildo.

You're trying to come off as a contributor, but you're not. You're hundreds or a thousand mental hours away from being able to pull that off. You can't honestly fake IDGAF, it's played out IRL now.

You can either not give a fuck, and have options, or reign in your neediness and offer a comfortable illusion for women.

Your trying to pretend to not give a fuck and women are picking you apart in milliseconds. Start somewhere, then build towards TRP.

You have the physical frame for it, now build the body and mind. But start by at least getting it in, and for that, I'd say you are better suited for traditional and mainstream dating advice.

YOU, are the exact person that BP people look at and go "TRP is fucking up these guys lives!"

There's a degree of truth to that. You are better suited, right now, to be the "beta boyfriend" that all BP women talk about in PPD and online. That when grilled, they find out you're 6'2".

So you should be presenting as a "natural." A blue pill, alpha male. Lift, and treat women well, but not "nice." You'll have a lot of women start to take notice.

Take in mind they will dump you, cheat on you and generally be trying to "mold" you. This is no different than men who look for "nice girl" and try to turn her into a whore.

Regardless, your strategy should be to present as a natural and from there, become a red pill aware, contributor. Then you can spin plates. But you're a long ways from that.

[–]red-adherent 2 points3 points  (2 children)

You are providing exceptional advice in this thread. It is all true, but here is the rub...

These incels (or anybody that is not top 10% really) were told their whole lives that they should go to school, work hard, go to college, get a degree job, get married, etc.....

After all this work, now you are giving them a new assignment. To most of them it seems like their life is a chore. A set of tasks to be completed from sun up to sun down. Hey I know life isn't fair but that is the truth of it.

It is a decision one has to make in life. I have not reconciled it myself, but for now I have zero interest in fucking them. I have been turning down this scenario over the last few years, not because I don't think it will work, but because I don't care anymore (even what I would consider an HB 6 or 7 last year)

The incels shouldn't be coming to TRP and spouting out their bullshit to get others on board with being incel. TRP also shouldn't be making posts specifically to shame them.

This sub is for sexual strategy, you can apply it or not, the incels need to shut the fuck up if they are not interested....but you are also wasting space on this sub trying to shame them. They need to understand life isn't fair, provide them the info, they can use it or disregard it. If they are fucking the sub up, we should just ban them.

But I think the betas have had enough shaming. I also think red pillers have heard enough from the incels who come here to cry and whine.

We should stay on topic, if incels don't want to get on board, fuck em and ban them.

[–]red-adherent 1 point2 points  (1 child)

YOU, are the exact person that BP people look at and go "TRP is fucking up these guys lives!"

Because they would be better off pretending to play Billy Beta, to pretend like they are interested in these woman's lives, so they can pretend like the woman likes them, so they can have sex with them for the pump and dump? (btw I wouldn't recommend this in your social circle)

Do you think this is validating behavior, that it makes them feel good?

I am actually disgusted by sex that is obtained in this manner. I should take a hoe out on dates, the type of hoe that sucks dudes off in the bathroom at the club...this is validating behavior? This makes people feel good?

And I will/do fuck hookers without any hesitation, it is the honesty of the situation, very freeing, my best sexual experiences by far. Not because the girls were hotter, but because I didn't have to pretend and neither did they.

Fucking put in exceptional amounts of work for emasculating sex with used up whores, is that it?

Just fucking ban them.

[–]red-adherent 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Sisyphus wasn't a story about the greek gods.

Go to school beta, get a degree beta, go get a horrifically boring job beta, give me tax dollars beta, here is your post wall skank that you can fuck for a year or two before you get divorce raped (don't worry that wasn't cum dribbling out of her mouth during your dinner date)...

actually beta, go lift, pick up dark triad traits, approach thousands of woman to strengthen your ability to take insults, treat them like disposable tampons, lie to them...tired yet?

Look at this shit I read recently. Silicon Valley is essentially a torture chamber for betas. There are very few girls there in the first place, the vast majority of their earnings go towards rent for sky high real estate prices which means they don't save anything, they work extremely long hours, if they even think about fucking a hooker they are shamed and jailed as sex traffickers. And oh ya, don't forget their tax dollars actually fund the very same task force that is used to jail them.


You can't even make this stuff up. You know what, in fact, I just may find a way to go full sociopath on them.

[–]Self-honest 2 points3 points  (4 children)

Shit dude. Probably your:

general apathy towards life

Does that sound like someone anybody would want to hang out with? Fucking is fun. I don't want to fuck a sad loser bitch either.

[–]300iqman 0 points1 point  (3 children)

I'm obviously keeping that to myself, I'm not retarded. What else?

[–]Self-honest 2 points3 points  (2 children)

You are retarded if you think you can have apathy towards life and hide it from people. If I have general excitement about my life and you are apathetic, and we are both "keeping it to ourselves," it will be pretty obvious to females we're hanging around who is the fun one they want to go home with.

[–]Endorsed ContributorBluepillProfessor 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Understand the fundamental laws of attraction in the universe as well as the laws of romantic attraction on TRP.

In the universe we attract what is similar to our mental state. If you are in the doldrums and depressed you will attract downers in your life. If you are fun/happy/active you will attract fun/happy active to your life.

[–]300iqman 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I can hide it from people, yes. It requires energy, but I'm able to pull it off.

[–]xtsv 1 points1 points [recovered]

The male to female birth ratio is 105 male births per 100 female births. (This isn't taking China/India into account) so 1 in 21 males is bound to be lonely, stop feeding people this bullshit that there is always a chance, because there isn't unless you are willing to get cucked in an "open relationship" with a landwhale.

[–]3LiveAFTSOV 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Plating / FWBing is literally an open relationship

[–]FaderOne 5 points6 points  (3 children)

The format of this could’ve been a little cleaner… I like the overall message… I don’t like you saying that men with these characteristics can never spin plates, that’s terrible advice and it’s not true.

Fuck it I started with all of these when I came to TRP years ago… Eventually I just started spinning plates (all of low numbers) and I worked my way up. You might have shitty plates at the beginning but with time experience and practice you’ll be able to upgrade your number by one then again and again and again.

[–]Endorsed Contributorsadomasochrist[S] 3 points4 points  (2 children)

There's plenty of guys who have a couple deficits with themselves and do OKAY or the few, chosen few, who despite, slay. You've decided, through rigorous analysis, that you will never.

FINE. This one post is for you.

I posted this for the person who can not otherwise be convinced, so they at least make their way to AFC, or what is now called "reformed incel." From there, they can learn sexual strategy.

And I would say in the 5'5" range for a guy, there's a lot more guys that if they were 5'8" would be doing OKAY that are as they say "kissless virgins."

Physical dimorphism is basically #1, it's prerequisite for all intents and purposes.

[–]cherryCanSuckMyDick 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Physical dimorphism is basically #1, it's prerequisite for all intents and purposes.

so theres literally no point in trying if youre short

[–]Kommanderdude 4 points5 points  (4 children)

No excuses. Dude at my gym is about 5’8 and has two prosthetic legs from the knee down. He benches 225 lbs for reps and dates a HB7. Stop making fucking excuses.

[–]JKlatch 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Hah, 2 prosthetic legs? Dude could make himself 6' if he wanted!

[–]1empatheticapathetic 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Why stop there. 7ft is the new 6.

[–]Endorsed Contributormallardcove 20 points21 points  (8 children)

Casey Neistat is one of the most subscribed to YouTubers in the world, he has all the status he needs. I also don't think he is that unattractive for a man, he has a style that works for him.

The issue with this post is that incel losers aren't going to read it. Because it doesn't make them feel good. Incel losers are incel losers because they would rather people pat them on the back and tell them its OK and sympathize with them, rather than actually put in the work. What you posted here is too much work. It's a lot easier to wallow and say woe-is-me than to start the long road of redeeming yourself and maxing out your SMV.

That's why so many incel losers go MGTOW. MGTOW gives them an out. MGTOW is simply incels who celebrate the fact that they are incel, so incels are attracted to it like moths to a flame because it gives them hamstering rationalization. It's the SMP equivalent of "You can't fire me, I quit".

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (0 children)

incel losers go MGTOW

Those are not incels. MGTOWers are mostly 40-50yo+ men who bought into the betabux advice given when they were younger and got divorce raped and in the end are very very bitter about it.

[–]Endorsed ContributorBluepillProfessor 2 points3 points  (2 children)

This is a valuable contribution. "Alpha Up" is a call to run and get some tang. A lot of men are not able to even walk, much less run because they first need to get off their knees.

I think the main suggestion is to include some Beta Game in your Alpha up campaign so that you remain congruent and it makes sense to me.

[–]Endorsed Contributorsadomasochrist[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Appreciate it, was concerned what you guys would think... well... because beta game.

[–]Endorsed ContributorBluepillProfessor 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It is TERRIBLE advice for the typical guy. For the Incels....I don't know what can help- but this is the first attempt I have ever seen that even tried. Hopefully some incel types can chime in and let us know what part of this works, if anything.

I certainly didn't come up with my 12 stages of Dread with one post and a few responses. It takes hundreds of posts and thousands of comments before you start seeing the patterns about what works and what doesn't work.

[–]Aphoc 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This might be a good inclusion to your post

I'm an honest, bona fide autistic, with a mom who taught Senator Palpatine in Machiavellism and a nice guy dad so invisible, some argue he never existed.

I did your step by step, not having redpilled in the slightest

14 years ago, I could barely look people in the eyes, receive physical contact, or be in a room with lots of people without 'sperging.

8 years ago(16), I started to research for ways to get popular, because I was always lowest in the hierarchy and I wanted friends, and change. NEEDED change.

2-3 years later, I read 'the game', found a crew I could go drink with regularly, got a job in telemarketing, and moved in with a PUA buddy.

For the next 2 years, I would quite literally go for what many would consider zero, to a hero, not realizing I started out in much worse circumstances.

Incels, they don't know how little effort they have to put in everyday, because they can't see themselves harvesting the fruits of their labour 2 years from now.

they just dont want to admit they had a flaw, that they can actually do something about right now, and turn their life around COMPLETELY in less than 1000 days, but they're just too weak of character.

And you know what those people always do? They always bitch about their mediocrity, come up with excuses, deflect, whatabout'isms. Then they get bitter when others do better.

Do or do not motherfucker, there is no try. Be a beast or a bitch.

[–]Self-honest 4 points5 points  (12 children)

Good post. I do think height can be mitigated more than disability, ugliness, and the rest. I'm 5'6". If you are short, ripped, good looking, stylish, charming, financially successful, and have never found a woman, you just aren't trying. Admittedly, I am not even all of those things. With a little game chicks slip me their number without me even asking for it.

I'll admit if I played some shameless "beta game" I could probably double my 2018 lays. I have definitely missed chances to fuck with a girl who was looking for something more and didn't see me as "AF." I've also smashed and plated chicks that way. You get less forgiveness for beta behavior at my height. But honestly it has just pushed me to become more masculine. My frame is my frame. I'll take the L on chicks that only want me to be their BB. I'm happier with dripping wet pussy. I also enjoy the challenge.

If I was an incel, I would definitely try the whole beta pump and dump game though. 100% guarantee it will get you laid. You gotta start somewhere guys. Or either shut the fuck up, as OP so eloquently stated.

[–]Endorsed Contributorsadomasochrist[S] 6 points7 points  (11 children)

5'6" is not a death sentence, average female height

[–]Sirkisskindofman 2 points3 points  (3 children)

You really are a pos asshole. +1

[–]Endorsed Contributorsadomasochrist[S] 2 points3 points  (2 children)

I'm not here to give men who have prospects the validation that they aren't fucking up their lives. I'm here to give validation to the guys who are going to lead difficult lives, hope for a life worth living.

From there, maybe they can do the "Kevin Hart" program.

[–]Sirkisskindofman 1 point2 points  (1 child)

All i'm saying is your collar-gripping narrative is a bit caustic. I get why, hence my upvote. Feels good to be awake tho, don't it

[–]Endorsed Contributorsadomasochrist[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Appreciated. Was a risky post.

[–]Self-honest 1 point2 points  (6 children)

Truth. It's all perspective though. The times in my life that I thought it really mattered, I had a long dry spell. The times I was just happy being me, I killed it.

[–]Endorsed Contributorsadomasochrist[S] 1 point2 points  (5 children)

I've got a PM from a guy that is 4'11", this guy deserves to be told alternate strategy. The Kevin Hart program is not feasible for every man who is shorter than the median woman. It's just straight math.

[–]Self-honest 0 points1 point  (4 children)

Yeah for sure. I was talking about being around 5'6". Still, the alternate strategy is a perspective game. They will only find success if they stop feeling pathetic. No amount of steps and game will overcome the stench of someone who thinks they're a loser.

[–]Endorsed Contributorsadomasochrist[S] 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Another user suggested a flow chart and I agree. There's a couple weird use cases that are fucking things up around here.

There was a post about a guy being 5'6" with prosthetic legs. Still not written for that guy either.

This is for the guys that are not dysfunctional retards, but instead playing their cards wrong. They're either trying to run before walking, or they are being fed misinformation.

A guy at 5'5" has a tough deck, at 5'4" he's got a REALLY tough deck. WAY harder than the 5'6" guy with his legs blown off.

It's a big deal, and these guys need to be given a point when it's a point, not just told to lift more.

That being said, there ARE guys in here that I've said that to. This is an algorithm that has a lot of moving parts, and some guys just aren't reading where they're deficient in the right spots.

Absolutely I'd say incels need a flowchart, this seems to be the autism seeping into here.

[–]Self-honest 1 point2 points  (2 children)

I think a flow chart would be beneficial to those that are finding no success. If they are trying and have a healthy mindset. It just seems to me that they need to believe they can have success to be able to find it.

[–]Endorsed Contributorsadomasochrist[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Some of them, though. And also, "healthy mindset" might mean starting out in blue pill land. Some of these guys are in their 20s and haven't got it in yet, and we're going to couch them for a ONS? Doesn't even make sense.

[–]Self-honest 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No, you're absolutely right.

[–]just_wannabe_happy 5 points6 points  (0 children)

"If you have some serious deformity, you need something, somewhere. Height, status, dark traits (being a criminal scumbag etc)" Man, this is sad. Being a criminal or a scumbag should not be an attractive trait.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (1 child)

On my hike today, I was mulling a post like this. This one is way, way better than what I was going to produce.

I find it disgusting that incels would end up here. This is a sub about male sexual strategy. OP is bang on, and laid out the only strategy available to a fucking loser.

[–]FirstOleoresin 6 points7 points  (10 children)

I'm a 27 year old virgin. I've been rejected too many times to count. I have never even gotten friendzoned by a girl, just ghosted and ignored. I've never been approached or gotten an "IOI" from a girl, I'm totally invisible basically. I just don't have the tools or ability necessary to interact with and attract the opposite sex. I'm convinced that whatever higher power there is just did not intend me to have anything to do with women. It's not like I'm hideously ugly or don't take care of myself either. I'm 6'2, have good skin, good head of hair, low body fat. I think nature just never intended it for me.

I'm not saying this to complain or because I want pity. I'm just giving my two cents and saying that it isn't always as simple as just lifting and becoming "alpha". Some people (guys) just have no luck with the opposite sex. I don't hate my life and I have found other hobbies and things I enjoy doing. But sex/relationships are pretty much totally out of reach and impossible for me. I think I probably have a much better chance of winning the lottery at this point than ever getting a gf.

[–]Endorsed ContributorBluepillProfessor 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I'm convinced that whatever higher power there is just did not intend me to have anything to do with women.

That is your answer right there my friend. You need look no further.

[–]BirdManBrrrr 3 points4 points  (2 children)

Let me guess:

Likely a lukewarm personality that neither inspires nor repels...you don't give women any strong emotions...just meh. Boring. Yea, maybe you're a decent dude but zero tingles.

Your external locus of control isn't helping. Not saying you have a victim complex but you're clearly resigned to your fate and not indicating you're changing anything about yourself. Broads can sniff this shit out a mile away.

Ever take life by the balls? Ever get so angry you make a radical change and DGAF? I agree with /u/sadomasochrist, TRP is for you...you just gotta want it bad enough and do the work.

[–]corsega 4 points5 points  (2 children)

You don't have game. Guarantee it. If I were you take you under my wing, I would have you getting laid with 5 girls this year and 10 the next.

[–]Endorsed Contributorsadomasochrist[S] 4 points5 points  (2 children)

This post isn't written for you. TRP is actually right for you. Sort out your life and game. Your height card is something most men would trade a lot for.

You say low body fat, that means lift.

Take my rejection as a positive and realize you're wrong.

[–]wekacuck 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I've never understood why TRP is so anti-flowcharts/decision trees but damn like 99% of these orientation questions could be self-diagnosed correctly in 5sec.

[–]BassBaller 1 point2 points  (0 children)

lmfao @ getting a job in sales will get you laid. People in sales are some of the most beta, insecure, facade-creating people-pleasers I've ever met. Get real.

[–]DOUG2018 1 point2 points  (1 child)

They are basically split and there are many genuine guys in this positon. VERY blue pill post. If you agree with the 80:20 rule surely some men must lose out.

The issue is that many of their members are just whiny 18 year olds who are tall handsome dudes with some teen angst they will grow out of but there are so many men actually in this position ie short, ugly, poor mentally not perfect without natural charm who are incels. Its a significant proportion of men especially in societies like China or the Nordic countries with significant excess males.

[–]DOUG2018 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I know some dudes who are super ugly but being wealthy and with good jobs they can just about land women. Take away those opportunities and many poor slavic dudes in europe just cannot or poor guys in Thai villages after so many women married the foreigners.

Many of these dudes though on these forums who don't have mental health or autism issues could get their lives together and look for hyperganous females in poor countries the realist incels are hardly always literate dudes

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (7 children)

You are not, the ugliest man ever to have existed.

Doesn't matter. Its a "pass or fail" situation. Its like someone who gets a 40/100 course final average and laughs at that dude who gets a 10/100 and the requirement to pass is a 60/100. Can't pass the looks threshold? Its over.

[–]corsega 3 points4 points  (6 children)

There is no such thing as a looks threshold. It's a scale. You don't have looks? Compensate in other areas.

But compensating in other areas still won't get me as far as Chad Thundercock does naturally!

Tough. The world is a tough place. The only person you should be comparing yourself to is your past self.

[–]commander_zoidberg 1 point2 points  (5 children)

I'll start by admitting that yes. I am an incel.

You know i've held my tongue when it comes to dealing with TRPer's. I did sort of think of you as brothers in arms for a while, though i almost never posted here as i'm not an "alpha male" like all the "bros" here are. Many other incels say you are full of shit, i've always defended you. I've even personally advised some younger incels (14-18 years of age) to learn TRP methodology if I don't detect any autism in my interactions with them. The fact of the matter is you are just as full of shit as feminists and SJW's. Your particularly pathology seems to be the need to control. Its the idea of not being able to control that terrifies you and for whatever reason you shit on all the sub human males who have no control when it comes to women as a way to try and deal with your insecurities.

It terrifies you because a few tiny changes in your facial structure, a little autism and a few inches of height are the only thing that keeps you slaying.

I've been out in the world for a while. I'm not some basement dwelling obese degenerate. I play a very small amount of computer games these days, I work full time. I don't drink mountain dew or any of that fizzy cancer garbage. I've not eaten cheetos since I was 12. I admit to having a small amount of autism, I think I do a passable impression of a human. After I left university and started full time work i was pretty blue pill in denial (I was much more red pilled in highschool) and tried all sorts of PUA stuff and approaches and I did all sorts of stuff for women.

You know where it got me? Nowhere. I had a mini breakdown a few years ago (multiple reasons) and became black pilled.

As a sub human male the only women you aren't invisible too in a sexual sense are hookers.

I'm sorry i'm not as "alpha" as you are. Believe me. Keep your worthless platitudes and sanctimonious condescending attitude and shove it.

[–]Endorsed Contributorsadomasochrist[S] 2 points3 points  (3 children)

Height? Weight? Race? Status?

[–]commander_zoidberg 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Height - 6' Weight - 210lbs. Race - White - Anglo-Saxon Status - Working class sub human trash.

[–]Endorsed Contributorsadomasochrist[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Good attitude. Serious, not tongue in cheek (cocky and funny).

Need more sets. If you're gonna be dark, be dark. Play blue and feign warmth then. Why not?

[–]185poundsofhatredWIP 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You mean not everyone can slay after getting a haircut and lifting for three years? Stop looking for excuses.

[–]nko1209 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Hate to burst everyone’s bubble, but Casey is a closeted homosexual.

[–]Endorsed Contributorsadomasochrist[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

It's not an example of smv. I'm just giving a visual representation of a looksmaxed incel.

[–]WaT30 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I've looked at Casey, didn't know about him. His face looks like someone took a shovel and slammed his face with it. Didn't see many pics of him, but he looks like a loose 4.

[–]SohithKumar 1 points1 points [recovered]

Bros, Any links to sites where I can learn the sales techniques online?

[–]itsjustsimon- 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Start with Grant Cardone, Jordan Belfort, Brian Tracy.

[–]goodarmsvsbadarms 1 points1 points [recovered]

Pretty cool post. I wouldn't describe myself as an incel, since I don't wish death on women or successful dudes or anything like that, but I am the literal definition in that I haven't been able to get laid once yet. I'm 24, white, exactly 6ft, have a passable face, and I weigh about 64kgs. I dress fairly well in the sense that I wear clothes that fit, I shower and use cologne every day, and get my hair cut fairly regularly. On paper, apart from my weight, I'm not a total mess.

It's frustrating to see people throw around "you should lift, no excuses!!!!" so often, though. I've had a wrist injury for several years now. I'm not going to go into massive detail unless someone actually asks about it, but the short version is I physically cannot lift anything even remotely heavy without severe physical pain, so that's off the table. It's easy to take shots at people who don't lift. I'm fairly sure I saw a guy in here talking about how he saw a dude with prosthetic legs lifting. Strangely, it turns out that when it comes to lifting heavy objects with your arms, it's more of an issue when both your wrists are fucked as opposed to your legs. Unless there's some breakthrough in modern medicine, I'm pretty much doomed to be a skelly forever. Is being in good shape essential? If so, it seems like I'm fucked.

The other issue is that I don't really meet new women. I've worked in an office for the past 2.5 years that has exactly 3 other men in it, and nobody else. Since finishing school, I've probably met fewer than 5 women in total who were actually single and available. I go out drinking with same friends every week or two, I go to gigs, but people generally tend to stick to their own closed off groups. I honestly don't know how to meet people naturally - I'm not one of those dudes who can walk up to strangers when I don't have a good reason to do so and start talking to them. I don't live in a particularly big town where there are a load of social clubs, night classes, and meetup events to go to either. What's the solution if the main reason (I think) I'm an incel is because I'm a social leper? It seems like it doesn't matter how much time you spend leveling up and increasing your stats if you can't find the boss.

Regardless of whether or not your post was meant for me, thanks - it was a decent read.

[–]Endorsed Contributorsadomasochrist[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The post is not meant for you.

You should read the stuff at TRP, but get your feet wet by also looking at places like Hook Up Smart. That'll get you into the water and from there you can understand how women operate.

But for now, understand it is temporary and at your height and being functional, it's not if but when.

I'd recommend getting a job in sales so you learn how to talk to people.

[–]metallicdrama 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That’s nicer than my advice. All I have to tell them is there’s suicide of life sucks so bad.

[–]Profdiddy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

My,brother, I am going to have to disagree on the progression of the sex life point. From casual lay to fwb, to plate, to gf, to lover, to wife, the longer I'm in the bedroom with someone the better it gets.

[–]modex20 0 points1 point  (0 children)

when did this sub get so dark?

load more comments (31 replies)