Red Pill TheoryIf guys suddenly stopped asking women out, would women begin chasing men? (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by 1m4ch1ina

(This was a question I recently encountered on Quora. The answer below was written by Lucas Lundstrom, a Quora user, and I found it a very insightful read.)


This, in fact, has been tested large scale.

Japan is in dire national crisis because of this.

The issue is a bit complex, but can be summarized as that the Japanese men gave up on women because it was simply not worth it any more. They were expected to make the first move, pay for things even when the woman earned a good living, be the active part in love making, work double jobs and hardly be home just to meet expectations, give grandiose gifts at many, many days similar to Valentines day around the year, and so on. The women had grown away from the old ways of being considerate, supportive, warm, and kind and were now instead generally much more cold, distant, career driven, demanding, and selfish - but still held up all the demands on men which men had previously filled as a balance. Not 'I scratch your back - you taunt me for not making as much as my brother'.

They found that they could just put their foot down and say no. No more. Sex could be replaced through masturbation with VR and other tools and an advanced pornographic culture, or prostitution. Deep personal conversations, blowing off steam about your manager or best friend could be had through special business who cater to specifically this with trained hostess staff who have regulars. Having your head on someone's lap while watching a movie - also available. Etc., etc. The Japanese culture turned out to be very good at figuring out what little details in a relationship is actually important to us on a deep level, like having someone hold your hand while you are doing thisor listening to you explain how you feel about that, and then making a business of exactly that little niche.

So it happened. The Japanese men at a quite extreme and alarming rate started saying no to marriage. No to girlfriends. No to girls. They did not go into situational homosexuality as a cultural prison sexuality either, at least not in any major scale. Instead they found that with all that free time and available money to spend on anything that made themhappy they could have the worlds most extreme entertainment culture at the tip of their fingers. Games galore! Interactive movies, perverse comics, cool neo-sports, and so on.

So. How did the women react? Did they say "Oh, shit. We done fucked up now… Let's show the men that we are worth it. That we are actually really nice and warm too even if we are more independent than before. That we are loving and kind." No. They started using the term "Sōshoku(-kei) danshi", herbivore or grass-eating men, to condescendingly refer to those who reject the pleasure of the female flesh. They started large scale mocking all these men who refuse them. Claiming that they are not real men , that they are gentle, mild, sissy, closet gay, small boys, etc. This, er, did not get the men to come back. It made other men who saw how the women in large scale culture acted join the herbivores. And now it just spins like this, with the women pushing away the men further instead of chasing after the men.

As of now more than 60% of all men in their 20s are Sōshoku danshi. Here is the wiki for the phenomenon: Herbivore men - Wikipedia

EDIT: For the FUCKTARDS who keep addressing me as if I am the author of this post, see the first sentence of the post, or, go back to pre-k and learn how to read.

[–]Endorsed ContributorRunawayGrain 697 points698 points  (87 children)

My though is that with 80% of women going for the top 20% of men, these guys are just saying "I'm not in the top 20%, so fuck it." You won't see much traction until later on, when the women in their twenties now start to age out, and want to round up a guy. Either that, or the top twenty percent guys all also bail out.

Claiming that they are not real men , that they are gentle, mild, sissy, closet gay, small boys, etc. This, er, did not get the men to come back. It made other men who saw how the women in large scale culture acted join the herbivores. And now it just spins like this, with the women pushing away the men further instead of chasing after the men.

This is just how any woman reacts when she gets rejected.

There's actually a debate going on, because the Japanese obsession with perfection leads to a lot of waste. Read about some of it here, mostly focused on agriculture. I see that as being at play here too.

Some of my Japanese exchange students had something like abundance mentality above and beyond anything I've ever seen. One had a girlfriend here in the states. He went to her family reunion and found out she had a family member with downs syndrome, decided that shit ran in the family, and dumped the girlfriend on the spot with no qualms.

[–]1Original_Dankster 175 points176 points  (44 children)

80% of women going for the top 20% of men

I think you hit on something important here. As long as women have access to 20% of men, they won't improve their behaviour.

A mental exercise now: What if a portion of those top 20% men started going herbivore / MGTOW as well (which is distinctly possible in Japan, though not happening yet)? Would womens' behaviour change? Perhaps only for those men in particular?

[–]TempleOfIron 83 points84 points  (10 children)

Even those '20%' type men are being fucked over by women. Just look at Brad Pitt. Women are hardwired to always want better. It's ultimately why they are utterly miserable. Because even when they have chad, they are never satisfied and will constantly test his strength. When he inevitably falls and the betatisation process takes over, he'll just be another simp in her eyes.

But to fall back on what you said. It would take more than just MGTOW for women to change. It's female nature. However, MGTOW is a personal journey of having true mastery over your life. Not being a slave to your biological imperative. Stripping away the manipulation that gynocentrism holds firmly over your life even if you call yourself 'red pill'. Ultimately, men should go their own way for themselves and not to change the current climate.

[–]CensorThis111 38 points39 points  (5 children)

And this is exactly where I wish TRP would grow into some more wisdom.

People want to pretend like morality and ethics don't matter, well guess what there is a very long and valid counter argument to that.

We have an incredible amount of control over our culture being at the top of the food chain. There are ways we could condition this culture into getting better for everyone, and it would be worth it.

Trickle down economics is a joke because power flows up. That's why our entire civilization has been built on harnessing the power of human slaves. Building up the weakest of us will bring huge benefits to the top.

A perfect example of this is the huge group of disgusting unfuckable women that were in a large part broken by society. Ya'll want to live in the land of milk and honey? Well if you could turn sewage into more honey that would be quite a trick. And considering the direction humanity is headed in, we're gonna have a huge supply of sewage.

We are all connected. Our relationships with others shape the future in ways we will never fully understand. We could still attempt to, though, and maybe even discover that there is a best choice to make.

[–]JJ3314 10 points11 points  (4 children)

While I think it’s worthwhile for redpill men to work in collaboration on an organizational level, much can be accomplished with a legion of men, all acting independently, but with redpill knowledge. I’m assuming that not all MGTOW, and RP types are just living in a cabin in the woods, or retreating from occupations that exert some influence on the world. Some people have the potential to be employers, mentors, and work inside the family court system, for instance, acting independently, but with an eye towards checking gynocentrism, and assisting decent and hardworking men improve their stations in life.

[–]NYCSPARKLE 87 points88 points  (16 children)

What happens is a market equilibrium where (1) the benefits for the top 20% of men are too great to ignore and continue GTOW, and (2) the women (as long as they aren't made to look bad), put up with it.

These benefits are:

- Open harems (recently took a day trip with an ex plate, a current plate, and three of their girlfriends. The plates were bitter and catty for about 4 minutes, and then paid-bonded with "OMG NYCSPARKLE IS SUCH A PLAYER LOL WHATS YOUR INSTA / LET'S TAKE A SELFIE!").

- More threesomes.

- One-way open relationship (main chick / side chicks, where the main chick not only knows, but still chooses to be exclusive to the man).

Side note on the main chick / side chick. AWALT, so can't count on main chick's exclusivity, but can generally expect her to be exclusive in that she is publicly displaying your relationship and fulfills all duties associated therewith. She tells guys she has a BF and doesn't, for example, go on formal first dates, etc. Will still probably cheat on you in Cabo.

Field report: This is the current case in major cities with small # of available, successful men and lots of women. I have a plate that's new to NYC, and she was introduced to this market equilibrium abruptly when she found clothing of another plate at my apartment.

I didn't even strategically respond to her shit test, I just was like, "oh, must be another girl's."

I thought her head was going to explode for about 10 minutes. She vocalized her thoughts / hamstering / anger / jealousy / other concerns all out loud to me while I cleaned my apartment and ignored her, haha.

Her main takeaway, after this, was "Ugh, I have to just be OK with this.." and then, like clockwork, she was aching for me to fuck her (we had already had sex that morning) to which I happily obliged and then gave her a little comfort cuddle (have to give a little in that situation).

[–]Morphs_ 37 points38 points  (2 children)

market equilibrium

I like that term (just like your whole post in general). The sexual market place is just economics, supply and demand.

I think ALL men would have to stop approaching for women to become assertive. I heard that in Finland women tend to be more assertive, as by culture there often was a shortage of fuckable men since most of them were fishing on the sea.

So the women that were assertive were the women that would get the guys that stayed ashore. And so this culture came into existence.

[–]RedPilledGodEmperor 8 points9 points  (0 children)

does a google search of flights to Finland. Books flight.

[–]TempleOfIron 43 points44 points  (7 children)

Benefits though?

  • Open harems (recently took a day trip with an ex plate, a current plate, and three of their girlfriends. The plates were bitter and catty for about 4 minutes, and then paid-bonded with "OMG NYCSPARKLE IS SUCH A PLAYER LOL WHATS YOUR INSTA / LET'S TAKE A SELFIE!").

I would rather do something productive with my time than waste it on more women. All they offer is sex and after you get over the high from sleeping with multiple women, you realise it's a fools errand. I see no benefit to having an open harem. Unless you cling to scarcity in which getting laid is a difficult feat for you. Pump and dump.

One-way open relationship (main chick / side chicks, where the main chick not only knows, but still chooses to be exclusive to the man).

And all that feeds is your biological imperative and ego. And what benefit do they offer other than their vaginas? Sex is easily had and you don't have to develop open relationships to obtain it. Instead you are dealing with 'shit tests' which really is just disrespect and drama. No thanks.

I thought her head was going to explode for about 10 minutes. She vocalized her thoughts / hamstering / anger / jealousy / other concerns all out loud to me while I cleaned my apartment and ignored her, haha.

Sounds depressing. All it does is feed your ego whilst rob you of your time and energy. The drama is parasitic. Eventually it will grate on you. Again, much better to pump and dump.

[–]NormalAndy 12 points13 points  (4 children)

I was thinking the same. City life seems even more about empty egos than ever before.

As trp prescribes though- enjoy yourself through the decline. Wow, what a decline... This is a good example of sex being held up as the be all and end all, which misses the mark.

[–]NYCSPARKLE 4 points5 points  (0 children)

And all that feeds is your biological imperative and ego. And what benefit do they offer other than their vaginas? Sex is easily had and you don't have to develop open relationships to obtain it. Instead you are dealing with 'shit tests' which really is just disrespect and drama. No thanks.

My life requires me to have a dependable, attractive main chick for periods of time (to be a wedding date, attend work functions, be my date for events, cook and clean in the fall and winter for me, etc.).

It's a trade off like anything else, but having a productive relationship with a solid main chick and also being allowed to have side chicks has a lot of benefits (for me personally, maybe not for you).

[–]loveladee 3 points4 points  (3 children)

NYC sounds awesome. I keep hearing the power dynamic skews super hard in favor of men, is it always like that?

[–]NYCSPARKLE 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Yep. It is probably the single best city in the U.S. to be a single guy.

No need to drive; everyone is Type A and assertive; big drinking / happy hour culture.

I think the mix of single women to single men is like 70/30.

[–]omega_dawg93 51 points52 points  (8 children)

but from my experiences with Asian women, they do not like to share.

so the 20 can't possibly marry the 80%... somebody has to settle for being the "side piece," and they don't generally go for that.

[–]1Jaereth 82 points83 points  (6 children)

somebody has to settle for being the "side piece," and they don't generally go for that.

At least in Japan, which this was written about, they absolutely settle for that. It's almost assumed that your husband will have mistresses and flings. It's ingrained in their culture.

I know some girls over there that have passed the age for marriage though, and it's a sad situation. When guys are turning away from the young girls with the creamy pussies because it's just too much of a fucking hassle at this point, imagine how hard it is for some post-wall Japanese woman to find a partner to have a real commitment to her. It just doesn't happen much.

From the outside it's hard to analyze, because many get married and have families. However, the infidelity is rampant among the married men. They have hotels that specialize in being a low-key place to take your mistress.

[–]LandoChronus 89 points90 points  (1 child)

and it's a sad situation. When guys are turning away from the young girls with the creamy pussies because it's just too much of a fucking hassle at this point, imagine how hard it is for some post-wall Japanese woman to find a partner to have a real commitment to her. It just doesn't happen much.

Oh fucking well. I have no sympathy for women who ignore intelligent teaching and go for the "have my cake and eat it too" lifestyle then find out that's not how it works. At least she'll have an army of betas to help rationalize that it's not her fault.

[–]Ragnarok314159 89 points90 points  (0 children)

She won’t have anyone to rationalize her choices. Most men in Japan do their own thing.

[–]omega_dawg93 16 points17 points  (2 children)

understood. my experiences with asian women have only been here in the USA, and they're relentlessly possessive (imo).

i can't speak on japanese culture (in japan). if it's like that, chad is fucking a LOT of women. geez.

[–]1atticusfinch1973 10 points11 points  (1 child)

I was banging a married Chinese woman for a while and the funny thing was she was doing it as revenge because her husband had an affair with a younger woman. She constantly said what a terrible person he was right after I'd finished doing anything I wanted to her. It goes across all cultures.

[–]omega_dawg93 7 points8 points  (0 children)

tldr: AWALT?

is that what you're saying? lol.

[–]tbpd 15 points16 points  (0 children)

There's also China's left-over women. It seems there's a pattern Asian countries.


[–]Pelikahn 15 points16 points  (0 children)

Good thing Japanese people already love cats so much

[–]theBreadSultan 30 points31 points  (1 child)

This will no doubt get lost but fuckit.

Japan is a special case because of their cultural norms.

Firstly, free time is very limited in Japan.

Second, women don't date strangers (lest they be labelled as slags), so it requires your social circle helping out, unless she is already in your direct social circle (status bs)

The format in Japan, unless you already know the person well, is that, unless you are. Slut, you only date someone you know. The bench mark is usually 2/3 times hanging out with girl and or other friends / wingpeople...before you can go on your first date

And if you think you are getting a fuck or even a kiss on that first date, guess again, lest she be for ever tarnished as a slut.

At between 3-5 dates you can socially get laid...

The issue is, due to the lack of free time, just going from knowing of girl, to date can take three months, and that's all of your free time / days over those three months.

That's the high cost. It's not about gifts etc, in fact Japan is very equal on that shit. Valentine's Day for example is a day where women treat the men.

In Japan status is everything. So either you commit huge amounts of time and social resources to trying to honourably date a good girl. Or you trash your status by dating a slut.

Girls are fucked in the same way.... But hey, at least the economy is doing well aye

[–]MazMazda3 53 points54 points  (34 children)

That is an absurd reason to break up with anyone. "Heyyyy, ummm... so I noticed your third cousin was a bit funny sitting in her wheel chair. I don't think we should see each other" Da Fuk? Lol

[–]zyqkvx 86 points87 points  (21 children)

Agreed, but his abundance mentality will always take him further than a less abundance mindset, even if he's wrong sometimes.

[–]manusiniectio 109 points110 points  (9 children)

He might also be Wong, given he’s Asian.

[–]Nitsujsith 11 points12 points  (1 child)

He most likely is right, given he’s Asian.

[–]Senior Endorsed Contributormax_peenor 10 points11 points  (0 children)

See, this is how to respond. Frame. Wit. Directness. All the things women get all gushy over.

[–]CommanderBlurf 79 points80 points  (8 children)

Slightly less absurd, if he were considering reproducing with her.

[–]rockstarberst 31 points32 points  (7 children)

Downs Syndrome generally isn't hereditary.

Of the 3 types of Down Syndrome that we've mapped, Translocation is the only one that could potentially be passed down -- and it occurs in less than 3% of cases. Trisinomy 21, the most common type, is completely random and can happen to nearly anyone.

[–]xddm2653 22 points23 points  (4 children)

Doesn't matter, if you could have any girl in the world you aren't gonna choose the one with in-family misgenetics

[–]Chad-IRL-68 1 points1 points [recovered]

This was also tested in San Francisco in the 1980s. The city was being flooded with gay guys, and the number of straight women was higher than the number of straight men. I came to SF in 1984 at 16 years old, and stayed until 1992. During those eight years, getting laid was never easier.

At least 2-3 times a year women directly asked me out on dates. One started by asking for a cigarette, then asked if I was straight, and then asked me out. In nearly every case I had sex with them on the first date. From ages 16-24, I never had to ask a girl out. In fact, I had no game when I left because I was used to women being the aggressors, which obviously wasn't the case elsewhere.

One the extreme downside, these women treated me horribly. 1980's San Francisco extreme feminism was at it height, and I was put down for being masculine; I rode a motorcycle, lifted weights, rock climbed, and other stuff. Being masculine in SF then was frowned upon. They were also abusive, both mentally and physically, but that could be in part because I was dating more aggressive women who were willing to do things like ask men out.

During large-scale wars, colleges also tend to experience this. I've heard accounts of women becoming the aggressors during WWII, much like what I experienced.

[–]FratboyOnReddit 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Sweet baby jesus please share more of these stories, any good personal ones? Any memories of which colleges? Where? Maybe field report write ups or history posts/articles? Anything please this is so interesting to hear about in America, because its so rare.

Side note... during WWII, in a class i took the teacher mentioned that all the girls wanted "intimacy" from all the guys (built, strong handsome men) hence the baby boomer phase.

Fuckkkkkkkk this rabbit hole always seems to go deeper than you think.

[–]mancozbi 3 points4 points  (1 child)

I was ... being masculine; I rode a motorcycle, lifted weights, rock climbed, and other stuff. Being masculine in SF then was frowned upon.

I would guess that you would have gotten laid in any society, not just a society saturated with gay men. Women are attracted to fun masculine men regardless of political correctness!

[–]fuckrbrasilmods 75 points76 points  (6 children)

Part of the problem regarding gender relations and mating is that women have been idealized both emotionally and physically.

Emotionally, some men (menchildren, guys w/ no strong role models or a wide social net of mutual support) believe women will nurture them in a motherly way. Most of the time, they will not: that is reserved for their own children. Don't look for a second mommy.

Physically, sexual drive is distorted by the idea that women's bodies are flawless. They're not: they age, they stink, they sag, they lose their attraction. That doesn't mean female beauty doesn't exist. It does, but it is often makeshift (make-up, bras, yoga pants etc) and most of all it FADES. Take that into account every single time you look at a beautiful woman.

Stopping idealizing women is the number one step for a more successful dating life and a more balanced gender dialogue.

[–]Traz_Onmale 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Couple this with Japanese extreme perfectionism and it's no wonder people rather go their own way.

[–]DeontologicalSanders 333 points334 points  (111 children)

One thing you can be sure of is that women will not take steps to change this or improve the situation.

Reactivity to male initiative is fundamental to how women work. It's not something that can be eradicated or adjusted. It's kinda fucked, but you really have to hand it to them: every woman has a pretty firm idea of what she's convinced she deserves from a man, and she's usually not willing to settle for less just because better is not available.

There is only one hill that women are willing to die on, and this is that hill.

These women are not suddenly going to go, "Oh no, I have realized the error of my ways, senpai! We must accept that men are no longer satisfied with what we offer and make ourselves more attractive." Have you ever known any woman to readily accept fault for a major problem?

No. Instead, these women are going to do what women always do: complain, and wait for some other men to show up and fix their problems. Namely, immigrants, expats, and foreign invaders. Grab the popcorn; this should be good.

[–]Drumcode-Equals-Life 107 points108 points  (44 children)

Even now, I see late 20s women with graduate degrees on social media claiming they won’t settle for anything less than the perfect man, as if they don’t realize all the men with similar education and adequate value are already taken, meaning they are destined for the life of a crazy cat lady, and seem to be just fine with that fact.

[–]recon_johnny 124 points125 points  (24 children)

and seem to be just fine with that fact.

No, they just don't know yet. What they want in their 20's sure as shit changes pretty quickly as they get closer to 30.

I've seen it up close with my family. Literally a female in her 20's demanded a type. Only when that type was not available despite her looking for years....well, her objective changed, without her acknowledging it.

And that's the key. They convince themselves their new reality is the way it's always been.

The girl now? She's getting married in October. To someone less than ideal.

[–]Drumcode-Equals-Life 70 points71 points  (23 children)

Give it five years, she’ll be miserable

[–]Fielder57 91 points92 points  (21 children)

My LTR's best friend is like this. She's 33, single and clinging onto anything left. For the last 2 years I've watched her go from dumpster fire to dumpster fire trying to find a man. Now she's settling for whoever will put up with her because she realises her value is dropping daily. It's actually sad to watch.

[–]recon_johnny 39 points40 points  (5 children)

That's the thing. Thanks to here, I see what's going on in real time...and I know exactly reality, not the bullshit I've been spoon fed up to now.

[–]Drumcode-Equals-Life 34 points35 points  (4 children)

Exactly, without this sub I wouldn’t understand the true nature of women. Now that I know, it’s apparent everywhere with all the single women I know now in the latter half of their twenties starting to freak out

[–]francisco_DANKonia 28 points29 points  (3 children)

single women I know now in the latter half of their twenties starting to freak out

They rarely freak out that early. Usually takes until about 33/34

[–]SuperCrazy07 13 points14 points  (0 children)

They get worried in the late 20s. Freak out in the early/mid 30s.

[–]a_desert_creature 21 points22 points  (1 child)

I'm still torn between the empathic feeling of loss for them and knowing they've made their own bed. It's tragic to watch and know what's going to happen every damn time. I have not managed to completely quit caring about my fellow human.

[–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (10 children)

Haha fuck. My wife at 38 was convinced she had enough smv to do better than me.

Only because I had turned into a beta fuck. I'm turning that around and already she is changing her tune pretty quick.

[–]Fielder57 25 points26 points  (4 children)

She has no idea what kind of world of hurt she has waiting for her if she was single at 38. All the men are either married, divorced and depressed or so well setup they don't need a woman anymore and just use them for sex.

Every day that goes by past the age of 18 the dating pool shrinks and shrinks and shrinks.

[–]midnight_metro 9 points10 points  (3 children)

18? I'd say closer to early 20's. No one is getting married at 18.

[–]cheerful_dude 6 points7 points  (2 children)

But the amount men who are willing to date them basically reduces each year, as those men will still want to date the 18 year olds.

[–]tempolaca 4 points5 points  (3 children)

She has lower SMV than you, but doesn't mean she can have less sex.

Women have unlimited supply of sex well past 40 and even 50.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (1 child)

Oh it's clear from her ventures that she can go have sex. The thing is, she found that she couldn't find any interested men that reached her high bar.

She's looking to best me, and although I did let myself go a little to shit over the last couple years, it was mostly my attitude that needed changing. Now that I actually tell her what to do when she needs it (and she well knows she needs it), she's given up on it. Not mention my own increased smv and some dread.

But yeah, if she lowered her standards just a bit, she could go out today and fuck 6 guys. I'd be pretty damn lucky to win at one. I'm way out of the game at this point, but I'm working on it.

[–]juiceboxguy85 3 points4 points  (0 children)

This is a good point I think about a lot. I believe in abundance mentality but the biological truth is a bottom 50% woman could get more guys than a top 10% guy could get women, from a cold start, any given day. You never want to get into that argument of "oh yeah, if you can do it, so can I". She can, you can't. If it comes to that, just next it, you've already lost.

[–]NormalAndy 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Yeah, the change is hilarious. They hate it, but it sure works.

'oh you want to split up? Excellent- shut the door on your way out and have a great life!'

Fuck you. I dgaf anymore.

Seems to have worked anyway

[–]red_matrix 88 points89 points  (14 children)

Women think men want a women with advanced degrees and a high paying job. They don't get it, and never will.

[–]187oddfuture 98 points99 points  (10 children)

They're just projecting what they want in a man onto men, assuming that men want the same things. We are simple creatures. We just want something pretty to fuck that's pleasant to be around. Women can't even be that anymore.

[–]xddm2653 51 points52 points  (4 children)

I make this point a lot.

Women like to act independent, bossy, and 'alpha' because it's what they're attracted to. Not much different from a nice guy acting nice because that's what he likes

[–]reluctantly_red[🍰] 4 points5 points  (3 children)

Women like to act independent, bossy, and 'alpha' because it's what they're attracted to.

This is basically a shit test -- if the guy pushes back watch how quickly they change.

[–]xddm2653 6 points7 points  (2 children)

It is but a lot actually believe they are exhibiting traits that men find attractive. They think a rich successful man will find their independence sexy

[–]Drumcode-Equals-Life 44 points45 points  (0 children)

Yeah, I just want someone that’s fun to be around when I get home from one of my two careers, I don’t need a damn rocket scientist for a partner

[–]blownnnn 3 points4 points  (0 children)

That's why actors can get a lot of women and attention. They can morph into whatever they want them to be.

[–]PS2Errol 40 points41 points  (0 children)

When infact men are happy with the waitress if she is 25 or under, thin, pert and hot.

Not once have I ever cared what job a hot girl did. Not once when looking at a hot girl, her lovely breasts and fine skin have I ever wondered what education or career she has.

[–]juiceboxguy85 6 points7 points  (1 child)

If you ever had a money sucking vampire of a wife for a decade, you might change your mind on this. I will never be the sole provider again.

[–]red_matrix 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I understand what you're saying. But that has nothing to do with attraction. Also, most men on here don't want to get married...and why would you after going through a divorce?

[–]SpecOpsAlpha 41 points42 points  (2 children)

Divorced friend of wife dropped off her son to play with my kids while she went out on a date. About an hour or so later, she’s back at our door. Asked her what’s wrong: “Men are like parking spaces: the good ones are all taken and the rest are handicapped.”

[–]Ragnarok314159 49 points50 points  (1 child)

Or it would take me five minutes of effort to find a decent one, but I won’t do that. The earth should rotate around me and the parking spot will come to me.

[–]DeontologicalSanders 18 points19 points  (0 children)

If that were the case, maybe a few of them could learn to parallel park.

[–]rebelde_sin_causa 27 points28 points  (7 children)

Except immigrating to Japan is practically impossible

[–]jjgoto 6 points7 points  (0 children)

This is not true at all. You can search YouTube for videos debunking this belief. The difficult part is actually learning the language and the requirement of denouncing your nationality.

[–]momomotorboat 10 points11 points  (0 children)

I agree with you. The only exception I've seen where women realize their errors is when you leave them. Of course, they have to have bought in. Sure, anyone can be coy to try to get you back in the short term, but sometimes you see the shift in the long term.

Outside of that, women will firmly hold to the idea that men are defective and the fault can't possibly be between their ears.

[–]smaffit 42 points43 points  (22 children)

And I'm willing to die on the same hill. Do something to deserve all the effort, or the effort isn't going to happen. Period. This must be a two way exchange

[–]DeontologicalSanders 109 points110 points  (21 children)

Right. But the problem with that "tit-for-tat" compromise, which women are seemingly unable to foresee, is that the downside of not engaging in it is waaay worse for women than it is for men.

Unless he is an abject professional failure, a man unmarried and childless at the age of 40 probably has some kind of sports car, a condo, some cool friends/connections because he still goes out, free weekends because he doesn't have to spend them at tee ball practice, and a couple of younger women on speed dial. They may not be as attractive as what he could have pulled at say, 30, but hey, our expectations as men are relative. We make due.

On the other hand, an unmarried and childless woman at the age of 40? Yeesh.

Beyond that point, stray cats and porcelain angel figurines practically begin appearing inside her house out of thin air. Women aren't taught this. It's an ugly truth no one wants to talk about, because the women who endure it refuse to publicly admit to their own misery. The dire importance of positive public perception over truth, inherent in all women, precludes them from ever acknowledging it.

[–]flameohotmein 30 points31 points  (0 children)

It used to be taught to some degree. We don't even have that shit anymore.

[–]rigbed 20 points21 points  (12 children)

Why would a 40 year old be unable to get as attractive women as 30 year olds

[–]NYCSPARKLE 39 points40 points  (11 children)

The physical wall for (most, but not all) men is late 30s / early 40s.

Harder to keep in shape, begin to lose a little hair, etc.

Also the mental sticker shock for a 22 year old girl dating a "40 year old man" versus a "35 year old guy" is real, unfortunately.

Luckily the 27-29 year old HB8s will be all over you.

[–]rigbed 20 points21 points  (4 children)

Fuck. So if you don’t have it together In your 30s you’re fucked.

[–]NYCSPARKLE 38 points39 points  (3 children)

I would say so.

You can pull off "struggling musician" at 32.

At 42? Might as well be a literal homeless guy.

[–]freshoutofgravitas 8 points9 points  (1 child)

Yowch. Right in my reality.

[–]NormalAndy 9 points10 points  (0 children)

I turned it around post 40. Life has never been better.

[–]TheMajesticDoge 10 points11 points  (1 child)

that's why you hop on test and become a fucking beast.

[–]xddm2653 10 points11 points  (1 child)

Nah man, hugh heffner didn't have a wall. There is no wall for men unless you build one yourself

[–]Pussyshack 1 points1 points [recovered]

The physical wall for (most, but not all) men is late 30s / early 40s.

Wrong. If you're chugging coors light daily then sure.

Harder to keep in shape

Wrong again. It's easy to keep in shape. Most men are lazy fucks.

Also the mental sticker shock for a 22 year old girl dating a "40 year old man" versus a "35 year old guy" is real, unfortunately.

You're on a real fuckup roll bro. Young women LOVE older men if he has his shit together. Again, most men are lazy fucks so that don't apply.

[–]red_matrix 19 points20 points  (4 children)

The cat phenomenon is something else, it screams "I want a baby to take care of", but women don't want to admit this.

[–]blownnnn 6 points7 points  (0 children)

It really is ugly. I know this hot ex-celebrity that had it all: fame, money, traveling the world, any guy she wants. Then got into a big cheating scandal, basically ruined her career & life. Never recovered, left Hollywood. Got knocked up by some random dude, single parent, unmarried in her 40s and recently got a job at a place that reminds her of the guy that ruined her life. It's fucked up! Truth is, her "BFFs" sabotaged her life, out of pent up jealousy and guided her to fail. Women turn more cruel as they age.

[–]Mgtowmillion 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Yep Unmarried childless 40s Own condo Have 28 and 35 on speed dial

I made a horrible mistake marrying ( blue pill) and feel better the younger model is 25 years younger than my ex

I actually look for educated women- because they date up and it is a small pool

[–]Senior Endorsed ContributorRian_Stone 25 points26 points  (13 children)

One thing you can be sure of is that women will not take steps to change this or improve the situation.

It's a shit attitude form men raised to think like women. they outsourced their happiness to people who give two shits about it. They are the sexual version of occupy wall street. A bunch of kids with no financial future, petitioning the banks to change their practices.

the banks just swilled champaigne and laughed form their penthouses

[–]187oddfuture 12 points13 points  (12 children)

Still doesn't change the fact that responsibility is women's Kryptonite. Obviously RP man shouldn't derive his validation from what women think of him or what women he gets with (tell that to Donovan btw), but that doesn't mean that we, as men, can't see the situation and their collective behavior for what it is and call it out.

[–]Senior Endorsed ContributorRian_Stone 12 points13 points  (10 children)

We are saying the same thing. taking your ball and going home is not a valid strategy to get women acting right. They would rather burn it all down than do anything about it.

As for Donovan, he's not getting validation form his woman, he's getting it through rubbing peoples noses in it. He's a hot head that way, hyper competetive

[–]blownnnn 4 points5 points  (5 children)

This is the right strategy. It's pointless to marry a western woman, do not even bother to get them to act right. It's futile. Right now, western woman are the worst women to "invest" in.

$1.3 trillion in student debt, 3/4 of that is women. If your women is college educated and not from a rich family, she is already a liability. If you want to buy a house or have kids, you have to deal with this debt.

Women are graduating with degrees with less earning potential, a rising pay gap, they take more time off for kids/caring for people. #metoo has obliterated their executive hiring possibilities. The deck is stacked against women to just pay off their student loans. A western woman will be too overworked to love you or even take care of the kids.

If your just not into plating and gaming woman. MGTOW makes A LOT of sense. There just isn't much you can do.

[–]187oddfuture 2 points3 points  (3 children)

I disagree, I think Donovan's entire identity centers around his woman because of his past and how BP he was, and how he never wants to be that way again. Ironically, by being so obsessed, I think he's the most BP of the RMG. But that isn't the point. MGTOW and the herbivores aren't trying to get women to act right, they aren't political. They're just guys who see relations with women as too costly. Most MGTOWs would love to get married, or at least date, but in the West the laws are just so one-sided and too risky in their eyes, so they elect to limit or cut contact. While the RMG and the RP sub guys still see value in the companionship women offer and their sex, MGTOWs and their international equivalents simply don't believe that the benefits outweigh the risks.

[–]NormalAndy 5 points6 points  (0 children)

responsibility is women's Kryptonite.

Wow- can we pin that one somewhere?

[–]a1b1no 27 points28 points  (10 children)

Immigrants and expats is not going to happen much in Japan as it is also an island with a mostly closed culture...

[–]DeontologicalSanders 21 points22 points  (9 children)

Funny, they used to say that about Germany. And Sweden. And the UK.

[–]187oddfuture 33 points34 points  (5 children)

Nah, bruh. Japan is way different. They're xenophobic as fuck and openly racist. They have the same DGAF as the Chinese ingrained into their culture for thousands of years. The Japanese have one of the lowest birthrates currently and they still won't let in immigrants, and are lukewarm to expats at best. They'll either solve their own problem by taking the vote from their women or they'll die out, either way of their own accord.

[–]giantsrocker 11 points12 points  (4 children)

Ive heard that their lukewarm behaviour turns colder as your skin shades go darker. Japan has been a very homogenous society since inception.

[–]red_matrix 11 points12 points  (1 child)

Europe used to be a cold fortress that killed invaders, including other Europeans. Now look at them....

[–]NormalAndy 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Austerity does the job better these days. Slavery was much easier to understand and fight against. Modern society kills silently and effectively - which is why borders are less important.

Same with sex. Chad gets even more yet we supposedly live in this metrosexual equal society? I don't think so...

[–]HuckleberryVanWinkle 1 points1 points [recovered]

Not seeing just generally not giving a shit as being the same as waiting around for men to show up and fix their problems.

Seems like both genders are ok with how this is playing out.

[–]DeontologicalSanders 11 points12 points  (0 children)

It doesn't matter if people "feel okay" with how this is playing out. Japan now has the second-lowest birthrate on the planet. A population crisis wherein the vast bulk of people living there are old and non-productive. Not enough taxpayers to foot the bill for their versions of social security and medicare.

No one is going to give a shit how the "genders" feel about it if their society starts crumbling around them.

[–]punchyson 251 points252 points  (25 children)

My novice understanding of Red Pill theory is that as long as there are some alfa males to have, the women couldn't care less that the guys they don't really want to fuck anyway are checking out.

Japanese Chad must be swimming in pussy.

[–]Senior Endorsed ContributorRian_Stone 104 points105 points  (7 children)


he's actually desperate to get more guys to help out

[–]NormalAndy 28 points29 points  (0 children)

From the article:

" Shimiken exercises 90 minutes a day, four days a week, focusing on heavy weight lifting and deep squats, which he says not only help his thrusts but also build up testosterone. He lives off a go-bag filled with glutamine, branched-chain amino acid, zinc (said to make semen whiter), arginine, and vitamin jelly. He dumps the bag's contents out for inspection, and nowhere in the pile is the pill that fuels the American porn industry: Viagra. "I haven't had to use it," he says. "Yet."

He knows what's important and he manages to get 90 mins of training 4 days a week on top of a 7-8 hour day 7 day per week shooting schedule. The man is a legend...

[–]MisterTwo_O 21 points22 points  (2 children)

This article is riveting. Thanks for posting!

[–]Senior Endorsed ContributorRian_Stone 25 points26 points  (1 child)

This is the kind of place an rp man would go if guys go MGTOW. Let them sleep with their egos, you can drown in pussy instead

[–]missinglastlette 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Let them find validation within themselves, you can continue trying to get it from women instead.

Nah but in all seriousness, that article was really interesting, along with your point. The numbers are almost unbelievable

[–]punchyson 38 points39 points  (1 child)

That is kinda hilarious, too bad I'm not Japanese.

[–]Senior Endorsed ContributorRian_Stone 55 points56 points  (0 children)

I can never figure out how they get their crotches to look pixelated like that. I must not have the right sort of clippers

[–]greenlittleman 15 points16 points  (0 children)

Same way we don't care about ugly fat old women and this not likely to be changed even if their percentage would be higher than now.

[–]3LiveAFTSOV 63 points64 points  (7 children)

japanese chad is american billy beta lol

[–]punchyson 40 points41 points  (5 children)

Lol that is probably true. There has to be some Yakuza or whatever that crush it with women though.

[–]Senior Contributordr_warlock 23 points24 points  (1 child)

Top gangs always crush pussy. And IIRC the Yakuza control the Japanese porn industry and keep out non-Japanese.

[–]rigbed 20 points21 points  (0 children)

Japanese women are worthwhile enough for yakuza to pursue but the money can buy Slavic

[–]MemeAttestor 14 points15 points  (2 children)

No, it's mostly foreigners. The Japanese were isolated for many thousands of years, so it only makes sense.

[–]punchyson 11 points12 points  (0 children)

I can see that, but there have to be some Yakuza guys or whatever that get all the pussy they want from hot women. Tatted up gangsters do well with chicks.

[–]Islam-Delenda-Est 17 points18 points  (0 children)

Do you know how few foreigners live in Japan? The foreigners in Japan do well with women, but there aren't enough of them for anything to be "mostly foreigners."

[–]CherryCityPulp 1 points1 points [recovered]

Very interesting. I think we may see something similar happen here in the U.S.--we already have the MGTOW movement, but I also see women doing some really weird shit and putting themselves in a horrible position to find a man.

One kind of stupid example is not shaving their legs and dressing like weird fucking hippies in a way that is NOT attractive whatsoever. I live in Portland Oregon and I see this all the time. I'm like: "you actually thinks this looks good?" I guess so? But I also think it's the arrogance of women in their 20's who are so jaded by male attention they think they can get away with anything.

The next dynamic, however, is much more common and widespread, which is the career focused woman. She spends her 20's and maybe even half her 30's focused on gaining material wealth, happy to toss men aside and not really making any real efforts on the relationship front. Then, suddenly they hit somewhere between 30-40 and it's like: SHIT, I want to settle down/have a family/what have I done with my life?

The problem for these women is that hypergamy doesn't work in reverse. I don't care if you have a bunch of money and status--I care if you look good. Additionally, these women try to seek dudes of a similar age: in their 30's and 40's, not understanding that those guys are now entering the prime of their SMV and can easily date women in their 20's.

But--and here's the hilarious part--these women won't lower their standards. They still think they should get the same level of guy they could attract when they were 25 and refuse to consider anyone who makes less money than they do. Ever seen "has his shit together" on SOD (swipe/online dating)--that's what that means. Anyway, they end up just being forever single and settling down with a bunch of cats, reading romance novels and whatever else useless people do who have money.

The good news is that for TRP men it doesn't matter. There are plenty of women out there who want men in their life, and relatively few men who understand how to get their attention without getting trapped in the subversive relationship we call marriage.

[–]1empatheticapathetic 42 points43 points  (3 children)

A lot of these women have chads kid relax their need for a BB partner. Check out r-WhereAreAllTheGoodMen

[–]AHumilationADay 19 points20 points  (2 children)

I feel like this will just make me sad, but i'm going to look anyway

[–]1empatheticapathetic 21 points22 points  (1 child)

Your sadness turns me on bro

[–]brxdpvrple 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Why is this being down voted its hilarious 😂

[–]grewapair 17 points18 points  (0 children)

But--and here's the hilarious part--these women won't lower their standards.

Trust me, they increase them. You date these women only once and go back down to the pre wall ones.

[–]22oregon22 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Portland is an absolute SJW hipster wannabe “feminist” shithole. I lost my last gf to Portland “culture.” Stay away.

[–]GoCleanYourRoom 58 points59 points  (3 children)

sees the antifa SJW liberal mental disease in Portland

Press F to pay respects.

[–]penisretard42069 9 points10 points  (0 children)

This. Men age like fine wine but women don’t.

[–]VoidInvincible 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I live in Portland too and my god has feminism done a number on feminity here! I am glad I am not the only red pilled dude in Portland.

[–]Median2 19 points20 points  (2 children)

I've been to Japan multiple times, and this phenomenon simply does not reflect the reality of what it's like over there. There are couples EVERYWHERE you can't walk through Shibuya, Shinjuku, or any large district in Tokyo at night without seeing swarms of people in their 20s and 30s looking to meet others. There is a vibrant nightlife scene in clubs and bars, full to the brim with people meeting each-other every single night. The women there are not cold, stuckup, derisive, or particularly money hungry, if anything they are more polite and more approachable than women in most Western countries. That being said, Japanese people in general are far more reserved than people in Western countries, but that goes for Men and Women, and that has more to do with how polite (sometimes overly so) Japanese culture is, where people are usually extremely worried about offending, bothering, or inconveniencing each other.

That post, like many others about "herbivore men" in Japan reads a lot like it was written by some ignorant foreigner who has never been to Japan, and is just buying into the crap spouted by shit like Vice News.

Furthermore, rates of being single and unmarried are up EVERYWHERE, not just in Japan, and yet we never see talk of "Herbivore" men in the United States:


That being said, there ARE problems in Japan that make relationships harder than they need to be, but it has nothing to do with the individual men and women. Japan suffers from an ATROCIOUS working culture that forces salary men and women to work to the bone until late at night and on top of that to then go drinking with managers and coworkers, which is why you will see a constant stream of people in business clothes filing out of bars/restaurants at midnight to catch the last train home every single night of the week. That, on top of ASTRONOMICAL living costs, makes the prospects of having a family or even a relationship more difficult (on your wallet) than it should be.

[–]GAndGMethod 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I agree. Lived there for 3 years.

This whole western media brainwashing about sexless Japan is really over hyped.

It is easy to game there and I knew and seen plenty of Jap guys slaying pussy at the bars and nightclubs in Osaka, Tokyo and Okinawa.

[–]sd4c 32 points33 points  (0 children)

I don't mind approaching. I mind being taken for a ride, gradually dropping my plates in the growing and false conviction that "this one really loves me", only to end up dumped (or forced to dump her) the moment she figures out that I dropped my guard and decided to love her back.

Women are the opposite of men. Buy a gift, do a favor for a guy or otherwise show loyalty- and he'll go out of his way to reciprocate your tributes. But I've seen an enthusiastic woman's face fall, crestfallen, upon my providing a gift or demonstrating other sincere affection.

The greatest gift you can give your girlfriend, is iron-clad proof from another cute girl that she wants to bang you. This never failed to get hot sex, whereas a diamond ring, iPad, help with work- never did.

[–]Senior Endorsed ContributorVasiliyZaitzev 31 points32 points  (0 children)

Reminds me of this joke:

Q: ”How many women does it take to change a lightbulb?”

A: ”Two, but they don’t actually change the bulb, they just sit in the dark and bitch.”

[–]DropDeadTyrant 56 points57 points  (14 children)

after reading this, I think girls will end up chasing guys again in Japan. But, not for a century or so of keeping that up. I mean, think about the U.S. We gave women voting rights and for years the majority of women still believed that staying in the home was the right thing to do. Japan is on its way to breaking the "men need to be available for women" mindset, but it's not going to happen rapidly.

[–]DatingTank 37 points38 points  (10 children)

If they keep it up for a century, the population will be extinct

[–]omega_dawg93 5 points6 points  (5 children)

i think they have the slowest population growth in the world right now!

[–]digeridooasaur420 11 points12 points  (2 children)

I thought their population was decreasing (or at least stagnating.) I could be wrong though.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (1 child)

It is declining. They’re barely having a child per woman right now and you need at least 2 children per woman for population growth.

[–]Samatic 7 points8 points  (1 child)

There are some schools in Japan where there is one class that has one student and one teacher.

[–]Merica911 7 points8 points  (3 children)

They all ready have a negative population growth and their government is giving couples incentives in having kids.

Also, Japan (men) has the highest suicide rate in the world. Shit is that bad out there.

But I truly believe if Japanese men not only unplug from the video games and vr shit (and they are the highest users) but to also unplug from the blue pill matrix and start to fucking swollow the red pill.

If man have to work their asses off (and we also do here in the west) but and also get fucking jacked in the gym, learn game, etc it will spin chicks wigs in Japan.

It's that men need to learn to grab the bull by the horns regardless of the bull. If the bull is harder to ride from previous years, fucking learn how to ride better..

If you search YouTube on Japanese men, you can't help in seeing a bunch of anime watching pussies.

[–]Hoodwink 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I think it will be an interesting case-study of what happens when a population naturally shrinks - rather than die-off to invaders or (replaced with immigration). I hope that they keep their immigration policies to see exactly how they fair. I'm actually interested for some environmental reasons because we will eventually hit the point where the earth can't support the human population..

I don't think we actually have a historical record of anything like this without another human population doing the killing/raping/replacing.

What happens in the economy would be interesting as well.

[–]red_matrix 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Not likely...virtual reality is right around the corner.

[–]llDUNN 9 points10 points  (0 children)

The problem is men have, for the most part, always been available to women. It's women who try to manipulate us to think that they are available. When they're not. Even more so now lol

[–]analt223 13 points14 points  (2 children)

No. Women deem a much much smaller percent of men attractive than the other way around.

[–]casemodz 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Women look at fitness, charisma, social status, wit, success, wealth.

Men look at how decent their body and face are.

[–]JohnBravo9990 113 points114 points  (15 children)

Women have to be subservient to men for civilization to exist. When the population crashes enough, men will reassert themselves.

[–]cjandstuff 122 points123 points  (10 children)

When population crashes enough, dominant men from another country will come in and take over. The women will be subservient to them, or be killed.
This is in no way meant to promote any kind of hatred towards women, this is what happens through history over and over again.

[–]red_matrix 21 points22 points  (0 children)

Yup, it happened as recently as WW2, Nazi Collaborators sleeping with the enemy. After WW2 the French beat and shaved the heads of these women who betrayed them.

[–]RedHeimdall 56 points57 points  (3 children)

For the autists, it usually doesn't happen in modern times as a formally declared war between nation states. It happens through migration, aka population replacement, aka soft genocide. As opposed to the more popular hard genocide of times past.

[–]HappyProfessor 6 points7 points  (2 children)

Japan has one of the strictest immigration systems in the world. But at some point, they are going to have to compensate for their rapidly declining population.

[–]RedHeimdall 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This is easily done if there is the will to do it. Incentivize large families. The government can offer home loans to large families, and/or tax breaks, and/or just write them checks. It's been done before and it works. The only problem is that it's politically incorrect.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Robots will take up just about all menial work in the coming decades, I don’t think they will have to replace their population.

[–]casemodz 6 points7 points  (1 child)

You put men on one island and women on another island and see how it goes. It's been done before too. The results are as you'd expect. I'm not sure why women are so highly regarded.

[–]Adeus_Ayrton 8 points9 points  (0 children)

They are much better consumers. You can sell a man something that costs 5 bucks at 10 apiece, but only to a woman can you sell something that costs 2 for 50. Ie literally the entire make up industry and stuff that revolves around fashion.

[–]drkinferno72 6 points7 points  (1 child)

But what's the word on gaijin hunters over there?

[–]DeadliftRx 65 points66 points  (10 children)

I would like to state that if you require women in your life to develop a sense of value or to find purpose in life, then you are proceeding through life, as a man, in a misguided state.

This effects my take on the separation between MGTOW and TRP, where MGTOW swear off women, and the focus of MGTOW is still about women. TRP is about how to persevere through women being part of our universe and to enjoy them when they happen to be involved in our lives. Realize the frame, gentlemen, and how women are a part of our universe; not the other way around.

It reminds me of how hatred is not the opposite of love because of how one dwells on that hatred, but rather how true apathy is the antithesis of love. No man requires a woman to thrive, but they can be excellent entertainment.

[–]uniqueusernamex112 13 points14 points  (3 children)

i dont think mgtow is bout woman tho

[–]187oddfuture 20 points21 points  (4 children)

That's not what MGTOW is at all lmao

[–]ArthurSamuel 31 points32 points  (7 children)

As a non-Japanese who lived there for a number of years I'm not sure I completely agree with this comment. It's much more nuanced that what has been suggested above. Yes, I don't doubt that this does exist but not to the degree suggested, however, it would take too long to explain my thinking.

Anyway, to address the actual question: would women chase men if men stopped chasing them, the resounding answer is YES.

As a western male in Japan I would have the pick of both the locals and the expat women. But the tables were turned on the western women. Where we had abundance and choice, they did not. Most local guys were too shy to approach women due to their perceived (possibly justified) sass and the language barrier.

So the expat women, that back home wouldn't give you the time of day, would throw themselves at the expat men. After all, we all need a bit of love.

That's just me and my buddies experience but I don't see why it wouldn't apply to other situations.

[–]I_do_it4sloots 22 points23 points  (6 children)

Women would keep chasing chad

[–]omega_dawg93 15 points16 points  (5 children)

yeah they do... but after a certain number of fuck sessions, they ALL ask that one long question:

"what does all this fucking mean... where is this relationship going... when are you gonna step up and do the right thing?"

[–]grewapair 15 points16 points  (1 child)

THey only ask YOU that question. They keep their mouths shut when it comes to Chad.

[–]omega_dawg93 9 points10 points  (0 children)

true dat. but they try to force chads hand at times too.

women are relentless about their feelings.

[–]RocketPowersSD 40 points41 points  (2 children)

Women want money far more than sex or companionship. As long as we allow women to replace relationships with cash, the birth and marriage rates will fall. GYOW, AWALT. They are soulless, greedy succubi.

[–]MemeAttestor 15 points16 points  (0 children)

That doesn't really make sense, since most Japanese men have money to spare and spend on women replacements. Of course the top % will always find a gold digger, but it's overwhelmingly rare for an above average gaining jap business man to find any wife.

[–]red_matrix 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Women want cash but also men. They are of two minds, they seek the hot alpha as well as the beta provider. A man who wields both of these will hold a woman (or many women) forever.

[–]_the_shape_ 20 points21 points  (1 child)

The issue is a bit complex

Quite so.

To my understanding, comparing Japanese women specifically to women here in the States is flawed from the get go. For starters, the weeds of feminism haven't grown wild over there like they have here, so (to take one effect resulting precisely from that point) their culture doesn't celebrate "you go gyrl!!" hyper-promiscuity like it commonly is over here.

If guys did begin to start dropping like flies from the dating game, I'd predict women would dial up the attention-whoring (ex. more revealing pics on Instagram, showing more skin on the streets), and yes, they'd go even harder after Chad specifically (they can't help it ). They'd probably disregard the regular Joe-schmoes they tend to settle with when things aren't going their way (i.e. when they hit the wall, when Chad rejects/ignores them), and they'd continue their policy of zero fucks to give for the incels and unattractive MGTOWs.

TL;DR - withdrawing from the game en masse would stick it even harder to the 80%, and even would mean more ass for Chad

[–]Two_kids_in_a_coat 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Naw, WW2 Russian women would fight for any man they could get.

[–]emdmarco 35 points36 points  (7 children)

“..Games galore, interactive movies, perverse comics...”

I wonder if those were instead replaced with more self-building hobbies- such as lifting, martial arts, art, business success, etc (of course with the occasional leisure and video games), if women would have thought differently. Seems like they gave up on women, but ALSO gave up on themselves.

Find me a guy in japan who gave up on women but lifts, has hobbies which benefit the mind/body/soul, is successful with his job, has a passion for contributing to this world, and has PURPOSE. I guarantee you he has women leaving bras and panties at his front door.

Edit: added last paragraph.

[–]p_and_q 32 points33 points  (1 child)

It's easy to assume that most men in Japan are soyboys by popular hobbies like "..Games galore, interactive movies, perverse comics...", but remember that the work culture in Japan is incredibly intense. The options become a mix of lifting, self improvement hobbies, “..Games galore, interactive movies, perverse comics...”, and dating real women. Which of those activities do you think the average overworked Japanese guy is going to go for?

[–]c_megalodon25 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I think that there may be cultural considerations in Japan that are not the same in the West. While there is certainly a rise of toxic feminism in the west, most straight or even bi women do want a man to fuck their brains out. Hell, I knew a few lesbians who were experimental enough in college to want a dick on occasion.

I went to a college that was 40-45% men. I don’t care how liberal or feminist they were, they wanted dick and would put the energy in to get it. I don’t feel jaded or feel disrespectful of the women, but in the end, women (and men) all want to get laid.

[–]SKRedPill 4 points5 points  (0 children)

The masculine must actively establish boundaries for the feminine. Passive aggression will not work because the feminine in a way wants to be led. If you want to plant trees, you've gotta put your hands in mud. No way out of it. Withdrawing masculine energy from society isn't going to make things better. Establishing the frame does. For that you've gotta get into it.

Engaging with women and then kicking out the ones who do not respect you is a far better way to ensure compliance on a large scale than to simply withdraw. The feminine will not come to compliance on it's own. Without the masculine, it will just fluctuate away to it's own funeral.

Japan for it's part, suffers from a horribly time consuming work culture that is old fashioned, unproductive and leaves no time for any life outside the office. Since World War 2, they've become soft, which was ok at first (imperial Japan had become dark triad sociopathic masculine) , but now they're absolutely making a national identity out of beta-ness. They're suffering a national Nice Guy Syndrome, with all the symptoms.

It's ok, let civilization decline for a while. It will act as a cosmic form of dread. :)

[–]red_matrix 13 points14 points  (2 children)

I've thought about this. And what we are seeing is women filling in the masculinity void men have left open. Like water finding a common level, the masculinity and femininity have to balance...thus you see women acting like men, against their own nature, subconsciously. You see women acting tough, Wright lifting, yelling, stronger grip strength, more tattoos, more cursing, more belittling of men, radfem culture. Also women want attention, that's why they pretend to be lesbians and make out with each other, it's why they support LGBQQTT2 etc, and also why so many women own cats, their surrogate children. Subconscious they know they are lacking testosterone in their lives, so they seek to create it...problem is, they are getting it without men, and it's fucking them up. No wonder female happiness is at all time lows in the west.

[–]civilization_failed 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Like the toy dog that hasn't been dominated enough, yap, yap, yapping away, nipping at people, trying to run shit without a clue how to do it.

[–]red_matrix 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Same goes for single moms and their children.

[–]rlindem 45 points46 points  (1 child)

None of you has any idea how japan society works. It’s another universe over there. Don’t even try to speculate.

[–]NormalAndy 18 points19 points  (10 children)

Oh well, time for a cheap Japanese takeaway (finally). Option1: marriage will just be seen as a business relationship again as vulnerable girls become chattels- but how likely is that? Alternatively Japanese society follows the Swedish model and imports men. Also unlikely with their xenophobia.

Most likely outcome: socialised jap society kills itself off just as quickly as it rose from feudalism. Corporations move on...

[–]smaffit 17 points18 points  (9 children)

I don't think a desire to preserve culture and mitigate the demonstratable risk of violence falls under the xenophobic category

[–]majaka1234 12 points13 points  (7 children)

Except non Japanese who have grown up in Japan are treated stigmatically.

Even people who live there for a couple of decades, are married to a Japanese person, have a Japanese job, speak fluent Japanese and for all intents and purposes are model examples of what all immigrants should strive for, will never be allowed "full access".

Immigration policy should reward successful integration into the host culture, not treat them as separate no matter what.

Edit: autocorrect intelligently switched out "Japanese" for "Spanish" after mentioning "Japanese" around six times. I tell ya...

[–]smaffit 23 points24 points  (4 children)

You said who speak fluent Spanish... I think you meant Japanese. Even still, you are correct in that non native Japanese will never be accepted fully into Japanese culture. Japan is not a melting pot, and they value the homogeneous nature of their culture. The distinct culture is also one of the things that drives tourism and a general sense of being Japanese. To integrate would be to lose this aspect. The Japanese aren't afraid of other cultures, tjey are just very protective if their own.

[–]majaka1234 2 points3 points  (0 children)

fluent Spanish

Wtf autocorrect. slow clap

[–]AlmightyPerun 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I mean, no shit. That's just natural. You can't beat nature at its own game. It doesn't matter what the laws are, the stigma among native people will always exist. It doesn't matter if someone integrates properly, they are still and always will be a foreigner, and nothing can change that fact. You don't magically become Japanese (or whatever) by merely "integrating" within their culture.

[–]Islam-Delenda-Est 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Even people who live there for a couple of decades, are married to a Japanese person, have a Japanese job, speak fluent Spanish and for all intents and purposes are model examples of what all immigrants should strive for, will never be allowed "full access".

When I visited Japan and from talking to the expats I know there, people treat you better with "partial acceptance" to Japanese culture than "full acceptance" in American (or most other Western) culture.

Immigration policy should reward successful integration into the host culture, not treat them as separate no matter what.

Those two statements are not at odds, Japan does reward successful integration, just not to the extent of "all of the benefits of full native citizens" - and why should they?

[–]AlexDr0ps 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I've had a woman 'ask me out' on two separate occasions. One of them had their male friend approach me and hand me a paper with her number. The other faked a phone call, approached me while talking on the phone, and handed me her number. Both were overweight, the former was morbidly obese.

The idea with both of these scenarios is that they wouldn't know if they were rejected. They did not formally ask me out, they just put themselves out there for me to make an actual move. In the truest way possible, women can't handle rejection.

[–]wickedogg 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Why is everyone here so convinced that things will change? It seems much more likely that the Japanese men have adapted to the environment and the women have no reason to make any changes because any reproductive urge they feel can be dealt with in other ways: pets, adoption, toys, etc.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

To the title:

They already do that’s part of people’s problem on here, the game I learned is to make the fact your available know introduce yourself then back off and “pursue” something else or work on yourself the second you start seeing those “hey how you been” texts that’s your cue to make a move.

Women want what they can’t have or want something that they perceive a better looking women in their eyes wants.

My complete opinion.

Women chase just in a different way then men.

[–]Sephar 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I think the most crucial takeaway from this post is that things like VR, life-like sex dolls and conversations with therapists/hostesses are a very good replacement for many things men want out of a relationship. Where in past times societies would greatly destabilize if the male-female relations would slowly tend towards the 20-80 rule and things like enforced marriages and gender roles played a part in stabilizing and swaying back to a state where there'd be someone for pretty much everyone, in this day and age we have plenty of simulated distraction that societies don't see the need to enforce those things anymore. Ultimately if it plays out this way it is an evolutionary development which might give humans an evolutionary advantage, save the negative effects of not having a stable family environment with a strong father figure present which might lead to society being worse-off. Not even mentioning the great depopulation effects this has--Japan is certainly not doing well on that front and neither are many Western-European countries. Those being born, by and large, are children from people who have a religious framework which heavily emphasize family values.

[–]LogicalAnswers 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Women already ask guys out all the time. Nearly every successful couple I know of (not many these days) the girls slid into the DMs lol. The couples that always fail are the ones where the guy asks the girl out. The reason for this is pretty obvious if you understand hypergamy and such

[–]Endorsed ContributorKeffirLime 24 points25 points  (1 child)

This is basically a discussion about MGTOW.

A fundamental problem with Sōshoku(-kei) danshi is that no one gives a shit that they're gong their own way. It will change nothing. No real man of value would go his own way because Society (yes even a femicentric one) still works for a man of value. And if Society works for a man of value, what incentive does he have to go his own way?

If all the men of value, the CEO's, the alphas started going their own way it would make an impact. Because then it's directly affecting human beings biological urge to mate with the peak of the opposite Gender. And if the peak of the opposite gender is making themselves unavailable it would have a marked effect on society as a whole.

Even if the Alphas joined the betas in abandoning pussy, women would get thirsty. Settling for substandard cock. This is when the betas who originally were Sōshoku(-kei) danshi would come out the shadows and cease their opportunity to get some pussy because the whole reason they went Sōshoku(-kei) danshi is because they couldn't get it. Essentially their original dilemma would be solved.

Men in Japan are hardly happy with Sōshoku(-kei) danshi, their depression and suicide rates are testament to that, they would much rather have the real thing and in all likelyhood still long for it.

But Alphas going Sōshoku(-kei) danshi isn't the case, and would never be for the above reason. An alpha doesn't compromise his position in Society, he revels in it. Sōshoku(-kei) danshi is mostly men who are bitter that society isn't working for them. These are not high value men. They will cease to breed and work themselves out the gene pool.

The same could be said for feminism. Seldomn is it the peak of their gender who claim to be feminists. Society currently works for beautiful woman, they have the easiest life you could imagine. True equality would be a disaster for these woman. Unless all peak woman start really becoming feminists it too will never have it's desired effect. Despite shit tests biology/Survival of the fittest tends to keep things in balance.

[–]obipwnobi 8 points9 points  (3 children)

Maybe this is a species level mechanism in response to overpopulation.

[–]civilization_failed 7 points8 points  (2 children)

No, this is is a result of a global social engineering program to control population now that people are wising up to the bullshit wars they throw every few decades to cull the herd.

I forget who said it, but the saying goes if you want to control a society, first control the women.

[–]Mefic_vest 9 points10 points  (1 child)

Tthe end of the red pill road has always and will always be MGTOW. When you put everything in current society on the scales of logical and rational risk assessment, there is only one possible outcome.

[–]rebelde_sin_causa 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I think the natural progression for any RP man is GHOW, but typically when he's older and sex isn't as important as it was when he was younger. For the man in his teens and twenties and thirties, the biological urge is too powerful to overcome/resist. But in middle age things can come into a different perspective. Then he wonders why he should ever put up with any of her shit if all that's in it for him is to be able to fuck her.

[–]thebadmanpuntdbaxter 2 points3 points  (0 children)

If we can call “love” a psychological game, it’s pretty certain that a party will stop playing when the frequency and reward of winning is skewed drastically to the other party. If a dog never wins at tug of war with a person, it loses interest. Unfortunately, moral shame is the default mode of correction for a society rooted in western religion. And japan is VERY westernized.

[–]uber_kerbonaut 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I've found Japanese women to be more likely to make the first move (than American women). Maybe it did change them a bit.

[–]UnluckyPenguin 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Welcome to Ancient Greece.

I can't find any article that mentions this, but I know I've read about how women used to be the ones that chased men in ancient greece.

Generally, women were the pursuers, and the 'men' acted grossed out about cat-calling women and proceeded to hook up with other guys.

[–]EmotionalProblem 2 points3 points  (0 children)

holy shit when Japanese men just redpill themselves you glorious bastard

[–]VillagersUnite 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I think that has a lot to do with upbringing as well. A hell of a lot of blue pill conditioning as men grow up. But let Japan be a lesson. Instead of taking the red pill they altogether just said fuck this and opted out. Sooner or later they'll start incentivizing giving birth and creating families. But even then that may not be enough. Japan needs changes all around.

[–]ahab_dies 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The thing that should be of interest for us at TRP is are those women having less sex?

If no, then clearly that means the top 10%/20% of men are laying all the women while the rest of men have given up any competition.

Seeing as how the goal of TRP is to get yourself into that top percent bracket this should be great news for all of us.

[–]bonusfruit 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Agency is strictly masculine.

[–]Mattreddit760 7 points8 points  (6 children)

Human nature takes centuries to change not a decade

[–]zyqkvx 23 points24 points  (5 children)

Human nature has changed an incredible amount in the last 50 years. I was there. It will continue to change rapidly with many new twists like what I'll call mass mental illness enabled by the internet.

[–]SpecOpsAlpha 1 point2 points  (2 children)

If a man can have a bot/synth female sans all the bullshit, why bother unless you want kids?

Also seems like some R versus K population dynamic at work.

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