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Red Pill Example[X-post] "My BF fullfills all the qualities the female narrative tells me are important but I still prefer a 'manly man'" (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by taracus

Link to OP: https://archive.is/GuCmd

Summary: First sentence of post:

My boyfriend is the most accepting, loving, kind person I've met.

Last sentence (exluding tl;dr):

He has no friends, his life revolves around me, his whole family lives in another state, we've planned our whole future together including children, a homestead... I just don't know what to do.

Body: I know I post a lot of these hamster cross-posts, but I find this one especially interesting because she herself cant understand why she's not attracted to someone who holds all the qualities she's been told are important in a partner.

He's gentle, affectionate (more than me) and always been there for me, helping me through so much. But, I keep desiring to be with other men, and picturing what my life would be like with others.

So why isnt she getting the tingles, he's obviously Cosmos Mr Right?

Top comment then tries to show her how "wrong" she is for not being attracted to him by changing out 'manly' with 'big tits'. Somehow she (and an hypothetical man who prefers women with big tits) are wrong for having a sexual preference. Obviously if men have a physical preference, feminist would have to take care of their appearance to attract men (and support the patriarchy we call "the dating scene").

Lessons learnt:

  • Most women buy into the idea that men should posses "Cosmo-qualities" but they still just cant understand why physical attraction doesnt happen

  • Beta-qualities wont increase her physical attraction no matter what her girlfriends tell her.

  • Women "want a bigger, more aggressive, independent, ambitious man." (c) OP

EDIT: A very good explanation of the core of the problem by /u/AtlRP

One poster gets close:

It sounds to me like the issue could be more than maybe that he isn't 'manly', it's that he has nothing in his life outside of you. That kind of dependency isn't attractive at all. I get the feeling it has a lot to do with wanting him to show initiative/take the lead in areas of his own life and your relationship.

But then drops the ball:

Encourage him to seek out his own hobbies, make his own friends. You clearly care about him. Just tell him honestly that it isn't attractive for him to have no other interests outside of your relationship. You need a partner, not somebody with no life of their own.

Telling him would defeat the point. Women want a man who "just gets it."


[–]HS-Thompson 117 points118 points  (10 children)

This woman is just another casualty of blue pill thinking.

She's the exact parallel of the guy, both of them have been told that this kind of relationship is the ideal, and it's not working. We have all been fed a line of bullshit and swallowed it.

When the inevitable breakup comes, she'll be the bad guy, because she'll leave him "for no reason" of course. Except they are both just victims of a new set of culture norms that don't work for relationships. She doesn't understand why she has to leave, and he won't understand why his behavior was repellent.

Because nobody told them how the world really works.

Least of all their parents, who along with their extended families and peer group should have been able to instill some more realistic values.

But they didn't.

Which, of course, is why we are all here.

[–]bittr_n_swt 21 points22 points  (1 child)

TRP benefits everyone really, both parties will be much happier

[–]allnamesfckintaken 8 points9 points  (2 children)

not exactly, he was there to help her through hard times. she wants an alpha male but that alpha male has many more choices so why would he bother with a woman who had so much baggage? so it's not like she had a choice. now that she's done with her problems, she doesn't need her beta supporter anymore and that's why she's feeling this way.

i mean wtf kind of post is that anyway? it's basically asking strangers for permission to break up with her bf who helped her through hard times. i have no doubt that relationship will end soon. people always follow their desires in the end. she's so young, it's not like shes 35 and it's settling time. she has at least 6 more years of cc riding to go. she's not gonna settle on this beta now.

it's sad but it's just the fact of life.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Women are women; don't expect anything in return, your help is worth nothing.

Only and alpha's involvement matters.

Now if an alpha turns out supportive, he loses his worth. awalt

[–]Endorsed ContributorRunawayGrain 13 points14 points  (3 children)

When the inevitable breakup comes, she'll be the bad guy, because she'll leave him "for no reason" of course.

Except that she will then concoct some bullshit to cover herself about why she ditched the "perfect guy."

[–]SwissPablo 22 points23 points  (1 child)

"Loyal, attentive, loving, always there" become "cloying, clingy, posesive and abusive" in a heartbeat after a breakup.

[–]Uptonogood 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Watch as suddenly from nowhere she starts saying he's always been "abusive".

[–][deleted] 261 points262 points  (146 children)

I love these crossposts. It's hugely educational when viewed under the lens.

I want a bigger, more aggressive, independent, ambitious man.

Yep.

But they think TRP is full of shit.

[–]TRP VanguardHumanSockPuppet 69 points70 points  (2 children)

Then, you wait for the follow up post.

Fastforward 6-8 weeks. She has dumped Beta boyfriend, and the Chad she found a couple of days after the break-up has been ploughing her since. But she's feeling the urge to pair up, and Chad refuses to give her the commitment that her instincts desire.

"Why oh why can't men just be everything I want, precisely when I need it?"

You are watching a game of Pong, and this girl is the ball bouncing between paddles.

Right up until one paddle refuses to catch her, and she hits The Wall.

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Beta boyfriend who helped her so much is now litteraly erased from her memory.

He could die she would'nt care

[–]1rporion 93 points94 points  (133 children)

They don´t think all of it is shit, they well usually admit that, yeah, they have a few good points, but how they see women, omg !!!

What they don´t want to admit is that if those points are valid it necessarily follows that in some areas women are not the equals of men, let alone their superiors as they would like to believe.

[–][deleted] 83 points84 points  (4 children)

what TRP tells us is basically that people are a lot more mechanical than anyone wants to believe.

Press this button, pull this lever, get this result.

The ultimate example of this would be say to walk into a bar and punch a guy in the face at random. He will punch you right back in the face. No thoughts required, it's really a simple function f(a) = a in this case.

All other human reactions fall in shades of gray from that basic fact. If you were born winning the genetic lottery then you walk around just pressing everyone's buttons and getting everyone's reactions by your simple presence.

People do not want to think that they are so manipulated by the mechanism that is their body. They want to think that they are deciding, they are in control.

TRP truth admits that this is a mechanism and to some extent can be gamed. At the very least, TRP tells you: do not press the buttons of the mechanism that result in GAME OVER scrolling up. It tells you that yes, this sequence is a losing sequence.

TRP applies not only to male / female relationships but in a greater extent can apply to your business relationships, the way you influence people on your team and so forth.

These women who post this stuff, they are playing out the story that they bought this narrative and went through the motions, but somehow it's just not clicking and they're confused. And the reason is just sitting there clear as day if you're willing to admit some uncomfortable things.

This woman in just her one sentence that I quoted above, admitted everything that needs to be admitted about all of her relationship problems. And this guy who is trying so hard to be Sir Blue Pill of the Order of the White Garter is just not doing it for her. He bought into the narrative too.

He would not be like that if he didn't buy into this narrative. She would not have been with him if she didn't as well. If everyone just dropped the pursuits of the narratives a lot of this would just automatically balance itself out. But to do that, everyone needs to admit that no, they are not in absolute control, that somehow, down deep, their body is still an animal body and a machine that is going to generate output of some sort based on the input it receives.

I think that's ultimately what people reject... you see it in the responses to this post, "Well, OP doesn't like this man but there are millions of women who would love to have him!" Well, they will all probably end up in the same place. OP in that thread, has the equivalent of owning a cat. That's "nice" but ultimately not what women are seeking out in a mate.

[–]Redsqa 17 points18 points  (2 children)

These women who post this stuff, they are playing out the story that they bought this narrative and went through the motions, but somehow it's just not clicking and they're confused. And the reason is just sitting there clear as day if you're willing to admit some uncomfortable things.

I think one of the reason is indeed, because women and bluepill men have a tendency of not admitting they're wrong, and generally wanting reality to adapt to themselves instead of adapting to reality.

To elaborate on that, the TRP lens "lever explanation" can be depressing. It's an ugly truth; if people are not THAT complicated and can be manipulated almost like manipulating a machine, then it means I'm not THAT complicated and I can be manipulated almost like a machine. This is an humbling fact that some people are not ready to accept. It's analog to the feelings people can experience when debating free-will.

[–]Jigsus 9 points10 points  (0 children)

That's exactly it. It's depressing. Like when you see someone you love react like an automaton because you pushed the wrong buttons.

It pains us beacuse we expect so much more. And men really do want to love but how can you love in an almost deterministic world?

[–]FiveLions 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Which = "I'm not important". Now just imagine a woman admitting that she's not the reason the world was created.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Don't forget that she was in need of a helping hand.

She just used the guy and now has remorse to dump him because for all the reasons you mentioned.

OP has been stupid and she is just another bitch.

Now she'll probably try to come back to him in 6 years of CC as he has proven to be a nice and stupdi BB provider. Unfortunately for her and women out there, he will have evolved and found TRP.

You don't mind rape a man twice like that. I guess he busted his ass off for her

[–]Down_But_Not_Deleted 103 points104 points  (122 children)

Lurker here, you guys do have really, really good points.

But every once in a while I see people say things like "women are an inferior, trash gender" and "women have no place in grad school". What I've been wanting to ask for a while is are these more radical users, or is this an accepted sentiment here? I feel like I should know before I go any further.

Because to be honest I don't see how noticing men/women have different mating techniques automatically leads to men being superior and women being garbage.

Edit: Are comments like this one even allowed here? I've resorted to just PM'ing members before so they can explain there view points to me, but it'd be much easier for me to just seek clarification in the subreddit.

Edit2: So this is currently being upvoted, let me ruin that by going further with my questions. By far the biggest hurdle for me while trying to learn about RP is how I don't know if you guys overstate how emotional women are.

Don't get me wrong, yes I agree that women are more emotional than men, but I think it's often overlooked by users here that men also can be emotional, and women can also be logical. This is best shown by a thread I ran into the other day about how there shouldn't be a female president, which in turn reminded me of comments saying that women shouldn't be able to vote because they'd just go for the strong male/they're too emotional.

What throws me off course here is that men also vote for strong male leaders, and men in positions of power also make emotional decisions too sometimes. I think we all agree with women being able to use logic, it's just that we don't see eye to eye on just how much logic they could use.

Lastly I recently solved the whole AWALT thing, where I read that it's just a cautionary thing because obviously there exist exceptions to every rule, which I think you guys call unicorns(still learning terminology). Similarly to how I don't know if the amount of logic women use is being understated, I also don't know if the amount of unicorns that exist is being understated. I can only go off of the anecdotal evidence you guys give me, and looking at evolution can only take you so far. Even Darwin wasn't able to gleam off all the truths by thinking about humans from an evolutionary standpoint.

So I guess to summarize, I think I've been swayed by TRP, but I think there's more grounds for discussion than a lot of people here let on. Is the ink already dry and this whole school of thought set in stone?

Going to bold this last part because this is the most important to me, If this comment isn't acceptable and is to be deleted, please mods let me know if there's somewhere I can discuss TRP with people who really understand it. There are a lot of interesting things going on here but my ultimate belief is that there's room for argument.

Edit 3: This is fantastic discussion. In order to keep up the quality I'm taking time to write out replies to everyone who replied to, or PM'd, me. A lot of you have put up some excellent points, I will take longer in responding to those. I'm just putting this disclaimer up so you don't think I've abandoned the discussion. I'm probably going to have to continue this through tomorrow.

[–]tuzki 65 points66 points  (27 children)

Anger phase.

Ultimately women are found everywhere, angry men haven't transcended their awakening so they are very reactionary.

[–]pmmedenver 43 points44 points  (5 children)

To elaborate, a big reason this anger phase happens is because men have been fed this "disney" narrative that women want a "soft" and "emotionally in-touch" man. Men believed it and took the advice. They then later found out the cold hard truth by finding out how the real world works and spending a lot of years single and depressed watching girls bang EXACTLY the kinds of guys they adamantly say they hate. It makes us angry, we feel lied to and cheated. But its just a phase because eventually we find out that you're not intentionally misleading us, its simply that you're just as confused as we are.

[–]whatyearisthisagain 36 points37 points  (4 children)

For me the anger phase was not so much about having been lied to about what women want, but much more what women are.

If you are told from day one that most women are precious little angelic creatures that can do no wrong, has next to no sexual desire, require an emotional connection to feel attraction, values personality over status, yada yada yada - you get pissed off when then after decades you start to see a huge disconnect from what you've been told, to what you experience and see.

I used to think the vast majority of women didn't engage in casual sex and hookups, but then it hit me like a brick that it wasn't that they weren't fucking like rapid dogs in heat, it simply was that they weren't fucking me, because I wasn't fuckable to them.

That's when the real anger phase starts, because you feel deceived and cheated. Do A, B, and C, and you will get P, they said.

After having done nothing but A, B and C for years, you start to realize that Chad isn't doing A, B and C at all, he is doing E, F, G which you were told to avoid, and he is swimming in P.

For me that's when the contempt for women started for me, because 100% of women portray themselves to you as innocent saints that would make grandma proud, but it becomes a condescending lie. It's like the used car salesman that tries to convince you a piece of shit '95 Chevy is mint condition and the engine is like new.

You get offended when people talk down to you. When they think you can't see through their bullshit - even more so when you know you didn't see through it for years, because an entire culture and society kept feeding you the same lies to keep you in check like a good little beta boy.

[–]ShounenEgo 5 points6 points  (1 child)

I used to think the vast majority of women didn't engage in casual sex and hookups, but then it hit me like a brick that it wasn't that they weren't fucking like rapid dogs in heat, it simply was that they weren't fucking me, because I wasn't fuckable to them.

I used to think that men get hornier than women, and women can just "control it" and that it's "not as much as men do", so I had the impression they're not as interested in having sex as men.

[–]FiveLions 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Pshh..total bullshit...and I know you know it. I'm just adding to your thoughts.

The difference is that women get laid whenever they want hb6 plus...and they think we do too through solopsism.

I think women are hornier than men. In theory, obviously, but men is all they talk about. You take away a woman's vagina? What do you have in power or strength . Women are the embodiment of sex, and the only women I trust are postmenopausal.

I'd much rather go to battle with you, someone I barely know than my own 34 year old sister

[–]elksteaks69 2 points3 points  (0 children)

If I had a nickle for everytime I've heard the line "I don't normally do that" after a one night stand. Yup KK sure ya don't sweet'art

[–]Razgriz16 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I saved your comment, it sums up my experience and my anger phase exactly.

[–]Down_But_Not_Deleted 15 points16 points  (19 children)

This makes sense. How many people here would you say are in the anger phase? I'd have to take that into account while lurking. The harder thing would be spotting what posts/ideas are being covertly fueled by the anger phase.

Although you guys are probably pretty adept at spotting things like that by now.

[–]tuzki 17 points18 points  (0 children)

Lots. Especially those that just figured out that reality isn't what they were led to believe.

Amused mastery can eventually displace anger, but it takes time and experience.

[–]ShounenEgo 8 points9 points  (1 child)

A shit ton. Not joking. The majority of us responding to you either have been through that or still are.

But just a heads up: Don't that let you believe that everything that looks "kinda weird" from your point of view is necessarily a product of the anger phase.

I've been through that pedant phase of saying "but there are women who do body building therefore women can be physically stronger than men", "women can also be rational", "men can also be emotional" etc. But you gotta read them in the context of the forum.

If you had vitamin deficiency, you wouldn't want to inject the healthy amount of vitamin that you miss. You'd want more than the average dosage for the first period. Same as TRP: Men who grew tame, whiny, bitchy, skinny or fat, who throw tantrums as if they are in their period. They don't want just a dose of masculinity, they want a shocking dose, to get their shit straight. That's why we say "if you're a bottom loser, first go fucking lift, go read books, grab a job or a profession that's profitable that you like and put yourself first. And when bitches start popping in your life, here's how to handle them".

Pragmatic approach, if you ask me. After all, TRP is like a salad bar.

[–]Down_But_Not_Deleted 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, I've been trying to get better at reading things in the context of the forum. At the same time I've been trying to be as objective as possible, in that I have to approach everything I come across here in multiple directions.

As to the salad bar approach, another user here has given me the same helpful advice. While I will keep that in mind, for the purposes of understanding the theory as a whole, I'm attempting to painstakingly cover as much ground as possible.

[–]2Overkillengine 5 points6 points  (0 children)

If it's got enough salt you can taste it, it's probably anger phase.

The primary issue with the catharsis of letting it out is the stumblefucks that get addicted to it, and start treating it like a final stop instead of a way-point in the path.

[–]OriginUnknown 5 points5 points [recovered]

Tons of posts and activity in TRP = anger phase

[–]TheSKSpecial 11 points12 points  (10 children)

Very true. Guys first get here and they're pissed. Lotta angry, reactionary posting early on. Then as they start to learn, get accustomed, and improve themselves, they'll taper off posting in here because, well, they're actually out living their lives and doing the shit they're talking about.

Hard to continuously be mad at the nature of women if you're out there taking advantage of it.

[–]Endorsed Contributoralways-be-closing 21 points22 points  (3 children)

Hard to continuously be mad at the nature of women if you're out there taking advantage of it.

It's not even taking advantage of it - - it's accepting it and doing right by it.

Women want men, just as men want women.

To deprive each of the other is to deprive them of their own humanity and alienate them; men need to be masculine because their masculinity evokes femininity in women who need to be feminine.

For a male, being human is being masculine. For a female, being human is being feminine.

[–]cuteman 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Ying and yang. Two sides of the same coin. There are no women without men and vice versa. Pretending otherwise is misunderstanding the human condition and society itself.

[–]p_a_schal 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Not being an asshole, just informing you: there's no "g" in "Yin"

[–]tb87670 9 points10 points  (5 children)

No, I've been in and out of anger phase non-stop no matter how long I've been dosing up on the red pill. It only means you are still sane, the way women treat men in general and how society lets it happen is bullshit. Don't accept it. Always be angry. Just keep the anger in control, use it as fuel to focus on yourself and improve in ways talked about here in TRP. Don't listen to the guys bragging about having serenity and not being angry anymore, they basically got whipped with a switch so many times they went numb to the pain and just roll over and keep taking it. That is not healthy in my opinion. It's proper to be angry when wronged, hence why I think that my perpetual anger-phases are not a bad thing in a TRP lens.

[–]War2kali 4 points5 points  (3 children)

Living angry long term is a physically and emotionally damaging way to live. You don't have to be angry to be focused or stand up for yourself.

[–][deleted] 3 points3 points

[permanently deleted]

[–]pmmedenver 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Meditation teaches that your pain and suffering comes from false expectations. Release your expectations of what you "deserve" from life and align your expectations with reality.

[–]JustDoMeee 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Always look at the amount of down vote or up vote it has as well as rational comments from other users.

[–]Down_But_Not_Deleted 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Noted, I've learned more of the anger phase since my first post.

[–]Chris_Phoenix 44 points45 points  (34 children)

There's a lot of anger phase misogyny here. I went through it myself. When you kill the disney-land fantasy that a woman can love you unconditionally, it can fuck up your world. Couple this with the unpleasant fact that being a narcissistic misogynist will absolutely get you laid, (much, much more than being a sad sack beta trying to bed girls by being "nice") and you can pretty well imagine why it ends up being the default response for pretty much all of us.

That being said, as someone who feels like he's pretty well at the end of the anger phase and settled into an LTR, I feel that "complimentarian" best describes how most of us feel at the end of the day. Men are suited better to some things, women are suited better to others. We aren't evolutionary independent agents, we exist as complementary opposites

Also real quick: AWALT isn't exactly just a cautionary thing. It's a reminder that all girls have the same biological wiring in regards to their sexuality. Even with the best girls, we have to remind ourselves that they are still girls. If we start to slack or show weakness they'll lose interest and their bodies will push them to stray, no matter how much they love us. It would be the same if you were dating a girl who came home noticeably heavier. You would still love her, but you wouldn't be with a person you were attracted to as much and if things stayed like that for a long time, it could destroy your relationship. If you want me to elaborate on the AWALT thing I can. This idea that "AWALT is just cautionary!" is new here at TRP. I feel that a lot of our members are using this definition of AWALT to hold on to their belief that there may be a girl out there that can love them unconditionally without them having to go through all this trial and tribulation

[–]1Dis_mah_mobile_one 12 points13 points  (7 children)

That's an excellent, excellent summation.

I wholeheartedly agree that men and women are complementarian. The reason TRP exists is because our current (post)modern society has thrown intersexual relations so far out of balance.

[–]Chris_Phoenix 6 points7 points  (6 children)

Much appreciated. I'm a long time lurker but I'm planning on trying to contribute a bit more to the community. I see some things of late that I think may be dangerous. Both in cases of us being too extreme and not extreme enough in certain degrees. When I was dragged into hell, TRP was the medicine I needed to pull myself out of it, and all of it's members were the older brothers I never had. I want this place to continue being that for as many men as it can

[–]1Dis_mah_mobile_one 6 points7 points  (5 children)

False rape accusation brought me here. I can commiserate. What sort of things do you think are too extreme, and which things aren't extreme enough? I've had similar thoughts I'm just curious about your take.

[–]Chris_Phoenix 3 points4 points  (4 children)

Sorry to hear that man, I can only imagine what kind of tribulation that is to go through. Hopefully all is well now

Well, we're growing quickly. Incredibly quickly. When I started lurking 2 years ago we were at 20k and we've shot up to over 10 times that number. This is a double edged sword. I'm glad we can help so many more men, but with the influx of newer people outnumbering the truly dyed in the wool redpillers, ideas and concepts can get skewed very easily. I mentioned in another comment that I was a bit put off by the new definition of AWALT floating around. Used as "the gun may not be loaded but always treat it like it is". The new guys like this metaphor because not only is it masculine, but it subtly implies that there are women out there that do not follow the laws of hypergamy, that can truly give you your bluepill fantasy love. This is dangerous thinking, and if it's not properly addressed we'll see many new members getting into relationships and causing themselves unnecessary emotional harm. It's easy to believe that the woman you're with is the exception, much harder to accept that even the good ones are subject to the same biological principles as the rest of us

I've seen quite a bit of bluepill-isms creep into the heads of our newer members. It's hard to kill that fantasy. And it will creep back up on you and try over and over to drag you back. This is to be expected and it's our job to help newer members free themselves from this

As far as us being too extreme, I can pretty much point to people like Roosh. I have a great respect for him, but he's gone rogue, and his actions and followers are a symptom of a larger problem TRP is facing

All of this being said, the mods are doing a kickass job keeping this place running well. I doubt any other sub could multiply their members tenfold and keep the spirit of it's founders so well. But there is only so much the mods alone can do, and it will require members that have been here for awhile to be voices of reason for the newer crowd

How about you?

[–]1Dis_mah_mobile_one 3 points4 points  (1 child)

It turned out better than some of the horror stories. Cost me a lot though.

You and I are almost identical in our views. The only thing I'd add is that I think a large portion of the "tough love" posts (Take the Pain is the one I'm thinking of in particular) seem to come in part from a one-upmanship in facing adversity, the AMOG tendency, and it can really piss me off because I do have a lot of anger over what has happened in the past four or so years that I'm not sure is helped by being told to just take it.

I'm not averse to being challenged, it's necessary to develop fully. But there's only so much one can do from behind a computer screen and beyond that it can easily become a fetishization of pain as a marker of maturity.

[–]Chris_Phoenix 1 point2 points  (0 children)

a fetishization of pain as a marker of maturity.

That's a good point. I've seen a few posts like that. Though on the whole I really like TRP's disposition towards hardship, pain, and struggle. The more you love the good fight and the pain that comes with it, the farther you'll go

I'm glad you came out of your allegations alright. Have you ever done a write up of it? I'd be interested to read it

[–]masnera 2 points3 points  (1 child)

but with the influx of newer people outnumbering the truly dyed in the wool redpillers, ideas and concepts can get skewed very easily.

I'm sad at this inevitability...im sad that this is happening.

[–]Chris_Phoenix 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Nah, don't sweat it. The more that those who understand participate, the more we can keep this place running like a well oiled machine

[–]Daimonon 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Dudes don't get it (AWALT) until it happens to them. May it be AF x BB dynamics or anything that results in the end of a relationship. Then, anger phase begins and reality kicks in harcore.

Guy changes his ways, notices what's really going on.. amused mastery develops and a fool he is no more.

[–]1FunAndFreedom 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is the truth. A lot of guys who get the six pack, learn to pick up girls, and are finally able to lock down the girl they always wanted suddenly think TRP doesn't apply to them anymore.

They get a pretty rude awakening, hopefully before being dumb enough to marry.

[–]1rporion 28 points29 points  (7 children)

Let´s see if I can split that up into three parts.

  • Anger phasers, they are the loudest, because, well, anger.

  • In some ways misoginy is better than the blue pill, because the misogynist sees how women are but still judges them like he would judge men , which does not shine a very flattering light on them.

This too, is usually a phase.

  • Men good, women garbage.

I would not describe it that way.

I would say that men and women have different strenghts and weaknesses, meaning I do believe that in some aspects women are superior to men.

That being said I believe that a lot of women in Western societies actually ARE garbage which is intimately ties to them being women because these days the worst aspects of female behavior are tolerrated, if not cultivated and celebrated.

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (1 child)

"misogynist sees how women are but still judges them like he would judge men"

I've been thinking lately that much of what is termed misogyny is actually men projecting what is actually misandry onto women. That is, they hold women to the standard they are personally held to.

Then, when told they have a misogynist stance or view, it affects them psychologically. Since their view is based in their experience, and to be told their view is hate of some kind, it dawns on them slowly that they are the objects of the hate they are accused of.

[–]1james-watson 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Precisely. Females viciously, ruthlessly judge males constantly with a devilish glee. But they can't take any judgement from males.

Thus, they ask for equal treatment but can't handle all the harshness it comes with. So they end up getting very special treatment.

Related: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmP1ier3R30

[–]Down_But_Not_Deleted 3 points4 points  (4 children)

I just heavily added onto my comment. Can you please go over that with me as well? In case it gets deleted, do you know where I can discuss the inner workings of TRP with people who know there stuff, other than over PM?

Edit: Anger phase, noted.

[–]trpdgc 4 points5 points  (1 child)

I expect you to have those discussions here. This community values continuous improvement and we don't tolerate stubborn curmudgeons. If someone disagrees with you we expect it to happen with argument and not downvotes.

There are instances of mods deleting threads because people are being stupid about questions, but a sub is a sub and if you have something to discuss we do it here. Most of the time it's people asking for advice on how to land the chick that's about to friend zone them, and they're redirected to asktrp.

[–]Down_But_Not_Deleted 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If someone disagrees with you we expect it to happen with argument and not downvotes

I have found that to be the case with the very discussions I've had in this thread. This community is more engaging than places outside of it have made it out to be!

[–]1rporion 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Your second edit is basically nature vs nurture and this something which is heavily debated.

Not as such, but it is implicit in discussions of whether to look elsewhere for a wife for example.

There must be a biological component, but I don´t think TRP is going to settle a debate that is going on for centuries now.

[–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (13 children)

Asktrp is a better place for questions although TRP main's rules technically apply. That said, you'll find a variety of people here with a variety of opinions on some subjects. Plates vs. long term relationships. Culture warriors vs. libertines. Angry men vs. those that are more philosophical.

That last is where the "women being garbage" comes from. There's nothing wrong with being angry at society and/or women. I happen to disagree with women being garbage but it's easy to see how someone could hold that opinion - many women are garbage and garbage women are tolerated and extolled to a far greater degree than garbage men.

Put it another way, there's a wide variety of accepted sentiments here.

[–]Down_But_Not_Deleted 2 points3 points  (10 children)

Put it another way, there's a wide variety of accepted sentiments here.

Ah. From what I read TRP is basically seen as the truth that people aren't willing to see, but even then things seem hazy.

Has TRP been refined over the years? Do users generally hash over the main views from time to time? I'd be very interested in discussing things in this sub, but I feel like I may be too "out there" and will be seen as concern trolling.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (8 children)

Do users generally hash over the main views from time to time?

Not really. The basics are basically true. The disagreements are more in the implications and implementations.

Personal questions in asktrp are fine. There isn't really a place to talk about "is the theory correct" with red pillers. We're taking the position that it is and moving from there. There is that purplepilldebate sub, but it's open to all, including those who loathe TRP.

Honestly the best thing to do is to apply the theory to your life. Does it work? Does it explain stuff?

[–]Down_But_Not_Deleted 6 points7 points  (7 children)

The basics are basically true

The thing is, what are the basics and what are the derived principals?

It's like how physics starts with fundamental variables; mass, time, distance; but then branches into derived variables ; velocity, weight, force. It seems to me that the most basic thing here is the realization that men and women just have different mating patterns. Men want to spread their genetic material, women want to couple with the best possible genetic material. That makes sense, but the further you go from there the more inferences you have to make a long the way. It's easy in physics because the math is straightforward, but human nature is anything but straightforward.

So the big confusion is, how do you discuss applications/observances of the theory without discussion of the theory itself? I feel like they should be side by side, almost in the same place.

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (6 children)

The thing is, what are the basics and what are the derived principals?

Start over there ----> on the sidebar with introduction and theory reading.

human nature is anything but straightforward.

Yup. TRP is better than anything else I've found, but it isn't an equation or syllogism.

So the big confusion is, how do you discuss applications/observances of the theory without discussion of the theory itself?

It's implicit in the discussion.

[–]Down_But_Not_Deleted 1 point2 points  (5 children)

I've seen the side bar, the theory reading portion has especially kept me busy. The thing is that it's not basic theory, it's more along the lines of human observation paired along with interpretation through past experiences.

And don't get me wrong, I don't find fault with that. Much of human understanding comes from observation paired with experience. However:

TRP is better than anything else I've found, but it isn't an equation or syllogism.

Is one of my points. I just find it weird that for tackling the monumental, herculean, task of understanding the nature of the sexes, there isn't more leeway in discussion of the sidebar. Forgive me if that's an incorrect observation I've had.

Also:

It's implicit in the discussion.

Yes, but the discussion seems to be generally fueled by parties that already agree on the finer points, they just don't agree on the applications/observations. I've rarely seen discussion over the already accepted theories here, outside of "You've seem to have misunderstood ______".

[–]speed3_freak 4 points5 points  (1 child)

RP in a nutshell:

Men and women are different. Women aren't attracted to guys who put them on a pedestal and treat them like princesses which is contradictory to what most older women have taught you your entire life. Women want men who are complete without them, confident, and have high SMV. Here is what you need to do to get there. If this doesn't fix you, you're doing it wrong. If this did fix you, then congrats, you're now the prize, make women earn your love.

The rest is just the details.

This is the basic overlaying theory of TRP. You can dig deeper and have tons of different conversations about the exact differences and how to become 'complete without them'. Also, this sub is more about fixing people who are lost rather than helping people who are naturally gifted with women, so some of the rules (like not texting except for logistics) aren't necessarily useful after you're in control of your frame. TRP should be a buffet. All of this stuff is here, try it and see if it works for you. Most of the time when people start trying it they get pissed, because they thing the world shouldn't be that way. They get mad because women aren't who they were raised to believe they were, and a lot of people focus way too much on the negative aspects that women bring to the table instead of the fantastic things they can give you. Love women for who they are, don't hate them because they aren't who you wished they were. Women can be awesome.

[–]3savoryprunes 0 points1 point  (2 children)

I just find it weird that for tackling the monumental, herculean, task of understanding the nature of the sexes, there isn't more leeway in discussion of the sidebar.

You'll get a LOT of pushback for anything that challenges concepts included in the sidebar. If it's in the sidebar, it's because we've all experienced it enough to make the conclusion that it is sound theory. That shared experience goes back many years and includes many, many men. How many times must we drop an object to confirm that gravity is sound theory? If you want to test our foundational theories, definitely take it over to AskTRP.

Yes, but the discussion seems to be generally fueled by parties that already agree on the finer points, they just don't agree on the applications/observations. I've rarely seen discussion over the already accepted theories here, outside of "You've seem to have misunderstood ______".

Few of us are as intelligent and critically thinking as you obviously are. The more "average" intellects among us are going to tend to latch on the easy-to-understand theories and just go with it. Most will resist if you give them pause to think deeper and some will become defensive, maybe even belligerent.

If a badged member tells you "you seem to have misunderstood ___," you'll probably want to pay closer attention. That will probably be obvious though because the response itself will probably include more thoughtful discussion.

[–]Cashews4U 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Has TRP been refined over the years? Do users generally hash over the main views from time to time? I'd be very interested in discussing things in this sub

Looks like you're doing a good job (at not concern trolling). It appears that as long as you approach as genuinely curious and inquisitive, you'll get quality discussion. My approach with TRP and MGTOW is that there are a core of beliefs, but I interpret them differently and to a limited extent than say you, or another other member of said subs. I always have internal conflict and question myself constantly, which is a good thing. I've accepted AWALT as an effective rule of thumb, along with retaining frame, prevent sex from blinding my better judgement, etc. I also try to assimilate the views here and with MGTOW. Honing my "game" is not a priority nor relevant to me. I rarely approach women, not that I haven't had success, but because I really find it disinteresting and having sex seems less fulfilling to me. I'll flirt, but I'll ask their number if they seem worthwhile. This contradicts Always B Closing strategy and PUA. But I'm not trying to be that. Now, I grew up with a family mostly of women, I have lesbian and gay relatives. I've interacted with bisexual people and pansexual people, so my empathy may be a little more than your average anger phase RPer. However, I still call a strike a strike, and a low and outside is a low and outside. I compare it with being a Christian who attends church twice a month, to a devout Bible thumper who reads it a lot, goes to every Sunday/Wednesday service, is involved with the congregation, and centers their life around Jesus. TRP/MGTOW doesn't outright define me, but I follow the lifestyle. With that being said, I find it more difficult to resist being MRA these days. I don't hate women, I don't hate feminists. But their lifestyle/ideology in my country is just too repulsive for me. I cannot jive with a movement that shames men while eliminating a women's agency. Just the same as I cannot take that gamble to marry a woman and hope she ignores how more beneficial it would be for her to take my money, my seed, and my house. And it tears at me sometimes, because I would love to have a wife and children of my own, but I know deep down it just wouldn't be worth it for the kids nor myself. Traditionalism is dead, along with the perseverance required to dig deep in a marriage.

[–]dsade 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Guess this is a good post to follow up with something that's been rolling through my head re:anger.

They way it's working in my head is as if you introduced your "friend", who happens to be a child molester and pedophile. That's just the way he's wired, and logically he knows he's hurting people but he does it anyway.

Does that warrant scorn? IMO, absolutely. To excuse women for lying, cheating, etc is to to similar to excusing the child molester, simply because that's where his almost uncontrollable urges are.

I mean, there are purportedly thousands of pedophiles in this country and you would have to think that the vast majority of them suppress their urges in the name of right and wrong.

So, yeah, I'm still in the anger phase after getting divorce fucked twice, and cheated on quite a bit. They still know it's wrong, but they do it anyway regardless of who they hurt.

So basically as a defense mechanism, I just cut off my emotions 90% and focus on work/workouts.

[–]Down_But_Not_Deleted 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Put it another way, there's a wide variety of accepted sentiments here.

I've come across that as I've dug deeper into TRP. The notion I had at the start of all of this was that everything was tied together nicely, since then I have discovered that isn't the case. Although I should have known better, most bodies of human knowledge in specific subjects have a core, and then other derivative works.

[–]unassumingusername7 10 points11 points  (2 children)

You're looking for the middle ground. Sometimes it's easier to just let the pendulum swing too far and find the middle through trial and error. It's why the anger phase isn't a bad thing here.

If you haven't listened to it, look up the Black Philip Show with Patrice O'Neal. He takes a superior, dismissive tone towards women, but it doesn't come from anger, it comes from understanding.

No matter how good she is, she needs some man to guide her. You don't. Treat a bitch like a bitch, and see how that works. Experiment.

[–]Down_But_Not_Deleted 2 points3 points  (1 child)

No matter how good she is, she needs some man to guide her. You don't. Treat a bitch like a bitch, and see how that works. Experiment.

Yes, I don't argue that it's possible to succeed in some areas by guiding a woman, but I don't know if that's more ascribed to a specific personality; and branching off from that, I also don't know how much of personality comes just from gender.

So while that approach may work, does it work on women as a whole, and how verifiable is it outside of evolutionary psychology? I can't easily experiment with billions of women out there to confirm.

I may be getting hung up on the finer points of the theory because my current life is actually great, so there are few places where I can actually implement TRP at this point of time.

[–]unassumingusername7 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Let's say for the sake of argument that taking the lead only works on 1% of women. It doesn't matter, because taking the lead is the ONLY way up live a man's life. If you have a mission and a strong frame, no other person can have an equal say in your lifestyle. You have to take complete control so that you can pursue your mission.

The admiral doesn't take a vote from his subordinates before every operation.

Women don't even know what they want to eat, so I just tell them what we're eating. Why have the conversation when I know their input will be pointless?

This particular part of personality is 99% influenced by gender. Many men are also complete followers, so seeing yourself as a leader by default has numerous benefits.

[–]truthyego 5 points6 points  (0 children)

The name calling and insults aren't really part of TRP philosophy, neither are arbitrarily imposed outside restrictions. Mature understanding of TRP does NOT consider women to be trash, or advocate their exclusion from advancement (grad school, voting, etc).

That said, we can definitely identify specific inferiorities, strength being the easy go-to example. The reality is that even the strongest women are just barely able to keep pace with active teenage boys, much less a somewhat developed man.

And given that the primary biological function of women is to bear children, their brain wiring and sexual strategies are almost as definitive as the physical strength comparison. In reality, women's sexual strategy has evolved to be more advanced and complex than men's, in order to compensate for the strength inferiority.

So when we say AWALT, we mean that pretty much every woman will have the (sexual) biological predisposition towards powerful men, and try to maximize their access to that power. It's nearly as universal as the physical strength difference because it was borne out of that difference.

Emotion is how women have evolved to perceive and determine the power level of the men around them. Certainly women can be logical in many areas of life, but sexually is bottom of that list. Sexually, the best they can do is use logic to try and maximize their emotional desires.

That's AWALT. Try as she might, no woman can deny her own hypergamy forever (seeking the most powerful man she can get for both genetic material and physical resources).

These realities shape and influence every other aspect of a woman's life. Certainly they can be logical in many areas of life. The difference is that men can [sometimes] use logic to actually change their emotional desires by altering their view of reality. Women's view of reality is through emotions, and logic tends to be secondary, to serve those emotions.

If our society acknowledged these realities, and then encouraged men to develop emotional perception and women to develop logical perception, we would have a great society.

Instead we have a society that DENIES these realities and confuses the shit out of women by convincing them they are every bit as logical and capable as a man, while simultaneously trying to repress the logical power of men by getting them to embrace emotion over logic.

That is why you see so many emotional men making stupid irrational decisons, because they aren't operating in line with their biology. And why you see women making logically flawed decisons which are really just emotional decisons touted as logical.

The anger and over the top insults towards women are reflections of these realities, from men who are still recovering from having been duped to operate emotionally, and we're harmed by the lies of society and the lies of women operating under their biological programming. It's very natural to be angry at injustice. It tends to subside as you develop your own power as a man, and realize that everyone has been a victim of this kind of social Marxism propagated by financial elites for their own profit and control of society.

[–]ModRedSovereign[M] 10 points11 points  (4 children)

Are comments like this one even allowed here?

It's borderline concern trolling, which is a bannable offence here. I'm going to leave it up because it's generated good responses.

[–]1james-watson 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Yeah, I get a very distinct feeling that this is highly targeted concern trolling.

All of his questions can be answered by reading the side bar. Anyone who starts shitting on evo psych immediately outs themselves as a blue piller, because the only "science" against evo psych is narrative based cultural marxism that can't handle the impact of the extended phenotype on human evolution.

I leave it up to you, but have a look at some of the bluepillers coming out of the wood work in this dude's defense. Definitely diluting the quality of the discussion.

To the concern troll, wanna learn about Evolutionary Psychology? Quit wasting our time and read the following:

The Descent of Man - Charles Darwin

The Blank Slate - Steven Pinker

The Extended Phenotype - Richard Dawkins

A Moral Animal - Rober Wright

The Red Queen - Matt Ridley

...and all of their references books. Then come back and ask questions.

EDIT: Mod, both your posts and mine are getting downvoted by a bp brigade. I sense some two X brigading going on.

[–]Down_But_Not_Deleted 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Thank you! I've read up on concern trolling, and do realize that even if it's with honest intentions that it isn't allowed. I took a chance in hopes of having a good discussion.

Do you know where I might go to in the future if I want further discussions like this one? After looking at purplepilldebate, I've decided that it isn't quite what I'm looking for.

Edit: Going over the replies I've gotten, I see I've missed a suggestion to askTRP. Interesting how I've overlooked that before.

[–]ModRedSovereign 5 points6 points  (0 children)

You're free to ask questions in /r/AskTRP, but understand that there's an expectation that you've thoroughly read the sidebar there as well. Personal responsibility is a big thing here.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

With the hardcore woman hating stuff you are seeing anger phase.

It's just kind of the natural reaction to realizing you have been lied to your entire life and or wasted time you won't get back.

It's the natural beginning (after denial) of the grieving process that ends with acceptance.

In this case they are grieving their fantasy world where women are kind creatures and all you have to do is be yourself blah blah.

[–]1Jaereth 4 points5 points  (1 child)

But every once in a while I see people say things like "women are an inferior, trash gender" and "women have no place in grad school". What I've been wanting to ask for a while is are these more radical users, or is this an accepted sentiment here? I feel like I should know before I go any further.

A lot of people start reading this because they are disillusioned with women to begin with at the time they start.

Also, most of this is sexual strategy. Sometimes guys bleed that too much into when talking about society in general here.

Can a girl raise 3 kids on her own? Of course. Totally possible. Would I date one? Not on your life. Can a woman hold a position of high authority and power in a company? For sure. I think they should be afforded every opportunity men are. But would I want to work under one? Well, I know it's anecdotal, but what are our lives aside from a collection of experiences we draw from to make decisions? Every time i've worked under one in the past they have been insufferable bitches, so in my experience, no.

[–]Down_But_Not_Deleted 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well, I know it's anecdotal

Yes, and despite anecdotal evidence having a bad name in science, sometimes it's the best thing we have to build off of. Although I understand now that TRP doesn't build off of solely anecdotal evidence, it's more akin to a combination of tools that cover each others weaknesses.

[–]FrgElder 5 points5 points [recovered]

But every once in a while I see people say things like "women are an inferior, trash gender" and "women have no place in grad school". What I've been wanting to ask for a while is are these more radical users, or is this an accepted sentiment here? I feel like I should know before I go any further.

This exists for a number of reasons. First off is due to what has been coined the 'anger phase' around here. These days men and women are constantly lied, disillusioned, and conditioned into believing a narrative for mating and sexual strategy that is completely fabricated and goes against the biological impulses of humans, or laws of nature. While this conditioning usually leads to some confusion for females ("why am I attracted to cocky ass holes and not my nice, caring, loving boyfriend?"), it affects the majority of males quite drastically. Most males go through their entire lives without ever learning how sexual strategy works, they try to be the "nice guy" that everyone from his mom/dad, to his friends, to commercials, to disney, etc., has told him to be to get girls. He's put so much effort into doing this that it's become ingrained and attached to his personality.

Then he fails with women... Over and over again. He can't figure out why, he's doing what everyone in his life has conditioned him to act like since he was a boy. Some of those boys kill themselves, some go into deep depressions, others become asexual basement dwellers. A few inquisitive minds will try to find out why nothing is working for them. They find TRP and all of a sudden it just clicks. They've had the rug pulled out from under them as they realize their entire lives are a lie. They feel isolated, alone, betrayed, and angry. I know this because I went through the exact phase. I always hated my mother for how she acts and what she's done to my father, but now I knew why she acted like this. My current LTR who was treating me poorly, I took out a lot of anger on that she didn't deserve. You feel so alone and angry at the world that you lash out in some shape or form. Some do it to those around them, others do it to themselves, and some vent about it on an internet forum.

After a while though you realize that they're just as much a slave to the false narrative and their biological impulses as you are. You realize they don't act maliciously intentionally, they're just fundamentally different from men. You can't hold them to the same standard or judge them from the same perspective. For those that put effort into self-improvement and learning the landscape of sexual strategy, they eventually move on into acceptance and understanding. But there are many many men that are perpetually stuck in the anger phase, as they would prefer to take victim status rather than improve their lives with their new found knowledge.

Secondly, look at any internet forum or online community. Whether it's about TRP, gaming, photography, working out, etc, how do you picture their user base? Most likely there will be a distribution of a few experts (<5-10%), many hobbyists/average skilled users (~20-30%), and many many new users who have recently taken an interest in the subject (majority). Based on what I said before about people starting out in the anger phase and eventually reaching acceptance/enlightenment, what do you think is the mood of the usergroup that makes up the majority of TRP's user-base? The majority of users here are very very new to TRP and they are still very much in the anger phase. Also due to the response-bias of people more emotionally connected responding to topics, who do you think will be the loudest and quickest to respond?

Continued in next post

[–]Down_But_Not_Deleted 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Consider this a place holder for my future response, forgive me as I've been busier than expected lately.

You've typed out quite a lot, so I will take time addressing you properly.

[–]sacbite 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Of course there's room for argument. There are a lot of guys like me who enjoy RP but who think the misogyny here is ridiculous. RP attracts a wide range of bros, including those who are just furious at women. Try to ignore those poor souls. Many of us here know women are as variable as men, and, frankly, have some virtues (in a range of probabilities) that men don't generally have.

[–]Down_But_Not_Deleted 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, I've run into a variety of different users just in this thread alone. I'll keep your comment in mind in the future.

[–]graffix13 1 point2 points  (2 children)

"women are an inferior, trash gender" and "women have no place in grad school"

Can you provide links to such statements? Or is this conjecture?

Not saying your quote is false, I was just curious. Because from my time here I really haven't read anything like that.

[–]3savoryprunes 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's likely that just a few of the worst offenders are the ones that stuck in his head. I've seen a very small number of such comments, myself.

[–]Down_But_Not_Deleted 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'll try and go back through the various threads I've lurked over in the past month, but to be fair other users have told me that those comments stem from people in the anger phase.

[–]Redsqa 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Because to be honest I don't see how noticing men/women have different mating techniques automatically leads to men being superior and women being garbage.

Like you say, "Men/women have different mating techniques". That is because they have different roles which made them different at the core, in their brain, in their psychology, in their biology. Those differences also transpire into other domains (not just mating) where that makes them garbage (but not all); and society is not acknowledging this fact (or, to elaborate, started rejecting only recently this observable truth). Simple as that.

The problem is not that women don't have the same abilities and behaviours than men, the problem is that we fail to recognize that, and this is creating ridiculous situations where everybody feels like shit : in relationships, at work, in politics. Women are held to men standards and expected to do the same jobs - inevitably they fail to do that and they are unhappy and unfulfilled, so we blame men and "patriarchy". Men are expected to treat women as if they were male, psychologically, which to leads to failed relationships where no one needs are being met and where nobody is happy, so we blame each other.

A fun analogy :

Imagine Cleveland is picking players for its basketball team. They pick 7 professional basketball players... And they pick 7 professional curling players.

They used to recruit only basketball players but in the last years the NBA has been insisting that basketball players and curling players are the same. Inevitably, Cleveland has a terrible season. The curling players perform terribly; they are 5'11", they have no cardio, they don't handle the pressure because they are not used to as many people watching; they are simply not made for this game at a pro level. They score 0.7 points for every points scored by the basketball players. Of course, even if the general public tells them it's okay, the curling players feel like shit. And the basketball players get pissed off at the situation.

What is at fault for the situation here ?

A. Having curling players in a pro basketball team and expecting that they perform the same.
B. The rules of the basketball game.

Well, the NBA decides it's B; the curling players are being systematically oppressed by the rules of this game : Suspend any basketball player stating fact A. Lower the height of the hoop to 6 feet and stop keeping track of the score.

[–]Ifuckinglovepron 1 point2 points  (1 child)

You seem to forget that reddit is user generated. Therefore no opinion here is "official".

That said, opinions, like those who say them, run the gamut from "I have never had a girlfriend and am always friendzoned so I hate women and they are scum.". To " I understand that, unlike what is commonly sold to us now, men and women are not the same, rather they are like Yin and Yang, opposites that balance each other, and therefore operate differently in the world."

[–]Down_But_Not_Deleted 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Therefore no opinion here is "official".

Thank you for your comment!

I have gathered that there doesn't seem to be an official opinion in the sub, so the side bar and the linked blogs have been immensely helpful as a starting point.

[–]FortunateBum 1 point2 points  (1 child)

TRP is a discussion, not a religion.

If you're looking for someone to tell you what to think, then may I recommend church? There may be one in your community.

If you disagree with what someone writes, you may want to tell them why they're horribly wrong.

There is also the use of generalization and hyperbole necessary when discussing any large group of people. Otherwise, you can't talk about a large group of people. You can only talk about each individual. Pattern recognition is a basic of human perception and neurology. If you refuse anything that comes from this feature, don't know what to say except how dare you respond to this message unless you know every single detail about my personal identity!

[–]Down_But_Not_Deleted 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If you're looking for someone to tell you what to think, then may I recommend church? There may be one in your community.

Oh, trust me when I say that I'm not looking for someone to tell me what to think. However the discussions generated by my post have gone very far in widening my knowledge of TRP. I can assure you that there's merit in engaging a community.

Thank you for your comment!

[–]alvlear 0 points1 point  (1 child)

These are very good questions, the kind we like here. It seems you really want to understand TRP, in that case search for the red pill handbook. The red pill handbook has the creme de la creme of this subreddit, delineating it's very foundations. It will fill in the gaps you currently have while on your journey of being uplugged.

Yours,

A philosophical anger phaser.

[–]Down_But_Not_Deleted 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I've stumbled onto that resource and will also be going through it. I enjoy the comments from users stating that I'm on a journey of some sort, being unplugged as you put it. I try to approach all things I'm working on with an open mind, so who knows!

[–]ColdEiric 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Read more of the sidebar and the recommended blogs. If you want to understand it by reading and talking 'with the best and the most enlightened writers', read what they've already written. Go through their previous posts and comments. They're the best.

The majority here wants a quick cheatcode on how to get laid. Listen to them too, but as a thief would lift money out of your wallet. Listen to them too, but know that they don't care about telling you anything. If you want to know, you have to read more and wonder more and get more headaches from not understanding yet.

[–]Down_But_Not_Deleted 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Listen to them too, but know that they don't care about telling you anything.

I can assure to you that I am going through the recommend blogs and other material, however I've found that a dynamic conversation is often a helpful approach. It's easier to understand theories if you prod them and observe how they react in different situations. But yes, I'm trying to incorporate as many sources as I can.

[–]Ifuckinglovepron 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You seem to forget that reddit is user generated. Therefore no opinion here is "official".

That said, opinions, like those who say them, run the gamut from "I have never had a girlfriend and am always friendzoned so I hate women and they are scum.". To " I understand that, unlike what is commonly sold to us now, men and women are not the same, rather they are like Yin and Yang, opposites that balance each other, and therefore operate differently in the world."

[–]RPmatrix 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Is the ink already dry and this whole school of thought set in stone?

FAR from it bro, we've only just begun, and it's members like yourself who are capable of adding a great deal more to TRP philosophy which is beginning to evolve nicely

AT the moment, TRP uses a LOT of generalizations But that's becoz it's easier that to say 90% of women will behave that way 100% of the time or vice versa, as you are aware "AWALT" is a generalized warning to be thoughtful about them, esp to the newer (very Blue Pill) guys

welcome DBND, I look forward to hearing more of your thoughts

cheers

[–]Down_But_Not_Deleted 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Going back to my original comment, the line you quoted shows more bravado than I intended on using. I guess I got carried away towards the end of typing!

I will be here lurking, but I'm not sure if I can really discuss things in other threads like I have here. A moderator kindly left up my original post because of the discussion it generated, but I get the feeling that this may be the exception.

[–]RPmatrix 0 points1 point  (0 children)

the line you quoted shows more bravado than I intended on using. I guess I got carried away towards the end of typing!

Haha, to keep this short I'll put it like this: I'm a 50yo Australian (atypical) Alpha male; IMHO who leans heavily towards being an "Alpha Sigma something I'd be happy to discuss with you via pm -- when I joined iirc there were ~ there were well <100k subscribers here at them time.

Looking back I realize TRP's basic philosophy was already mine, not completely, but enough, at least 60%+ and so it was easy to 'digest' TRP as I was a 20something in the 80's, so I HAD to learn my Game and Fame IRL, which helped a great deal when I post now, for I usually speak from personal experience (unlike many)

when I first came here, I has to step/post more cautiously as it's waaay to easy to be "mis-taken" online so I have tried to learn from some of the great posts written here, to improve mine, I'm not sure but I think they did! lol

Also, now I've been around a bit ,, Snr Members (and mods?)who know me cut me a little slack for my weird writing styles :D) BUT will not accept ANY bullshit, so the standard here has risen on order of magnitude over the pasy year or so, and we NEED smart guys who have good things to say, and DO do

That's guys like you DBND ;D

Since back then, imo, TRP has evolved into something far more complex, and it seems to me that, once you have assimilated the basic RP ideology, many guys here are seeeking a quality LTR and the Intimacy (and problems) which can come with one

IMO TRP is now heading past the "improve yourself and they will cum" to something far more 'considered' re:successful LTR's (and maybe even babies, BUT NOT 'marriage' -- The Captain and First mate metaphor explains this best.

I'm an 'fringedweller' here but the positive feedback had made it well worthwhile i.e. here's PART of a pm I got today, from a 17 3/4yo homeschooled (now ex) Mormon kid who's Pain I could understand and I thought I could help him, so I tries (ALL the time reminding him that it was ALL Up to HIM to DO it) as I guided him as best I could

I had asked him if I had helped him? The kid I met online ~7-8mths ago who just needed a bit of a guide and some encouragement

From: this kid;

  • I use Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs assigned to the form of a pyramid in my mind, I've been realizing that the pyramid has crumbled almost completely. The most basic needs, physiological, are no longer being satisfied for a variety of reasons. I haven't eaten consistently and well for two weeks and it's starting to have significant negative affects on everything. I haven't been respected in years and I don't even respect myself. My friends have all pretty told me to kill myself recently and my family just tells me to get over whatever I feel. I haven't felt safe in any way or felt secure about my future in two years. I've spent every day since I turned seventeen angry or extremely depressed. I have no energy and no motivation to achieve anything. The simplest failure just deterred me from pursuing something that could have been a form of employment. I feel like the only friends I have are strangers on the internet and my beloved parrot. I don't even know what most of the things I have going on emotionally are and I am completely incapable of changing my thoughts to more positive things. Sorry for such a post, I just needed to list as many things as I could.

TO, recieved today; this kid who's already fingerbanged a chick from the church ... I think he might try fucking her tonight which me thinks is awesome! He just had NO ONE he could Trust about "what to DO and why", which was where I stepped in (with much, gentle yet forceful) 'cyber arse kicking' when his "old BBP ways" appeared

  • You have helped greatly, as you set me on a path that made it so I could have happiness through building value to myself and others, rather than only relying on delusion to keep myself happy. Without you, I'd probably have given up on TRP a long time ago and probably would have never gotten my license.

This makes it all worthwhile.

I think your pov would be most useful for many as well as guiding TRP's into "new frontiers"!

Don't forget the girls are equally deluded by BP Bullshit and IMHO it's time we Men who can, at least TRY TO help them UNlearn the crap they've been fed ALL their lives -- just as guys can come here to Unlearn the Crap and 'become thier best' IMHO the RP 'leaders' (alphas/sigmas) have a responsibility to help those humans too .... just NOT in this sub

I am not alone thinking this way, and I like your style bro, so speak up, after all, what's the worst thing that could happen? You'll become a RP Legend! lol

thanks for asking, and a BIG welcome to TRP matey

[–]Johnny_Lawless_Esq 1 point2 points  (0 children)

What they don´t want to admit is that if those points are valid it necessarily follows that in some areas women are not the equals of men

That doesn't follow at all. That's shitty, rotten, confirmation-bias thinking. The only conclusion that can be drawn from their unwillingness to reconsider their worldview is that they are people, and people hate reconsidering their worldview. It's part of the human condition.

[–]St_OP_to_u_chin_me 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Female lions are superior to male lions in many ways. And the same is true for Male lions. They are superior to female lions in many ways. This domination everyone speaks of, I've never understood where it comes from. It is not the US society IMO.

[–]Steve_Wiener 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's a hell of an euphemism.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

They will accept all the premises (especially if it's about that bitch, over there), but reject the conclusion that applies to them.

[–]TRP VanguardCyralea 0 points1 point  (0 children)

They only concede the points that still leverage women power. Lift, be more confident, be more funny, etc. The second you suggest having standards or acting in your own self-interest first, you start taking power away from women and that flies in the face of the female imperative.

That's literally the only difference between what's acceptable and what's not.

[–]Sdom1 7 points8 points  (0 children)

And then she'd get a bigger, more aggressive, independent, ambitious man and she'd bitch about him on a forum - same as she's doing now! Women very, very rarely change.

Oh, she'd be happy for a bit, but then his flaws would start to be all she saw, and even his virtues would become annoying. He's large and masculine? She'd start to feel like he ran her over. He's independent? She has needs too! Ambitious? He's never around, the kids never see him, bla bla bla.

Some people are negative as their default setting. You can't make a relationship run all by yourself. If a relationship is what you want, at least half the battle is choosing the right woman at the outset. And really, you should choose your friends the same way.

[–]herknav 9 points10 points  (3 children)

love the way she got called out on a double standard (5th comment)

My girlfriend is the most accepting, loving, kind person I've met. She will love me and be faithful until death. She's my best friend, we have similar interests and do everything together. We've been together for almost 5 years. Our whole relationship I've battled the fact that I'm not very physically attracted to her. I want bigger titties, more perky, full, and bouncy. She's pretty, but smaller and close to my size. She's gentle, affectionate (more than me) and always been there for me, helping me through so much. But, I keep desiring to be with other chicks, and picturing what my life would be like with other breasts. If we broke up it would crush her. She has no friends, her life revolves around me, her whole family lives in another state, we've planned our whole future together including children, a homestead... I just don't know what to do. tl;dr: My girlfriend loves me and is kind, gentle, forgiving, accepting, my best friend. I love her but keep desiring to be with others, to find bigger, fatter, more massive tits. Should I continue battling to accept and love her as he does me, to settle for someone who will always be there, or should I seek out the more "busty" chick I seem to desire so much?

but it's sad to think that was probably written by a sad-sack fat-body still convinced "it'll just happen" for him if he tries even harder to be a nice guy.

[–]Endorsed Contributorbicepsblastingstud 10 points11 points  (2 children)

a double standard

It's not a double-standard -- this is exactly right. It's a great analogy.

It's not this girl's fault that she isn't attracted to her loser pansy of a boyfriend, just like it's not a guy's fault for being attracted to biological markers like waist/hip ratio and large breasts.

[–]herknav 6 points7 points  (0 children)

The "double standard" is one of perception - that when a woman wants a more attractive man, it's perceived as perfectly reasonable, but when a man wants a more attractive woman, it's perceived as sexist.

Focusing on the double standard, even if it feels sooooo good, is missing the point. Instead, men should simply recognize the reality of what women want them to be (rather than what women say they want men to be).

[–]taracus[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is what I was trying to point out in the "Top comment" section of my post.

I totally agree, we so often get told that physical attraction isnt that important when in reality it's the core of our reproduction-system evolved over hundred of thousands of generations. Not saying that it's enough to make an LTR work, but so many people dont see it as an prerequisite.

[–]TheRedStoic 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Eh. Trp is only full of shit when it is spoken by a male

Women talk trp truths more often than not amongst themselves, but they use power talk and covert methods. It's only evil if mansplained (overt).

You gotta love them, they're adorable. They really are simple little creatures.

[–]momomotorboat 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Because feelz. TRP is full of shit. The kind you lay on the ground to nurture your crops and foster growth.

[–]Javier_Mendoza 1 points1 points [recovered]

Once again, the question no one asks is why a woman would date a man for 5 years if she's not attracted to him.

[–]mksu 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Because society also drills in the heads of women that this girl's boyfriend is what they should seek and want.

[–][deleted] 29 points30 points  (5 children)

Women understand feelings first. She is explaining her boyfriend from a comfort point of view. He looks like a fucking pillow, I’d bet. If he looked like a model, she would explain her ideal boyfriend from a tingles point of view. She'd complain about not having a pillow then.

Thus, we can come to the conclusion that you can lead a woman…by how you look and act. Holy fuck. No shit. That hypocritical bitch and her easily manipulated feelings.

Lessons of women’s nature: It’s like people find certain qualities attractive and it’s not negotiable. Is it hypocritical? Only if you are a weak body pillow.

[–]DforDeadpool 19 points20 points  (4 children)

[–]tromix1 4 points5 points  (0 children)

The socks + sandals made me laugh way too hard

[–]GC0W30 1 point2 points  (1 child)

WTF is this, bro?

Where did it come from?

The M'Lady skit from Schumer or some shit?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

See that soft pink brain quivering with pent up emotion? All she has to do is smile at him and he’ll bend over and let her thrust her emotional member straight down his spine. He’s so needy, no need for her to use protection.

[–]Olipyr 38 points39 points  (5 children)

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[–]DforDeadpool 23 points24 points  (1 child)

Women are more prone to social conditioning. A little anecdote, I was hanging out with my friends. We have a mutual friend named Jason. All of the sudden his name came up, and all girls started to throw shit at the guy. He was a good dude, even being a little bipolar and unpredictable, we loved the guy back then. And they were throwing shit at him for no reason. I said, "Why are you saying those, I love that mofo". In that moment they said they too actually liked him but everyone was speaking ill of him so they felt compelled to say those things. If even a social circle can put pressure on people like this, imagine what the whole society would do.

[–]1james-watson 14 points15 points  (0 children)

...and this is why the Founding Fathers, in their wisdom, did not give women the vote.

But of course we're much smarter and more advanced than that. /s

[–]TRP VanguardCyralea 3 points4 points  (0 children)

My boyfriend is the most accepting, loving, kind person I've met.

You can still be this and be a manly man. It's not a bad thing as long as you are genuine about it.

That's just a social cover so that she doesn't come across as callous or shallow. Women are good at these kinds of pre-emptive statements, their entire lives revolve around their social image.

[–]Porqueee -1 points0 points  (1 child)

Did I just read something rational?

[–]Racism_Is_Natural 0 points1 point  (0 children)

99% can't quite put their finger on it to be able to verbalize it.

Not true. They know exactly what they want. They just don't want to admit it because then they'll stop getting free dinners, lenient sentencing, child rights, pedestal rights. It's the biggest con of all time.

[–]ricardomayorga 15 points16 points  (5 children)

I have to comment because this HAD me written all over it.

Younger version of me used to sing to girls, talk soft and caring. AND IT NEVER GOT ME RESPECT!! NEVER. NEVER NEVER.

I was the guy they confided in about female bullshit, I was the best friend guy.

Then one day I decided to be me. If I didn't like X, I would say it.

Im not swimming in pussy, but I dont get taken for granted as often anymore and I am content with that

[–]Oakwood2317 6 points7 points  (3 children)

Same here. My parent's marriage broke up due to my father's violent alcoholism, was raised by women who taught me to be "one of the GOOD men" who does everything women and society say women actually want and was a virgin until I wised up in my early 30s.

[–]insoucianc 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Christ. Welcome home soldier.

[–]ricardomayorga 0 points1 point  (1 child)

women don't know what they want.

I have seen it too many times.

I used to read cosmos and model myself to be THAT guy

[–]Oakwood2317 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think women understand what they are attracted to perfectly fine-they just don't want to think or speak about themselves in any way that could be considered unflattering. I'll admit to having committed the Caridnal Sin of discussing RedPill ideas with women. In 100% of cases they didn't deny the truths expressed here, they simply asked why I hated women so much. I once discussed female sexual attraction to dominant males, and the evolutionary advantages this confers, with a few female friends of mine. One said that kind of thinking was "regressive" and the other said, "Well, I'd like to think I'm more evolved than that." Women won't admit to what they want-we all know this. They will only admit to what they would like to want but don't actually.

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 15 points16 points  (6 children)

Additional Lessons learnt:

  • Commitment kills desire

[–]allnamesfckintaken 4 points5 points  (0 children)

only before their settling years. when they're 35, commitment probably makes them horny until they have their first baby.

[–]taracus[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Do you consider that true for men as well?

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Less so.

The male sex drive is less conditional than the female.

[–]TechnoRaptor 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Committment is for family forming, forming a family kills desire because it's not about your selfish desires anymore, it's about the family. If you cannot derive any sort of satisfaction from creating a family then stop committing to people. Families exist to give a stable envioronment for offspring and male and female to look up to and understand the way of life in today's whacky, complex high tech world. If anyone one brings up commmittment in a relationship that's just saying hey i want to get ready for our family. That's why relationships from 16-25 are so drama filled, because you are wrapped up in this idea of committement but there is no family creation in sight.

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Sure... but this implies that having children will magically make the drama disappear...

[–]TechnoRaptor -1 points0 points  (0 children)

no it's agreeing that you are in this for the purpose of family and that you both understand the implications of having a family. Stress, more work, less about each other's constant happiness/satisfaction. It's agreeing the absolute committent kind of sucks, but taking the good with the bad, mutual agreement that life isn't a romance novel or a fairy tale. It's rough.

[–]AtlRP 9 points10 points  (1 child)

One poster gets close:

It sounds to me like the issue could be more than maybe that he isn't 'manly', it's that he has nothing in his life outside of you. That kind of dependency isn't attractive at all. I get the feeling it has a lot to do with wanting him to show initiative/take the lead in areas of his own life and your relationship.

But then drops the ball:

Encourage him to seek out his own hobbies, make his own friends. You clearly care about him. Just tell him honestly that it isn't attractive for him to have no other interests outside of your relationship. You need a partner, not somebody with no life of their own.

Telling him would defeat the point. Women want a man who "just gets it."

[–]manoloman2 9 points10 points  (1 child)

Zan Perrion talks a lot about this, he says that women want to join an adventure with an awesome man, not BE the adventure themselves, and a lot of relations fails because a woman can meet an amazing man pasionate about 10000 things, but he ends ignoring those 10000 things for her, then he's not the same man that she fell in love with

[–]allnamesfckintaken 2 points3 points  (0 children)

women want to join an adventure with an awesome man, not BE the adventure themselves

one of the most true fucking shit ever.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (2 children)

There's nothing wrong with being nice and affectionate. But that's something that you can allow to yourself when you have muscle, money, looks, and game.

Or to out it simply: high smv = nice is ok / low smv = nice sucks

[–]taracus[S] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Well if your smv is high enough for her to consider you 'her alpha' you can more or less act any way you want (till the point where she doesnt see you as 'her alpha' any more).

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I'm not sure - often high smv guys, especially jacked guys look insecure if acting as an asshole.

On the other hand muscular high smv guy acting calm and nice is immense tingle generator

[–]benuntu 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Distilled: I want someone who doesn't value me as much as I'd like.

Why? Because that must mean they have a higher value than me, and therefore I'm lucky to have them. This only seems to be the case with insecure women, or those with actually low value. They know they aren't worth much, and then wonder why their BF puts them on a pedestal.

[–]allnamesfckintaken 0 points1 point  (0 children)

the thing about attraction is, you don't care if they want you. all that matters is you want them. then after you want them, THEN you want them to want you back. as an evolutionary strategy, that makes more sense. if you have a person that takes care of you but doesnt have the genes that make your gene pool better, then you only live for this generation. then your offspring would be weak.

[–]okkyle 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Note the masculine:feminine dichotomy

My boyfriend is the most accepting, loving, kind person I've met...He has no friends, his life revolves around me, his whole family lives in another state, we've planned our whole future together including children, a homestead... I just don't know what to do.

How many guys would love a woman that was totally devoted to them, kind and loving. Excluding for a moment that being disconnected from family is a red flag, a doting, available woman is what men want. Rarely will you hear a man complain, "I've got this gf, she's so great, loving, devoted, always wants sex, but she's just too available to me, doesn't spend enough time out drinking with her friends." No! Men have the opposite problem.

[–]kappy_the_kike 2 points3 points  (0 children)

shes already fucking some other dude. shes just posting here to make herself feel better

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Archwinger's post on "the number one mistake of married women: marrying a guy to whom they're not attracted" is a must read.

[–]4juice 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Something relevant i want to share/ask you folks here.

Met a girl today at work and she went on to talk about her LTR. One thing she told was her boyfriend is not like other guys. He doesnt oogle at random/other girls like most guys do. She said her LTR is the best she have right now because his only focus is herself. I responded by saying her guy might be gay which she swiftly refuted. I plan to plate this girl. How will their relationship turn out, anyone here can foresee it?

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

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[–]A_DERPING_ULTRALISK 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It's always interesting to run into stark examples of the duality of human nature.

I can only imagine what an alien species would think if they attempted to understand human psychology.

[–]xxmindtrickxx 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This isn't just a stupid girl syndrome though, you could apply this to anything in life and any person.

This girl is just totally out of synch with what she wants in her own life.

She went out and got, as you said, a "cosmo" man. She didn't listen to herself, she's like the blue pill version of a female.

Edit: I wrote this out and realized it's nearly identical to what the 2nd top comment says.

[–]Ageless_Blunder 1 point2 points  (0 children)

There it is folks, straight from the horse's mouth.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is what led me to TRP. I was the same way with this girl I had been dating. I gave her "everything" (time, attention, spent money on her, let her make decisions - basically never took the lead). She ended it because "I didn't make her heart race and she didn't get weak in the knees when I touched her back". In my case the pill wasn't bitter, but a soothing explanation that made perfect sense. I've never had a problem getting girls, but I did in keeping them... Since finding TRP I've never looked back.

[–]Josewasframed 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Telling him would defeat the point. Women want a man who "just gets it."

Precisely.

What we need to understand, as men, is that we can't listen to women or the media to tell us how to live. It's the classic 'fish trying to teach a fisherman how to catch itself'. It's not gonna work.

Women view the world from a woman's perspective and men view it from a man's perspective. When the perspectives criss-cross (i.e. men try taking advice from women) they end up trying to install a women's mindset into a man's head and it doesn't work, and vice versa.

AKA when she tells you to be kind, or do this or that-- ignore it. Think in your mind what you want to do AS A MAN, and do that. She will thank you for it, because she wants you thinking for yourself AS A MAN, not as her, a woman.

[–]OlBastard 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well, there's another cheater on the market. I say this is a win for us.

[–]OscarWhisky 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It certainly backs up TRP theory, but this is only one woman. I mean, I find it quite a basic tenet that many women do not want supplicating men.

[–]Cptn_Jib 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is a fantastic post. Pure truth

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

[–]heatyourpipe 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Women don't know what makes them wet, their pussy does.

[–]allnamesfckintaken 1 point2 points  (0 children)

most women won't admit what makes them wet if it is irrational and makes them look bad.