Off TopicHeight-related Red Pills from a Short Man (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by shortandspicy

Hello TRP,

I am what you would consider short. I'm 5'5 barefoot, 5'6 in shoes, and roughly 5'6.5~5'7 in boots. So, while I am not extraordinarily tiny, I am no giant either. Height seems to be a dilemma for a lot of men, and I thought that I would share my advice and perspective as a below-average individual. Let me just say that there is a very good chance you might not agree with everything I have to say, which is fine, these are my own perspectives and nuggets of information and you are free to do with them as you see fit. The purpose of this is, however, to give you the most honest input that I can about the realities of being short and what you can hope to expect.

• I figured I would start out with the most polarizing of statements, but also one which I also feel needs to be said: Being a short man is hard. It is not easy. The deck of life is stacked against you. There are real, tangible benefits to being tall. If you were to ask a short person why they want to be taller, it isn't "just because" or "I want to see from a slightly higher perspective" -- it's because going from short to tall is an objective improvement socially. I do not care if you disagree with this, because if you do, you are wrong. You are wrong like someone who believes that the Earth is flat is wrong. There is a very good reason why certain subreddits dedicated to those of taller stature are considered a whimsical, jovial place to be and those of less than average height are a cesspit of depression and self-hatred. We live in a society where tall is good and short is bad. It is not going to be easy. It is going to hurt. You are going to have to try harder. That's just the way it is.

Height issues, predominantly, affect men. Women always find themselves butting into the conversations of male height-related matters, and it will always perplex me as to why. "Short women have it bad too!" No. A short woman is valued far more in the sexual marketplace than a short man, and that is the stone cold truth. The issues women face with regards to their height might as well be a drop in a swimming pool compared to what men face. Don't believe me? If it affected women to nearly the magnitude which men are affected, height discrimination/short shaming/whatever you want to call it would be ostracized like fat shaming is. Which brings me to:

Do not expect women to understand or empathize with your predicaments as a short man. Society, at worst, actively encourages height shaming, and at best, placates it and allows it to continually fester. And that's because, as stated above, it does not affect women. If someone can make you the butt of a joke to get a cheap laugh in, and they suspect that you're a chump who will take it, they will do it, especially if they are with their friends. Never take this personally. Many people do not know what they want. For a lot of them, their lives are wrought with insecurity and frustration, which is why so many of them are miserable, and sometimes this anger/impoliteness spills out onto you. Which means...

The worst thing you can do is to get aggressive about your height. Being labeled for your height is literally no different than being labeled for your skin color. Someone implying that a short man is aggressive because of his height is just as rotten as someone who implies that a black person is aggressive because "it's just how they are." Society, once again, actively condemns one but makes light of the other (The Napoleon Complex). There is no reason to become upset over small-minded people making small-minded comments. It will only come back to bite you in the ass. I cannot stress this enough, be unreactive when someone makes negative comments about your height. I have been with and dated women who, upon first interaction, had made comments about my height, and because I didn't lose my cool, I was able to take them to bed and prove to them that it didn't bother me. That isn't to say you don't stand up for yourself -- having a spine is very important. But one of the difficulties you will face as a short man is needing to control your temper. You will have a target on your back, and spazzing out will only reinforce the notion that short men are aggressive and angry.

Wearing shoe lifts is no different than wearing makeup. If you feel comfortable wearing lifts in your shoes then fucking do it. Especially if you're going out to a club. Do whatever makes you feel more confident and happy. There is nothing wrong with boosting your height, especially when the fashion and cosmetics industry makes money hand over fist because women are so desperate to hide their imperfections. Just be aware of what this implies: if you think there's nothing wrong with being short, and you are wearing shoe lifts, you are lying to yourself. I am not in the position to tell anyone what they must do, but it is something to consider. Likewise, shoe lifts are not very pragmatic, and will often be uncomfortable after a couple of hours. If you do want to try them, I suggest wearing them for a limited amount of time to gauge how they fit and if it's something you wish to invest in. Frankly, this is 100% a personal decision on your part, and I feel as though it's unfair for men to have to be "boxed in" height-wise where their attempts to be taller are met with scorn while women can literally paint a new face onto themselves.

• Women do not fawn after tall men because they are better protectors, they fawn over them because of the sexual implication. 'Tall man' is a coded phrase for 'big dick.' As stated in my opening paragraph, short men are just as capable of having large packages, but it is a stigma perpetrated by society and people continue to buy into it. The idea is that, if he's a big guy, surely he'll be proportional elsewhere. Furthermore, women, especially short women, want to be dominated sexually. A tall man can pick up and throw women around in the bedroom in a way that short men, simply put, cannot. If a woman were that adamant about being protected, she would carry around a gun. Hell, the average height for a Navy SEAL is 5'9-5'10. Tall men are a sexual thrill and women are too coy to say otherwise. And if they do try to refute this, feel free to remind them of how 50 Shades of Grey, the story of how a young woman is dominated by an attractive, tall, alluring businessman, is one of the most profitable books of the last 50 years.

Being fit/attractive/well-dressed helps tremendously, but it is not a cure-all. A woman who is steadfast about not dating short men is not going to suddenly reconsider you because you have big arms and visible abs or piercing blue eyes. Some will, certainly, but becoming fit and taking care of yourself doesn't tear down walls, rather, it allows you to throw out a slightly larger net. In any case, I would consider weightlifting and being fit as a goal for you and you alone. If you do it, do it because it feels good and it makes you feel more confident, not because it increases your chances of getting laid.

• Women are entitled to their preferences. Let me say that again: women are allowed to have preferences. Women are also allowed to have requirements. You should not feel bad about having requirements, nor should you feel bad about not meeting someone else's. One of my requirements is that my partner isn't hooked on a heavy narcotic. Whether their requirements/preferences are extraordinarily strict or not is entirely dependent upon their own personal beliefs, values, and goals. Do not be upset if you do not fit these. It has nothing to do with you. If you see a tall girl while you're cruising Tinder who has a bio that says "no shorties," do not be offended by it. Many women have height preferences, and about half of those are actually height requirements (i.e must be no shorter than x'y). Unfortunately, because of social conditioning, they are pretty much allowed to say whatever they like about short men and they will most likely get away with it. This is one area in which men need to harden up. You will not be everyone's cup of tea and that is completely okay.

• I wanted to save this one for last, because I think it's probably the most important. You have to accept reality and learn love yourself. You are a human being and you have value. Nobody has the right to make you feel as though you are less of a person just because you don't tower over someone else. Find your hobbies, find your passions, set goals, make connections, experience heartbreak, improve yourself, and live a rich, fulfilling life. As soon as you're born you start dying, and nothing in the world can stop that clock. Life is what you make of it, and you have to find your own meaning. Do not let anything hold you back. You deserve the best. Much love, guys. Shortandspicy out.

[–]The_Pine 143 points144 points  (15 children)

I'm 23yo and I've been 5'1 for the last 6 years of my life. Just to throw out there that if I get to have an exciting romantic and sex life at this height (and I am by no means shredded or have the biggest frame / game) you all that are taller, shut up and throw yourselves out there into the world. God's speed.

[–]squarehead93 11 points12 points  (8 children)

Do tell about your romantic life. Are you very extroverted? Do you have any hobbies or play any sports? The guys that short that I see pulling are usually very outgoing and athletic, if not ripped, or they're in a band or a DJ or something.

[–]white_girl_lover 11 points12 points  (5 children)

Short guys are great for skateboarding also

[–]squarehead93 17 points18 points  (1 child)

A lot of the short guys I knew in high school that were good with girls fit into the skater/burnout category.

[–]subnauticalife 12 points13 points  (0 children)

As a skater/burnout from high school at 5"7, can agree it works better than most people think.

[–]JSuma 8 points9 points  (2 children)

Always noticed I’m the tallest at the skatepark. Theoretically I should be able to have better looking tricks with more pop but so far I just fall way harder.

[–]white_girl_lover 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Ik,but when a short guy can appear taller as long as he stays on the board

[–]Redasshole 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Id like a picture of your face. You must be handsome

[–]massivewang 137 points138 points  (17 children)

I’m tall and my buddy is short. I see the dynamic play out often, not only do women give you a hard time when you’re short but dudes do as well. I’ve seen plenty a man mess with my buddy/overstep boundaries simply because he was short. I’ve had to step in a few times to get them to back off.

With that said my buddy has an eccentric sense of style, impeccable game, and has quite the package. He kills it with women because his personality/game are on point. He’s the most socially intelligent person in the room. He knows exactly what’s going on and is never at a loss for words. At the same time he is the most fun person I know. He lives in the moment and can make the mundane fun in a heart beat. He knows the local scene, where all the cool bars/clubs are, and is constantly going to concerts/shows/etc. Women can’t get enough.

I get a lot initial interest because I’m tall and strong (seriously fellas, lift! The IOIs I’ve gotten since adding mass have increased significantly). I do well for myself, but I can’t compete with him at all.

[–]soyelsimba 44 points45 points  (9 children)

You sound like a good wingman dude

[–]massivewang 18 points19 points  (8 children)

I just know the basics. My game is nothing at all like his.

At any rate it's a relationship I'm thankful for. We've had different upbringings and different personalities. There's a level of mutual respect/admiration/appreciation because we both see the best in each other and are both aware of our own flaws. I'm a bit more plan things out and he's far more go with the flow, so we tend to bring good perspective to one another.

[–]vsvpcastro 5 points6 points  (3 children)

how do you think someone can improve socially like him?

[–]massivewang 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I think there's something to be said about your personality. Intrinsically he's a social guy and his mind leans toward the hustle/problem solving. Otherwise just like anything else, you get out there and you work toward improving it.

I don't envy my friend, I think part of his success is because he had a choatic upbringing and he has been on his own since 17. He's quite resourceful, bold, confident, etc as a result. Though at the same time he is quite impulsive, prone to drink, act out, etc.

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (1 child)

That's comical. The present and socially competent short man outgames the taller man. Sad but true. Im a 6ft tall pretty jacked guy and i hardly get laid anymore just because my social game isnt what it used to be. Also because i have major depressive disorder with manic episodes due to abusive childhood and several drug induced psychoses. It's all relative, guys.

[–]massivewang 7 points8 points  (0 children)

In our circle there are three other guys who are handsome as FUCK. Two of them are in the upper five foot range fit but not huge, the other guy is like 6'3 and is fucking JACKED. Chicks swoon over all of them, they don't have to do a damn thing other than not fuck it up. I've never seen anything like it. They kill it on online dating apps and are consistently with the hottest women. I am nowhere near them in terms of looks.

My buddy can out game the lot, but it's funny because he has to work for his success, where these other dudes have won the genetic lottery with their top model looks (that's not to diminish the fact they're fit and lift, but lifting/losing fat can only do so much for your face). It's important to note that my buddy DOES NOT LIFT, his physique is really quite laughable and he doesn't take care of his body that well. With that said he still kills it with women left and right.

Anyway it's all fun and games to me because I am seeing all aspects of this shit play out. The short guy with game, the guy with 1% looks who doesn't have to try, etc. If anything it's reinforced that it's not black and white, that it's not just a matter of "just lift" or game but a variety of factors. And that each person can find their own method of success via the things they can/want/are willing to embrace and improve.

[–]Reaper1967 157 points158 points  (25 children)

I’m 5’6”, the only girls that have ever made fun of my height ended up in my bed. It’s a shit test, handle as any other

[–]darkslayer76 10 points11 points  (5 children)

Would you care to share some examples or tips to an almost same height bro?

[–]Reaper1967 121 points122 points  (3 children)

It’s been said before, don’t let shit bother you. In my experiences I’ve only ever gotten the height made fun of when a girl was interested in me already. They use it to test you. “You’re really short” “Shouldn’t you be taller?” “Is everything that small?” Shit like that. A&A it, flip it, etc. “Damn, you’re observant” “God hates me” “My parents won’t let me” “I’m afraid of heights” “Maybe you can help me grow”

They’re just trying to break your frame, and see your insecurities. If it’s obvious it doesn’t bother you, it’s not going to be an issue. You’re only as strong as your weakest insecurity.

[–]darkslayer76 7 points8 points  (1 child)

Thank you, really appreciated. Apparently not only useful to me, looking at the upvotes.

[–]Stormhammer 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Honestly, just treat height like it's never an issue, never was an issue, and never will be an issue.

... because it really isn't ( shouldn't be, rather ). Be the change you want to see int he world.

[–]red_matrix 9 points10 points  (16 children)

If a woman slams your height, isn't that a straight up insult and not a shit test? How would you handle that one? Everytime I see a girl make fun of a guy's height it's just so sad, there's almost no comeback other than to ignore it. I don't see A&A working here

[–]Reaper1967 35 points36 points  (6 children)

What is an insult, an attack on frame attempting to rouse a reaction. Someone trying to bring you into their frame. If you DGAF, it loses all power. If you aren’t insecure about it, it throws them off guard. A&A works because it shows you aren’t insecure, and can find amusement in her(or his) attempt to bring you down. YMMV, but I haven’t had anyone (male or female) continue to push past one maybe two stabs at the height, because I just don’t care what they think. If my height is truly that much of a concern to you, fuck off and quit wasting my time.

[–]red_matrix 2 points3 points  (5 children)

I meant specially what would you say. I've seen my buddy just clam up or ignore some insults from women about his height - but an insult is still and insult. I don't think it's as easy as you say. YMMV

[–]Reaper1967 12 points13 points  (1 child)

“I’m not short I’m vertically challenged” “It’s a shorter trip to lay you down” “Perfect height to see what’s important” (If she’s in heels or just taller...look at her boobs when you say it) “I left my heels at home, didn’t want to make you jealous” “Oxygen density is much better down here”

You (your buddy?) are still fighting an insecurity about your height. It really isn’t a big deal unless you make it one. Take a step back and look inside as to why it’s hanging you up. If you really are the prize and have value to offer, the height won’t be an issue. Like I stated, every time I’ve gotten shit for it, it’s been because the girl was playing with me. If she’s actually being a bitch about it, or continually pressing the issue (not playing in that case) then why would you give her any of your time or attention past that point?

[–]Aufbruch 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I thought they all ended up in your bed, though?

[–]kril89 7 points8 points  (0 children)

What I always say and it's 100% the truth "If you think there should be more of me I think I'm doing pretty good"

[–]cBIGONE 8 points9 points  (6 children)

Laugh, and say "I'm always up for a challenge",or just give a big shit grinning smirk and stare. Amplifying doesn't always have to be filled with words

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

big shit grinning smirk and stare

This is a great response for most things..

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

"Oh my god are you 5'6"? That's sooo short!"

"Fuck no! Im actually 4 feet without my fake legs.."

[–]thepesterman 3 points4 points  (1 child)

This should be much higher, short guys get less pussy because society tells them they should, its up to you to agree or disagree with superficial opinions.

[–]Snazzy_Serval 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This should be much higher, short guys get less pussy because society tells them they should

I think it's because society tells women that they sholdn't give pussy to short guys.

[–]MormonRedPill 196 points197 points  (64 children)

Do not expect women to understand or empathize with your predicaments as a (short) man

Probably the most important point. She is and always will be operating under a different paradigm.

If a woman were that adamant about being protected, she would carry around a gun.

If a woman were that adamant about getting food, she would become a hunter. Neither of those statements are true. Humanity is a sexually dimorphic species, each sex specializing in different areas, selecting for those sundry specializations in the opposite sex.

If 20,000 BC you gets in a fight with some 6'3 dude and you're 5'6, you're probably gonna get your skull caved in by troglodyte club. Your woman suddenly is stripped of her access to resources. She and your proto-family might die. When we were developing there were no office politics, Wall Street wolves, or nimble-minded tycoons. You lived in groups of maybe 100, and you died alone. That instinct is still programmed into her—that primal nagging that a short man represents a physical risk. It's your job to convince her you're worth the risk (or more appositely, that you're devoid of that risk).

[–]jrr6415sun 177 points178 points  (10 children)

yup girls liking tall guys is primal instincts that they want to be protected, not because they want a big dick.

[–]egoshiner 43 points44 points  (3 children)

Ya that part kinda confused me.

[–]RedKingRising 28 points29 points  (2 children)

Reddit is full of stories of unhung giants in any thread about penis size

[–]Greek-God-Brody 25 points26 points  (0 children)

This is why lifting / getting jacked is the no.1 way to looksmax.

[–][deleted] 19 points20 points  (2 children)

Yea I stopped reading there. Seems fairly self evident that preference height is about strength, not dick size.

[–]hiddenpleasures123 46 points47 points  (1 child)

I think an interesting way to look at it too is... The genetic for being short survived somehow. Human beings evolved enough to kill predators that would shred a barehanded 6'3 human.

The 5'6 man had a lower center of gravity, better stamina, required less food and was quicker. 5'6 guy given the right weapon, the reach and size that the 6'3 guy had was no longer important. How relevant was the lower center of gravity? The short guy could change directions quicker, had better balance over poor ground. He was also a smaller target. They were also superior climbers because of their lower body weight.

[–]campechampz 8 points9 points  (1 child)

I think this is most a fallacy. Based on that, short guys probably wouldnt exist today because of natural selection

[–][deleted] 15 points16 points  (0 children)

No that’s incorrect. Back when we had to hunt and gather, being tall would have made you more sexually attractive but also requires more calories to feed you. So there is an evolutionary trade-off.

[–]DrankOfSmell 16 points17 points  (2 children)

Hunter gatherer humans lived in tribal groups that actually acted in a way that modern man would recognize as communistic. It wasn’t a bunch of families in their own caves fending for themselves, lol. Having your tribe get raided is a bigger issue than some tribal bully. There were social standards within the tribe.

Big game is hunted and he kill is shared with everyone

[–]Aufbruch 7 points8 points  (0 children)

That's why you bludgeon them to death in their sleep, though. The Strong dominate the Weak, and the Clever dominate the Strong.

[–]KiteAsAHeight 1 points1 points [recovered]

Are you Mormon? Just curious as I'm ex-mo and couldn't imagine knownig about TRP as an active Mormon lol

[–]1scissor_me_timbers00 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Aayye me too. Mormon blue pill fucked me up.

[–]BatemaninAccounting 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Humanity is a sexually dimorphic species

FYI you aren't entirely correct(at least how I think you're thinking about sexual dimorphism). In early hominids, though, sexual dimorphism may have been more pronounced. Studies of Paranthropus robustus, which appeared around two million years ago, suggest that males were significantly bigger than females. This may have reflected polygamy – harem building, as seen in today’s silverback gorillas. The ratios are greater in some primates (gorillas have values of about 84!), but if they’re greater than 1, there’s room for sexual selection, since there are more males seeking females than there are females available as mates. Human sexual body size dimorphism (male/female ratio) is on average 1.15, though depending on the location values range from 1.09-1.28.

So... yeah. This is a complex subject and we're still learning stuff about it, but humans are very low on the sexual dimorphism scale in terms of biology.

[–]ultrab1ue 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Troglodyte?? Had to look that one up. Damn some of you folks here are well read

[–]VoidInvincible 34 points35 points  (3 children)

Don't complain if you are around 5'9 though, because that's not short.

[–]kurdishpower01 17 points18 points  (1 child)

It is in the Netherlands and you should never complain no matter what.

Cope or rope like incels would say

[–]yazen_ 9 points10 points  (0 children)

This. Everytime I go to a corporate event in Europe, always the tallest guys are Dutch. Like 1m90 and above

[–]B-L-G-Y 19 points20 points  (1 child)

Let me tell you all about a guy we'll call L.

I work in a big box retail environment while I build up a customer base for a contractor business. Without going into too much detail, I meet a lot of people who've just bought a home and want new cabinets and whathaveyou. A lot of these people are attractive women who've just netted some poor sap who's trying to buy her the world so she stays, and some of them are attractive divorcees looking to get back on the carousel. So there's that.

There's also a lot of cute young ladies working the registers, and some of the less detail-oriented "specialist" positions. On the flip side we have a lot of spineless, and I hate to use the term, soyboys working the floor and keeping their noses down and just generally trying to be as invisible as possible.

Enter L. L, I swear to God, has got to be four feet tall. If someone told me he was 4'1 or more I would have a heart attack. I've seen thousands of people come into the store and none of them are shorter than L. People bring their kids in and they tower over him, and you know what? He doesn't give a fuck.

L is basically jacked. A little more body fat than you might want if you were in his shoes, but he's got just about as much muscle as his frame could carry. He's got an incredibly positive attitude. He's hilarious. He's high energy and not in the least bit annoying except to people who envy his nature. Within a week he'd (foolishly) started a relationship with some thot in his department. It's okay because his job consists of making out all day with a chick who cannot get enough of him. And hand to God, some of the cutest cashiers--again, these are women who practically have to shout down to him so he can hear--have expressed out loud that they wish he was single.

There's a few things L does that you should take note of if you are also short:

  1. He never brings up his height. I've heard some of those envious, insecure boys call him all kinds of fucked up shit. Leprechaun, gnome, Willow. Anything you can think of. He has a spot on impersonation for each of these characters and more. He glosses right over the insult and one ups them with even better humor. If there's people around he works the crowd instead of engaging directly. This is indicative of someone who's been relentlessly tormented about their glaring disadvantage their entire life and who owns it as though he fought through hell to get it. L doesn't give a fuck. He told me once he doesn't let anybody get him down because it's not physically possible for him to get lower. 10/10 joke, you had to be there. Dry delivery. Agh. God bless him.

  2. He stands up straight, with his chest and core centered and firm, and maintains solid eye contact. When engaging with customers he uses an authoritative, confident tone of voice. This nearly erases the physical man before them and presents a cool, collected force. L behaves like Usain Bolt in Mini Me's body, and people listen to what he has to say like he's Winston Churchill because of it. Body language and tone are two of your most important weapons when trying to present yourself in the best way. In his case this achieves a remarkable feat; he's interacting with such poise that the same kid who just spent thirty minutes shitting all over him behind his back struggles to behave as cool and calmly, and oftentimes they're nowhere near his level. You can look at this a couple different ways. If you're an optimist you might think he's building others up by inspiring them to be better. If you're cynical you can point out that L's dimeanor is so vastly superior that they feel the need to match it as soon as they realize how outclassed they are. Both are true, usually simultaneously. You can be like L, or you can be like the pissant who's so insecure he needs to take the easiest shot at the easiest target in a building the size of a football field. The choice is yours.

  3. Most importantly, L doesn't kill people with kindness. He doesn't try at all to win people over. It just happens. Because of the social value he has just by being who he is, people have gone from hating him to loving him within an hour. I've seen it more than once. He talks to everybody, jokes constantly and very well at that, and never lets anybody bring him down to their level. L doesn't try to "win" in a social interaction because he understands that the second somebody tries to tear him down, they're losing. I've never once seen the guy deviate even slightly from his frame. He exists in his world, and he walks on his ground. This is important no matter what height you are, but as OP stated it is very difficult when the odds are stacked against you. L makes it look easy.

Be like L. He's got a ways to go before he has a bimbo trophy on either arm but he's very close. Me and a few bros think this chick he's going steady with will do him dirty, and that may be the catalyst for him to fully transform into a tiny Chad. If he can do that, you can too. The only thing standing in your way, ever, is yourself.

As a disclaimer, I'm about 5'6 out of shoes. I've been with exactly one woman shorter than me. It is what it is, man. The stigma attached to your height is nothing more than smoke and mirrors. It is your job to cut through the bullshit and rise above. Only you hold that power, and it's easier than you think.

Great post, u/shortandspicy.

[–]jvgkaty44 97 points98 points  (13 children)

Im gonna say this. Ive known plenty of shorter guys and many had hot gfs or wives. Theres a guy where i work whos is pretty short and average looks who girls are all over. He isnt even that good looking but he is pretty confident and has a good personality.

[–]shortandspicy[S] 142 points143 points  (1 child)

Confidence is the game-changer.

[–]kurdishpower01 33 points34 points  (0 children)

Confidence and social intelligence*

[–]2gudfou 64 points65 points  (5 children)

The best ladys' man I've ever met who would put James Bond to shame is short but also a personal trainer. He just got booty called last night by a girl I used to have a LTR with. He turned her down too because he's a true bro and my best friend

[–]Spezs_Douch3 17 points18 points  (3 children)

He turned her down at that moment. Accept the possibility that it could happen. The "bro" thing to do on your part is to not care if it does happen.

[–]2gudfou 10 points11 points  (0 children)

I've actively tried to get him to do it because I don't care. I can admire that he cares about angering me to the point he wouldn't even consider having a thing with her, that doesn't mean I'd actually care if he does.

[–]jrr6415sun 29 points30 points  (2 children)

i've always equated a guy being tall to a girl having big boobs. Sure flat girls can still get lots of guys but they have to be pretty or a good personality. An ugly girl with big boobs can still attract a lot of guys, just like an ugly guy who is tall can still attract a lot of girls even with a bad personality.

[–]anabolic92 33 points34 points  (0 children)

Rules in the sexual marketplace do not apply equally for men and women.

If we ever managed to find an objective way to rate women you'd see how 'ugly' women still get much more attention than 'ugly' guys.

[–]Red_Faust 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Height and muscles are to guys what boobs to a girl.

They attract the attention of the opposite gender but are nowhere near enough to seal the deal.

But they are a damned good attractor nevertheless.

[–]sometimespredictable 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Yeah, the way I see it, being short is a disadvantage (that's undeniable) but it's in no way a death sentence.

[–]dirtycurt55 26 points27 points  (8 children)

I like what you said my man. I’m 5’5” as well and I can relate to everything you wrote. Shorter people live longer, but the advantages stop after that. Things like fighting, sports, and attracting women are all typically easier if you’re tall. I’ve even seen studies that height has a correlation on income and career success.

It’s not easy, but it’s just the hand we were dealt. Like you said, you just have to love yourself and make the best of it.

[–]Endorsed ContributorUEMcGill 42 points43 points  (6 children)

5'6" Oly lifter here. Short guys were made for lifting.

[–]Killing__Time_ 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Naim Suleymanoglu is the best example. Lifting depends on leverages, which predominantly depends on genetics.

[–]Endorsed ContributorUEMcGill 5 points6 points  (0 children)

190kg clean and jerk is so fucking sick it's not even funny.

[–]dirtycurt55 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I can agree with you there. Shorter guys can lift a much higher ratio of weight lifted compared to how much you weigh. You won’t see as many tall guys squatting 3-4 times their body weight.

Only disadvantage there is how much muscle you can put on a smaller frame. If you’re going for an overall world record, 6ft+ rules the board.

[–]BoyFromMiami 22 points23 points  (3 children)

I’ll share my experience. I am 6’3. I am usually the tallest in the room. With minimal excessive it has made it much easier to be taken seriously in all facets of life including women. I am not in denial about that. Is it fair? No. Life isn’t fair. Some are born rich and some are born poor and disabled. I know many “short” men who lift and advance in careers and education who will blow me out of the water in SMV. If your short, dress well, lift, advance in education career and redpoll knowledge. That combination will put you in the top 20%.

[–]The_Real_Cannaman 5 points6 points  (2 children)

Problem is that my country is redpilled as fuck and 70+% of my peers lift and all, i can only ascend by status but it's not worth the stress just for some dumb hoes. In the end of the day AWALT.

[–]white_girl_lover 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Then associate w those men and grow in status that way? Idk, what else will you do? Finding your purpose is always a great decision regardless of your circumstances.

[–]The_Real_Cannaman 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's what i do, doesn't help me so far but i don't give a fuck

[–]Schhwing 20 points21 points  (46 children)

The height- penis size relation is a stretch. Having taller humans does mean protection. Fighting rival clans and hunting bigger game etc. so I do think biologically women will select taller men subconsciously due to this “protection” drive. Better for the species.

[–]Paladin2903 13 points14 points  (41 children)

Height has nothing to do with toughness and protection. I’ve seen jacked guys, that are anywhere from 5’6” to 5’8” tall systematically beat the shit out of tall guys.

Mike Tyson is average height of 5’8” (arguably 5’9” at most) and he put the fear of God in everyone he fought that was taller than him. A lion is the king of the jungle and it’s smaller than a giraffe, yet the giraffe runs.

[–]Schhwing 6 points7 points  (13 children)

Comparing different species is a bit retarded so I’m not going to go there.

Re: your point with Tyson - a jacked tall guy is going to outfight a jacked short guy all things being equal - meaning if they both lift the same amount and have the same fighting training. That’s why weight classes exist.

You’re picking one of the best fighters of all time. This is not the general rule. Therefore all things being equal, height is more valuable. As a tall person can still become fit, a short person cannot become taller.

Also body composition is more a factor of lifestyle choices. Bone structure isn’t. Therefore a female still biologically (subconsciously) knows that tallness is more valuable than being fit.

[–]meninistMD 31 points32 points  (2 children)

Thanks for the post, you said many things that I wanted to say. I’m 5’6 too, luckily I have more luck than many of my friends, luckily I worked hard to get high social statues, I’m fit and I do have confident personality. However no matter what I do I’ll always see some people who would bring the issue of height and I have seen many women who consider this a deal breaker. I think many like me find this frustrating, unlike weight, you can never do anything to improve your height, it’s genetics, and it’s weird for me that the subject when brought in our society is not frowned upon like racism for example.

However, I’d say if you’re a short guy, don’t let that obstruct you, work on all other aspects and talk to as many women, I adore talking to tall women, and my current girlfriend is 6’1, at least half my exes were taller than me.

[–]AGameofTrolls 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Yup. I'm cursed being a 5"2 man, but I've managed to have girlfriends who have been taller than me. I've been carded in bars and clubs because I look way too young for my age and my boy body doesn't help at all. But, if a girl is really into you it won't really matter. A lot of people think I have a great personality and it all starts just by smiling and being a positive person. Spread some positivism around and everyone will be glad you're around. So, work on your personality and be a positive person and the stars will eventually align in your favor.

[–]looneyniggabunny 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Generally I believe that being tall for man is a attraction + points for women is due to the fact that women are naturally program to always look for good genes. Height = good genes
It is essential as having good looks , being fit etc that equal the values of good genes
I myself isn't tall either even I am at the average height of my genes (asians fml) and it is one the flaws I would feel bad the most because I can never do anything about it ( or I could but it is too late now)

However, this is why the TRP is here for, it enables you to build self confidence, build a idgaf attitude because of the amount of other values I am able to provide
Having good genes helps you playing the game at a easy mode, but knowing how to play the game lets you play at even the hardest mode (even if you're genetically ugly, you dress well, have a great personality and self confidence, great hobbies and successful, youre still gonna get the same amount of girls compare to the CHAD who doesnt know how to play the game)
Great post by OP on this topic, dont ever let anyone put you down because you set the frame, you're the frame.

[–]Gearski 60 points61 points  (5 children)

I'm 6'4 and my 5'6 best friend pulls way more than I do, I think there are things that matter a lot more than height.

[–]TimWestwood1 12 points13 points  (1 child)

I bet he has a really good sense of humour though

[–]Gearski 32 points33 points  (0 children)

Surprisingly not really, he isn't the funny guy in the group, just your average gymbro.

[–]cBIGONE 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Does he have great face symetry and skin and other aesthetic things unrelated to height? This is tough for friends to admit sometimes

[–]Gearski 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I've thought about this a bit and his face is pretty average, but he has other stuff going for him like good style, well groomed, can tell he lifts by looking at him(he's done a few cycles) but it really just further proves the point that height isn't everything.

[–]1studentsensei 14 points15 points  (0 children)

I've found significantly less issues with my height as an adult than I did when I was a teenager. It became such a non-factor that it shocked me.

I'm 5'6 but most women are even shorter than that, or around that height.

But a real short Casanova once told me that "We're all the same height in bed."

[–]BeATrumpet 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Facial aesthetics trump all. If you're tall and pretty you will slay. If you're short and pretty you will slay less but still slay. If you're tall and average you will still have it easy but there will be resistance if you're short and average and below you'll run into difficulty. Ugly dudes no matter their height will really need to hone their game.

[–]drallcom3 1 points1 points [recovered]

I'm tall. As is "there's at best one guy taller than me in the club" tall.

It's not a guarantee for anything. Call it a headstart, an icebreaker. If you rely on only being tall then you can laid at a club, by a 5 or below that is. For anything better you still need all the rest. And let me tell you, looking like you lift is not easy at that height. I can add 40lbs of muscle and my friends don't notice a thing.

Being interesting, fun, successful is far more important.

[–]Yoasted 0 points1 point  (4 children)

agreed on lifting isn't easy at that height. I'm 6'4" but adding 40lbs of muscle or mass in general is defenitely noticeable. It is MUCH more noticeable on a person of shorter stature however. That being said, i'm on gear and can easily identify 5-10lbs gain of mass.

[–]wiffofass 1 points1 points [recovered]

I'm 5'9" 230 lbs shredded and juiced. Offseason weight 240-250 lbs. Veins on quads, abs, horse hoe triceps, forearms bulging of thick blue veins etc. I get all the attention everywere I go. Height makes zero difference. Guys (tall or not) either give a nod of acknowledgement and smile if they're alpha or look down in shame and avoid eye contact (most do that). Guess what. Women notice how other guys act around me.

TL;DR get big if you can't be tall. And make your voice DEEP as fuck

[–]MrVodnik 9 points10 points  (5 children)

How the fuck do you deepen your voice!?

[–]1Revo_Luzione 8 points9 points  (1 child)

There's a great book out there, "Change your voice, change your life." It's helped me a ton. It has a ton of exercises and practices. I do some public speaking as a part of my profession, and it's payed dividends there. Even better, I can now speak for two days in a row, a full 8 hour a day weekend seminar, plus socializing before and after, and never get hoarse.

Before the book, I would get a sore throat & have to take a day off of all speaking to recover.

Best part: My voice is deep and sonorous now. I get complements on it regularly.

[–]midnightreider 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Talk slow, and minimize the amount of air going through your nostrils when you talk. Practice by pinching your nose and talking until there’s only the very occasional nasal sound with your nose pinched. Pretty sure there was a post here about that.

[–]1InscrutablePUA 4 points5 points  (0 children)

It's all about breathing, specifically learning to breath into your diaphragm. Your voice should originate from your stomach... try it and hear the difference. Speaking slower also helps to convey gravitas

[–]TheDevilsAdvokaat 7 points8 points  (1 child)

I knew a scottish guy who was about 5'8". He was into lifting from an early age; I was barely twenty and he'd already been doing it for six years at 23.

So how did the girls like it? They loved it. I've been in clubs sitting talking with him while his latest girl was literally running her hands over his shoulders and arms and pecs and cooing at him (Seriously! He ignored it because I guess he was used to it.)

I do agree being short makes you a lot less desirable to a lot of women. But as usual "lifting" or doing weights helps a lot.

[–]ApwoperMuser 2 points3 points  (1 child)

How long have you been lifting? What is your workout plan and diet?

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 15 points16 points  (3 children)

Women do not fawn after tall men because they are better protectors, they fawn over them because of the sexual implication. 'Tall man' is a coded phrase for 'big dick.'

I was with you until this point. This is pure bullshit. Tall men are attractive because of dominance and presence and status. Nothing to do with dick size.

A tall man can pick up and throw women around in the bedroom in a way that short men, simply put, cannot

Not true: height works against you here because of the leverage effect of longer limbs. Let's not confuse height with strength.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Having a lower center of gravity generally makes picking up people easier

[–]1Revo_Luzione 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Women are terrible at estimating height, or dick length for that matter.

All sorts of thing affect a woman's perception of height. Your clothes, how jacked you are, and most importantly, how confident you are.

Bottom line: abundance mindset conquers all of this and more.

[–]Endorsed ContributorJamesSkepp 14 points15 points  (7 children)

Start deliberately dating taller girls only. You'll develop better frame and better game, but in the end, especially after you master your frame (learn to handle how you perceive yourself), you'll learn that as soon as you stop seeing your height as the problem, so will the women.

[–]rigbed 13 points14 points  (3 children)

Tall women are your key to tall kids

[–]Snazzy_Serval 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Start deliberately dating taller girls only. You'll develop better frame and better game, but in the end, especially after you master your frame

Could you explain that, why are taller women better to date than short women?

[–]Comeandseemeforonce 9 points10 points  (0 children)

6'3 here. Every time I hear of the short man's plight I cringe in empathy if that's even possible. Best of luck to you short bros

[–]WakeUpAlreadyDude 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I have a friend who's 5'4" and I'm only 5'9". I never really realized how much people shit on short people. Great guy and mostly has his shit together. Most women wouldn't give him the time of day.

Also, I didn't realize how much it made a difference for me until I was more brazen about talking to women. A lot of women won't consider me because I'm not over 6 foot. I'm taller than 90% of women, but many want the tall man. I just laugh at it now.

Women get away with a lot of bullshit that they crap all over men for considering. I did once tell a girl she was too tall for me, just to see her reaction. She freaked out. That was fun.

[–]1SirKolbath 65 points66 points  (3 children)

You're over thinking this. I'm 5'5" tall and give precisely zero fucks about it. I'm not saying that you're wrong, I'm saying that you put more thought into this one post about being short than I have put into worrying about my height since tenth grade.

Maximize what you have (Lift. Dress well. Be articulate and funny.) and ignore what you don't have.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

This is exactly what a redpilled Alpha is. No matter what life gave him he focus on getting the most benefit out of it.

[–]Paladin2903 15 points16 points  (6 children)

Guys are far too focused on height, nowadays. There’s a few reasons for this.....the world has become hyper-competitive, mainly due to the internet and the world-wide competition it brings.

Another reason is these feminists and “femidykes” are vicious cunts. As a result, they’ll try to shame and embarrass men for absolutely anything. Keep in mind that most women are not feminists.......

At least, not the ones that are pretty, and that you’d want to be your girlfriend. So, who gives a shit what a bunch of ugly ass feminists think?

To this day, the guys I know that are the best with women are 5’6” and 5’7.” They’re both very good looking guys (no homo) and give absolutely zero fucks. The more you think about and obsess over this shit, the worse it’ll be for you.

Height is just one variable out of a ton of variables. Former basketball player Manute Bol was 7’7” and ugly as FUCK. Do you think hot girls were lining up to fuck him? No, they weren’t.

Also, another thing to keep in mind is that damn near every guy lies about their height. That’s why girls think there are so many 6 foot guys walking the streets. Only about 14% of the male population is 6 feet tall and over. Average worldwide height for a guy is 5’8” tall.

Same with dick size....most guys lie about it, women believe them, and as a result, women think damn near every guy should be hung like a horse.

Just enjoy your life man...it’s too short to stress yourself out about this shit.

[–]kronos415 5 points6 points  (3 children)

At least, not the ones that are pretty

Umn where the fuck do you live? Because I live in a major city, ans almost every woman regardless of looks is a feminist. Or at least wears the flag and attends the mettings metaphorically speaking.

[–]BeholdTheHair 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Region can make a big difference, but yeah, especially in cities the whole "only 1 in 5 women identify as feminist" is a useless figure. I've known probably dozens of women over the years who don't explicitly call themselves feminists but who demonstrate all the same beliefs and behaviors. If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck but calls itself a steer, only an idiot would treat it like a cow.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Of course. Women are all feminists. Period. They may not dye their hair blue and go to protests, but they have the same basic beliefs and goals.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

ooh Im 5'6-5'8 (dont know actuals)

[–]finnabustanuut 7 points8 points  (4 children)

One thing that's important is lifting. My dad is about 170cm but he has a huge back and is muscular. You shouldn't over do it or take steroids because you will look like someone who's insecure. But if you look strong you will get waaaay less jokes. My dads height got never mentioned although he's 10cm under average.

[–]mubee94 4 points5 points  (2 children)

Agreed. A big back makes an imposing presence. No one would fuck with a guy with big back

[–]RedPillAlphaBigCock 1 point2 points  (1 child)

This might be easy for me to say as I am above average height. But I truly believe that It's all in your head. If you can 10000% ignore it and be confident as fuck - nobody will even question it. I know a short Asian guy and I have NEVER seen anyone question his height or ethnicity - he ignores it so completely that it is irrivelant for all of us.

[–]Pilliam66 1 point2 points  (0 children)

People will very rarely OPENLY question it, but that doesn't mean it doesn't affect how they perceive you.

[–]Red_Faust 2 points3 points  (0 children)

5'9 here. Average in my country, though sometimes in the past I've lost targets to taller/buffier guys.

I wear high heeled boots when I go out to look taller. They also fit my rockerish style, so all in all I look awesome, and have never gotten shit for it, furthermore, sometimes I even tease girls with this, if I find it's appropriate.

I see several things I wanted to nitpick about your post:

Just be aware of what this implies: if you think there's nothing wrong with being short, and you are wearing shoe lifts, you are lying to yourself.

NO. This is a limiting belief.

I see nothing wrong with being short (average, in my case), but I can clearly see that girls also prefer taller guys. So I cater to my audience, in a totally amoral sense: I outfit myself to look taller because I pull more that way. That's it.

If you do want to try them, I suggest wearing them for a limited amount of time to gauge how they fit and if it's something you wish to invest in.

I'd take it one step further. Try them in an outrageous way, like +10cms heels+lifts, as an A/B test to see if you get more IOIs.

It's the simplest A/B test you can do in your life, it's instantaneous (as opposed to say an A/B test being fat/normal/ripped, which can take months to achieve) and you WILL see an immediate difference in IOIs.

Then you can decide if you want to go back to not using lifts, or you can exploit this new superpower.

A lot of guys, well, the majority of guys, won't do this because in their beliefs it amounts to cheating. That's awesome for me, really. Less competition.

Being fit/attractive/well-dressed helps tremendously, but it is not a cure-all.

No, but you get more IOIs which means more warm approaches which means more % of success.

You guys could do well in learning to scrape all the minimal incremental advantages you can get, since it compounds. Or don't do it, whatever.

You have to accept reality and learn love yourself.

This is the most important point of all. But let me connect it with that previous point.

When you really love yourself, wearing high heels and/or lifts is not an overcompensation of your shortcomings but a way to sell yourself better to the irrational value judgers that are women.

Doing marketing for your product, or designing an awesome landing page doesn't mean your product sucks. If you really really love your product you have no cognitive dissonance in marketing it the best way you can.

P.S.: I've never, ever, ever, like, never ever at all, had a girl mentioning anything about my height after she's seen me without my boots. But I only take them off before having sex, and after the sex she'll always rationalize to convince herself it's been an awesome idea.

[–]Pastelitomaracucho 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I'm 5'7 or whatever that is... freedom units.

Women are attracted to guys that are around a head taller than them. Girls that are short will consider tall guys "too tall" often. So for whatever height there is, there is a market for such height.

Average height in the population will then play a role on your value: I am absolutely invisible in the Netherlands, but I'm at in my element in any Mediterranean country. Any rules here will have as much value for shorter men than for any other guy: stay in shape, be assertive and confident, build your own world and skills and one that has always worked fantastically for me: learn. how. to. dance.

And if you live in a place where everyone towers around you, just fucking move.

[–]brotein_synthesis 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This is a quality post and it should be put on the sidebar.

At 5'9, 6' in oxfords, I don't feel I have it that bad because I'm always in the middle height-wise but within a group of men in my city pretty much everywhere I am still the shortest.

Taller and better built men would implicitly or openly disrespect me even though I make three times what they do and that makes me angry enough to lift and consider a serious martial art as well. You can be short or rather ''not tall'' and still not take shit from anyone. This is key.

Put it this way: if you're short, try being more like Floyd Mayweather and less like Elijah Wood. As much as possible actually.

[–]8xin1nite 6 points7 points  (1 child)

That's not short, that's Tom Cruise height...

[–]Jonmad17 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Short men actually make less money and suffer pretty substantial workplace discrimination. Accepting preferences is all you can do when it comes to dating, but there's a real place for a public discourse when it comes to height discrimination against men in every other domain of life. If a tall guy is more likely to be hired than a short guy given identical qualifications, then telling the person being discriminated against to "harden up" is bullshit. Those people have a right to complain.

Dating is different because you're dealing with female autonomy and you can't force attraction. If you're a genetically unattractive guy in some way and can't change it, my advice is to just obtain meaning from something other than romance. Most sex is arbitrary and meaningless anyways; find something that you can be great at and attach your pride to that instead. If you accomplish something great you can end up leading a more meaningful life in your 40s than a guy who fucked his 20s away and accomplished little aside from that.

[–]The_Real_Cannaman 3 points4 points  (0 children)

This. Be stoic, get money (but don't sweat it), pursue your hobbies/sports, get buff as much as you can, dress well for yourself, get a dog and go in nature with him. Get some male friends who can relate. If some 5+/10 woman comes i'll happily plate her but that is all. If u wanna have sex just pay for it. Besides it's not dat expensive, they are usually hot and do really good in bed. Chill, enjoy life and be happy for things u have and don't think about things u can't change. Stressfree life ftw.

I was anxious and depressed coz i'm still a virgin and put dat pussy on a pedestool. And tried to be succesful as fuck but i realized that nobody gives a fuck even if i pick litter on the street. IDGAF.

[–]jrr6415sun 2 points3 points  (2 children)

do you have any shoe lift suggestions that don't look weird?

[–]RealFrizzante 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Depends of where you live i've tryied both the ones you put inside shoes and shoes with the lift already

[–]Snazzy_Serval 0 points1 point  (0 children)


Boots and "dress" shoes look the best. Basically shoes that you'd wear pants with.

[–]AmatureProgrammer 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Curious bur how do you handle it when a woman shit tests you on your height? How do you respond?

Also, I wish there was more height related content on this sub.

[–]1Revo_Luzione 2 points3 points  (0 children)

"Everyone is the same height when we're horizontal." Or some variation.

Or pressure flip, if she's a tall girl: "Your height and long neck makes you look like a giraffe. Giraffes are so cute! You can reach the top shelf items for me in the kitchen." etc, etc.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If a woman shit tests you on something it means that she see you as a potential partner,which is something that should make you happy unless you are an insecure bitch. TRP is focused on things you can change,not on things you can’t do shit about. If you were born brown you can’t be white,if you were born short you can’t be tall so why should you waste any more time talking about it instead of hints that you CAN change?

[–]Chad_Castle 1 points1 points [recovered]

I have somewhat of a pet theory on this subject. Like a lot of things it can be boiled down to a nature vs nurture debate.

On the nature side, women are just genetically predisposed to be attracted to tall men because they are more likely to be better physical protectors.

On the nurture side, short kids are more likely to be bullied and fear for their physical safety in their younger years. Something about this causes them to be more passive, less socially dominate, and less aggressive, i.e. less attractive to women. This lack of confidence and inexperience with women then carries on later in life.

Basically what I’m saying is,

“What if women only associate tall men as being attractive due to the stereotype of tall men being more confident?”

Which tall men = more confident is a stereotype that holds true for the most part. Hypothetically, alpha short men could still trigger her AF side. Just as a beta tall men can dry her up real fast as well.

[–]drty_pr 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Nevermind hooked. Even a casual user of hard drugs is out of the question for even friendship.

[–]Scabsandwhich 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I thought you were saying, "wrong like if you beleive the Earth's flatness is wrong." Had to take a better look!

As a short male, I'm 5'5", success rate with women is different; however, this isn't going to get in the way if you don't let it. Honestly, I have never really thought about my height past the idea that I am as tall as phife dog. It's who I am.

This post here was good/bad for me. Of course negelecting my height benefited my frame. Reading through this, I could feel reality sink in. Most short men probably would agree with your points.

I dont think I've gotten any taller since sophmore year in high school. I have yet to be, in ways I know, set back because of my height. Having sex with women 5" taller than you isn't as fun as a women 5" short than you, but I'll be damned if I'm ever with some whale I can't "pick up and throw around".

Fact is you can't give a fuck if women care about your height. That's going to break everything you are at the core, because both me and you are stuck at 5'5".

A young, fit, short & leading male will never be as succesful as the taller version. As a proposition, we have to game possibly 30% more women. In a way thise is a bonus, because who tf doesn't enjoy day game. On the other hand it is more work, but more work and harder effort reaps better reward.

Keep fightin y'all fellow short motherfuckers.

[–]redvelvet_oreo 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Good Post. I think it matter for short people like me and your self to accept our reality.

I will say though being short is not a fucking crutch to do nothing. I am basically same as OP maybe even an inch shorter. I was a very introverted and invisible person to most people. Now I have changed and have been more in the Alpha space while being more extroverted.. My reality now is most people don't even acknowledge my height or notice until alot later on knowing them. Usually maybe 2 - 3 months in knowing them. When the shit testing does start about it you dominate it and laugh. It will become a non issue really fast. You have one shot of passing or failing this shit test with people if you fail you will always look like the butt hurt short beta. The more you don't give a shit about it the better and the less people around you will even care about it.

In terms of women, yeah there are those chicks who just dont fuck with short guys even though they couldn't fit 4 inches of my fat cock in their mouth and my game is good but that still dosent take away your ability to pull women. If you go out and game and pull enough women and establish yourself y ou will still wind up banging hot chicks. Height is not everything, its an issue but its not the end of the world. Own it. Become Big Daddy Smurf.

[–]Jcart105 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Women always find themselves butting into the conversations of male height-related matters, and it will always perplex me as to why. "Short women have it bad too!" No. A short woman is valued far more in the sexual marketplace than a short man, and that is the stone cold truth.

Women are in a constant state of victimhood and want to be able to profit off of any new cases of victimhood they can squeeze themselves into. I remember just casually saying on short subreddit how women aren't nearly as influenced by their own height as men are with their own heights. Few minutes later... this cues multiple women to go on about how "even a short man is still AT LEAST A MAN" and that "short women have it worst of all" -- their solipsism knows no bounds.

Women do not fawn after tall men because they are better protectors, they fawn over them because of the sexual implication. 'Tall man' is a coded phrase for 'big dick.'

Or honestly they just have a poor perception and judgement of reality and go with feels over reals.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Wow, what an incredible and introspective post. Considering how well you can articulate this so calmly shows you've definitely surpassed the stigma and others can too. Seriously, thanks for posting.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (3 children)

I'm 5'9 so I dont to know if that qualifies as short, but I have had no height related problems except easy shittests once in a while

[–]Paladin2903 5 points6 points  (2 children)

It doesn’t qualify as short.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

He lives in Scandinavia I am pretty sure that an ethnic 5’9 man there stands out,and not because of his skin color.

[–]SnowMonkeyCracker 8 points9 points  (4 children)

Height in men is the equivalent of big tits on women. Neither characteristic has much relevance for day to day life, but each feature communicates to something deep in some members of opposite sex.

However, 5'5 jacked will beat 6'6 skinny fat almost every time. Just as a flat chested woman (eg Kira Knightly) will beat a big breasted woman (Melissa McCarthy).

Disclosure: I am the male equivalent of the women with natural gravity defying double D's.

[–]Satou4 8 points9 points  (0 children)

My Tinder profile says "No natural gravity defying DDs"

[–]Snazzy_Serval 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Melissa McCarthy

Why the hell is that your example for a big breasted woman?!

Just as a flat chested woman will beat a big breasted woman

I think you got that backwards.

Compare Kira Knightly to Stacey Poole

[–]plybianz 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Honestly its all about walking with purpose and keeping your head up and shoulders as broad as they can get. Walk like you own the place and people will notice and respect you regardless of your height. I'm not saying to puff your chest out and go over the top then you look ridiculous, just own your path really

[–]Copidosoma 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Interestingly, these points are 99% applicable to being bald as well. Wearing shoe lifts doesn't help much but the rest is pretty well spot on.

[–]shortandspicy[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

A lot of great input on this topic. I appreciate all of your insights, and although I cannot reply to every post, I most certainly am reading all of them.

[–]Monsterzz 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I've noticed women don't go for the tallest of men and aim more at like a tall but not too tall spectrum. Just like how very attractive people get approached less than more reasonable looking people.

[–]Boltinder 1 point2 points  (0 children)

When I read the part where women post height requirements on their tinder profile, it made me think what if men posted cup size requirements. How would that go I wonder? Good for a laugh I think.

[–]CreatedItJust2Saythi 1 point2 points  (0 children)

'You are a human being and you have value'

None in The Red Pill denies you have value.

The Red Pill is about recognizing the feministly and socially banned fact that to the female brain looks is your only important genetic value, a ban aimed at making beta-looks pay the bucks while alpha-looks gets awarded the fucks.

[–]maimedwalker 1 point2 points  (1 child)

5 7 in boots

My dude. If you rolled in the spot with boots and a fur vest on with n I'd think your the coolest cboy in the west

[–]Snazzy_Serval 1 point2 points  (0 children)

As a short guy 5'5, I'm not sure what I'm supposed to get out of this post.

Yes I know that dating is hard and women don't understand or simply don't care.

I know better than to whine about my problems and not to be the aggressive angry short guy. I know that life isn't fair etc.

The question is, what the fuck can I do as a short guy to start getting laid?

I'm already working in my career, I lift three times a week and I try to dress nice. Still not getting laid though so something is missing.

[–]warhawk109 1 point2 points  (0 children)

There’s trade-offs to either being short or tall. Certainly taller is better. But shorter dudes have certain advantages with weight training. A 2 lb increase in lean mass is going to have an immediate visible improvement in body composition on a 5’9 dude, whereas it might not look like anything on a dude north of 6’2. Also advantages in most lifts aside from deadlifts, since smaller range of motion. Smaller limbs means you can get large biceps/triceps relative to your size much faster than a taller dude as well. Less risk of injury also.

[–]metallicdrama 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Size only matters with your ego, wallet and your cock. Height only matters until they see what you’re really made of. Some of the biggest losers I’ve ever known were decent looking tall guys that had money. Some of the biggest Chads I ever knew were ugly broke mofos. Confidence.

[–]tranquilschizo 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Great read. I'm not short but 2 more inches would be nice. Between the 1 inch of my shoes and the dumb bitch mentality that gives a guy at least another inch, I'm at least "6 foot".

[–]WalterEArmstrong 1 point2 points  (0 children)

"I wanted to save this one for last, because I think it's probably the most important. You have to accept reality and learn love yourself. You are a human being and you have value." If we could get that message across to every short guy in America there'd be a lot less misery and self loathing. FUCK what other people think of you!

[–]Alpha_Jedi 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Great write up. I've been blessed to be on the taller side of the spectrum which can have it's own challenges, but this is a very well written post. Cheers.

[–]freedominlight2 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You know, a giraffe is taller than a lion but it’s not the King of the jungle.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I’m 5’3 and had 2 good relationships and 1 bad relationship and multiple little ones. I suffered many rejections in my life, but ended up helping me a lot in life. I got used to rejection, being alone. That helped me start two income producing businesses. I’m single, 31, and my main hobby is paper stacking.

[–]juiceboxguy85 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I love this article. This guy fucks! At 5'7" I am mostly invisible to women in public. However, for some reason about 10% of women are into me (my first wife was 5'10" and a stone cold 9). I just learned to go after the hottest of that 10% and not worry about what I cannot have. I love TRP. I don't even care when women cheat on me anymore because I know they will at some point (my experience and confirmation bias on TRP), and I will just get a new and younger one when they do. Although I'm up there at 52yo so I figure I only have maybe 10 years left as a player. Spinning 5 plates at any given time after 3 years of lurking on TRP. A plate breaks and I just get a new one. Thanks TRP and my fellow TRPers.

[–]Fucker_Of_Destiny 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I'm 6'4 give or take three inches and it's definitely unsettling to see how big of a deal some people women make height to be. even in daily life, I get more respect from other commuters etc probably just because of my height. The most sexually successful guy I know is 5'8-5'9 but he just makes up for it in other areas.

[–]notadaddy 1 point2 points  (0 children)

im not a short guy, but i have seen it with my own two eyes. Tall guy shows up to the dance floor, girls flock to him. Even guys that don't want to dance i've seen girls approach and just grind on them.

Height is not the most important thing in the world, WE ALL KNOW THAT, but to deny that it doesn't suck.....it just means you're a nice guy who doesn't want to believe the world can be so lopsided in SMV like that.

height, money, cool car, etc .....those are things that throw the SMV balance off the chart. Not in any situation of course, but in a meat market...dayum. I wish i was a lil bit taller......but if you can't grow taller, grow bigger.

[–]Fulp_Piction 3 points4 points  (0 children)

The start reads like excuses, like it or not wearing shoe slips to make you taller will get you laughed at (I'm 5'8" barefoot and would laugh at someone doing that) - your last point said to accept yourself yet you're advocating wearing slips? hamster spinning intensifies.

Taller guys are stronger, more physically imposing - they're just fucking bigger. It implies more masculinity (implies is the key word here), probably a bigger dick but why are you worried about some other man's todger? Chicks dig MASCULINITY, not necessarily height.

I'll re-iterate what you've said - girls have preferences. They'll tend towards tall guys, but that's outside of your control and way less of an issue than you think. Stop being short whiny pussies (the only thing worse than a short pussy), join a hardcore sport (rugby, soccer, gaa, mma), lift, act like a man, come back in a year and see if height really hold you back.

Bear in mind we're in an echo chamber where a massive amount of people who haven't got the memo about how life works can upvote what they want to hear.

[–]1roadmaptonowhere 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I'm 5'7, never had an issue with my height. This long post you wrote tells me you're giving too many fucks about this. It's all about frame really. If you resolve the underlying frame problems you have, you'll never ever need to worry about height again.

[–]blacklightsleaze 2 points3 points  (7 children)

If you are short that means some of your ancestors were short too. Which means that their shortness didn't prevented them from reproducing.

Anyway, I know some short guys and they are in both ends of the spectrum. They swag or they don't swag. First one do everything possible to improve and do it well with girls and overall with life. The latter just gave up or are waiting for some magic to happen.

[–]white_girl_lover 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If u are short, u can actually use that as an advantage when meeting people. Like, since both guys and girls typically expect u to be weak and beta, u can surprise them by having great conversation skills, strong frame etc... given that u put the work in. This will surprise people and actually make you seem more interesting and attractive bc of this shock factor sorta thing going on. Im not a short guy, so i may be wrong w this theory but i read someones comment stating this so take it w a grain of salt

[–]rep_movsd 1 point2 points  (1 child)

"There are real, tangible benefits to being tall" - this is so fucking true!

There are studies showing that tall people excel in all facets of life - a tall person automatically makes people submissive and has a better chance of getting what they ask for.

[–]OceanPoultry 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If you are a man, do not wear high heels ("lifts"). Women wear makeup bc they are ugly and insecure, but you are better than that. Embrace who you are or youre fucked.

[–]shortandspicy[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"Just be aware of what this implies: if you think there's nothing wrong with being short, and you are wearing shoe lifts, you are lying to yourself. I am not in the position to tell anyone what they must do, but it is something to consider."

In no way does that contradict with my final thoughts.

[–]Forcetobereckonedwit 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Agree with all except the big cock part. Women really don't care. No, I mean really. It's a nice surprise that may tip the scales in your favor a bit, but it's not a deal breaker unless you're dating a vapid cunt, and why would you want to do that?

[–]flatcologne 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Is being short really as much of a negative trait as this post implies? I mean I'm tall myself but it hardly seems to do me that many favours. Every now and then I get girls saying they like other things about me like my eyes or having big shoulders, but height never really comes up.

Given how much variance there is from guy to guy in traits like attractiveness and charisma, I really wouldn't think small differences in height would make all that much difference - that is if we're talking about differences of a few inches and not a heads difference.

[–]AJ_Ak47 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I am short (5'4) and I am not packing at all... (painfully below average) I'd like to echo the OPs sentiment. I had to learn to love myself and accept the hand I was dealt, the biggest keys to my success have been staying cool, calm, and collected which seriously helps me apply things I learn from TRP and life in general, also you can't let yourself be controlled by your emotions, weak people do that, beta's do that, there's a certain strength that gets projected when you're able to confidently control yourself.

And as other guys have said "girls don't you sex and you don't owe them your time, attention, or resources." If a girl isn't going to fuck/fuck with you then fuck them.

Be proud if you're short, be cool, be yourself, I had to tap into the good I DID have to offer rather than focus on what I lack.

I explain to my guy friends who are tall, fit, and everything a guy would want to be that I'm playing this game on hard mode whereas they're playing on easy. Accept your flaws, own your shit, tap into the stuff that makes you great and start to share that shit with the world.

[–]vitamann 0 points1 point  (0 children)

women who, upon first interaction, had made comments about my height, and because I didn't lose my cool, I was able to take them to bed and prove to them that it didn't bother me.

Shit tests. And I agree. 5'5" as well here.

[–]HansCool 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Work out and develop a sense of humor, you’ll do fine, you just won’t crush on tinder or pull an insta thot. There’s way more to happiness anyways once you’ve checked that loneliness box.

[–]baldginger69 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I did not read the whole post, but I have a buddy who is about that height and has always been really successful with women since we were in middle school. He's always excited to show me videos of him banging his girlfriends/fuck buddies and let me tell you, this kid could work for brazzers. He gets tons of girls (mostly taller than him). However, it's not like these girls know he has a huge cock before they sleep with him, but they are attracted to him due to how much confidence he has despite his height. Even if you are not hung like a horse, be confident just for the sake of being confident. He uses his height to his advantage as girls are very curious as to why a man of his height has so much swag.

[–]SteveRogersPill 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This post is great because as a 5’5 male I’ve never let my shortness EVER get to me. I’m not the most ripped guy but I’m trying atm., very outgoing, I do fun shit, and I’m not boring. When I started my TRP journey I was more worried about me just being scared to talk to women and now I get ioi’s from even tall girls. I’m still working on my game but all I can say is OWN IT. I never let tall dudes from approaching chicks at a bar or anywhere or intimidate me at all. So just own your shit. Love yourself, know your worth

[–][deleted] 1 points1 points

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