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I’m in the process of opening a brick and mortar store in my town & we’ve recently been informed that there is some government funding available for new machinery and capital expenditure (cap ex). There is around £15-25k of free money on the table with this grant, which corresponds to 30-50% of our cap ex. So it’s a nice chunk of free money to invest.

Today we finalised all the documentation and it was submitted. Early in the afternoon I received a call from the team who conduct due diligence to make sure we’re not lying about what we want to do etc.

Due to the bank holiday on Monday next week. They are having trouble getting all their work done (it’s always the final weekend in May) and so might not be able to approve our application before we purchase the equipment needed. One of the clauses is that they can’t fund something which has already been paid for.

As we have a fixed opening date in 2 weeks. We need approval in 10 days. So there is the potential to get nothing. It could be easy for me to lose frame here and push back the opening date or beg they do everything they can to help us.

I get a phone call from the person responsible from dealing with my application.

Hi, i’m X from the Local Government (LC) I’m due to review your app for the cap ex. I’m really struggling to see where we can fit you in for a site visit and then I need to complete a report for you. The earliest we could do really is the 2 weeks time. Then it will be a few days more for approval. “

Me : I was made aware that you would be meeting on the 4th for approval/review of my application.

X: Well due to the bank holiday, it’s really thrown out our work schedule.

Me: Silence. (5-10 seconds)

X: Well I don’t know when I could fit you in. The report I need to do takes 2 days, plus a half a day site visit. I’m already meeting other clients. It will really be a push to get it all done by Thursday.

Me: I was informed by my liaison officer that we are solid case with an almost a guaranteed chance of success.

X: Well yes, but you see I have meetings and other applications to look at.

Me: Silence. (5-10 seconds)

X: Ok, well I can come see you on Tuesday and then get the report done on Wednesday to be emailed out on for review Thursday. Before we meet as a panel on Monday (4th).

Me: Excellent, I look forward to showing you the business we do.

End call.

Conclusion; Use silence as a tool to get what you want. Most people hate silence and want to fill it as soon as there is a void. Let them fill it and do what you want them to do. If you can’t keep your mouth shut for 5-10 seconds after someone has spoken, then your frame needs work.

TL:DR; Keep your mouth shut and let people defeat themselves. Use the minimum amount of words possible to express your point. Most people will submit if you just stay silent. Even a short period of silence can be effective.


[–]187oddfuture 107 points108 points  (4 children)

You're on some Lyndon B. Johnson level manipulation and I fucking love it. Good advice!

[–]Isbjornsolo[S] 7 points8 points  (3 children)

Never read anything on Pres. Johnson. Just bought his biography. Thanks for the info.

[–]187oddfuture 29 points30 points  (2 children)

Yeah he gets a weird rap. Ultimately he’s known as one of the most manipulative presidents ever because whenever a staffer or cabinet member told him no, or made some excuse, he’d just stand over them, look down, and ask again.(he was really tall) worked every time. Motherfucker had FRAME

[–]kalashnick[🍰] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah. "The Johnson Treatment" it was called.

[–]DeChef2 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Just finished APUSH, apparently he had a rep for standing super close to people and breathing down on them.

[–]uebermacht 59 points60 points  (8 children)

Good reminder!
Law 4: Always Say Less than Necessary
Silence is Golden

[–]Geckobird 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Law 4 was one of those things I subconsciously understood at a very young age, and it’s gotten me out of so much trouble and turned me into a smart, sneaky bastard.

[–]maheeprg 0 points1 point  (6 children)

Could you provide a reference to these laws.

[–]DrHolz 19 points20 points  (0 children)

Read the book 48 laws of power. It's an absolute essential in TRP learning

[–]AshyLarry27 6 points7 points  (1 child)

Believe it or not . . . wait for it . . . it's in the sidebar

[–][deleted] 325 points326 points  (30 children)

95% of people hate silence. Our world is so fast paced and chaotic that people, especially women, will fill the void with anything because silence makes them uncomfortable. I have a theory this is because they have to deal with their own thoughts, but that's a way different topic.

As you did, you can exploit this feeling. People will tend to continue speaking if there is an extended period of silence, not because they want to continue speaking, but because they feel the silence is too awkward.

This can also be used to make you seem different, more mysterious for a lack of a better term. How many guys ramble all day, talking fast without pausing? By slowing down and creating silence in your speech, it can really differentiate yourself when applying for a job or, in your case, a grant.

[–]TRPDigesting 64 points65 points  (15 children)

I'm interested in hearing your other theory, because I've suspected the same myself. Not even just women, but some men who hate it too.

When there's a silence, then they're left to deal with their inner monologue. It's why you hear about people "leaving Netflix on in the background" while they do stuff. I even slept with a girl a couple times who insisted on having a TV show on while she fell asleep because she "couldn't sleep without background noise."

That one was kind of disturbing.

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (4 children)

I'd like to hear it too.

But, like OP said 95% of people hate silence. I believe that number is greater than 95% because, i'm a pretty silent person in general. Again like OP said people will take note of something like that, because the whole world is constantly babbling about nothing and if you're not doing what everyone else is doing then it's weird or different.

Definitely a good tool to use, but like everything else it takes time and experience

[–]AloofusMaximus 12 points13 points  (3 children)

Haha this is definitely true. I'm naturally an introvert and can definitely come across as being "quiet". While I do banter with people I don't ever feel the "need" to do so, and can definitely almost see some people start to get fidgety when there's no talking.

I'm actually the opposite of the above, I almost can't sleep with any kind of noise

[–]ReformSociety -4 points-3 points  (2 children)

Have you considered leaving "Haha" out of your comment? It may add a more serious tone to your comment.

[–]AloofusMaximus 14 points15 points  (1 child)

Doesn't really matter much to me. I find it amusing that people get uncomfortable about something as trivial as a little silence.

[–]Gearski 1 points1 points [recovered]

"couldn't sleep without background noise."

Not that uncommon, I sleep with white noise like rain sounds because I have tinnitus.

[–]TRPDigesting 14 points15 points  (5 children)

Hey man, I get that — I was like that for a phase with binaural beats. You're using white noise with nature sounds to circumvent an actual issue with your ears. THAT sort of behavior is common enough.

She was using re-runs of 30 Rock on Netflix with a glowing laptop facing her on the night stand. She'd stare at it until she dozed off. I can't comfortably call that common behavior, or even recommended.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (3 children)

I wonder If we've slept with the same girl

[–]VickVaseline 4 points5 points  (2 children)

...plus one.

My LTR has to have the TV on all the time -- all day, during dinner, all night while she is sleeping. If we check into a hotel somewhere, the first thing she does is throw on the TV, and it stays on. It doesn't matter what it is: news, movies, nature programs. She just needs it on. Honestly, I think she's trying to drown out whatever is going on in her head.

[–]Sakarabru 4 points5 points  (0 children)

She probably is. Silence speaks and many do not like what it has to say.

[–]TRPDigesting 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yikes man. All the time? That signifies a problem.

Tell me this — if you ever commented on it, was she at all defensive? If so, I'd really place a wager on the fact that she NEEDED it on in order to function "correctly."

Sometimes it's actually just nice to have silence. Even though I'm very much in the habit of bumping music in the car, there are times on long drives where I would just rather listen to the road noise and let my monkey-mind do its thing.

[–]AloofusMaximus 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I have tinnitus too, but have for most of my life. I remember trying to describe it to the school nurse when I had my first hearing test.

I've also read about people using white noise to help with it, but it's never really been a huge distraction to me. The same article also talked about people basically starting to have mental problems as a result of it. Maybe because I've always had it, I'm kind of used to it.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Walking around the room after sex, silent, makes my girl go wild and usually leads to a second session after me being silent and grinning

[–]nofilmynofucky 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Adding to your thoughts, insecure people hate silence. It gives them time to pause and doubt themselves, so they'll then seek to be more accommodating to your desires if you can just keep your mouth shut for a bit

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (5 children)

I'm the type of person who can't shut the fuck up. It's really hard. I feel like I have to somehow coherently say something in order to win. How can I change this mentality?

[–]bobaisdope 10 points11 points  (1 child)

Sorry bro I was chuckling a little bit, but this is female trait, you can get rid of this habit by reminding that you're a fucking MAN, you don't need to prove anything to anybody unless it's necessary.

[–]Isbjornsolo[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Concentrate on your breathing and count to 10 in your head. Think about what the other person has said and respond accordingly.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It just requires recognition. I used to talk too loud, to the point where people complained around me. Once I started taking loudly, I recognized it happened and then brought it in over time.

[–]BuddhistSC 0 points1 point  (2 children)

I have a theory this is because they have to deal with their own thoughts

It's just because silence is awkward, the same way body language can be awkward. It indicates social incohesion, or disapproval on the part of the one who is silent.

Probably has nothing to do with their own thoughts.

[–]Isbjornsolo[S] 7 points8 points  (1 child)

People have been conditioned to believe that we need to always be communicating. We don't, silence is incredible & you need it from time to time. Even if you're just sat in a room with others. Now if you're in a social setting and no one is talking, then yes it can be awkward. But this is where you get a chance to become the socialiser of the group.

[–]BuddhistSC 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm not debating that. I'm debating the idea that it makes people uncomfortable because they have to deal with their own thoughts. I think it has nothing to do with that for 99% of people, and everything to do with the fact that silence usually communicates something negative. It's pretty obvious that people are going to want to avoid a negative social signal.

[–]Treanwreck 98 points99 points  (5 children)

Literally how I "fight" with my girlfriend. Still never lost, just let her beat herself.

[–][deleted] 83 points84 points  (4 children)

In the words of Bill Burr, “lean on the ropes and let her punch herself out. You’ve won”

[–]bodag 1 points1 points [recovered]

Bill Burr has some of the best, "no shit, why didn't I think of that" advice on earth.

[–][deleted] 33 points34 points  (1 child)

Nice one. It can be too easy to bend to other people if you are easy and “don’t mind waiting.” 9/10 times you’re simply enabling their laziness.

[–]Isbjornsolo[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Correct, I wanted to tell the guy to do his job. But direct confrontation won't get the result I wanted.

This is one of the big differences between driven people and those that aren't.

[–]MrH0rseman 23 points24 points  (0 children)

“I’m disappointed in you” or “you’re a piece of shit” look works when you hold your ground in face 2 face scenarios.

[–][deleted] 24 points25 points  (0 children)

When you're quiet and mysterious, people care. They're interested. When you're an open book, nobody gives a shit. There's no interest

[–]Bills811 24 points25 points  (2 children)

You've seen The Wolf Of Wallstreet right? Remember the scene when he first goes over the Sales script and gives the closing line with the price "Whoever speaks first, loses" and the guy buys

I do sales, I started doing that. I wait after my close. It works almost Everytime. Surprisingly, A LOT of the shit he says works for sales. he's a scumbag besides for being good at sales haha

[–]Isbjornsolo[S] 4 points5 points  (1 child)

I haven't seen it in a few years, might be a good time to have a re-watch. If i recall correctly he became a scumbag because his then wife/LTR ran off with a rich guy.

[–]Bills811 4 points5 points  (0 children)

No he left his first wife for the hot blonde and marries her. He was (is) just a great salesman but got hooked on money and drugs and stole his then fortune. Created a gecko type scam to steal people’s money (over $150m) basically selling them fake stock.

It’s a shame because he’s such a great salesman too. He teaches big corporations how to sell now

[–]PaulAJK 40 points41 points  (2 children)

I do this all the time in selling, it's a really useful tool to get the close. Just lay out your final proposition and then say NOTHING. Then they'll talk themselves into buying. You have to get over the awkwardness, but it's a handy tool.

[–]BrolecopterPilot 15 points16 points  (1 child)

I mean yeah. But I’ve been in sales and I’ve also been a customer. This works sometimes, but if you’re a customer who has any sort of self worth it probably won’t. Let’s be real here. Most (confident) customers will be like “this guy’s just gonna sit here and stare at me after pitching some bullshit? Ok see ya.”

[–]PaulAJK 4 points5 points  (0 children)

It's situation specific, but I find it a useful tool.

[–]TheBigForklift 12 points13 points  (0 children)

I had a mentor who told me two words a few years back that have been extremely powerful in my life and apply to most situations. Doesn’t matter if its women, police/government, parents, anything.

“Say less.”

[–]uwey 29 points30 points  (0 children)

Always say less. Silent is power.

[–]dix2long 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Most people love the sound of their voices SO MUCH, they end up saying nothing while trying to say everything. Use your words like rifle ammo, and you'll have less of a chance of talking yourself out of a good thing. Like booty!

[–]crqze7 19 points20 points  (2 children)

My dad once told me, "in business, whoever opens their mouth first loses". I have seen him prove that first hand when negotiating and boy is it true.

[–]hb8only 1 points1 points [recovered]

but what if 2 alphas are doing business..? who talk first?

[–]Isbjornsolo[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I've done this in contract negotiations. You talk around the subject. So there is some noise but nothing has been said. The first one to put the deal on the table sets the "anchor" point for the negotiation.

[–]screwston281 6 points7 points  (0 children)

One red pill a day keeps the money flowing towards your way.

[–]ItPutsLotionOnItSkin 3 points4 points  (0 children)

That is how police get people to incriminate themselves. Even little shit like "Why did you run that stop sign?" A few seconds of silence and a person will come up with a lame ass excuse or just confess hoping for leniency.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (1 child)

this applies to game guys. When a girl tests me and I have absolutely no idea what do, I just stare at her and give her this "really?" look, they squirm, take back what they said and try to get on your good side, it's hilarious

[–]DaNatural_1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is so true, if u don't have a witty response your better off saying nothing at all. People hate silent treatment.

[–]Guardian_of_Justice 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Sometimes it works wonders. Other times, it sets you back in the relationship so far that a person will feel discomfort every time he sees you. Don't do it if you value the relationship with the person.

[–]Isbjornsolo[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Silence is a great tool even if you value the relationship. It can the other person a chance to think and reivew thier position. It also gives you time to do the same. If anything the end result is that in my experience. You have the opportunity to improve the relationship. Because people think you're considering their position.

Again this was done in a specific business setting. Where he has targets as he's employed by the local council. He has targets to hit etc. I don't

[–]Expectations1 16 points17 points  (2 children)

I love the rush hour quote: Not being able to speak is not the same as not speaking. You seem as if you like to talk. I like to let people talk who like to talk. It makes it easier to find out how full of shit they are.

[–]djl8699 33 points34 points  (1 child)

What the hell did you just say?

[–]IndividualEvent 6 points7 points  (1 child)

You Limeys sure take a lot of bank holidays lol. It makes us Yanks jealous. I was just in the UK two weeks ago and you had just had a bank holiday then!

But I digress. Awesome post! A valuable lesson I learned in sales is quite similar to what you demonstrated: use silence to your advantage and do not volunteer information.

[–]Isbjornsolo[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

We have the least ammount of bank holidays in Europe. Bavaria in Germany have 13.

I'm still amazed you Yanks don't even get paid holiday etc. But thats a topic for a different day.

[–]jgoforth2 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Wolf of wallstreet didn’t lie my friend

[–]notsoeasytopickaname 1 points1 points [recovered]

Usually when I do that, the person on the other end asks awkwardly: Heeeelloooo? Are you still there?

[–]Isbjornsolo[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Make sure to give some form of sound over the phone in this case. Yes, ok, hmm etc.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I agree with your post although I have a friend who does this. constant periods of waiting during conversation. hes one of my best mates and I love the guy but hes got a reputation as being a bit of a weird bloke.

[–]Isbjornsolo[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

As with anything it's subjective. I find myself not entering or engagging in conversations for a variety of reasons. Sometimes it's because the topic is idiotic (gossip etc) sometimes I just want to listen and then will engage if i feel it's worth it.

One of my key lines (which can piss people off) is "If you want me to have a conversation with you, speak about something worthy of my time" It usually drags the conversation into a better realm.

[–]kidwithambition 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Leave a woman in a silent room without a cellphone and she will go mental.

[–]1421834L 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Big Facts. Used this today on my cousin when he complained about something I wanted to show him. He wouldn't stop talking. "Did I say something wrong?" etc. Fire af

[–]youngzari 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's just like sales. The first one who speaks ... loses.

[–]Isbjornsolo[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Need to rewatch it then. I loved the bit about the pen at the end. That was genius.

[–]MadSparty 0 points1 point  (2 children)

The cadence of your interaction reminds me of Atlas Shrugged whenever Dagny Taggart or Hank Rearden interact with the moochers and parasites in the story. Awesome post!

[–]Isbjornsolo[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Never read it. Is it worth the time?

[–]MadSparty 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yea. It's very much a red pilled book, and my vote for most important novel to read for high schoolers. Although pacing is horrible at parts, so I recommend The Fountainhead for those dipping their feet in. It's the superior story, while Atlas Shrugged is more important to the world.

[–]GoldAri7 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is impressive. Very nice.

[–]d4ng3rz0n3 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yep this is called the “power pause” and its SO effective in business when used correctly.

[–]Alpha_Jedi 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Silence: The "silent" killer. Nice post. It's very true, if you exercise some strategic silence, people will get uncomfortable and start talking themselves into a corner. Cheers.

[–]PenIsMightier0 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Silence is indeed excellent to make them re-evaluate. If it is ever not enough, reciprocity also works. In this example, if he had remained on the fence after the silence, you can offer to give him a good review for working extra hard to whatever system/boss he cares about. Offering him a free meal and building rapport might also work, and even if he doesn't take you up on it he'll appreciate the gesture and be more likely to comply.

Same with a woman. Let's say she is on the fence about sex. If the silence isn't enough, just take action. After the silence, I lift her off her feet, compliment her light weight (she may in turn comment on my strength), carry her to bed, give her a little massage, then you know the rest.

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