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LTRDating an Alpha Widow- My 2 year journey from BluePill to RedPill and the things I learned... (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by spuriousacademy

Summary: After a 2 year disaster LTR in which I played the ultimate beta and suffered from depression and anxiety, I swallowed the Red Pill. 2 years on, here is my story and the things I learnt.

Body:

This is my first thread post here on TRP. Been lurking for a while and have decided to share my journey with the community. I hope it helps some people. I don't claim to be an expert, I just want to help other young guys.

Let me start by painting a picture for you...

I was 22 years old. I'd finished college and about to enrol in a postgraduate course. My dating history so far? Pitiful. I had one LTR when I was 18-19 and then another LTR from the age of 20-22. To my shame I had managed to spend 4 years at college, and how many notches did I have in my bedpost? Two. My lack of sexual prowess made me feel worthless and ashamed.

The reason? Crippling lack of confidence with girls, low self esteem, depression, anxiety resulting in ED (This really was the main issue), and general beta outlook on the world. This can all be traced back to experiences between the ages of 13-18, but that's another story for another time. I look back on those times now and shudder, but I've gone past the self-loathing and regret phase, and now I see them as important learning stages.

So i'm 22 years old and I meet a girl at a party. She's pretty good looking 7/10, also 22, and we instantly hit it off. I've been single for a few months and recently been crushed by a case of unrequited Oneitis. My beta psyche tells me she 'understands me' and we start dating. I felt comfortable around her, she was confident and 'knew who she was'. The anxiety induced ED vanishes and we jump into a LTR. The sex is great.

But the red flags started appearing early on:

The first time we had sex I was told this: 'Normally I would sleep someone after a couple of dates, but I like you, I want us to wait, I want this to be special.'

Translation: All the Chads I've fucked on one night stands can have my body, but you Beta male, you have to wait. The price has now gone up for something that used to be free. Why didn't I see this for the red flag it was? This was an obvious sign of an Alpha Widow. But I was an idiot, I didn't even know what an Alpha Widow was...

My 22 year old beta brain, in a warped attempt to make sense of this, went along with it. 'Yes' I thought to myself , 'she thinks i'm special.' 'Don't worry about the other guys she's been with, they meant nothing to her compared to me, we all make mistakes, she's a modern girl and I shouldn't judge.'

Yet there was a nagging inside me. 'How many people have you slept with?', she asked me one night after sex. 'You're number three', I replied sheepishly. 'Same here!' she exclaimed.

I went to sleep that night content that we were on the same playing field, that she'd had a couple of relationships in her past and so had I, big deal. Yet deep down I knew that something wasn't right, it just didn't square up with her previous stance of making me wait for sex, as opposed to what she would 'usually' do, and it didn't fit with the language she had used - If you only have 2 exes, would you refer to them as 'All my past lovers'? What a total chump I turned out to be...

Fast forward to 3 months later, and what do we do? We move in together. That's right we MOVED IN TOGETHER only 3 months into our relationship. It was clear she was itching to settle down, she'd had her fun and now she wanted the domestic life with her beta male. She talked about family, the future. So we moved out of the city and into the suburbs. She completely dominated the decision, and I moved away from my friends to be trapped in a suburban hellhole with nothing to do. My social life began to revolve around her and her work colleagues. She worked just a short drive away. Me? I had to spend two hours on public transport every day to get back into the city to work. It was clear that this location suited her far more than me.

And then it happened.

Just a couple of weeks after we moved in together, as we are lying there naked in post-coital bliss, she drops the bomb that changes everything...

'I feel like I know you so well now, I love you so much, I feel I can tell you anything' she says to me.

'You know when I told you I had only been with 3 guys...'

I take a deep breath...

'Yes...' I say back to her.

'Well It's not true.. It's 14.'

Those words hit me like a knife through my beta heart. All this time, the person who I thought I knew, who I was convincing myself was right for me, hadn't been that person at all. She wasn't the good girl, she had confirmed what I really knew deep down. She had been riding the cock carousel for three years at college and had been ploughed by 13 different men. She was an Alpha widow.

I felt physically sick that I had been betrayed and that my precious girlfriend had been used by more cocks than I could count on my hands. My beta victim complex kicked in. Why did she do this to me? Why would she tell me now after sex? Why didn't she just keep it a secret? All it did was remind me of my previous sexual failings.

She instantly turned herself into the victim - 'Well if you can't handle my past, you're not a real man', she said. She even said 'It's not my fault that guys wanted to fuck me, and it's not my fault that no girls wanted to fuck you.' It was clear that she felt insecure about her slutty past and tried to rationalise it by blaming me for being inadequate.

Several days pass without talking to eachother. My beta brain tries to rationalise it. I cry like a fucking pussy. The BluePill world tells me that I'm being a dick, that I'm being unreasonable, that I'm being sexist. So what do I do? Like the ultimate beta fool that I was, I get down on my knees and apologise. I apologise for being judgemental and we agree to move on with the relationship. What a fail.

For the next two years, I never forget her CC riding slut past. It starts to affect me mentally, I constantly go through life counting things in thirteens, thirteen trees, thirteen paving stones, thirteen clouds, thirteen cups in my drawer, thirteen pigeons sitting on that tree. Everything reminds me of the number of men that have had her, and how she gave it up so easily to so many. We go on holidays, we buy furniture, we get a car together, we get a cat (I hate cats). Day by day I am becoming more and more financially trapped in the relationship. I believe on TRP you guys call it 'sunken costs'. I know It can't last, but I'm too much of a coward to do anything about it. Every time we have sex, I am reminded that I am number 14.

More red flags appear:

  • She keeps in touch with many of her 'former lovers.'
  • She goes for coffee with one of them.
  • She reveals her flings all across the world from when she was 'travelling'. She dismisses my concerns as 'Oh he was only a fling when I was travelling.'
  • She mentions the names of her ex boyfriends in conversation.
  • She complains that I'm not doing enough around the house (I was in fact doing the majority of the cooking and housework)
  • I start to wonder whether she's still lying to me about the number

We argue. My beta self tells her how upset I am, and that she ought to cut contact with her ex 'lovers', out of respect for me. After all, I purposefully don't keep in touch with my exes out of respect for our new relationship. Isn't that basic human decency?

She reluctantly agrees to cut contact with them, dismissing it as a result of my own insecurities.

But again... she lied.

I glance at her phone one day and see a text message. A guy she was fucking at college - A married professor with two kids. Again I confront her, and she tells me to 'stop being so insecure.'

At this point I know I have to get out of this relationship. I know that I can have no LTR future with someone with such a promiscuous past, and lack of respect for me, for herself, or the relationship.

She then starts witholding sex, using sex as a weapon of control. The relationship culminates in a huge and violent argument when I finally crack and shout at her 'I guess you got all your fucking days out of the way before you met me.' She doesn't take this well. 'I'm leaving' I said to her, and she breaks down in tears begging me to stay. I nearly do. I so so nearly do. But I don't.

2 years in, this damaging relationship comes to an end and I am finally free. I move back into the city, get a sweet apartment of my own and decide to take The Red Pill. No more beta, from now on, you become the man you want to be.

At this point I didn't know what TRP was, but subconsciously I knew what had to be done. I read a shitload on human psychology, PUA, The Game, and hit the gym. I used every PUA tactic I could (I basically used The Game as a guidebook). I hooked up with girls in bars, even girls I met on public transport, and screwed the 3 hottest girls in the office. The ego boost you get when three girls pass eachother on the stairs and you've slept with all of them is immense. I had a few fuck buddies, and even a drunken threesome. This was great! I couldn't seem to stop. By actively forcing myself to behave like an Alpha I had cracked the code to getting girls to sleep with me. It wasn't so much about appearance or having a gym body - It was about confidence. In the beginning it was an act, but then it became ME. It was about approaching girls and projecting such an Alpha mentality that they couldn't resist.

Had I become a Chad? Maybe, maybe not. I even began to get a reputation as a player, something which just turned on the girls even more. The more of them I slept with, the more my SMV rose. It was snowballing and I was fucking loving it.

I discovered so much about women, and their mentality that It eventually became quite easy. I used the same pickup lines, I lied to them, I flashed the cash, my neighbour parked his Aston Martin DB9 outside my apartment - was it mine? Hell no! Did the girls I brought back think it was mine? Hell yes!

I had finally worked it all out and become the Alpha I wanted to be. The less I cared, the more attention I got. The more I treated women like toys rather than goddesses, the more success I had. I had Game down to a fine art. I perfectly worked out how to raise SMV, and more importantly I learned about which girls to avoid:

For Example:

  • The girl I met who refused to use contraception (Red Flag, Run Away)

  • The girl who took offence when I asked her to 'dress sexy' in a text message (Red Flag, Raging Feminazi)

  • The girl who admitted to 50+ ex partners and wanted to LTR (Red Flag, Not making that mistake again, although a spent an incredible few weeks with her before throwing her on the scrapheap. We no longer talk)

I had finally learnt my lessons. But make no mistake, I had to keep a constant eye on my previous beta tendencies creeping back in. I'm not sure I ever became a true A+ Alpha, but I was certainly an A-

So where am I now you ask?

Well, to tell you the truth I eventually got tired of the hook-ups and pickups and after 2 years of being single and sowing my seed far and wide, I wanted a new LTR, I wanted something more regular. But now I knew what I was looking for. I'm now 26 with a healthy amount of sexual experience and I have banished most of my insecurities. My new girlfriend is 20 and a legitimate HB9. Result.

She has had 1 previous partner and It's an absolute blast to be more sexually experienced than her, and help to teach her about sexuality without all the baggage of an Alpha Widow. She is submissive, doesn't bitch at me when I just want to hang with the guys, in fact - she doesn't bitch at me for anything. The most important thing is that she isn't jaded by the CC, she hasn't had 13 different dudes pumping her. Am I at risk of Oneitis with this girl? Yes I am, but after all, I have a 20 y/o HB9 with an N-Count of 1. I'm not going to move in with her or marry her any time soon, but right now the relationship seems so healthy and natural with a dominant experienced male and young submissive female, and I'm taking each day as it comes.

Lessons Learned:

  • Lesson 1: Do not LTR a girl with a high N-Count. I can't stress this enough. This is the single most important point here.

  • Lesson 2: Do not LTR a girl who keeps in touch with exes. She has zero respect for you and zero respect for herself or the relationship. Don't let modern girls collect ex partners like fucking Pokemon cards.

  • Lesson 3: Do not tolerate a LTR who still has exes as friends on social media, or indeed pictures of them. Would you keep photos of exes in your house? No, so the same principle should be applied to social media. Do not let girls normalize this disrespectful behaviour.

  • Lesson 4: Don't LTR a girl who used to give out sex for free, and then puts the price up by making you wait. It's the sign of an Alpha Widow.

  • Lesson 5: If you suffer from anxiety related ED, just get some goddamn viagra to get you over the hump. That's what I did. It does wonders for your confidence. Likelihood is that you'll only have to use it once or twice and your problems will go away.

  • Lesson 6: Remain vigilant to your previous beta tendencies creeping in, e.g Oneitis. None of us are immune.

  • Lesson 7: Do not let the feminist media tell you the sexual 'double standard' is unfair. It is the way of the natural world.

  • Lesson 8: If you want a LTR, it's better if she's younger than you.

  • Lesson 9: Do not get yourself into a LTR until you have spent some time spreading your seed far and wide.

Thanks for reading.


[–][deleted] 86 points87 points  (28 children)

13 men

One was a married professor.

I'm guessing it was way more then 13..

At least you got it when you did. The part where she said you aren't a real man made my blood boil a little.. Shaming language like that is something I've never been able to handle..

[–]Workout_Ham 38 points39 points  (8 children)

It sounds more like 39 Guys. Not counting all the guys she sucked off and gave hand jobs to. You know because that's not sex lol

[–]clawjelly 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Or 37...?

[–]obeasesnowflake 11 points12 points  (5 children)

I think oral sex is more intimate than P-in-V, am I alone?

I've heard a girl say that oral doesn't count as sex. I was baffled.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

As far as STDs are concerned it's probably worse then condom sex

[–]acetylcysteine 3 points4 points  (0 children)

a lot of girls would rather suck a dick than let you fuck them. beats me, because i'd rather fuck a girl than eat her out.

[–]redolas 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It actually makes sense. You can't have a baby from oral sex, so it's not sex. Think of primal urges, not intimacy.

[–]chainlinks 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That girl.... is a whore.

And you should probably text her this weekend.

[–]Man_Jose 11 points12 points  (1 child)

The part where she said you aren't a real man made my blood boil a little.. Shaming language like that is something I've never been able to handle..

Just say coolly,"Oh yeah, fine!" (walk out/make her move out/go for a walk/go fuck another chick/do whatever the fuck you want...except what she wants aka, don't give her any attention. Treat her like garbage)

[–]TheGillos 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm never able to handle comments like that either. I lose my composure and laugh in their faces. Hah.

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Definitely more than 13. But at that point it doesn't really matter.

[–]watcher45 7 points8 points  (1 child)

Women can't tell men what it takes to be a real man. They dont know how so their opinion is irrelevant.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It's not their opinion tho. When they say shit lie that you are most likely being cheated on, and they are basically blaming you..

[–]arrayay 2 points3 points  (10 children)

If you want to stoop to her level the equivalent is shame her breast size... she is just not enough woman. And they have to be natural too.

Unless she is a landwhale, in which case her breasts would also be enormous... but I'd hope it doesn't need mentioned on TRP that you shouldn't be with a landwhale.

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (5 children)

I like tight little boobs tho

[–]arrayay 11 points12 points  (4 children)

This has nothing to do with your personal preference. All women are insecure about their breast size. If your goal is to shame a woman and shut her up...

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (3 children)

They are more worried about being fat..

[–]arrayay 4 points5 points  (2 children)

Region may have a lot to do here. I agree, in most of the world this is a likely a better target. But specifically to the USA (and I guess UK and Australia), if you look around you can tell obviously most women don't care about being fat. Hell, many are way beyond 'fat' into morbid obesity territory.

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (1 child)

Oh, they care.. Trust me, they care.

Call one a fatass during an argument and you'll quickly see just how much they care

[–]juliusstreicher 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Unless she is a landwhale, in which case her breasts would also be enormous

Sadly, this is not necessarily the case.

[–]arrayay 1 point2 points  (0 children)

However sad a case you can find, there will always be worse. Be careful, in madness lies this reflection.

[–]GeminiEngine 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Yeah but what about when your ex has DD?

[–]Endorsed Contributoralways-be-closing 56 points57 points  (7 children)

Sexual History Matters

It matters so much women do their utmost not to talk about it. It matters so much human females evolved hidden ovulation.

Patterns matter, priors matter, causality is, as it turns out, a real verifiable thing, and correlations indicate it.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

"You are less of a man if you can't handle my past. My number shouldn't matter."

"Then how did you know to lie about it the first time hoe?"

[–]jiveraffe 13 points13 points [recovered]

It matters so much human females evolved hidden ovulation.

And human males evolved a penis to "scoop out" competing semen. (Some scientists got bored and bought a whole load of rubber dicks. Must have made for an interesting expense report.

[–]fingerthemoon 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I read that theory was debunked. Along with sperm competition. Sex at Dusk: Lifting the Shiny Wrapping from Sex at Dawn

[–]bigdickbanditss 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Literal bro science. "Dude it looks like a shovel right so I'm like thinking maybe it was made to scoop out cum xd"

A meme that was debunked numerous times, please stop posting. It doesn't even make sense after thinking about it for a few seconds.

[–]DoNotEatTheTail 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think this chart is great evidence, but it's worth noting that it was compiled 21 years ago. Does anyone know of any similar studies that have been compiled since?

[–]AcidMal 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Can you explain the development of hidden ovulation? And what it is exactly?

[–]fingerthemoon 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Hidden ovulation is speculated to have evolved for paternal uncertainty in males and securing commitment and resources. It's very rare in nature for females to procreate when not ovulating. Humans evolved to have a separation of duties and responsibilities. The human pregnant woman is extremely vulnerable and so are our children so she needed to secure his protection, provision and parental investment. Being sexually available all the time was how this was accomplished as well as pair-bonding. The parental uncertainty helps in cuckolding and reducing infanticide.

Something like that. I wish my memory was better.

Edit: Concealed ovulation

[–][deleted] 84 points85 points  (36 children)

my neighbour parked his Aston Martin DB9 outside my apartment - was it mine? Hell no! Did the girls I brought back think it was mine? Hell yes!

This is hilarious. What would you say when one of them asked to take a ride in it?

'It's not my fault that guys wanted to fuck me, and it's not my fault that no girls wanted to fuck you.'

Hamster meet wheel! Haha "its not my fault guys wanted to fuck me!"... hamster speak for "I was a dirty slut who gave her body away for free and am now ashamed of it". Her insult to you is meaningless.

I glance at her phone one day and see a text message. A guy she was fucking at college - A married professor with two kids. Again I confront her, and she tells me to 'stop being so insecure.'

Ahahahaha "stop being so insecure!"... I mean just because he's married and we used to fuck doesn't mean we have bad morals or anything. And the fact that we still keep in contact totally doesn't mean he stills fucks me. Yeah don't ever LTR a girl whose willing to be a home wrecker.

'Normally I would sleep someone after a couple of dates, but I like you, I want us to wait, I want this to be special.'

You should have been gone after this exchange. If someone is seriously attracted to you, they will want to jump your bones, not make you wait.

Lesson 1: Do not LTR a girl with a high N-Count. I can't stress this enough. This is the single most important point here.

This should be one of the golden rules of TRP if it isn't already. Great for another notch. Never take home to mom.

[–][deleted] 30 points31 points  (29 children)

You should have been gone after this exchange. If someone is seriously attracted to you, they will want to jump your bones, not make you wait.

Lesson 1: Do not LTR a girl with a high N-Count. I can't stress this enough. This is the single most important point here. You should have been gone after this exchange. If someone is seriously attracted to you, they will want to jump your bones, not make you wait.

This should be one of the golden rules of TRP if it isn't already. Great for another notch. Never take home to mom.

Don't you think there's a contradiction here? If a girl immediately jumps on you, she has probably done so before. Two dates, more or less, is not enough to form affection beyond the superficial. A women who is pursuing a long-term strategy should make every guy wait a little while.

[–]BrenzoG 51 points52 points  (15 children)

This is one of the few areas where I disagree with redpill logic. If a girl is withholding sex from you, and she's doing it because of a lack of experience. she's playing her cards well and you should be happy about it.

If she's withholding because you're the beta male she wants to tie down... Run, don't walk.

[–]skoobled 29 points30 points  (11 children)

The problem is it's a double bind for a guy: anytime I've been wanting a relationship, I'd prefer her not to give it up too easily. It shows that's she's not easy, and might be of reliable quality... But most girls nowadays will write you off as a loser if you don't slay them on the first date. So basically it's a slut market whether you like it or not

[–]BrenzoG 5 points6 points  (8 children)

100% agree. Good women are few and far between this generation.

[–]fingerthemoon 4 points5 points  (2 children)

Unicorns don't exist. The sooner you stop looking the better.

[–]BrenzoG 11 points12 points  (1 child)

Another part of redpill logic I don't agree with. Nobody is perfect yeah, but there are plenty of women out there worth your time. How much depends on you.

[–]zue3 1 point2 points  (4 children)

I think the only women worth it for ltr are the younger ones. Chances are they haven't had too many past relationships and some(rare few) are actually virgins. You should do your own research first of course.

[–]BrenzoG 1 point2 points  (3 children)

Young/foreign girls definitely have a better chance yeah. But I hate the whole "there are literally 0 decent women" No there are, they just happen to be few and far between at the moment.

[–]zue3 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I agree but I can see why they'd think that though. I'm in India right now and there are still college age virgins around over here. Which are practically nonexistent in the West.

[–]BrenzoG 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah I found one the other week actually and was genuinely shocked hahaha.

[–]fingerthemoon 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Times have changed thanks largely to the internet, smartphones, contraception and feminism. Everything is telling them it's okay to fuck, so if she's holding back that's almost a sign of problems.

Even before, when I was in my 20s the internet was in it's infancy and no iPhone, yet still I fucked every girl withing 48 hours of meeting, even virgins.

Every attractive girl you meet over 18 has already had more experience than you want to know about. Don't ask, don't tell is my policy. I've given up on love and relationships. There's no winning for losing with women.

[–]chaosmech 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think it's an issue of contrast. Does she give it up regularly and easily on first dates for other guys? Then yeah, dump her on the spot. Does she hold tight to her sexuality for possibly months, have a (verifiably) low N-count, and does this for every guy she's with? Then she might be worth keeping.

[–][deleted] 18 points19 points  (1 child)

Agreed. If she makes all guys wait and doesn't give it up easily and has been consistent about this then that is a good sign... For an LTR anyhow.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Very good sign. Especially if she wants it but controls herself.

[–]Endorsed Contributoralways-be-closing 26 points27 points  (0 children)

. A women who is pursuing a long-term strategy should make every guy wait a little while.

In fact, a woman of high SMV who is specifically pursuing a long term relationship would even go so far as to hold out entirely on sex - - she might even require something like a financial token of commitment and public request to only be with her in a formalized proposition before she'd be willing to have sex.

Nah, I bet no culture ever developed that kind of ritual, though.

[–][deleted] 16 points17 points  (0 children)

Its hard to thread the needle. I would generally say 3 dates for sex is the sweet spot, give or take another date (or two on the back end).

Basically if you fall into the sex after 2-5 dates category you're in good shape, it means the girl has some control over her libido, is not an impulsively destructive decision maker, and most of all, is attracted to you.

A girl who is attracted to you will want to jump you and not make you wait to give off the illusion she is some pure princess. That's one side of it. If she tries to jump you the first time you are ever seeing each other and you are essentially complete strangers (yes meeting someone 1-2 times with intermittent texting can get people comfortable), that is as much as red flag as making a guy wait months.

[–]--SLUT_SLAYER-- 9 points10 points  (2 children)

This really is a difficult and complex answer.

I've noticed that alot of easy women are completely dependent and clingy 'shitty LTR material'

But alot of difficult women are only difficult because they are faking a good girl facade now that they're out of cc tickets and are 'shitty LTR material'

At the same time, alot of high smv HB9s of the 'smart and successful' variety who are 'moderate-great LTR material' in their late 20s and early 30s will put up a bit of a sexual fight since they have been tricked by men who disappeared. Not necessarily alpha widows but just trp-alpha widowed who have been bested by guys with some game who don't believe in marriage (I've been that guy).

Really complex and hard to tell! I would shun hard and fast rules.

[–]druganswer 8 points8 points [recovered]

Real HB9+s don't often get alpha widowed. I know scales depend on the person, but IMO a 9+ doesn't know anything but guys getting oneitis for them. Even to the not getting married guys they will seem like unicorns if they play their cards right.

9+ girls get alpha widowed by celebs, rock stars, I'm sure the occasional young alpha as fuck entrepreneur. Chad from the local frat isn't going to alpha widow these girls, because even he usually gives into their charms. 7 and 8s I would absolutely believe this about... Guys don't often ghost 9's... Of course the rare guy that does will absolutely destroy her lol

[–]fingerthemoon 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Good answer. The game changes entirely the higher her smv.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

deleted What is this?

[–]www777com 3 points4 points  (1 child)

No contradiction in this situation. In which situations below would you write this 22 year old HB7 off as not LTR material?

  1. all 15 guys (including you) didn't have to wait

  2. all 14 guys didn't have to wait except you

  3. all 15 guys (including you) had to wait

  4. all 14 guys had to wait except you

Though 3 and 4 are preferable to 1 and 2, with this girl being 22, she's not pursuing long-term strategy at 14+ partners (I added the + because knowing what I know now, if I were the OP, I'd just assume this is trickle truth).

[–]Newdist2 2 points3 points  (0 children)

All of them. Because 14 guys.

[–]Floatinggirldinosaur 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is where AWALT comes in. Your Porsche is going to need to give you the speed you desire. Whether it be new or used, your car will give you the result you're looking for. You simply want to be as close to the original owner as possible. They all give the same result if you're doing it right.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes this is true, the key is whether everyone has to wait, or just you

[–]UnluckyPenguin 2 points2 points [recovered]

Don't you think there's a contradiction here? If a girl immediately jumps on you, she has probably done so before.

What if she's never done so before?

There's been several girls that were extremely innocent, but during the first date they jumped on me. One of them was a virgin, which I actually feel bad about in retrospect.

A women who is pursuing a long-term strategy should make every guy wait a little while.

I will agree with you on a technicality. They "should" play hard to get, but even strong self-control won't stop them from being intimate with their first alpha.

[–]Man_Jose 3 points4 points  (2 children)

my neighbour parked his Aston Martin DB9 outside my apartment - was it mine? Hell no! Did the girls I brought back think it was mine? Hell yes!

This is hilarious. What would you say when one of them asked to take a ride in it?

Not OP, but I'd just say, "Do you have $500/hr to spare?" (smile slyly)

[–]the_number_2 7 points8 points  (0 children)

"And lose that awesome parking spot? Keep dreaming ;)"

"You know the rule: ass, gas, or grass. So what'll it be?"

[–]tallwheel 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Her insult to you is meaningless.

No it isn't. It means "You're a pathetic beta who wouldn't even be able to get sex at all if it weren't for me. I have higher SMV. I am dominant in this relationship."

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Actually it is meaningless. If he was really such a pathetic beta, she wouldn't be with him. She was feeling dirty and whoreish because her partner count was much higher, and in order for her hamster to feel okay with that, she burst out with the "its not my fault guys wanted to fuck me and girls didnt want to fuck you". In the first part of the sentence she is saying that she isn't a slut, guys threw themselves at her and she was just a perfect princess starfish. In the second part of the sentence, she insults him to make herself feel more powerful. She just stripped her armor away by admitting she was a slut and trying to justify it with a poor excuse, now she needs to lash out, hence the second part.

[–]tallwheel 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If he was really such a pathetic beta, she wouldn't be with him.

Why not? She was with him for the beta bucks. She was looking to "settle down".

[–]The_Man11 63 points64 points  (12 children)

I have a 20 y/o HB9 with an N-Count of 1.

'I feel like I know you so well now, I love you so much, I feel I can tell you anything' she says to me.

'You know when I told you I had only been with 1 guy...'

[–][deleted] 20 points21 points  (0 children)

I was thinking the same thing brother. This sounds like a case of oneitis

[–]LeWaZoh 14 points14 points [recovered]

I guess he's experimented enough to know if she talks bs by now

[–]spuriousacademy[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I understand what you're saying, but I have much more experience with women now, I can tell when they're lying.

It may not be 1, but it's certainly less than 3. You can just tell these things after you learn to recognise the signs.

[–]ChadThundercockII 0 points1 point  (0 children)

How many blowjobs and handjobs ?

[–][deleted] 26 points27 points  (55 children)

This post has given me hope, because out of all TRP articles I've read, this resonates with me the most.

I went through the same apologetic phase you went through, where they make you think you're the cunt for wanting respect from them. I went through the tears aswell.

So thanks for that.

This ED that you had, was it because of your size, which resulted in a lack of confidence? I'm 5.4 inches, and like most guys I worry if it's too small.

My LTR of 2 years once said, when I asked her if I was hurting her (because she was making some moaning noises), "Sex with you is good because it feels nice and doesn't hurt. With my past partners it used to hurt."

This shit crippled me because i started thinking that I wasn't big enough.

I should probably make my own post about this, but you seem like you might have some good advice for me.

[–]mrpCamper 28 points29 points  (22 children)

Human size actually varies rather little. It's a bell curve with a long right side. About 80% of men being within 1.5 inches of each other (If I remember correctly about 5 to 6.5 inches. Something like 5% below that with very few approaching 4. And then you get 15% above that and the size gets pretty large but that's like 2 or 3 in 100 over 7 ro 7.5. This is for white people. Asian is smaller and black larger. Black has a longer right side tail with a higher percentage in it.

Vaginas are made so that it only takes a few inches to hit the right spots. There is also another spot further down that is more uncommon to hit. But to do the basic magic almost all are capable.

Also, when you ask women what size they like they all say monster cocks that are so far off this spectrum of normalcy. They obviously have no clue what they are talking about or they've all had sex with that one monster cock guy and loved it. So, if that is so, great for him but the other 95% are fine.

Source: Certified Human Sexuality Instructor. Not my day job but spent a lot of time on this and as you can imagine kids want to know the answer to that question. If I were you, I'd worry more about the length of time you spend in there.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (11 children)

Media and porn have me thinking I need like at least 6.5 to be able to keep women coming back for more. Thanks for this, hope it's right.

[–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (6 children)

I'm willing to almost guarandamtee that no woman can tell the difference between 5.5 and 6.5 inches.

[–]mrpCamper 5 points6 points  (5 children)

I think you're right and the point of the lesson is that, sure, get them a 7+ and they're like wow, this is awesome. But the chances are that most women with somewhat respectable n counts have been in the 5.25 to 6.25 range for their say 10 partners. Now get 5 of them together at a happy hour and we'll say one of them has also banged a guy at 7.25 and she was all like "IT WAS HUGE!!"

Now surely, we can pretend that 7.25 gets laid significantly more than the 5.4 guy but mostly because of confidence...... and that member has gotten around a little bit more so variety of the women would make it seem like more guys have larger members.

But this is my interpretation of the statistics. nothing more.

[–]1PantsonFire1234 16 points17 points  (4 children)

I'm at 7.5 and when my LTR broke down she told me I wasn't that "big". Throughout that whole ordeal the women couldn't stop talking about it. Kept repeating I was the biggest. I didn't really give a shit if I was or wasn't. Doubt even set in for me after remark.

Women are just cunts and honestly will say anything to get a kick out of you. One moment you're accused of ripping their vagina open and the next your 'not that big'.

Even if you aren't above average, so what. Make sure you enjoy the sex and if she doesn't. Fuck her and dump her.

[–]diomedes777 3 points4 points  (3 children)

My gf complained last week after i fucked her, came on her chest and rolled over to sleep that "i never ask her if she's enjoying herself". I told her to shut up and laughed in her face and literally said "because i don't care" with a grin on my face.

I'm done with it all. Women don't deserve to be pleasured, I just get mine and that's it. It seems to make them hornier because they become aware you're treating them like literal trash. Just fuck them hard, get yours, and you'll be fine.

[–]fingerthemoon 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hahaha. You have no idea how good sex can be you insensitive fuck. No wonder they all get attached to me and say I'm the best lover they ever had, because I actually enjoy making them cum. Dudes like you just make me look better.

[–]1PantsonFire1234 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I can only imagine a women taking that measurement tape with her on all occasions. Checking height and girth continuously. Then complaining that you view them like an object.

[–]Dustin_Bromain 7 points8 points  (2 children)

I'm at 7 inches and women have said post-coitus that they "didn't feel anything from my small dick"; meanwhile, my roommates are texting me the whole time begging me to put a pillow over her mouth because they can't hear the League of Legends game that they're fapping over through their headphones. Shit-tests everywhere man, no big deal.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (1 child)

So it really is true when people say women can't tell 8 inches from 8 miles.

[–]Dustin_Bromain 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I highly doubt it. That's why they usually have to ask what your dick size is.

[–]mrpCamper 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I've presented it to people before with slides and shit so I hope it was right.

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (6 children)

Women have no concept of measurement without an actual ruler in hand. They have no clue how to estimate actual length, due to inferior temporal lobe function as compared to men.

[–]BenjiDread 14 points15 points  (0 children)

So true. If her tingles are satisfied, your dick magically grows.

When she's mad at you, suddenly you've got a tiny penis.

I just ignore the issue. If she enjoys the sex, it doesn't matter. If her vagina is so big that it can't feel my dick, next.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (4 children)

Much more likely that every partner they have lies about it. This "genetically inferior" argument is such bluepill bullshit, it's like looking for an excuse to treat women as lesser. Are men and women equal, not at all, but unless you have a peer-reviewed source in a respected journal for that particular "fact" I'm calling bull.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (3 children)

It's been shown multiple times that men are superior in spatial reasoning. Unsurprisingly, it explains why we are better at math, at least way more math whizzes (most people really good at math often attack problems using visualizations, even if most people can't tell how one could even do that with a particular problem).

[–]1walkingthelinux 2 points3 points  (2 children)

There is also another spot further down that is more uncommon to hit.

This makes everything else you said BS. You don't think that once she's had the thundercock hitting this spot that she won't miss that?

Bullshit. This whole "penis size doesn't matter" is just more blue pill bullshit.

[–]mrpCamper 9 points10 points  (1 child)

From my understanding the amount of units able to reach this spot coupled with the amount of women able to take pleasure from it makes it very uncommon that any given woman has experienced it.

Women do get excited by large members - seeing it and playing with it etc. But as far as vaginal penetration it isn't as important.

[–]103342 35 points36 points  (16 children)

"Sex with you is good because it feels nice and doesn't hurt. With my past partners it used to hurt."

That is a fucking nuclear shit test. Holy fuck.

[–][deleted] 16 points17 points  (6 children)

I don't even know what to think of that shit.

[–]103342 19 points20 points  (4 children)

My personal answer would be to demote her to plate status and don't tell her.

I would actively look for new girls, as an exit strategy from the relationship.

I would push things sexually with her, try to film it also.

I would slowly distance myself from her emotionally, while trying to use her for sex.

You just can't pass a shit test like that.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I've already split up wit her, this was years ago. If I had TRP back then, i'd have done EXACTLY what you just said.

[–]WarmApfelPi 6 points7 points  (1 child)

Donkey punch. "Hurtin' now?"

[–]fingerthemoon 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm 7 3/4" and many have complained if I thrust to deep that it hurts their cervix, especially from behind. Which kinda sucks because it's like pulling punches. Besides, if you enjoy pleasing them (which I do. Just love those convulsions) it's mostly in the tongue anyways as most don't cum from intercourse. I like to ring her bell first and then finish myself while fucking her. Nice guys finish last.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

You gotta flip the script with that one. Say something, couple days later, how you like her because she's really down to earth, doesn't need to have nice things bought for her and doesn't need to be taken out on the town.

Watch her flip her shit.

[–]Dustin_Bromain 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Ack... That one really sucks.

[–]seeing-red- 0 points1 point  (5 children)

"Too bad they couldn't get you wet"

[–]103342 17 points18 points  (1 child)

Honestly dude, in my opinion, if you say that, you lost. It shows that you care about what she feels.

[–]aviolentstream 7 points8 points  (2 children)

That's you qualifying yourself. Fuck that.

[–]seeing-red- 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Heh, guess I'd fail that one then. what would you go with instead?

[–]aviolentstream 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Make no mistake about it, if a bitch says something like that to you she doesn't have a single shred of respect for you. My first thought would be to immediately leave but I think the best option would be to go ahead and bust your nut. Downgrade her to plate without letting her know anything is wrong and spin that bitch till she shatters to pieces

[–]DatFeeler 11 points11 points [recovered]

The most sold sex toy in the world has an insertable length of 5". You're more than fine.

Remember, there is no such thing as a penis too small - only vaginas that are too big.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I'm 6.5, and I worry too.

My brother is 8, and he worried in the past, too. It's a fairly common thing. If you're actually getting laid, you're doing something right.

[–][deleted] 2 points2 points

[permanently deleted]

[–]WhyNotJustEnjoyLife 1 point2 points  (0 children)

As someone who struggled with ED in the past , what worked for me is I stopped watching porn completely, started drinking more water, eating better, running more and lifting heavier and now I can fuck like an ape.

My 2 cents.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

this is more of an FYI for data points, not at all to rub shit in (one of my friends is fucking cursed, and i'll give his story after). i'm a very tall guy and slightly above average. it's very hard to have good sex with girls under 5'7"ish. i tend to pick out the lower n-count women so they're not too loose, and multiple times, i've had 5'4" girls and under literally start crying because it's too painful for them. a girl crying during sex is an instant boner killer.

so now my cursed friend. since high school, lots of people knew he was, extremely well endowed. he was a surf buddy, and that shit had flopped out occasionally. dude is seriously double digits. my shit is barely above average and i've made girls wince over in pain and start crying when i smash into their back wall. and he's practically double my size. he's been relegated to shitty sex for his entire life. he'll never be deep throated, and never go balls deep. and that's even with slutty tall girls.

so just remember to use it right. bigger != better.

[–]pablodiablo906 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Adequate response, "Damn I must be doing it wrong if you're enjoying it that much. Roll over let me get in that ass we'll fix this."

[–]Endorsed ContributorMeat-on-the-table 12 points13 points  (0 children)

No man understands fire more than the burned. These lessons will stay with you for life, as only lessons learned from experience do.

[–]McLarenX 8 points9 points  (2 children)

Not gonna lie man, the thought of you neurotically pairing things in groups of 13 made me laugh. I'm glad everything worked out for you. Everyone here says there's no light at the end of the tunnel, and we're all fucked. Glad there are posts like this that promote positivity and growth by sharing personal revelation.

[–]MrPlaysWithSquirrels 1 point2 points  (1 child)

It's hilarious because instead of growing to not give a fuck, he decides the thing he needs is an inexperienced woman. I don't care how many partners a girl has had before me, and if a girl cares how many I have had, peace. Who the fuck cares? Just screams insecurity that this dude thinks his number one lesson was he shouldn't LTR someone with a high N-count.

[–]McLarenX 6 points7 points  (0 children)

What? No. I'm not on your side. High n count females make shitty partners. Past 10 and that's scorched earth.

[–]FlahFlahFlohi 17 points17 points [recovered]

For the next two years, I never forget her CC riding slut past. It starts to affect me mentally, I constantly go through life counting things in thirteens, thirteen trees, thirteen paving stones, thirteen clouds, thirteen cups in my drawer, thirteen pigeons sitting on that tree. Everything reminds me of the number of men that have had her, and how she gave it up so easily to so many.

Dude I'm sorry I laughed out loud at this...good on you for getting your shit together!

[–]ApexScorpion 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I did too. It was kind of hilarious. Reminds me of Jim Carrey in the movie 23.

[–]jasonmiles2014 5 points6 points  (1 child)

This post is just fucking gold. So well-written.

[–]Thomaskingo 8 points8 points [recovered]

Those words hit me like a knife through my beta heart. All this time, the person who I thought I knew, who I was convincing myself was right for me, hadn't been that person at all. She wasn't the good girl, she had confirmed what I really knew deep down. She had been riding the cock carousel for three years at college and had been ploughed by 13 different men. She was an Alpha widow.

13 is by no measure high. Only bluepill men who isn't enjoying the benefits of the CC believe this to be high. Of any of the women you have had intercourse with afterwards, how many of them do you think have had fewer partners than that (even your unicorn). Her number was probably higher, but then again she's probably also been sexually active since she was 16. That means up until she met you, she probably had sex with as little as 1-3 guys a year. If she wasn't locked down in LTR for any reasonable time, that actually means she wasn't that active - unless you compare to your previous bluepill self. An Alpha widow isn't a women who've ridden the CC. Logically that would mean that pretty much any women in the West is such a person. The term Alpha widow only applies to a women who has - due to complicated emotional mechanisms - imprinted on a specific Alpha and constantly pines for him and would return to him at his will. She's an emotional slave and the imprint destroys her ability to form deeper, more stable and authentic relationships with other men. This will however not stop the Alpha widow from locking down a beta, but she's always emotionally somewhere else. It doesn't even matter, that the guy doesn't conform to high alpha standards. It's like the shadow of him becomes bigger than the person who cast it.

http://therationalmale.com/2012/08/16/blueprint-for-an-alpha-widow/

Edit: Also note, that most woman especially those with partner counts in the low 14 believe, that most average men have have more promiscuous sexual lives than themselves. This is of course not true, but they believe it non the less. It's actually a core bluepill myth.

Edit: See the Iron Rule II of the great Rollo Tomassi:

NEVER, under pain of death, honestly or dishonestly reveal the number of women you’ve slept with or explain any detail of your sexual experiences with them to a current lover.

OP coulden't have known this, but revealing his lower partner count was a big fuckup. The next dumbest thing is asking a girl what her partner count is. Just fucking don't do that shit. I brings all those other guys with you to the table, and if you really want to see how sexually active she is, then just ask her how often she goes out. A big revaluation I can spring on you is, that single girls don't just go out to dance! The club is the hunting grounds of the Alphas. They go there for Alpha cock, so means, motive and opportunity equals frequency of getting pumped and dumped, which most girls actually are surprisingly fine with.

Another misconception I see in you post is, that you think that women ride the cockcarousel and then in the course of their pussy-gets-pounded-every-other-weekend-at-least-career gets fucked by some few alphas, which maybe makes her feel like she has higher standards, than your little old bluepill self can provide. This is wrong. The reality of the cockcarousel is that of the partner count the average women holds, it's probably upwards of 90 % that is Alpha Male cock. This is because the Alpha segment is disproportionately sexual active compared to the median. Another thing is that the pussy price goes up when dealing with a beta doesn't have anything to do with sexual history. It's just intrinsic to female sexual behavior. If you provided Alpha level attraction and she thought you were always on the verge of leaving for another woman, then she wouldn't have been so economical with her body. It's not even her fault; it's just her natural programming.

As a closing note: good on you for getting out and leveling up!

Edit: small changes.

Edit2: The thing about sexual history is, that if the girl relative to other females in her segment, has been more sexually promiscuous, then that indicates that she will be more likely to cheat and branch-swing while in a LTR, than if she's relatively to the norm less sexually active. Thus today a woman can have ample experience with many partners and still be a worthwhile partner. There are no unicorns. To think so is to show you haven't really digested the red pill. This is what differentiate the Red piller from the PUA. The PUA generally understands some lines of code in the Matrix, but hasen't rejected the bluepill conditioning entirely. Let go of the anger, accept the rules of hypergamy. The state of affairs between the genders is a Hobbesian state of nature. Don't hate the player (women) hate the game(evolution), or better yet, become comfortable being uncomfortable! It's only when you let go of the "women who ain't virgins are sluts mentality", that you finally set yourself free of the bluepill conditioning. This sort of thinking is more like niceguys gone dark, than unplugging. Let go of the hate!

Edit3: I draw most of my red pill theory from the great sage Rollo Tomassi!!!

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Spot on. So many men underestimate how easy it is for even an average female to get dick on any given day of the week from top dogs so they underestimate their N counts. It's as easy as walking into a bar, messaging a dude on facial book, tinder, Twitter, Craigslist, you name it. Dudes and even top dudes will take an easy fuck and women know it. That 13 is prob more like 30. That's why you plate and don't hesitate.

[–]1PantsonFire1234 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This will however not stop the Alpha widow from locking down an beta, but she's always emotionally somewhere else. It doesn't even matter, that the guy doesn't conform to high alpha standards. It's like the shadow of him becomes bigger that the person who cast it.

I dated a girl that was like this. Emotionally detached, always pining and comparing. She just wasn't there half of the time. It's a subtle thing and you won't always spot it unless you know what to look for. After splitting up I realized she had been stuck on some guy for a year.

The funny part was that this dude wasn't even impressive by any means. I can't stress this enough, the guy was average at best. The shadow truly becomes bigger than the person. And after that no one can compare.

[–]Askada 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That's excellent definition of an alpha widow.

[–]TRP Vanguardnicethingyoucanthave 3 points4 points  (2 children)

we MOVED IN TOGETHER only 3 months into our relationship.

Ha ha! Been there; done that, my friend. Exactly at the three month mark too. I'll even do you one better: when we broke up, I went and whined about it in /r/relationships. It was on a different account, not this one, but it's something I think about often and cringe. At least you did something to improve yourself afterwards!

I have a buddy that keeps me in check by constantly reminding me about it. He told me she was bad news, but I didn't listen. Now, if I introduce him to a new girl, he says something like, "I'm free this weekend if you need help moving her stuff into your place"

[–]welcome_to 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Well written and brutally honest. Nice work.

[–]Purecorrupt 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I think a lesson you missed is to increase <N> count. Just to put a number on it let's just say N=10 minimum. It will be conducive to increasing confidence and steering resentment.

[–]drqxx 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Lesson 5: saved my fucking sex life. I was still stuck on my divorce even though I pulled the trigger. My dick was BROKEN! but about three doses of Viagra got it fixed.

[–]PM_BOOBS_FOR_PUPPIES 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Same. Just gotta get over that hump. Cialis/Viagra was a lifesaver.

[–]rossiFan 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is a great write-up. It also supports my contention that TRP is simply a natural state for men. I've read more than one story (mine included) where they find that enough is enough, and they normalize as an alpha.

[–]babyface97 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Excellent post my friend, I am glad of seeing this beautiful transition, from beta male to alfa male. Also thank you for the tips, I' m currently 19 years old. Had one case of Oneitis with my ex-grilfiend, she's the reason I'm here working and seeking the best version of myself. I hope you find the LTR you're hoping for.

[–]clonegreen 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Had a similar situation with an Ex, where I was upset at her partner count and she rationalized it by saying:

"But you're special"

Then after some arguing this became:

"Why is it ok for a man to do so but not a woman?"

Mainly because flings and one night stands degrade you since to be honest your body is th

[–]Dustin_Bromain 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I vibe with this post man, I definitely, definitely do... Similar story here; although, maybe worse; i'll let the community decide.

During the second semester of my freshmen year, I entered into an LTR with my crazy possessive ex-girlfriend. Sex was good (at first), shit-tests/comfort-tests were frequent but manageable. I thought I had it made. Unfortunately, blue pill me had only notched one other girl besides her (when I lost my virginity) and she had a partner count of four (not including me). She told me this right from the start, and I still decided that a 2-year relationship was in order. I was a fucking idiot, I wasted 2 golden college years on a girl that was trying to lock me down as a beta and didn't respect me in the slightest. I wasted valuable time and energy on her, when I should have been racking up my own partner count and forming lasting male friendships.

But now, shit is better. Notch count is up, new LTR is of significantly higher quality. I guess we can all improve with the help of the pill.

[–]BlueFreedom420 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hopefully your story reaches many.

[–]chrisindub 1 point2 points  (1 child)

This is a 10/10 red pill post...

You should be very proud of your transformation.

You don't seem angry or resentful except in regards to people who lied to you which is a great way to be.

[–]spuriousacademy[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks very much, that means a lot.

[–]slay_it_forward 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Eerily similar story to one I had in my early 20s right down to the exact same N count.

It's liberating knowing the scoop. Never to be manipulated again.

[–]asrp2016 1 point2 points  (0 children)

it doesn't matter how n-counts your ltr is you should always AWALT.My ltr me being her first everything she let other guys touch her.She could just punch them and get fuck off from them but nooo she just stood there and said weakly to stop .. so much of her resistance.I can't wait to see her hamstering today.

Bitches ain't loyal and you can be the best guy ever she would piss on all that.

[–]LazyMagus 1 point2 points  (0 children)

What a beautiful post! This is bound to be one of those TRP classics. And you wrote it well.

Your story after taking the pill is how TRP suggests things should go—LTR only after gaining a lot of experience under our belt, as a man.

You mentioned alpha widow, but I think you were just dealing with a slut. Can't an alpha widow be created even with a low partner count? Maybe she only had two men in her past, and one turned her into an alpha widow.

[–]ExMachina12 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I was just about to post something similar then I saw this and just wanted to say well done man. I have just got out for a one year relationship that was heading the way yours did. Luckily I hadn't moved in and, other than a holiday, there have been no strings attached to the break up. Suffered from a hard case of oneitis, picking and choosing the good points, ignoring the fact she was a total ass. It has only been a month and I'm constantly having to check myself so that I don't slip back to being blue pill but the realisation that Awalt and unicorns don't exist is ringing try in my ears.

[–]TRPShill 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is one of the best posts Ive read on here in a long time and deserves to be side barred. Thank you for taking the time to write this and congratulations on such an amazing turn around

[–]1PantsonFire1234 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Alpha widows come in allot of shapes. Getting pumped and dumped or beaten by an ex is enough to let the hamster run out of whack. These are the women who are dead inside. Broken and unable to trust or act with any human decency.

[–]muhaju 4 points5 points  (16 children)

A question from a newb:

Why is partner count such a big deal? Yes it sucks that women have it so easy compared to us. They can get laid at the drop of a hat, compared to men who must build a solid platform and generally exert alot of effort before getting laid becomes easy.

But as I have read in other areas of TRP, that is the game. That is the way it is. And if it was reversed, us men sure as hell would destroy the partner count charts. If it was reversed, I would be so much fucking higher than 14 partners...

In my head, I can only conclude that the hate towards women's partner count stems from male jealousy. And as much good things as I have learned from TRP, I feel this is a very weak standard argument/complaint on this forum.

Enlighten me please.

[–]ClericJohnPreston 21 points22 points  (1 child)

Dude, his whole post is a lesson in why. He used the term alpha widow in the title too. Somewhere in that 13 (probably higher) she had been with a super Chad (relative to herself) or several super chads. OP was obviously NOT that. And she knew it. They can see it, smell it, sense it through body language.

She shit tested him right out of the gates by making him wait but admitting that she doesn't make others wait. OP was doomed at that moment. He knows it now but didn't then.

Higher partner count means higher chance she's been lucky once or twice (or more) and been with dudes who exude natural alpha. As OP did not. As most of us don't. Simple statistics math shows this. So you risk exactly this situation exponentially as N count rises.

You can chalk all this up too "jealousy" as you say. But doesn't "jealousy" jive real well with what "logic" and "evidence" show us? Indeed it does. Because? Biology mate. Raising another mans kid or being Ina relationship where the woman wears the pants is NOT comfortable for a man. It just isn't.

[–]Joseph_the_Carpenter 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Raising another mans kid or being Ina relationship where the woman wears the pants

Getting cuckolded is a fear worse than death to most men. Uncomfortable doesn't even begin to describe it. A woman wearing the pants can br a purgatory until the man pulls his head out of hid ass and sacks up, but getting cucked is hell you can't escape from.

[–][deleted] 19 points20 points  (5 children)

Notice OP didn't understand low N count until he had a woman with low N count.

Every time a woman has sex with a new man she loses her ability to pair bond more and more. That's the big and small of it. I don't know the science (psych, bio, evol) behind it, but I understand the general idea. There was a "what is a slut" post a while ago and it said two things:

  1. A woman who cannot commit
  2. A woman with no homemaking skills

Number 1 is caused by sleeping around. Lol

[–]Luis_McLovin 1 point2 points  (4 children)

Hello I'm really interested in your comment, I've quoted it in the past that women lose ability to pair bond after several partners however raging BP have asked for evidence and I don't have evidence. Is there actually any science behind such a statement? I must know. I need to. I need to bed Red, badly.

[–]Purecorrupt 6 points7 points  (1 child)

There's been research done showing that an orgasm shows the same level of dopamine in the brain as taking heroine.

Hypothesis - If you elicit these good feelings to a girl you can become her good feelings of "addiction". The more sources she receives this high from the less dependent she is on the source; therefore, as her <N> increases your <Value> decreases.

[–]Luis_McLovin 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The hypothesis is that you want her to be addicted to you, I kind of get it, but if shes already "been addicted" to several men she is more likely to "build a tolerance" to you and seek a new addiction... Whereas if a woman was not aware how easy it is for her to get a new addiction, through inexperience and/or shy ness at a young age she is likely to get addicted to the man such that she is dependant on him for pleasure, aka "fall in love" with the man. Therefore as a man I must resist love such that the woman loves first... and thats harder the older she is as shes loved before and/or fucked before. First love and first fuck are strongest, therefore man seeks younger woman who is more emotionally dependant and financially dependant.

[–]Purecorrupt 16 points17 points  (0 children)

If your N count is low and hers is high it will:

1) Breed resentment. OP was very resentful for the fact that he only had 3 partners and she had much more.

2) 2nd place. She will have more baselines/experiences to compare you to. We all have egos. No one wants to be second place.

3) Alpha Widow problems. Similar to #2 she may never feel the same way about you. You won't be her Leo DiCaprio.

4) Higher risk STDs (including baby rabies)

5) Cheating risk? More promiscuous = more spontaneous = higher chance of cheating / leaving your ass / seeking upgrade. If sex is easy to come by that can be taken out of the equation. She can upgrade to another alpha or a more succesful beta.

6) Power - "Abundance mentality". She knows she can get more dick. You will bend to her rules since you want her pussy only because it's a scarce resource for you outside of the relationship.

If you aren't resentful... If you think you are her best and she has no hang-ups on exes... If she has no diseases. If she's never cheated... If you aren't afraid to walk away and get more/different girls... Then maybe a girl with N=13 in this case is fine. Otherwise don't bank on long-term.

Those are 6 reasons that I can think of that aren't necessarily hate.

[–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (0 children)

I have never met a woman with high partner count that makes a good, dedicated, loyal, and non-drama oriented long term partner.

They're always causing drama, they're always "chatting" with other guys but it doesn't mean anything.

10 or 15 years ago I would have called myself a sexist for saying this. But it's what my experiences have shown me.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Then there is the reverse causality argument: that being crazy tends to lead to slutty.

In all my days, I've yet to meet a girl that is stable that is clearly in "slut zone". I'm not talking border cases (i.e. "is a n count of 10 a lot at 24?"), I'm talking about girls that are fuck toys for many men, probably don't even know their notch count.

I've met plenty, and all were nuts and totally unsuitable for a relationship of quality. And if you know a bit about them, they were always weird or an outcast or were abused or no one liked them because they ate boogers and pulled out their hair in junior high.

So, I don't care if the sex causes the crazy or the crazy causes the ton of sex: the two things go together like guns and bullets.

[–]darkstout 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Why do women lie about their partner count so often? Their count is a big deal to them.

Many women do not want to be seen as a "slut," especially by potential boyfriends. Women have dual sexual strategies: alpha fucks, beta bucks. They'll be a slut for the alpha and then act more reserved for betas. This is a deception women will not admit to. There are millions of men raising other men's children, thinking they are their own, that demonstrate this. Perhaps it is about "jealously," but more about being jealous of another man impregnating your mate, and her wanting his genes instead of yours.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Part of it probably comes from male jealousy, particularly betas and former betas who have low notch counts.

But far more importantly, there is serious cause for concern in LTRing a woman with a high n-count. There is almost a guarantee that she will be an alpha widow*. If a girl has been with 30-40 guys... I'm willing to bet she's been with at least 5 total studs and another 10 semi studs. You won't even rank on her "must fuck" meter. If you can't even crack the top 5 in best lays, how do you expect to keep the girl loyal and interested in you? If the girl has a low count and you have any sexual competence at all, you will be this girl's alpha and she will be dedicated to you. If you don't satisfy your girl she will not remain faithful nor will she respect you. Even if you do satisfy her, if it is only satisfactory, and she's been with 50 other dudes including Johnny 12Inch, she won't remain faithful nor respect you. Even if the girl isn't a complete bitch. She may be a very nice girl, but if you don't measure up in her mind, she just won't stay interested.

*Alpha Widow - Woman who can no longer enjoy sex/pair bond due to having experienced sex with an Alpha Chad at some point in her past and no new guy can ever live up to that memory of Chad.

[–]DoNotEatTheTail 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Others have already given good answers, but this is relevant as well (posted elsewhere in the thread): https://i.imgur.com/rrLe319.jpg

[–]grapplersdelight 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahabawaaaaaaaaahahaha 13!?! 13!?!!???? Fucking 13!?!!!!!!! You found the virgin Mary bro!!! Do you gotta have a lot of bitch in you to be a red piller? Most women have had sex with probably 20 + guys and if not they are probably boring AF. The girl was a fucking piece of shit for being an emotionally manipulative cunt but you sound almost as cunty bitching about her fucking 13 guys!!!! Lmao 13!!?

[–]LittleRedBirdie 3 points4 points  (0 children)

It may not be a lot, but she claimed 3 at first.
Not to mention she probably lied about the 13 as well.

[–]Boovs4life 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Did the alpha widow ever message you again? Did she see your new Chad characteristics?

[–]Pragmaticpandas 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What are some specific things you did to help you make the transition from BP to RP? Any advice for a 20 year old college student looking to become more of a "player"? Thanks for the post, awesome to hear about this kind of transformation.

[–]sorceryofthetesticle 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Damn bro. Virtually the same story for me. Lessons 1-4 really are crucial. Thanks for sharing your insights.

[–]spuriousacademy[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You're welcome sir, thanks for your kind words.

[–]evilman1 0 points1 point  (1 child)

At this point I didn't know what TRP was, but subconsciously I knew >what had to be done. I read a shitload on human psychology, PUA, >The Game, and hit the gym. I used every PUA tactic I could (I >basically used The Game as a guidebook)

Sooo what exactly were you reading? :) Especially the part about the Game interests me

[–]spuriousacademy[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I read The Game, which I know is pure PUA rather than TRP. BUT, it gave me the confidence to approach women, and banished the fear of rejection. Take it with a pinch of salt though.

[–]Endorsed Contributorex_addict_bro 0 points1 point  (1 child)

OK. I want to hear your & other guys opinion on that.

Suppose she suddenly mentions her ex, not exactly out-of-the-blue, suppose some thing outside reminded her about something.

My question, how do you think: shit test or genuine alpha widow?

Any chances of differentiation?

The deal is, I was always IDGAF in the past, but recently I started to think, maybe I should treat this as a red flag or something like that.

[–]askmrcia 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Its a huge red flag. And I had experienced with this on multiple occasions. Her bringing up her ex out of no where means she's either texting, him, still fucking him or bored of you and comparing you to him.

You maybe thinking that its no big deal, but it is. And I'm telling you I have plenty of stories like this. If you want to hear examples I can give you them for days. Girl's will even lie and say their exes are stalking them. Truth is, they are not stalking. They are talking and seeing eachother.

I had girls tell me that their exes won't stop calling or texting them. Know why they use the stalking excuse? Because once you catch them or look into their phones, she already has a defense that she's being stalked.

I always tell them why can't you get the number blocked? They respond because they use a different phone. That's bullshit. This happened to me more than 5 times because it wasn't too hard to hack their phones or facebook profile accounts to see what was going on. Hell, I could get a mutual friend of their ex and tell me what was going on.

Its so bad out here, that I really gave up hope LTR girls.

You saying you don't give a fuck about the past is like saying a job doesn't care about your work history or a bank doesn't care about your credit history before they offer you a loan. The past MATTERS.

[–]merkmerk73 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Only thing I have to add to this is make sure you're not just porn (ie. dopamine) addicted before you assume it's anxiety ED

It's usually porn.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What was the tipping point for you when getting educated on trp and reading up? I read tons but I can't get to the point where I actually take action. I don't know what prevents me. And it pisses me off.

[–]trp_angry_dwarf 0 points1 point  (0 children)

She reveals her flings all across the world from when she was 'travelling'. She dismisses my concerns as 'Oh he was only a fling when I was travelling.'

They don't usually get included in the number.

[–]Luckyluke23 0 points1 point  (0 children)

how many notches did I have in my bedpost? Two. My lack of sexual prowess made me feel worthless and ashamed.

this is how I feel right now AND I'm 26.

how did you get over this? ( I'm assuming you did?)

Yet there was a nagging inside me. 'How many people have you slept with?', she asked me one night after sex. 'You're number three', I replied sheepishly. 'Same here!' she exclaimed.

does anyone else feel like " her count is just a number" I mean, if she is a cool girl and I like her, I'm gunn fuck her right now regardless of her number ( I will never know her TRUE number) so why let something like that bother you?

I know:

A) I'll never know her true number B) she is fucking me right now, but that can change at any more. c) It's just my time with her now. it can change. d) I'm talking about plates only here not ltrs.

It was about confidence. In the beginning it was an act, but then it became ME.

this is the ultmate goal i am trying to achive.

great post man, I really enjoyed it. it's good to see someone who has come " full circle"

[–]LukesLikeIt 0 points1 point  (1 child)

She probably got even more defensive because it was way more than 13. In this day and age that's really more or less average unfortunately. I would guess it's closer to 50.

[–]spuriousacademy[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You're most probably correct.

[–]SuccessIsMade 0 points1 point  (0 children)

All this sounds great except for the LTR with a 20-year-old with you being 26.

A 20-year-old woman hasn't exposed to bar/club/fine dining life yet. Every friend of mine that was 21+ with an under-21 LTR broke up within 6 months of the girl turning 21. It takes girls 3-5 years to get used to this in my experience.

One Alpha fact of life: there will always be a bigger, better Alpha. 21-year-old women figure this fact out very quick.

[–]RPmatrix 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I have a 20 y/o HB9 with an N-Count of 1.

I wouldn't be so sure of that!

Seriously, why do you believe her?

Do you think she's "different"? FFS bro if she's a natty HB9 she's been fending off Chads since she was a tween!

From what I've seen, a HB6 and up can fuck 14 (or more) guys in a week!

As for the other chick only having 14 sounds ridiculous to me ... I sincerely doubt it's less than 20!

The current "average" N count for a 21yo (western) female is around 20. Sheesh many guys of the same age are at 50+! The girls know this and want eequalitee! FUCK yeah biatch!

WGAF anyway, it's not like you're looking for a wife

Not trying to be a cunt, just being realistic

btw, one more thing, whilst I laughed at the Aston Martin (you can't find the keys to hehe) be very careful playing games like this, you could end up regretting it If get caught out lying, for most women HATE finding they've been deceived by a guy

Especially If it's for sex ... It's this type of behavior that can make a girl 'cry (bullshit) Rape?"

After all, you lied first so "it's justifiable" ... Fuck logic, we're talking feelz here!

[–]spuriousacademy[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Wow guys, I'm overwhelmed with the response this has gotten. I go away for 24 hours after posting, and there are 222 comments. I'm thrilled that my post has stirred debate, and in some cases helped people.

Having read the comments, a few things I want to address:

  • New gf does have a very low N-Count, maybe not 1 as she says (because AWALT I know) but certainly no more than 3. I've been with enough women now to be able to read them a lot better.

  • I also made a point to highlight my own risk of Oneitis and snowflake worship, so don't think that I haven't learned my own lessons!

  • some of you saying 'only 13!'. This is subjective I suppose, but where I'm from and the girls I mix with, 13 for a 22 y/o is very high.

  • Yes we all know it was likely many more than 13, but I didn't have to spell that out in the story for you.

  • Where is the Alpha Widow now? She's moved in with a medical surgeon who is twice her age... Need I say more?

Once again, thank you all for your kind comments on my thread.

[–]bigdickbanditss 0 points1 point  (0 children)

How do you get over the fact that your unicorn let a guy that wasn't you inside her. This is a serious question. I'm definitely still a beta but I can almost squat 2 plates and I'm almost ready to leave monk mode. Does the fact that you just had so many sexual experiences protect you from any anxiety stemming from the fact that she isn't a virgin? This is something I struggle with. Actually, it's one of the reasons I avoid girls. Sluts make me physically sick. I want to learn and get over this.

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