Red Pill TheoryBeing controlling doesn't work (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by [deleted]

I've tried it all, I've tried every tactic of being controlling. It doesn't work, it's a pure waste of your time. Don't become how I used to be, a controlling bitch.

If a woman wants to cheat, she will.

If a woman wants to talk to another man, she will.

If a woman wants to do whatever the fuck, she will.

I've been the controlling guy, I've been the crazy guy, I've been the nice guy, I've even been the nice controlling guy (example: I'd appreciate if you just don't talk to other guys).

It just doesn't fucking work, I've obsessed over how to make my woman loyal, do exactly as I say, not talk to anybody, etc. I was making up imaginary interactions of her talking with guys, I was hamstering hard as fuck.

I've gotten anxiety, I've gotten gut feelings (trust them), I've became obsessed and became crazed. Becoming too invested into someone, is like a disease; you let yourself go and put your all, into one person; it's not worth it.

Things will change, when you stop giving a fuck,

Things will change, when you work to become the best version of yourself.

Women will change towards you, for the better.

But being controlling isn't the way, nothing will change in her behavior.

One of my old plates (I'm tired of her and I'm occupied with someone else) was talking about how her boyfriend said "If you talk to a guy, I will break his fucking jaw; I'll rip that shit off."

Meanwhile we were at a little get-together and she wanted me to fuck her the whole time. Also, she just told me she cheated and is hooking up with another guy in about a couple weeks.

She was also telling her friend how, I have "great dick" and was all excited when she thought I was going to fuck her.

A co-worker at my job also likes to talk to me and says how her bf would be so angry and threatens her not to talk to any guys.

The controlling shit doesn't work, I was the controlling guy; take it from me, it's a complete waste of time. If you don't like what a woman is doing, play fair game and withdraw attention; or just hard next her.

Threat's don't work, you're making yourself look stupid. Think of how your acting in third person perspective.

[–]3whatsthisgarg 456 points457 points  (42 children)

This is possibly the simplest and most clear thing in all of TRP. If she is doing shit or even tempted to do shit you don't want her to do, and it is abundantly clear that she knows that you don't want her to do (and yes, she knows), she gets:

  1. The absence of your attention and good graces. And if that doesn't stop the bad behavior,

  2. The absence of you.

It's really that simple. You sure as fuck don't talk about it.

[–][deleted] 84 points85 points  (10 children)

Exactly, it's not worth getting stressed out over shit you can't control.

[–]3whatsthisgarg 58 points59 points  (6 children)

Exactly, it's not worth getting stressed out over shit you can't control.

That's actually beside the point. This isn't about reducing stress. This is about, as /u/wantonton said, influencing without controlling.

Perhaps you're young. You will find doing what I recommend is a way to influence her and stop bad behavior. Or getting her out of your life entirely. Either way is good.

It's amazing how simple and effective it is.

I want to add that this works at any level of a relationship, even in a many year LTR.

[–]ThreeTierTiger 1 points1 points [recovered]

This is a hard lesson to learn, particularly because you're told (and rightly so) that withdrawing attention is being passive aggressive and petty.

I've been in relationships where my impulse was to withdraw attention and just ignore a woman who was being disrespectful, but I forced myself to discuss my feelings and concerns because it seemed more mature. But ultimately discussing feelings either makes you look A) controlling or B) pathetic and, more often than not, a profoundly unattractive mix of the two. You'll get immediate lip service as appreciation for your honesty and willingness to communicate, but she'll keep doing what she wants to do and will feel ever more justified in doing it BECAUSE you've articulated a number of qualities she'll never be attracted to.

[–]Kalidane 11 points12 points  (0 children)

But it isn't passive aggressive.

I have 24 hours in a day. I'll spent them doing enjoyable things. We all do something like this. We aren't obliged to anyone.

[–]Endorsed ContributorAuvergnat 11 points12 points  (2 children)

influencing without controlling

Great way to express it.

Best example of this in action is the redpill-famous story of "the long hard road, out of hell".

[–]3whatsthisgarg 15 points16 points  (1 child)

I remember that post, from the good ole days.

Ignored my wife. Worked on myself. That fixed my marriage.

Yep. I had a similar experience, much less painful and humiliating thank god, but I know first hand it is that simple. The 180 from her was astoundingly fast and completely unexpected. That was way before TRP obviously. Now that I know the principles, I can understand it, and therefore advocate it.

I've written about it several times, guys ITT are wanting to see it again, so I might write it up fresh. It's a fundamental lesson.

[–]deville05 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Maybe that's how women make you a better man. By putting you in a position of pain where you have a choice to make the kind of change that makes you better. Weak people don't do that and get weeded put. Only the strong survive

[–]vhemtmgtow 3 points4 points  (0 children)

The problem with trying to control women is that she becomes your responsibility. You need to manage her and her tantrums and outbursts. You're like a nanny. At least real nannies are compensated. Most women act like children and have beta providers throw money at them.

[–]vhemtmgtow 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Controlling women is a waste of energy. Women love being controlled because then they have no accountability. They just do what you say and if things don't go right they will go crazy on you and blame you, and if you don't like it they will just divorce rape you and take all your money. Don't try to control. Aim for indifference instead.

[–]AwakenedSovereign 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Aim for indifference instead.

Indifference is boring and a pale comparison to genuine frame.

Instead aim for Amused Mastery.

[–]neveragoodtime 3 points4 points  (0 children)

You can only control one thing, if you stay or if you go. Since Eve, women have wanted what they can’t have. Don’t tell her what she can’t do, this will just make her want it more. Be what she wants, but can’t have.

[–]hammerhearth 17 points18 points  (0 children)

You can apply this logic to anything in life, really: family, work, friends.

The one who is willing to walk away has all the power

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (10 children)

Fuck I wish I could figure out a version of this with the baby mamma!!! Don't have kids boys

[–]3whatsthisgarg 9 points10 points  (8 children)

Fuck I wish I could figure out a version of this with the baby mamma

Really? I did it. You want me to write it up? It's amazingly simple and effective.

[–]lipidsly 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Please do

[–]Talisman64 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Write it up Bro Sure a lot of guys can make use of it

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (3 children)

Yeah man...Ive been tring to get this bitch to stop playing games for too damn long. The main problem is the law doesnt let men play the dread card when you are ordered to pay her no matter what. And when something happens that I don't like whith my kid, my hands are legally tied!!! Case in point, my kid told me that her new boyfriend hit him. If I went over and beat the shit out of him, id liose any chance for custody. If I brought it to court, the judge would be unlikely to take a 4 yo seriously. So I have no choice but to allow her to do whatever the fuck she wants.

[–]3whatsthisgarg 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Yeah man...Ive been tring to get this bitch to stop playing games for too damn long. The main problem is the law

You're fucked, sorry about that. You have no leverage in that situation.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Yup! I knew that! HOWEVER--I have been able to mind fuck the shit out of her to make her belive she has less power than she does, which has allowed me to bend the law in my favor; at least a bit. So, any other ideas for dealing with baby mama would only serve me and my son better than nothing at all! Hahaha, that made me smile. You're fucked. ;). Not as bad as most!

[–]3whatsthisgarg 1 point2 points  (0 children)

any other ideas

Laws of Power, maybe? idk, I haven't had to deal with a serious adversary in decades. Good luck.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Verbal Intercourse is Optional

The 12 Levels of Dread: "The Rules" for any Long Term Relationship

Put those post titles into the Google. Read. Including the comments. For LTR/married folk.

[–]chrisname 5 points6 points  (1 child)

How do you do that without coming across sulky? If someone just stopped talking to me and refused to say why, I would think they were being childish and laugh at them. How does this work for married/cohabiting men as well?

[–]randomthrowaway69420 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It does not work (easily) in marriage/cohabitation. LTR's are TRP on hard mode.

With that said, it can work with the right frame. Its not like you just stop talking to someone; you let them know through your actions that you do not need their behavior. Don't sulk; your internal state is not affected by her poor behavior. Simply go take your awesomeness somewhere it else, perhaps somewhere it will be more appreciated.

[–]beginner_ 5 points6 points  (3 children)

It's really that simple. You sure as fuck don't talk about it.

For plates yeah. Just move on.

for an LTR I disagree. Not talking about it is a hidden contract. You can say it exactly once that it is inappropriate to go to clubs and get drunk (or whatever). You can also point-out the reverse scenario. Like she goes to diner alone with an old male friend. What would you think if I did that?

The reaction to this talk will give you most of the information you need on how to proceed.

[–]3whatsthisgarg 1 point2 points  (2 children)

for an LTR I disagree. Not talking about it is a hidden contract.

I've been doing this with the same woman for more than 20 years. It's not covert contracts at all, it's "I've got better shit to do than hang out with you if you're going to be a bitch." (not saying that with words, but with actions, IE, not hanging out with her) It hasn't gotten to that extreme in a long, long time.

Now it's more like "If you're going to lick your fingers I'm going to look at you like you are disgusting." (again, not talking, just looking) She doesn't want me to think she's disgusting, so she stops.

It's really simple, and really effective.

You can say it exactly once that it is inappropriate to go to clubs and get drunk (or whatever). You can also point-out the reverse scenario. Like she goes to diner alone with an old male friend.

That shit is obviously a boundary that needs absolutely NO explanation. You don't have to say it even once. You just have to be a man.

[–]beginner_ 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Good luck trying that with women in their early 20ties. They really seem to not know what is appropriate without them being told because no one ever did.

[–]3whatsthisgarg 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Good luck trying that with women in their early 20ties. They really seem to not know what is appropriate without them being told because no one ever did.

jesus christ you guys must be hanging with some slags. I know a LOT, well actually I know dozens of real ... I personally know plenty of a few young women who aren't garbage total garbage. They are out there. Somewhere. And they probably look good if the light is just so.

No but seriously, you're on the right track with this:

The reaction to this talk will give you most of the information you need on how to proceed.

BUT, you can really figure out whether she cares about your values concerning going out and getting drunk or dinners with exes without talking about it.

If she does that shit, one strike and she is out. But I'm sure you knew that already.

[–]TheReformist94 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Problem is,she has options,so the absence of you won't make a difference. Even if you're high smv. Women have unlimited options,for free, with no consequence.and there's nothing you can do about it.

[–]ElijahBurningWoods 1 point2 points  (3 children)

Tl;dr absence + don't adress it?

[–]ElijahBurningWoods 3 points4 points  (2 children)

What if she asks "what have i've done???"?

[–]AllgBeamtenrecht 1 point2 points  (1 child)

that's the hardest part. especially when she doesn't let you off the hook with your short "nothing." answer. still looking for a solution here

[–]h4nkz 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Is there a difference between withdrawing attention and ignoring her?

[–]DelightLama 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Regarding your first point, could you elaborate when the eventual " what's wrong? Are you upset?" Is asked? Are you supposed to tell her what's bothering you or just deflect and go on with your shit

[–]3whatsthisgarg 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Regarding your first point, could you elaborate when the eventual " what's wrong? Are you upset?" Is asked? Are you supposed to tell her what's bothering you or just deflect and go on with your shit

When I first posted this and this, a lot of bloopers thought it was passive aggressive, and pouty and sulky. Maybe because a lot of bloopers are very familiar with being passive aggressive, and pouty and sulky. No, it is actively aggressive, and repulsed and disgusted by her bad behavior.

Bottom line is, just have something better to do than hang out with her. If she brings it up, you can decide for yourself whether to address it.

this is for /u/ElijahBurningWoods /u/AllgBeamtenrecht /u/chrisname /u/lipidsly /u/Talisman64 as well; check out those links guys, not sure I have the steam to re-write it up fresh just now.

[–]DudeWtfusayin 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Could you clarify what you mean by shit? Just an example.

[–]3whatsthisgarg 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Could you clarify what you mean by shit? Just an example.

Do you mean like this?

[–]Buddhist_Panda 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Does his go for men too? For example, if a friend has changed how they treat you and you don’t like it. Do you retract attention and care? Or do you bring it up?

[–]3whatsthisgarg 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Does his go for men too? For example, if a friend has changed how they treat you and you don’t like it. Do you retract attention and care? Or do you bring it up?

Absolutely not. With a male friend, if he does something disrespectful you can simply say "Fuck you. Pull your head out of your ass."

Of course, I have said shit like that to women, and it actually works pretty well, too. But the context is completely different.

[–]jackandjill22 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I just implied dread through warnings & if she disrespected me somehow & thought she was being slick I'd pull the trigger.

[–][deleted] 121 points122 points  (5 children)

Being controlling is the exact opposite of being alpha in my book. If you are the prize and you have abundance mentality, the woman should get one warning, then you move on, not whine and cry and act like your words should make her behave the way you expect.

[–]no92 21 points22 points  (0 children)

Exactly. If you are the prize she will do everything in her power not to lose you.

If you're seeing signs that you should control her the odds are you've already lost.

I find it telling when people overstate the need to soft next. If you're doing this and that just to get her to play by the rules she probably doesn't care, and you probably don't feel like you can easily away at the drop of a hat.

[–]Andgelyo 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Following through is even better. A lot of guys will give warnings and then never act on giving consequences. They’ll repeatedly get fisted up the ass, and then after their girlfriends are done, the girls leave them. Gotta be a man of your word to show them you’re not fucking around.

[–]jackandjill22 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's pretty much exactly what I just said before seeing this comment.

[–]midnightrequest -2 points-1 points  (1 child)

What's beta isn't attempting to control your woman - if you're the captain of the ship you must retain some control of her otherwise it's all going to go to shit. What's beta is to attempt to control your woman when you don't have any leverage whatsoever - be it marriage (you basically leave yourself vulnerable in the face of law), lack of money, looks or status (she has no incentive to do your bidding). So basically the same logic with threats - if you can back it up, do it, but if you make a bluff and get called out on it you'll just come out weak. If you have the means to control a woman, do it, it's not "beta" at all. But you don't get to be a controlling asshole if you can't offer the right value or incentives for it. It's beta only when you attempt to do it and fail.

[–]MisterRoid 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think you make a good point. I was unhappy with the sex not being frequent enough in my relationship. I did say that I would have sex with others unless she satisfied me, but for a long time I didn't. It wasn't until I actually fucked another girl raw that she got her act together. Basically I told her that it's her fault and to keep her excuses to herself when she tried to turn it around and say that we didn't have sex because I worked too much. I also got her to accept that the relationship will no longer be monogamous on my part, and when she tried to press me into using condoms with either her or other girls I flat-out refused and got her to accept that it won't happen (she will simply have to risk STDs if she wants to keep me).

Now I actually have to turn down meeting her because I want more time for myself, and she also wants to get pregnant and give me children. I'm encouraging her to go off birth control since I want kids, but I have to make her accept that we won't live together and that she will have to do most of the work with the child(ren). Naturally I will provide for her and the child(ren) after DNA testing to make sure it's my offspring, though.

[–]binarynightmare 62 points63 points  (3 children)

To a certain extent, people like to feel 'lucky' about what they have. Whether it's there one of a kind house, their special edition car, or the person they're dating. Being overtly controlling basically screams "You're not the lucky one, I am!".

It also is the best way to say I don't have any better prospects.

And yes, if a girl wants to cheat, she will find a way in 2018. This isn't the 1950's - she has her own car, probably her own place, hoe friends with an alibi, a cell phone that can erase messages, etc. There is however an art in being able to recognize when it's happening.

[–]heartbroken_nerd 46 points47 points  (0 children)

If you can't clearly see the sucker, you're the sucker.

[–][deleted] 47 points48 points  (0 children)

The only thing you can control is yourself.

You'd be surprised, though, at how much influence doing that well will give you.

[–]CutLiver 1 points1 points [recovered]

Controlling behavior is born from a scarcity mindset. There is absolutely no reason to control a woman, unless you're afraid you're going to lose her to another man. Once you gain self-confidence and truly believe that you're a catch, those thoughts will go away. Sure, your girl might flirt with other guys, or even cheat on you. But that's an indication of her shortcomings, not yours. It's absolutely pointless to try to control a woman you're in a relationship with. The only thing it will do is cause you stress and make her resent you.

[–]Sly21C 16 points17 points  (7 children)

"It makes me feel good to see how desirable she is to other guys and know that at the end of the night, she's coming home with me".

I'm not sure how I feel about that statement. What if she does a girls night out, hooks up with a guy, goes to his place, gets eaten up, and then comes back home to you? Confidence is one thing, but how do you deal with the possibility that she might screw someone else quickly without you knowing?

[–]majaka1234 27 points28 points  (5 children)

She's not yours, it's only your turn.

[–]TheReformist94 12 points13 points  (4 children)

Oh shut up with this cuck mantra

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What makes that a "cuck mantra"?

[–]majaka1234 0 points1 point  (2 children)

K bro, go and chase her and get all butthurt and tell her off and see how that works out for you.

I'm waiting for the detailed Field Report when you find out she changed absolutely nothing, she just got better at hiding it from you :)

[–]TheReformist94 -1 points0 points  (1 child)

Who says I'm not hiding it from her?

[–]majaka1234 4 points5 points  (0 children)

You've got it all figured out mate.

24 years old and you've got the world at your fingertips because you're the guy with all the answers. Very envious!

[–]Ludakrit 31 points32 points  (3 children)

It does if you keep her in a dungeon.

[–]Luckylancer96 17 points18 points  (1 child)

How often should my friend give his gf food?

[–]improvising1 16 points17 points  (0 children)

never bro, that's beta duh

[–]DatingCoach111 17 points18 points  (1 child)

Feminine energy is free roaming and chaotic, and chooses to anchor down via masculine energy that provides order and structure.

The keyword here is choice, however.

Though not 100%, masculine love is more unconditional. It loves more freely than feminine energy. With less conditions, all masculine energy can do is allow a woman to come to him like a moth drawn to a flame.

In a practical scenario, men display personality, allow a woman be captured by it, then draw her in. Notice how none of this is controlling.

She is choosing to be with man. Not forced.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I see you been listening to and reading Jordan Peterson, very nice.

[–]Endorsed Contributorex_addict_bro 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I stopped asking bitches the so-called "difficult" questions about 1.5 yrs ago, never felt happier.

I assume they fuck other men or at least flirt with them, keep "plan B" or I am theirs "plan B" or C, or Z, or whatever...


God, give me grace to accept with serenity the things that cannot be changed,

Courage to change the things which should be changed,

and the Wisdom to distinguish the one from the other.

Steven Chandler calls this not the "serenity prayer" but "courage prayer". For me, the last part is most important.

I can control myself so I can optimise my sexual strategy (my life, my money, my time) up to the max.

Controlling another human being is not optimising my sexual strategy.

Also, it never works.

[–]0attr 7 points8 points  (6 children)

I agree with you. These are good realizations to have.

Meanwhile we were at a little get-together and she wanted me to fuck her the whole time. Also, she just told me she cheated and is hooking up with another guy in about a couple weeks.

She was also telling her friend how, I have "great dick" and was all excited when she thought I was going to fuck her.

A co-worker at my job also likes to talk to me and says how her bf would be so angry and threatens her not to talk to any guys.

It sounds like you are connecting with low quality women, and your primary means of connecting is sexual. Its better to go for high quality and a connection that is only partly sexual.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (2 children)

I realized that just awhile ago, I've stopped communication with the women I mentioned here. I don't find these type of women fun anymore; the one at the job is alright, but the other is just a slut with major issues.

[–]0attr 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Good to hear. I think a lot of the anxiety you express in the post about being able to rely on a woman to be there for you, can be accomplished by choosing more emotionally stable partners. People who are emotionally mature and stable don't wildly fluctuate and they will want to build something that can last for years.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I don't have anxiety anymore, I've delt with this issue months ago. I just felt like I should share on this subreddit.

Now before, I had major anxiety which lead me to be controlling. But for awhile now, I can be around sluts and experience no anxiety.

[–]Senior Endorsed Contributormax_peenor 0 points1 point  (2 children)

high quality

If you hunt unicorns, all you end up with is a horn up your ass.

If you want to differentiate women based on actual metrics, that might be useful. For instance, if you enjoy fucking and chucking 1000 cock stare slags (three digit n-count), but would only marry a virgin (0 n-count), that's a measurable and actionable metric. Well, if you could actually measure it accurately, which is a huge challenge, but that's a topic for a different day. The point is you need to be specific and real or you'll end up with something that isn't what you thought it was.

And, of course, never marry. That was just an illustration.

[–]0attr -1 points0 points  (1 child)

If you hunt unicorns, all you end up with is a horn up your ass.

I can meet and recognize quality women. I don't think unicorn is a helpful concept. Lots of people are loveable, won't betray you, and are worth spending time with. Whether you specifically want to be partnered with someone is maybe a different question, but quality women are everywhere (in my world).

The point is you need to be specific and real or you'll end up with something that isn't what you thought it was.

You are going to have to work for years to get over the psychological difficulties that made you write the above para ('chucking 1000 cock stare slags').

We can trade theories and spin yarns, but the God's honest truth is, you've got a lot of work to do. Even just to achieve a baseline of basic normalcy. Investigate yourself, get curious.

[–]Senior Endorsed Contributormax_peenor 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I can meet and recognize quality women

By what measure? You keep describing amorphous creatures to me--like unicorns.

psychological difficulties

Oh, save me the edge lording bullshit. We write these terms to ferret out people that can't get past rhetoric and actually think about what is being said. They are meant to trigger and offend those that embrace offense. Plus I'm not going to spend the time typing "women that have had so much easy sex with so many different people that they no longer feel any excitement in doing it any more." That's too wordy.

you've got a lot of work to do.

Trust me, you don't want to make this about me.

[–]Senior ContributorNightwingTRP 30 points31 points  (1 child)

Think of how your acting in third person perspective.

First things first. Go away and learn the difference between knowing your shit and knowing you're shit. At the moment you are the latter.

A quick distinction needs to be made here. Ordering your bitch around is not the same as being controlling. When a chick talks about being controlling, what she means is that a weak man is attempting to give her orders or guidance. She sees this as being controlled because she does not respect the man. Exact same words coming from an alpha and suddenly he's providing advice, guidance, helping her, leading the two of them etc etc. Refer to my piece Commanding 101 for further information.

The essential statements of this piece are true and are a good warning to men who wish to look at having an LTR. If you wish to enter an LTR, just know that the girl you're with and you've invested so much time and emotion into... you care so much about her and you're going to watch her. And if she decides she's going to hop on another guy's cock, you're likely to watch that happen too because you can't directly stop it and survive. Everything about that would scream low value. The scarcity, the losing out in competition, the emotional weakness/lack of self control.

When you take an overview of the excellent guide issued by u/HumanSockPuppet on how to manage your bitches, you will note that it is extremely reactive. The adaptive nature of it needs to be, otherwise it wouldn't be so useful. The same goes for managing an LTR and why you will be stuck in the sort of half-way-house of being in control but unable to control her. The best you've got is trust but verify. Trust because there's little point in not behaving like you trust her, the outcomes are all negative. Verify because you don't want to trust blindly and become a literal cuck. (You must have seen the examples on here of women behaving in the most evil of fashions towards men they claim to "love" and feeling zero guilt for it.) Vetting is the only way to avoid these problems and if you vet wrong... prepare to suffer some humiliation. You deserve it and if you're truly red pilled, you will know that you deserve it.

Don't control, learn to lead, go read the guides.

[–]freedominlight2 4 points5 points  (1 child)

You don’t overtly control them. You make a frame you like with expectations and boundaries and just enforce that from the start. It’s harder to change the rules mid relationship, which is what a lot of guys try doing after taking the red pill. If you start on the right foot you just gotta maintain it.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I forgot to mention enforce boundaries, but that's where I was getting at. It is harder to change rules in mid relationship, but possible. I did it.

[–]JamesLucrative 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Assertive=/=Controlling. Even too often in the business world this mistake costs people

Assertive just means look, this is what I want. If you cannot provide me that than fuckoff. It also is an intolerance to BEING controlled.

Women are controlling and by their nature presume controlling means assertive. Men are controlling when they are downtrodden and desperate. It's a survival mechanism and for women it just never turns off.

But controlling quickly leads to contempt or incompetence. You're either gonna be surrounded by asskissers who do everything sloppily just good enough to appease you or people waiting to stab you in the back. Look at Reddit mods. They turn on eachother on a fucking dime. But none of them stop to think hey maybe we shouldn't be psychopaths and pedoes who ban everybody

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Love is about acceptance

If you can accept their nature, Understand AWALT etc. You can enjoy your turn and have other options. Scarcity will bring in fear to a BP man, who will then seek to control and segregate or even abuse.

[–]punchy-peaches 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Read up on the stoics. Stoics don’t give a shit about anything, short version. Spock was a stoic.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

After my controlling days were coming to an end, I looked into it; a great change in my life.

[–]Dantizzleee 3 points4 points  (1 child)

I agree with all this shit. In the end they flip it on you and all of a sudden your the crazy as fuck dude. Gives them an excuse in their eyes to fuck around and leave in the end. Best thing I ever did was just say fuck it.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

They always flip it Lmao, and same with me; Stop caring, changed my mindset, never been better.

[–]scootypebbles 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Walk with your damn head high the way a pack leader does. Give the warning and leave if needed. Send the alpha signals with your action and not your words. She will respond with loyalty when her body subconsciously recognizes she walks in the presence of a true man.

[–]turtlemonkeigh 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Best fucking thing I learned from TRP. I put it this way, if she wants to chest on me she will, I will find out, and I will move to the next girl. After realizing this and getting into a relationship and testing this philosophy out, I've never been happier, and a girl has never been more attached to me than this one. The trick, is to actually believe it, have the balls to do it if it happens. If you believe it and are about your shit, the girl will feel it. Just my two cents from an in progress learner.

[–]Endorsed ContributorWoujo 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Why would you want to be controlling?

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Well guys get possessive over woman, as I once was. Maybe it's just the new wave of how men are growing up.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You speak of artless, in-the-open controlling pressures.

Greene's books on the laws of power (and seduction: he has 2 books), both much recommended around here, deal with effective control (cunning, indirect, aimed at the controlled's subconscious), the only type that, to a degree, works. And trust me, that one works.

[–]Endorsed Contributormonsieurhire2 2 points3 points  (0 children)

On the other hand, being permissive doesn't work either. If you are too permissive, she can then just keep pushing the boundaries of what is allowed. You have to have some boundaries. If she asks you if she can get railed by 10 guys are you really going to say, "Yeah, sure whatever." or walk away and "withdraw attention?" And are you really going to just dump her on the spot like a stone cold alpha? Or are you going to go through a period of disbelief, a period of "Wait, what?" Now, this is an obvious extreme case. Many guys would, in fact, just walk away, or not even take it seriously, and just laugh it off. But if it were something more insidious, then it becomes less clear. And women have ZERO problem trying to control men. They'll tell you that you can't stay out late, or that you have to spend time with them when it's good for them.

No tactic or strategy works forever because people change, adapt, and evolve. For instance, you could dread game your SO, and she could still leave you, but it would play out differently, meaning, instead of recognizing your value and repenting, she could instead think that you are getting ready to leave her or cheat on her, and so she'll then run off and cheat "preemptively" so she can one-up you, and then your relationship is toast because you are stuck between either leaving her or capitulating.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I don't comment as a rule. This is the truth. Thank you for putting my thoughts into words.

[–]remember_that_girl 1 points1 points [recovered]

Is that really a hard rule? Early in my LTR, she wanted to meet another guy for dinner who was courting her. I told her straight away that she won't go out alone with guys who are obviously into her, and that it doesn't need further explanation.

That was controlling, but that worked. And no, she's not doing it secretly.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You said it once, and you didn't threaten her or came off as scared to lose her. She obviously sees you as high value.

[–]Witch-Doctor 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Fuck this hits way too close too home. How old are you man? I’m 28 and I actually still struggle with this type of stuff. I had a really fucked up relationship as a teenager and I’ve found it so hard to break out of and to trust and not be insecure. Any words of wisdom for me from anyone? I have no problem picking up girls at all, but I’ll always end up fucking it up because I get too attached and emotionally involved, I let my guard down and say shit I shouldn’t and end up pushing them away. At the start they are usually obsessed with me. I totally lost this hot as fuck girl I was seeing because of my shit behaviour. I’m fully in a rut right now and i don’t know where to get good advice. I go to the gym, eat healthy and meditate also. Cheers in advance!

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I'm 18, My advice would be look into Stoicism, and watch YouTube videos that talk about self betterment. Learn to love yourself, that's your problem; you don't love yourself.

Hell, i don't love myself; but it's best if you learn how to. Accept yourself and accept your insecurities. Better yourself and achieve goals and you'll become happier. Learn to think before you speak and slow down when you talk.

I used to have your issue as well, the problem is your talking in a comfortable state and releasing your weaknesses. Stop. Don't show your weaknesses, only release them when your fully alone. Fake it till you make it, if you have to. Only show people the good in you, even be a little cocky to play the role and eventually it'll get natural. People will think your great, different, happy, funny, open up to you; when you learn to keep your weaknesses to yourself.

I think you should look up topics on this subreddit, it'll help you out. This subreddit has great advise, just look up your problem on the search bar and you'll find some good reads.

You can enjoy women and get attached, but learn to hold it in; eventually you'll build calices.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Will you fell better if you restrain yourself from getting as emotionally involved as you naturally would, and from letting your guard down as you naturally desire to, and they don't go away?

Acting against you nature will damage your well-being. Will it more or less than having them turn their back on you and leave? You are to choose between two kinds of pains, not between a wrong and a pristine, joyful roads.

See which fits you best, but every lunch has its price.

[–]420KUSHBUSH 3 points4 points  (2 children)

It just doesn't fucking work, I've obsessed over how to make my woman loyal, do exactly as I say, not talk to anybody, etc.

Bruh what

For the bigger picture though, being assertive and aggressive (in the sexual context) is the kind of controlling that works. If you try and limit what she does it comes off as you being insecure and too invested. We all know how that ends up

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I had major issues before with women and major issues with myself. But Of course being sexually controlling works, but that's a different kind of controlling and different topic.

[–]420KUSHBUSH 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ah I see what you mean now

[–]BornShook 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Don't ask for her to do or not do anything that is out of your control. Don't even ask her if shes talking to other guys. Just assume she is and dgaf. If shes into you and youve cracked her frame, she will probably try to hide the fact that she talks to other guys. Whatever. Give her good enough sex and you will be a top priority.

[–]S-Blaze 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It's fear and insecurity what you're hinting is that she could find something better and that your bond isn't special. Think of all the romances and movies plots that we all like to some level, the heroes or protagonists never confine their women they are just themselves, magnetic and awesome. It's always the shitty bad guys that does and it always drive the women away of course.

[–]omega_dawg93 2 points3 points  (0 children)

i have a simple saying to women: just be yourself. just be the person you are... i don't judge.

if you wanna be a gf or wife then you will act like one... all without me attempting to control your behavior.

if you wanna be a slut, just be one. again, no judgment from me. i will just treat you as the slut you are... or choose not to.

girls usually fall right in line when you show you really don't care what they do. but you let them know that you observe their behavior.

[–]scamper_22 1 point2 points  (1 child)

here's how i see it.

there's basically 3 ways to get what you want in a relationship.

  1. cooperation. two people communicate openly and honestly trying to make sure they both get a good deal. its hard to find a person for this. much less a female.

  2. manipulation. this is traditionally a womens weapon.

  3. physical. this is traditionally a mans weapon.

3 is basically outlawed in the west. think of all the force other people use. honor killings, hitting wife. so you're left in general with 1 or 2. i havent met a women who wants to play 1. even the best of them wouldn't do it.

so you're left with manipulation. which you can try but women are simply better at it and feel no remorse using it or they do it subconsciously.

society has removed the male weapon , which has left women with the upperhand and they know it. the best you can do is remove yourself from the relationship if its not to your satisfaction because you can't make her act right.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

This is excellent. When I called manipulation "psychological violence", some far-sighted, enlightened sage on one of these comments sections contended that "there is no psychological violence, violence is only physical," lol.

The simple fact is, at the present stage of evolution, a wide majority of humans recoil from physical violence. But violence is still the point (since power is, and organisms with different genes are set to battle versus one another in the theatre of natural selection). So what you have is: the kind of violence employed by outdated people type (physical) getting outlawed and socially condemned. The type of violence nearly all people still employ getting encouraged, praised, and happily "unseen" when it is evident and under the light of the sun for anybody to see.

And as always across their history, humans will handclap the winners — so will courts, laws, opinion makers, social media crowds...

You get good at the violence society approves of in your age, and are a socially-praised, "good person". You stick to the outlawed methods, and you are a loser, thus a monster. (Winners = good people; losers = evil ones. That's every society's pivot assessment standard.)

Now, a psychologically subtle man may be a match for a female when it comes to manipulation. Yet still, it'll feel as work, and useless work at that, to him (he will be manipulating consciously), while the female will be devising her manipulation unconsciously and self-deceptively, thus with no effort (and no guilt, and no sense of responsibility whatsoever).

[–]The-Hardball-Player 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Game isn't about convincing all women.

Game is about filtering through the wrong women.

[–]Frenetic_Zetetic 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You should be gaming on multiple girls simultaneously anyway, so this really should be a non-issue.

[–]LeChadAussie 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Very well said and it's as simple as that. Guys who act controlling come off as desperate and clingy. She is lucky you have chosen her and should realise that and if she doesn't, she can take the L as you move on. Not your loss boys and plenty more out there!

[–]Witch-Doctor 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks a lot man. I’ve been realising a lot about myself from this last fuck up and it’s only up to me to make it better. I really don’t know where to start, this has been building up for a while and it all came crashing down. I just feel really lost and don’t know what direction to take. I’ll check out the other sections of this sub reddit too

[–]AggressiveBeta 1 points1 points [recovered]

"You're going to hang out with Chad one-on-one? OK I'm going to have Becky over that night. Have fun!"

If that doesn't stop her then it's time to think about demoting to plate.

[–]AllgBeamtenrecht 2 points3 points  (0 children)

no. that is adapting to her frame and demotes you to beta. you dont make plans depending on what your bitch is doing.

[–]gearz22 1 points1 points [recovered]

Fairly new to TRP i want to ask question about this.

What are you supposed to do if a guy is cat calling your date & she responds? This thread contradicts what i have read here about being make her feel protected.

  1. If she responds to other guys flirting with her in your presence she must not have respect for you in the first place.

  2. I understand that a woman wants to feel secure & protected when you are with her.

[–]anon2777 0 points1 point  (0 children)

this is the real red pill boys

[–]physicalbitcoin 0 points1 point  (0 children)

They want Khal Drogo, not Joffery.

[–]Liart13 1 points1 points [recovered]

There's only one way to control: be adamant. Let her understand that you won't tolerate any bullshit and that you won't let her talk her way out. The message is "I don't give a shit about your reasoning. I don't like something, I'm out." And it's actually the easiest and most effective way, like that 20/80 theory.

[–]Gooners84 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I blew through women/girls like this in my twenties and after the first time I made a decision not to give a shit anymore. I wasn't going to marry any of them and most of the time I'd get the 2am text from them "hey, what are you doing?" After a week of them exploring other men or going out with their girlfriends. Once I met my wife I realized this isn't all females just a very obnoxious/childish group.

[–]TheLoneProspector 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I agree. I finally met a stable girl who does not play games. She came from a good family, is confident, and is mature. Red pill theories still work a bit, but you can't be so extreme. If she has self respect, she won't tolerate you not respecting her.

[–]strikethrough123 0 points1 point  (1 child)

You telling her not to talk to other guys = attention.

She talks to other guys to start drama = more attention.

She cheats and you find out = even more attention.

Withdraw all attention when you encounter bad behavior without saying a fucking word. She will always be testing your limits and seeing how much she can get away with, don't let her past the first step.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Definitely, I didn't think it would cause drama before. So much drama was caused in that time period of my life. Once I changed that's when all drama ended with my interactions with females.

[–]Hjalmbere 1 points1 points [recovered]

Don’t want your gf to talk to other guys? Are you mental?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Did u not understand the read? Clearly it was a past issue Lmao

[–]kungfukenny15 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is an issue I’ve been having a lot of trouble with recently, and haven’t really found a good solution for yet. I’m a pretty passive guy by nature so I tend to ‘be cool’ with a lot of stuff. Problem was that I wasn’t cool with a lot of stuff that I thought I might have been.

At the end of the day, people are going to do what they want. If she wants to cheat she will. I’m honestly completely ok with that. The part that I have trouble with is if there was something I could have done or changed that would have prevented it.

One of my working theories is that this type of frame is like teaching styles. In high school, there are just some teachers you don’t mess around with. They don’t need to even say anything, you just know not to pull shit in their class. Same exact kids can go to the next period with a different teacher and it’s like a zoo.

I think the point is that it’s important need to set the tone early - that way even if something happens, you did everything you could.

[–]bippitybopped 1 points1 points [recovered]

If a girl was really into me for a bit (4-5 hookups) and then goes on holiday for a few months and is kinda passive in organizing a meetup what's the go?

[–]suxxos 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The only girl that every cheated on me was the girl I was totally obsessed about. I was jealous of every guy that was near her, and told her about it. When she cheated on me and I found out and confronted her about it, she said she felt like I treated her as my possession and she just couldn't take in anymore, and that's why she cheated.

[–]1by1is3 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Women can only be ''controlled'' through social dread by society, never by an individual. Women are more social creatures and need social proof to do anything, so they can only be controlled by society at large that punishes bad behavior by ostracizing the offending individuals. Women care more about being ostracized than men, and will be more likely to fall in line.

[–]DatingCoach111 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Haven't heard his work, but I'll take that as a compliment.

[–]Winterwolf98 0 points1 point  (0 children)

With a Weak frame controlling doesn't work.

[–]cafeitalia 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Women will be your slaves when you are a real man. Real man does not give a shit. And lives truly with that mindset. So when she knows if she cheats on you, you will not give a rat's ass, and just kick her out of your life, she will never cheat but instead will work to make you happy. Real man don't work for woman's happiness or anybody else's happiness, real man only work for themselves.

[–]12345jk12345 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Controlling in a sense that she is doing what you want without question is how it works. If she questions ANYTHING, then yes, "controlling" doesn't work.

Focus on controlling your own mind first.

[–]redpilledguy 0 points1 point  (4 children)

Quite simply you missed the difference between dominant and domineering. Your old self was that later masquerading as the former, your new self actually is the former without realizing it because you embraced DNGAF.

Also, go reread 7 Habits. You’re focusing on shit outside of yourself that you can’t control. Don’t.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children)

The difference between being dominant and domineering is in how astutely you manage the relation (I am not calling it a relationship, but a relation).

If you are domineering the right way, you'll be reckoned as well-meaning and dominant. If you are domineering the wrong way, you'll be judged as domineering.

(It's like "selfish". Selfishness that doesn't work will be seen as selfishness. That which works, as beneffective behaviour.)

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

How to do that which works? Understand human psychology — and female psychology. Have no emotions tying you with them on a level of any depth.

[–]redpilledguy 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Incorrect. Domineering is by definition “doing it the wrong way.” It is arbitrary and childish. Dominant, on the other hand, is measured, controlled, inspires others to want to please, and is inherently “doing it the right way”. You are conflating the two and creating false equivalence.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Now, all I can wish is that, along with hasting to downvote my reply and telling me a good number of times how confused I am, you'd actually read what I posted.

Or become aware of the presence of masks put on egos — which make appearances, and real intentions, different from each other if not opposite to each other.

The equivalence is real, and it's in the purpose. The purpose is power.

Behind the mask, the dominant and the domineering are the same person. It's differently honed and skilfully crafted, and effective masks, that set them apart.

I am typing this clarification for the reader's sake, not as a reply to you (I don't reply to comments that, clearly, are personally confrontational in nature, alike to "it's not as you say it's as I say" arguments between schoolmates. Have gotten past the time where "winning" so-called debates in comments sections could provide me a sense of fulfilment by some years).

[–]Sly21C 0 points1 point  (3 children)

So the idea is to not care if she cheats, because chances are she will cheat at least once? But also chances are she will less likely not cheat if she looks up to you and respects you?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Just worry about you; whatever happens, happens. Don't put much thought into it because you just might be in a whirlpool of pointless stress, ideas, etc.

Just become the best version of yourself, if a person wants to backstab you, so be it. Cut them off.

[–]Sly21C 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I agree 100%. I've tried being the controlling guy, but it doesn't work. I've been jealous but it's a waste of time and energy. Just let them be and accept that they'll most likely cheat if they want to.

Would I be correct to have a frame of mind that they may cheat, but they mustn't let me find out because if I do catch them then it's an automatic divorce/break up? No one would want to be with someone that cheats and doesn't bother to hide it from her husband/boyfriend.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Being jealous is so draining, I remember being there. But it's totally up to how you want to live and what's your standards. I personally believe a woman will eventually cheat, but I believe every woman and man eventually cheats in a relationship.

I've read how some redpilled guys would get lazy or be depressed and their woman eventually cheated and stopped when the man got their shit together, those men forgave their woman because they were married and they saw it as their fault.

It depends on how you feel, once your in the situation and decide what's best for yourself. Is the person really a benefit in your life?

You can keep her, till you find better; or just leave her and move on with your life.

[–]01-559-2620 0 points1 point  (3 children)

I watched a comedian talk about women being cheaters and how it always suprises their men when they find out... like what you thought it was logistically impossible for her to accomplish this?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

It's so easy for women to cheat.

[–]01-559-2620 -2 points-1 points  (1 child)

That's pretty much what I just said.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I know, I'm letting out my thought.

[–]abdolfhitcoln420 -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Controlling doesn’t work unless incorporated with actual violence. My father was this way with my mom - quite abusive to her.

This strategy won’t work now in the current year thanks to rampant feminism.

[–]Carlosc1dbz -1 points0 points  (0 children)

At the most, you can buy yourself time, and poor quality time at that.

[–]TheQueensLeftNipple 1 points1 points [recovered]

You can't control women because we're human beings with our own minds and not robots you can program to do your bidding although there exceptions like incredibly broken girls that have been abused.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Even millions of people can be controlled at once, with the right devices.

What is power — apart from control, that the controlled will never see as control, or rear against?

The point is in having no feelings for the controlled — except maybe hidden contempt.

So: you can't control the people you love.

[–]TheQueensLeftNipple 1 points1 points [recovered]

Maybe if you stopped trying to control people and treated them with respect you would actually get laid

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That is off-topic, derailed (meaning my comment gave you emotional suffering and you couldn't manage it. Why so?) and an ad-hominen.

Or should I just say: womanly? (You also told us you are a woman in your first comment, which users here are invited not to).

[–]BurnoutRS -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Learning to let go of shit thats out of your control extends beyond women, even beyond personal relationships.

I used to be the kind of person that would make a plan for a day, lets say I wanted to ride my bike into the city and back (a good 4-8 hour trip depending on the route) and if it rained on that day? Well, guess i can just sit around and play videogames.

Last night in the gym I was working through a pretty intense leg routine. I started feeling that pull in my legs that told me "you do another set of deadlifts and youre gonna fucking pull something" so I quit 4/16 sets into my workout and went home to finger my pussy.... Oh wait no i didnt, I fucking wrote a note in my log book about why I had to cut it short and then I came up with 3 non leg exercises to fill out the additional 12 sets I needed.

Works so well with my parents too. Im living at home while im recovering from a brain injury. If they get off their rockers about some bullshit like me not being able to do housework because im incapacitated, or the house smelling like weed (which alleviates my symptoms enough that I can actually do housework) i just go about my business. You wanna yell at me? Thats your precious emotional energy being wasted, not mine. I used to get sucked into arguments and burn through hours being pissed off and working through unnecessary emotions. So much wasted time

[–]2000inchbiceps -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

If you can't control something completely, don't even bother at all.