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While men dominate the physical realm, women dominate the emotional one. Where one is expressive, the other is not. Because of this design, men need women, and women need men.
Pain is a mans greatest teacher. When men go through pain, something happens in the brain and nervous system. An overload. The defense mechanism? Shut down. War, confrontation, fighting, and everything in between becomes significantly easier. No emotions, no suffering.
A feminine woman, however, will continually handle emotional abuse from chauvinistic men. She compromises, she apologizes, and she continues to stay, despite the unrelenting negativity of an unhealthy relationship. Because of this, a woman does not shut down easily, and she will move through the emotional realm with more ease than her male counterpart.
Stoicism, or toughening up, is the epitome of masculinity. The less emotional a man is, the better he is in his ability to handle the outside world.
To evoke masculinity, he must be abandoned, betrayed, tortured mentally or physically, and left to fend for himself with no help. Such is the truth of the making of a soldier, for example. Its always about pain. Its a sickening reality, one that led us to where we are today, but we must be grateful for the strength is has given us.
And this isnt to say that men dont have feelings. Of course we do. But dealing with day to day life, relationships, and problems, requires a certain level of composure. Leadership positions, especially. Much like relationships, the moment a leader breaks down, the entire ship begins to question his authority and ability to lead. Hell eventually be taken down and replaced with someone better, just as women betray and leave weak and needy men.
We will still smile. We will still laugh. We will still tease.
But underneath it all, theres a tough armor designed to protect us from the emotionally apocalyptic reality we live in. And only a woman who can truly captivate us with her irresistible beauty, with her smile and her kindness, can truly break through this armor.
It will take some time. You wont let her in. But shell pry her way through every single metal plate until she reaches underneath. It is in her nature. Youll be powerless to stop her.
We can sit here all day and pretend we dont want to fall in love, or we can admit to ourselves that were simply human. We can be in love and still be Red Pill. We can even get married and still be Red Pill. While relationships and marriage are not necessarily advocated in this writing, they are worth noting. After all, they are the reason we came here to begin with.
TRP is not about hating women. It's not machiavellian, spiteful, or even biased. TRP is about sexual strategy, improving relationships, and providing emotional and physical satiation for both parties involved.
Men fall in love the hardest because they love the hardest, as per the love hierarchy:
Men love women. Women love children. Children love puppies.
Its not falling in love that deters a man. Its the excruciating pain of the discrepancy between reality and our imagined expectations. Betrayal leaves permanent burn marks on the heart, but we must understand that this is the price we must pay to experience the addictive dopamine high that only love can induce. One thing is certain: If we are all to die someday, we may as well take advantage of the pleasures life has to offer. Food, wine, sex, and perhaps even love.
The devastation of a breakup is the one thing that stoicism may not be able to suppress. The emotions are too intense. In time, and as long as he still lives, a man will pick up his armor again and walk through the chaos ahead.
...only to find another woman. Or die alone.

[–]Immune2DNP 288 points289 points  (26 children)

"It’s not falling in love that deters a man. It’s the excruciating pain of the discrepancy between reality and our imagined expectations."

This is what all newcomers and guys in the anger phase need to internalize. While this sub is meant for sexual strategy, many guys still make girls out to be monsters.

If we didn't project fantasies and preconceived realities onto a girl, our expectations would be in line with what reality is. Then, when your turn is over or the plate breaks, there isn't a massive disconnect between the reality you had in your mind and what actually takes place.

[–]adelie42 18 points19 points  (3 children)

Jiddu Krishnamurti writes about this not in relationship to love, but everything; "strife" being caused what he calls "idea", looking at the world from how we imagine it instead of as it is.

First And Last Freedom was a really great book of his discussing this issue.

[–]Psychocist 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Big fan of Krishnamurti. Another great book is Freedom From The Known.. possibly along very similar lines as the book you mention. Essentially, all knowledge is of the past, all projection based on it. Therefore, knowledge is already outdated by the time it's been thought. The only truth is the ever-changing reality in front of you.

[–]El_Serpiente_Roja 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Albert Camus touches on this with his views on "absurdism" as well. The view that humans asign certain significance to aspects of reality that arent actually there.

[–]ebubax 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Replying so I can come back and remember that book

[–]trancedj 9 points10 points  (15 children)

“If we didn't project fantasies and preconceived realities onto a girl, our expectations would be in line with what reality is. Then, when your turn is over or the plate breaks, there isn't a massive disconnect between the reality you had in your mind and what actually takes place.”

This is exactly what I’m currently going through and it’s a mindfuck. I swallowed the red pill about 8 years ago. I spun plates for a awhile but found it too time consuming and decided to go the LTR route. I’ve had a few since and each taught me something new and helped harden me up. But my last LTR hurt worse than any relationship I’ve ever had before. Long story short, we were together almost 3 years and traveled the world together. I thought I’d found a NAWALT. Ultimately she walked away like it was nothing. Looking back on it, I can see that I projected all this fairy tell shit onto her and at the end of the day my turn was simply up. I’m not mad at her, I’m mad at me. I should have fucking known better and I chose to ignore all the red flags and warning signs. And now I’m stuck picking up the pieces of a scorched heart; one that she didn’t set fire to at all, but I did.

[–]Psychocist 6 points7 points  (12 children)

That sucks man. They're fucking idiots, no doubt. Find someone they can travel the world with.. still not good enough. When did she break up with you? Wasn't just after your round-the-world fantasy tour was it?

I'm in a position probably just prior to your 3 year relationship. Met a 23 year old virgin in Asia, have the ability to travel the world (and work), she's fallen hard, haven't spoiled her with money or anything and she just keeps coming back for more, sitting in my boring condo with me. She has a good family, respects her parents, has bonded with me big time.. and yet despite that, I know it is absolutely futile to attempt to build anything long-term with her. She keeps spinning up beta fantasies. I just look at her and I know that's how she feels *that second*, and that two seconds later she could feel completely differently.

Relationships with women have become about damage control, nothing else - what can I do to make sure this woman doesn't fuck my life up? That usually involves non-commitment.

What is the alternative in the face of these facts? Seems you slipped back into comfortable ignorance for a while. I've seen that behaviour in myself at times. Do we die alone in our caves because we're afraid of abandonment? I don't understand the end-game given the reality.

[–]trancedj 6 points7 points  (11 children)

She left last weekend after returning from a trip out west. To be fair, it was probably my own doing. I’ll try and explain.

I knew the whole time we were together that she only felt the way she felt about me “in that moment” and that the next moment/day was a new moment/day. It was up to me every single day to pick her up, give her what she needed/wanted, and try to enjoy our time together. It was beyond exhausting and I’m sure I lost touch with myself more than once trying to keep up with her emotional needs. Eventually I broke frame one too many times and showed anger when she needed comfort and boom, she was out. Dropped like a bad habit. Hard next.

Here’s the fucked up part. I didn’t really love her per say, I loved the IDEA of her that I had created in my mind; a blue pill ideal woman. When that reality came crashing down in mere minutes it was fucking devastating. It still is. I’m finding myself second guessing the decisions I made, second guessing my actions and it’s driving me nuts. But most of all, it’s the worst fucking heartache I’ve ever experienced and I’m not new to the game at all. I won’t argue that I caught a severe case of oneitis. I just never imagined it could happen to me after all I’ve been through with women; including divorce.

I’m not angry at her. I’m angry at myself for knowing better than to try and live a blue pill fantasy. I definitely slipped back into comfort and ignored all I’ve learned here. And now I’m paying a hefty price. The thing is, she was a rare girl. Much like you describe, low N count, had her own money and career, raised by red pill grandfather, no social media, she stood out from the sea of thots and gold diggers I’d dated/plated in the past.

“So what’s the alternative? Do we die alone in our caves?”

That’s the rub man. And it’s exactly what I’m struggling with. I can get a woman whenever I want. I have abundance mentality. I know game, I have my shit together. I could spin plates again, but what’s the point if I want a life partner? Maybe that’s my problem? Maybe life partners are just a blue pill fantasy sold by Disney? I also understand that being married is TRP on hard-mode. Either way, I’m taking a long hiatus from women for awhile while I get my head back on straight.

I know this is a long post, but we seem to be in questioning the same ideas.

[–]Immune2DNP 8 points9 points  (2 children)

Brother, you are likely older than me and more experienced, but let me tell you something from my experience.

NEVER, and I mean NEVER fucking let a girl question your reality. You know who you are at your core, you know how you got to where you are today. You were vulnerable and wanted companionship and support, that’s not fucking BP, that’s being a human being.

I hate when this place has a black and white way of thinking. Many times, you’ll see posts here hating on girls, calling them all bitches, sluts, whores, fuck toys. However, despite all of these posts, I think men get dehumanized even more than girls. I see posts about guys who want a good girl, a LTR, a partner who’s supportive, and they get ostracized: “haha BP faggot, Disney fantasy”. I think this forum is filled with a lot of bitter guys, guys who have been burned.

It’s normal to want someone to share a life with, go on adventures with, have fun with. You can lean on her for support too; this does not translate to her being a shoulder to cry on. You sometimes need to vent, want someone supportive, and want someone you can grow with: this is normal human being behavior.

While moving forward in your relationship, always analyze it through a RP lens. Do not project your fantasy of her being a 0 n-count, pure, never kissed a guy, housewife material, unicorn. At the same time, don’t project your insecurities of her guzzling cum by the gallon, getting gangbanged, and sucking Chad’s dick in the club. Look through the RP lens and recognize the grey areas as you see them develop throughout the relationship.

This is where the grey area comes in: don’t make her your emotional rock, you are still the emotional rock. You will still fuck the shit out of her, and hold her close afterwards. You will still maintain frame and call her out on her bullshit. You should be giving her the emotional rollercoaster: get pissed, get sad, show vulnerability, be stoic, tease her. Be a fucking human being, but be a man.

[–]trancedj 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I’m sure once the grief starts to subside I’ll start to see where things went wrong. Projection is most likely one of my problems for sure.

Thank you for pointing out that just being human and wanting companionship is not blue pill.

[–]trancedj 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Just coming back to this post and dude, thank you so much. I’m going to send you a PM.

[–]Psychocist 2 points3 points  (2 children)

That's rough.

It was up to me every single day to pick her up, give her what she needed/wanted, and try to enjoy our time together. It was beyond exhausting and I’m sure I lost touch with myself more than once trying to keep up with her emotional needs.

Seems like that was your mistake. I refuse to take responsibility for someone else's feelings. If she's down all the time, crazy, lost in her tornado.. I respond with nothing but disregard for her turmoil and yet remain present to it, which acts as a kind of emotional rock. If she doesn't eventually relax then I simply ignore her. If it's persistent (as it was when I was in a relationship with a BPD chick), then I leave. I don't find that exhausting because I'm not actually doing anything - it is simply calm abiding.

You've been through a divorce. How long was that marriage? You must have suffered worse losses in your life? I lost my mum a couple years back and it trivialised every other loss I could ever experience. Even if I lost the perfect woman 20 years into a family it wouldn't come close. Losing children would be about the only thing which tops it.

I didn’t really love her per say, I loved the IDEA of her that I had created in my mind; a blue pill ideal woman.

I think it's worth noting that this can be difficult to fight off in a relationship. It isn't just society feeding us these fantasies, your girl will be constantly building up this fantasy in her own ignorance and/or manipulation. That is really hard to discount, especially as you grow closer and closer to someone.

Alan Watts has a great talk about the delusion of love in a relationship and how we're constantly saying "I love you" to keep up the fantasy itself. Can't seem to find it at minute.

The thing is, she was a rare girl. Much like you describe
... I can get a woman whenever I want. I have abundance mentality.

I remember reading on Girls Chase blog a post called Absolute Abundance. He argued that though some guys have an abundance mindset, it is very much contextual. I mean we all have abundance mindsets when it comes to ugly, fat chicks, because we all know they are there waiting. But abundance mentality only matters in terms of the women you want. If that's a life partner, you gotta work on abundance in terms of life partners and drill it into your head that there are plenty of other women with low N counts, who are feminine, who have good families, who are looking for that great blend of alpha/beta to settle down with even early into their 20s. If you don't see them in your country, leave. I met this chick within days of being in Thailand. Feminism has yet to completely destroy the family dynamic. I'm sure it is similar in certain states in the US and in South America and many other places.

Maybe life partners are just a blue pill fantasy sold by Disney?

Yep. When in history have humans been able to survive for 80+ years? We're deluded if we think humans were meant for one-on-one monogamous relationships that last almost a century.

I also understand that being married is TRP on hard-mode

In terms of damage control, marriage is about the stupidest thing a guy could do. That's pretty much giving her the keys to your kingdom. No fucking chance will I ever give that kind of responsibility to a person, never mind a stranger with a pussy.

I know this is a long post, but we seem to be in questioning the same ideas.

Yeh, I think we are. Good luck on getting your head straight. Are you hitting the gym? If not, that's an easy way to sort your head out within weeks.

[–]trancedj 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I was married for almost 20 years and have two children. While ending that relationship hurt, I knew it was time. We were both very young when we married and neither of us really knew what we wanted or needed. My last LTR was different in that this girl checked all my boxes and I went into the relationship with a RP awareness and mindset, thinking that would ultimately protect me. Unfortunately it didn’t work out. At the end of the day I believe you’re right. Humans are not meant to be in monogamous relationships spanning multiple decades.

I’m going to check out that Alan Watts video you mentioned and hit the gym today. I lift as often as I can, usually 3 times a week.

Thanks for sharing your perspective. And sorry to hear about your mom. I can only imagine what it must feel like to lose a close family member.

Be well brother.

[–]Psychocist 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think this is the vid (no cheesy music): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhdj1Z5TUG8

Be well brother.

You too, man.

[–]Psychocist 0 points1 point  (4 children)

Hey, was just running through past discussions and noticed this. How are things going now?

[–]trancedj 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Man, it’s a crazy fucking world dude. I don’t even know where to start. I’ve been seeing a therapist (male, great guy) and that has helped me quite a bit.

My crazy ex is currently suing me for money she spent during our relationship. She claims it was a loan. I’ve refinanced my house and lawyered up so we’ll see how that plays out.

In the mean time, the dude she left me for died from a drug overdose and she was the last person to see the man alive. The investigation is ongoing and I’ve been interviewed as a potential witness to her crazy.

How’s that for a god damn romance novel?

[–]Psychocist 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Good God you know how to pick 'em! haha

Great to hear you've started some therapy. Even a couple of years can help greatly for many years after once you've learned the tools (CBT, etc). In fact, CBT didn't do too well for me and so my therapist moved me onto ACT (acceptance commitment therapy):

Accept your reactions and be present
Choose a valued direction
Take action.

This was what finally had me unstick -- moving past the reactions and emotions and whatever turmoil was going on and instead focusing on my values and actions based on them. After a while of that I realised I never needed to drive myself mental in the first place.

As for your ex, hopefully her crazy will be evident when/if it goes to court and put her BS into question. Either way only a matter of time before it's done.

[–]trancedj 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Yeah, therapy has been great. It’s helped me move past the trauma. It’s all fun and games until the woman you love gets on stage in court and you lose your rights. MGTOW is looking better everyday.

The pending lawsuit is hopefully her last attempt to fuck me over. God only knows since her new boyfriend od’d and her crazy is out in full bloom. She’s actually tried to paint me as a suspect in his death! Ignoring red flags can cost you more than you ever imagine. I never lived with this woman and yet I’ve lost my ability to move freely about my city without worry of her being in the same place, I’ve lost my gun rights, and I’m staring down a lawsuit the tune of 10’s of thousands of dollars. Not to mention being involved in a death investigation that I had absolutely nothing to do with. Fun times all around!

Therapy has been awesome. His methodology is described as “Mindfulness-Based Stress Reduction, Mindfulness-Based Relapse Prevention, Somatic Experiencing, and Hakomi Mindfulness-Based Experiential Psychotherapy”. However you want to describe it, the dude is awesome and it’s helped tremendously. I know therapy often carries a stigma for men, but finding the right fit has been the key for me.

Thanks for checking in with me bro. I’ll post an update once things settle. In the mean time, pray for me if you’re into that or send some positive vibes my way!

Peace

[–]Psychocist 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Man that really sucks. Just don't make the same mistake again! I'm very sceptical of any commitment passed the 1 year mark.

Cheers for an overview on the methodology. I'll look into some of those methods.

Stay strong! It'll pass eventually.

[–]SpecialistParticular 1 point2 points  (1 child)

You need to hold women to higher standards. "She just walked away and destroyed me but it's not her fault its mine" is a horrible mentality to have. She's an asshole. Don't excuse her bullshit. Excusing women's bullshit is why they behave the way they do today, because nobody holds them to account for being cartoonish super-villains.

[–]trancedj 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I see your point. Just to give you some background, we had a fight and I left thinking she would come back to my place and we’d have a discussion (I needed a breather). She bailed and hasn’t spoke to me since. But I agree, it’s childish as fuck after all we’ve been through. I only blame myself for falling for her in the first place. As far as I can see, she’s just being a typical woman. Kinda like the saying “if you play with a snake, you can’t hate it for biting your ass.”

??

[–]GunnarX 14 points15 points  (0 children)

So much this. Well articulated.

[–]Fiesta17 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The exact idea of the separation of Ego vs Self. How we see ourselves vs who we really are.

[–]Lintmin 0 points1 point  (0 children)

^ This is what helped me the most when I learned about this stuff ^

[–]dingleburry_joe 60 points61 points  (23 children)

Good post. I have been studying alot about stoicism and buddhism recently. Big fan of Alan Watts and how we cling to things and need to let go. Interesting thought for me to focus on is composure when shit hits the fan or something happens that make you feel angry/sad, whatever. Latly lifting and nofap has got me feeling so intense like a fucking bull. Will have to focus on keeping composure at work and with women. All about building that titanium steel frame.

[–]Rioc45 29 points30 points  (20 children)

I find stoicism can be a bit rigid in its application. too much stoicism without a "liberating" practice to balance and loosen you up (dancing, martial arts, running etc etc), and you might turn to stone.

Alan Watts is an amazing man. Listened to 200+ hours of his lectures on youtube. His messages on the need for spontaneity,the traps people fall in during their "spiritual development", and the constant state of contradictions that we find ourselves in living in a western civilization, are fascinating.

Link: One of the most profound messages I've heard

one of my favorite longer alan watts lectures

[–]NormalAndy 4 points5 points  (9 children)

I can't decide if Alan/ zen is compatible with TRP or not.

The zen part just allows things to be as they are and is not about pushing for what you need and self improvement- you are already perfect... my sweet prince...... bleargh.

But on the other side of it, there is no doubt that Alan was one smooth talking motherfucker in the right place at the right time, perfectly placed in California during the 60's and no doubt knee deep in pussy and more plates than a pottery.

Don't get me wrong though, there is a great place for meditation when it comes to composure and frame and I love Alan's writing.

[–]Psychocist 11 points12 points  (0 children)

None of this stuff is compatible. It's philosophy. Krishnamurti (as mentioned above) is not compatible with Buddhism is not compatible with Watts own tune it's not compatible with Stoicism is not compatible with TRP.

Learn from others but live by your own philosophy. You'd go mad trying to fit all of these philosophies together.

[–]dingleburry_joe 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I disagree, for me I listen to him and take what I want out of it. Not everything he says is for me but like u/Psychocist said you live by your own philosophy. I bend this shit to my will. It's just like the many endorsed contributors on this sub. I can go into long detail, but his shit puts me in the mindset I need to be in to overcome emotional turmoil and all the anger and sadness with realizing the reality we in TRP know. To fucking let go of outcomes, stop clinging to religion, to people, to friends, to women, desires, etc. It's fucking empowering because there's nothing to hold onto when you realize it. In this way I got the dames clinging to my dick. It builds the DGAF attitude because you've accepted impermanence. I was thinking about making a post on it to discuss in detail but dunno.

[–]NormalAndy 1 point2 points  (0 children)

In a nutshell, Alan/ zen grounds you and let’s you know where you are coming from. That’s a great realization in itself. After many years ‘sitting quietly and letting the grass grow’, I realized I was being so supple, I was being bent over backwards and being a ‘nice guy’ about it. Hence the new awakenining into the red pill.

[–]hakubamatata 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well being centered is a goal we can all subscribe to... some points described by Alan may hold different weight to different people... just as some of the agreed upon TRP principles would...

I think the zen element is external to how you live out your physical life... so I think that rapid self improvement and being at zen with the universe can totally be in sync...

If our lives are like a blank canvas to paint a painting then it’s up to each individual how creative they wish to be... and how much paint they want to use

[–]Rioc45 1 points1 points [recovered]

There is no doubt that Alan was one smooth talking motherfucker in the right place at the right time, perfectly placed in California during the 60's and no doubt knee deep in pussy and more plates than a pottery.

I think to focus on whether he had success with women is to miss the point of who he was and what he had to say.

[–]NormalAndy 1 point2 points  (1 child)

In the preface to ‘zen, the watercourse way’, real sadness was expressed by Alan’s co-writer towards his alcoholism. How he drank vodka excessively and especially before his talks.

It’s better to see Alan Watts as a man, more than some kind of unreachable deity. The fact that even he had his own demons to work on shows just how far we can go if we continue to work on our own failings and become our best selves.

[–]rationalityiskey 0 points1 point  (1 child)

It is.

Zen is simply the awareness of reality and being able to live in the moment. TRP's philosophy might be specialized in sexual dynamics but it's ultimately also a guide to reality. They're all parts of the whole that makes up reality, and we're all here to learn to live fully in it.

[–]NormalAndy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Imo zen deals with conscious awareness (context) while TRP gives you something to aim for (conscious attention). Being in control of these and being able to discriminate between the two is ‘sati’ ( powerful mindfulness).

We learn to balance weight more effectively by adding weight to either side.

[–]Psychocist 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Out of Your Mind series of Watts lectures are great!

[–]dingleburry_joe 2 points3 points  (8 children)

. Its very empowering once you have a good understanding of him I listen to him alot to. Calms the mind so you can focus on goals and womenz

[–]hakubamatata 2 points3 points  (7 children)

I find the ultimate is Alan Watts remixes to deep chill house, a lot of DJs have been making a lot of it... and oh it is good.

[–]me2themax2 1 point2 points  (5 children)

Can you suggest a couple? I feel like I could ride to sum WattsChillHouse

[–]hakubamatata 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Jacoo and electus have a few gooduns off the top of my head

[–]Pestilence1911 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Jordanpetersonwave.

Akira the don does a few other ones too.

Go! -jockowave. Is really good too.

[–]AwkwardEmpath 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Couldn't agree more.. I love writing and listening to these, maybe smoke a bowl every now and then and listen to them as well.. they're really well made.

[–]adelie42 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Bear in mind, as I am sure you encountered, that Stoicism was developed to ignore the reality of war so they could keep killing people without one's pesky consciousness or humanity getting in the way.

Buddhism in my view is opposite. It isn't about "getting hard" so nothing effects you, but allowing yourself to be present to allow your experience to flow. For example, something makes me mad, then I may go through a whole turmoil about how I felt about getting mad, intellectualizing and analyzing it and judging it. Being mad was real, everything after that is a trap of expectation.

Buddhism says to honor anger, respect it, and be responsive to it as necessary. The amazing part is that often that honesty / self-empathy is enough. The difference between that and reacting to our expectations / fantasies is completely different but can seem subtle.

[–][deleted] 24 points25 points  (1 child)

I employed stoicism (based on my limited understanding of it) this past week at my job after having a bad time. It made everything easier. My boss actually gave me some respect at the end of the week.

[–]MAWL_SC 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Marcus Aurelius' Meditations.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

It’s not falling in love that deters a man. It’s the excruciating pain of the discrepancy between reality and our imagined expectations. Betrayal leaves permanent burn marks on the heart, but we must understand that this is the price we must pay to experience the addictive dopamine high that only love can induce. One thing is certain: If we are all to die someday, we may as well take advantage of the pleasures life has to offer. Food, wine, sex, and perhaps even love.

Absolutely brilliant. That would black pill some men new to this thing. Reminded me of this quote from I don't know where:

"A knight in shining armour is a man who's metal has never been truly tested"

Ironically, those who look like (and act like) they just crawled out of a snake infested lava pit bear the scars of a former lover.

[–]dialecticwizard 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Stoicism is defending yourself against an imagined enemy. Objecticivism is understanding reality and arranging your life to continue moving forward whilst covering all the bases...or the art of reason Humans are a mix of biology and reason. You cannot wish away the biology. But you can surmount it in pursuing the fruits of reason. In the course of doing so, there is little point arguing with biology. Simply ensure that it does not overturn that part of your reality that depends on reason. In fact it is fair to say that once one excels in the realm of reason, the world of biology is less intimidating and one can handle it with equanimity. Most cannot. Just make sure you are not one of them.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Bill Belichick has the same weathered face on no matter what. Enemies don't know what he's thinking.

And his players always know he has things under control. He is a leader of men. He makes grown fucking men getting paid millions feel safe on the biggest of stages and puts fear in his enemies.

Imagine how safe a woman feels with a stoic man who always seems in control.

Stoicism during shit tests, important emergencies, the like are tenants of the RP in action. Stoicism is highly underrated here. Not giving a fuck and being able to handle any situation-incarnate.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Also he despises the media. Wonder why

[–]daffy_duck233 20 points21 points  (5 children)

This post is without any substance, but merely relies on a catchy title. Yes, there are TRP observations being thrown up here and there, but what do they all have to do with your title: Stoicism is an evolutionary defense mechanism in men? Then it is also misleading. It was not "designed to protect us" but we all rather apply it to our own situation.

While Stoicism requires conscious and consistent disciplining of the mind, defense mechanisms are not. Defense mechanisms are unconscious processes used to protect your sense of self from pain or trauma. In this way, you cannot link Stoicism to everyone's favorite buzz word "evolutionary".

[–]Wabbajak 10 points11 points  (0 children)

I believe it is the classical confusion between being a stoic and being a Stoic, or not being aware of the fact that there is a difference between the lowercase and uppercase word. Being stoic refers to the commonly used definition of the word, namely suppressing emotions, overcoming pain without complaining, being utterly rational and cold. A Stoic, however, is a practitioner of the complex Greco-Roman philosophy of life that is about living in accordance with nature (eudaimonia) by applying virtues (arête) in order to reach tranquillity of mind (ataraxia).

OP's article is what one refers to as "Stoicism light", a text which is aimed at being self-help by using something that is remotely similar to Stoicism, without ever going into too much detail or bothering what the philosophy is actually about.

[–]TycoonWannaBe 11 points12 points  (0 children)

You are totally right and I was confused with the title as well.

Stoicism is very broad philosophical term and it's a choice, not something unconscious that nature just gives to people.

Stoicism is a tool to comprehend the strenght of our will power and molding our own reality by reaching a state known as "ataraxia" which is the same as a state of imperturbability, that's basically what RP calls "frame" and "not giving a fuck".

You can tell OP is well intented with this post and it does have value, but the terms are used incorrectly all over it.

[–]xRedStaRx 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Good point, but not entirely true. Some people need to consciously become stoic, others develop it naturally through trauma and stress. I was stoic from age 13, and read on Stoicism some 10 years later, and it bothered me that I wasn't the first to come up with a philosophy around it, felt like reading my mind.

[–]Windforce[🍰] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Good clickbait title, irrelevant and pointless content.

[–]O_Son 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Op is saying that Stoicism is a defense mechanism which comes about in response to environmental/psychological stressors. Women navigate the world through emotional means while men have the choice of either letting the world guide us and being subject to physical and emotional stressors or being stoic and being unmoved by emotional stress which allows us to exercise more control over our lives. There's the physical world and there's the social/emotional world, the more time you devote to one world the less time and energy you have for the other- as above so below.

The second half of the post is about how you can take this to the extreme of not being moved by anything or you can exercise more flexibility and be taken along for the ride while still keeping emotions relatively in check. The Stoics believed that the "the path to happiness for humans is found in accepting this moment as it presents itself, by not allowing ourselves to be controlled by our desire for pleasure or our fear of pain"* and that is essentially what OP is saying in the last part of the post: that we hurt ourselves more than anyone because of our expectations. We're not accepting things for what they are so subsequently we're being controlled by desire and fear.

It’s not falling in love that deters a man. It’s the excruciating pain of the discrepancy between reality and our imagined expectations. Betrayal leaves permanent burn marks on the heart, but we must understand that this is the price we must pay to experience the addictive dopamine high that only love can induce. One thing is certain: If we are all to die someday, we may as well take advantage of the pleasures life has to offer. Food, wine, sex, and perhaps even love.

I think what your taking issue with is the term defense mechanism, stoicism isn't a classical defense mechanism but it's a mechanism which can be used to avoid pain and maximize reward and it could very well have came about as a way to deal with the world.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (3 children)

Based Nietzsche shitting on Stoicism:

You desire to LIVE "according to Nature"? Oh, you noble Stoics, what fraud of words! Imagine to yourselves a being like Nature, boundlessly extravagant, boundlessly indifferent, without purpose or consideration, without pity or justice, at once fruitful and barren and uncertain: imagine to yourselves INDIFFERENCE as a power--how COULD you live in accordance with such indifference? To live--is not that just endeavoring to be otherwise than this Nature? Is not living valuing, preferring, being unjust, being limited, endeavouring to be different? And granted that your imperative, "living according to Nature," means actually the same as "living according to life"--how could you do DIFFERENTLY? Why should you make a principle out of what you yourselves are, and must be? In reality, however, it is quite otherwise with you: while you pretend to read with rapture the canon of your law in Nature, you want something quite the contrary, you extraordinary stage-players and self-deluders! In your pride you wish to dictate your morals and ideals to Nature, to Nature herself, and to incorporate them therein; you insist that it shall be Nature "according to the Stoa," and would like everything to be made after your own image, as a vast, eternal glorification and generalism of Stoicism! With all your love for truth, you have forced yourselves so long, so persistently, and with such hypnotic rigidity to see Nature FALSELY, that is to say, Stoically, that you are no longer able to see it otherwise-- and to crown all, some unfathomable superciliousness gives you the Bedlamite hope that BECAUSE you are able to tyrannize over yourselves--Stoicism is self-tyranny--Nature will also allow herself to be tyrannized over: is not the Stoic a PART of Nature? . . . But this is an old and everlasting story: what happened in old times with the Stoics still happens today, as soon as ever a philosophy begins to believe in itself. It always creates the world in its own image; it cannot do otherwise; philosophy is this tyrannical impulse itself, the most spiritual Will to Power, the will to "creation of the world," the will to the causa prima.

[–]dialecticwizard 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Subjectivism versus objectivism. The eternal story of humans in endless wars with the windmills of their minds.

[–]TycoonWannaBe 3 points4 points  (0 children)

But to my understanding Nietzche's conception of what "Nature" is wasn't the same of the Stoics...

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

There is no design in evolution, just letting you know.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks. I was also wondering if the invisible hand in capitalism is literal or figurative.

[–]adelie42 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I like to think of pain as a muse or inspiration. I am skeptical that it can be a substitute for study.

Stoicism was developed for war and the writings and reflections on it are ubiquitous. For another view I would recommend Warren Farrell's Myth of Male Power. He looks at how men are treated as disposable in society, and trained from birth to fulfill that role.

Also, it is less important that on average women are marginally dominant in the emotional realm; that's just an outcome. What is more important is what you can add to your own toolkit:

For a tactical guide, Never Split The Difference, How to Negotiate Like Your Life Depends On It by Chris Voss is a great guide. it is literally a handbook for using empathy to survive situations where a person may be intent on killing you. How to use the tools in non-lethal situations comes across rather obviously, and explicitly.

For something more theoretical / abstract, Nonviolent Communication, A Language For Life by Marshall Rosenberg. A valuable and technical analysis of empathy, from what it is to how to give and get it, particularly to/from yourself.

[–]YareDaze 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You don't understand what stoicism is, please don't taint stoicism with TheRedPill

[–]MISFU88 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Seriously just read Meditations by Marcus Aurelius. It s a rather short, and with the newer translations, easy book with so much to offer.

That said, actually practising stoicism is very, very hard.

Good luck to all of you.

[–]jinglebells89 1 point2 points  (3 children)

The note about when a leader breaks down the entire ship goes down is very true but in a much darker, enlightening way.

I got ran over a few years ago by a cluster b woman. I spent a night in jail because of this woman. That's not the point of this post but it's relevant.

Before the fallout I was a manager at the company I worked for. I had a team of 15 reps I managed. I had worked hard over the years to develop my social skills and prided myself on my ability to engage with others and lead. I was a shy kid growing up and my social confidence at that point made it seem like I was a natural.

Then the fallout...I was a mess. I ended up getting fired and actually reached out to people I worked with for help. There was no help to be found. What was truly interesting in hindsight, devastating when it was actually happening, was the outright disgust and contempt these people had for me. It's like their brains didn't know how to handle seeing a leader at his lowest point in life. All these people, both at work and outside of work, who were on my nuts because of my social prowess and confidence were outright repelled with me when I had my breakdown. It was unbelievable.

[–]DatingCoach111 1 point2 points  (2 children)

It’s a depressing truth when you realize women do the same thing. Nothing but disgust after she leaves or cheats.

No one will love you more than you.

[–]jinglebells89 1 point2 points  (1 child)

It was such a dark moment in my life because of the mass betrayal I experienced all at once that I really went through the valley hard.

I've obviously done a-lot of wondering about human nature and how people can be so cruel but I finally realized that people are acting that way out of their own uncomfort. That's what I liked about your post so much is that it doesn't demonize people as being evil but it does not mean being blissfully ignorant of reality and how people are most likely going to act in certain situations.

I'm slowly starting to gain my faith in humanity again but I'm much more realistic about what to expect from others. This has lead to a whole new period in my life of self reflection and growth and learning how to love myself, which as you said is all that you can do.

It takes a very strong, self enlightened man to still care for others even after you've been hurt tremendously. That's empathy. To have empathy for the human race which is full of betrayal, cowardice and what can appear to be outright evil is very difficult. But it starts by realizing that the way most people act is due to them not wanting to be hurt, even if that means expelling someone from their reality who they can't stand to see the suffering of.

[–]DatingCoach111 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Agreed on all accounts. People aren’t inherently evil, especially women. We’re all just trying to avoid pain.

Self-centeredness is the best thing a self-aware individual can do. If you know how Black Holes in space work, they pull everything in via gravity, including light. What most people don’t know, however, is they emit something called Hawking Radiation, which is just another name for energy.

In my opinion, I believe humans work in the same manner. Focusing inward doesn’t conserve energy, it releases it. Pregnant women have to be selfish for their babies, and by coincidence, soon-to-be mothers have that pregnancy “glow”. Men who are the life of a party always seem to have that “edge”, as well. It’s the same energy emanating from these individuals, but in their relative male and female forms.

Always focus inward. That’s where true happiness lies.

[–]awakenedspirit1 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Great post man. From pain comes growth.

[–]dinnerwithfunions 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think that's also the point of religion and story telling. The hero story gives men this sort of psychological strength/passion. Would be interesting to see some research on that concept.

[–]uwey 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Knights in his shining armor shows that he never got his metal truly tested.

Never underestimate a old Soldiers, for he to be in profession every man die young. He lives.

Failure but no death is the best lesson.

[–]Cultist_of_Mars 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You are Machiavellian. Philosophy is the most tyrannical Will to Power.

[–]turtle-temptation 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Really needed this post to make some realizations. Thanks man!

[–]blackleaf31 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Dying alone is an increasingly likely option.

[–]Redsqa 0 points1 point  (0 children)

But underneath it all, there’s a tough armor designed to protect us from the emotionally apocalyptic reality we live in. And only a woman who can truly captivate us with her irresistible beauty, with her smile and her kindness, can truly break through this armor.

Pfffrt. Stop reading romantic 18th century novels for a while

[–]Universe789 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So in the context of this theory... soldiers, cops, first responders, gangsters, prison inmates, etc who have PTSD are just "too soft" and need to toughen up?

[–]BurnDownTheMission68 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oxytocin is the love drug, not dopamine

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

stoicism is built into all humans. and mammals. our 'higher thinking' brains are the ones that lead us into stupidity. I dont see any reptiles getting emotional

[–]DarkMountain666 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I agree but not to a full extent. Emotion is a part of being human and it is difficult to not let it sit in the way of stoicism. At least for me.

[–]Endorsed ContributorReddJive 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Among the unique abilities that men have it is our ability to compartmentalize hardship, emotions, and current situations in order to accomplish a task/goal, that truly sets us apart between the sexes.

Stoicism is a method of showing how it is done.

I once asked a sergeant of mine how he dealt with the things he had seen and done in war. He had been in a few more fights than me. He said

You don't. Who could. Do you really want to talk about that stuff your whole life? You put it in a box. Lock the box. And never open it.

Despite the truly traumatic issues caused by memories, men move forward with their day by being able to put things in a box and dealing with them when they need to be dealt with. We can set aside emotion in order to accomplish a goal.

I am me. Not what happens to me nor the events around me

[–]Zech4riah 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well written and I can really see that you have gone through the process more than once and analyzed it through red pill lense.

And this is something I've been trying to say only to be labeled as a blue and/or purple pilled. It's essential to admit, that we have the feelings and possibly feelings like love, to be able to deal with the emotion correctly that it doesn't lead us to damnation (oneitis etc.). If we don't admit and recognize "the problem", which is falling in love etc, we can't use TRP as a tool to fix the problem.

We can sit here all day and pretend we don’t want to fall in love, or we can admit to ourselves that we’re simply human. We can be in love and still be Red Pill. We can even get married and still be Red Pill.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I disagree, after getting redpilled, simply by knowing the truth about how women experience love, made me automatically unable to love women, not because of fear or anything like it, im not afraid in the slightest, but the feeling just doesnt trigger anymore regardless of how good a woman seems to be. They are just not interesting anymore considering they will only be with me on the basis of brifaults law.

You give women to much credit in the way yu write, they are not sophisticated in their design, women are very simple creatures who are less evolved than men are since they rely on us for almost everything.

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