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PART I: MARK MANSON LIED TO YOU
 
1. If you’re a serious student of game, you have read Models by Mark Manson.
In my opinion, it’s the best book on success with women that’s ever been written.
Unfortunately, some of the teachings of this book have been turned into an ideology which many guys in the seduction community now cling to dogmatically.
 
2. The rejection myth
In this post I am going to annihilate one of the core teachings of Models — an idea which has been embraced as revealed truth in the seduction community for years now.
This is the idea that pursuing women who have rejected you is a “time sink”, and you should simply move on to those who are more interested.
 
3. The premise of the myth:
Here’s what Mark writes in his book:
“I’ll say this, in six years, after approaching thousands of women, and hooking up with hundreds of them, I can think of less than 10 instances where a woman was flat out unreceptive towards me and I ‘won her over’. If she shuts you down, tells you to go away, tells you she’s not interested, tells you she has a boyfriend—move on. Seriously, get over it and move on. You’re wasting your time. There are 3.1 billion women on this planet. She’s not worth it.”
While this advice is good for beginners, it promotes a DEFEATIST ATTITUDE which will prevent you from getting laid with the most attractive women in the long-run.
Specifically, it will prevent you from attracting and mating with the kind of woman I call a “Total 10”. This is because the highest quality women almost invariably give you the harshest tests, and if you’re inexperienced (or even intermediate), you will misinterpret these tests as “rejection”.
 
4. My background
I didn’t lose my virginity until I was 18. After my first girlfriend broke things off, I spent 2 years involuntarily celibate.
At 21, I discovered “red pill” ideas (back then it was just called game). I started working on my cold approach skills with a relentless, almost autistic intensity.
I approached about 30 girls a week for some 78 consecutive weeks before I got my first same night lay from cold approach.
From that point, it got easier. I knew game was real, and now it was just a matter of getting more efficient at it.
Soon I was pulling ass every two weeks, more or less, like clockwork. I banged a lot of pretty girls from my college, along with the occasional model, actress or exotic dancer.
Six years later I’m in a long-term relationship with the girl pictured here. We plan on having kids soon.
 
5. A “Total 10” defined
I’m with a woman who is a Total 10 to me. I want you to be able to do the same.
When I talk about a Total 10, I mean a girl who is (to you) a 10/10 in both looks and personality.
She’s exquisitely beautiful and highly feminine.
She’s the type of girl who’s so pretty that it physically hurts when you see her on another guy’s arm.
This is the kind of woman I want you to be with.
And this is the calibre of woman you will never get if you have internalized the idea that you should only focus on women who make themselves easy to approach.
 

 
PART II: THE PSYCHOLOGY OF A “TOTAL 10”
 
6. When you approach a 9 or 10, it almost NEVER goes easy at the start.
Commonly, she will give you the following kinds of reactions:
  • looking at you like what you’re doing is weird
  • turning away and pretending to ignore you
  • laughing at you or making a face
  • giving you just enough attention to get you hooked, then running away without explanation
  • kissing you, then disappearing to the bathroom and the next time you see her she’s flirting with some other guy
 
7. These hostile reactions are NORMAL
They don’t go away when you get better at game, or get more good looking (trust me, I’ve done both over the years)
These hostile reactions are normal, and they are necessary.
They are the girl’s (unconscious) way of testing you.
 
8. Testing you for what exactly?
Dominance? Charisma? Value? Alpha male characteristics?
No.
It is much more simple.
She already knows you’re a man of value because you approached her.
This puts you in the top 5% of all men.
So why is she testing you?
 
9. She’s testing your desire for her.
“Is this man so strongly attracted to me that he is willing to overcome any obstacle to get me?”
If she's interested in you, this is the burning question a Total 10 wants to find out with every fibre of her being.
And this is why she tests you, irritates you intentionally and places obstacles in your path…. even after you’ve displayed value by approaching her.
 
10. Being an alpha male is not enough
Women want alpha males.
However, a Total 10 has many alpha males competing for her.
You have to be alpha male — and you have to have a profound and aching desire for her.
A desire so energizing that it enables you to blast through any bullshit she throws at you with a smile, and keep pursuing her even in the face of seemingly insurmountable odds.
 
11. This is what all women crave on the deepest level.
It is the plot of every romance novel.
It’s the driving impulse of every erotic story.
It is the reason women spend hours doing their hair and makeup to lure as much male attention as possible — but then, upon arriving at the club, go to great pains to make themselves appear unattainable. Unapproachable.
Inaccessible.
Prohibited.
 
12. She wants to be chased.
Luring you close… and then making herself “inaccessible” so that you’ll chase her… is actually what turns her on.
She wants to be pursued.
She wants to be, in a sense, overpowered by your desire for her.
This is arousing to women.
 
12. “The desire of the man is for the woman. The desire of the woman is for the desire of the man.” (Madame de Stael)
A “Total 10” knows her own value (to some extent), and she wants to feel like you’re going to lengths to get HER which you’d almost never go to with any other girl.
And so she tests you. She places obstacles in your path.
And occasionally, she flat out REJECTS you — just to see if you’ll come back and try again.
When you do, she becomes aroused by your persistence and your desire.
When you don’t, she forgets about you and moves on.
Rejecting you is part of her process of becoming attracted to you.
 

 
PART III: REJECTING YOU IS PART OF A WOMAN’S PROCESS OF BECOMING ATTRACTED TO YOU
 
13. White trainers
This has all been pretty theoretical, so let me give you a concrete example of how this dynamic works.
A few years ago I was in a club on my own, and I saw a pretty girl walking through.
She was about 18. Blue eyes, dark hair, great boobs, long legs. She was wearing a mini-skirt and white trainers.
I walked up to her. The floor was empty apart from me and her. There were about a dozen people watching us, seated around us on various couches.
 
14. The ultimate humiliation
I extended my hand to the girl. “Hey I’m Mike. Who are you?”
She looked at me and made a face.
She walked past me without even breaking her stride, leaving me standing with my hand held out in mid-air like a chump.
The people on the couches laughed and hollered at this.
My cheeks burned with shame. I could actually feel my testosterone levels plummeting. I quickly fled the scene.
 
15. “How awkward can I make this”
Around twenty minutes later, I was out in the smoking area nursing my wounds.
I spotted the girl in the white trainers smoking a cigarette with her friends.
Out of some kind of perverse masochistic instinct, I said to myself, “I wonder what would happen if I approached her again?”
How awkward can I make this?
I wanted to find out.
So I approached her as if nothing had happened.
“You’re cute,” I said bluntly. “I had to meet you.” I held out my hand.
She smiled at me. I got a look at her eyes properly for the first time. She was really beautiful. “Hi!” she said. “Who are you?”
 
16. It was like I was speaking to a DIFFERENT PERSON.
We got to talking and I started teasing her a little bit and put my arm around her.
Soon we were making out.
We left together 20 minutes later.
An hour later she was naked in my bed sucking my cock.
 
17. Epiphany
As we cuddled in bed afterwards, I asked her what caused her to change her mind. I was genuinely curious about what the fuck had just happened.
“What do you mean?” she said.
“When I approached you near the bar, you totally blew me off. But when I approached you in the smoking area, you were into it. What did I do differently the second time?”
“You never approached me at the bar,” she said.
“Yes I did.”
“Hmmm. I don’t remember that.”
 
18. Cracking the code
After that experience I started doing things differently.
From then on, when a girl rejected me, I would walk away, then come back and re-engage her an hour, twenty minutes, or even just 5 minutes later.
Shockingly, almost every single one of the girls I “re-approached” after being initially rejected responded extremely positively to me on my second approach.
I ended up fucking dozen of pretty girls who had—just hours earlier—seemingly “rejected” me.
All from simply walking away and then re-initiating with them again a few minutes later.
 
19. The art of “flipping”
Pretty soon, I largely dispensed with the need to re-approach altogether.
Now when a girl “rejected” my approach, I didn’t even take it seriously any more.
I just kept talking to her, teasing her and smiling like a fuckhead anyway.
Almost every time I did this, the girl would sooner or later “flip” from being non-responsive and bitchy to being friendly and flirtatious.
Again—it was like talking to a completely different person.
 
20. Biologically programmed
This has worked so consistently for me that I’ve come to believe women are actually biologically programmed to respond to persistence in this way — much the same way that we are biologically programmed to be turned on by big boobs or a flash of bare leg.
In other words, it’s not a choice.
When you can hold frame and tease her playfully in the face of her initial resistance, she will be as attracted to you as you are by seeing a hot 21 year old in a bikini.
It’s an automatic, unconscious response which she has no control over.
She may hate you, find you irritating and consider you loathsome.
But she will be attracted to you.
 

 
THE BOTTOM LINE
 
21. The proper response to a woman “rejecting” you, telling you to go away, telling you she has a boyfriend—is to hold frame, SMILE LIKE A FUCKING SHARK and continue talking to her in a playful and challenging way.
If you can do this convincingly, she will slowly turn from unreceptive… to attracted and aroused.
Sometimes it happens immediately.
Other times it takes a few “tries” before she starts to warm up.
But it happens almost every time.
(Very often you’ll find that reason she was “cold” initially was just that she felt nervous and self-conscious around you.
In other words, you were actually too high value, and it caused her to become shy and reactive.)
Since learning this, this is where around 80% of my lays from cold approach have come from.
In one form or another, it’s how I attracted every every really hot girl I’ve ever dated, slept with or was in an LTR with — including my current LTR.
 
22. You’re not going to be able to do this well immediately.
The first few times you try it, it won’t really work.
However, once you get good at this — it is the secret which unlocks the entire game.
When you respond non-chalantly to the fact that she “rejected” you, and continue talking to her in a relaxed and playful way, this is what MAKES HER attracted to you.
 
23. Holding frame and being playful and relaxed in the face of her initial rebuff is what makes her aroused by you.
Persisting in the face of her initial cold response is not something you do in order to be able to game her.
It is the game.
 
24. The only way you can prove this to yourself is by doing it.
If you’re an online theory autist then don’t even bother thinking about any of this.
It will only work for guys who are GOING OUT and ACTUALLY APPROACHING.
I can’t prove it works to you with words.
You have to actually go out and try this for a while (and get decently good at it, because it is a skill) before you’ll see it works with your own eyes.
But it does work.
And if you don’t understand this crucial part of the game, you simply will not get the women you really want.
 

 
FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS
 
Q: OK, SO WHAT CONSTITUTES A “REAL” REJECTION? WHEN SHOULD YOU GIVE UP?
 
A: This was a question I got a lot in response to my "Get Laid Like A Warlord" post.
A better way to phrase the question is this:
How many times should you keep trying with a girl, in the face of her giving you a hostile or negative reaction?
The answer is FOUR.
You can (and must) try up to FOUR times, or else you will simply seem like too much of a push-over to be attractive.
Her first THREE rebuffs are to be regarded as TESTS.
Her FOURTH rebuff is to be regarded as a real and sincere rejection—and should be honored with a certain formal respect. That’s when you move on.
If you keep trying to get with her after four times of being rebuffed in an interaction, that’s where you start to legitimately look like a low value creep.
If you persist LESS than four times, however, you simply will not convey enough information about your status in the dominance hierarchy for her to become attracted to you.
This is called the Four Times Rule, and I did not invent it. A guy called Alexander did — and I am forever grateful to him for doing so.
(Alex used to teach for RSD. He now runs his own thing — check him out on Youtube HERE.)
 
Q: SO YOU’RE SAYING LOOKS DON’T MATTER AT ALL AND I CAN BE 200 POUNDS OVERWEIGHT AND I JUST HAVE TO KEEP PERSISTING WITH THE HOTTEST GIRL IN THE CLUB AND SHE’S GOING TO DROP HER PANTIES AND FUCK ME RIGHT THERE?
 
A: No.
This will not work for you if you’re morbidly obese.
It will not work for you if you’ve got extreme health problems, open sores all over your face, or have a cock where your nose should be and a nose where your cock should be.
This advice will work for average, typical looking guys, with good hygiene, who are in decent shape, have decent style, a nice haircut, and good clothes.
In other words, it will work for 99% of the guys here reading this.
I’m not interested in getting into autistic arguments about the relative importance of looks and game.
I’m not a particularly good looking guy but I’ve made it work. If this causes you cognitive dissonance, take it elsewhere. I’m here to help people like me—regular, boring, normal guys who want an edge.
Contrary to what the media would like you to believe, the vast majority of men who study game online are not obese, basement dwelling neckbeards.
Getting into arguments about “b-b-but it won’t work for the fedora neckbeard morbidly obese virgin D&D players!” is a complete and utter waste of time, because such hard-cases actually constitute a fractional minority of the people reading this.
(If you don’t believe me, just look at the crowd in videos of an RSD seminar, or the 21 Convention.)
 
Q: THIS IS TOO MUCH WORK. I’LL JUST STICK TO TINDER / PORN / ANIME / MY FLESHLIGHT / WAIFU PILLOWS / ETC
 
A: You’re right that this is too much work to do with every girl. That’s not what I’m recommending.
This is appropriate only to do with women you’re really sexually attracted to.
In other words, this will only work on girls who have a femininity about them that deeply energizes you.
Another way of putting it is…
You know when you see a girl who’s so pretty you immediately get nervous and get butterflies in your stomach?
This is to be used on THOSE kinds of women. The ones whose beauty and feminine energy truly inspires you.
A lot of girls you approach will just be “practice approaches”, or approaches to warm up when you get in the venue, or approaches simply to be social and express yourself.
You’re not especially attracted to the girl, and although you might fuck her once, you wouldn’t keep her around.
What I’m advocating here is NOT APPROPRIATE in those situations, because it’s inauthentic.
Pursuing a woman in the face of tests and resistance only works when it’s pure. And it’s only pure when you’re doing it out of a genuine and sincere desire for her.
If you don’t feel this desire for women — if you don’t feel butterflies in your stomach when you see a beautiful girl — then you need to cultivate this, because it’s what makes everything else in game work.
Do nofap (hardmode—no “edging”). Lift heavy weights for testosterone.
Drink protein shakes, and make sure you’re maxing out or exceeding your protein macros every day.
(This last one seems trivial, but I only started doing it properly a year ago and fucking hell has it ever made me hornier.)
 
Q: STOP ATTACKING MARK MANSON. HE’S CONTRIBUTED MORE TO THE PICKUP COMMUNITY THAN YOU HAVE
 
A: This shouldn’t be construed as an attack on him personally.
I am instead attacking a particular ideology which has taken hold in the manosphere/PUA community — partially as a result of the popularity of his book — and which says that pursuing a woman who has “rejected” you is a “time-sink”.
This advice is a “white lie” which is actually very good for beginners.
He’s telling his audience (who are mainly complete newbies to game) what they need to hear to start approaching, and not take negative reactions too seriously.
However, when this “time sink” idea is taken dogmatically, it hinders your ability to attract the women you want by promoting a defeatist mentality and and making you easily demoralized.
I neg Mark Manson a bit in this post, but it’s in good humor (like all my negs). I respect him as a writer and love the core message of Models.
 
Q: WHAT IF THE GIRL SCREAMS AT YOU OR HITS YOU OR GIVES YOU AN EXTREME RESPONSE? SHOULD YOU STILL KEEP TRYING UP TO FOUR TIMES?
 

[–]Do not send modmail to my personal inboxCrazyHorseInvincible[M] [score hidden] stickied comment (7 children)

This is good, but we don't allow non-endorsed posters to promote stuff. Remove that and I'll reapprove.

[–]wittymore 160 points161 points  (27 children)

This post will probably get downvoted but I've appreciated it.

I think where a lot of guys go wrong is in striking the balance. They either try to get a girl comfortable and friendzone themselves because they don't focus on the sexual. Or they come on as overly sexual and end up alienating the girls they're interested in.

Your post addresses this perfectly. Sexual comfort. Establish yourself both as a man(with all the sexual desires that entails) AND invest in the girls you're interested in.

Strong post OP. Thank you.

[–]2MikeHaines 28 points29 points  (25 children)

Thanks man!

Yeah, imo a big part of mastering game definitely comes down to attaining balance between two seemingly contradictory paradigms -- being able to "hold two conflicting thoughts in your head at the same time", so to speak.

[–]TRPalexmehr 2 points3 points  (11 children)

Going off of this. Lets say a girl says she has a boyfriend and I respond "Oh yeah what's his name" or "But does he make you happy". Would this be coming on too strong or is it good?

For example instead of acknowledging the rejection should I just ignore her and talk about something completely different?

[–]extrasauceplz 20 points21 points  (1 child)

I'm going to let you in on the big secret. Whenever you don't know how to respond to a shit test or even some bullshit the girl is saying you don't agree with. All you say is 'cool' and then talk about whatever the fuck you want to talk about after that. That's it, say cool and then ignore whatever the fuck she just said. How does her having a boyfriend effect your ability to fuck her? It doesn't. How do you respond to irrelevant information? Cool.

[–]AGameofTrolls 1 point2 points  (4 children)

I'm hanging with this girl now and she has a boyfriend, but the funny thing is they don't see each other that often. She invites me to stay over to watch a movie and she will chill on one couch and me on the other. She likes my company but can't tell if she would go for me.... I'm thinking that next time she asks me to stay over I'll hit on her. It's going to be a good trial and error situation. Any advice guys?

[–]tall_bacon 3 points4 points  (2 children)

Be confident, respectful, and maintain frame if you get rejected when you make a move on her (start by sitting on the same couch with her, easy 1st step), and if she hard rejects you after a few attempts (sit close, create “accidental” physical contact, let hands linger, etc), you know she is using you for emotional companionship that she isn’t getting from her boyfriend and you should move the hell on and no longer give her any of that time alone.

[–]AGameofTrolls -2 points-1 points  (1 child)

I am planning to be a little direct and say: You know I have feelings for you right? And I'm sure she's going to reply: But, I have a boyfriend..... Me: Well, he isn't here and I'm here now.

[–]AnjaJutta 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Do what tall_bacon said. Attraction is not negotiated with words. You can sit down with her and have extensive discussions on how you are "the penis" nearest to her and it will lead nowhere. Instead, you have to lead the whole interaction into a story where things just happen to lead to sex. In order to play out this story you have to assume a role. So picture the archetype of man who would have her and embody him in your next interaction. Play out the role, and if it doesn't work out move on.

[–]CHAD_J_THUNDERCOCK 1 point2 points  (2 children)

These days when a girl says she has a boyfriend I always say "Oh ok no problem", change the subject and continue, but making it clear I am now not pursuing her. All girls appreciate this - they are used to men just turning away and ignoring them or trying to continue pursuing them. Just by doing this you provide value and showing high status. Its low effort high reward and few people are doing it.

So you now have a girl thats your friend in the venue. And she will probably introduce you to her friends, or you can just be seen dancing with her and chatting with her. Her friends - and surprisingly even strangers - will actually ask her about you, and she will say positive things. You now have social proof. This alone is enough to have 3 single women noticing you and ready to pull the trigger usually.

[–]TRPalexmehr 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Thanks. I've actually done this in the past but for some reason lately I've been trying to get even with girls who have BFs. Its a good reminder to chill out sometimes.

[–]CHAD_J_THUNDERCOCK 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Its a bit like sales. Some coaches and salespeople will tell you to close every single customer that walks through the door. Others will tell you to follow the Dale Carnegie approach and just focus on providing value. If you keep giving value (and are not being a pushover or low status) then people reciprocate. If you provide value to a girl in a club effortlessly and she is not single, then she will introduce you to her single friends, and with an introduction and social proof... its like shooting candy at a baby in a barrel.

[–]Rian_Stone 2 points3 points  (8 children)

I imagine any narcissism would probably fuck that up.

Narcissists don't mind being shit on, but not being the topic of conversation? Thats an injury that makes them mad. Impressed that you weren't phased by the ignorance that you even existed that first time.

Take note, this is why narcissism as a dark triad attribute needs to be a tool, not a constant state.

[–]2MikeHaines 7 points8 points  (7 children)

Yeah I mean narcissism is like anything else, it wouldn't exist if it didn't provide some evolutionary advantage, but if it's unconscious then it becomes a blind spot which can fuck you up in other ways.

A perfect example of this is a natural friend of mine, highly narcissistic. Does GREAT with women in some conditions (like, pulling 9s and 10s effortlessly if he's on a roll), but if he gets rejected once it completely destroys him for the whole rest of the night and he can't recover.

[–]Rian_Stone 11 points12 points  (2 children)

When I was big on mystery method in the early 2000s, I had the same experience. My wingman was a capital N narcissist. Always pulled, and I wasn't nearly as consistent.

However, he was also just as likely to cry like a bitch, or freak out on a girl too for throwing him shade, where I was more likely to have sex with a chicks friend (just to see if the rumour was true).

I used to think it was one or the other. Bigger highs, lower lows, or a more stable, but muted success rate. Come the end of my PUA run, I found it way more useful to just make it a character, that you can add or take away as needed.

Most guys talk about it like it's not being authentic. Like fuck, you're an actor, she's an actress, and you're doing Fucking:the musical. Authenticity is just a way to pretend your failures are not your own fault.

Love the post

[–]2MikeHaines 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Cheers bud.

Yeah agree re: the authenticity thing. Something I've actually started experimenting with more often these days (purely for fun) is to go straight up "method actor" on a girl and literally just play a certain role to see how she'll respond. For example, sometimes I'll act extremely gruff and hostile to a girl for no reason, acting like I'm actually ANGRY at her -- and she'll get super turned on by it. It's very interesting to watch.

Then, as you said, once you've mastered it you can just amp up that vibe or tone it down as necessary so it's like a tool in your toolbox.

[–]Rian_Stone 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I would have probably been a MGTOW workaholic in 03-08 if I didn't gamify dating. After all, women don't care about you anyways, they just want emotions, fun, tingles, and you want to get your dick wet.

I mean, if you're at work, when you have a contract meeting with vendors, are you being authentic? Or are you doing what you have to do to get a signature?

Ever have that time yet where you break character because you feel bad? My favourite plate (I called her the dog walker, never actually used her name) I treated like shit so often, and she kept coming back. Finally once, I asked her why she put up with my shit so much. She didn't know.

That night I came in her mouth because she hit me with a riding crop.

Rumour is she LTR's up with my narcissist wing man. He refused to talk to me, after a friend of mine made him cry when she refused to upgrade from plate status. For some reason, that bothered him more than being eskimo brothers, and the dog walker thinking I was more fun in the sack.

You'll do just fine, guaranteed

[–]kergeshken -1 points0 points  (3 children)

Good post.

like anything else, it wouldn't exist if it didn't provide some evolutionary advantage

This isn't how evolution works.

[–]2MikeHaines 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Thanks.

This isn't how evolution works.

In most cases it is, with the exception of "spandrels". Not an expert on this, but I'm pretty sure narcissism is not a spandrel.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spandrel_(biology)

[–]kergeshken 0 points1 point  (1 child)

https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn13615-evolution-myths-everything-is-an-adaptation/

Male nipples. The appendix. Fucking hang-nails. Natural selection doesn't control everything, and doesn't work with intent.

[–]2MikeHaines 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah as I said, these things are spandrels, I agree with you. I was being conversational when I said it's "like anything else", not making a formal biological claim.

[–]minicheff 0 points1 point  (3 children)

I absolutely love reading these. Thanks for the great post. Going to try it next week.

[–]2MikeHaines 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Cheers man, let me know how it goes

[–]daremeboy 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Applied this to my wife in the last 24 hours.

Went 7 years without anal and 1 year without a blowjob. Got both. It works on your wife folks. Fuck yes, she is also a 9/10 to me so the desire was real, I just wasn't showing it before.

Disclaimer: have always been steady with sex (multiple times a week sometimes multiple times a day with the good ole vag).

[–]2MikeHaines 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hahah nice, I really had no intention of people using the post in that context but sounds like it worked out nicely!

[–]rp_newdawn 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Fuck dude you nailed that on the head. I love distilling knowledge down to bit-size chunks to keep my frame and mentality where I want it. Sexual comfort. Fuck that’s perfect.

[–]Endorsed ContributorMetalgear222 12 points13 points  (9 children)

So many people downvoting. How sad. Great post Mike. I have so many recent anecdotal experiences that line up exactly with this post. Spot. Fucking. On. Hope to see you writing more.

[–]2MikeHaines 5 points6 points  (8 children)

They are entitled to their opinion, I welcome all discussion and debate!

Cheers for the feedback, and yeah I plan to start writing here more often this year

[–]CHAD_J_THUNDERCOCK 2 points3 points  (7 children)

I remember where I was when I read your 37 tips to being a warlord post. It really hit me as a core truth. I used to post a lot here but I have only posted a couple times since that day and each time I post its something related to that post. It really was a simple model which explained things nobody else was explaining - and it did it accurately. I have even told people IRL to read it.

This post was a great reinforcement of the same principles. You have great talent at finding truth and presenting it persuasively.

[–]2MikeHaines 0 points1 point  (6 children)

Thanks dude, glad it could be of use to you!

[–]CHAD_J_THUNDERCOCK 0 points1 point  (5 children)

I want to offer you unsolicited advice based on what I've seen people do that can make them rich.

Keep posting here but make a youtube channel too.

Use your copywriting skills / pacing / storytelling in video form like the guy in this case study: https://archive.fo/pXG1l

Few people have copywriting skills AND video production skills AND your insight. Some people make videos and post them on TRP but they don't have any real red pill insight and its low information stuff. None of them reached traction. Maybe use this guys format and use scenes like this as background video in between your pitch about how the world works: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJS7Igvk6ZM

It may be easier to share your insight and build an audience.

The real risk: I just don't know if youtube will shut you down the moment feminazis find you and mass report you.

But keep building content, an audience and then leverage that to sell products (either info products like books, or even move into high margin physical products that are a value-add to your audience).

You have the product, the product-market fit and the sales skills. And it solves a real pain for 50% of the population. The sky is truly the limit.

[–]MikeHaines 1 points1 points [recovered]

Thanks man, yeah I've considered doing the youtube thing but I don't like the idea of becoming dependent on a platform that's run by SJWs. Maybe at some point though...

I'm also not really sure about the whole copyright situation of using background video taken from other people's stuff. I believe you're allowed to do it if your video is purely educational, but I'd be doing this to promote my blog, products etc so seems like I could be liable to a lawsuit.

It is a good idea though and one I've toyed with a lot. Thanks for the advice

[–]eroticamaster 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Mike I bought your product! Now what do you think about people like Connor Murphy from youtube using extremely attractive body to get women's numbers? His aesthetic body helps him skip all the bitch tests we usually encounter. The reactions by women shown on YouTube are real. I can tell.

So if all the theories we believed so far were true, then how come when this alpha male go out and show muscles, women don't say no dont bitch test? I see on their face the kinda look I never saw in most pick up situations before. They get turned on instantly. I was a pick up coach too I had seen all looks on girls, this guy seems to defy my previous experience. I know he didnt just get the numbers. He had them in the bags if he wanted to.

You said women gave us test when we approach because we were too high values. Then how come this guy gets all the number and all the yes so fast? (You have to watch his videos and raw footage to believe what I said)

Like before he took off Tshirt girl is like "I have a boyfriend" then after he took off shirt "he is just my roommate"

Also when I have a hot wing girl, there were also lesser tests too. So is it possible that when girls are bitchy they are just less attracted?

Now I truly believe your material is revolutionary, but I can't resolve this on my own.

Could you enlighten me on this? thanks

[–]3LiveAFTSOV 0 points1 point  (2 children)

I believe that my red pill videos on youtube have gained small traction and are all 200% insightful considering i animate red pill topics

[–]CHAD_J_THUNDERCOCK 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I just checked out your videos and they are cool. Visually they are nice. I don't want to be too critical of you as its good content people should watch. But I want you to know how to improve incase you listen and do it. A lot of people on this sub are in business and hopefully can vouch for what I say.

It lacks sales/copywriting/persuasion/qualifying. Its a huge amount of information you are giving, and I cant make myself watch it as my motivation is just not there - you haven't dangled an object in front of my reptilian brain and got it hungry. Its a huge list of stuff. My brain cant process it. Brains accept stories as input and for memory storage.

Theres also just too much going on: https://youtu.be/_zDtan1glN0?t=403 . So much text and writing. They don't teach you this in school or college but the best powerpoint presentations are as as few slides and possible and each has the minimum amount of information to convey a concept. All that matters on the screen is "Looks get attention, Confidence seals the deal". But I wouldn't even put that down in writing, I would have a video of some guy charming a lady like Leo DiCaprio in Catch Me If You Can.

Before MikeHaines even was telling us the rules he was qualifying why his advice was worthwhile. Why he was worth listening to. What you can get/be if you follow his one simple rule. And when he talked about his discovery and why it worked it was all part of a story (its a Hero's tale (the treasure is the 10/10 girl)). He explained how he was just a normal guy, who left his comfort zone, fought batles, discovered a magic power and returned home with riches. Its even better if you talk about the pain of failure that lead to the epiphany. Your video is just a list of tools / riches that some guy bagged. I was more motivated to read Mikes post after his introduction than 95% of posts - even if he didn't have any profound point it would have got 400 upvotes.

If I am to be more frank: your voice doesn't sound authoritative enough to me. You sound quite young. You don't sound emotionally engaged enough. You are just explaining stuff and occasionally cracking jokes. Listen to Jocko Podcast for a great voice - I believe what that guy says when he says it. Its not just the gravel-liness either - focus on the spacing and the emotion. But you remind me of myself when I was 21 and I used to write on PUA forums authorititavely even though I had been with only 10 women or so and was not really an expert, just formulating theories.

At the moment I still will link people directly to 37 warlord tips on this sub. But I don't really want to, I'd rather a safer thing like a youtube video that is just like his post. But it needs to be qualified and persuasive.

I hope you don't feel too dejected by this harsh criticism, you do clearly have some talent in video production; I am just trying to give you some "unknown-unknowns" and pathways for future growth.

[–]3LiveAFTSOV 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Why the hell would i be dejected? You just gave me a boatload of valuable information.

How is it possible illacertus and fightmediocrity were able to blow up without use of persuasive language? Shorter video lengths?

[–]Coroshi 53 points54 points  (10 children)

“Is this man so strongly attracted to me that he is willing to overcome any obstacle to get me?”

Is this not a common test for provider traits?

However, a Total 10 has many alpha males competing for her.

Aren't those "alphas competing for her" what we here call "beta orbiters"?

I want you to get HARD when you heard the word “no”.

Yeah, many rapists actually do.

I'm sorry if my tone is hostile, I have unplugged only recently, but what you're presenting here goes against everything Rollo says in "The Rational Male". I got no problem conversing with girls that reciprocate even just a bit, but the idea of persisting after a straightforward rejection feels, sounds and smells wrong to me. The sheer thought of it triggers a voice inside of me that screams neediness and scarcity.

I see the red pill in you, which is why I'll downvote you with a heavy heart.

[–]GLADmyNAMEaintDICK 1 points1 points [recovered]

Hey dude, this sub is not about dogma and taking the word for it. Many dudes come here to run to safety looking for a formula that guarantees pussy, hoping for no risk and all reward. This is THEORY. It's meant to be tested. If you don't have the balls to test it, then you probably lack the frame required to pull off the technique.

Like you said, you're new, so I think it's safe to say that you still have a feminine social consciousness reflex . If you got rejected, you'd probably feel like shit because you inherently hold her opinion as a somehow accurate reflection of your character and worth, when you literally don't know each other. Depending on acceptance is out of frame. Showing that her opinion affects you is out of frame. If she is hot, she will get lots of attention. There is nuance between neediness and playfulness. This is learned through experience.

I'm not saying this guy is right, i'm saying everything you "learn" should be TESTED. The earth being the center of the universe was an easy model to believe due to bias, and so is much of RP theory. Models are constantly updated with new nuances and complexity. Don't be so quick to brush them off unless you have hard data.

[–]Coroshi 7 points8 points  (1 child)

Don't get me wrong. I'll be the first one to oppose dogmas, I'm all about testing shit, but this idea just feels wrong from the start AND it conflicts with pretty much every piece of information I tried to reprogram myself with.

I don't value a woman's opinion that much, my boys and I make fools of ourselves on a regular basis, sometimes we even do approaches that are plain stupid and sure to get us rejected just for the fun of it. But this just sounds like pestering, and if there's anything in the world I hate it's someone being persistently annoying. I don't know, maybe I'm wrong.

[–]1sezamus 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Rollo kinda suggests to play the safer way by showing mostly alpha traits and to avoid marriage before you discover your full potential (~35 y.o.). This is the long-term strategy Rollo is talking about where acting Alpha is the tactic to acomplish that.

What is given in this post, is a different tactic to get a girl you could be ready to settle down with.

u/MikeHaines is very accurate, because I remember it happened to me while I was LTRing my ex-gf. She threw things like "I don't know we should be together; there is so many differences between us; I am not sure about all this; Maybe I should be with someone else;" etc. We were together for 4 years until Briffault's Law kicked in.

[–]2MikeHaines 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Can't agree with this enough. I'm a big fan of TRP but if there's one thing which I think this community lacks, and which (for all its faults) the old PUA community did have in spades, it's the idea that "you must test and prove everything for yourself".

To be honest, criticisms on this post like "this isn't red pill" are a joke to me (though I respond politely). The question is not "Does this confirm my ideology" it's "DOES THIS WORK?"

You can only find out by TESTING. If guys TEST this, they'll find it works. If they don't, I got no sympathy for em!

[–]2MikeHaines 10 points11 points  (0 children)

I appreciate your honest feedback.

Is this not a common test for provider traits?

First of all, it IS a test for provider traits. But that's not necessarily a bad thing. If you are all lover and no provider, the girl may feel that fucking you isn't worth the emotional turmoil of being pumped and dumped. You have to provide a balance. It's the old game idea of "Comfort vs value". You need both. Some girls need more comfort, others need more value. The advice at the TRP is strongly balanced towards developing value, which is right if a guy's coming from a purely provider frame. However, if you do nothing but be high value and give the girl no comfort, you'll find that you get no results.

Aren't those "alphas competing for her" what we here call "beta orbiters"?

No man. You're confusing the idea of being "alpha" with "not competing". We're ALL competing one way or the other. Alpha males are just doing it better -- but it doesn't mean that an alpha gets to fuck every girl he wants. Far from it.

'I want you to get HARD when you heard the word “no”.' Yeah, many rapists actually do.

I'm being deliberately provocative to grab attention, it's clearly not meant to be taken literally. (I think I actually stole this line from Mad Men if I remember correctly)

what you're presenting here goes against everything Rollo says in "The Rational Male".

Never read it. I'm telling you what's worked for me. It's very naive to think that everyone who has game thinks about women the same way, or uses the same strategy. There's not ONE way to attract women any more than there's ONE genre of music.

but the idea of persisting after a straightforward rejection feels, sounds and smells wrong to me. The sheer thought of it triggers a voice inside of me that screams neediness and scarcity.

What you're saying is true at a certain level of game, but as you go out more and progress you'll begin to see nuances and distinctions where before it was all black and white.

[–]awokepsl 1 points1 points [recovered]

This guy is obviously a salesman, just look at the website linked. Don't waste your time. Many PUAs have flat out said that they lie to sell products, and that just approaching, talking about anything, and getting a date is all that matters, because she knows whether or not she'll want to sleep with you withing the first 1-2 minutes.

[–]2MikeHaines 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Interesting, why is being a salesman a bad thing? You're not a communist are you?

[–]ImHerWonderland 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sometimes I get rejected off the bat because the girl is freaking out and very nervous. I think lots of girls get approached by Billy betas all day, but girls can act like betas too for the right guy. That's where disengaging and coming back after she calms herself down, checks herself in the mirror, etc, comes through. I think you need to just feel your gut and social cues.

[–]88Will88 1 points1 points [recovered]

No question this is a great post and it is an extension on some of the stuff covered in the how to get laid like a warlord post. It clearly has it’s roots in the PUA movement. However as a jaded and hard core red man I need to take exception to some points:

  • “You have to be alpha male — and you have to have a profound and aching desire for her.

Hmm, sounds a bit like putting the pussy on the pedestal to me. I have had LTRs and STRs with top shelf women and I still told them they were lucky to have me, not the other way around.

  • “When I talk about a Total 10, I mean a girl who is (to you) a 10/10 in both looks and personality.”

Sounds an awful lot like a unicorn to me and we do not believe in those here. Combine the idea of aching desire (I threw up a bit in my mouth when I read that), and Total 10 and we have an almost complete breakdown of two red pill core truths.

Don’t get me wrong, it is a good post and worthy of the upvotes but we must look at these things with a red pill lens.

[–]2MikeHaines 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Hmm, sounds a bit like putting the pussy on the pedestal to me. I have had LTRs and STRs with top shelf women and I still told them they were lucky to have me, not the other way around.

I agree that you need to have a mindset of being the prize. I have a HARDCORE prize frame, believe me. What I mean when I say you must have an aching desire for her is (to put it in the simplest possible terms), you must be REALLY FUCKING AROUSED by her.

This is not putting the pussy on a pedestal. It's called having HIGH T, HIGH SEX DRIVE and a DESIRE TO WIN (FUCK)

Sounds an awful lot like a unicorn to me and we do not believe in those here. Combine the idea of aching desire (I threw up a bit in my mouth when I read that), and Total 10 and we have an almost complete breakdown of two red pill core truths.

I agree it could be misinterpreted in this way. What I was really getting at with the "Total 10" idea was just to give the ideas in the post a clear THEME and a BENEFIT that can be visualized. Every guy has an idea what a "total 10" is to him. So by saying, "here's how you get that total 10", suddenly what you're saying becomes engaging and interesting.

To be honest with you, everything in the post applies just as much to fucking an endless number of 8s. The reason I focused it on the "10" thing is just because I continually get questions about "how to get a 10", and I get a surprisingly low number of questions about "how do I fuck 100 girls in a year".

Hope that clears it up a bit. And thanks for your feedback man, means a lot. I've been lurking here for a few years and always enjoy your posts.

[–]Endorsed ContributorJamesSkepp 39 points40 points  (1 child)

“You never approached me at the bar,” she said.

“Yes I did.”

“Hmmm. I don’t remember that.”

I get that a lot in nightclubs. The problem is not approach, you or your state or your game. The problem is the nightclub itself and extremely stimulating environment, which is full of things that make you invisible or very hard to distinguish from the surrounding people. Cue peacocking, social proof and working the club to get on her radar.

In other words, you were actually too high value, and it caused her to become shy and reactive.

That's an old PUA misconception. It's not about you being too high value, it's about going too hard to early - in the context of the night. She's used to a certain rhythm of the night, so to speak. It's not a question of value, it's a question of timing and making it "naturally" from her point of view.

This misconception came to be, most likely, b/c the people who came up with this were PUAs - the guys who's goal in the night was to get laid fast. Thus, they didn't take into account that she wants to get laid too, but needs her own "model" to be followed too, otherwise it feels unnatural.

This can be tested (I did) very easily: go to a nightclub a bit early and observe which girl is horny immediately (alone, nervous behaviour, looking around like she's scanning for something, being open to any approach) - if you have game you can pull that girl in minutes (regardless of your status), that's b/s she super horny and will break her own "model" simply b/c the "horniness" is stronger. On the other hand try this "early club test" with girls who came to get looked on and validated. You get shit tests and rejections, even tho later on you might fuck her anyway. They stick to the "model" they are used to.

When you respond non-chalantly to the fact that she “rejected” you, and continue talking to her in a relaxed and playful way, this is what MAKES HER attracted to you.

The easiest way to do this is to get rejected a lot and hard, preferably while having as much people being witnesses to this as possible. The point is to get accustomed to being on the spot and failing so it doesn't affect you. This is how you practice frame, at least in the beginning. I still use this from time to time as warmups, fuckup the approach on purpose and revel in the pressure.

STOP ATTACKING MARK MANSON. HE’S CONTRIBUTED MORE TO THE PICKUP COMMUNITY THAN YOU HAVE

The number of his contributions is irrelevant, what matters is if he was right. He offers a pure number's game approach - if she's not enthusiastic from the beginning it's a waste of time. Go to a hi-end nightclub, the hottest girls are never enthusiastic about approaches, not unless you're a celebrity.

I still have a grudge for him b/c I expected Models to be about pulling statuesque fashion models. Not only his book is titled badly, but he also offers the worst possible strategy for pulling models. Total disappointment Mark 0/5. Jokenojoke.

[–]2MikeHaines 8 points9 points  (0 children)

The problem is not approach, you or your state or your game. The problem is the nightclub itself and extremely stimulating environment, which is full of things that make you invisible or very hard to distinguish from the surrounding people. Cue peacocking, social proof and working the club to get on her radar.

Agreed. Until you spend a certain amount of time talking to the girl, you are pretty much just a VAGUE BLUR to her. I had a whole section about this in the original post but it was too long so had to cut it out.

The easiest way to do this is to get rejected a lot and hard, preferably while having as much people being witnesses to this as possible.

Yeah I'm a BIG fan of this. I don't always have the balls to crash sets intentionally, tbh, but whenever I have done it it's always put me into a killer state.

[–]TheDarkRanger 1 points1 points [recovered]

Interesting read, but I have a question about the "ask her out four times"... If you ask a girl out, and she rejects you and doesn't reschedule, then isn't it clear that she's not interested? By persisting, aren't you giving off a needy, low-abundance vibe and freely giving her orbiter attention / validation?

[–]3LiveAFTSOV 56 points57 points  (11 children)

This is talking to a girl in person not text

[–]2MikeHaines 42 points43 points  (10 children)

Correct. Text game is a very different beast.

[–]letmewalkaway 6 points7 points  (5 children)

I would like to know more about this situation.

[–]Celicni 20 points21 points  (4 children)

If she wants you, she'll reschedule. If she says "maybe other time", you can hit her up once more if you're cool with that. If she fucks you off again, next.

[–]RPStone 1 points1 points [recovered]

Can confirm. Did this over a year ago, 2 weeks after nexting her she texted me to hang out. Long story short, she's cooking in my kitchen rn.

[–]SKRedPill 2 points3 points  (1 child)

AFAIK, women who have a perceived high worth (need not necessarily be a 10/10) of themselves, are some really proud cases. One must be very strong not to get betatized by them and hold frame. What's it like being in an LTR with one of them?

[–]Tosbor20 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Any opinion on the texting aspect regarding this example?

[–]Eclectiqque 0 points1 point  (2 children)

i'm directly requesting a post on that. i think we'd enjoy it

[–]2MikeHaines 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I did a pretty long post on this elsewhere in the comments here. Can't link to it as TRP will automatically delete any post that links within reddit but you'll find it if you look

[–]2MikeHaines 13 points14 points  (11 children)

This is a good question. I'm not really referring to "requests" like asking a girl out -- I'm more referring to "attempts to get her to engage you" in an approach.

However, I have definitely found that asking a girl to go out multiple times after she says no the first time DOES make her more responsive. The trick to it is to ask in different ways -- not just repeating the same request again and again. Also, leaving some space in between each ask, like several days, plus texting back and forth.

[–]CaesarsInferno 1 point2 points  (10 children)

Can you give examples of the “different ways”. I’ve asked out a girl around my school, we exchanged numbers but when I tried to arrange something via text she didn’t seem interested and didn’t suggest an alternate. So I never texted her again. That was a couple months so. If I see her in person around school - how would you handle it?

[–]2MikeHaines 29 points30 points  (9 children)

The simple answer is that texting girls is not good. It immediately puts you in a weak position.

If you absolutely have to do it, however, then the way I'd approach it is this:

  • set up the date in person WHILE you're taking her number.
  • Example, you meet a girl in school, you hit it off, you're talking. You say, "let's do XYZ" [something specific that paints a picture in her mind, e.g. "let's get coffee together on Friday"]
  • if she says no or is resistant, don't ask for her number. Let it slide. You may get a shot at her again another time, but now is not the time to press it.
  • if she says yes, then say "ok, put your number in my phone"
  • call her right there on the spot so that she can save your number as you (also lets you see if she's given you a real number)
  • immediately after leaving her, text her something funny that relates to what happened when you were talking (this is known as "callback humor")
  • text her every few days. DON'T ASK HER FOR ANYTHING.
  • send her what are called "value offering texts"
  • this means you're not asking her for anything, you're only SHARING VALUE
  • examples of value offering texts: sending her something funny you saw online, telling her something funny that happened to you that day, sending her a cute picture of your dog, etc (don't get hung up on these examples. Anything can work here, be creative)
  • if she doesn't text back, just keep sending her value offering texts every once in a while until something you say hooks her interest
  • if and when she does text back, engage her in a LIGHT, PLAYFUL back and forth (no serious topics, just joking around, etc)
  • once you've gotten her responding back to you, now text her a casual invitation something casual like "I'm doing XYZ on Friday with blah blah people, you should come"
  • you can make it a bit more flirtatious by doing it as a tease, e.g. something like "you can come, but only if you promise not to embarrass me in front of my friends"
  • if she says no or doesn't respond, let it drop. Don't text her for a while. Then go back to texting her value offering texts occasionally
  • when she responds, repeat. Say you're doing something else, tell her she should come. Etc

Again, I really want to emphasize that texting girls puts you in a BAD POSITION. It is literally impossible to attract women over text. This is because men and women have not evolved to become attracted to each other through text messages, but through LIVE, IN PERSON CUES.

A girl who's standing in front of you can be seduced. You can't seduce women over text and shouldn't try. The best you can hope for is to convey enough FUN over text that she's open to hanging out with you in person, and only then can seduction begin

Hope that helps.

[–]CaesarsInferno 9 points10 points  (4 children)

Man I’m so confused. I feel like I read on TRP to keep texting to only logistics but you mentioned those value sharing texts. And tbh you saying avoid texting (something I can understand) seems at odds with all that texting advice. I appreciate the advice I’m just so confused.

In my situation she had an exam coming up so I said okay well let’s swap numbers and plan something for after that. Otherwise I agree in person planning is better.

[–]2MikeHaines 13 points14 points  (0 children)

There is no "one right answer". I'm giving you what's worked best for me personally. Others will tell you what's worked for them. TEST EVERYTHING FOR YOURSELF and you'll find what works for you. This goes for absolutely everything you read here.

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (1 child)

Take everything you read here with a pinch of salt, I've never successfully gamed a girl texting just logistics, it doesn't work in this era where every girl is used to at least 1000 messages before meeting. I would advise that you keep the texts to an absolute minimum, as little as you can get away with. But if you feel like that's going to turn her off then don't be afraid to have a little fun, as long as it is just fun to you and you aren't being needy it's fine.

If you check my post history I got slated in Asktrp the other day for asking why Tinder dates are flaking on me. Long story short I was just texting logistics and girls would agree to meet but when it comes to the day they've forgotten who the fuck you are because you've done nothing to stand out. Anyways everyone there was like "next her" bla bla bla, I argued the point that surely it's better to just ask her what happened. Do I give a fuck if I come across beta? No because I 100% know I'm not so literally what is there to lose by texting her again? I left it a week, then I sent her a picture of my dick. Couple hours later she's suffocating on it. If I followed trp and not my gut I wouldn't have got that lay. I'm not saying trp is wrong in any way, most of it is correct. Just that your instincts as a man will always override any redpill theory, you are a man bro, YOU decide.

[–]CaesarsInferno 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Fair enough. Thanks for the insight.

[–]MyReddit6 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Basically, this dude does Hail Mary text game. You send her a text, something non sequiter, if she responds, you send more banal shit until the rare day you get her in the mood that she'll date you.

Can work, and is minimal effort. Especially if you only text when you're taking shits.

Otherwise, just stick with girls who are excited to see you. Will 100000x easier and require not much more than a few texts. The sort of game he advocates is good for young girls 18-21 who have retarded attention spans and fall for meme games etc, but follow thru is always uphill. It'll work now and then, and can't hurt. But if you're trying to do this on your dream girl, don't get your hopes up.

[–]LuvBeer 1 points1 points [recovered]

Great stuff, and very similar to the conventional corporate sales process to "nurture" leads. I'd only add that I've found moderate success thru snapchat as it allows you to touch multiple "leads" with fun updates without having to personalise, which can get exhausting if you have a full pipeline. They, as always, make the decision to buy when the time is right. I'm not on insta but assume the dynamic is similar.

[–]2MikeHaines 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks, yeah from what I've heard snapchat can work wonders for this kind of stuff. Never used it and never will though! (obviously I'd be more motivated to if I was single)

[–]poochman 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Snapchat is better for this type of text game.

[–]Cesare_MA 14 points15 points  (3 children)

God damn dude wrote a whole masters thesis on this shit.

[–]pri35t 6 points7 points  (1 child)

He is just promoting his blog

[–]Blackhawk2479 47 points48 points  (19 children)

I approached about 30 girls a week for some 78 consecutive weeks before I got my first same night lay from cold approach. From that point, it got easier. I knew game was real

You approached ~2400 girls to get one same-night lay - a success rate of less than 0.5% - and decided game worked?

Your logical thinking sucks. I think you have some good ideas in the rest of your post, but leave this sort of shit out next time because it adds nothing to your message.

[–]2MikeHaines 17 points18 points  (16 children)

Don't know what to tell you man, I was a hard case.

To be clear, I'm not saying I didn't get laid at all during that first year and a half. I got around a dozen or so lays from girls I went on dates with who I met through cold approach -- but it took me around a year and half to get my first SAME NIGHT lay (which is what I really got into game to learn)

[–]greenlittleman 7 points8 points  (7 children)

Most hard case is the guy who can't approach girls at all for years or for all his life even after knowing about pickup. What did you use to make so much approaches without decent positive reinforcement? This was some sort of hypnosis, or you just was so desperate and frustrated? Or maybe it was some sort of mindset?

And by the way - how is your daygame statistics now?

[–]2MikeHaines 19 points20 points  (6 children)

I definitely had some positive reinforcement in the form of getting the occasional number, date or makeout in the club.

how is your daygame statistics now?

Not a good question. The whole "pickup artist batting average" focuses you on the wrong things and is ultimately self-defeating. For example, if you only approach women who you're positive will like you, then you could approach 1 girl a year, get laid once a year, and have a "100% success rate"

On the other hand, you might have another guy who approaches anything that moves, and he ends up having sex with maybe 1 out of every 100 girls he approaches. This guy bangs 50 girls in a year but he has a "1% success rate"

It's a retarded measure and not something that I've ever even bothered to track

[–]greenlittleman 3 points4 points  (5 children)

By statistics I mean for example such an answer "I'm approaching mostly 7/10+ girls, in a year I do 500 approaches, get 50 dates/instant dates and bang 25 girls.". If talking about "success rate" then I'm completely agree. Because in mass pickup only matters quality and quantity. But statistics is necessary to measure more or less effective ways to pickup in same circumstances. The only real difference between "get in some confident state, using inner game and outer game, following pickup advices and having PU skills" and "just approaching girls without knowing anything and do random things" is in statistics. You'll get results in both cases. But in similar circumstances first way gives you more girls and they would be higher "quality".

[–]2MikeHaines 2 points3 points  (4 children)

Yeah I see what you mean. Let's see, back when I was single, after I'd actually started to get decent at game, I'd typically approach around 20 girls a week, get laid with a 7+ every 2 weeks or so (this is not including women already in my rotatation)

These are very rough averages though, like anything else you'll go through "feast and famine", like having one week where you fuck 3 different girls in a week, and then have a month long dry spell, and so on

[–]greenlittleman 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Thanks for the answer.

About famine - this is a good way to differentiate guys who really approaching a lot and those who lie about their success. I've heard that this effect exist because of how randomization works in probability theory.

[–]2MikeHaines 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Yup exactly, your lays are never going to be as evenly distributed as you'd like, though of course the harder you work it the more consistent you can be

In my case I believe I never really hit the potential of what I could have done with cold approach cos I got into a relationship. Obviously I'm happy now, but if I had stuck with it there's no doubt I would have gotten more consistent

[–]greenlittleman 0 points1 point  (1 child)

You mean you currently have monogamous relationships? I thought you still in game and your GF just accepted this. I know some guys even have open mLTR.

[–]2MikeHaines 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I still approach women and flirt with them for fun which my girl is cool with, I'm not out banging women though. For the first 2 years or so, it was more of a friends with benefits thing but as we became more serious I stopped fucking other girls

[–]Senior Contributordr_warlock 14 points15 points  (4 children)

Don't bother with him and the 24 people the upvoted that comment, they have poor reading comprehension. Even if that were true, it doesn't matter how you got to success, just get there. Some people have to work much harder than others boohoo.

It takes balls to approach good looking women you don't know which are always in groups when you think your rep is on the line. None of these guys critiquing are actually in the field trying.

[–]Endorsed ContributorMetalgear222 9 points10 points  (1 child)

Wondered how that got upvoted myself. Failure is fun and should be embraced consistently for growth in anything or any aspect.

[–]Blackhawk2479 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If you mean my comment it probably got upvoted because people actually read what I said.

To be clear, I agree that approaching is paramount and failure a necessity, but disagree that game works because he got success by approaching 2400 girls.

He got success because he approached 2400 girls. When did this place become such a big advocate of game?

[–]2MikeHaines 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Whats up Dr, good to see you! Wtf happened to your blog, you get taken down by the thought police?

[–]Senior Contributordr_warlock 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I thought it was the thought-police at first for the longest time, but it turns out there's a yearly 'blog fee' on top of hosting and privacy-is that I forgot to renew and was not notified of it.

Stop by here more often. We need more veteran material around here.

[–]Blackhawk2479 8 points9 points  (1 child)

I get that, but what I am saying is you may well have got more than one same-night lay WITHOUT game, because your sample rate was so high and your success rate so low - it’s always been about numbers more than anything.

My suggestion was leaving those sorts of details in, especially when drawing a flawed conclusion from them, actually detracted from your message and I thought that was a shame.

[–]2MikeHaines 20 points21 points  (0 children)

I get you man. The point I was trying to get across was that this shit was NOT easy for me to learn and took me almost unimaginable pain to get through, but it was worth it in the end. It's a message I think a lot of people who are struggling need to hear

[–]FuckMichaelMcCoy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You've got to be fucking crazy to take 'game' advice from someone with that success rate.

[–]Hoodwink -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

This post is a marketing post for Mark Manson.

The book is crap. Pirate it, if you don't believe me. It's garbage from a red-pill perspective.

Reads like a lot of female self-help crap.

[–]michaelkc03 9 points10 points  (5 children)

I agree with the philosophy of persistence, but I think it’s important to emphasize “only with attractive girls you’ve just met”.

I wouldn’t suggest persisting with your ex’s or girls from your past who have seen you lose frame. COMPLETE TIME SINK.

Also, your rule of 4 in which you say “only if you’re attracted to the girl”. Feels like you’re putting pussy on a pedestal...it’s all smoke and mirrors if you ask me...The 10 shits on the same toilet as the 1.

Thanks for the free content, I enjoyed most of it.

[–]2MikeHaines 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I agree with the philosophy of persistence, but I think it’s important to emphasize “only with attractive girls you’ve just met”.

Yeah bro, I strongly agree with you. I should have made it much clearer in the original post that this is applicable to COLD APPROACH ONLY

“only if you’re attracted to the girl”. Feels like you’re putting pussy on a pedestal

A few people have said this and I really don't understand it. I think it's a testosterone thing. When I see a pretty girl I just have this intense desire for her. It's a PHYSICAL thing. It's excitement and nervousness, but also arousal, horniness.

I found that when I amplified this feeling I got better results. When I tried to suppress it, my interactions were tepid at best

DESIRE IS GOOD. It's not putting the pussy on a pedestal. It's having a HEALTHY SEX DRIVE. This is attractive to women

[–]Endorsed Contributorex_addict_bro 11 points12 points  (0 children)

The 10 shits on the same toilet as the 1.

No they don’t.

1 shits out her Doritos in the greasy sleazy bathroom in her basement and the whole flat smells with rotten potatoes and coal

10 shits at some overseas hotel spa resort after she’s done with few hours of skiing with her friends

Not to mention they eat different so their poop smells different.

The toilet in question is also better quality. The plumbing for that matter is also.

[–]Glassantler 0 points1 point  (2 children)

I can understand how it sounds like he may be putting pussy on a pedestal, however, I would disagree. He is speaking about that instant lust, your body telling you that this female has most or all of the traits your genetics deem high quality, and is likely to produce quality offspring. This isn't a conscious choice, it's a biological one. Implying you have little control over that feeling they call "love at first sight", butterflies, etc... your brain tallies all the pros and cons of this woman's appearance, adds up the numbers and gets her average genetic compatability score. Resulting in how much attraction you have for her. This will show in the way you conduct yourself, since this is genuine, you will come off as being genuinely interested. The reason he says this, is because if you approach one of these girls, and aren't genuine, or have a high degree of skill in acting making yourself appear genuine in all you do and say, they will probably notice. In the same way we can tell when someone is actually interested in what we are saying vs. Pretending to be. That's the whole point he is making. They are asking themselves, "is this guy genuinely attracted to me?" If you aren't genuine it will show and potentially hurt your chances. Well that got a little longer than I intended. Oh well hopefully, that makes sense.

Edit: you should probably be careful in a situation like this to not actually act like you are putting her pussy on a pedestal, on a side note if you have seen that honest look of desire from a woman, that's what I mean. It just kind of shows through uncontrollably.

[–]2MikeHaines 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Thanks for your comment bro, yeah I agree with what you've said here. It's like I said above, there's big difference between putting her on a pedestal and having a strong sex drive that gives you a desire to possess that woman. The first weakens you, the second strengthens you

[–]Glassantler 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No problem, you just need to be confident in your alpha ways, so you don't potentially get overwhelmed and have some beta slip out. I'd say it can be a little intoxicating so one should even more aware of ones actions and frame.

[–]1sezamus 20 points21 points  (7 children)

This really got me thinking, because I was gaming a girl I was extremely interested in, but I was getting mixed signals from her and got my mind fucked all over not knowing if I am harshly friendzoned or if these are test.

I met that girl at one party. Her eyes just kickstarted my heart.

I asked her out, she rejected me with "I am a single by choice". Sometime later she asked me if I was going to some party she knew I was planning to attend. "Could you be there in around 20 minutes to show me where it is?" - she wrote. We started talking, dancing, I walked her and her female cousin home and I could see she got very shy. Via text I asked her out, but got rejected. Later, during our dance class she asked me how long I dance and we talked a little bit more. I considered myself already rejected so did not think of that as escalation from her side, but later we started going out together to salsa partyes. Then I thought that maybe she liked me, so I started escalating verbally but she was calming it down. On the other hand she was very comfortable while dancing with me very, very close. Once I walked her home and she had those "kiss me" eyes. Unfortunately a nasty herp had showed up on my lip few days before, so she hugged me pretty firmly. Next time I headed for a kiss, but she kinda paniced and doged, then another time same shit.

After your post I am considering this as a test, because I have very masculine look and I am being prejudiced by girls to be a "heartbreaker", probably because of my huge self-confidence. Of course on the other there is possibility that she is using me as an ego booster.

I was going to give up, but will try one more time. Maybe even more agressive.

Anyways, nice post! It is a pleasure to read some real stuff, not just "lift, be confident, practice game, be attractive" all over and over.

[–]2MikeHaines 11 points12 points  (5 children)

Cheers!

Yeah, I've been in dozens of similar situations (maybe even hundreds), it's just part and parcel of learning game. You get better at knowing the score through experience.

What's very important to realize is that these "tests" are almost always completely UNCONSCIOUS. In other words, the girl herself has no idea what she wants and wouldn't be able to explain why she's behaving in a contradictory and confusing way, giving mixed signals, etc, even if she tried.

However, overall, it functions as an evolutionary mechanism to screen out all but the most determined / committed / confident men.

It's interesting insofar as these kinds of "tests" can screen for both HIGH SOCIAL VALUE, OR for COMMITMENT (instead of just screening for one like most tests do).

In other words, there are two ways to pass this kind of test:

  • one is to be fucking so many other girls that when the chick does something confusing or gives you mixed signals you literally DON'T EVEN NOTICE IT and just keep gaming her because you're so intoxicated on your own sexual success (shows her you have healthy genes)

  • another way to pass it is to be so INSPIRED by her, sexually aroused by her, committed to getting her (in a non-needy way) that you're willing to overcome great difficulty to get her (signals to her DNA that you have the commitment to stick around after sex, which in our evolution was extremely important to the success of the offspring)

Make no mistake, the second one seems "beta" -- and should NOT be attempted until you've mastered the basics of "alpha" communication and mindsets. But it still plays a major role in who women choose to fuck, and even what they get turned on by (you can see this in romance novels, i.e. porn for women)

[–]1Self-honest 3 points4 points  (4 children)

But it still plays a major role in who women choose to fuck, and even what they get turned on by

Definitely. Some women more than others.

This is a word for word text I got an hour ago from a chick who knows I'm seeing other women, but asked me if I wanted her to be exclusive to me anyway. I told her yes (I don't really give a shit just calibrating to her vibe).

Her text: "Well just so you know... it turns me on knowing I’m only yours. Not sure why but i guess just knowing you don’t want to share me with anyone and want me all to yourself makes me just want to do anything you want"

[–]2MikeHaines 10 points11 points  (3 children)

Agreed but be careful! women are sneaky and will sometimes say stuff like this to bait you into going full beta, then unceremoniously next you. Many such cases!

[–]1Self-honest 4 points5 points  (1 child)

You're right that it could easily seem beta. My response to her text was not saying a damn word because I'm busy doing other more important things.

[–]2MikeHaines 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Hahah nice, that's probably what I'd do too

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CuMZSXIXgAANB8j.jpg

[–]1scissor_me_timbers00 2 points3 points  (0 children)

These hoes are crafty! I’ve developed a healthy contempt for the female ego and it’s shitty attitude.

[–]fishinatot 20 points21 points  (2 children)

Smooth read, really good formatting, read all of it in one go no stops Still noob gotta start approaching

[–]2MikeHaines 15 points16 points  (1 child)

Thanks! Lol, editing the fucking formatting until it looked right was by far the most frustrating part

[–]jazz_inmypants 1 point2 points  (0 children)

one more thanks for your insightful thoughts and neat formatting bro

[–]Aazaad 3 points4 points  (2 children)

Doesn't this post seem counter to the whole "Don't put her on a pedestal" and "Oneitis" advice that is part of the red pill dating advice here?

If you keep chasing a woman who rejects you once, twice, three times won't it give her the validation and make her even bitchier to other approaches?

[–]sirZofSwagger 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's all I hear when I read this too. Seems like something from other dating subreddits, not the redpill.

[–]2MikeHaines -1 points0 points  (0 children)

It really depends on the intent behind it. If you're doing it out of desperation, or because you feel like you "have to", it won't work. If you're doing it from a sincere and real attraction to the girl, it will.

[–]dix2long 2 points3 points  (1 child)

One thing I'm glad you touched on that most dudes I've come across fail/refuse to acknowledge is THE SMILE.

SMILE, SMILE, SMILE. I can't keep count of the things that went my way (when blue logic says it shouldn't) just because I know how to equip a smile. Use the weapons afforded to you, way to hit on it!!

[–]2MikeHaines 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah definitely, it can misinterpreted though because going in with a goofy try hard smile is worse than no smile.

It has to be a "sharky grin" -- kind of predatory and self-amused.

[–]fearl3ss 2 points3 points  (1 child)

You write like you're trying to sell me a $49 ebook.

I bet if I sign up for your blog I'll hear all about it. :)

[–]greenlittleman 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Actually this would be 67$ ebook. xD

[–]CadaverCsgo 6 points7 points  (3 children)

Great post. Definitely a different perspective on here.

One question though, how does this behavior not convey neediness? I believe a mans power is his ability to walk away, and choosing not too conveys neediness.

What are your thoughts?

[–]2MikeHaines 11 points12 points  (2 children)

It's true that your power comes from your ability to walk away -- though this only really applies ONCE YOU'RE IN SOME KIND OF RELATIONSHIP WITH HER (i.e. you've had sex with her at least once)

Before that happens, walking away accomplishes jack shit, because she gives zero fucks about a guy she hasn't slept with yet -- believe me.

Would you rather look needy sometimes and sometimes get laid? Or never look needy and never get laid?

This whole thing of avoiding looking "needy" is, imo, a massive waste of energy to think about and probably holds guys back more than anything else.

[–]CadaverCsgo 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Good point. However in the context of non-seductive interactions, I find that actively suppressing neediness actually leads to people liking you more. E.G. hanging with a some pals. I know you probably meant it in the terms of trying to get laid, though.

[–]2MikeHaines 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Yeah if it helps you, by all means. Just don't let words and concepts become a mental barrier that prevents you from behaving in the most effective possible way. This unfortunately happens to many people, their mind is so focused on the map they can't see the territory itself

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (4 children)

Be careful taking any advice from this man serious, he has proved in the past he is full of shit and is nothing but a scammer trying to make you feel good.

[–]2MikeHaines 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Interesting, tell me more.

Should I try to make people feel bad? Is that what will help them get laid?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Quit your scamming tactics, I have already seen the links your posted in the past where you claimed to sell mind control techniques and you keep changing your story. Drop the bullshit and contribute instead.

[–]2MikeHaines 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Show me your best contribution to the sub, maybe I can learn something from you

[–]sirZofSwagger 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This isn't redpill advice being packaged as redpill advice. The redpill isn't about worring if others feel bad or not, for real. Its about hard truths that are sometimes hard to swallow. If I hook up with some else's 10 they aren't gonna like it, but dark triad and other redpill theorys tell me not to concern myself with that. The kind of "persistence" you champion reeks of desperation and isn't good advice for the newbies here. In fact this advice would be better elsewhere.

[–]cyanidez 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Agree or not, thanks for taking the time to type this out and share with us (and a bit of shameless self-promotion as well)

[–]party_dragon 5 points6 points  (1 child)

I really liked this "line" from RSD Max: when he got brutally rejected once (I think it was at a bus stop, in front of other people), he yelled after the girl, "Call me!" to his own (and other spectators') amusement.

I find that hilarious. I think it could be used to great effect in situations like your 14 (girl walking past you without even acknowledging your existence), to make yourself laugh and keep your state high!

[–]2MikeHaines 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hahah yeah that's an old Tyler line, I've used that a few times on women who blew me off always makes me laugh my fucking ass off lol

[–]MikeN_ike 15 points16 points  (7 children)

We've found it boys, a new idea

Prepare to be downvoted because of it

[–]greenlittleman 11 points12 points  (1 child)

This guy is author of one of most upvoted posts in Red Pill... Moreover idea here is mostly the same. Just recently some guys are started talking about "just improve yourself and fuck lower value easy girls".

[–]MikeN_ike 3 points4 points  (0 children)

The post actually blew up, I was just making the point that it seems like most new ideas on this sub get completely thrown out the window

It's all the same shit over and over that gets upvoted while all of the original stuff gets shit on even if it's somewhat valid

[–]sirZofSwagger 2 points3 points  (3 children)

Entering a women's frame and then putting them on a pedestal isnt a new idea.....

[–]MikeN_ike 0 points1 point  (2 children)

No it's not, what made you believe I was referring to that exactly

The people who post those types of thing deserve to be downvoted.

[–]sirZofSwagger 1 point2 points  (1 child)

The idea behind this writing was that men should be persistent, not even stop when they have been rejected "4 times" by a HB 10. While persistence isnt a bad quality, it demonstrates low value to constantly persue someone who is rejecting you. And other women and friends will see this and assume low value as well. Not to mention it flat out doesnt makes sense from a frame perspective. You want to women to enter into your frame, not the other way around. You do this by making your self the prize and abunduance mentality. If women are abundantly available to you, then are you really going to bother with little miss rejection 4 times?

Anyways this may or may not be a effective method for some men, but defiantly isn't redpill. The fact that so many people are celebrating this post suggest the redpill is dieing.

[–]MikeN_ike 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You have me douped honestly, I suppose you're right

I guess everything red pill has been already covered so extensively that any new idea would really just be trash anyways, yes this post does glorify non red pill behavior

[–]Eclectiqque 4 points5 points  (3 children)

thanks a lot for the post. it's quite hard to get the clout you've got from the other big post, but i'm sure this will be appreciated as well

one question: how do you balance neediness and

  1. She wants to be chased.

Luring you close… and then making herself “inaccessible” so that you’ll chase her… is actually what turns her on.

She wants to be pursued.

She wants to be, in a sense, overpowered by your desire for her.

or

A “Total 10” knows her own value (to some extent), and she wants to feel like you’re going to lengths to get HER which you’d almost never go to with any other girl.

in other words: how do you balance neediness and the pursue? i know it's something from inside but yes, i feel needy, when i pursue her multiple times

[–]2MikeHaines 8 points9 points  (2 children)

Thanks bro. To answer your question, use lots of push/pulls. It's important to get her chasing you too. Push/pulls will do this.

Tease her. Make fun of her. Mock her a little. Give her compliments, but balance it out with teasing. This will flip the dynamic so she's the one chasing you.

To be honest with you I feel like this whole idea of "avoiding neediness" has been overdone.

I never think about neediness. Ever. It's just not a word that ever enters my mind.

When there's a cute girl in front of me, all I'm thinking about is how much I enjoy looking at her pretty face and how much I'd like to fuck her. I'm not thinking about "how do I not be needy", I'm purely thinking about the fact that I want to fuck her, and that I enjoy spending time in the company of a feminine girl. That's it.

[–]Eclectiqque -1 points0 points  (1 child)

that's very relieving as it's probably the next step I will undertake in becoming even more natural. Probably the neediness idea is just like those things (idk ow they're called) that you put around a building as you're building it. once the foundation is strong and the walls are there, you take them off. like bike helping wheels.

thanks for this, it brought me value. any way i can donate to you? pm me your paypal address?

[–]2MikeHaines 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yeah man, that's a really great analogy. That's exactly what concepts like that are for -- they help you get out of the blue pill mentality, but once they've been internalized you can let them go.

Nah, thanks for offering but I don't take donations. I sell a product on sexual escalation called the Domination Principle (I won't spam links to it here but if you want to buy it you can find it if you look on my site). Take care

[–]dontbethatguynow 1 points1 points [recovered]

good post, but to be honest i'd rather have 4 8's than a 10

[–]2MikeHaines 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I feel you, that was my mentality for many years too and it's a healthy one

[–]alexk245 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Is all this analysis worth it just for a higher chance to fuck a very good looking girl?

[–]2MikeHaines 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What I'm saying comes into play if you want anything higher than a 7

That applies to getting one LTR or multiple lays a month

I just made it about the "total 10" thing to give it a singular theme and focus, but it's applicable to all game

[–]MrSaiyan_333_ 4 points5 points  (1 child)

How to remain non-needy and be "the prize" when obviously you're the one that's chasing her and competing for her?

Would you still do push-pull and other techniques when you're following this method?

[–]2MikeHaines 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yes, absolutely. This is not meant to be looked at as a "complete guide" to game or anything like it -- just one part of the bigger picture. Push/pulls, emotional spiking etc is all GREAT

[–]FatGirlsInPartyHats 4 points5 points  (3 children)

Good post however I highly advise against marrying and having children with any woman who has pictures of herself practically naked on the internet.

[–]2MikeHaines 3 points4 points  (2 children)

Lol, does it make a difference if I was the one who posted it

On a more serious note, no to marriage, yes to children (with the right woman). I won't get into details of my personal relationship but she's been 100% solid for 5+ years

[–]FatGirlsInPartyHats 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Hey man, if you're happy then I'm happy. I'd definitely recommend somehow protecting yourself from getting financially raped in the event things go south. People being in happy, stable marriages for 10+ years then it all exploding is the rule, not the exception. Kids complicate things, marriage or not. Just trying to look out for you.

[–]2MikeHaines 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Yeah man, no I agree 100%. This ain't my first rodeo, I'm going into this with eyes wide open, believe me

[–]notonlyplace 1 point2 points  (1 child)

One of my issues is I missed the excitement I had when I was blue pill, I enjoy feelings like she was amazing and my heart racing, PUA,game, TRP taught me to numb this feeling which was good for a newbie.

Normally when I have this feeling I always tell my self I'm crazy and she is just a regular person but the truth is she is not regular at least not to me and I should correctly show her that.

Thank you for posting this, this just really open my mind to a entirely new approach and concept, and your writing style is consistent, and very well written.

[–]2MikeHaines 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah, you see the funny thing is, if you try to RESIST the feeling that you like her, it will actually become stronger, making you "needy"

But if you GIVE IN to the feeling, and just say, "ok, I have a strong desire for her because she's highly feminine and attractive. That's good, because it's good to feel passion", then you paradoxically gain more control over the feeling and don't act in a needy way.

Excitement is good. Passion is good. Strong emotions are good.

Emotions are contagious and will spread to the girl. If you feel strong sexual desire for her (horniness), you can actually transfer that onto her through your eye contact, body language, words, etc. Likewise with passion, excitement, etc.

Don't try to run from these emotions. AMPLIFY THEM. They are one of the major keys to making game work.

[–]Chrisaub2 1 points1 points [recovered]

I have not been doing as much approaching as I should, but in most instances, they have rejected me first, until I saw them again and tried it again almost like the first time didnt happen, some of them turned into lays, more so than just instant yes.

[–]2MikeHaines 0 points1 point  (0 children)

yeah it's the biggest undiscovered secret in game!

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

There is a lot of good advice here. I totally agree with the don't let the first rejection make you go off and cry in your corner.

I cannot tell you how many women will tell me after I take them home how annoying it is when men don't approach them because they are a 10 or men that give up to easy. The get totally turned off by it.

I go into any bar or club and find the hottest women that are there and some poor dude sitting in the corner and say go up and talk to her. 9 out of 10 call me crazy and say it is impossible and no point in trying. The tenth person tries once gets laughed at and never tries again. I walk over let her grind on me on the dancefloor and if I want to talk her home.

As far as the comments regarding text it is best to avoid it at all cost. You literally lose your power when you are the one that has to wait for a response. Never ever let the women dictate the terms and the ground to play on. The only winning move is not to play.

It takes practice but you don't have anything to lose. The worse that can happen is you have alone just like you showed up. If those are the odds the odds of try are in your favor.

[–]2MikeHaines 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks! yeah I agree, esp with what you said about texting, ughhh I hate that shit.

[–]Scandinavianredpill 1 point2 points  (0 children)

a 9 grinded her ass into me at a disco. I don't know her. she doesn't know me, but she did it in a way that her pussy rubbed me going from the floor and up. moral of the story: Look good get girls. If you don't have that you better have social proof, money (security) or tick a fetish box for that girl. Improve yourself instead of becoming a empty can of pickup lines and learned behaivor.

[–]Pymple 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This actually works. I thought I was just lucky a few times

[–]Hviterev 1 point2 points  (1 child)

It reminds me of some 9 I was trying to get a date with, I had to ask about 3 times and gave up. Then she hit me with "what time was it?" on the day of the date. Maybe not exactly the same, but I was dumbfounded back then.

Good shit!

[–]2MikeHaines 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks yeah, a lot of guys would be surprised by how far they'd get if they just put a LITTLE more effort in

[–]thegrizness 1 points1 points [recovered]

Killer post. Has some really good points. I think there's a fine line to walk between being too pushy and giving up to easily. The 4 rule sounds like a decent and simple way to think about it. Thanks Mike.

[–]2MikeHaines 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Cheers bud. Yeah the 4 Times Rule for sure is a great heuristic, very useful

[–]asfasfsadzzzz 1 point2 points  (1 child)

This sounds both rapey and autistic

[–]2MikeHaines 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks for your thoughtful feedback on the post, asfasfsadzzzz

[–]lmk4 1 point2 points  (0 children)

chasing a woman is pathetic. especially if she said no and you keep pursuing. how much respect do you have for yourself? it’s this bitch behavior that puts women on pedestals and enables the behavior that they have today.

[–]logoscrvult 1 point2 points  (1 child)

This post is fucking brilliant. It just clicked, THIS is how I landed the 10s in my life. I was overflowing with confidence and was just MESMERIZED by these chicks that their initial rejections barely phased me. Since I started lifting again, focusing on all aspects of self improvement my confidence is slowly coming back. I will try this next time I'm out. Thank you so much. I don't think I would have come to the conclusion myself.

[–]2MikeHaines 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for the comment dude, glad it could be of some help!

[–]PrepositionalChi 1 point2 points  (1 child)

great article. Thank you very much for posting it Mike!

[–]2MikeHaines 0 points1 point  (0 children)

np man thanks for the comment

[–]MyReddit6 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hmmm while I appreciate the formatting and write up..... sort of disagree....

Is this based on night game? Any time I've gamed a "10" during the day or at a social function it's been easy mode. Like they're excited someone finally approached them.

In fact, I'd say the hot instagram model girls have shit tested me less and given less drama than the 6s & 7s who think they're hot shit but are actually immature little #metoooo sluts.

Just max looks, play to your strengths and have a normal conversation. "Game" is not necessary - she already KNOWS she has dozens of rich guys willing to jump thru hoops for her. In my experience, the more NORMAL you can be, the easier it is to be "hes just such a relaxed guy" to these sorts of girls.

Just my $0.02

[–]Slim___ 1 point2 points  (2 children)

There was a study mentioned in the audio version of "The Myth of Male Power." But I can't find it anywhere with a quick search. The study generated statics on how many women had initially said "No" to the man that they were currently in a relationship with. The statics were overwhelming -- men who don't take "no" for an answer succeed with women.

[–]2MikeHaines 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Very interesting, never know there'd been studies done but doesn't surprise me. Will definitely look that up

[–]Slim___ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I couldn't find it using quick searches on the ebook version or with Google, but I'm positive I remember it from the audio version, which is different then the printed version. The audio version is done as a q&a with the author. As i remember it he was making a point about sexual harassment charges and saying that women should have to live with the consequences of saying "No." i.e. men shouldn't try to push past a "no" but force women to do without once they said "no." I don't necessarily agree with that. Because IMO it is a futile to attempt to change 100s of thousands of years of female evolution. That will fail everytime. When a man tries to change his Nature to accommodate the feminine, it always ends badly. Women ain't gonna change their lizard brains anytime soon. They couldn't if they wanted to. They're still gonna test man by saying "no" and judging his response. It's a basic shit test.

[–]Spets87 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Top quality post. After getting plenty of Tinder action it's time to man up and do this shit in the real world. Thanks OP, you really did help me finally push myself over the edge.

[–]2MikeHaines 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Cheers man, glad it could give you some inspiration

[–]GainzdalfTheWhey 1 point2 points  (2 children)

pastebin -> https://pastebin.com/tHGPHnnn

PART I: MARK MANSON LIED TO YOU

  1. If you’re a serious student of game, you have read Models by Mark Manson. In my opinion, it’s the best book on success with women that’s ever been written. Unfortunately, some of the teachings of this book have been turned into an ideology which many guys in the seduction community now cling to dogmatically.

  2. The rejection myth In this post I am going to annihilate one of the core teachings of Models — an idea which has been embraced as revealed truth in the seduction community for years now. This is the idea that pursuing women who have rejected you is a “time sink”, and you should simply move on to those who are more interested.

  3. The premise of the myth: Here’s what Mark writes in his book: “I’ll say this, in six years, after approaching thousands of women, and hooking up with hundreds of them, I can think of less than 10 instances where a woman was flat out unreceptive towards me and I ‘won her over’. If she shuts you down, tells you to go away, tells you she’s not interested, tells you she has a boyfriend—move on. Seriously, get over it and move on. You’re wasting your time. There are 3.1 billion women on this planet. She’s not worth it.” While this advice is good for beginners, it promotes a DEFEATIST ATTITUDE which will prevent you from getting laid with the most attractive women in the long-run. Specifically, it will prevent you from attracting and mating with the kind of woman I call a “Total 10”. This is because the highest quality women almost invariably give you the harshest tests, and if you’re inexperienced (or even intermediate), you will misinterpret these tests as “rejection”.

  4. My background I didn’t lose my virginity until I was 18. After my first girlfriend broke things off, I spent 2 years involuntarily celibate. At 21, I discovered “red pill” ideas (back then it was just called game). I started working on my cold approach skills with a relentless, almost autistic intensity. I approached about 30 girls a week for some 78 consecutive weeks before I got my first same night lay from cold approach. From that point, it got easier. I knew game was real, and now it was just a matter of getting more efficient at it. Soon I was pulling ass every two weeks, more or less, like clockwork. I banged a lot of pretty girls from my college, along with the occasional model, actress or exotic dancer. Six years later I’m in a long-term relationship with the girl pictured here. We plan on having kids soon.

  5. A “Total 10” defined I’m with a woman who is a Total 10 to me. I want you to be able to do the same. When I talk about a Total 10, I mean a girl who is (to you) a 10/10 in both looks and personality. She’s exquisitely beautiful and highly feminine. She’s the type of girl who’s so pretty that it physically hurts when you see her on another guy’s arm. This is the kind of woman I want you to be with. And this is the calibre of woman you will never get if you have internalized the idea that you should only focus on women who make themselves easy to approach.

PART II: THE PSYCHOLOGY OF A “TOTAL 10”

  1. When you approach a 9 or 10, it almost NEVER goes easy at the start. Commonly, she will give you the following kinds of reactions: looking at you like what you’re doing is weird turning away and pretending to ignore you laughing at you or making a face giving you just enough attention to get you hooked, then running away without explanation kissing you, then disappearing to the bathroom and the next time you see her she’s flirting with some other guy

  2. These hostile reactions are NORMAL They don’t go away when you get better at game, or get more good looking (trust me, I’ve done both over the years) These hostile reactions are normal, and they are necessary. They are the girl’s (unconscious) way of testing you.

  3. Testing you for what exactly? Dominance? Charisma? Value? Alpha male characteristics? No. It is much more simple. She already knows you’re a man of value because you approached her. This puts you in the top 5% of all men. So why is she testing you?

  4. She’s testing your desire for her. “Is this man so strongly attracted to me that he is willing to overcome any obstacle to get me?” If she's interested in you, this is the burning question a Total 10 wants to find out with every fibre of her being. And this is why she tests you, irritates you intentionally and places obstacles in your path…. even after you’ve displayed value by approaching her.

  5. Being an alpha male is not enough Women want alpha males. However, a Total 10 has many alpha males competing for her. You have to be alpha male — and you have to have a profound and aching desire for her. A desire so energizing that it enables you to blast through any bullshit she throws at you with a smile, and keep pursuing her even in the face of seemingly insurmountable odds.

  6. This is what all women crave on the deepest level. It is the plot of every romance novel. It’s the driving impulse of every erotic story. It is the reason women spend hours doing their hair and makeup to lure as much male attention as possible — but then, upon arriving at the club, go to great pains to make themselves appear unattainable. Unapproachable. Inaccessible. Prohibited.

  7. She wants to be chased. Luring you close… and then making herself “inaccessible” so that you’ll chase her… is actually what turns her on. She wants to be pursued. She wants to be, in a sense, overpowered by your desire for her. This is arousing to women.

  8. “The desire of the man is for the woman. The desire of the woman is for the desire of the man.” (Madame de Stael) A “Total 10” knows her own value (to some extent), and she wants to feel like you’re going to lengths to get HER which you’d almost never go to with any other girl. And so she tests you. She places obstacles in your path. And occasionally, she flat out REJECTS you — just to see if you’ll come back and try again. When you do, she becomes aroused by your persistence and your desire. When you don’t, she forgets about you and moves on. Rejecting you is part of her process of becoming attracted to you.

[–]GainzdalfTheWhey 0 points1 point  (1 child)

PART III: REJECTING YOU IS PART OF A WOMAN’S PROCESS OF BECOMING ATTRACTED TO YOU

  1. White trainers This has all been pretty theoretical, so let me give you a concrete example of how this dynamic works. A few years ago I was in a club on my own, and I saw a pretty girl walking through. She was about 18. Blue eyes, dark hair, great boobs, long legs. She was wearing a mini-skirt and white trainers. I walked up to her. The floor was empty apart from me and her. There were about a dozen people watching us, seated around us on various couches.

  2. The ultimate humiliation I extended my hand to the girl. “Hey I’m Mike. Who are you?” She looked at me and made a face. She walked past me without even breaking her stride, leaving me standing with my hand held out in mid-air like a chump. The people on the couches laughed and hollered at this. My cheeks burned with shame. I could actually feel my testosterone levels plummeting. I quickly fled the scene.

  3. “How awkward can I make this” Around twenty minutes later, I was out in the smoking area nursing my wounds. I spotted the girl in the white trainers smoking a cigarette with her friends. Out of some kind of perverse masochistic instinct, I said to myself, “I wonder what would happen if I approached her again?” How awkward can I make this? I wanted to find out. So I approached her as if nothing had happened. “You’re cute,” I said bluntly. “I had to meet you.” I held out my hand. She smiled at me. I got a look at her eyes properly for the first time. She was really beautiful. “Hi!” she said. “Who are you?”

  4. It was like I was speaking to a DIFFERENT PERSON. We got to talking and I started teasing her a little bit and put my arm around her. Soon we were making out. We left together 20 minutes later. An hour later she was naked in my bed sucking my cock.

  5. Epiphany As we cuddled in bed afterwards, I asked her what caused her to change her mind. I was genuinely curious about what the fuck had just happened. “What do you mean?” she said. “When I approached you near the bar, you totally blew me off. But when I approached you in the smoking area, you were into it. What did I do differently the second time?” “You never approached me at the bar,” she said. “Yes I did.” “Hmmm. I don’t remember that.”

  6. Cracking the code After that experience I started doing things differently. From then on, when a girl rejected me, I would walk away, then come back and re-engage her an hour, twenty minutes, or even just 5 minutes later. Shockingly, almost every single one of the girls I “re-approached” after being initially rejected responded extremely positively to me on my second approach. I ended up fucking dozen of pretty girls who had—just hours earlier—seemingly “rejected” me. All from simply walking away and then re-initiating with them again a few minutes later.

  7. The art of “flipping” Pretty soon, I largely dispensed with the need to re-approach altogether. Now when a girl “rejected” my approach, I didn’t even take it seriously any more. I just kept talking to her, teasing her and smiling like a fuckhead anyway. Almost every time I did this, the girl would sooner or later “flip” from being non-responsive and bitchy to being friendly and flirtatious. Again—it was like talking to a completely different person.

  8. Biologically programmed This has worked so consistently for me that I’ve come to believe women are actually biologically programmed to respond to persistence in this way — much the same way that we are biologically programmed to be turned on by big boobs or a flash of bare leg. In other words, it’s not a choice. When you can hold frame and tease her playfully in the face of her initial resistance, she will be as attracted to you as you are by seeing a hot 21 year old in a bikini. It’s an automatic, unconscious response which she has no control over. She may hate you, find you irritating and consider you loathsome. But she will be attracted to you.

THE BOTTOM LINE

  1. The proper response to a woman “rejecting” you, telling you to go away, telling you she has a boyfriend—is to hold frame, SMILE LIKE A FUCKING SHARK and continue talking to her in a playful and challenging way. If you can do this convincingly, she will slowly turn from unreceptive… to attracted and aroused. Sometimes it happens immediately. Other times it takes a few “tries” before she starts to warm up. But it happens almost every time. (Very often you’ll find that reason she was “cold” initially was just that she felt nervous and self-conscious around you. In other words, you were actually too high value, and it caused her to become shy and reactive.) Since learning this, this is where around 80% of my lays from cold approach have come from. In one form or another, it’s how I attracted every every really hot girl I’ve ever dated, slept with or was in an LTR with — including my current LTR.

  2. You’re not going to be able to do this well immediately. The first few times you try it, it won’t really work. However, once you get good at this — it is the secret which unlocks the entire game. When you respond non-chalantly to the fact that she “rejected” you, and continue talking to her in a relaxed and playful way, this is what MAKES HER attracted to you.

  3. Holding frame and being playful and relaxed in the face of her initial rebuff is what makes her aroused by you. Persisting in the face of her initial cold response is not something you do in order to be able to game her. It is the game.

  4. The only way you can prove this to yourself is by doing it. If you’re an online theory autist then don’t even bother thinking about any of this. It will only work for guys who are GOING OUT and ACTUALLY APPROACHING. I can’t prove it works to you with words. You have to actually go out and try this for a while (and get decently good at it, because it is a skill) before you’ll see it works with your own eyes. But it does work. And if you don’t understand this crucial part of the game, you simply will not get the women you really want.

[–]GainzdalfTheWhey 0 points1 point  (0 children)

FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS

Q: OK, SO WHAT CONSTITUTES A “REAL” REJECTION? WHEN SHOULD YOU GIVE UP?

A: This was a question I got a lot in response to my "Get Laid Like A Warlord" post. A better way to phrase the question is this: How many times should you keep trying with a girl, in the face of her giving you a hostile or negative reaction? The answer is FOUR. You can (and must) try up to FOUR times, or else you will simply seem like too much of a push-over to be attractive. Her first THREE rebuffs are to be regarded as TESTS. Her FOURTH rebuff is to be regarded as a real and sincere rejection—and should be honored with a certain formal respect. That’s when you move on. If you keep trying to get with her after four times of being rebuffed in an interaction, that’s where you start to legitimately look like a low value creep. If you persist LESS than four times, however, you simply will not convey enough information about your status in the dominance hierarchy for her to become attracted to you. This is called the Four Times Rule, and I did not invent it. A guy called Alexander did — and I am forever grateful to him for doing so. (Alex used to teach for RSD. He now runs his own thing — check him out on Youtube HERE.)

Q: SO YOU’RE SAYING LOOKS DON’T MATTER AT ALL AND I CAN BE 200 POUNDS OVERWEIGHT AND I JUST HAVE TO KEEP PERSISTING WITH THE HOTTEST GIRL IN THE CLUB AND SHE’S GOING TO DROP HER PANTIES AND FUCK ME RIGHT THERE?

A: No. This will not work for you if you’re morbidly obese. It will not work for you if you’ve got extreme health problems, open sores all over your face, or have a cock where your nose should be and a nose where your cock should be. This advice will work for average, typical looking guys, with good hygiene, who are in decent shape, have decent style, a nice haircut, and good clothes. In other words, it will work for 99% of the guys here reading this. I’m not interested in getting into autistic arguments about the relative importance of looks and game. I’m not a particularly good looking guy but I’ve made it work. If this causes you cognitive dissonance, take it elsewhere. I’m here to help people like me—regular, boring, normal guys who want an edge. Contrary to what the media would like you to believe, the vast majority of men who study game online are not obese, basement dwelling neckbeards. Getting into arguments about “b-b-but it won’t work for the fedora neckbeard morbidly obese virgin D&D players!” is a complete and utter waste of time, because such hard-cases actually constitute a fractional minority of the people reading this. (If you don’t believe me, just look at the crowd in videos of an RSD seminar, or the 21 Convention.)

Q: THIS IS TOO MUCH WORK. I’LL JUST STICK TO TINDER / PORN / ANIME / MY FLESHLIGHT / WAIFU PILLOWS / ETC

A: You’re right that this is too much work to do with every girl. That’s not what I’m recommending. This is appropriate only to do with women you’re really sexually attracted to. In other words, this will only work on girls who have a femininity about them that deeply energizes you. Another way of putting it is… You know when you see a girl who’s so pretty you immediately get nervous and get butterflies in your stomach? This is to be used on THOSE kinds of women. The ones whose beauty and feminine energy truly inspires you. A lot of girls you approach will just be “practice approaches”, or approaches to warm up when you get in the venue, or approaches simply to be social and express yourself. You’re not especially attracted to the girl, and although you might fuck her once, you wouldn’t keep her around. What I’m advocating here is NOT APPROPRIATE in those situations, because it’s inauthentic. Pursuing a woman in the face of tests and resistance only works when it’s pure. And it’s only pure when you’re doing it out of a genuine and sincere desire for her. If you don’t feel this desire for women — if you don’t feel butterflies in your stomach when you see a beautiful girl — then you need to cultivate this, because it’s what makes everything else in game work. Do nofap (hardmode—no “edging”). Lift heavy weights for testosterone. Drink protein shakes, and make sure you’re maxing out or exceeding your protein macros every day. (This last one seems trivial, but I only started doing it properly a year ago and fucking hell has it ever made me hornier.)

Q: STOP ATTACKING MARK MANSON. HE’S CONTRIBUTED MORE TO THE PICKUP COMMUNITY THAN YOU HAVE

A: This shouldn’t be construed as an attack on him personally. I am instead attacking a particular ideology which has taken hold in the manosphere/PUA community — partially as a result of the popularity of his book — and which says that pursuing a woman who has “rejected” you is a “time-sink”. This advice is a “white lie” which is actually very good for beginners. He’s telling his audience (who are mainly complete newbies to game) what they need to hear to start approaching, and not take negative reactions too seriously. However, when this “time sink” idea is taken dogmatically, it hinders your ability to attract the women you want by promoting a defeatist mentality and and making you easily demoralized. I neg Mark Manson a bit in this post, but it’s in good humor (like all my negs). I respect him as a writer and love the core message of Models.

Q: WHAT IF THE GIRL SCREAMS AT YOU OR HITS YOU OR GIVES YOU AN EXTREME RESPONSE? SHOULD YOU STILL KEEP TRYING UP TO FOUR TIMES?

A: If the girl is giving you extreme responses like this, there’s something very, very wrong with how you’re playing the game. What I’m advocating here will ONLY work if your approach is chill and normal. If you’re using extremely “high risk / high reward” forms of physical game (grabbing the girl immediately on the approach, trying to kiss her etc), then that changes the equation quite a lot. I’m not saying using aggressive physical game doesn’t work — it often does, and in some environments it’s actually the only game that works. But in this case, you need to be very well calibrated to how she’s responding. This is a topic for another time, however.

Q: DOESN’T THIS RISK MAKING WOMEN FEEL UNCOMFORTABLE AND GETTING HIT WITH A HARASSMENT CHARGE?

A: Talking to somebody is not a violation of their rights. She can walk away any time she wants. As long as you’re not being physically invasive, you have the right to talk to anyone you want in a social venue (or even on the street in the day), and they have the right to walk away if they’re uncomfortable. (Don’t even look at a woman in work.) If the girl is telling you to go away, but she’s still standing in front of you without moving, guess what? It’s a free country. You can talk to whoever you want, and they can leave whenever they want. A little trick you can do any time you’re trying to make some magic happen and she tells you to go away is this: Simply tell her, “You’re free to leave whenever you want.” 90% of the time, not only will she NOT leave when you say this, but she’ll grin and start laughing because you’ve called her bluff. Women like men, guys. I know this might seem like a huge bombshell (especially in our current environment), but attractive women actually enjoy talking to men, and they get good emotions from being flirted with and pursued by a cool guy.

TL; DR

Man up, you sons of bitches. You need to start ENJOYING a bit of conflict in your approaches. Let it energize you. Let it motivate you to double down and ramp up the fucking charisma levels even higher. Walking away from every woman who gives you the slightest negative feedback, and thinking that this is “saving you time”, is A PHILOSOPHY OF LOSERS. I want you to be energized by apparent rejection. I want you to get HARD when you heard the word “no”. That goes for whether you hear it from a girl, your boss, that prospect you’re trying to close, or whoever else.

And on that note, I leave you with the immortal words of the man who is in spirt and should be in actuality the REAL patron saint of the pickup community — not leftist soy boy “Mark Manson”, but him they call The Bronze Age Pervert:

“Ancient men conquered cities and put them to the sword and fire. Meanwhile you go to WINE BAR with ‘gf’ and enjoy tasteful banter.. YOU ARE GAY!!” — BAP, 2017

— If you enjoyed this post, you might like my blog. Start with my most popular article: How To Have Sex With A Woman You've Just Met

[–]Zech4riah 5 points6 points  (3 children)

Good post and extra +1 from the formatting :D

I think that the most PUAs preach about being persistent while cold approaching and handling shittests. But after getting her number and trying to arrange dates, you should next her after ~3 rejections.

This "being too high value"-thing keeps coming up from time to time. Do you have any advice how to distinguish "I don't like you"-rejection from "you are too high value"-rejection? Sometimes it's sort of obvious if I do warm up sets and talk to average girls but with hotter girls it's really hard to tell or even hard to imagine that an 8 would consider me "too high value" for her after only couple of mins talking (I doubt I can demonstrate so much value in such a short time).

[–]2MikeHaines 7 points8 points  (2 children)

Thanks, and yeah I generally agree. I don't like chasing girls over text, it's not a good look. Don't want to get too into this, as text game is a different topic which requires playing by very different rules, might make a post about it in future.

The "too high value" thing is basically like another way of saying, "You're taking yourself too seriously, and it's making the girl tense." DUMB YOURSELF DOWN a bit to relate to her, by being goofy, silly, saying stupid non-sensical stuff and you'll generally get a better reaction.

There are, of course, cases where the girl is (or perceives herself to be) higher value than you. In this case, teasing her (or even negging her, if she's extremely hot) can be a powerful way to get her engaged and attracted.

[–]greenlittleman 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Or you can avoid text game altogether either by starting leading her to your place from the start, or setting up a date (in 1-3 days) before asking the phone.

[–]2MikeHaines 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah, this is what I strongly advocate for. You'll also find that when you lead hard on the first interaction, even if you don't wind up having sex, it makes the number 1000% more solid

[–]Redpillandrew 1 point2 points  (2 children)

I found the post groundbreaking. Never heard of something like that and still I'm starting to remind of when I was younger, knew no pill, no game and I sometimes pushed through rejection, making my way to the lay. To the point that, back in those days, I actually believed this was the way, with women. You just have to know how to do it properly. Again, great post.

[–]2MikeHaines 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Cheers mate, appreciate the feedback

[–]1scissor_me_timbers00 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Holding frame conquers all breh

[–]bluedragon239 2 points3 points  (2 children)

This is like a restating and continuation of "how to get laid like a WARLORD"

Which I love.

I like all the points hit here. But one thing

Clearing the base condition that your are physically attractive (good skin, white teeth, low Body fat, LIFTING, etc)

How in the world does no mean yes? How do you know if she really just isn't into you because she's depressed or in a bad mood or genuinely not interested?

How do you differentiate between a "test" and an actual genuine "not interested" rejection?

Because you can eliminate a lot of bullshit and know how to proceed if you can differentiate between these

Test = persist and reopen/reapproach (lol what would you say here) Rejection = move on

Again, I like the points and theory here but as some people are saying, doesn't persistence ultimately give off a needy vibe? After all, an alpha who has abundance wouldn't persist would he?

[–]2MikeHaines 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Thanks for the feedback man. I answered this question in the FAQ under the headline "what constitutes a real rejection?"

[–]Flpgneves 2 points3 points  (4 children)

Interesting post.

I believe rejections (at least the first ones) are like a modified version of a shit test, 10x stronger. So if you pass this "shit test", the girl will see a lot of value in you.

A girl once told me something along the lines "If he can handle my attitude, I'll like him. That's hot in a man". That led me to believe that until a certain point in a interaction, the girl is trying to reject you, even if it doesn't look like it. It's what I call "active shit tests phase". If you can get past that, it's when she definitely sees value in you and will start to chase. But she will keep testing you, it's the "passive shit tests phase". This is a part of the interaction where many men fail, because the shit tests are kinda hidden, it doesn't seem she's testing you anymore, but SHE IS. However, she already likes you in this phase, so you just have to NOT screw it up. This is usually the part of the interaction where personality and game experience matters most. You can pass the "active shit tests phase" with looks or social status, for example. The next phase is more indirect and nuanced.

If you pass both phases the girl will know you're alpha. You can "handle her attitude".

[–]2MikeHaines 1 point2 points  (3 children)

"If he can handle my attitude, I'll like him. That's hot in a man".

I like this quote, it sums a lot up nicely. Girls have told me similar kinds of things over the years, eventually you hear enough women let slip something like that and put it together with your field experience and you get massive epiphanies.

What makes it hard is that in 99% of cases, the girl herself has zero clue what's really governing her behavior, she's just responding to her natural impulses and as a guy you have to keep taking action and tracking the results until you eventually arrive at a theory that actually fits

[–]Flpgneves 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Agreed.

Let me show you an infield that illustrates perfectly what I'm trying to say. It's by ex-RSD Todd. The first 15 minutes or so are golden. Check it out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwPsp6ePcdk

[–]2MikeHaines 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Love Todd's stuff, it's rock solid. He's one of the only pickup guys putting out content who still has my full respect (many have fallen off - sad!)

[–]BrodinsOats 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I love how she pretty much spells out the thesis of OP's post:

My strategy is to offend, offend, offend—and then the ones that are still standing are cool

[–]SirByron 3 points4 points  (3 children)

This is the passion that drives a real Man. Passion cannot be compromised to a Cost Benefit Analysis. ALL IN or Nothing. Every atom of a Man's being is REQUIRED to be INVESTED.

Ironically THIS MUCH INVESTMENT is exactly what leads to the most fulfilling, long term relationships that are good for children, for a man's soul and for society. The Nuclear Family!!

TRP is now facing an existential debate from a finally correct analysis of how the mating rituals and women's evolutionary psychology evolved into a pattern that is just now being honestly decoded.

Accept it TRP - there is nothing more better than a long term relationship when both partners both feel intense desire - the man as the origin of that desire and the woman as its recipient. Yin and Yang.

That is the best type of relationship for everyone. Not a short term player lifestyle.....it is hollow. Follow the career trajectory of older PuAs and see where they all ended up (in "monogamish"...) relationships.

[–]2MikeHaines 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Thanks for the comment man, I appreciate your enthusiasm. I especially like what you said about PASSION. This is important, and it's not covered nearly enough in pickup literature.

On the other hand, I can't really get on board with you on monogamy being best for everyone. It's definitely been good to me -- however I spent a LONG time doing the player thing and not only was it not meaningless, but the journey and lessons I got from continually improving myself to hone my skills and get hotter and hotter girls allowed me to access a depth of meaning that I believe is impossible in nearly any other way.

I'm in a very happy LTR, but I definitely wouldn't recommend that as the goal for everyone. In fact, ironically, the way I got into a great LTR was by focusing entirely on being a player -- then eventually my current GF kind of slid in the backdoor and I eventually realized I was happier this way, at least at this stage of life anyway.

I dunno, I'm tired and gonna go to bed soon so I'm rambling a bit but my point is it's a complex issue. "Black and white" thinking on relationships has led many people into hell (on both sides of the debate)

[–]SirByron 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"I can't really get on board with you on monogamy being best for everyone.....but I am in an LTR"

LTR is not the goal during the process, but at the end of the process.

"Before Chi became a Zen Master, rivers were rivers and mountains were mountains.

Before Chi became a Zen Master, rivers were no longer rivers and mountains were no longer mountains.

After Chi became a Zen Master, rivers were once again - rivers and mountains were once again - mountains."

[–]greenlittleman 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There is no "better or worse", this is just different experience. If you want kids and romance, then LTR is great. If you want sex and passion - then player lifestyle. Also who said you couldn't fuck other girls while in LTR?

[–]redpill77 1 point2 points  (1 child)

What are these situations where aggressive physical game is the only way? Vacationing in Jamaica?

[–]2MikeHaines 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Extremely loud, packed nightclubs where it's literally impossible to talk to girls.

[–]FauxBostonianBrahmin 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Well written, visually appealing structure, and the novel take on what is it talked about topic.

Bravo, you better fucking right more.

[–]2MikeHaines 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks man, planning to write here more often

[–]VoidInvincible 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Mike! The the man, the myth, the legend!

[–]stylesm11 1 point2 points  (0 children)

appreciate sharing experience for us younger guys

[–]platem 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Women dont have enough value to merit any form of persistence. Approaching even once is already too much. True alphas are appraoched by females

[–]sackchat 2 points3 points  (10 children)

“ she was about 18” had to stop right there.

[–]2MikeHaines 2 points3 points  (9 children)

why? (legal drinking age in my country is 18 btw)

[–]sackchat 2 points3 points  (8 children)

What about age of consent? And about 18 doesn’t quite cut it for me.. I think if it’s borderline I’m gonna ask for some ID.

[–]2MikeHaines 7 points8 points  (2 children)

age of consent where I live (Ireland) is 17. Why you sperging out on me bro? You realize the number one porn search above anything else is "18 year old girls"? Cut out the phony morality

[–]sackchat -4 points-3 points  (1 child)

Just a little creeped out by the “about 18” line to be honest. And the number one porn search is for “milf”with “step-Mom”and “step-sister” following that. “Teen” is about 2 more down behind “Japanese” and “Mom”. This is off of last years pornhub data.

Also, didn’t realize this was in Ireland, you do you bro. Context is everything

[–]greenlittleman 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That is because most guys on pornhub are schoolboys. Schoolboys are love milfs, didn't you know? But guys older prefer teens. And there is big difference between real sex and masturbation.

[–]greenlittleman 1 point2 points  (4 children)

In my country (and large part of other developed countries) age of consent is 16, in some countries age of consent is 18, in Japanese age of consent is 14 (and this one is most adequate to our biology). So I don't really understand what do you mean. Even in USA there is no states with age of consent higher than 18 (from that I know).

[–]sackchat 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Well go into an 8th grade classroom and find yourself a nice consenting teen if that’s what is “most adequate to your biology”. What the hell does that even mean?

[–]greenlittleman 1 point2 points  (2 children)

It means that for us homo sapiens minimal age of sexual attraction is 13-14+. And yes, any normal man can have erection on hot 8th grade girl. And just 100+ years ago it was absolutely normal to marry and fuck 13-15 years old girls, no one complained about "I don't have boner on my too young wife". Age of consent has nothing to do with sexual deviations and pedo-bears, it exist because of social conditioning.

But it doesn't mean that I prefer eight graders over older girls, as well it doesn't mean that you need to fuck 45 years old woman because you can have erection on her. I myself prefer girls who are 17-21 years old. Though milfs are fine too if they are cheating with me to their husband who don't fuck them good enough.

[–]sackchat 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I’m gonna assume you’re not American just from the way you describe having erections “on” women and young girls. The average marital age 100 years ago was 25 for men and 21 for women. So maybe 100 years ago in some backwards country people were marrying and banging 13-14 year olds, but in the rest of the civilized world, people understand that at that age the body and mind are still developing and even though their sexual organs may be “adult”, they are still growing children.

I’m sure there are some, not many, fathers on this sub... and each and every single one with a daughter hearing you talk about a grown man popping a boner at a hot 8th Grader is disgusted.

[–]greenlittleman 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Wow, your knowledge of old world is really strange, maybe you don't know about slavery as well?

Yes, I'm not American, but biological facts has nothing to do with that. If you don't like 100 years ago then you can check 1000 years ago it doesn't matter. Yes, their minds still developing and this is moral reason, but not biological. Moreover a lot of kids already fuck each other at 14-15 years, I myself almost lost my virginity at 13 with a girl one year older and later for real at 15 with other 15 y.o. girl. Law protects young girls from adult men, not from young guys, you know? When I was 17 my temporarily gf was 15 as well, so your "joke" about 8th graders isn't really relevant. And your dick doesn't changes with age. Back then at 13 years old I didn't find girls younger than 12 attractive and instead masturbated at mature women. Sure, now I wouldn't date 15 y.o. girl even if this would be allowed by law (and it is - in Japan or some other countries) because she just too immature for me and I would need to teach her from beginning and there other reasons as well.

As about 8th graders and their fathers - well, those fathers would be disappointed by the fact that often their daughters already sucked some dick and fucked some boys of their age. Those are the facts. Also they would be shocked by the fact that their daughters already dreamed about a dick in them at 12-13 years, as well as boys of their age dreamed about fucking both older women and girls of their age. If some people don't know biology then it is their problem. Some guys would be shocked by the fact that PUA can fuck hot girl in 30 minutes after meeting her and this same girl would say to this other guy what she needs at least one month of relationships before having sex with him. We humans are very sexual animals - we love sex and there is nothing shameful about it. But some guys just don't know it.

[–]ioncehadsexinapool 0 points1 point  (6 children)

To tho on your testosterone part, talking about butterflies in your stomach, I used to get that feeling. And I do believe that I don’t get it anymore because I have low T.

Example: beck in the day when I would get laid, when the kissing started, I would get this intense whirlpool feeling of arousal right below my belly button as I got hard, What I imagine most guys feel, an intense desire to fuck. I also had no depression at the time.

Now, when it’s sexy time, I still get hard (duh) but no whirlpool. No....passion just nonchalant body responses. I have depression.

I’ve had this depression for 5 years, the past 3 have been me mindlessly searching the Internet for possible causes cures ect (I have anhedonia, tired all the time, no drive)

But honestly, after being this way for so long, I really do believe it’s a testosterone problem. So that’s what I’m working on now. Gym 3x a week (minimum) hella vitamin d (there’s a crazy study about vitamin d deficiency and testosterone levels) and trying to get a lot of fat and protein while keeping the carbs down, and doing nofap as much as I can.

In the past when I’ve felt a tiny bit of that whirlpool despite my depression, has been times where I was taking vitamin d and doing other testosterone increasing activities. 4 years ago when I got it checked it was 319. At 19 years old

I’m going to try keto again to help get my body fat down, I’m nervous and exited. I’ve become oddly comfortable with this misery.

[–]2MikeHaines 0 points1 point  (5 children)

Yeah man, that definitely sounds like low T (used to suffer from it myself, and like many people misdiagnosed it as "depression")

I know nothing about keto, but be careful with that -- I think I read there's evidence that low carb diets lower testosterone.

[–]ioncehadsexinapool 0 points1 point  (4 children)

What kind of protein shake? I have standard whey stuff. Do you have it for breakfast? After your workout?

[–]2MikeHaines 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Lol man, the protein shake is just one part of it. There's like a dozen little things I do for higher testosterone.

To answer your question, I take a whey isolate + oatmeal shake before my workout, plus I usually have like 4-5 eggs for lunch (or 2 chicken breast), and then a big steak (or salmon or chicken) for dinner and tons of greens and brown rice. I find my sex drive is at its highest if I also take another protein shake before bed.

I also do nofap religiously, I lift heavy weights 5 days a week and I take supplements. I won't get into it here, there are plenty of people online who teach about raising testosterone, the info isn't hard to find

[–]ioncehadsexinapool 0 points1 point  (2 children)

What types of carbs you taking in? I’ve got a bit of fat to lose

[–]2MikeHaines 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Oatmeal, sweet potato, brown rice, mainly. Yeah if you need to lose fat you'll definitely want to cut carbs to some extent.

Just a word of warning though that no carbs at all is generally viewed as not being good for T levels. Get professional advice on this one from a trainer or nutritionist about how to find a balance -- or at the very least, research it online. Best of luck

[–]ioncehadsexinapool 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks. I have a long way to go. It’s at its hardest now because my energy levels are absolute rubbish. One day at a time I guess

[–]Lightskinswag 1 points1 points [recovered]

Can't see why people are agreeing with this. If a girl isn't fucking obsessed with you from he get-go, fuck her, she isn't worth anything. Who wants to work their ass off for some hoe just for them to pity fuck you? If you have to work for past rejections to fuck some girl, you already lost.

[–]2MikeHaines 0 points1 point  (0 children)

if you're meeting hot girls who are "obsessed with you from the get-go" then you clearly don't need to read any of this advice in the first place

[–]Narcissist456 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don’t buy this. Most girls who say no right off the bat just aren’t interested. In some cases perseverance will work, but in that time you could’ve talked to ten other girls without coming off as needy...

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sorting by Controversial always makes for an entertaining read.

[–]CC-c 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I approached about 30 girls a week for some 78 consecutive weeks

I'm wondering how you could have sticked with this plan (I'm really interested because I'd like to start again with the Game).
I had zero to few positive responses (from cold approachs) so I started to lose a lot of motivation pretty soon and therefore I approached 1/3 of your girls in the double of times.
Right now, I'm not anymore in the college and I have not friends with whome go around so I need the double of motivations to go out alone in a fucking cultural environment where almost everyone go out with friends and not alone (I'm not from an anglosaxon country).
Thanks mate!
ps. your gf is fucking gorgeous! Good job;)

 

well, actually I'm wondering if I'm not in that 1% of population that can not pick up girls lol I don't think to be so fucked up but who knows!

[–]2MikeHaines 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks man. Yeah, at the beginning it's tough. You need to make APPROACHING your ONLY CRITERIA FOR SUCCESS. So if you go out and approach 10 girls, boom, that's a success. How they reacted is irrelevant -- the fact that you got yourself to approach is what matters (because this is all you can control)

  • Approach often
  • Read about game online
  • Based on what you're learning, adjust your approach until you start getting better feedback.

Also, read the sidebar, and make sure you're hitting the fundamentals: lifting weights, looking good, nofap, etc.

[–]Raeksis 1 points1 points [recovered]

I don't care how hot she is, if I need to show her I'll 'do anything to get her' or play her games, I'm out. I'll pick easily fucking a 6 over playing bullshit games for a 9 any day because that's pathetic as fuck. Have some self respect.

However... if you're talking about some girl you're completely infatuated with who is your perfect 10 (sorry but there's no such thing imo) then I see your point of view, fine.

[–]2MikeHaines 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah man, to be honest with you I suspect it's a difference in testosterone levels.

When I see a pretty girl, I HAVE to fuck. My physiology just won't let me bitch out. And so I'm willing to put effort in, I'm willing to charm her ass off, I'm willing to put up with her bullshit little tests and then flip them around on her.

But if a guy doesn't have this level of sex drive, I can easily see how he'd feel like it's not worth it.

[–]1Metalageddon 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sure I guess.

A balance is necessary, you will learn to tell the difference between a hard no and a test. They're not often the same.

As far as 'Models' goes, taking that and applying abundance passes tests in itself. Hot girl says no, you fuck her friends, no becomes yes. No problem.

And he is right about the sheer number of girls out there. No need to waste effort on anything but yourself. I ignore or turn down far more than I accept and I haven't had any issues having a consistent supply. There's always another chick.

[–]SovereignSoul76 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Much like reading that entire article, what you're proposing seems like way too much work for a "10".

[–]2MikeHaines 0 points1 point  (1 child)

what I'm saying here is universal and comes into play if you want to lay girls who are above a 7, each to their own

[–]SovereignSoul76 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It was a good post, mate. Just guess I'm realizing that if that is what it takes to get a super-hot girl, I'd rather just....not.

[–]wild_deer_man 0 points1 point  (2 children)

This sounds an amazing tactic, but as a part of a strategy, especially night game, do you go out alone and approach girls this way? Or is there more to it?

[–]2MikeHaines 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Approaching with a wingman or some of your buddies is optimal unless you absolutely have no other option, in which case solo is better than nothing (that being said, I've gotten laid a good bit from hitting up clubs solo, so it can work -- but I'd recommend against if you can avoid it)

[–]wild_deer_man 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanx, how does a wingman help in the interaction you described?

[–]Insendi 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Im a little confused, Won't approaching a girl multiple times be the opposite of abundance mentality? I texted a girl cause her friend said she was interested in me last week, I never got a response so I moved on. Is this post saying I oughta try to text her again?

[–]2MikeHaines 1 point2 points  (1 child)

This post refers to COLD APPROACH, not girls you already know.

I wrote a pretty long comment on text game here in response to a question, can't link to it because TRP deletes comments that link within reddit, but you'll find it if you look

[–]Insendi 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thought about that as soon as I submitted that comment, but thank you for clarifying it. Very good stuff right here keep it up.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

MikeHaines, two questions if you don't mind-

What kept you going so consistently?

Where do you generally approach girls?

[–]poochman 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Theory Question - Will a HB10 shit test all males approaching her equally regardless of SMV?

My assumption is the higher the SMV of guy approaching, the less harsh the tests will be he receives.

[–]In33dmon3yz 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Man I gave up fucking or trying to fuck 9,10 girls they are just too much, maintenance and drama.

[–]blackintels 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I subscribed you in YouTube, I always wanted to hear from someone who do NoFap and learn about TRP at the same time, cause the NoFap people kinda hate the idea of TRP, and some people in TRP said NoFap is just a placebo. Thanks for your hardwork mate !

[–]be-ay-be-why 0 points1 point  (0 children)

A true pimp loves a bit of chase. Its funny because my last enjoyable relationship involved me chasing a girl for over 6 weeks before I had sex with her. She was fine as wine and the sex was fucking passionate man.

[–]shermanator987 0 points1 point  (0 children)

WHY DID THIS POST GET REMOVED!?!?!?!

[–]samenrofringslikeLBJ 1 points1 points [recovered]

Top notch quality post.

The physically most attractive woman I ever dated was exactly like this, after having sex a couple of times when at a club where we were going as part of our respective friend groups, she would flirt up a guy and parade him in front of me to gauge my reaction. Luckily, women arent subtle so its easy to spot even for the uninitiated. Other tests include her female friends vetting you, ignoring texts etc and of course the solution is to just play that game of chicken and what OP posted. This behaviour didnt stop untill we were an official LTR, which was my big mistake because that entire archetype of interest-dating-relationship just sets you up for failure.

[–]2MikeHaines 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Cheers man.

Yeah some girls are definitely testier than others.

As an alpha (or at least a guy who has internalized alpha traits) you need to look at these tests as her doing you a favor -- because it's giving you an opportunity to show her that you're NOT REACTIVE, which is actually going to be the fastest way to fuck her.

[–]sirZofSwagger 0 points1 point  (0 children)

A lot of this sounds like "enter her frame" and chase her. To be fair this may be what works for you, but that hasn't worked for me and isn't a redpill idea.

[–]qwertyuiop111222 0 points1 point  (1 child)

How awkward can I make this?

Asking the right questions here, ha!!! If I had the dinero, you'd receive a gold from me!

[–]11-Eleven-11 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Your first post last year is what got me into reading the red pill so thanks.

[–]2MikeHaines 0 points1 point  (0 children)

nice one mate, take care

[–]acekilo -1 points0 points  (1 child)

Great post man. Consistency kills man. Be confident and go for what you want. There are more women than men anyways. They all can be replaced 10 times folds. They know this too!!!

[–]2MikeHaines 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks bud. Agreed, and every single year a new batch turn 18 and come onto the market ;-)

[–]maxofreddit -1 points0 points  (0 children)

In my day, this was called “playing hard to get.”

[–]DatingCoach111 -1 points0 points  (1 child)

I run my own pickup business.

Bravo. Excellent post.

[–]JamersonH -1 points0 points  (0 children)

The fact that you are blogging about red-pilling lets me know you're a beta.

Lol. Some stuff just can't be taught my man. Just stop trying to learn and try being yourself. Stop chasing women. Chase your goals and the women will come.

[–]Cardinal85 -1 points0 points  (3 children)

What about a girl you had a casual relationship with but SHE ended it but is still trying to communicate with you. She rejects you but is this a test to see how much you want her? I thought it was a fuck yes or no

[–]2MikeHaines 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Yeah, I should really have made this more clear in the post: this applies to meeting and fucking women through COLD APPROACH.

It's not necessarily as applicable to women you already have some form of history with. In this case I actually do agree that it's a "fuck yes or no" as you said

[–]EneeTtt 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Don't you think that this could also apply to women you already know ? The only difference being that it would take longer. I have a very good friend who is extremely gritty, and when he wants a girl he ends up getting her each time, but it can sometimes take him a lot of time.

He spent 4-5 months escalating a girl from my class, and it was really not an easy task since she was best friends of his previous girlfriend.

She probably rejected him 30-40 times, but he kept going for it and in the end it worked. You know, putting his arm over her shoulder etc.

I think think that the key is that he was deeply convinced of his attractiveness, and more importantly he was very subtle and playful.

With enough subtlety I think it might be doable with ANY girl : you slowly accustom her to the idea of you fucking her, then bang one day you've done it.

I would be interested to know what is your opinion on this.

[–]2MikeHaines 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hmmm, I dunno about this one man. I'm not saying it can't work (obviously your friend's example demonstrates that it did).

But that's just never been how I've rolled with women I know, so I can't really give you great feedback on this

I will say this, though.

A great attitude to have with chicks you know is "I'm a man, she's a woman. Anything can happen. Always"

And in even in my own case, I met my girlfriend on about 4 different occasions (each one months apart) and she never showed any interest in me then, but eventually we started following each other on social media, I DM'd her asking to meet up and the rest is history.

So yeah there could definitely be something to what you're saying.

[–]enkae7317 -3 points-2 points  (1 child)

Your number 17 is spot fucking on.

Some personal evidence: I approached this girl 9/10. First approach she shrugged me off completely--didn't even look at me. I was bummed. But then thought "fuck it, lets see how far I can take this."

I ended up approaching her AGAIN. This time she gave me a wierd look like I was a creep and walked off. I thought third times a charm so 15 minutes later I see her walking around and I opened hard. This time my vocal tonality and vocal projection was solid stone. She opened up amazingly. After some conversation I asked her why she ignored me the previous two times and she looked confused and told me I never talked to her before at ALL.

My mind proceeded to be blown the fuck out. Was something enlightening and amazing at the same time for me that day.

[–]2MikeHaines 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks for your comment, yeah these kinds of experiences really blew my mind too. It's good because after it happens a couple times you really just stop taking her reactions to you all that seriously and so you're rock solid no matter what she throws at you

[–]victordmor -2 points-1 points  (1 child)

As I'm experiencing a situation described by OP, I enjoyed every single word of this text. I really appreciate. Thank you.

[–]2MikeHaines 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No problem mate, thanks for getting in touch

[–]recursoinominado -3 points-2 points  (1 child)

Fucking gold right there. Exactly what I needed. I have problems with 8's, 9's and 10's, I rationalize way to much and give up easily, I will apply your advice right now (it's carnival here in Brazil, best place to game), I am committed to approach the hottest women now on(that's why I learned game in first place) , fuck this shit, enough with playing safe. I will read your blog later. Thanks, I will update after today's session.

[–]2MikeHaines 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks man, yeah let me know how it goes. I fucking envy you for getting to game at carnival in brazil, I'd say thats wild!

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points  (2 children)

Very profound, motivational post. There’s nothing better than treating a woman like a true conquest, even in minor ways like enduring taunts and embarrassments, and possessing her completely by the end of the night. Didn’t realise you were from Ireland by the way, we have the best girls in the world I reckon, even better than Scandinavia.

[–]2MikeHaines 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Cheers mate, yeah it's also a lot of fun to "hate fuck" a girl who's been an irritating little brat to you all night lol

Where in Ireland you from? I'm in Dublin, south side

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That’s also true hahah. Galway man, was born in Dublin though. Dundrum shopping centre might be a good place to practice the cold approach, good mix of pikeys in leggings and more top shelf beures lol

[–]TheRealJesusChristus -4 points-3 points  (1 child)

This has WAAAAAAAAAY to little upvotes. It needs more. Every man should have read this at least once. And your blogs are the best.

Tbh i think your ideas are not exactly the same as trp ideas (regarding women, trp is a bit more general than your blog). But i am sure your ideas are better. I read here a lot about people saying that a healthy relationship of a man with a woman is when he is dating several women and she is his personal sex slave.

Your idea on the other hand allow for what men really want (and should want): a girlfriend and in the end a wife. She doesnt cheat, she does serve him and he is dominant. But neither is a sex slave and he is not dating other women while being in the relationship. When she missbehaves (like she cheats) anyway then he just drops her out of selfrespect and due to him being a man (not a human with a penis but no balls) and finds at least 1 other girl in the same day to fuck if not many.

Human are made for ltr (not for ever, but like at least a few months to a few years. And the last ltr for the rest of the life of whoever dies first. Like from your end 30s+) and not for one night stands (even though they area good filler for between ltrs). This is the true human nature and that is basically what your ideas allow opposed to the avarages trp ideas of avoiding „oneitis“.

But in the end its only my opinion, feel free to tell me what you think (@reader, but also Op if he wants). Dont just downvote if you arent agreeing, bc i wont learn much from downvotes. I learn from actual information.

[–]gorkaarve -2 points-1 points  (3 children)

Im 25 and a still dont know what a pussy is

[–]2MikeHaines 5 points6 points  (2 children)

Ignore this post in that case, it will be too advanced. Focus on the basics. Read the sidebar, lift weights, approach.

[–]gorkaarve -2 points-1 points  (1 child)

Thank you for the answer, Im kind of lost

[–]2MikeHaines 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Np man, just focus on basic stuff, really small wins. Start approaching women on a regular basis. Make approaching your only criteria for success.

In other words, you go to a bar, you approach 10 girls, they all reject you. SUCCESS. You approached 10 girls. This is how you have to view it. There's no rejection, only results.

Eventually as you take more and more action, your brain will automatically stop doing things that don't work, and focus on the things that do.

Take continuous imperfect action. Focus on the small wins -- this will keep you motivated. And learn from good sources online.

All the information is out there. You just need to start taking action.

[–]Fedor_Gavnyukov -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

you people actually get rejected like the op describes? damn

[–]Minhha0510 -2 points-1 points  (1 child)

Sick post mate. I’m going to test your theory. I’m thinking how can you word your post better. As I can see a thin line between persisting like an alpha male and orbiting around the girl like a beta blue pill here.

Probably the main thing here, like you suggested: have a strong mindset and communicating style like an alpha male before trying this out. And by that, be outcome dependent. This 10 certainly will not be your last 10!

[–]2MikeHaines 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks man. Yeah I definitely could have worded this better so as not to be misinterpreted, but you live and learn. The negative comments will allow me to communicate these ideas more clearly in future

As far as the difference between persisting as an alpha and being an orbiter, it's really a matter of how good your game is generally -- e.g. is your posture good?, is your eye contact good?, are you able to make women aroused using your body language and eye contact alone?, do you tease girls?, do you know how to make girls emotionally react to you?

If the answer to any of these questions is no, then you'll be an orbiter. If it's yes then you can persist all you want and it will never look needy

[–]Meba_ 1 points1 points [recovered]

Ok, so I have a question that has been bother me for a while. I'm a high value man, enough value that I have girls approach me. Getting laid is not an issue. My problem is this - I know when girls want me to approach them, and I also know that some of these girls have boyfriends (hypergamy?); I've developed mental health issues because of this. My question is this - to another man who has slept with a lot of women, what's the goal here? Is there such thing as love? What am I looking for in a women - looks or personality? Or does it even matter? "Fuck bitches they all alike" - ASAP Ferg. Is this true? Like, if Leonardo Dicaprio came along, you think your girl would stay faithful? Man, I wish I never swallowed the pill - shit has fucked me up.

[–]2MikeHaines 0 points1 point  (1 child)

You need to get more life experience

[–]throwlaca -1 points0 points  (1 child)

Good post, if a little rapey. Nowadays you will get the police called on you after the second NO. And I know because it has happened to me.

[–]2MikeHaines 0 points1 point  (0 children)

THE TITLE IS HYPERBOLE -- NOT MEANT TO BE TAKEN LITERALLY

[–]VoidInvincible -1 points0 points  (1 child)

Question, doesn't it kind of hurt the self esteem to realize that if you were the hottest guy ever, she wouldn't reject you at all? Doesn't it kind of suck that for average guys you have to go through all this? It's kind of draining, and insulting to the self esteem.

Or, is this flawed? Would she reject you no matter how good you looked? And this is simply a woman's way of testing you?

[–]2MikeHaines 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Loser mentality. Don't focus on what she'd do with other guys. Their life is none of your concern.

And yes, to answer your question, I know at least one natural alpha "hot" guy closely, and I've seen him get eviscerated by girls. You'd be amazed at how bad the reactions he sometimes gets are, despite looking like Don Draper

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