Red Pill TheoryHow to Provide Without Being a Provider (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by [deleted]

Summary: When it comes to keeping plates on the line, stay as far away from providing as you can, but when engaging in mini-relationships or LTRs you need a game plan for when you are forced to provide.


When do you need to provide?

In any relationship that extends beyond just sex resources will be used to maintain it. This can be money (for dinner, drinks, activities), time (for phone calls, hanging out), or effort (for small “in the moment” favors, giving her attention). In any relationship outside of an NSA plate a man who never gives any of these things will be seen as either a deadbeat, selfish, or not valuable (having nothing to give).

You simply cannot have a working relationship without some give and take. A man will make sacrifices for a woman, but a high value man will only do so if he gets something equally valuable out of it, and that something cannot be sex.

What is expected of you?

Much less than you think. Remember, women only see the top 20%, and the top 20% are doing fuck all for these women. When I first made an effort to significantly increase my SMV, I was shocked at how little they expected from me. I had, for the first time in my life, jumped into Chad's shoes. She wasn't expecting me to stick around. When she wants you for sex as much as you want her, she no longer expects you to grovel for it. It's no longer a “favor” to you. She wants you to treat her like an equal. This is the basis for not “putting the pussy on a pedestal.”

How should you go about providing?

Every time you provide is a chance to lead. For instance, I posted the other day about a very blue pill guy who made dinner for his supposed gf, me, and a plate. He did all of the work, never really took credit for the dinner, and did all the dishes afterwards. If you're making dinner for her, that's a chance to show her what a bad ass cook you are, how you are a master of that particular domain. If she's watching TV while you cook, you're doing it wrong. She feels entitled to dinner. What would make her feel entitled to this? Inherent value. When you give a woman inherent value (rather than earned value), you are telling her she can do better, because just existing is good enough for you.

So if you're cooking, she's your sous chef. If you're fixing her car, she's fetching you wrenches. If there is no clear "teaching" moment, she is assisting you in any way she is able, and you are directing the action.

Another great way to provide is to act as a teacher for something you enjoy. If you're an avid rock climber, bring her to the gym and teach her how to climb. If you love skiing, take her to the local mountain for an afternoon. Why do you think so many girls get the hots for their attractive teachers in high school and college? The only times she ever sees him is when he is the master of his domain.

Providing comes in so many forms, what about gifts, money, favors?

In general, before you do something that benefits her more than it benefits you, ask yourself, Would I do this for my best guy friend? That will get you through 90% of the situations you encounter. This works because providing is entirely non-sexual. The moment you give resources for sex, you tell her that you are not sexual equals. This immediately places you in beta bux territory. In any case, this table should break down the various forms of providing and generally how you'd deal with it when you're trying to get more than a lay.

What you are providing How it's handled
Money (directly) Avoid at all costs. Only lend money with proper legal documentation and even then avoid.
Dinner/drinks/activities bill Split evenly. Some exceptions if she comes from a very traditional family (and actually buys into ideas from marriage 1.0)
Gifts The best is something you'll both enjoy, but is aimed mostly at her. Don't spend more on her than she does on you.
Favors In exchange for other non-sexual favors of equal value to you only. Ideally, she will act as your assistant while you teach her something.
Time Only spend it if you genuinely enjoy it. If you're hanging around for sex, she can tell.
Little favors (e.g. can you fetch my purse?) Would you grab it for Mike? Never respond to the baby voice/puppy eyes.
Giving her attention over other people Your only obligation is to not be rude/ignore her if you came with her. If she doesn't command your attention, you don't have to give it.

Lessons Learned:

  • Providing is unavoidable in non-NSA sex relationships, but it is the easiest way to slip from AF to BB.

  • Providing is entirely non-sexual. Exchanging resources for sexual favors results in being perceived as not sexually equal.

  • Use any type of providing as a chance to lead or teach, acting as the master of that domain.

  • In general, if you wouldn't do it for a good guy friend, you shouldn't do it for her.

  • Never put more into the relationship than she is willing to put in.

[–][deleted] 71 points72 points  (3 children)

Thank you for the awesome post; it was very informative and pertinent, as this is something I often struggle with.

[–]Endorsed ContributorRedPillDad 36 points37 points  (2 children)

Oh yeah, so easy to slip into the handyman role. It feels great to be needed and useful... Unfortunately, it puts you right in with the boot-licking guys who are starved for appreciation and practically beg HB's to serve them.

Great advice Doc.

[–]forsleepssake 37 points37 points [recovered]

This actually taught me something. I seriously never thought of separating sex from every other aspect of the relationship before, but it makes sense. Don't treat women differently because sex is something you're entitled to because you are attractive to her, not something you earn from her. I think I knew this deep down, but for some reason it still seemed okay to make exceptions and treat women differently because we treat them differently from men in every other aspect of relationships.

Also, great formatting. Very easy to read for such a long post.

[–][deleted] 9 points9 points

[permanently deleted]

[–]workreddit212 1 point2 points  (3 children)

I don't remember who said it but,

"Women are the gatekeepers of sex, while men are the gatekeepers of commitment"

That is one of the strongest pieces of advice I got from this sub.

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (9 children)

When I first made an effort to significantly increase my SMV

OP can you name some changes you made to see this night and day difference? Gym, work, money, fashion Etc.

[–][deleted] 29 points30 points  (8 children)

Gym, added about 25 pounds. Fashion, pretty much walked into Banana Republic with some coupons and bought the store. Attitude, increasing my expectations of her, amused mastery, etc... Posture, I was probably losing 2-3 inches from awful posture. Didn't realize women were perceiving me as short before (I'm 5'10"). Status, from engineer to medical student (proof that status > money).

Of those gym/attitude/status were the most effective.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (7 children)

As someone that turned down the medical field to pursue engineering, what prompted that decision?

Also, I had always assumed that as far as status engineering/medical/law were all neck and neck (and neck) for most prestigious careers.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (5 children)

That decision was mostly based on my career interests. I wanted to work more directly with the population I was supposedly helping.

As far as prestige goes, I'd have to say that doctor/lawyer > engineer, especially if you're looking at your career as a panty dropper. Engineers not only have a reputation for being awkward, but it's also a less exclusive field where salaries are typically (though not always) lower. Also consider the work environment. Engineers typically report to someone higher up (usually a manager or business person) while doctors/lawyers tend to control the room.

This is just what I've observed. When I told women I was an engineer, they said, "oh, okay," and changed the subject. When I told women I was in medical school, they leaned in closer. It's not important enough to ever affect your career choices, but it's definitely real.

[–]MRPguy 7 points8 points  (0 children)

This is just what I've observed. When I told women I was an engineer, they said, "oh, okay," and changed the subject. When I told women I was in medical school, they leaned in closer. It's not important enough to ever affect your career choices, but it's definitely real.

Doctor also, and you are absolutely correct.

[–]well-ok-then 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm an engineering supervisor. I like to say I'm an engineer because it's more interesting (to me). Not to girls. They'd way rather hear that I'm a manager (even though I think passing out assignments is less impressive than design).

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I definitely understand your point. But the way I see it, If you're an engineer with lots of SMV and aren't awkward, it sets you aside from the crowd.

I have a friend in my class who is buff, very social, dresses nice and owns a motorcycle. He's not even for tallest guy, but he's slept with quite a few girls mainly because of the way he carries himself

In my opinion SMV trumps everything. If you have money, she probably doesn't care where it's from

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Of course. A hot accountant > a frumpy doctor any day. Like I said, it's not even close to worth considering. Your career is far too important to alter for the sake of minor gains in social perception.

[–]NSmaf 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is just what I've observed. When I told women I was an engineer, they said, "oh, okay," and changed the subject. When I told women I was in medical school, they leaned in closer. It's not important enough to ever affect your career choices, but it's definitely real.

I think a large part of that is also that it's much easier for a layperson to relate to a doctor than to an engineer. Everyone has a good idea of what a doctor does, but do you think that girl has any idea what the typical day of an engineer is like?

[–]rosarywan 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm in med school-- I've been conditioned to go into the field since I was little, though honestly at this point it is such a gigantic boost to my SMV and pretty much a guaranteed ticket to economic freedom that I'm glad I'm in this field.

Engineering tends to generally pay less, same schooling bullshit (maybe less schooling), and has lots of stigma attached to it.

[–]ransay3277 23 points24 points  (5 children)

Great post! I flip houses on the side so naturally I can do a lot of handyman stuff. Plates are always asking me to put up a ceiling fan or fix a light switch. While I never directly ask for money, I always go for stuff in return. "Sure... No problem. I haven't had a good home cooked meal in a long time." or "You don't need to pay me... Just buy me a couple of drinks tonight." And usually what follows the dinner or drinks is well worth it.

[–][deleted] 20 points21 points  (1 child)

This is fine for girls you aren't seriously involved with, just be careful if it's a mini-relationship or LTR, especially LTR. I think the home cooked meal is great, the drinks not so much. Spending money =/= putting in time and effort. Her perceived effort there will be the time spent getting drinks with you and the sex. On some level she's definitely thinking of it as paying you with sex, or maybe just thinking of the two things as separate events (he came over and fixed my light switch, we had sex later because we were hanging out). This is totally fine for women you aren't seriously involved with, but not so great if you want to expand the relationships. It's still better than what most guys do though.

[–]Endorsed ContributorJamesSkepp 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yeah, the distinction between money and effort is important. Effort is something like LTR version of PUA saying "don't look for attraction, look for compliance".

Great article.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

The assumed repayment is classic. It perfectly communicates that your time is valuable and, more importantly I might argue, that you're so used to people bidding for your time that it is unthinkable for someone to do otherwise.

Also, I loved pulling this on plates back in the day. "Thanks for getting this round of drinks." You saw it in their eyes that the assumed difference in SMV had just widening and they were shocked that they might have to bring something besides sex to the table.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I had a OKC date that didn't go anywhere, but she wanted me to give her rides home after work. I got a cooked meal every time. Just watched DBZ while she cooked

[–]Senior ContributorOmLaLa 9 points10 points  (0 children)

and that something cannot be sex.

This is HUGE. Many find it odd that my plates would willingly cook, clean and shop for me, but all it boils down to an exchange of values. I am providing them with a provision, they provide me with their services and with both benefit from sex as they've learned that sex is a weak bargaining chip in my case (abundance mentality).

All relationships work this way (friends, coworkers, etc.) whether you're aware of it or not. People weigh their time and energy as a commodity and base the value of spending it on others according to that base.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (4 children)

What is a "non-NSA sex relationship"?

[–][deleted] 16 points17 points  (3 children)

No Strings Attached. Thanks to Americans and their damn fondness for brevity, I have a seriously hard time trying to keep all the acronyms I see on a daily basis straight.

[–]TorboLeto 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Agree with you totally. I am familiar with many common acronyms, but there are a lot of new ones here. NMMNG (a book, No More Mr Nice Guy), etc.

We should make it common practice around here to add the meaning after each acronym used in a post/comment for the first time. I know there's a a list in the sidebar, but many times there are ones not even listed on there and you actually have to search for it. And it would be easier for one person to do this than it would be for many to go open the acronym list anyways.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I wonder if there is a bot for that?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I would never have thought someone would have trouble understanding NSA sex. It's extremely common in America to the point where pretty much anyone under 30 knows the expression. I figured it was thrown around here more than enough. I guess you find out something new every day.

[–]MoneyStatusLooks 8 points8 points [recovered]

This is a good post. There is a bit more nuance to it than this.

For example, if you are a multimillionaire and she is broke-ish, paying for drinks/dinner/activities is fine.

If you are a broke or not very wealthy, you should split everything paid 50/50 pretty much.

What is missing from the post is effort. Spending $50 on dinner is not a big deal if you a stupidly rich, so there is no effort. Spending $50 on dinner if you earn $100 a day is a big deal, because its half your days worth of labour.

For example, when I am 'cooking' for my girlfriend, I either chuck something in the oven that requires no effort, or order takeout. When she cooks for me she does something from scratch homemade, or bakes me something. The disparity in effort is large, make her work more than you work.

[–]TRPMaidenSlayer 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Another strategy is to "make the pain equal".

If you're making 3x more than her... then she can just kick in for the tip, or she pays for drinks while you pay for the meal + tip.

In my LTR, I'm slowly paying more because of this. An extra $50 here or there does far less damage to me than to her because things have been going well business-wise. And when she has extra cash in the bank (she doesn't piss money away like many women), life is all around better around the house.

[–]1jb_trp -1 points0 points  (0 children)

A lot of it is not so much what you do, but how you do it as well as the reasons you do it. For example, if you're paying for dinner or drinks to try to get a woman to like you, you've fallen into the beta bux role--no matter how much money you make. If you're out with a woman and she likes you because your SMV is significantly high, paying for a meal or drinks is no big deal and can be seen as a good gesture (i.e. alpha bux).

If I have a plate that I enjoy, I'll occasionally pay for drinks when we go out--but usually with the unspoken understanding that she'll get the drinks next time or cook dinner, etc. You want a woman's respect before anything else. I've found women who respect me will at least offer to pay for their half--and often will offer to pay for my half too. Women with no respect won't even bat an eye when the check comes.

[–]poopcasso -1 points0 points  (1 child)

I think effort is implied in OP's post. He says that you don't put effort into stuff because of effort, but because you're fucking badass at it. And having her as an assistant or a partner will make it an activity and less something of an effort. If you chuck something in the oven that requires no effort, you aren't very attractive, because you are willing to eat shit and you aren't passionate. But if you cook something badass and have her be there to help you, she will witness your awesomeness. An analogy would be sex. You have sex with each other, cause you enjoy sex. If you're just licking her pussy, then you're the guy who made dinner for two hours and then invited her over. If you just fuck her and cum and she is unsatisfied, then you're the guy who chucked the frozen food into the oven.

[–]NeoreactionSafe 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Provide Masculinity Itself

The number one thing missing in the modern woman's life is the polarized to masculine male human being.

Women seek an internal polarity... they want to be attracted to something.

The material stuff is pretty trivial after that.

And women are attracted to either Dark or Light forces... so you can be for her benefit or her harm in the spiritual sense, but the Beta looks to a female as another female without any polarity and just rather stupid. Women see the Beta as a lessor equal to themselves.

Essentially the Beta is seen by women as a "stupid chick".


[–]Senior Endorsed ContributorFieldLine 1 point2 points  (0 children)

In general, before you do something that benefits her more than it benefits you, ask yourself, Would I do this for my best guy friend? That will get you through 90% of the situations you encounter.

In general, if you wouldn't do it for a good guy friend, you shouldn't do it for her.

The trouble with this advice is that I'm pretty liberal with my guy friends. If a male friend of mine asks me to lend him some cash to make rent, usually I'll help him out if I can. Likewise, if I'm passing by the school cafeteria, I'll grab him a cup of coffee if he asks because I'm always happy to help a brotha out. Not so much the case for women.

It's really too bad that I have to pull this shtick with women. I want to be the nice guy. It makes me feel good to help her out. But hey, this is the way women want to play the game, I'm only following the rules.

[–]slater2j 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yesterday I took new prospect out ice skating. I paid for her rental skates (like $8). She was terrible but I'm a great skater so I was teaching her and holding her as she stumbled along. I put her on the side and told her to rest while I went for a couple fast laps to stretch my legs. She was visibly impressed but I was telling her how great she was doing in a manner not dissimilar to how I praise my daughters progress on things "good job, you're doing great, watch out for this and that..."

Afterwards we went out for dinner and she paid, probably around $70. I held her at the table and whispered in her ear "thank you, I appreciate that" then kissed her neck several times (this after much micro escalations during dinner).

We fucked in my SUV about 20 mins later at this lookout spot. She texted me shortly after I dropped her off at home telling me that it was such a great date and she wants to see me again.

I would now officially call her a plate. This was our 3rd date. Met off tinder, so it's not like I'm this crazy Chad, I still have work to improve.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

realistically, how do you ask a girl to dinner or go out on a date with her, then tell her to pay, or ask her to split the bill? whats an alpha way of doing that without coming off as cheap. im still pretty blue, but to me it seems more alpha to say i'll get it you can get dessert, or the next time

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Excellent post, it is something I was looking for as I have just cut off all of my plates and agreed to exclusivity with one of them. She has been dead on equal and my biggest fear is becoming a provider who is no longer seen as a sexual equal. Spot on

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (4 children)

Would I do this for my best guy friend?

Pretty spot on way to think about situations, easy as well.

Why do you think so many girls get the hots for their attractive teachers in high school and college? The only times she ever sees him is when he is the master of his domain.

This makes complete sense as well, very good insight in the situation. When you as a male are on top of your game you'll naturally be more confident, and even a beta will have alpha traits (which might 'trick' the woman into liking you, but when you see her outside your specialty zone attraction will quickly fade).

[–]SeekingTheWay 1 point2 points  (3 children)

This is why I start my date routine with physical activity of my choice and I always chose something only after I gained enough skill to teach it to a newbie. That way I am always leading and they love it.

[–]Randythegeologist 1 point2 points  (2 children)

I remember taking a girl to a small bar I hung out at to "teach" her to play pool then she watched me play against and beat all my boys there (they let me off abit because girl) it was insane how attractive she found this. Me being arrogant and really good at something jus made her act completely different towards me.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (1 child)

Playing pool is a pretty good suggestion for a first date, might actually do that.

[–]Randythegeologist -1 points0 points  (0 children)

It's a good excuse aswell, "oh you can't play pool, come I'll teach you" and then your usually already at a bar. Just make sure you can play

[–]Fulp_Piction 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I agree with the most part, but RP Commandment one is "stop giving your attention to her if you're not getting sex, go work on yourself", this coupled with pre-selection is the whole reason dread game works.

While making a covert contract for sex in exchange for money, favours or gifts is the key ingredient in an average frustrated chump casserole, attention is sex, prolonged attention is commitment. While men want sex, women want attention, they're synonymous with one another. It isn't to say that women don't want sex, we know they do, but that's why they'll sit and have dinner with BB, then go fuck AF. Validation.

If we can include so overtly something as valuable to the majority of women as attention, we can include sex. While I could do without it, I don't have to. It's valuable to me in a relationship, and I don't intend to stroke my gf's ego if she's not stroking my cock.


Edit: a word.

[–]seducer4real -1 points0 points  (4 children)

This cleared up quite a few things. How do you split the food bill equally? Do you mention it upfront or expect it? How about if there is a language barrier between you and the girl? Thanks.

[–]TRPMaidenSlayer 0 points1 point  (1 child)

In an LTR or ongoing relationship, which seems to be the frame of this post, this is typically already established.

Here's a hint: If you enter a relationship 100% paying for everything, the chances of moving towards a 50/50 split later on are far more difficult / nearly impossible...

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Not entirely true, but moving from paying to going 50/50 will hurt your frame. It's almost an admission of dishonesty, saying, "I was willing to pay for you to get in your pants, but now that I'm in I'm backing off of that commitment." It's an admission that you were once beta bux, even if she didn't realize it then. I did this with a previous LTR (prior to TRP) and she scoffed for a little while and finally accepted it. You still should make the transition, just be prepared for the backlash and momentary damage to your frame.

[–]hartke20g 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I would suggest that for splitting the bill, when you ask your server for the bill, also ask him/her to split it, then immediately carry on where you left off. It gives your girl no time to be appalled or angry that you're not paying for her entertainment and puts you in a position of power, so now if she questions it, she'll look & feel like a little girl who assumes she's entitled to free entertainment. She'll also think that you're not going to let her walk all over you and shower her with gifts.

If you're not paying attention and forget to tell the server to split the bill immediately, then when the bill comes you can (firmly) ask your girl for her credit card so you can put both cards towards the bill evenly. Again, the important part is to do it naturally and not in a way that feels like "Ha! I got her to pay for herself!" But rather in a way that says "No ma'am, this was the plan all along. This is not just your time, Mr. Spicoli, it's our time, and I expect fairness." When I've done this, I like to also review the bill as it helps me act more naturally since I'm pretty meticulous about money anyway.

Note: do not split a bill down the middle of either of you has spent a decent amount more on food/drinks than the other. If you ordered 3 cocktails and she had 1, it makes you look cheap; if she ordered 3 and you had 1, then it makes you look like a BB/pushover.

[–]Skotska 0 points0 points [recovered]

Nice post, but I have a question.

Normally when I cook for me and my LTR I just tell her to leave me alone, because I simply cannot cook with anyone else assisting me. It's a lot quicker if I do it alone and no one bothers me. Do you think this projects a wrong image of me?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

You have to look at it as a whole. How does she reciprocate? Is she grateful when you make her a meal? Does she tell you how good it is? Does she do the dishes afterwards?

I'd say you're probably missing an opportunity to lead, but it might be tough to transition back to that if you've set a precedent. The idea is that she isn't taking you for granted. That's the most important part. If she's sitting on the couch asking when the food will be ready then you have a huge problem. If she's helping you with other chores while you cook then it's fine.

[–]Skotska -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Thanks. As far as I can tell she does appreciate it a lot and doesn't just take it for granted, which means doing some cleaning I tell her to do or something else. I think I'm in the green.

[–]hartke20g 0 points1 point  (0 children)

As RP Doctor said, if she's vegetating while you slave over a hot stove, you're doing it wrong. But that can be changed; I actually changed that status quo somewhat recently with my LTR. I would say that before, I would cook about 50% of the time and when I did, she would be doing homework or something else for herself. Once I realized that by allowing this, I was putting in way more effort than she was, I put a stop to it (and you can, too).

What I did was both the advice as-suggested as well as channel the "inner 1960s man", wrongly labeled in society as misogynist behavior. What I mean by that is I projected confidence (sometimes even faking it if necessary) and control of the situation. Depending on circumstances I would also communicate more to my LTR instead of just shutting her out of something she wasn't part of or didn't understand.

Some examples:

"I'm gonna cook dinner tonight; make some ___ so it can be ready when I'm done." This tells her you're both doing something to benefit both of you, but also you're in control and she needs to do X for you and when you want it, not whenever she feels like it.

At a social event- "I'm going to fix us some drinks. Go serve me a plate." Personally, I pour myself a nice stiff drink and mix her something girly-looking. Note: this works well in my situation because we come from Hispanic backgrounds, so men only drink straight liquor/beer; any guy seen drinking something colorful is immediately called a maricón.

"I need to take (pet) outside; make sure to cook the bacon well." This says that breakfast is already expected and there was never any doubt about who is making it. IMO it is more salient when you specify you want something that she doesn't, this way she thinks she is making it for you and not just making a large meal and giving you whatever is left over.

As was said before, it's also important to make her an active part in anything you do when she's present (provided it wouldn't be completely pointless). I know that for many things it would be easier to just do it all yourself, but that puts her into the "entitlement" mindset. So have her help you or even just watch to learn.

My line of thinking is that if I'm going to be her man, then she's going to be my woman. As her man, she expects me to do the manly things she can't do; as my woman, I expect her to do the womanly things I don't have time to do/would rather not do.

Apologies for any rambling/format trouble. I didn't intend for this post to be so long.

[–]reaxxionrj -1 points0 points  (0 children)

This is good and I agree with pretty much of all of it

[–]Shift_Tex -1 points0 points  (0 children)

This is an amazing post. I'd always had doubts about how one can be in an LTR and fill the "beta bux" role without actually becoming it.

[–]Valentinus9171 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Etch these words in stone, well put sir.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Great post. This is something I sometimes struggle with, especially around holidays, anniversaries, valentines day birthdays etc. The expectation is there and you cant always "pure alpha" your way into not doing it.