Red Pill TheoryThe Red Pill vs. the Black Pill (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by Endorsed ContributorDownvoteToDisagree

There is a significant split between the "Red Pill" philosophy here and the perspective of the incel community known as the "Black Pill." The term for TRP, of course, comes from The Matrix in which "taking the red pill" will pull the wool from your eyes and wake you up to the actual reality around you, giving you a chance to fight back from your exploitation within the system. Specifically, the reality of being a man in the sexual market of modern society and how to improve your position therein.

When incels talk about "taking the black pill," they also mean an awakening, but specifically a nihilistic awakening into a bleak and immutable fate that lays before you. The sexual marketplace is predeterimined from the start, so if you can't win, don't try. This difference is key.

The Sexual Reality

We all know the Pareto principle: that the top 20% of a group typically reaps 80% of the rewards within a system. In the sexual marketplace, generally speaking, the top quintile of men are getting the lion's share of sex, with rapidly diminishing returns down the line.

This bears out in the stats: an American man at the 50th percentile (median) has had 6 sexual partners in his lifetime. A man at the 80th percentile has had 15 partners (and it must dramatically increase from there). Genetic history proves that, throughout history, a disproportionately small ratio of men were mating with all the mothers and passing their genes to the next generation. At one point in early-civilization human history, mothers outnumbered fathers 10:3.

...So, some guys get laid and others don't, and that's the way it's always been. Okay. But what's the difference between the Red Pill and Black Pill reation to this?

Black-Pillers are Game-Denialists

Elliot Rodgers is a grim hero to the Black Pill community. He regularly posted on PUA Hate, which was an anti-pickup artist, anti-game forum that made fun of the professional pickup artist community for, in their belief, selling something that doesn't exist. They basically believed that game can't get you laid, and PUAs are all snake oil salesmen peddling fakery.

This bears out in the Black Pill incel community, which essentially believes that your looks, height, and race will either make you a "Chad" by birth or be damned to a pitiful sexual existence. Anything else (money, personality, status, frame...) will barely move the needle.

The thing about Elliot Rodgers (besides his clear emotional issues) is that he came from a well-off family and wasn't an ugly guy. I guarantee, if he made different choices and learned game instead of denying it, he could have had a normal sex life. He was just an introvert who idolized those USC sorority sluts. Of course they rejected him for SoCal frat bros. In his game-denialism, he refused to see there were other options for him.

Black Pillers reject this argument because "as a normie, you wouldn't understand, and any girl you game will really just be pining for a true Chad..." It's a self-fulfilling prophecy of failure.

There are TrueCel men out there, of course. But if you are not physically deformed or mentally handicapped, game has the power to elevate your abilities and dampen whatever challenges you have (be it height, race, or what have you). Black Pillers overestimate these challenges to be impenetrable mountains when they are just hills and walls, and those can be conquered with the right tools.

The Red Pill moves past the anger stage

Because the Black Pill offers no solutions, and only bleak hopelessness, the progress moves something like this:

  1. Taking the Black Pill
  2. Awakening to harsh reality of "inceldom"

And that's it. Because their ideology does not offer any tools for moving forward, they are stuck at number 2 in the anger stage. If you ever read the incel forums, it is like lobsters in a bucket, dragging each other down so no one can escape.

Someone awakening to the Red Pill, on other hand, can experience something like this:

  1. Taking the Red Pill
  2. Awakening to the realities of the sexual market place
  3. Anger about being misled by society up to that point
  4. Learning how to cope, then navigate, then succeed in the SMP
  5. Improvement and success

You'll notice that the post flairs in TRP fall under numbers 3-5. Venting and Blue Pill Examples fall under 3, Red Pill Theory and Building Power falls under 4, Field Reports and Red Pill Examples fall under 5.

TRP offers the tools to deliver you out of the awakening and anger stage, and towards a more successful life. This is why there are no mass-murderers trying to further a "red pill revolution." The revolution is already occurring, individually, when you make those changes in your life, study and improve your game, develop your masculine and successful lifestyle.

[–]Senior Endorsed ContributorCopperFox3c 385 points386 points  (64 children)

What is really ironic about all the criticism of TRP is that we are the only ones offering real solutions to these men. Feminism offers them nothing. Our feminist-laden society is just taking these angry and hopeless men and turning them into ticking time bombs.

Of course, many of those dudes don't take the advice TRP provides, or lack the fortitude to see it through, but the path beyond is clearly laid out here.

[–]drty_pr 147 points148 points  (12 children)

If a dude comes here, picks up the tools provided and decides (while not promoted) to find a girl and get married. If he does so with the knowledge of RedPill and goes into this relationship with the best understanding of gender dynamic, thats a success.

BluePull just tells men to go all in on feelz and BlackPill just tells men you are guaranteed getting fucked. RedPill gives actionable advice.

Nobody sees that though

[–]james_the_dean 22 points23 points  (6 children)

Well some do, that's why we are here :)

[–]Unrealenting 24 points25 points  (5 children)

They should be celebrating. TRP trains men to become the kind of Man women are sexually attracted to. I don't understand why anyone would be AGAINST TRP unless they are simply unhappy with what Women themselves respond favorably to, which, when taken to its logical conclusion, is a scathing exposition of Women's nature, NOT Men's. Attacking TRP would be equivalent to shooting themselves in the foot with a gun they loaded. I'm confident they'll realize this soon enough and back off.

[–]Diarrhea_Van_Frank 10 points11 points  (3 children)

Because it takes a portion of power away from the selectors. Nobody wants to see how hard you worked to get where you are. Everyone wants to believe you’re just a natural. It makes you more attractive to women, and men don’t feel insecure about the fact that they’re not working hard enough to achieve the results they want. Law 30: Make your accomplishments seem effortless.

[–][deleted] 15 points16 points  (0 children)

"Women don't care about the struggle, they hang out at the finish line and fuck the winners."

[–]ApexmanRP 2 points3 points  (0 children)

"is a scathing exposition of Women's nature"

This is why society (feminism) hates TRP, because it exposes women's nature. They don't give a fuck about improving men, only that the precious women don't look bad.

[–]TheRealJesusChristus 9 points10 points  (1 child)

Im here bc I saw through it. I was a bluepill. Then I stumbled upon blackpill videos on youtube. What they say seems about right. Now I had two choices: accept that as the truth and accept to never get girls, or saying „fuck it, I have see uglyass guys with no money, no status, getting a girl. To be more specific: my dad. He is a small latino, with really much indigen blood. He doesnt look good. He is about 5‘3 maybe 5‘4 (I dont know how to eyeball inches as Im european. But I know Im 5‘11, so I eyeball it through that. For europeans Im about 1.80m and my dad about 1.55-1.60m). He didnt even speak german as he came to germany. My mom isnt badlooking (I cant really tell as shes my mom and not exceptionally hot like a 10/10. but she gets a lot of attention). And still I was born. How? Because TBlackP is wrong. As I said I was bluepilled (my mom divorced my dad, it was not a divorcerape, as I said he didnt have and still has no money, status or anything. So he didnt have much of an influence on me). But I somehow figured out that blupill is wrong too. So I got onto the search and trp is the next best thing to the truth. It combines the right stuff from the black pill (looks matter, chads get chicks, if you aint chad, good bye) with the right stuff from PUA (who are blue pilled) (game works) and with a bit of bluepill truth as well (game is not all what works, girls do what they think they should do and arent robots, maybe thats all but at least theres something lol). So in the end its not 100% accurate, every dude has to figure out what works for him. But its the only Pill that doesnt promise to be 100% accurate and which doesnt promise a step by step guide into how to be successfull (or in black pilles case, step1: you wont be successfull, the end).

So Im now working out, many people already commented on how I look fit, good, hot, etc... i notice girls looking my direction with a gaze of approvement instead of ignoring me in the best case or being disgusted in he worst case (actually did happen to me. Not nice, wont tell the story). I start to get laid and it seems as if every post I read here makes it simpler, gives me better understanding of why, and all in all its just great. As I said you have to test yourself out. You cant expect someone doing the work for you. You are the man in your life, you do the important work in it.

At least Im not too short in size, Im not 6‘+ but Im close enough that nobody notices the difference. Its just a number after all. Luckily my mom is tall lol.

[–]TRP VanguardHumanSockPuppet 37 points38 points  (1 child)

What is really ironic about all the criticism of TRP is that we are the only ones offering real solutions to these men. Feminism offers them nothing. Our feminist-laden society is just taking these angry and hopeless men and turning them into ticking time bombs.

I don't think it's ironic at all.

I think to a certain degree, it's deliberate.

On the small scale, individual women benefit from having a society of tame, obedient men. It means they can easily extract provisioning from those weak obedient men, and they can extract sexual satisfaction from the few dominant outlier men without fear of judgment or social repercussion. This we all know.

But on the large scale, the ruling class also benefits from feminism steamrolling over men. For every Elliott Rodger who shoots up his school, the ruling class has yet another justification for eroding individual rights and imposing systems of control disguised as systems of safety. The less masculine men are, the less confrontational they become, and the more they allow themselves and their society to be controlled by the privileged few.

Mind you, there's no coordinated conspiracy at the heart of this. This is simply the result of numerous, disparate individuals reading the social terrain and acting in their perceived interests. Women and politicians do whatever advances their agendas, however simplistic, animalistic, or widely ambitious those agendas might be.

The Red Pill is a reasoned, calculated antithesis to those agendas. The one thing that feminists and politicians have definitively in common is that they depend upon the capitulation of men in order to achieve their goals. We teach men how to identify when someone is attempting to manipulate them, and how to counter it.

[–]Snazzy_Serval 24 points25 points  (35 children)

Is it actually possible to go from invisible incel to a man who is actively getting laid? Examples seem to be pretty rare. I wonder if most guys just give up.

[–]Senior Endorsed ContributorCopperFox3c 69 points70 points  (16 children)

I do well with women, but I am never going to be Brad Pitt. So should I give up too?

If the only acceptable end goal is perfection and getting everything you want, then you are going to be consistently disappointed in life. However, if the end goal is simply to be better each day than you were the day before, then the world is a place of endless opportunities.

Be the victim, or rise above, those are your two choices.

[–]H4RV3YSP3CT3R 22 points23 points  (1 child)

Fun fact that relates to this post.

Brad Pitt actually couldn't score any dates until he was further into his Hollywood career.

Google it

[–]1AuspexAO 9 points10 points  (0 children)

What you are saying is exactly how I view myself. I will NEVER be perfect. I'm not going to be 20 again, or have a billion dollars to be able to have fifty coeds on a yacht party. The idea that I need perfection to have sexual encounters with members of the opposite sex is just as dangerous of a fantasy as believing that "the one" who understands my every thought and desire will be delivered to me via a "meet cute" like in every romcom.

You don't need to be perfect to stop being trash. I started getting, "Wow. You're looking really good!" when I hit 270 fucking pounds! 270 is fatter than some of you guys will ever be. By the time I hit 230 with some nice forearms that looked more like dad arms than a body-builders I was getting IOI from random women. Now I do fine. I'm not spinning ten plates or fucking rooms full of supermodels, but I'm no longer that fat incel who took a pill one lonely night and was forced to accept that I was the problem. That the world wasn't going to serve me happiness on a platter because I was good and followed all the rules.

They think working out and improving our bodies, minds, and social skills is "snake oil?" I could fucking guarantee results. Ship me a fat nerd like I was and I will get him laid. Not by Jennifer Lawrence, not in two days or even a years, but it will happen.

Black Pill my ass.

[–]Snazzy_Serval 12 points13 points  (11 children)

I do well with women, but I am never going to be Brad Pitt. So should I give up too?

Wow that's a major jump from actively getting laid to Brad Pitt/perfection. How did you think I meant anything other than doing well with women?

To put it another way, is it possible to go from a man who never gets laid, to getting laid at least once a month? That's far from perfection, but it's still a huge change from incel.

[–]Zahlix 1 points1 points [recovered]

Kind of depends on the type of incel imo.

I think there are two kinds of incels out there:

  1. those who are serious victims of fate (birth defects, bad diseases, horrible accidents etc). we have to acknowledge that there are people out there who literally are INVOLUNTARILY celibate

  2. those who have a less than ideal starting position (extremely short, below average looks, overweight, balding, poor) in the SMP but are unable to see past their disadvantages and just give up

Group 1 seriously needs the incel space to vent and as a shared support system to exchange ideas. Procreation is of existential importance for men and women, being unable to fulfill that desire can have serious mental implications and those people need help and support to be able to deal with their circumstances.

Group 2 needs a serious kick in the ass to start working on themselves. Simply giving up isn't an option if you want to lead a rich and fulfilling life. We've all seen this guy posted as the epitome of inceldom. I saw multiple photoshops of him over the past year or so. Some people grew out the hair and made him smile. Others gave him a little tan and a stubble.

Just imagine what he could look like if he

  • hit the gym 3 times a week
  • ate right
  • cleaned and moisturized his face in the morning and evening
  • spend more time in the sun to get a slight tan
  • got a proper haircut
  • (if possible) grew a stubble
  • dressed better

The only 2 hard things in that list are literally eating right and working out. He would look better than the majority of idiots running around in the streets. He could gain 20 lbs of muscle and change his entire life in a year if he wanted to.

IMO he has all the potential in the world. Those are the kind of people that TRP wants to reach and those are the kind of people that can benefit from the tools laid out in this community.

Yes, I think that he would be able to get laid once a month (provided he is willing to sprinkle some game into his physical improvements)

[–]no_its_a_subaru 9 points10 points  (0 children)

It blows my mind how people don’t realize this about themselves. Just the smile made him go from miserable looser to average joe. Guess what, if you look like just existing is torture for you no one will want to be around you or your negative bullshit.

[–]Endorsed Contributorvandaalen 2 points3 points  (2 children)

those who are serious victims of fate (birth defects, bad diseases, horrible accidents etc).


The dude on the left is married to the woman on the right.

I rest my case.

[–]Snazzy_Serval 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Examples like that aren't realistic. For one, few people are that poor off, and also some women have a fetish for severe disabilities.

[–]Endorsed Contributorvandaalen 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Who started the horseshit?

[–]Cheeseking11 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Yes absolutely but it takes work and effort.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

In theory, the answer to your question is a simple and resounding 'yes'. In practice, it is far more complicated and it depends on the person. If you have a 'growth' mindset in this life, then you my friend are going to do well with women, career, family etc etc. If not, you're in for a wild wild, disappointing gut wrenching reality check.

[–]SitDownandPee 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Pay attention to this response. I love this place, and believe the ECs deserve their respect. But I feel they have moved away from delivering and savoring red pill truths and being honest, in favor of pushing the value of this place. He even shamed you as you noticed. You were foolishly seeking perfection simply by asking the question. I'm itchy at how close that was to a feminine answer.

The options were,

"No, incel men aren't needed in the SMV and thus should find value elsewhere."

"Yes, if they work hard enough to cultivate value and some basic looks, they will be able to play in the SMV and possibly have some hook-ups, while still being used in LTRs."

Why would that have been so hard? We seem to be hiding from the incels around here. It used to be every other post was some wuss arguing that marriage was worthy of our efforts, and could still be obtained. No one held back from discussing reality with these men.

But for some reason when someone asks to be told the truth about incels, it becomes a chance to push the TRP and sell "lifting, a focus on career, and to stop whining." Its all very much a side step with a little shaming for flavor.

[–]Doulich 0 points1 point  (0 children)


what is the "sidebar"?

[–]CryostaticLT 3 points4 points  (0 children)

The word fear has probably the best explanation there is of the two choices. Its either Forget Everything And Run, or Face Everything And Rise.

[–]Godskook 10 points11 points  (11 children)

You have exactly two options:

  1. Be pathetic and give up now

  2. Do things that would benefit you -anyway- that also make you attractive to women.

Like....really, the three main tenants of TRP are:

A. Have Strong frame

B. Take care of your body

C. Be fun to be around

Whine all you want about it, but I guarantee you, if you make solid gains in those three areas, you'll be happier with your life, regardless of how much you got laid. Even better, you'll probably get laid.

Examples seem to be pretty rare. I wonder if most guys just give up.

Who cares what "most guys" do? If we want to be good at basketball, we look at Michael Jordan, not Joe Schmoe. If we want to be good at League of Legends, we look at Faker. If we want to be good at golf, we look at Tiger Woods. If we want to be good at physics, Albert Einstein.

Stop caring about people who are failures, and improve yourself after people who are successful.

[–]Snazzy_Serval 3 points4 points  (9 children)

Like....really, the three main tenants of TRP are:

A. Have Strong frame

B. Take care of your body

C. Be fun to be around

B is by far the easiest to accomplish. All it takes is discipline.

A and C, that's when things get difficult. Honestly I've been reading TRP for a long time, and this is the first thing I've seen somebody mention , "Be fun to be around" of course it makes perfect sense.

Getting back to A and C. If somebody is an incel, and I'm using the bare-bones definition of "involuntarily celibate" odds are they have a very weak frame. Like wise if they aren't getting laid, they are probably depressed and not much fun to be around. Stuck in a loop.

Who cares what "most guys" do? Stop caring about people who are failures, and improve yourself after people who are successful.

That's exactly it. I don't care about the failures. That's why I asked about the guys who succeeded. I want to see how it was done. If no Joe Schmoe was able to go from getting none to getting some, then that's worrying.

[–]Godskook 4 points5 points  (4 children)

A and C, that's when things get difficult. Honestly I've been reading TRP for a long time, and this is the first thing I've seen somebody mention , "Be fun to be around" of course it makes perfect sense.




In this thread:


If no Joe Schmoe was able to go from getting none to getting some, then that's worrying.

You're back to caring about failures, or you wouldn't be asking this question. People are obviously still getting laid. Still getting married, still having success. But you've flipped a term I was using to describe failures(Joe Schmoe) to being a term you're now using to describe a group that contains both successful and non-successful people. It's a semantic 'trick' that you probably didn't realize you did, but based on the context I established, you're essentially asking me the non-sensical: 'If no failures were able to go from getting none to getting some, then that's worrying.". But no, it's not because it's a tautology in my context.

Let's re-phrase in a more useful way: "If nobody who uses the techniques of the pros are able to go from getting none to getting some, then that's worrying". And well, that's obviously not true, because the pros used those techniques, and went from getting none to getting some. And you're dismissing them as not being "Joe Schmoe"-enough of people to work for you.

The point that TRP is trying to get you to swallow, in part, is that a LARGE part of your success in the sexual marketplace is actionable, and your sole responsibility. When you disassociate yourself from successful strategies with phrases like that I quoted, as if "Joe Schmoe" implementing those strategies successfully is somehow different than Faker or Jordan implementing the same strategies, you're inherently rejecting the The Red Pill. You're not trying to be #1 worldwide, you just need a more...average level of success, and one that's less common today than it should be.

[–]modTheRedPike[M] 3 points4 points  (3 children)

Lovely comment. Don't hotlink any sub including ours. Use archive.is please.

[–]Godskook 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Yeah, I don't post here often, figured in-sub links would be cool. Figured wrong. I'll grab archive links next time.

[–]modTheRedPike 0 points1 point  (1 child)

We get too many unfortunate visitors that try to use it against all of us. I'll go ahead and approve it (before just reacting to the reports).

[–]Godskook 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well that's bunk. You guys get too many RP-Ragers here for that to be a useful endeavor.

[–]Flintblood 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Exactly. I think this post mischaracterizes ‘black pill’ as incels when they are more likely MGTOW who made a calculated decision based on costs vs benefits for their specific cases and then decided not to play the game.

[–]thisishowiwrite 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Except MGTOW advocates self-impovement. Incels advocate giving up.

[–]1Original_Dankster 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Most Incels are nihilists, most MGTOW are ambivalent optimists... Stoics if you will.

[–]zyzzguido55 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Yes dude. I've been there. Was ridiculously skinny in high school with a huge nose, worked my ASS off to get muscular, put myself out there, yes, eventually I became better looking because my face grew in, but I was the definition of incel in high school. Look at zyzz. Another perfect example

[–]Snazzy_Serval 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Cool, thanks for the story.

Though I wouldn't call somebody an incel until they are 25+. Many many guys graduated HS a virgin.

[–]ozenmacher 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I like to say yes, because I was an incel for my basically my entire adult life until the last two. Got fit, started climbing mountains, stopped giving a fuck, learned how to dress properly, learned how to flirt, started eating right, etc. Yeah, I am short and probably a 6 on a lucky day, but I am also a leader, and thanks to TRP, I have unbreakable frame (after learning the hard way...a lot). It is amazing how women flock to that (because confidence, which is rooted in reality, is sexy).

[–]1AuspexAO 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Fuck yeah man. Mountain climbing is a great physical hobby to have, too. So many women at my gym climb and are always looking for a partner and they always want a guy too...I wonder why ;). I'm not getting on a mountain for love or money, so I should shoot you some referrals, ha ha.

[–]Sumsar01 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's going to happen to my training partner. He is a bit fat and autistic. So he's not very good at talking to girls. Wear glasses dress like a retard.

But he is 6'2". Has genetics like a gorilla (25 FFMI after one year of training) and he is starting to get a bit confidence. When he lose a bit more fat and dress better he will soon start turning heads. Guys already call him a monster.

Most people are not even close to utilizing their genetic potential in any way.

[–]1Entropy-7 6 points7 points  (5 children)

I arrived at TRP as a 40-ish man with perhaps too much experience with women.

The thing is THIS: TRP is in accord with my 30+ year of experience of dealing with women. The teenager and 20 something and 30 somthings who are coming here have what I never had and I had to learn by trial and error.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (4 children)

Same here. I let slip that I spend time here and was told I'm brainwashed, blah blah. I have over 20 years of LTR's under my belt, and TRP made so much sense in light pix them.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

we are the only ones offering real solutions to these men.


[–]SeaRepeat 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Question though, if we are not talking about getting laid but about marriage/ LTR more specifically marriage don't you guys agree that Black Pill theory is more accurate ... obviously for having fun spinning plate nothing better than TRP but by the admission of people like Roosh you can't control all the variables that trigger women behavior till the day you die and even if you can is it worth the effort?

[–]I_HATE_GOLD_ 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Seriously. What a bunch of self deprecating individuals. Stop being such whiny pussy ass bitches. Go to the gym, learn a thing or two about style, learn how to not be socially awkward, set personal and career goals and stop at nothing to achieve them. It’s really fucking simple. Get off your ass black and blue pillers, stop playing video games and jerking it to pornhub so much. I promise anyone one of those individuals if they use the tools provided here, stop making excuses for themselves, they will definitely reap the rewards.

[–]Casd12 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I dont get why men follow feminists' advice. I mean the whole term of a feminist is:a person who supports feminism, aka supporting women. The whole movement isnt there to support men, its there to support women. Asking feminists what men should do is like asking a whale how to walk.

[–]kurdishpower01 1 points1 points [recovered]

Black pill: I am this way. I will stay this way. Red pill: I am this way. I will change my ways. Blue pill: I hope I'll get it my way

[–]1yeahmaybe2 107 points108 points  (7 children)

Black Pill = Fixed mindset

Red Pill = Growth mindset

Blue Pill = "There's a mindset?"

[–]modTheRedPike[M] 18 points19 points  (1 child)

I rarely give points, but rarely do I see someone explain the dynamic as succinct as this.


[–]hard2burn 1 points1 points [recovered]

How would you desribe purple pill?

[–]Endorsed Contributorsadomasochrist 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Black Pill : This is the way it is, I reject participating. (Discouraged)

Blue Pill : This is the way I believe it should be, I don't need to change (compete). (Naive)

Red Pill : This is the way it is, I must compete. (Informed)

They can't be unified exactly since blue pill males are using idealized concepts. Black pill males have more in common with us than they do with blue pill men. They just reject competing for whatever reason. I don't buy the MGTOW guys. They're just black pill men in denial.

The few guys that legit are "MGTOW" are either asexual or low sex drive naturals.

[–][deleted] 44 points45 points  (9 children)

I have known some very average or below average guys that get laid a lot and the vast majority of the ladies are very attractive. One childhood friend is often unemployed, lives in his parents guest house, has a kid, battles depression, is 5’9 max, etc.

How at 35 does he consistently have 4/5 attractive girls in their early to mid 20’s in the rotation?

  1. He is not scared to approach an attractive girl anytime or anywhere. Zero fear of rejection.
  2. He is fit. On the skinny side but with definition.
  3. He is fun to hang out with. He has a laugh that draws people and he is a good story teller.

[–]Mach2Machiavellian 41 points42 points  (5 children)

Let’s dub this holy trinity “FFF” – Fearless, Fit, and Fun. Especially once a guy hits his 30s, being FFF puts him well above his competition.

Source: FFF guy in his 30s.

[–]1AuspexAO 8 points9 points  (1 child)

Ha ha, in the medical biz we call that gall bladder risk, son! (Female, Fat, and Forty)

[–]ButtRobot 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Care to elaborate on this a bit? I'm interested in this concept,

I've always felt like I was an apt speaker. Yet, I feel like I fuck up narration or story telling hopelessly. What would you recommend?

[–]Mach2Machiavellian 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Did you mean to ask /u/dealarchitect?

[–]midnightreider 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I like it

[–]TRP VanguardHumanSockPuppet 68 points69 points  (9 children)

Because the Black Pill offers no solutions, and only bleak hopelessness, the progress moves something like this:

  1. Taking the Black Pill
  2. Awakening to harsh reality of "inceldom"

The thing is, The Black Pill provides no insight into the aspect of reality that really matters: control over yourself.

Yeah, women are selfish. Yeah, men are selfish. Yeah, the evolution game is tilted in favour of the bold and the ready. So what? Now that you know how to make yourself ready, get off your ass and get to work.

The Blue is self-delusion regarding everything in the world.

The Black Pill is self-delusion about the most important aspect of the world, the self.

And the Red Pill is an acceptance of unpleasant truths in the pursuit of being free from servitude.

[–]TRP VanguardWhisper 32 points33 points  (5 children)

No matter how bad the hand of cards you have been dealt, your only options are play to the best of your ability, or don't.

The results of the first are quantifiably better. Your choice is not between average genetics with active effort to learn and improve, or super genetics. It's between whatever genetics you have with effort to improve your lot, or without.

Your genetics, like the nature of women, is the terrain, i.e. an aspect of the the battlefield which you must work with because you cannot alter it.

[–]originaltransvaginal 1 point2 points  (3 children)

Do you guys offer anything to suggest that you're forming these opinions objectively? The way this discussion is evolving lends itself so much to tribalism, that the question must be asked, are we simply protecting our own butts?

My thesis is that we're dealing with a crowd who was thoughtful enough to show themselves the light. If they went wrong from there they still have my respect. I cannot understand the desire to "other" the only other group which is willing to acknowledge us in an intelligent manner.

The idea that tRP is the only one of these that is viable is setting off bias alarms. It all feels very similar to how Jordan Peterson expresses his thoughts on MGTOW. He suggests they are bitter and resentful and that they should work on themselves.

Except for the fact that they'd be the only ones carrying that burden. Women cant work harder to overcome biology, but men should grow up. To suggest they work harder ignores everyone below them. It may be irresponsible of them, but nothing is foolish if you can explain your reasoning and justifying that you don't care if the reprocusions are severe.

It an option between being selfish(mgtow) alone or selfless(TRP spinning plates or captaining an LTR/marriage) alone. I get it the vocal incels are morons, but they are low hanging fruit. We won't grow from having such a weak strawman. They can be intelligent and still decide the SMV isn't worth it.

It's even one of his fucking rules to treat a dissenter with the openness that they MIGHT have something worthwhile to say.

I'm blessed with looks so maybe it's easy for me to sympathize with these guys. Maybe some of us want to be tough on this topic cuz it's eating at the back of their minds, always. The world is fucked up. And one of the only ways you could fuck it more, is to raise kids on the idea that it's all magical, only to rip that out from under them. I cannot shit on the dudes who are intelligent enough to realize this but can't get over it.

I would never denigrate nihilistic pragmatism in the name of the hard work a sheep or natural could accomplish without coming to that realization.

[–]TRP VanguardWhisper 4 points5 points  (2 children)

The way this discussion is evolving lends itself so much to tribalism, that the question must be asked, are we simply protecting our own butts?

My thesis is that we're dealing with a crowd who was thoughtful enough to show themselves the light.

There's no "we". TRP is a forum for strategy discussion. There's no movement, no membership card, and no philosophy. I'm not trying to launch a crusade, or discover the "truth" (whatever that word might mean). I'm telling dudes how to get laid.

This isn't a debate about what's real. It's a choice between "trying to get laid" and "not trying".

Wanna try? Here's the tools. Don't wanna try? Fine, off you go.

[–]originaltransvaginal 1 point2 points  (1 child)

The elation I felt thinking you'd decided to engage me. The excitement at the possibility of having my mind changed or educated.

Look if questioning you made it seem as if I was a contrarian then I'm willing to look the other way. I don't pretend I'm as eloquent a writer as someone with readers. I was simply trying to pose the opposing view point a bit more robustly. I won't say intelligently because I'm just riffing.

I don't even know why I care about this point. I enjoy your writings. I'm a fan of this place, and I am not someone who says "I only accept certain aspects of the pill".

It feels weird that id be met with such a sentiment. That my question would elicit a defense is discouraging.

[–]TRP VanguardWhisper 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Missed the point.

You're talking about what the truth is, as if TRP were the philosophy department at some university.

But I'm not here to deal in eternal verities, as if we were somehow equipped to study and chart the map of human sexuality. I deal in gross generalizations that get dudes laid.

As such, the world can be divided into shit you can change and shit you can't change. Arguing about how much there is of each one is pointless, because you act the same either way... you deal only in shit you can change, because the other is by definition pointless to explore.

Even if the "black pill" were 97% percent true, it would be pointless to know this. Knowledge is only worthwhile when it empowers by enabling action.

[–]Senior Endorsed Contributormax_peenor 14 points15 points  (2 children)

And the Red Pill is an acceptance of unpleasant truths in the pursuit of being free from servitude.

Which is precisely why so many political entities (aka the media) are desperate to herd us into the camps with the incels: we represent the unwinding of their narrative and they just can't stand it.

[–]Senior Endorsed ContributorRian_Stone 50 points51 points  (5 children)

Something to think about with all these 'pills'.

Redpill made something. everyone else has no frame, and adopted ours, even our peanut gallery. Any non-redpill group is in RP frame.

Just laugh and move on

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (1 child)

In a sense, but I see the Red Pill as a template that has been implemented before but on much smaller degrees and circles, within the past. By that I mean what has been said on here, whether right or wrong, nasty or hopeful, is opinions and facts which have been stated before, on a personal, face to face conversation. But now we have the power of the web to communicate these ideas in a marketplace.

[–]Senior Endorsed ContributorRian_Stone 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Guys swapping notes.

Doesnt change that rp frame is leading the way

[–]Iwannachokekatie 4 points5 points  (2 children)

We stole the 'red pill' from a movie.

[–]Senior Endorsed ContributorRian_Stone 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Good artists borrow, great artists steal.

Also, your point would make sense if everyone was walking around with duster jackets practicing kung fu, or if we constantly compared ourselves with the characters from the Matrix

[–]Iwannachokekatie 3 points4 points  (0 children)

This is not art.

[–]1empatheticapathetic 11 points12 points  (1 child)

Incels have had no success. So the nihilism is the only option left.

If you TRPed for a few years and got nowhere, eventually you’d say “sure the black pill makes sense”.

The correlation is the majority are essentially virgins. They haven’t made it anywhere. If they had had a bit of success they’d drop the shit and move on.

Trying doesn’t guarantee success and they want to make a cost benefit analysis before trying.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Yea I think this is overlooked. Some guys are just so helpless that TRP isn’t going go help much. Most guys who swallow the red pill at least have a base to start from. They are regular guys that got screwed over by a chick one too many times or they don’t understand why they are decent looking and employed but underperform in the dating market.

TRP can help them the most, because for all its grandiosity, TRP is really at its core mostly just a subtle shift in how you think. Sadly, it probably can’t do much for the incel crowd that is just so far to the left end of the bell curve.

[–]t7888995 1 points1 points [recovered]

Elliot rodgers was insane, idk why ppl think he would be able to learn game, i suspect there actually are a substantial number (though small percentage) of truecels (ie obvious physical and/or mental deformaties), and its scary that theyre congregating on the internet and producing hateful content...banning them on reddit will be a story of the ages for them, like pouring gasoline on a fire...other than saying "pill" theres no comparison, theyre right in that point, theyre seriously deformed and its sad/scary

[–]surgeon_general 11 points12 points  (0 children)

There was a time on this subreddit when we weren't even allowed to mention his name. The concensus here was that he was pretty much the opposite of everything that red pill stood for. Ironically, people outside of this subreddit were blaming his red pill views for his actions (if I remember this correctly.)

[–]EvigSoeger 6 points7 points  (1 child)

What Elliot did after he snapped was crazy, yes, but he wasn't completely mental. Sure, he was Narcissistic, socially awkward, had a terrible attitude and was on prescription drugs, but he was always coherent and consistent about the frustrations that drove him off the deep end. It doesn't excuse his actions in the least (everybody's got problems, man up and deal with them) but when a guy like that is fed nothing but lies about how to get the chip off his shoulder, it's not surprising that he eventually takes it out on the world and/or kills himself.

[–]Chaddeus_Rex 7 points8 points  (8 children)

Elliot rodgers was insane,

Nah. I can promise you he would have acted differentky in another culture ir in another time.

[–]jihocech 81 points82 points  (14 children)

The red Pill is a very very American thing. As a Czech guy I can see it better than you. There is spirit of old USA here, of the people who defeated the Britons, the Indians, who conquered thee wilderness, who created free and rich society. TRP does not guarantee anything. Leaving Europe in 1880 did not guaratee anything, but it gave option.

what is Black pill? Complaining, whining... It leads to nowhere.

[–]rreot 18 points19 points  (0 children)

Yea I concur, as manosphere observer for years its true that many concepts or ideas are just common sense for us in EE.

[–]Stron2g 9 points10 points  (1 child)

Black pill is victim mentality.

Red pill is seeing reality for what it is and doing your very best with what you have to maximize your success rate in life.

In a way, black pill is red pills doppelganger, an alter ego of sorts.

[–]redd_reality 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Black pill is dissatisfaction turned outward and blaming others.

Red pill is dissatisfaction turned inward and blaming yourself.

Difference is, I'm not in control of others, I'm only in control of myself; I can do something about my own feelings of inadequacy.

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (5 children)

Dude, thanks for this observation.

[–]jesussexyabs 2 points3 points  (4 children)

Interesting perspective. Does anyone think that the constant discussion of feminism in mainstream media leaves no room for a real discussion about masculinity? ....

[–]redd_reality 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The "real" masculinity is the look in a woman's eyes as you walk past her on the street w your muscles popping, hair slicked back and a confident smile on your face.

Suckers live in the collective unconscious and attempt to change it, real men focus on their own consciousness and materialize it.

Mainstream media only serves to further blind the sheep that are already eating their message. Alphas will remain alpha, betas will remain betas. But the gap is polarizing more and more every day.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Probably, but no matter. I talk masculinity with this forum, my father, and my best friend. Other than that, I let my actions do the talking.

Edit: think you meant to go one up.

[–]FeelTheBernieSanderz 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Actually, men are actively denigrated in society, THAT, IS, the representation.

[–]redd_reality 2 points3 points  (1 child)

You just jerked off a whole lot of red pillers w that 'old USA' comparison.

Feelin like I need to blast Clearwater revival and machine gun gooks running through rice fields.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Very interesting observation.

[–]jihocech 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If you look around this sub, there is almost no hate or envy against the "Chad". But you can find here analysis, what does he do right and what we did do wrong (Rollo Tomassis blog is all about this).

[–]TRP VanguardWhisper 22 points23 points  (3 children)

Everyone always works on what they perceive their biggest problem to be.

Therefore, by looking at what people are working on, you can tell what they are most worried about.

Red pill readers work on improving themselves to get laid. Therefore, they think of their problem as "I want more and/or better pussy".

Incel Calvinists work on constructing a coherent explanation for how their lack of sexual success is not their fault. Therefore the problem that most concerns them is how they feel about their lack of sexual success.

What this tells us is that even they don't believe it. If they did, there would be nothing further to say, and no reason to think further about it.

[–]Senior Endorsed Contributormax_peenor 7 points8 points  (1 child)

What I'm waiting for is when someone actually does try to radicalize them. Sorry, CNN, autists shitting their own cribs on /pol/ isn't a radical plot. They are just acting out. However, they would be quite the dedicated and dangerous army under proper leadership. I'm wondering where everyone thinks these kids are going to go if they don't wake up and listen to us (and actually become something women want) or give up and hang themselves.

[–]Mach2Machiavellian 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That’s actually really insightful.

[–]chinese-bible 9 points10 points  (1 child)

  1. The Pareto principle is that 20% of efforts/ causes result in 80% of results. It has to do with focus. Take getting abs. CICO accounts for most of getting abs, not carb-refeeding-cycles or lemon-cayenne cleanses or whether you do dragon flies vs bosu crunches on Wednesday. All bullshit. Focus on big, simple things -- not minutia. That's Pareto. It's not that the top 20% reap 80% of the rewards. Nope. That HAPPENS to be true with men, but it's not Pareto. It doesn't apply to women. Do the top 20% of women get 80% of the men-- whatever? No, of course not. Men have lower standards and will fuck a lot looser including "Fuckin down" more frequently hence why the Alphas have harems. Reverse isn't true.

  2. I hate the focus on "game". Game is marketing. YOU are the product. To make the sale you need a decent product AND decent marketing. It's not rocket science. There are facial looks (can be improved with diet, leanness, makeup, hygiene, facial hair, haircuts) .... body looks (hit the gym) .... your general attitude/ demeanor/ fun loving personality ... your job, your wealth, your lifestyle, your fame, your social circle, your hobbies, your achievements, your mission, skills, talents, your geographic location, your values, your sense of humor. Many of these CAN BE IMPROVED. Game is just "icing" on the cake. Leonardo DiCaprio requires zero game. Adam Levine requires zero game. A smelly zit-face lardass gamer with no friends and no job is going to require a metric FUCK-TON of game rivaling the greatest world leaders and Machiavellian psychoanalysts of all time, combined, to land a 10. Game is important but requires a solid foundation. It's rare for women to have game -- but you ever meet one that did? A 7 that just made your balls tingly? Now ... has a 300 lb land whale ever done that to you? Yeah ... you need a foundation.

  3. Phase 1 of the Red Pill is realizing that "social status" or "the pecking order" or "alpha dog, beta fuck" .... it's all illusory. Made up. Theatrics. You were born a "geek"? Okay ... well you can become a jock. Easily. Step 1 is just believing it. You look the way they do, sound the way they do (whatever you want to be perceived as) ... you become that. But yeah it's all made-up bullshit and THAT is the first recognition. The social ladder is fluid. You can be a pauper in one place and a KING in another the very self-same night. A fat tubbo can be rejecting you at Arby's in the morning, and two models fighting over blowing you in a manhattan Gala later that night. Well, depending on how socially fluid and skilled you are.

Incels don't realize that. That the social ladder is largely ephemeral, mercurial bullshit that can be bent to your will if you understand the rules. If you're a zit-faced, noodly-armed, openly-Anime-loving, 4chan-roaming geekoid with a mustard-stained T-shirt on, then yes .... nobody will respect you, including women. Self-awareness is paramount. People in this rough patch think it was "ordained" by the universe on high that they will be lifelong losers. Step 1 is realizing that's not true, that you can climb out of hell. Unfortunately if you're too far up your own ass, you end up going psycho.

[–]tempolaca 13 points14 points  (11 children)

> he came from a well-off family and wasn't an ugly guy.

Rodgers was very short. He even seemed to acknowledge that as the reason close to the end. Also, obviously he was insane.

The truth is that height is a very big factor on SMV and it's only getting more so. Me, I'm median height in my country (5'9) and it's extremely hard. The few people over 6'0 here have basically no trouble getting almost any girl. I have a friend that is a CEO and have multiple other business, packed full of money, cars, etc. He's 5'5, can't get a girlfriend. I have a biker friend, tatoos, shredded, etc. about 5'3, can't get any girlfriend. When I go out with my CEO friend, guess who gets the girl? yes, I get the girl, he being a blonde blue-eyed millionarie, but I'm 10 cm taller. Yes, he doesn't have any game but after a life of rejections your game gets weaker.

Height is VERY important and if you are short it's like swimming in honey, and under certain height is basically a huge amount of work for diminishing returns and Rodgers, in his insanity, knew that.

[–]Endorsed ContributorDownvoteToDisagree[S] 6 points7 points  (2 children)

That's true re: height, probably the most influential and completely unchangeable variable for a man's SMV. However, if you give a short guy access to TRP and he uses it to get laid at least 6 times in his life, he's already beating out half the American male population.

[–]Flintblood 4 points5 points  (0 children)

And what does that say about ‘the game’ as we know it? I’m certainly over those 6 times but I am also over 30 and have had several long term relationships.

Others may look at those odds and simply decide their time is better spent doing things they enjoy on their own terms. That’s what I think the non-angry part of MGTOW is about.

[–]adool999 1 points1 points [recovered]

Not to be shitty but I'm 5'5 (and Arab) and do well for myself. In LTR with HB8. Don't think about it. Don't bring it up. Present the best image of yourself imaginable.

[–]tempolaca 2 points3 points  (2 children)

I'm also in a LTR but remember, being in a LTR is the **easiest** way to have sexual relationships. STR, plate spinning, etc. are strategies that require much more SMV (but are arguably better) and it's what TRP is all about.

[–]adool999 0 points1 point  (1 child)

In what way are short term relationships better? There is more excitement for sure. I enjoy doing jack shit with a girl watching tv all night.

[–]tempolaca 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't know if they are better, but I know a thing, you are here, so you are not "part of the general population" and you know how to workaround your limitations in height and SMV.

[–]DiamaExtra 7 points8 points  (0 children)

TRP is starting to gain some notoriety here in Italy. The thing is, when people refer to "redpillatori" (redpillers) and talk about their ideology... it is totally incel/blackpill/lookist stuff.

This is only partly because it's convenient for detractors to mix all together, but mainly because the selfproclaimed italian "redpill" outlets like forums and Facebook pages are actually incels community.

[–]demshter 6 points7 points  (2 children)

I find it interesting how society's and Media's method of dealing with these incels is to.. further humiliate and isolate them. It's insane.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

What else can they possibly say though? Sorry that we abandoned a system older than western civilization itself that guaranteed the vast majority of men an opportunity to marry in order to reorganize society to service the female imperative? Sorry that our social policies helped destroy the support structure provided by the nuclear family and communities? Sorry that we have loaded up the education system with left wing feminists who have no understanding of how to connect with young men?

To say anything else regarding incels would be to admit, at least on some level, that their entire worldview is based on a pernicious lie. Easier to blame it on guns and Trump and call it a day.

[–]demshter 1 point2 points  (0 children)

What else can they possibly say though?

literally anything that isnt going to make them more likely to kill a bunch of people. its like having a lion that kills people when its poked with a stick, and society is responding by poking that lion, with a stick.

[–]Endorsed Contributormallardcove 91 points92 points  (56 children)

I feel like MGTOW falls under the Black Pill umbrella as well. I shit on MGTOW a lot here and usually get hounded by a ton of replies and inboxes defending MGTOW and shaming anyone who thinks MGTOW sucks.

MGTOW and Incel are pretty much the same thing. Only one celebrates the fact they aren't having sex, while the other one weeps about it. That's pretty much the only difference. In terms of sexual strategy, treat it like a game. We will use baseball as an example. MGTOW's baseball strategy is not to even play. "Pfffff... I could easily make it to the major leagues, and would be an All-Star, but baseball is dumb! So I decided not to play and do other things." That's not a strategy. Incel strategy would be "I would suck at baseball, I am not good at it, I don't have any talent. Fuck my life". Again, not strategy.

TRP on the other hand, the strategy is "Here are the rules of the game and how things work. Now that you know these things, do what you can to become the best you can be at it". Using the baseball analogy, it would be "These are baseball's rules. Here is how you play. Get better so you can make it to the major leagues. Go to the batting cages, play catch, practice. It's a long road, but you will get there if you put in the effort and do things right."

That's why MGTOW and Incel are retarded. They are quitter mentalities. There is no strategy involved. TRP is about sexual strategy. Not playing the game is not a strategy.

[–]Endorsed ContributorDownvoteToDisagree[S] 75 points76 points  (40 children)

My understanding is that, for MGTOW, they believe that the juice isn't worth the squeeze. To alter your metaphor a bit, it's probably more like choosing not to play professional football because they feel that the chance of injury is too likely and too devastating to make it a worthy risk.

I think MGTOW overestimate the dangers and suffer a huge opportunity cost by not participating, but it is what it is.

[–]Endorsed Contributormallardcove 15 points16 points  (38 children)

To alter your metaphor a bit, it's probably more like choosing not to play professional football because they feel that the chance of injury is too likely and too devastating to make it a worthy risk.

On paper, that may be what MGTOW is.

But let's be real.

I'd say in reality, MGTOW is closer to guys who would fucking suck ass at football and never in a million years come close to making even a low level college football team let alone the NFL, but claim they are good enough to go pro but won't because of the injuries.

MGTOW is a rejection buffer. Men who are successful with women aren't going to walk away from it all and go MGTOW. MGTOW is simply guys who are lower SMV/lower value who use MGTOW as an excuse to get ahead of it when someone rejects them or asks why they don't have a girlfriend. "Pff... I could totally be having sex with 5 different girls every night, but fuck that! MGTOW!!!" OK.

TRP, MGTOW, Incel have overlap in some of the things they all believe, but "What are you going to do about it", TRP is the only path that has an answer for that.

[–]2kevin32 33 points34 points  (1 child)

I echo DTD's statement. For many MGTOWs, it's more about commitment than just getting laid, otherwise they'd be like the incels complaining that they're not getting any affection at all.

MGTOWs don't want to put forth the effort to find a woman in western society who likely had a promiscuous past, and who would likely divorce-rape them or branch-swing when the next taller, handsome, richer man comes along.

They're seeking long-term committed partners with a low N-count, which is difficult to find when hookup culture is prominent. This also explains to some extent why MGTOWs seek partners in less feminized societies like Asia.

To your credit, I'm sure there are incels who became MGTOWs, but again most of them just want long-term partners who won't easily leave them on a whim.

Not playing the game is not a strategy.

TRP provides the tools. Choosing not to use those tools in an environment where the risks are too high for what one wants to accomplish is also a strategy.

[–]Endorsed Contributormallardcove 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I agree commitment is the core issue, and finding a woman worthy of your commitment these days is like finding a diamond in the rough. They do exist though if you are willing to be patient. Marriage is another story, but in terms of being a solid FWB/LTR? They exist.

The problem is most men are impatient and/or suck at identifying women worthy of more than being a cum dumpster ONS or plate. It all traces back to scarcity mentality. Most men can't play the field and generate options, so they latch onto the first somewhat decent woman who shows them any sign of interest.

Men owe it to themselves to hold out for someone worthy instead of settling if they want something more long term.

I've done it both ways - I've slayed dozens of pussies via Tinder and cheap hookups, and I've had solid FWB women and a couple of LTRs. The one night stands and cheap hookups get boring after a while since they have no substance to them. The FWB/LTRs are more rewarding, but require far more patience and discipline and many men just aren't willing to do that. Hence why I can see why MGTOW might be attractive to someone who just doesn't want to have to adhere to the strict self discipline it requires to find a quality woman who is worthy of more than plate status.

[–]Diogenes-- 34 points35 points  (32 children)

I've never made any effort whatsoever to meet women, date women, talk to women, etc. I have average looks, but naturally high T has masculinized me and I'm tall (I was the product of my mother's AF phase), and I've always enjoyed lifting. Because of all this, various women have pursued me aggressively and I've turned some, but not all, of them down. Hardly sounds like a rejection buffer.

I'm MGTOW because to me, TRP is like "OK, here's how you handle nuclear waste." <1500 page manual, hazmat suit, and it's still dangerous even with all the precautions>

Whereas MGTOW is like, "Why the fuck would you handle nuclear waste?"

Granted I was raised by the most vile, evil feminists you can imagine. My mother extensively molested me when I was a young child, and my grandmother's abuse was much more damaging. So maybe I'm overestimating the danger, but on the other hand, we have federal US laws that punish innocent men (VAWA, Title IX), and I'm sure most of you know the divorce and suicide statistics, so maybe most of you are underestimating the danger.

I'll grant that MGTOW doesn't offer as much of a path forward. One does exist, but it's something most MGTOW wouldn't agree with - the path of the monk. True, voluntary celibacy. Without masturbation, dolls, or even thoughts about sex. It's what I'm pursuing.

And other MGTOW are starting to venture down, if not the monk path, at least some other avenues. Sandman's 'Traveling My Own Way' series, for example. And I've seen a lot of posts lately on MGTOW about things other than women being shit, such as pictures guys have taken while exploring mother nature, pics of their motorcycles and home entertainment systems, conversations about cooking, etc.

With that being said, do your thing. You wanna fuck women, go for it and I wish you well. I hope you break their shriveled black hearts and alpha-widow the hell out of them =) I don't like the animosity between our communities. Feminism is destroying our world because, no matter what a woman does, no other woman will ever criticize her. "Kill all men!", and the women who don't feel that way say nothing. Meanwhile we bicker amongst ourselves and it's why we're losing.

[–]0mnipath 10 points11 points  (19 children)

I share your views on MGTOW and the monk path. Meditation, pursuit of knowledge and virtues can be completely life encompassing for me in a way just "getting chicks" can never be. I realized that what I usually want from relationships with women is practically base and selfish - I want to receive care and physical affection while not having to contend with their priorities because they seem completely inane to me. I realized that this model is simply not sustainable. I don't want to be tricking anybody, using them or convincing them to give me what I want just because I want it. I want to be engaging in genuine relationships, where people participate and collaborate out of their own volition.

Maybe I just haven't met the right woman, maybe I haven't developed myself into a good man, maybe I'm too idealistic. I stay open minded and friendly towards all new people in my life until they convince me to not want to interact with them. But I am not going to adjust my whole view and priorities, literally WORK on trying to get some tail or to convince some girl to put out. To me it's a waste of time, the return on investment is simply not worth the effort for me. Especially while there are so many other things that need to be taken care of, demand my attention, focus and time.

I also don't understand the end game of TRP. Even the chaddiest of chads report the impossibility of holding frame indefinitely. It's a losing game so whatever tools TRP gives can only provide temporary and sporadic success. Once again, that's not sustainable.

I understand there are way too many circumstances/factors even on individual level to ever develop a decisive set of tenets in MGTOW but I think the unifying theme of simply not wanting to deal with nuclear waste is the universality that brought the movement into existence. Even if a woman comes to you completely out of her own will and serves herself on a platter, you know there will be a hefty price to pay one way or another - a harmonious outcome of relationships with women has simply become incredibly rare. Something will need to drastically change in society or soon women will be out of favour to a point of crisis. I guess it will happen eventually one way or another, the system will self correct. It just might take a long time.

[–]chinese-bible 7 points8 points  (5 children)

Sounds like you have serious issues stemming from childhood molestation.

You might even be asexual, which is perfectly fine.

Still, Jesus.

Fucking a woman does not require a hazmat suit. Really, it doesn't.

[–]Diogenes-- 3 points4 points  (4 children)

I definitely have issues due to the abuse, yeah. It's why I never wanted to be near women.

Definitely not asexual. I've been trying nofap for about 5 years now and I'm getting a bit better with it, but even in middle age my libido hasn't dropped a bit. If anything I'm in the best shape of my life currently and the more serious lifting I've been doing lately has raised it.

I didn't mean a literal hazmat suit, although given how over half of some demographics of women have herpes, and how there's a new antibiotic-immune form of gonorrhea out there, it might not be a bad idea lol.

I meant more like all the dangers involved. You spend time and money, you might not get tail. If you do get tail, she might decide that it was rape if you lasted less than a half hour or if your dick's smaller than a baseball bat. Women can never be happy, and more, bigger & better is never good enough for them. And the minute she points her finger, you are fucked. "Innocent until proven guilty" is a thing of the past thanks to #MeToo and Title IX.

Then there's common law marriage, which can be ambiguous (gives judges more power to extract your wealth). In some cases you can be dating a girl for 6-12 months, never marrying, not living together, not sharing finances - and she can still 'divorce' you and take half your shit. I think that just became a thing in Canada, but it's due to feminism which has infected the entire western world so you have to be careful everywhere.

Then there's her 7'5" boyfriends (yes that's plural) who might have just gotten out of jail and are headed over for some tail with 4 guns in their waistband and 3 chips on their shoulder. You don't wanna be there when he arrives, but how can you know?

And so much other bullshit. 6 hours a day of "That bitch I work with said blah blah!" Crying for no reason. Etc. It's like babysitting a 10 year old. Fuck that. Juice ain't worth the squeeze.

[–]chinese-bible 5 points6 points  (2 children)

might decide that it was rape if you lasted less than a half hour or if your dick's smaller than a baseball bat

In practice this is exceedingly rare. The only realm of possibility where you need to have legit fears is if the woman is a mortal enemy (then why fuck her?) or you're very outwardly wealthy, or a celebrity.

I think there was a huge dose of skepticism when the "Aziz" story broke and most people thought that was ridiculous. Also, the only reason it happened was because he was a celebrity (lady was deluded) and the only consequence affected his celebrity (his TV show might have more trouble now? Maybe?).

To never have sex again due to fear of rape charges is laughable. It's also sad; it's letting the feminists win.

In some cases you can be dating a girl for 6-12 months, never marrying, not living together, not sharing finances - and she can still 'divorce' you and take half your shit.

This never happened, ever. The common law marriage requires something like 5+ years and living together, and even that without that certificate, it's a toughie. And fucking a woman =/= living together.

Then there's her 7'5" boyfriends (yes that's plural) who might have just gotten out of jail

Dude you're certifiably insane. Yeah and what if a time machine sends a T-rex outside in your backyard one day? I suppose you should never leave the house? These are crackpot theories ...

Look human relationships are messy but it's quite easy to drop a few loads and just walk away. None of the last 6 girls I've fucked said anything about any "bitch" at work ... nor did any cry. A lot of that depends on you. Some guys fall into the role of babysitter. Others? They do their thing, if you want to come along girl, you follow me, let me dump loads in you until I get bored ...

I think you're coming up with too many stereotypes ....

[–]Diogenes-- 3 points4 points  (1 child)

I hear you, and you're probably right. But for me, all those things are tertiary reasons to avoid them. The primary one is the severity of the sexual abuse. I've never felt remotely comfortable near women. If I could choose to be gay I probably would. The secondary one is that I have (professionally diagnosed) asperger's, meaning my ability to read people is poor. So it makes sense for me to highlight the risks in my mind, since I'm more at risk of them.

Feel free to disagree with this, I'm not trying to preach or saying this is the case for everyone - but I truly believe all the religions saying for thousands of years that true celibacy = godhood are right. I'd rather have that than climb the mountains that exist between women and me, given my unique circumstances. It's been nearly 20 years and I'm happier than I've ever been in my life, if I never fuck another woman it doesn't bother me. And I like doing my small part to ensure they end up drunk and on prozac / xanax just like my bitch mother, and smothering their cats. To hell with them all. Every time one of them tries to get my attention when I'm in town, I completely ignore them and fantasize about them going home and crying about their lightspeed impact with the wall - and in a liberal area like mine, it is indeed lightspeed, and usually by 25 at the latest lol. It's like every mile of dick ages them an extra year. Ignoring them makes me happier than sex would.

Edit: Btw, bit off-topic - autism spectrum stuff is quite obviously the result of infant neglect. This sub is well aware of womens' decreased ability to pair bond as their notch count goes up. I think it's their ability to bond with anyone, at all, which disappears - not just their ability to bond with future sexual partners. So they can't bond with their own children, and neglect them to go out and get more dick. Little surprise autism has gone up right along with the sexual revolution and women having such high notch counts.

[–]purplecabbage 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Interesting last paragraph there. Never heard that as a theory posited before. I read all your comments here; sorry you had to endure all that. Choose what makes you happy.

[–]fdsafdasfdsafds 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This mirrors exactly my own thoughts.

My brother is voluntarily celibate at the minute and is also a virgin. He's dedicated to learning and shaking off the cultural shackles. I can tell he is still BP when it comes to women, but he's definitely come to the realisation that sensual pleasure is not where sustainable satisfaction lies - he's found sustainable satisfaction from meditation.

..and when you come to realise that women don't offer anything to a man who is complete and content, why exactly would you pursue them? To get your rocks off? That gets boring pretty quickly. We already know they are not capable of loyalty or commitment. I just don't see where they fit apart from being the mothers of our children. And that's the biggest challenge for us - we HAVE to choose, from this nuclear waste, who to raise children with or die out within a generation.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'll grant that MGTOW doesn't offer as much of a path forward. One does exist, but it's something most MGTOW wouldn't agree with - the path of the monk. True, voluntary celibacy. Without masturbation, dolls, or even thoughts about sex. It's what I'm pursuing.

Just as long as you don't confuse enlightenment with abstaining from orgasms. It might have some small benefit, but silence, non-dual devotion, and bliss are far more important. I own fleshlights and onaholes, and still walk around in samadhi.

[–]Endorsed Contributormallardcove 4 points5 points  (3 children)

Nuclear Waste

Bad analogy. More like, women with red flags are nuclear waste. Makes sense not to touch them.

AWALT. But, if you do things right, take care of yourself and take the right precautions and avoid bad decisions(i.e. marriage), then if you vet women properly you can find women that are worth the risk of fucking/plating/FWB'ing/LTRing.

A better analogy would be that women are a minefield, and TRP gives you the map to navigate the minefield. If you step on a mine and get blown up, its your own fault, because you had the map and instructions on what to do to not get blown up.

But, the answer to your question:

"Why the fuck would you handle nuclear waste?"

Because men are hardwired to have sexual needs that need to be satisfied, and most of us don't want to relieve those needs with our hand. It's tough to defeat biology.

[–]Mach2Machiavellian 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Yup. I couldn’t for a second imagine life without sex. And there are lots of amazing (in all respects) women out there among the bad ones.

Life can be downright transcendent when you find someone good.

[–]Endorsed Contributormallardcove 5 points6 points  (1 child)

No doubt. There are amazing women out there, but it also really tests your mettle in terms of adhering to TRP.

It's one thing to have oneitis when you are a chump beta with no TRP knowledge. That's nothing. Try fighting the onset of oneitis when you have waded through tons and tons of shit(i.e. single moms, fatties, tattoo'ed and pierced, daddy issues, mudsharking, attention whoring, and countless other red flags) and actually find a girl who has none of those things and actually seems normal and quality. That's when the true tests of TRP come into play. It tests your mettle, strength and resolve. Because when you finally do find someone quality who isn't just cum dumpster ONS or low level plate material, it's so easy to think to yourself "OK I need to treat this one different" and you have to fight the urge to pedestalize her and become outcome dependent.

AWALT. TRP exists for a reason. But it can be very tempting to deviate from it when you find a quality woman and think to yourself "TRP won't work on this girl, she is too good". Always resist that temptation. But, it won't be easy.

[–]Mach2Machiavellian 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I get what you’re saying, but there’s a difference between appreciating/loving vs. pedestalizing a woman. The former is recognition of an awesome and mutual thing you’ve got, while still keeping your wits about you enough to not get played in some way. It’s a delicate balance to strike, and essential to it is making sure the woman is at least as into you as you are into her.

Pedestalizing, on the other hand, is falling for a fantasy idea of a woman as pure and incorruptibly good, to a degree where you (a) allow her to take you for granted and (b) blind yourself to potential signs she could betray or hurt you.

You talk about experience – ironically enough, my experience with women all along the good-bad spectrum has allowed me to fine tune my perception of when something is right and, most of all, safe to fully embrace. But it’s been literally decades in the making.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It seems that most of the manosphere groups come to similar conclusions about the nature of women and our society. The difference is what they choose to do with that information.

[–]fdsafdasfdsafds 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Interesting. This is exactly how I feel after 3 years deep into TRP after de-pedestalising chicks and coming to the conclusion they are not the angels I was led to believe they were.. that they can not even offer loyalty or commitment.. and so why would I emotionally invest in them over the long-term?

Seems to me that leads nowhere but perpetual plate-spinning, of which I've become increasingly jaded with. Only option is to just forget about them - which I mostly do now and get on with my own stuff and couldn't be happier.

Dunno. I'm still a little fluid in my position. I guess I'm still feeling them out and determining exactly where they stand in my life given the facts of nature.

As you say:

overestimate the dangers

Of what? Short-term commitment or long-term commitment? What is the opportunity cost? Even if I had 12 supermodels blowing me every day I still wouldn't consider any amount of effort worth it in the end... it's inconsequential pleasure that amounts to nothing.

[–]AllahHatesFags 9 points10 points  (1 child)

The way I see it is this:

Fact: 20% of men, the Chads, get 80% of the women.

Blue Pillers deny this fact and believe in a reality that doesn't exist and then end up either not getting laid or getting cucked and divorce-raped.

Red Pillers accept this fact and say "Well, I'm best off being a Chad, TO THE GYM!"

MGTOW accepts this fact and say "These hoes aren't worth the effort it takes to be a top 20% Chad, I'd rather just jerk-off to porn or get a sex bot."

Incels/Black Pillers accept this fact and say "I can never be Chad no matter what I do so why bother trying? Fuck my life, fuck everybody else too!"

[–]1Original_Dankster 3 points4 points  (0 children)


MGTOW stoicly accept self imposed celibacy with a smile.

Incels impotently rage about it.

[–]Endorsed Contributorsadomasochrist 7 points8 points  (0 children)

MGTOWs are Rollos observation of buffers. Basically "you can't fire me, I quit."

[–]Sideshow27 6 points7 points  (2 children)

I think a lot of MGTOW guys will evolve into incels or vice versa. A lot of incels I’ve encountered don’t even care about not being able to get laid anymore, many are past that point now.

[–]1Original_Dankster 6 points7 points  (1 child)

A lot of TRP men eventually evolve into MGTOW, particularly when they hit middle age.

A few MGTOW migrate to TRP and start spinning plates (myself included)

Some Incels become MGTOW (and are much better off for it psychologically).

In a about two years active in the MGTOW forums I have never encountered a single MGTOW who later started identifying with the incel community...

[–]alexclarkbarry 1 point2 points  (0 children)

At first I never understood MGTOW till I watched DragonBallZ. Say what you will about anime shows but Vegeta is MGTOW, the path of the lone warrior. He only cares about his mission, increasing his power.

[–]celincelin 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It's a long road, but you will get there if you put in the effort and do things right.

Just world fallacy, TRP loves it indeed.

The truth is, in addition to the simple fact that you won’t get anywhere if you don’t even try, you also won’t get there if you don’t have talent, be it baseball or anything else worth pursuing.

[–]ChewableNazi 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Nicely put!

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I think you are mischaracterizing Incels a bit here. Incels don't immediately give up, but rather only after dozens of rejections despite the fact that they had done all what society claims will make women attracted to you. They then come to the realization that all of that was bullshit in the first place and the reason for their failures was that they didn't meet the minimum threshold for attractiveness that women require. It is yet to be determined though if they will have success by applying some of the game theory that TRP advocates despite their looks.

[–]1Original_Dankster 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Using another handle, years ago I was a mod on one of the most active MGTOW forums. (I came to TRP and game after being a MGTOW for a few years and got fit and attractive over that time.)

I'd say of the thousand of posters I encountered and hundreds I became familiar with, about 75% were overall pretty happy with their decision to adopt the lifestyle and lived better lives.

"We will use knitting as an example. Mallardcove's knitting strategy is not to even play. "Pfffff... I could easily make a lovely sweater for granny but knitting is dumb! So I decided not to knit and do other things."

The point is, just because you find something important (e.g. sex, women, game) doesn't mean those things are actually important. MGTOW aren't all just sour grapes quitters, rather most just value different things than you do. Just as you can't be shamed for not wanting to take up knitting, they can't be shamed for passing up on game.

And many are far more stoic than you seem to be.

[–]IntrovertedMagma 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I feel most men who pursue game have nothing going on in their lives other than pussy.. yeah pussy is good but do you want it to be the center of your life??

It is not a healthy way to live. Mgtow offers a solution to make your life more balanced.. I have tried the meaningless sex phase and it made me depressed. I chased pussy just for the sake of pussy and didn't feel anything good after each hookup.

There are far more interesting things in life you can pursue that can actually make you a proud man.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I appreciate this comment. I'm lucky enough genetically to look good in my mid forties..... yeah, I'm lifting heavy.... so I have a couple plates... if I was less lucky, MGTOW vs. LTR would be a hard choice. For a lot of guys, that's what it comes down to, in my opinion. Plenty of guys who stand no chance in the casual sex market could still get a girlfriend.

[–][deleted] 22 points23 points  (15 children)

Today's women are useless whores. How will you respond?

  • Incels - Give up. You lost the genetic lottery.
  • MGTOW - Give up. The juice ain't worth the squeeze.
  • Redpill - Give up. Become a whore monger.

If the goal is finding a wife to be the faithful mother of your children, then actually it is the Incels who are the only ones discussing a real solution because they are the only ones talking about a revolution to bring back enforced patriarchy. Redpill's only answer to this problem is to run constant dread game under a matriarchal system and hope for the best. Banging whores is easy once you get your game on point, but stop kidding yourselves, you've also given up on having what you really want.

[–]Flintblood 9 points10 points  (11 children)

TRP and PUA dancing monkeys deny they are in denial of this. They are still adopting actions to perform ‘for women’ like blue pill men. They are performing for them - doing game and fashion things because they believe that women like those things and will reward them for playing that part. Maybe they do, and maybe they don’t sometimes. I truly believe it’s probably more of a numbers game.

You can still build a better you by working out, learning and growing status - without playing ‘the game’. Have you ever read supposed TRP and PUA dating advice sites? It’s all about doing things the woman’s way, to please some would-be date.

[–]fdsafdasfdsafds 5 points6 points  (1 child)

After a couple of years here I took a 6 month break when I landed in Thailand. Came back recently and realised exactly this "for women" attitude you mention. I didn't even see it before. Was mainly because I went MGTOW for a while and started a business and simply don't have time for them.

Now understand they have almost no value to my life. I read a lot of posts here and think "but why bother?".. why all of this study and analysis? It leads to nought. Look after yourself and your loved ones, do what you love and go live a fulfilling life, stop depending on women for anything. You don't need them.

The only thing we need women for are to raise children.. and I think that is one of the most difficult challenges we face. Like it or not, if good, strong men don't stand up and choose from these "useless whores" which ones will become mothers, then we leave it up to BPers and carry on the destructive trend of weak men raising weak men.

[–]Flintblood 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Well written brother. I’m really surprised your reply doesn’t have more upvotes.

Which I like women. I have a lot of cool female friends. They are not my best friends, but I still consider them my equal peers and friends, but I let my actions and my efforts speak to my worth as a person, and I mainly listen to myself and those closest to me when it comes to feedback regarding my virtues.

The number one misconception about “men going their own way” is that they must ‘hate women’. I don’t hate them. I simply don’t build my life around seeking their approval for self validation. How I take their thoughts on how I should dress and act are tempered with my own indifference towards their approval.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

When someone raises the red pill flag in revolt and calls for loyal followers to flock to the banner, I’ll be the first one there if there’s a chance of success. Doesn’t seem very realistic though does it? I guess getting laid is the only option in the meantime.

There are no examples of a civilization returning to a more sexually conservative or patriarchal state once abandoned. Pandora’s box is opened.

[–]Endorsed Contributorsadomasochrist 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You don't give up on fantasies you adjust your expectations.

[–]ben1324 18 points19 points  (8 children)

The only thing I agree with black pill with more than this sub, is the importance of looks. Not just lifting and styling looks, but your genetics. I believe the structure of your face place a huge role in attractiveness.

[–]Endorsed Contributormallardcove 34 points35 points  (2 children)

It absolutely matters but sometimes you have to play the hand you were dealt. Whining and complaining about it isn't a strategy.

So you are a 5'5 short fat Indian? Lose weight and then become the best 5'5 Indian you can be and let the chips fall where they may.

[–]1empatheticapathetic 0 points1 point  (0 children)

And if they don’t fall anywhere then embrace the black pill.

[–]Mach2Machiavellian 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Black Pill thinking doesn’t just say looks are important, it says they are the only thing that matters, and are fundamentally immutable.

I think everyone would agree that looks are important. But as a person who has both improved his looks since young adulthood and seen how different behaviors result in different outcomes (even with the same looks), I know from personal experience that a guy can always improve his odds.

That is, assuming he’s willing to work at it, rather than just taking his little ball and going home in a huff.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (3 children)

There is a difference between "Looks are important, but not the end all be all" and "Looks are everything". Incels deny the fact that game, confidence, charisma, humour frame etc does anything at all and say "if you are below 8/10 it is over"

[–]atheist_terry_jones 3 points4 points  (0 children)

they do not deny that. its marginal though, and not everyone has the baseline requirements.

[–]Guardian_of_Justice 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Probably they say "if you are below 2/10 it is over". Which is actually true. Would you date/fuck a 1/10 woman if you had other options? I HIGHLY doubt. Don't make incels crazy idiots, they are just very unlucky men. And their rage is easily understandable.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

They have literally said it is over for below 8/10 guys

[–]Black_m0ngoose 5 points6 points  (3 children)

Anger is the poison you drink to kill your enemies.

A man who surrenders to his anger surrenders his will to succeed. To succeed- you must push past the anger.

Anger at the world- anger at yourself for being so foolish.

You cannot change the past- you can only change the present.

Do not allow yourself to be infected by the pessimistic nature of the world.

To be redpilled is to see how stacked the odds are against you, and to push through with a smile regardless.

Success is not sustainable if you cannot achieve it through overcoming adversity. It takes just as much energy to be blackpilled as it does to be redpilled.

[–]Guardian_of_Justice 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Even after you accept the world and your mistakes. Doesn't it really hurt you sometimes that YOU had to walk the road of hardship, misery and anger while someone has it at his fingertips? I bet it will even hurt you when you are completely happy and achieved your TRP and self goals. We are all blackpillers to some degree.

[–]fdsafdasfdsafds 5 points6 points  (1 child)

  1. Improvement and success

..quickly followed by indulgence, being jaded and de-pedestalising -- "this is what all the fuss is about? An unreliable person with a pussy who offers no long-term gain whatsoever? This is what I'm going to invest my life and future into?".. hopefully, then followed by NEXT.

I've found it very difficult to not fall into MGTOW after seeing the stake of truth battered into my heart again and again. Women, in their current state, offer nothing but pussy.. and pussy is overrated. I'm not 16 any more. Couldn't care less about a wet hole.

She doesn't go to the gym for me, doesn't develop my career for me, doesn't build my business for me, doesn't provide loyalty or commitment. I don't need to be mothered; can cook and clean for myself, and I have many people I would rather turn to for intellectual stimulation. So exactly what are women providing apart from over-valued pussy? Kids.. mother of my children.. that's about it. But without loyalty or commitment that's too much of a risk on the poor souls that come out of her vagina.

Hard to not completely drop them when you realise this.

[–]1Entropy-7 5 points6 points  (4 children)

I really don't get so-called "black pillers".

Just how bad is the reality you live in?

Life is a gift and I enjoy every day.

If you feel unloved then look in the fucking mirror.

[–]redd_reality 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Don't know if it's in light of the recent terror attack in Toronto by an apperently incel, but I've noticed a lot more malevolent looks from low value men directed at me than ever before.

I'm not some 9 Chad, but I am decent looking, built like a bull reasonably lean.

But I see these looks seemingly everywhere I go. I either get respectful nods from other men, or I get glares from low value punks. Nothing could be more pathetic imo, then seeing a fellow community member and being pissed they've put in more work than you and carry themselves with a healthy amount of self esteem.

I have no respect for losers who remain bitter and stay losers. By God, do something about your state if you're unhappy.

[–]itsjustsimon- 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Incels are redpilled men in a crab bucket.

[–]blackedoutfast 3 points4 points  (0 children)

all the incel blackpill bullshit is the complete opposite of the redpill.

incels are worse than bluepill betas. the BPers are idiots but at least they're trying something. incels just want to wallow in their own self-pity and make excuses. that mindset is cancer and it shouldn't be tolerated here at all.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Disappointed when I read the post. I thought the black pill would be the dark triad ... not a bunch of incels!!

Lack of redpill fathers or of fathers in general in kids lives is a major determinative factor is failing to adjust to life in a healthy way. Kids need dads.

[–]iCeeYouP 2 points3 points  (1 child)

This is a gross overgeneralize of what it means to acknowledge that looks matter(i.e. "Blackpill") Guys who refuse to understand this are worse than bluepillers who don't want to hear about the true nature of women. But all three of these pills have a common trait of being delusional.

Blue Pill: Sees 0% of what women are and refuses to do so.

Red Pill: 100% understand self-improvement and works to understand women, but refuses to acknowledge facial aesthetics play a huge role.

Black pill: Same as red pill,accept in the process of understanding looks matter, they refuse to look past that fact.

Game is enabled by looks, whether the community here wants to acknowledge it or not. "Look don't matter as much" is a parroted myth in the community that needs to die out. It's a fallacy that only succeeds to produce more violent Mike Laskowski-esce incels, who studied every nook and cranny of "How to be scary" only to come up short when it's time for the scare-test.(Monsters University for anyone interested in understanding my example) Women are as visual, if not MORE SO, than men. And while I'm debunking "Looks don't matter", let's get to "Chad". Chad isn't a mindset, he is the physical manifestation of physical attractiveness. His habits, i.e. "Confidence/Habits of treating women like shit/ etc." is a byproduct of his success with women, not the other way around. Chad trumps your hard-worked for body, your snazzy fashion sense, your personality, and your financial stability/excess. Not to say game isn't real, but looks are what ENABLE you to run game. Much like you wouldn't fall for the advances of some fat ugly chick. Looks matter a lot, but they come in two categories imo: Biological Looks: Facial Aesthetics, height, race, etc. Artificial looks: Fashion style, hair style, etc.

-Focus on what you can change, but do not forget what terrain(face) you're working with, so adjust accordingly. -

Edit: Formatting

[–]Mach2Machiavellian 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Some TRP posters/commenters can lean toward incel thinking with their negativity (perhaps just going through the anger phase), and these are the parts of this community I don’t like. This is where some of TRP’s misogynistic dark side can peek through, because in general men who have success with women don’t go on rants about how wicked and awful they are.

I come here for the useful bits. The constructive strategy, the tips for self-improvement, be it sexual or otherwise. I want absolutely nothing to do with the bleakness and nihilism of the Black Pill mindset, even if it comes dressed in red.

[–]Arabian_Wolf 2 points3 points  (1 child)

What do you call a pill that makes one awaken to their own family dynamic, gets angry about being lied to and getting unfair treatment in every aspects (emotionally and financially etc)? Caused by a domineering mother, psycho older sibling and enabling father.

It also made me to self-improve like never before, through lifting compound lifts, and reading quality books by Robert Greene, Nassim Taleb and others.

[–]GodOfDinosaurs 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Incels would often caption their posts with the phrase "it's over". You're liable to get banned for expressing that sentiment here.

[–]Freedom2speech 2 points3 points  (0 children)

So 6 sexual partners in a lifetime is the median?

[–]jesussexyabs 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I have to say I am so extremely impressed with this post. I think it helps move the conversation forward in a new direction.

[–]HarrySach69 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Amen brother. What really gets me is though is how TRP community is suddenly coming under fire from the media...

[–]Bergatario 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I went from having a couple of long terms girlfriends in school, to banging chicks every night just by starting to work as a bartender /cocktail waiter in a Segnor Frogs style restaurant in a party town. I'm average looking and never had a problem getting girls just because I talked to all of them, played the numbers game and escalated pretty quickly. Alcohol helps! I'm now happily married and happy to be out of the game, but I do remember the dramatic jump from high school to a pussy parade just by getting that job. So the moral of the story is, if you want to be a fisherman, you have to go where the fish are and put your rod in, many, many times until they bite!

[–]n0oo7 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Fuck ,15 partners at the top 20% I lost my virginity at 18 and had like bedded over 30 girls in four years from than. I thought I was bottom 20%

[–]Andgelyo 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Jesus Christ an average man only has 6 partners in his life? Wow, I’m more than double that number at 27 (it could’ve been a lot higher if I focused more). Imagine dudes who are already in like high 20s and above lol the more partners you have the more likely you will catch an STD though which is why I am very selective and even trying to obtain an LTR now

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think that to talk SMV we have to acknowledge RMV, at least occasionally, for guys who'll never cut it in the SMP. I think it's a mistake to conflate the 2, although of course there is overlap. Some men who have no chance in the SMP might still be a useful enough idiot for LTR's. Whether or not it's worth it to play by women's rules rather than being an incel is not up to me to decide.

I'm purposely lowering my RMV. Fuck LTR's, although MLTR's are fine.

Great post.

[–]lifeisweirdasfuck 1 point2 points  (0 children)

e.g lookism and those forums full of retards

[–]Ezaar 1 point2 points  (0 children)

At least this offers avenues for self improvement. You can not deny that aspect as an incredibly fulfilling avenue for an individual.

The goals for the individual are to be determined by the individual, but there’s so much more that I get out of this than just learning how to game. But I can get some good insight into game while I am here.

Praise the Austrian oak.

[–]SkyloRen66[🍰] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

At least in MGTOW, the black pillers are vile and miserable fucks that truly hate women and society. It can get quite toxic over there tbh

[–]natman2939 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This actually makes perfect sense. Incels almost always have some type of mental or emotional problem that makes them so introverted that they can't stand to talk to people anyway. So because of their own ridiculousness they never had a chance and won't try anything (or should I say they never have a chance because they won't try anything)

[–]drkinferno72 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Shit I have aspergers and have managed to get a few gfs. Just sucked when starting out that people have to tell you that girls liked you and you didn't "pick up the signals"

[–]redvelvet_oreo 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Since I became TRP aware its amazed me how many people deny game or just hate it. Alot of people on this sub give game a bad name as well which I will never understand. Learning game (still working on it) has converted me from introvert to extrovert. Game dosen't just work on women it works on everybody if you use it properly and to be honest it can make you really happy. Gaming really made me more socially aware and made me realize how people perceived me when I was introverted. I have made a ton of new friends who are awesome because of it and I have banged a few chicks in one year and found my self in a decent LTR since TRP. Before my batting average was 1 chick a year and could not hold an LTR for more then 30 days....sometimes less. Not to mention im below average 5'5, balding. Lifting has helped with this alot but game has also made people see me in a different light as well. You can easily go from that creepy weird guy to that cool outgoing dude that everyone likes. Like everything it all about how much work you decide to put into it. If you quit after the first rejection you will never make it.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The average 50th percentile dude doesn't bang more than 6 woman. That doesn't seem right, is it long term partners or something?

[–]RedwallAllratuRatbar 1 point2 points  (0 children)

For a blackpill blogger, go see Aaron Sleazy. Guy basically says that he is handsome and can put some serious chicks, and that PUA and any techniques are irrelevant.

Following him for a year made me incel (All those notches I pulled before? It was before I was good looking and only that! So I can just be nice and sweet and get girls. NOPE)

[–]atheist_terry_jones 1 point2 points  (0 children)

over for truecels, many of us incels went through a redpill phase. for some of us it is absolutely hopelessly over. if youre a normal looking guy life is easy by comparison.

[–]wheresMYsteakAt 0 points1 point  (2 children)

There is no way a top twenty percent man is averaging 15 in a lifetime, I don't care what the study says.. It would be closer to 15 by 12th grade or college. I have a hard time even believing the 6 stat as far as "the average guy" . My cousin is an incel and he's got that number beat and I mean he is the definition of a blue pill beta (paying girls rent while they LJBF them, crying on the phone, text bombing, etc).

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

You think the top 20% of men have banged 15 women by the time they leave high school? That’s absurd.

[–]BobLordOfTheCows 0 points1 point  (0 children)

When does the green pill come out?

Seriously, there's just red and blue. Everything else falls within a step from one of those two.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Incels are fucking posers, /u/DownvoteToDisagree. They don't know what the REAL black pill is. Its not a rap pill! Its not a punk pill! Its not a funk pill!




[–]TempleOfIron 0 points1 point  (2 children)

In my opinion, it's not really Red Pill to base your success on chasing pussy. Yet, you say that here and you'll be downvoted into oblivion. The truth hurts I suppose.

I take the approach of, build it and they will come. Simply put if you focus on lifting for yourself. Building a career for yourself. Really focusing on what makes you happy. They will seek you out. You don't have to base everything in terms of seeking female approval. That's very gynocentric. There's a reason why women are addicted to indifferent men. Because they have more going on than just focusing on chasing pussy.

Building yourself up for pussy is a fool's errand. Because getting pussy is really actually fucking easy. This is where most men who swallow the red pill get stuck. And once you do get women. What does your life become? That's why your legacy is most important. Which evidently women find attractive. Does the Red Pill help? Of course, but again it's much better to build yourself up than focus on bitches.

Majority of red pillers aren't red pill. They may be red pill aware but they back track incredibly. Because why would a man who knew the truth of female nature ever cohabitate or marry one? My criticism lies with the likes of Red Pill Married. I mean just lol. They took the red pill to become better dildos for their wives whilst he hopes to god she doesn't divorce rape him. Or the overwhelming amount of men who come to askTRP for advice on their failing LTR. And just lol at Red Pill women.

The way I see it. The Red Pill has a majority of idealists amongst true bachelors. And whilst they mock incels for adhering to black pill traits, they are still plugged in themselves.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Again, women are a lagging indicator. TRP has its roots in PUA which has its roots in evolutionary psychology. There's a damned good case to be made that a major motivator for greatness in men is getting that sweet pussy payoff.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Isn’t there a Dave Chappelle bit on this? If women would fuck us on cardboard boxes there’d be no houses.

[–]oldrunnerguy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

A lot of us in the manosphere can feel justified in our anger towards women and the SMP. It all is a matter of how you channel that anger. The key is improvement without expectation from others (especially women). The person whose opinion that is most important to you is yourself. If you learn to channel your anger to improve yourself for the one person that matters, you, then you can take pride on what you accomplish on your own. When you have that sense of pride and accomplishment inwardly, no one can take that away from you. Otherwise, if you don't focus on yourself, you will live a life of frustration, and this won't matter whether you have a woman in your life or not.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Because we have so many incels/betas here (myself included) it makes looking for decent content quite hard. when i first started frequenting here, it's still been a few years but everything is slowly digesting.

The anger stage utterly destroyed me and a lot of friendships, maybe i will redeem myself but lads...be careful as you can become a piece of shit quite easily.

give love to the women, fuck that bitch, dont do anything that gets yourself arrested.

stoic mind lads, quit the beta behaviour and fight for your future

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