Red Pill ExampleBe careful dating a woman on birth control (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by cypherx1

TL;DR - Birth control can affect the type of man a woman is attracted to. Be prepared if she starts/stops taking it while dating you.

I had an interesting conversation last night with a plate. She is a milf with two kids divorced a few years ago. She was telling me how her attraction to her (ex) husband faded almost immediately after she stopped taking birth control. They had a couple of kids shortly after but only remained together until the kids were just old enough that she could care for them on her own. She said at that point not only was she not sexually attracted to him but that she was a bit repulsed and had to end it. Now she goes after extremely alpha types like she used to be attracted to before getting on birth control.

We all know how women tend to prefer masculine traits during ovulation but what I didn't realize (and most probably don't either) is that an ongoing hormone treatment like birth control can essentially rewire a woman's brain to prefer provider traits (blue pill) but once she stops taking those hormones she would essentially become a different person with a completely different attraction level.

That conversation was very enlightening to hear directly from a woman's perspective. It just goes to show you how much hormones really do affect the female brain and how important it is to be aware of these factors.

[–]BertranThePharmacist 430 points431 points  (57 children)

Let me bring some light.

Many BC pills or combined oral contraceptives (COCs) contain not only artificial estrogen, but also anti-androgen chemicals to help fight acne, greasy hair, polycystic ovary etc.


Part one. Artificial estrogen is usually in form of Ethinylestradiol. Major issue with extra-added estrogen is that it forces woman's body to produce extra SHBG (sex hormone-binding globulin) which binds not only that extra estrogen, but testosterone also. Bonded hormones are obviously inactive so when on BC pills, the only number you can use is the free testosterone concentration. Women's libido is essentially equal to this number.

Aside from regulating menstrual cycle, artificial estrogene kills ovulation. A woman may feel like she has an ovulation at days 13-15, but it's really a "phantom pain".


Part two is even worse. Anti-androgen chemicals are literally anti-testosterone. There are plenty of them, but mainly you can find max power Cyproteronum (Diane-35), widely used moderate power Drospirenone (Yaz+), rarely used min power and outdated 50-years-old Chlormadinone (Belara).

What's worse? There are no COCs without anti-androgen chemicals.


So, when using COCs you have this: no real ovulation = less or no Alpha-seeking and bonded/killed testosterone = low libido and Beta-seeking. Obviously, after some time COCs are not used, free testosterone soars and woman wants to fuck Alphas vigorously, while her beta-husband is not attractive anymore.

Therefore, next time you want to mock married/committed guys about their low-sex situation, ask if their wifes/gfs are on pills. You can't outperform a bad diet so you can't out-SMV her sex-drive-killing medicine.

[–]smirk_addict 176 points177 points  (3 children)

I swear the best part of this community is the sheer knowledge of the guys that contribute.

[–]newls 38 points39 points  (1 child)

This is the way we combat the feminine imperative.

Millions of intelligent hard-working men sharing notes, helping each others' problems, anonymously away from the feminist Safe Spaces.

The internet unbalanced the sexual marketplace, but we can use it to our advantage.

[–]johnyann 39 points40 points  (4 children)

I wonder what happens when they stop taking birth control. I bet their endocrine system is a fucking war zone.

More importantly though, what happens to their future kids? I’m sure we will never find out, because I can’t think a faster way to lose your funding in academia than question the “miracle of birth control”

[–]growingstronk 10 points11 points  (3 children)

When men cycle testosterone it usually varies on what their natural testosterone levels are afterwards. It usually ends up permanently slightly lower than if they had never used steroids, but it can range from completely back to normal to absolute destruction of testosterone production, depending on their genetics and how well they did it.

Also it is important to mention that Women’s BC not only contains a wild-card amount of artificial estrogen, but progesterone. That is the hormone that, when up-regulated, actually works with estrogen to simulate pregnancy and shut down ovulation. They also do other things like helping keep women’s skin soft. So not only do COC affect estrogen-androgen ratios, but they literally change the way the female reproductive system functions.

On the bright side though, some studies showed that women with higher levels of progesterone are more open to girl on girl action :))))

[–]daringdeviljackass 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Good perspective, always say 99% of steroid users are women xD

[–]Zech4riah 1 point2 points  (1 child)

You got couple of down votes. Obviously this shows how uneducated some people are because this was actually pretty funny science based joke.

[–]daringdeviljackass 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah, it shows the lack of understanding about the term steroids, everyone thinks anabolic androgenic steroids, not realising steroids are completely natural and common (cholesterol, cortisol, estrogen etc.)

[–]cypherx1[S] 29 points30 points  (2 children)

Best repose ever! More guys need to understand this!

[–]Cum_on_doorknob 11 points12 points  (1 child)

but, for the past 8 years I've been banging girls on OCP and it's awesome...

[–]BertranThePharmacist 9 points10 points  (0 children)

They may be significantly different. It all about estrogen and anti-androgen chemicals amount.

Diane-35 is a sex kill-switch in most cases but widely used to cure polycystic ovary symptoms. This COC contains 35 mcg of ethinylestradiol and 2 mg of cyproterone, the latter has anti-androgen power of (virtually) 200 points. This and similar COCs are usually called "low dosed".

Yaz, in contrary, is used for either young girls (never gave birth) to cure minor testosterone overproduction (acne, greasy hair) or ladies after menopause when they don't need a lot of estrogen. It contains only 20 mcg of ethinylestradiol and 3 mg of drospirenone with anti-androgen power of 105 points. This and similar COCs are usually called "micro dosed".

As you can see, "anti-sex" power of two different COCs may vary significantly.

[–]MacDrezzy 1 points1 points [recovered]

I have my girl on 3mg test eod. Counteracts the bad side effects of birth control. Benefits being mood stability (not incredibly stable just more so than without), increased libido, wetness, ability to cum, and general drive. She loves it.

When she ran a little anavar on top she became a freak.

Disclaimer: Everything we’ve done has been slow and with a lot of research behind. It’s not something to jump into. If you’re not careful there are permanent side affects that can develop

[–]BertranThePharmacist 7 points8 points  (1 child)

She may perform blood tests periodically to be sure that her free testosterone level is good. For women of age 19-55 it should be less than 2.85 pg/ml (and higher than 0 obviously), however, from my personal observations girls with something in the middle like 1.5 pg/ml have quite low drive.

[–]walterco 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I am very interested in this and would love to learn more, but I cant find where to start researching. It seems that the 3mg test eod means you are giving your girl 3mg testosterone every other day. How does this counteract birth control? Does this allow the birth control to prevent pregnancy but keeps test at pre pill levels so that she would emotionally and hormonally be as if she was off the pill. Or is it a jack of all trades, master of none situation. Why not use a Non-hormonal IUD as birth control? It prevents pregnancy without affecting her hormones.

[–]Senior Endorsed Contributormax_peenor 0 points1 point  (1 child)

She found a doc willing to do that? A couple decades ago they would have shot you in the face for even thinking about it.

[–]Buddhist_Panda 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Is this the same as when a girl has an IUD?

[–]ThatOneisaThrowAway 0 points1 point  (0 children)

IUDs are available in hormonal and non-hormonal, copper form. You'd really have to look into it. At the end of the day, if it's seriously a problem, people can just use condoms.

[–]mylifestylepr 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Do you have any article or study research you could share. It's fascinating to learn the side effects these birth control pill can cause. I'm interested dive deep into the science behind this

[–]BertranThePharmacist 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well, side effects are usually written in the pills' instruction and they vary literally from nausea to death. More or less long-term studies on both primary function and side effects are easily googlable, but as I wrote in another post here, COCs are very different and even the same COC can affect two women oppositely. It's like a trial-and-error path for every woman regardless of studies' data.

In general, avoid outdated chemicals like Chlormadinone. Also multi-phase COCs like Qlaira are not suitable for women with PCOS.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (6 children)

The pill is a terrible treatment for PCOS.

I was diagnosed with PCOS and it only masks the symptoms while it makes your glucose tolerance worse (another concern for PCOS) and it increases the risk for blood clotting and drums roll, breast cancer.

A roommate ended up in the hospital after taking the pill for a while and they are over 40,000 lawsuits against only one brand of birth control pills.

Some women died, others had strokes, etc.

Yet doctors prescribe them as if they were candies.

Source: my endo wanted to prescribe me Yaz, the brand that put the lives of so many women in danger and the pill who put my ex-roommate into the emergency room.

Good stuff.

[–]BertranThePharmacist 2 points3 points  (4 children)

Some studies suggest use Metformin first, but it is essentially a sugar-killer for diabetic people and maybe not suitable for women with normal and low sugar. We still wonder about polycystic ovary cause. I would be happy to find the answer because I have vital interest in it: my wife has PCOS.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (2 children)

I am controlling my PCOS using a low carb diet to avoid Metformin.Thing is, over time she will have to increase the dose and it doesn't really go to the root of the problem which is too many carbs in her diet.

They are severe cases in which Metformin is used but they are even diabetics who use a low carb approach and they either lowered or quit meds altogether.

Unfortunately, there is no known cause to PCOS.

Some say is genetics, some say is the pollution and the hormones that are now in everything.

The good news is that PCOS can be treated (most of the time) with dietary and lifestyle changes only. But this depends on how serious your wife's condition is.

Most women gain weight like crazy on PCOS, among others.They are so many upsetting symptoms. I also take inositol which works like a weaker version of Metformin is just that inositol is just part of the B complex.

The first step your wife should take is to measure her hormone levels and find out what type of PCOS she has.

In some women the estrogen is the problem( either too low or too high), in some women, the androgens are the problem, etc.

Here's a link to an article on nutrition with clinical studies behind it.It's about nutrition, hormones, and PCOS.

I hope your wife finds it helpful!


[–]BertranThePharmacist 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Thank you for the information and the link!

Didn't know that grains contribute to PCOS, their so-called "slow carbohydrates" are usually presented as something good.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I know what you mean... I've suffered from acne for years caused by PCOS.

All doctors told me I should eat a balanced diet, only when I removed grains my acne disappeared.

No cream or pill helped me with my acne.

What I do is really simple, I avoid all grains most of the time, I eat a bunch of meat, eggs, and veggies. I also have dark chocolate sometimes.

Working out helps as well.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Don’t forget the BC makes permanent changes to the pituitary system, potentially even impacting future offspring.

[–]Zech4riah 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think you should mention the negative feedback loop in addition to SHBG.

exogenous estrogen -> hypothalamus detects it and does not pulse more GnRH to message pituary gland to produce more LH -> which would message cells in ovaries to produce more testosterone and estrogens.

In other words when the natural production of sex hormones goes down. It includes testosterone as well. So now we have two factors which reduce testosterone in womans body. Other is higher SHBG which binds (bioactive) free testosterone and other is lower natural testosterone production. -> libido goes down.

This is actually I'm dealing with right now. One of my plates started pills 1 week ago. I may have to shift a bit more to provider/beta role to give her more comfort to keep her around. Until now she has been really alpha seeking high sex drive girl. But just today she told me that she has significantly lower sex drive now and additionally so dry pussy that it even hurts to wear panties (side effect at the beginning). But let's see how it goes.

[–]Senior Endorsed Contributormax_peenor 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Shit top post rescued by excellent top comment. Please keep contributing here.

[–]EverythingIsFractal 1 point2 points  (2 children)

This is mostly right, but you made some serious leaps in the second to last paragraph. Alpha and Beta is an egregious oversimplification of what they look for before and after.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Masculine and Feminine is more accurate.

[–]UtterPWNedNoob 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well, now I know what happened to my first relationship.

[–]Ruckers_landing 1 points1 points [recovered]

How does an IUD affect hormones, vice oral BC?

[–]BertranThePharmacist 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It depends on the IUD. Typically they spread some artificial estrogen to help regulate menstrual cycle, block ovulation etc. sometimes in conjunction with anti- or pro-androgenic hormones.

[–]ThatOneisaThrowAway 0 points1 point  (2 children)

First of all, cite your sources. Secondly, women can use a non-hormonal, copper IUD. Problem solved.

[–]BertranThePharmacist 0 points1 point  (1 child)

First of all, I'm definitely not a one's nurse, just share my knowledge.

Secondly, copper IUDs are so easy and safe to use so I wonder why the overwhelming majority of women are not using them? Oh wait...

[–]ThatOneisaThrowAway 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You say "oh, wait," like this proves something about women. Since I don't have the type of inferior mind TRP has, I'm going to assume that it's something sexist that I just can't immediately see because my brain isn't hardwired for ridiculous assumptions. Instead, I think, like any sane person, that, if fewer women use copper IUDs, it probably has to do with lack of accessibility, pain of application, and higher longevity that some people can't be bothered putting up with. If you want your partner to use an IUD, just talk to them.

Anyway, I can't be bothered with children, so I already have one. If you're considering getting an IUD, have fun and do your research, since you can still have complicated pregnancies with them. Maybe, talk to your GP first and, for the sake of STD protection, wait 6 months until dropping condoms with your partner and get your STD tests as a couple because you could still contract infections, regardless of BC. Lastly, if you don't cite your sources, I'm going to disregard your "knowledge" because you're effectively using hearsay. Have you written a high school essay?

[–]PM_ME_UR_NIPS_GURL 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Dude thanks for the science. Username definitely checks out.

[–]vitamann 0 points1 point  (0 children)

THIS just all clicked in my head... it makes total sense! When the mother of my children was on the pill, she was all over me. As soon as she was off, she was a whole different person completely. During her times, my blue pill was shiny as I provided for everything and she stayed at home. Thanks for your info.

[–]AussiecuntTRP 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Male contraception can't fucking come soon enough

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Be careful what you wish for.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Jesus fucking hell yeah. Sincerest thanks to you for taking the time to type that out. I had never heard about any of this before, even within RP communities, and i’m not sure why not.

[–]yomo86 0 points1 point  (1 child)

What I really want to understand, is this alpha seeking behavior mainly focused on the external ie looks (broad shoulders, muscle, height), due to the primal nature of hormones, classic alpha (looks and behavior) or can an attractive alpha (r) adapt his behavior at will so that you can satisfy both of her shizo-imperative?

[–]roldham 1 points1 points [recovered]

I have been dating a girl for over two years who is on birth control, just the daily pill i believe. She says it helps control her periods which can be really rough for her. We haven’t had sex or anything because we’re just waiting for marriage.

I’m not sure what to do now after reading this whole thread.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

[–]owlsden 1 point2 points  (1 child)

At first I thought you were trolling, but after skimming over your post history I think you just might be serious.

Welcome to The Red Pill. My advice would be: Read the sidebar before getting married.

[–]roldham 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Not trolling. Been browsing this sub for awhile and haven’t posted before and this thread really peaked my interest. So just wanted to ask. Thanks for the reply

[–]Endorsed ContributorBluepillProfessor 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Why not just save the trouble and write her a check for 2/3 of your stuff and 1/2 your future income for the next 19 1/2 years?

[–]Endorsed ContributorBluepillProfessor 2 points3 points  (0 children)

We haven’t had sex

So she is a virgin? Let me take a wild guess. The good news is you are starting your marriage with plenty of Beta training- just like God intended!

Thou shalt worship thine wife and do nothing to sully her body with your Beta stench. Thus sayeth the Lord thy God, woman. Book of Oprah, 13:69.

[–]searcher612 -1 points0 points  (1 child)

What about etonogestrel which I believe is in some implants? Opinion on this related to the topic of this thread? Thanks in advance ...

[–]BertranThePharmacist 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There are some generics, but essentially they are copies of the "NovaRing" intravaginal ring (implant). They contain etonogestrel, which is the opposite to progestines in the COCs described above: it has minor androgenic activity (i.e. pro, not anti). So it's not suitable to cure testosterone overproduction symptoms.

[–]Taco_Truck_Aficionad 101 points102 points  (18 children)

I dated a woman for 2 years and I thought she was my dream girl. I was prepared to marry her and I was saving up to buy a ring.

She went on Depo porvera (sp?) injectable birth control and it completely changed the person she was. It changed her whole personality. Aside from changing her personality into a raging bitch 24/7, she gained a lot of weight, and it made her cunt stink like a nastiness I can't even begin to describe. Ab-so-lute-ly repulsive. She became "annoyed" by me and it got to the point we couldn't even stand to be around each other anymore. Within a few months of going on that stuff, our relationship fell apart.

I dodged a bullet though. I ran into her recently. She is 2 years younger than me, but looks 12 years older than me. She is haggard. Glad it didn't work out or I'd be stuck with her.

[–]redd_reality 27 points28 points  (10 children)

Now imagine the male equivalent when a man goes from having low T to high T with trt.

Soy boi beta to assertive, healthy man.

[–]Taco_Truck_Aficionad 41 points42 points  (4 children)

I actually have a friend who was a low-T soy boy who went on testosterone therapy. He became a Ron Paul supporter and evangelized Ron Paul to me. He went off his meds and became a hardcore Berniebot with man boobs. He got a job as government bureaucrat. SAD.

[–]Lavlamp 12 points13 points  (0 children)

On the flip side, I'm on Trt and can honestly say none of my core beleifs have changed. I simply feel like I did when I was in my early 20s energy and strength wise, and am ALOT happier.

[–]newls 7 points8 points  (2 children)

Watch Jeff Bezos' transformation after he started hitting the gym.

Now boy's jacked and a Trump supporter.

Strength, outer and inner, makes you more right wing.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children)


Soy LUL fuck that Ima have a big ass steak instead and ain't nothing these pussy ass vegans can do about it

[–]redd_reality 7 points8 points  (2 children)

Obviously if you can avoid trt through diet, exercise, sleep and other lifestyle changes, that's ideal. Some dudes can't, however. It's those extreme cases where trt makes fucking huge differences.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (1 child)

What is trt? ?? Testosterone replacement therapy?

[–]Lavlamp 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yes, testosterone replacement therapy.

[–]beerbaron105 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Very similar story except ex went on anti depressants. Still don't know truly why she went on them. Completely changed, became extremely withdrawn and cold. Lost weight (she was 5'6 and 125lbs before taking it) refused to believe that anything was wrong or that the pills were to blame. Had pupils the same size as if she was doing mdma. Things took a sharp turn down and we had a very rough and rocky 8 additional months before we mutually split up. Medication can wreck havoc on people.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (1 child)

So it was an amazingly effective method of birth control.

[–]evergonitenitenigga 3 points4 points  (0 children)

mine was the opposite. i have a plate (she's still on rotation) last year she was on depo, but she decided to be off it a few months ago and total personality change. she's become bitchy and argumentative. no change in her enthusiasm to fuck tho, but personality wise its almost a different person

[–]antariusz 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This behavior.... is the behavior of every single woman that isn’t attracted to you.

[–]TheDevilsAdvokaat 43 points44 points  (22 children)

I have seen an article about this, interesting to see an actual example.

Edit: I wonder how aware girls are of this, and if they believe it or not? Girls of TRP, have you noticed this?

[–]brinkleybuzz 33 points34 points  (4 children)

Time Magazine article on this, citing a study published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Science.

Money quote: "Women who choose a partner when they’re on hormonal contraceptives and then stop taking them will prioritize their husband's attractiveness more than they would if they were still on it," says Michelle Russell, the Florida State graduate student who is the lead author on the study.

Had the opposite happen to me a long time ago. GF started taking the pill, started feeling weird and lost attraction, stopped taking the pill without telling me resulting in a major pregnancy scare.

Women are hormonal creatures. Learn your woman's cycle and how they affect her moods and attraction.

[–]TheDevilsAdvokaat 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Good advice I think.

Thanks for the article link, I'm going to read it.

Edit: link goes to an "archive" that doesn't load...bugger...

[–]Ozito88 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Here you go brother

Your birth control pill could affect your relationship, and not just because it halts baby-making. A new study published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Science followed 118 couples who met while the woman was on hormonal birth control and found that going off the pill could impact how attracted she was to her partner.

Whether a woman's attraction to her mate shifted post-Pill seemed to be determined by how objectively good-looking he was by evolutionary standards, which means his attractiveness is an indicator of genetic fitness. Some women with partners who were not conventionally attractive reported being less attracted to him after stopping oral contraceptives, whereas a decrease was not seen in women whose partners were conventionally handsome.

"Women who choose a partner when they’re on hormonal contraceptives and then stop taking them will prioritize their husband's attractiveness more than they would if they were still on it," says Michelle Russell, the Florida State graduate student who is the lead author on the study. "The effect that it would have on her marital satisfaction would carry more weight.” That means that if your husband is not conventionally attractive and you go off the Pill, his attractiveness might bother you more than before. Conversely, if you're bored of your foxy husband, going off the Pill might make you more excited about him. Maybe.

Russell says the change may be attributed fluctuating estrogen levels, but says there could be many hormonal reasons for this effect. She also doesn't suggest that this finding should dissuade women from using oral contraceptives. "This is just one finding," she says.

Other studies have looked at how the Pill affects female attraction. A 2008 paper published in The Proceedings of the Royal Society B found that while women are usually attracted to the scent of men who are genetically different from them, women on the Pill are attracted to the scent of men who are more genetically similar. This may be because the Pill fools your body into thinking it's pregnant, and pregnancy can affect attraction. In discussing the 2008 study, Scientific American hypothesized that while non-pregnant women would be more attracted to genetically dissimilar men (to avoid the possibility of incest and maximize immunity of their offspring,) women on the Pill may be more drawn to genetically similar men because pregnant women seek out family members.

Another study of 365 couples published this year in Psychological Science found that women who went on or off the Pill during a relationship were less sexually satisfied than women who were consistently on the Pill or who had never been on it.

While the exact mechanisms for how oral contraceptives affect female attraction aren't totally clear, there is mounting evidence that hormonal birth control can affect more than just fertility. But scientists are not necessarily advocating that the risks outweigh the benefits. "Any drug that you take, people want to be informed consumers," Russell says. "This is just one factor women might want to consider when deciding whether or not to use them."

[–]TheDevilsAdvokaat 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you! Edifying and at the same time a little depressing.

I suspect a similar shift occurs in men who have already reproduced. IE away from hotness to motherly attributes...

[–]Interceox -1 points0 points  (0 children)

that was a really interesting article and explains how insane birth control can affect attraction levels

[–]Hltchens 9 points10 points  (12 children)

Yeah I second this. Start dating, she starts BC, relationship changes completely. She stops: goes back to normal.

It worries me because this has happened thrice. It worries me because most women are on birth control, which means most women are just not going to be attracted to me because of that. Every girl I’ve dated, I just went right up to and hit it off. Every single one wasn’t taking it at the beginning. Then if thy did it changed them and made them Less sexually attracted to me.

I’m 6’4” and 230lb, 12% body fat. I’m good on that range. I have an average fave which combined is good enough to bag anyone. But bIrth control is like this invisible wall I can’t get through. So fucking weird. Has to do with hormones. Women on BC don’t even look at me twice. But they’ll go for the beta “funny” guy with hipster glasses. Non hormonal BC may not have the same effect.

[–]TheDevilsAdvokaat 7 points8 points  (3 children)

I was Mr Medium. 180 cm - not tall not short. 80kg - not thin not fat. Average face.

My attraction level didn't seem to improve or degrade when girls went on birth control...

[–]Endorsed Contributorex_addict_bro 10 points11 points  (1 child)

Yea. It probably oscillated between 1/10 and 2/10 if the girl was really drunk and dick-starved.

[–]antariusz 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Lol. To a woman, a 6/10 is (functionally equivalent to) a 2/10. So you aren’t off.

[–]Endorsed Contributorex_addict_bro 2 points3 points  (0 children)

But bIrth control is like this invisible wall I can’t get through. So fucking weird. Has to do with hormones. Women on BC don’t even look at me twice. But they’ll go for the beta “funny” guy with hipster glasses. Non hormonal BC may not have the same effect.

So don't.

Read my comments in this thread. More BF than you, same experiences.

Those girls are doing this to themselves. It's poison. Especially if a girl is young and in age range, say, between 20 and 30.

[–]domable19 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Use what that other guy said to bypass that wall. Apply beta smokescreen😹

[–]beginner_ 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I’m 6’4” and 230lb, 12% body fat. I’m good on that range. I have an average fave which combined is good enough to bag anyone. But bIrth control is like this invisible wall I can’t get through. So fucking weird. Has to do with hormones. Women on BC don’t even look at me twice. But they’ll go for the beta “funny” guy with hipster glasses. Non hormonal BC may not have the same effect.

Simple. Pregnant women go for providers fro obvious reasons. It also shows that betas do get sex and affection. But also the consequences of them (having to bay for the offspring which might not be theirs). It also shows that both strategies are about equally successful at generating offspring else alphas or betas would have died out.

Studies have also shown that when pregnant, women tend to favor people that are more closely related to them in terms of immune system (the t-shirt smelling thing if you ever heard of that study) which means family. When not pregnant it's the exact opposite. The prefer men with as different as possible immune system which biologically makes a lot of sense.

So if you hook up with a girl she could be attracted to you because your immune systems are different, then she goes on BC and now suddenly she doesn't like you all that much anymore.

[–]Heinzdoofens 3 points4 points  (0 children)

It is actually because birth control is used to control birth. Remember that girls are much much attracted to alpha guys in their ovulating phase. Birth control makes it so that they are on periods all the time. I am pretty sure birth control is the sole reason for low sex marriages.

It has been proven that women are attracted to feminine men when on birth control.

If you want a healthy sex life, use condoms or make her blow you.

[–]TheBattleshipYamato 0 points1 point  (3 children)

If this is a problem you feel is recurring, there's other methods of passive female birth control that don't involve messing up her hormones, if you happen to get into a new relationship. I've heard good things about the IUD coil from women.

[–]Lavlamp 0 points1 point  (2 children)

They hurt like a bitch going in, but the pain only lasts a couple days. Then she's typically good for five years! Also side warning, I beleive some IUDs do actually have hormones in them as well- though you obviously have a large available selection to choose from.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

They have hormones that work in a different way. It's supposed to be a more local effect to the uterus.

Anecdotally, One of my last lady friends got one and couldn't leave her husband fast enough, and was falling all over my dick with some pretty basic man shit brought to the game. Her ex is a dick and a bit of a pussy, but he was like that for years before she switched.

My point there is anecdotally I have seen some of that weird "switch back to normal" behavior when they switch from oral to IUD too.

[–]Lavlamp 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thinking back, the girl I last dated changed pretty drastically within a couple months of getting one. We went from living together to her packing up and moving out without a word while I was at work one day. Dodged a bullet with that one, we were just a few months away from becoming common law so when she tried to take everything with her I got most of it back easily. Common-law status is two years where I live.

[–]arockandahardguy 1 points1 points [recovered]

Hi, hello, female here. My husband is quite the alpha, and while I can’t explicitly say that my coming off of hormonal birth control increased my attraction to his alpha traits (and thus decreased my attraction to betas), my libido did go through the roof. The woman in the original post wanted her beta man to screw her less post pill, I want my alpha to screw me more.

[–]Endorsed Contributorex_addict_bro 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Is that alpha Eric, your husband of 4 yrs, that you was ready to cheat on with an ex who treated you as a whore?

[–]tebor8 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for the feedback.

[–]TheDevilsAdvokaat 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So you really do notice it...

Thanks for the post!

[–]2mbillion 22 points23 points  (10 children)

Birth control or not, the most common time a couple with children breaks up is shortly after the kids no longer need constant attention.

I don't think this has as much to do with birth control as it does with the fact that a 8 and 9 year old is significantly less work than an infant and a 1 year old

[–]Endorsed Contributorsadomasochrist 7 points8 points  (7 children)

Things continue to decline all the way until they leave.


The idea is not supported by the studies which show that if a woman is thinking rationally, she keeps the guy around for 18 years.

It's a paradox, thanks for the inspiration.

[–]razioer 3 points4 points  (3 children)

That graph only spans 10% though, I'll agree its significant, and enough to push unstable relationships off the edge, but I doubt it makes as big a dent in divorces relative to something like the husband leaving/getting fired from a high paying job.

Anecdotally, quite a number of relationships ends after the kids leave, because a couple suddenly actually spends time together alone and realize they don't know each other anymore.

[–]Endorsed Contributorsadomasochrist 0 points1 point  (2 children)

You haven't disputed my point at all, actually reinforced it. Many women decide when a child is "less dependant" that they no longer need the man involved. When such a thing isn't actually true in terms of the grass is greener hypothesis that inspires the decision in the first place.

Which is more or less "I don't need this guy anymore." If that was true, you wouldn't see such a large dip.

Now mind you, this is significant because it's not a 10% dip in the quality of a marriage, that is a 10% dip in the number of marriages in which the people involved describe themselves as happy.

That's roughly 20% of marriages that survive which are not chronically unhappy already.

So what you're seeing is that 20% of marriages, through raising a child become a marriage in which the people involved can't describe themselves as in a happy marriage that were happy before that. Some 40+% of marriages are not happy and are not influenced by this because they're already unhappy.

It is a significant and unavoidable outcome, so what I'm saying is this. If the idea is that "I need this man around to ease the burden on me" then such a thing is true until the children leave the house. It's only true to a marginal degree in the middle, but it's temporary, it's only the eye of the storm which reaches its full fury when the kids become teenagers.

So fundamentally a woman's bet needs to be that she'll find a man that will take care of her teenagers with her.

The reflexive thought is "they mostly do what they're going to do" but the data shows otherwise. Less physically dependant, but more dependent on the time and attention.

[–]2mbillion -1 points0 points  (1 child)

No - you cannot just assert that from the data. That is not backed up with facts at all

[–]Endorsed Contributorsadomasochrist 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What "facts" are you talking about? These are 4 separate studies on the impact of children on whether or not a couple can describe themselves as "in a happy marriage."

Make your reply pointed so I can reply without clarification.

[–]2mbillion -1 points0 points  (1 child)

Well there is a couple of things completely flawed in your logic.

  1. That graph shows the % of happy marriages. But when you get a divorce you are not married anymore, thus not included in the survey.

  2. It is presented as a line graph, however should be presented as a bar graph or scatter plot. It gives the impression that the decline is linear in between each point forward with time. However, there are some points that are both age 5. Or are they 5,5-12. As somebody who works with data. I am full aware of how you can make a graph say anything you want it to so long as you stage your information correctly. However, under mathematical or scientific scrutiny it doesnt hold up.

  3. That is a non-fiction book. Its a story. Its scientific-esque. But its not a work of intellectual or academic rigor. Its one mans interpretation of what he considers facts.

  4. you reiterate my point ultimately, If things continually go south until the kids leave does it not make sense that those who have decided to leave may, logically, decide to leave when the children can afford a basis of their own care? People get divorced because things are bad. If things get worse wouldnt people get divorced.

  5. Lastly, rational or not, women don't "keep around" the guy for 18 years. And in any modern country the guy is financially "around" the whole time whether he wants a role in his child's life. Very few ways around that.

[–]Endorsed Contributorsadomasochrist 2 points3 points  (0 children)

  1. Doesn't matter because they were already out of the data set even before the divorce.
  2. It is correlated, you're the one making the claim it is "linear." All the data is saying is that the bump in the middle means its a less demanding time period but still not the end of the significant burden. Which is why I called it "the eye of the storm." Which is why I said the move makes sense if she's trying to rejockey for someone watching her teenagers, but certainly not if she thinks "the heavy lifting is over."
  3. He's pulling from 4 studies, and he's actually reposting an image from a meta study and incorrectly ascribing the drop. So it's worse than the general trend picture I posted.
  4. I'm not addressing this point. You are. I'm addressing one specific point. When a woman decides when a child at 5 has finished the period of "heavy lifting" that she's wrong. That is clear in the case of marriage happiness outcomes. It simply changes in terms of how the burden is dealt with.
  5. This has nothing to do with finances. This is about the true resource, time. You can't buy your way out of that unless you become an absent parent.

[–]cypherx1[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Not discounting this as truth in many situations but in her case she recognized the change in her libido specifically in response to the change in birth control and identified that as the cause.

[–]binarynightmare 12 points13 points  (2 children)

Not relevant, but still kind of relevant: I dated a girl with a fairly normal sex drive for about a year. After about a year, at a family member's insistence, she started taking bc. It completely erased every ounce of sexuality that was in her. I mean the woman became a nun practically.

[–]MarinTaranu 4 points5 points  (1 child)

My ex turned into a monster after our second child was born. My current one doesn't like sex, a lot of hangups about being wet and being dirty. I am so disappointed with women in general, I want to scream.

[–]cavemanben 34 points35 points  (3 children)

Is there a glossary for red pill language? It would be helpful.

Regarding your post, this is honestly shamefully ignored by basically everyone.

Hormonal birth control is not well tested. It's tested enough to what it's suppose to do with as little discomfort or side effects but psychological effects are subtle and likely unknown without serious evaluation.

I would never suggest hormonal birth control to anyone simply because of how much we don't know about what it actually does to people.

It's also possible much of what we are seeing in modern culture is due to unnatural altering the hormones of so many women. I hope some qualified people do some serious studies regarding the mental side effects to hormone alterations.

change likely to possible
I'm no scientist or psychologist so idkwtf I'm talking about however it's something I've thought about.

[–]Sonifys 1 points1 points [recovered]

The terms are in the sidebar.

[–]RedPillD 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Also Urban Dictionary has most of them.

[–]-firemelon- 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Now think about all the people on "antidepressant" drugs similar to cocaine. Or bentos with similarities with alcohol or stimulant drugs.

[–]Endorsed Contributorex_addict_bro 12 points13 points  (4 children)


Google "divorce pill".

Once I got sober, divorced, continued lifting and stuff I realised that women who aren't exactly into me are on birth control.

Most of the girls that I (carefully) selected and approached were interested.

Girls on birth control were either initially interested and then started giving me some irrational conditions (like implied exclusivity after 3-4 weeks of knowing her) or just weren't into it just like that.

This is actually a good thing for me. And, is that good for them?

I don't think so.

I think that pill fucks up their brains.

But, as long as it is not my brain, it's not my business.

Being on birth control actually puts her into a state of pregnancy. That's how the hormones work.

[–]Endorsed Contributorsadomasochrist 8 points9 points  (2 children)

You're trying to apply short term dating strategy to women looking for long term mates.

[–]Endorsed Contributorex_addict_bro 1 point2 points  (1 child)

They do look for long-term mates, but as numerous evidence shows, once they get off the birth control, the long-term mates selected under the influence of bc are no longer attractive.

So, me being me aka "the best version of myself" is unattractive to girls on bc. What can I say? I fucking love that. It couldn't been any better than this.

[–]Endorsed Contributorsadomasochrist 6 points7 points  (0 children)

They do look for long-term mates, but as numerous evidence shows, once they get off the birth control, the long-term mates selected under the influence of bc are no longer attractive.

That's not exactly my point.

So, me being me aka "the best version of myself" is unattractive to girls on bc. What can I say? I fucking love that. It couldn't been any better than this.

Here's my point. You show them a more nurturing side and these women will open up (not 1:1). Still don't have to commit, don't be so binary.

The deeper attraction mechanics regulated by BC are going to get disturbed regardless of STR vs LTR orientation. So when he's talking about women running LTR selection game on him, he's talking about women trying to slot him in as BB. That's not an issue of BC, that's female strategy being observed.

He either has to reject it, or play to that hand (dark beta game).

The idea that these women would become interested in him if they were off of BC is not correct. The converse of your observation hasn't been demonstrably true essentially.

So you're observing one thing we all know, getting off BC can blow up a relationship, while thinking the inverse proves you are a AF. Which isn't true.

[–]Viramont 12 points13 points  (0 children)

True. Me and my ex were phucking like rabbits which led to her eventually getting birth control. Nutting inside her had its downside as she eventually started talking to a literal simp behind my back. Dude was writing her love poems and shit lmaoooo. Textbook definition soyboy.

I remember reading another TRP post mentioning birth control and it couldn’t be more true. The timeline of when she started BC and when I dumped her made a ton of sense.

Birth control = Beta Preference No Birth Control = Alpha Preference

[–]RedLegendx 16 points17 points  (1 child)

I think this is true, back in my super beta blue pill days, I had a LTR that started birth control just for me and she had to stop taking them for a while and needless to say it was the downfall of our relationship, not that me begging and crying for her afterward didn’t help any either. But I wont just say that the break up to the pills, it just might have contributed to it.

[–]Endorsed Contributorex_addict_bro 2 points3 points  (0 children)

she had to stop taking them for a while and needless to say it was the downfall of our relationship

I had this exact thing happening to me like 2 times. Yup, I was nice fat beta by then. Lovely old times.

[–]RedSkeller 13 points14 points  (1 child)

I’ve noticed it but I go back and forth if I buy it or not. I would take it one step further - any sort of medication is fucking with your mind, male or female. I wouldn’t seriously date anyone on any sort of prescription or hormones. That being said your limited to the copper iud ring, condoms, anal or rolling the dice on pulling out.

[–]jagua_haku 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Obviously not for everyone but I'm surprised vasectomy hasn't been mentioned. It's basically foolproof and you're 100% in control. Eliminates the hormones issue and no chance of her lying about BC

[–]SlainFunicle 11 points12 points  (0 children)

BC or not women are crazy and unpredictable

[–]2Dmva100 15 points16 points  (9 children)

Never bust in a woman unless you've:

  1. Seen the actually prescription pills/shot taken.

  2. Gone to PP with her to get the shot

  3. Ask her where she got her shot/IUD and make her call that office on speaker to verify her last/next appointment.

If she refuses, use condom, nut in her face then hard next.

[–]Da_llluminati 46 points47 points  (1 child)

make her call that office on speaker to verify her last/next appointment

I see you are a master of setting the mood

[–]xXx420VTECxXx 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Call your doctor you dirty little slut, and let Me see that IUD scar

[–]FMIBMW 1 points1 points [recovered]

Gentleman take /u/Dmva100 fucking seriously on this one.

I played with the loaded gun and now less than 3 months from becoming a father.

Another piece of advice: GET A PATERNITY TEST! NO QUESTIONS ASKED. I don't give a fuck if your wife/gf/cousin/whatever is trustworthy. Paternity fraud is no joke nowadays.

[–]reiduh 9 points10 points  (1 child)

Get a VASECTOMY (and don't ever tell anybody)!

[–]allrandomworldnews 9 points10 points  (0 children)

No! Dont be retarded. Use a condom. That shit is your responsibility.

[–]Boozeman78 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Quite frankly I don't understand why not just use the condom. A call ain't telling you about her STD's.

[–]iguy22 3 points4 points  (1 child)

You can feel the stings of the iud if you finger her. FTW

[–]2ChainZinMedSchool 5 points6 points  (1 child)


"Overall, women experience positive effects, negative effects, as well as no effect on libido during OC use. Better-designed studies are needed to establish the independent, causal effects of OCs on libido."


"In our analysis of the subset of participants using no contraceptive method or withdrawal who completed the baseline survey, lack of interest in sex for several months or longer was a common finding (>40%). In a 1992 national probability sample, Laumann and colleagues noted sexual dysfunction in 43% of women (15). In a more recent prospective cohort, Gracia and colleagues noted that 27% of women ages 30-47 years reported decreased libido (13). It is intriguing that fewer participants reported lack of sexual desire at our six-month follow-up after beginning a new contraceptive method compared to baseline (24% versus 42%). Some reports have suggested that contraceptive use may have protective effects on libido, because it may free women from the fear of having an unwanted pregnancy (8)."

TLDR: OCP & Libido may increase, decrease or no change; hormones are complicated.

From my own anecdotal experiences : if she's on the pill, she's probably easier to lay. More likely to sloo around. Also Contraceptive use & young age <25 is directly correlated with HPV & Chlamydial infection

[–]FractalNerve -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Please explain the last sentence, that makes no sense to me. Do you mean the pill by contraceptive?

[–]prettyflyforabrowngy 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This is all very interesting and important to know, but i must add this - us men are also powerfully controlled by our hormones. they just don't change as much.

[–]Passthepogs 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Everyone was on the pill in the 90s to early mid 2000s

Look at what the type of guy was in vogue or lusted after, effeminate pretty boys. Skinny, thoughtful, deep etc

As fewer and fewer girls are choosing the pill, now look at what women want. Its back to Chads and Alphas and men who won’t stick around and who treat them like shit. They’ve reverted back to their factory settings.

Its quite interesting. How could something so tied up and controlled by their emotions and not logic deserve an ounce of time or effort or emotion from us? As most of you already know, Its a losing game.

[–]crapslock 0 points1 point  (1 child)

That is fascinating. Cool to think that the trends of what women find hot could be dicated or at least influenced by pharmaceuticals. Were there really more women using the pill then?

[–]Passthepogs -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Dunno about everywhere else but in Britain in the 90s, girls were put on the pill by their GPs as early as 14, even if they were not sexually active at the time.

I had a few friends who were on it when I was that age, it was weird to me.

[–]BlackFire68 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Could have stopped the title at "woman"

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is another reason why IUDs are the way to go if you have any pull with your lady friends. They don't work in quite the same way hormonally and much harder to fuck up.

[–]Fedor_Gavnyukov 1 point2 points  (0 children)

i mean, i wouldn't be hanging out with some hag that has 2 kids, but hey, you do you

[–]1The_BitterTruth 1 point2 points  (4 children)

This is too anecdotal to be useful for developing schemas about birth control.

[–]Endorsed Contributorex_addict_bro 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Google "divorce pill". This is not anecdotal.

[–]Cum_on_doorknob 3 points4 points  (1 child)

come on, dude. What are you going to tell us next? Broscience isn't accurate?

[–]1The_BitterTruth 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I might if I think it’ll trigger you

[–]EverythingIsFractal 1 point2 points  (5 children)

They get way wetter off BC too. I've gotten dozens of girls off BC.

90% of you have experienced how serious daily exogenous hormones can be. I have a feeling TRT is pretty popular with yall.

[–]daringdeviljackass 1 point2 points  (4 children)

Roids man Choo choo all aboard the tren train

[–]2awalt_cupcake 0 points1 point  (3 children)

My T levels are ok and Im in my 20s lifting and growing and I'm interested in taking TRT. From what I understand you can't get it unless you're older or you actually need it. What are my options?

[–]daringdeviljackass -1 points0 points  (2 children)

Multiple options: you could find a ver pro trt doc

Induce low test to get trt

Simply try to get trt

Do roids (this coupd be combined with any of the other points)

Whatever you do, dont take any herbs or herbal stuff tp try and boost t levels. Megadosing vitamin d and k with proper nutrition and creatine gives you far better results without actually destroying powerful androgens like DHT

[–]2awalt_cupcake 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I'd do roids if I knew where to get it and trust it. TRT through a doc is at least verified to be the real stuff.

[–]daringdeviljackass 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Your local gyn is a safe bet, mingle with the obvious guys and make friends and sooner or later simply ask them about their opinion and make it clear you are not anti-roids

Trt is good because of legality, but a lot of docs give out tiny amounts only, no ai and you never get hold of stuff like masteron and proviron

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

all I can say is why hasn’t anyone posted about this previously. good fucking shit to know.

[–]warwolverinewarrior 1 points1 points [recovered]

Correlation is not causation

[–]1The_BitterTruth -2 points-1 points  (9 children)

How did this get downvoted?

[–]derkoff 10 points11 points  (1 child)

It's not relevant and adds nothing to the conversation. The correlation is enough to act upon and "correlation is not causation" has become a cliche intelligence-signalling phrase.

[–]Endorsed Contributorsadomasochrist 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Because this isn't purple pill debate. TRP doesn't even care about causation. It's rational epistemology. BC changes destroying relationships is well understood phenomenon around here and supported by studies conceptually.

We don't have any idea of a "schema" like you're saying, and no one around here offers anything to that end. Only that if the woman you're with changes BC, be prepared for wild changes generally.

We will postulate and form hypotheses as to causation, but if you think we're here to pin it down, conclusively, through rigorous study and peer review you're out of your mind.

That's how you stay blue pill. Insist in the face of overwhelming anecdotal evidence that you need your new god science to offer its official blessing for you.

And even when TRP does provide substantial evidence for causation, someone would just reply with replication crisis.

If you want this kind of discussion go over to Hooking Up Smart. It's a blue pill dating site. It will feed you information exactly the way you want.

[–]1The_BitterTruth -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Ever stop to ask if it’s you and not the birth control?

What is your solution to this crazy pill

[–]cavemanben 0 points1 point  (4 children)

Possibly because it wasn't accompanied with a meaningful argument. You can dismiss any anecdote or personal observation with this statement so it hardly negates the information or renders it invalidate.

It's likely many reading have seen similar situations and this story is resonating with other personal experiences.

Certainly empirical data needs to be accumulated if it doesn't exist already.

[–]1The_BitterTruth -3 points-2 points  (3 children)

The meaningful argument is implied you just didn’t pick it up. “There are other factors that could have contributed to this conclusion and how are you certain that birth control was the leading factor?”

They also never explained how birth control could have been responsible for the change.

[–]cavemanben 0 points1 point  (2 children)

I think it's pretty rude to think I didn't pick it up just because I didn't feel it was "upvote worthy".

OP didn't write a thesis with supporting documents and empirical data so "correlation is not causation". End of argument, no need to discuss.

OP made an observation, it's interesting as it could be that this woman was the 1/100,000 that have mood or personality side effects from her hormones being manipulated. Who knows, OP doesn't know for sure, obviously but maybe you just didn't pick that up.

[–]zombi-roboto 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is a very interesting concept. I wonder if there is any research / science behind this - the /psychological/ effects of both short-term and long-term birth control. Anectdotally I completely agree - my own and the communicated experiences of several others seem to support this theory.

[–]beginner_ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Agree. I've thought about this as well an consider the increased divorced rate to at lest be partially influenced by this. Never start an LTR with girl on birth control and since you should use condoms in all cases anyway, this sin't a huge deal.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The same can happen if a women knows you've had a vasectomy or if they know that you're sterile. Their behavior is modified when the prospect of offspring is off the table. This is not even counting the hormonal change of birth control.

[–]roldham 0 points1 point  (1 child)

First time posting in this sub. This post has got me worried. What should I do if i’m dating someone that is on birth control? We have been dating for over 2 years, and plan on getting married when she’s done with grad school.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

[–]Jaanglois 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sidebar. Read it. All of it.

[–]DotishGuy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Is it because an infertile woman is basically a beta female. So a beta female would seek out beta males?

[–]oldredpillhardmode 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Been married for 32 yrs. She has been on and off BC various times during our marriage. There are definitely differences in sex drive and attraction. Throw menopause into the mix and it creates some challenges for an Alpha male. My wife would destroy a beta within a few months. Good thing is that she knows she's a handful and the average dude could never make her happy or keep her under control. The biggest difference is when off BC and she is ovulating there is a big change in sex drive.

[–]jane546 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Birth control can change the personality of some women but it works perfectly well for others. Most of the time a woman isn't "changed into a completely different person" just by adding estrogen to her system.

[–]thefisherman1961 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It’s also possible that if you start dating a girl while she’s on birth control, that she will become more attracted to you if she stops taking it. That will only happen if you’re alpha enough though

[–]zealanderx 0 points1 point  (0 children)

And also VICE VERSA-

I was dating an awesome, sex charged bombshell...

A few broken condoms later and she decides it's time for birth control. We lasted about 4 weeks. I think it was a major factor.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Anti-depressants are the same, ex was rad with me then switched meds, broke up weeks later.

Their minds are fragile.

[–]TheDarkRanger -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Anti-depressants fuck up with your mind in general, stay away from them.

[–]FitnessMang 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This i why the world is getting more beta, we are screwing up the entire filtering process of humans. The fact of the matter is that women are the gateway and filtering mechanism of quality males.

Since we bypass that, men that would otherwise never have a chance are winning.

Darwin would not be proud.

[–]1Entropy-7 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Kind of ironic that women would seek out providers when they cut off the ability to create kids to provide for.

[–]3LiveAFTSOV -4 points-3 points  (4 children)

I started fucking my plate when she wasnt on BC.

If a girls fucks me before BC and after BC, then boom it does not change attraction.

[–]forgetful_storytellr 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Great point besides your last point:

If most girls are on BC, and BC makes a girl prefer betas, then why do betas have trouble getting laid?

Girls on and off BC prefer men with alpha characteristics. I’d buy the idea that a greater value is placed on provider characteristics in alignment with predispositions to the protector as well.

Bro science ramping up full force out here.

[–]Venus-cutter 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah usually it's the casual sex people on the pill, too. They love getting gorilla fucked by a Big alpha dude usually. Eh. Might be fear mongering here.

[–]Viramont 3 points4 points  (0 children)

You sound like the most Alpha Beta on TRP

[–]listenhereboi 3 points4 points  (0 children)

If a girls fucks me before BC and after BC, then boom it does not change attraction.

Sample size of one.

You'd make a great scientist /s

[–]FuckRightOfff -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Single mothers don't seem very red-pill to me?

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