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MetaThe Viability of the Red Pill in the Future - Border Erosion (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by Modredpillschool

When TRP was in its infancy, the number one goal I had put into place for the moderation team was to ensure that our message didn't slip and that we didn't allow our focus to be eroded by our politically correct culture.

Armed with the knowledge that the feminine imperative would see to it that we would be infiltrated and eventually tone-policed, we took a hard line stance against concern trolling. Comments like "maybe we should tone down the anger just a little bit," or "can't we say this without the anger?" were considered slippery slopes that would eventually lead to our demise. And I think we were 100% right about that.

Essentially, the way the feminine imperative controls the social narrative is that it aligns what can and should be politically correct with what best serves women. It seems like a simple effect, but it's rather overwhelming when you consider its implications.

There should be no doubt in your mind how the feminine imperative has defined this narrow volume of political correct speech (which we will refer to as the overton window). When there's discussion of TRP outside of our borders, it always criticizes and dismisses us due to our language and our premises, rather than discuss rationally any merits to our conclusions. They are able to do this because speech that is critical of the female gender falls outside the overton window. No logical debate necessary when you can easily dismiss an entire group of people with a hand waive and a thought-terminating cliche.

Women changing male spaces has always been known to us. Examples in real life are plentiful- men's clubs, men's gyms, the armed forces - anything primarily for men have been infiltrated by women and then systematically destroyed from the inside.

But this effect isn't limited to women. Men, employed by the feminine imperative, are just as able to help enforce the status quo by self-limiting and tone policing their friends to ensure we also obey the rules of the politically correct. Every day, our mod team removes at least two or three such fellows who arrive with well meaning but misdirected attempts to tone down the misogyny here so that we can still discuss the good parts of TRP without all that hatred! "TRP is really just about self improvement, afterall," they would say.

And it certainly sounds nice to think that. Yeah, we are here to get better, aren't we?

But serving the feminine imperative is exactly what that does. What is the word "improvement" without a goal to work towards? If we are making ourselves better, then to whose standard of better are we striving? If we accept the notion of dropping misogyny (or the apparent misogyny as it were) and focusing only on politically correct advice such as working out and eating right, then we have done a great service to the feminine imperative. We have curtailed our own goals to serve the feminine. We have changed ourselves to benefit others. That sort of self-improvement is acceptable to our politically correct overlords. It seems so easy to adopt it and move on, that almost every single male organization did so without realizing the consequences, and are now shells of their former selves.

Our self-improvement is one to benefit us. Since the connotation of the phrase "self-improvement" is so commonly accepted as the feminine-primary version, I hesitate to use the term at all, lest it be mistaken for "self-improvement-for-women." We are here to learn the truth. How we act on this information is up to the individual, and how it improves them is not for the benefit of society, women, or others. Rather, it is for the benefit of themselves in the most selfish and greedy of ways.

I think a better way to put it, is that we're here for "improvement for self." Though a key element here is improving one's options in life through exercise and learning skills (which seem merely like self improvement), our end goal is not to serve somebody else's imperative, but to increase our position in life to satisfy our own imperatives. That others' imperatives may be served along the way is incidental.

This infiltration and tone-modification strategy is, unfortunately, not the only strategy, and I have become increasingly aware of another way the feminine imperative manages to do its dirty deed.

Pressure to change, not from the inside, not from the outside, but from the borders.

When we started TRP, almost immediately a backlash subreddit was made to mock us. It was mostly unnecessary, because it appeared the mocking and distaste sprang up around reddit any time our name was mentioned.

Our strategy to these was mostly to ignore it. Nobody's mind was being changed by trolls who mock. Their efforts to shut down or modify our discussion were entirely failures. Anybody dismissing us in these manners made us stronger as a group. It enticed new users to check us out, and it strengthened group cohesion among those already here.

But the borders were a different front line altogether. The borders were a soft spot, and I'm not sure I realized just how soft they would turn out to be.

Just on the borders of TRP were "friendly" complimentary subreddits. They appear on the surface to be just like our main subreddit, but with a slightly different focus. Just a small microcosm of the bigger parent sub. One might consider this a strength, that ideas can spread out and continue to evolve.

The problem is that they co-opted the red pill moniker, but make no mistake- they were doling out blue pills just as sure as if they had been the trolls mocking us to begin with. Whether through malice or ignorance, these groups managed to cave to the feminine imperative and pick and choose red pill tenets to believe, while still clinging to the falsehoods of blue pill fairy tales that made them feel good back in the old days.

Heck, like Cypher in the Matrix, I can see the allure to wanting to forget all this red pill stuff and go back to life before. It was comfortable believing in fairy-tale love and equality. But once you swallow the red pill, this is no longer an option.

But the groups on our borders still sit there with the tasty bait that things can be moderate, and that red pill isn't really so bitter afterall, you can hold on to your heart-warming delusions. That maybe the bitterness of the red pill is inherent with the sub and its unsavory members.

What's worse, is that these ideas can wheedle into our collective thoughts and are reflected by many users here. Perhaps our subscribers haven't even really thought about these memes before repeating them, they were collected from a red-pill source and regurgitated here. And the effects of the propaganda shine through, regardless of the intent of its originator or propagator, regardless of the veracity of the statements themselves.

We've heard a lot of these phrases here. "Too many people in the anger phase" or "too many spergs here" or "when you look past the misogyny" or "I don't agree with most things here, but..."

These are the beginnings of apologetics. They are pervasive and they are what destroys the long-term viability of this community.

I'm going to address a few subreddits on our borders, because I think it's time that the mod team take a public stance on them.

First, and foremost is PurplePillDebate, which I have been guilty of dabbling in on occasion. The primary takeaway from this subreddit is that in order to take part in a debate, you must first offer the obligatory apologies for the rough edges of TRP. Many well reasoned contributors who consider themselves red pill will introduce their argument with a leading apology such as "when you look past the misogyny," "hatred aside," or "it would be better without all the anger..."

If PPD is a battle for minds, then the apologists have decidedly lost. Accepting the frame that TRP is fundamentally flawed and working backwards from there ensures that the debate will only land at conclusions that benefit the feminine imperative. And the takeaway for any onlookers reading is that surely there is a moderate position somewhere in the middle- a "purple pill" of sorts. We can accept reality, except the parts that offend us. Those in the fringes of TRP may easily bite at such a delicious nugget rather than face the reality that the fairy tales are all false.

Other subs worthy of mention unfortunately include the Married Red Pill sub, which despite its efforts to give a safe haven to men who married while plugged in, has devolved into an exercise in rationalizing why it was a good idea to begin with. Despite my repeated attempts to help them steer into the right direction, I have been confronted by many members there simply defending marriage as a good decision for a man in western culture, one of whom was a moderator whose post read "knowing what I know now, I would get married all over again."

The argument uses a common theme that you might recognize. Those who don't get married simply "aren't alpha enough to survive a marriage." Marriage, to them, is red pill on hard mode, and only the best of the best survive. Interesting that shame should be the primary enforcer of this behavior. It reminds me of something... perhaps it's written about somewhere in our sidebar.

I imagine myself making a similar face reading about somebody bragging about surviving a game of russian roulette, trying to convince others it's a game of skill and that the bullets in the chamber are reserved only for those not strong enough to win.

There is much rationalization of marriage on our borders, and unfortunately much of it has been coming from who used to be our moderators for the /r/redpillwomen sub. It's disappointing that they ended up how they did (no longer moderating for us), but I suppose if I were to draw a life lesson from my experience on RPW, it would be that.. all women are like that.

For those who hadn't heard about the mods who left RPW, it essentially boiled down to a disagreement between them and me- where I intended to enforce these very principles I state here today, and they allowed petty interpersonal drama stand in the way of our mission. Ironic that they would act so typically like women, it's actually somewhat funny. I'm sure I'll write up a post in more detail about this soon.

Anyhow, the resounding argument from these ex-RPW women was that marriage was a necessary part of life for those in upper echelons of society. That upwards mobility was limited and determined by marriage status and that anybody with aspirations of high society or positions of power much consider marriage to be a staple part of their strategy.

On the surface, this would seem to ring true. Many, if not most, politicians are married. The rich tend to be married (often more than once). It would seem as though marriage was an important part of moving up the status ladder.

The problems with this reasoning are multi-fold. It frames the discussion of marriage as though the "status ladder" itself is one we should care to climb. In fact, thinking about this for a second reminds me that it is women who care about the social status of males. Climbing this ladder directly serves the imperative of women. Of course the threat of shame or social ostracization would make an appearance. We are essentially reading women's endorsement of a pro-women strategy... also known as the feminine imperative.

That we would need marriage to find personal success has been thoroughly debunked by discussion on TRP. Much like the higher-education industry has tricked generations of students that going $500,000 in debt is the only way to succeed in life, the feminine imperative has successfully tricked men everywhere that marriage is a prerequisite of success and status, and that status is an ultimate goal that would serve themselves. They have framed this quite well as self improvement. But is it "improvement for self?" I think not.

The statistics may show a number of rich or powerful men being married. But every man is the maker of his own fortune. These statistics may show correlation, but they do not imply causality. Further, it should be noted that older generations rich and poor are more likely to be married or stay married. There's no reason to follow in their footsteps rich or poor.

But these blue pill swallowing border-groups eat this up, because it helps rationalize their addiction to their fairy tale reality. That marriage is a necessary component to success is just the evidence they need to keep clinging on to the blue pill lies that they were comfortable believing to begin with.

And while we can't control these border-groups who sit on the outskirts and dangle blue candy at us, we can and will address the erosion of our focus being caused by them, who bring their BP views into our sub via subconscious propaganda.

We will be extra vigilant against those who care to regurgitate the nonsense originating from these places. Anger is not a phase, we won't tolerate tone policing, and we're not changing who we are.

Interestingly - as a side note- the minute the ex-RPW mods were scorned, their behaviors and attitudes switched off like a lightswitch, all the work and effort put into the sub in the past between myself and them was suddenly null and void. And they began their propaganda campaign against the RPW and TRP subs (in places like PPD and MRP as well as TBP), assuming the roles of blue pillers almost immediately. Suddenly, their view on TRP had always been negative, we had always been chumps, TRP has always been wrong.

Sure, ladies. We have countless texts dedicated to describing just how typical your behavior is.

We've got new mods for RPW now, and seasoned mods here on TRP ready to pull the trigger when somebody crosses over the line.

So here's to another 150,000 subscribers. We're ready for it.

We have a couple big announcements coming up in the next few weeks, so look forward to that. New content coming your way, new ideas, and some new stuff that should be really friggin cool. Stay tuned.


[–]Senior Endorsed ContributorCopperFox3c 156 points157 points  (45 children)

The efforts of the RPwives mods (aka ex-RPW mods) going on PurplePillDebate and the Blue Pill sub to directly attack TRP was probably the most ironic part of all this. All the sudden, we no longer provide any benefit for association (Briffault's Law), and they go full-on crazy assault. Fraternize with our opposition, publicly denounce us. Like some scorned ex-girlfriend. Like some war bride. I doubt they even realize their behavior is TRP 101.

If you want a pure example of AWALT, you need look no further. Even amongst the exemplars of so-called "red pill women" ...

As to all the attempted tone-policing and watering down of the TRP message, I'd simply add this: A sword must be forged in fire. There is no other way ...

[–]Endorsed ContributorMeat-on-the-table 54 points55 points  (39 children)

I stroked my goatee as I watched this all unfold. From being a part of building the RP community and contributing to it, to bucking against the hand that guided them and turning away when they decided that they didn't want anyone to regulate them.

They confirmed my worst suspicions about women and AWALT. Even when presented with facts that directly state that they will behave a certain way, they are powerless to stop themselves.

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 80 points81 points  (37 children)

they are powerless to stop themselves.

They are nothing more than creatures of emotion, forever victim to the whims of their irrationality.

[–]1lurkingtacopiller 50 points51 points  (15 children)

I've recently starting seeing a girl who has a deep understanding of male-female relationships and basically the majority of what we talk about here. Despite that, while she can literally point out when she's being what she calls "crazy", she then immediately says that she can't help it.

It doesn't matter how self-aware they are or like to think they are, there's nothing they can do to stop their emotional thoughts from seeping out.

[–]Senior ContributorNightwingTRP 59 points60 points  (2 children)

she then immediately says that she can't help it.

I have had multiple women admit to me that their vagina has more control over them than they have over it. They really can't help themselves and I think many of them know it. The thing is, once you realise that... if you admit it, then you basically confess that your opinions are worthless and anything you say could be driven by a fleeting emotion. So they try to deny it - because otherwise they'd never be taken seriously. (Which they shouldn't be.)

[–]Senior ContributorSkorchZang 50 points51 points  (0 children)

I was told there's a surprisingly resilient lewd russian proverb: "The Wife Is Not Her Pussy's Master."

It's the ABCs of women, and yet the delusional blue world will refuse to learn them, considering knowing the ABC or being literate in the subject, very immoral.

[–]Wel108 9 points10 points  (0 children)

As I'm sure we all already know, but it just makes me chuckle every time i get reminded of this. The fact that there's a message going around every where in society that MEN are the ones who cannot control their penis, or rather their desire.

At the very least say, "we're all human and everyone is different." But no, it's men, not women. Never women who have these uncontrollable urges and irrational thoughts.

[–]1KyfhoMyoba 26 points27 points  (8 children)

while she can literally point out when she's being what she calls "crazy", she then immediately says that she can't help it.

See my previous comment on this thread.

I believe her. I think that when women get "caught up in the moment" and when "it just happened," they really and truly can't control themselves, i.e., they lack agency.

I read a series of posts/comments on some marriage board by a woman that was trying to repair her young marriage after cheating on her husband one time (ONS, no alcohol involved). She first wanted advice on whether or not to tell her husband. She felt bad but didn't know if telling him would just add him to the 'feeling bad' category. Advice seemed to be overwhelming to confess, which she did. It was catastrophic. Over the next year attempting to fix things. She had no idea how much she had hurt her husband and the marriage. Throughout the entire year's posts and comments she seemed very, very sincere, open and as honest as she could be (many statements against interest). And here's the kicker: she could not figure out how she (consciously) came to the decision to cheat.

I've seen this same scenario in other accounts of wives cheating. They. Just. Don't. Know.

[–][deleted] 37 points37 points

[permanently deleted]

[–][deleted] 29 points30 points  (0 children)

And this right here is why you never trust a woman and women's words were regarded as worthless since pretty much forever. Why in Islam, a woman's words are worth half that of a man, if any. Why? Because their words have no meaning to them. They have no agency/responsibility.

[–]educatethis 2 points3 points  (2 children)

I've frequently refused wives who wanted to cheat. I tell them that I respect their spouses, and I wouldn't want to be cheated on myself. Women need leadership, they need to be around strength.

[–]Wel108 4 points5 points  (1 child)

I do the same, and for this exact same reason. But RP isn't about morality. It's about understanding the nature of women. There is no right or wrong in nature, it just is.

[–]educatethis 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I agree. But my code is to respect the poor bastard who stupidly got married by respecting his vows, not hers.

[–]Wel108 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You have no idea how much this resounded in me. Thinking back at my last relationship and the conversations we had after she fucked up, it was literally the same message.

Then, after all was said and done and we broke up, she hamstered by saying "she didn't cheat, and it wasn't actually cheating." But that's not what's important here. It's the correlation between her, literally crying and not knowing how this happened, how it got here, how did she become so weak, (which i believe) and then not being able to accept it after the fact as well. It's all relative, they're literally just victims to their emotion. No matter how much we may care, we can never give in and think that she is different, and she wouldn't "do that." Because given the right circumstances, any woman would.

Let's even go out on a limb here and say given the right circumstances, a man would too. But we logically and consciously make our mistakes, that's the fucking difference. It's the fleeting emotion of what she feels for you that's dangerous.

[–]Senior Contributorveggie_girl 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Women are slaves to their imperative. Slaves that cannot be freed. Unfortunately no matter how enlightened or educated the woman is, she can't contain it.

Heck even looking at extreme examples, there are FtM trannies that look like men and sound like men, but are unable to hold a relationship because they still are under full control of hypergamey.

[–]reigorius 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I've seen girls struggle real hard to overcome their inner disturbance when their ever changing needs are not met. I applaud the ones who can vocalise that their mind is utter chaos.

[–]Endorsed ContributorRedBigMan 10 points11 points  (4 children)

I have no hope for the MRP sub. Any man who would encourage other men to get married in the current legal environment are doing those men a huge disservice. Even if they are top tier alpha men they end up getting divorce raped and it's more likely because they have the money to lose.

As for the RPW sub. I can understand why they would promote marriage because it's about women who possess red pill knowledge. Knowing what they do about male and female interaction and dynamics it still makes sense that a woman would want to secure that ultimate level of commitment from her man because it ensures that she and any offspring they have will be taken care of in the event the relationship does not work. For a woman marriage is all benefit and no cost so it would be foolish for women not to promote the idea that they should get married. However, they should realize that a larger and larger portion of men... men they would like to sink their claws in to are opting out of marriage entirely which decreases their potential husband pool which means they need to make themselves more attractive both physically as well as mentally/socially to potential husband material men.

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 8 points9 points  (1 child)

I can understand why they would promote marriage because it's about women who possess red pill knowledge. Knowing what they do about male and female interaction and dynamics it still makes sense that a woman would want to secure that ultimate level of commitment from her man because it ensures that she and any offspring they have will be taken care of in the event the relationship does not work. For a woman marriage is all benefit and no cost so it would be foolish for women not to promote the idea that they should get married.

Agreed- and this is actually still very much the view of RPW. It was the point geared towards men that they were making that I was addressing. For women, they'd be insane not to want marriage.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (1 child)

Than you haven't been There. There are men pulling each other out of the mud, taking back their lives. Faggots being forged by fire and rebuilt. Alpha married guys running a solid, action oriented ship. Lawyers, doctors, phds, military men of all levels.

There's theory that easily compares in breadth and depth to a single man's rp theory.

Even tfa, with his marriage 1.0 outlook, still drives men to be on the top of their game, and does it well. I'm sure lots of people here find neoreactionaries views on the collapse unpalatable, but he's still a solid value here.

It's an Ironic statement, considering how much trp is vilified with one poster and a one off opinion in other subs.

[–]1KyfhoMyoba 13 points14 points  (6 children)

I ran across a study from the '80s showing that connectivity between the neocortex and the limbic system/brain stem is 8 to 12 times higher in men than in women. Wish I could find it again.

[–]Proda 12 points13 points  (7 children)

Basically women are like the Orks from 40k. Only difference is the kind of emotion that drives them.

Ork= Bloodlust

Woman= Self-interest.

I wonder why weren't men selected by evolution to accept such a behaviour from women and we instead find it odd and strange when we come to realize it piercing the veil of Maya...

[–]Axel_Black 5 points6 points  (2 children)

You fucking nerd lmao. I love it hahaha. Dow 3 announced btw.

[–]Proda 7 points8 points  (1 child)

Well I AM a nerd :P but seriously, that doesn't mean that the Red Pill isn't any less true or useful for someone who is less interested in women than average. And, dear god DoW 3, I need it like I need air! I'm so Hyped...

[–]reigorius 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Interesting question. Why didn't we? Why does the blue pill mindset seems to be default by nature, even without the unrelenting avalanche of blue pill speak, thinking and propaganda.

[–]Proda 2 points3 points  (0 children)

My take on this is that we may have internalized during our evolution the concept that women are valuable, inherently more so than men, that is why we frown upon those who kill "women and children" and the blue pill mindset grew up feeding on this, but still I know my interpretation is just partial, and It has been a long while since I studied evolutionary biology so I may be wrong, but I still wanted to discuss this topic as I find it very important to better understand ourselves as men.

[–]TheInevitableHulk 1 point2 points  (1 child)

That's basically what eldar are, they do the whole sterile ritual stuff because if they don't they will turn out like the dark eldar which are living the same way they always have which caused another chaos god to appear which screwed everything up

[–]Proda 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hey, this actually makes sense!

[–]Endorsed ContributorMeat-on-the-table 6 points7 points  (0 children)

And the safe-space-echo-chamber that the forum provided them only amplified the situation. Any lingering doubts solitary members may have had were quashed out by the screams of the hamster in unison.

[–][deleted] 17 points18 points  (0 children)

I honestly don't understand the point of the RPwives/Rpwomen subs. Its essentially just whores convincing themselves they're not whores from what I can tell. Being traditional doesn't change anything.

[–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (2 children)

Except they brought it to mrp. Was a great example for guys on the nature of women.

Felt like the kid whose divorced parents would bitch about the other one, and pass messages through us.

[–]Endorsed ContributorBluepillProfessor 4 points5 points  (1 child)

More like ignored you while they scratched and fought over you.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Lol, neither wanted us.

[–]mensafloyd 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Excellent, CopperFox3c! Excellent! The funny thing is, The Red Pill means you're unplugged, you see reality for the ugly and not so ugly truths that it is. One refers to logic and empirical facts as part of The Red Pill! Yet RPW uses allegorical comparisons from fiction as a means to justify their brand of hamstering! When in reality their way of thinking is mental Cosplay at best. The Red Pill (men) need to take re-ownership of the brand so it can stop getting molested by these so called red pill women. AWALT absolutely! Again, Excellent!

[–]Endorsed ContributorMeat-on-the-table 39 points40 points  (3 children)

Men, employed by the feminine imperative, are just as able to help enforce the status quo by self-limiting and tone policing their friends to ensure we also obey the rules of the politically correct.

Such an overlooked point, but one of immense importance. I liken it to the slave foremen of old: slaves "elevated" to be in charge of other slaves. They were often recorded as being the most brutal and uncompromising, eager to serve the master and prove how much better they were than the others.

The BP suckers are indoctrinated to serve the system early on and to continue to propagate self-censorship and the censorship of others. This only brings more men into the fold, as they take their cue from badgered fathers and husbands who are the tools of the feminine system.

Freedom comes at the cost of ostracization. But that is a price I am glad to pay for my liberty.

[–]Endorsed Contributorredpillbanana 6 points7 points  (0 children)

White knights come in many forms, unfortunately.

[–]TRP VanguardWhisper 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Freedom comes at the cost of ostracization. But that is a price I am glad to pay for my liberty.

Well put, although the word you are looking for is "ostracism".

[–]Endorsed Contributorredpillbanana 33 points34 points  (8 children)

Regarding marriage and the "status ladder", I wrote this a while back:

I don't think that it is necessary to be married in order to be a leader. I'd say that marriage is necessary if you're being chosen vs doing your own thing.

Most Fortune 500 CEOs are chosen, but there are plenty of CEOs who have started their own company and have remained single. Felix Dennis comes to mind. Bill Gates also didn't marry until well after he had become a billionaire.

Politicians, military officers, managers, etc - all these people are chosen by other people, so appearance is important. In fields that are meritocracies, such as starting a business, sports/competition, instruction, engineering, etc, where social appearances are not as important, you can be a bachelor and do fine.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (7 children)

The only discussion on marriage was a single younger mod who still married his high school sweetheart, telling people to "sprinkle more alpha on it"

The overwhelming majority are on task.

[–]TRP VanguardWhisper 63 points64 points  (12 children)

What I find particularly interesting is how, time and again, whenever someone wishes to externally influence TRP, they will talk about evil, but when get angry, and cease trying to steer and instead try to discredit, they focus on accusations of weakness.

This demonstrates that everyone really knows the truth... that it is weakness, not evil, which is the unforgivable sin in men.

When someone calls you "evil", especially when what they have is a caricature of your behaviour, it can be tempting to engage with them and attempt to correct their impression. But this is simply bait... "make this concession and we will cease regarding you as evil... oh, and also this one. And this one. And this other little thing."

Sooner or later, you will deny them some concession they want, and the narrative switches from attempting to bait to attempting to discredit.

Never make any concession to anyone who attempts to characterize you, rather than persuade you.

[–]bluecantuesday 6 points7 points  (2 children)

What I find particularly interesting is how, time and again, whenever someone wishes to externally influence TRP, they will talk about evil, but when get angry, and cease trying to steer and instead try to discredit, they focus on accusations of weakness.

Every woman's ultimate attack on TRP is "they're a bunch of losers who can't get laid," which they will and can never understand is the ultimate, undeniable proof that TRP is 100% correct about everything.

[–]TRP VanguardWhisper 18 points19 points  (1 child)

Correct.

But they think it's a slam-dunk case. Why? Because women invariably, universally believe that their vaginal moistness is a magic dowsing rod that inerrantly locates good genes and good character.

Therefore, once a loser, always a loser. Once couldn't get laid, always couldn't get laid.

This means that women who like TRP are forced to conclude that we were always pretty awesome dudes, but we just wanted even more control over our sex lives. And women who hate TRP are forced to conclude that we still aren't getting laid, it's all a con game, and all the field reports are fake.

Because anything else would force them to admit that their sexual urges are a simple rubric that can be beaten with a simple set of cheat codes. They can't handle that.

Men, on the other hand, have always known this about themselves. Symmetric facial bone structure, big eyes, the correct distribution of a little bit of body fat, and we're in love, or at least in something we can call love until our balls are empty.

Men confront their own shallowness every day. That's why the red pill is easier for us to swallow. Because "swallowing the red pill" is the admission that there are no great and noble souls, that everyone is made of the same selfish goo as everyone else. Very, very few women ever truly take the red pill, because very, very few women can look in the mirror and say "I am shallow. I am a basic bitch. I want the same simple, stupid stuff every other woman wants."

[–]RedMoonAscendant 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Why is this sitting all the way down here with only 4 up-votes??? Here. Have mine.

[–]∞ Mod | RP Vanguardbsutansalt 1 point2 points  (3 children)

Never make any concession to anyone who attempts to characterize you, rather than persuade you.

Words to live by. This is also true politically and I think why Trump is doing so well. He's never caved to the left's antics and in fact doubled down. That's received as a strength, staying by what one says, rather than kowtowing to the left's denigrations.

[–]Senior Contributor: "The Court Jester"GayLubeOil 25 points26 points  (12 children)

For those wishing to participate in PPD know this: I have Skyped several of their mods and it is definitely Cuck City over there.

If you take a hard line Red Pill stance one of their mods will get offended and report you.

Facts like:

  • 75% of lesbians are obese because they don't have men telling them what to do

  • Women are so concerned with what other women are wearing that they are incapable of male productivity

  • A person with a Y chromosome is a man

Are not tolerated over at purple pill.

Your time is better spent learning shoulder and hip mobility movements to improve your lifts.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Clicked the link in the "get offended" text. Fuck that fat chick is hideous. Legit hurts my eyes to look at.

[–]sir_wankalot_here 5 points6 points  (7 children)

Bro you should know better then most.

For those wishing to participate in PPD know this: I have Skyped several of their mods and it is definitely Cuck City over there.

Cucking is another RP strategy, if you are a woman. I have been saying this for ages, what is good for women is not good for men.

[–][deleted] 5 points5 points

[permanently deleted]

[–]TRP VanguardCyralea 44 points45 points  (5 children)

The dangling of blue-pill candy is a known persuasion technique in manipulation circles. You start off by presenting safe, agreeable statements and building trust, then slowly walk the individual to the place you want to take them. You play to people's instinctive biases. Play on people's inherent desires for fairness and equality, and to be seen as socially upstanding.

The presentation of a "Purple pill" works because it plays on these biases. It's truly insidious how easily it can take root. People think they're being reasonable, and think no less of themselves for taking the "softer" approach, even though they are acting against their own best interests.

Recognizing your own interests as being über alles, and being cognizant of what they truly are, not what others decide for you, is probably the most important starting point for any RP'er.

[–]Senior ContributorNightwingTRP 40 points41 points  (1 child)

The dangling of blue-pill candy is a known persuasion technique in manipulation circles. You start off by presenting safe, agreeable statements and building trust, then slowly walk the individual to the place you want to take them. You play to people's instinctive biases. Play on people's inherent desires for fairness and equality, and to be seen as socially upstanding.

This is exactly how political correctness went from "you shouldn't call black people niggers" to the modern nonsense of "you can't be racist against whites," and "don't call them coloured people, that's racist!" This shit doesn't happen overnight, it's happened over many years. Little by little, with seemingly good intentions, the overton window is shifted. Little by little.

Bloopers have a different set of base assumptions to me. Theirs is mostly based on the idea that words hurt. Mine are based on the idea that words only hurt if they reveal some kind of inner truth about the person... otherwise those words are irrelevant.

[–]2IVIaskerade 9 points10 points  (0 children)

and "don't call them coloured people, that's racist!"

"you should say 'people of colour' instead! That's not racist!"

[–]Endorsed ContributorThotwrecker 44 points45 points  (9 children)

I agree that RPW's issues are unavoidable. It's inevitable.

TRP seemed to really want to have this attitude of "TRP and RPW use the SAME knowledge and SAME ideological underpinnings, but TRP is a discussion on male sexual strategy and RPW on female strategy."

But while TRP focused on building a great product capable of attracting women (aka improving and building male SMV), it seems that RPW focuses on "how to get a great product" - aka how to get a high SMV guy.

But this is literally what we say women do. They do not want to build a great product (a high SMV woman capable of earning the man), they want to GET the great product. Women want to be taken up by a great guy, not be great themselves.

They are never going to discuss things like a 6 month monk mode plan to cut bodyfat, put on muscle in choice areas, improve skincare, and so on like we do.

Can we really be surprised that a bunch of women cooked up a strawman conception of this "alpha male who wants to marry an average woman" and they now discuss how to game this fantasy creature into commitment? This is what women do, this is their heroin, their Christian Grey. They want to believe in this mythical guy who is simultaneously high value and has options, has testosterone in abundance, yet simultaneously wants to emotionally and monogamously bond with their basic ass.

What did we expect? That because these women were mentally independent enough to not be scared away immediately by the bogeyname "Red Pill" that they were exceptions? As RPS says, AWALT.

I would even go so far as to say the fact if we ever get to the point where a sizable population of women can stomach and mentally entertain TRP without freaking out, then means we've become a bunch of soft, tone-policed pussies. TRP has to be inherently unpalatable to women and bloopies, because if it's not, then we've compromised our message and we're more watered down than Drake's new album.

Eager to see what's in store for TRP over the next few years. Can TRP with its mod leadership beat the "as subreddits grow, they turn to shit" syndrome? As long as the banhammers stay bloody and we report moralfags, trolls, and tone-policers, I hope so.

[–]Senior Contributoradam-l 13 points14 points  (2 children)

RPS writes

our end goal is ... to satisfy our own imperatives. That others' imperatives may be served along the way is incidental.

This, a million times.

For an individual man, being self-centered and even selfish is the way out of the victimizing mainstream social expectations.

For a collective of men, "man-centrism", not "objectivity" neither "the interest of society" (or, the upholding of "western culture", as it is sometimes put in here) is the way forward, is the antidote to gynocentrism. Any focusing on keeping women happy is in vain. Focus on having the men happy, and voila, women are happy as well - even though their control-freak component is on constant alert.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

The thing is though, male and female sexual strategies cannot cooperate. In order for one to work properly, the other must fail. The war of the sexes is forever.

[–]alvlear 9 points10 points  (3 children)

Women want to be taken up by a great guy, not be great themselves.

This is it. This is what really pisses me off. How can anyone want to marry such a disgusting creature. I spend all day hustling, scheming, trying to carve out what's mine on the planet. And this creature wants to come and just latch itself onto me. That is very disgusting.

Honestly, I do not know how you guys do it. Especially you, Thotwrecker. How do you have so much sex? Do you really find so many women attractive?

Periodically, hormones attack me, and I find a woman's physique attractive. However, when I call her over I am viscerally repulsed by her mediocre and pathetic consciousness. At this point, I am completely turned off, and there is no way I can have sex with the woman. And she is typically physically stunning. At times, I will play her along and get her somewhat invested so that certain chemicals in her brain create the illusion that she is intensely attracted to me. I then summarily get rid of her, because I am still not attracted to her. This is usually as far as I go though. I am practically a volcel.

I am an outlier, and my interests are rarely discussed on this sub. I am attracted to highly intelligent, strong, and powerful women. This is heresy to most men. My predilection is of course a bizarre case of projection, which is probably why for the life of me I can't find such a woman. Truthfully, I do not care for this that much. But then the hormones attack me, and I call over another disgusting specimen.

[–]Endorsed ContributorThotwrecker 16 points17 points  (1 child)

All I can say is if you're looking for intellectual stimulation or a kindred spirit from a woman, you're fucking up big time. See, I provide enough intellectual stimulation for the both of us; I don't need her to be smart, I got that base covered. Just like I don't need her to have the same interests as me; I already HAVE those interests and qualities - the fuck do I need her to provide them for?

Why are you attracted to highly intelligent strong and powerful women? Do you not provide enough power? Enough strength? That needs to come from your nutsack, you need to rewire yourself to stop wanting that in a woman.

You sound like a "smart guy" and I think you have a little bit of that syndrome where you're thinking "ugh I'm so disappointed by how morally and intellectually vacuous everyone is around me!"

Just snap out of it, some people are people. Most men will screw you over for money or pussy, most women will screw you over a superior guy, and latch onto you parasitically until that moment comes. That's why you don't marry them. You use 90% of hot girls for casual ONS. Maybe 9% make the "FWB" cut. And that 1% is where you can think of LTR as a possibility.

So with those stats, you have to fuck your way through 99 to get to the 1. That ain't so bad dude, just soldier on and keep plowing through until you find gold. Or don't - that is a fair option too, but you cannot hamster about it.

[–]alvlear 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I appreciate the response.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thottie, I agree 100%. TRP is not and will never be , for women. Don't even understand the reason RPW exists. TRP should also never soften itself to comfort women. Women are pretty shit, and exist for reproduction. An unfortunate truth. Why give redpill knowledge to s creature like that?

Also, god you're right. Views was fuckin terrible. I liked like maaaybe 5 songs.

[–]1mr_nate_ 36 points37 points  (0 children)

Nice to see us getting back on track.

[–]DexterousRichard 11 points12 points  (1 child)

Epic epic epic post.

This is a manual in countering Marxist infiltration of organizations. They dilute the boundaries, and attempt to chip away little by little at the attitude and positions of a culture, until like a frog boiling in slowly heating water, the core of the culture is coopted.

Just say no.

[–]Chrience 20 points21 points  (13 children)

Thank you for this post. I've been seeing a lot of this 'purple pill' propaganda recently. One particular example is that there are some guys here telling you you should marry, or else you're a 'genetic dead end'. That 'society will crumble' if guys like us don't reproduce, and that 'getting married ensures the best environment for kids' (i'd say it doesn't, because getting married actually incentivises the wife to leave through the femcentric divorce laws, take the kids and poison their minds against the father). Watch out for these lies particularly, they're trying to drive men to get married through shame.

With a life long decision like getting married, men should think about it with a clear mind, without any societal pressure or emotional manipulation from the media, friends and LTRs nearing their 30s. When you do, you'll realise, with enough uncensored information about sexual dynamics and the state of women today, that it's a bad choice for men. It's why even guys who know nothing about the red pill have gone MGTOW in increasing numbers.

Another example of all this manipulation is from the 'rape fugee' crisis. After women were being beaten, raped and threatened in places like Colonge, there was a feminist Rollo wrote an article about who was saying men needed to reclaim their masculinity and fight for their country against the Muslim 'invaders'. Seems fine enough, except that with a closer look, what she said was essentially 'man up', another Feminine shaming attempt to get men to serve women's own selfish, solipsistic interests.

The key to keeping frame is to focus on your own goals, and look at everything through this lens, from conversations to events, to others body language. Make sure your decisions are not being emotionally driven by someone else.

[–]Endorsed Contributorredpillbanana 14 points15 points  (9 children)

One particular example is that there are some guys here telling you you should marry, or else you're a 'genetic dead end'.

As I've mentioned before, Richard Dawkins had the last word on this in his book The Selfish Gene:

But as each generation passes, the contribution of your genes is halved. It does not take long to reach negligible proportions. Our genes may be immortal but the collection of genes that is any one of us is bound to crumble away. Elizabeth II is a direct descendant of William the Conqueror. Yet it is quite probable that she bears not a single one of the old king’s genes. We should not seek immortality in reproduction.

(Note this was written before the DNA testing on Richard III's skeleton revealed infidelity in the royal lineage.)

There are 32 generations between William the Conqueror and Elizabeth II so you can do the math.

[–]Endorsed ContributorUrsusG 7 points8 points  (5 children)

And if you look at it broadly enough, we share many genes with everything that lives. Not just other people, not just other hominids, not even all other mammals, but with literally everything, including (redpill) bananas.

So if you're concerned with immortality on behalf of your genes, then worry not, their survival is assured through presence in literally every life form on this planet.

[–]Endorsed Contributorredpillbanana 3 points4 points  (3 children)

So if you're concerned with immortality on behalf of your genes, then worry not, their survival is assured through presence in literally every life form on this planet.

That's a great point. And if humans die out then some other species might eventually take our place.

My bet is on the red pill bananas.

[–]2IVIaskerade 3 points4 points  (1 child)

if humans die out then some other species might eventually take our place.

It's going to be cats, the only species to universally possess Dark Triad traits.

[–]Endorsed Contributorredpillbanana 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Not a bad prediction.

There's a book called The World Without Us which talks about the development of the earth after humans are extinct. The author predicts that cats will do very well because they are such good predators.

[–]fasthandssam 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is an interesting point that I hadn't considered until you guys pointed it out. Another way one can think of it is this: genes are information, and in a significant way the protection and replication of genes is a protection and replication of information.

So perhaps a better way to pursue "immortality" would be to generate new information, new ideas. Create art or music or come up with an invention or write a book. This may even be a better way of pursuing the higher calling of a man's life (as opposed to having offspring) because 1. The information passed on would have higher fidelity 2. You have a much larger amount of choice and control regarding what ideas you'd like to express.

This is an interesting topic, because I think the innate desire to "pass on" something in a meaningful way is a big motivator for men. But maybe it is time for us to stop prioritizing genetic information and instead focus on higher creative forces. I think this deserves further consideration...

[–]1ToSeeAndToHear 5 points6 points  (1 child)

This is a fallacy - there is no reason to count how much someone has maintained their genes after 32 generations by how much of their genetics exists in one of their descendants, you ought to count it by measuring how much exists in all their descendants.

That said, the point is well made that your descendants may not be anything like you, and seeking immortality in them is a silly thing.

[–]1WeedDaddy 3 points4 points  (1 child)

On the other hand, "Focus on yourself", "you are the only person you can control" etc is solipsistic or myopic at best. If you let the world around you burn, you have to live in ruins.

fight for their country against the Muslim 'invaders'. Seems fine enough, except that with a closer look, what she said was essentially 'man up'

In this situation male and female interest can unite. Men offer protection and women reward it with sex. A more manly proposition than dolling yourself up with tattoos and trendy threads in order to get sex.

It's not manly to watch from the sidelines while outsiders feast on your women. If you don't own your nation's women, they will. Women will submit to the strongest group of males in the environment.

There's a small amount of attractive women in the world and men from all over the world are after them.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

On the other hand, "Focus on yourself", "you are the only person you can control" etc is solipsistic or myopic at best. If you let the world around you burn,

This is why I've been focusing on the military mindset. Master self discipline and look after your buddies first (they'll be looking out for you too). Lots of good red pill knowledge if you look at what the military does.

[–]Endorsed Contributorredpillbanana 18 points19 points  (5 children)

Thank you for keeping the concern trolls and tone police at bay.

It is well-known that censorship of any form stifles creativity, innovation, and education. The people who oppose us the most happen to be the people who rely on censorship, both by law and via social shaming (Overton window), to advance their agenda. They rely on authority to promote their policies because free debate would expose their ideas as flawed and self-serving. If you have any doubt about the fact that they want our discussions made illegal, take a look at what happened to Gregory Alan Elliot.

Censorship leads to stupidity. If you ever debate our opponents, you'll see responses that follow this pattern: "Wow...just wow, it is inconceivable that you believe something so obviously wrong. I can't even imagine it. You're so far gone that it's not even worth talking to you." They can't wrap their minds around the simplest ideas because they buy into the censorship and they are thought-policing themselves. This is censorship in action, making people unable to comprehend ideas that are not allowed. If you want to see a severe case of censorship leading to stupidity, look at what is happening in Sweden or the UK.

RPS is right in that tone-policing is the first step in curbing freedom of speech and gaining control of the narrative. The hypocrisy in all this is that our opponents would be the first ones to cry about tone-policing and yet they are happy to police our tone. To that, I say: fuck the fucking fuckers.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (3 children)

TRP Goals:

- Build the Wall COMPLETE

- Build the Wall 10 Feet higher** COMPLETE**

  • Maintain the Wall IN PROGRESS

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 5 points6 points  (2 children)

It's funny, I hadn't realized it until after this post, but a few people PM'd me accusing me of stealing Trump's strategy.

You gotta hand it to him, it's not a bad idea... lol

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (1 child)

but a few people PM'd me accusing me of stealing Trump's strategy.

Dafuq? Were they threatening to tell on you? What were they hoping would happen?

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

They thought they were trolling. But I mean, I like Trump!

[–]Endorsed ContributorBluepillProfessor 30 points31 points  (4 children)

An exceptional post RPS. Thanks for clarifying a lot. As one of the louder mod voices on Married Red Pill let me respond. The governing model of TRP is in the hands of a single executive with essentially full power. ON MRP the governing model is an oligarchy or a council of Captains.

We have worked hard to assemble an all-star moderation panel on MRP that includes Archwinger, Ianironwood, and a group of really smart, Red Pill guys. I have often noted that we have 2 lawyer's a couple PhD's, a couple of guys with Master's degrees, and another guy working on his MBA on our moderation panel. We also have a manosphere icon, a senior endorsed contributor and an endorsed contributor on TRP in the mod panel. As an oligarchy, my vote is the same as all the other mods so changing direction and/or deciding on things like official policy is almost impossible. However, this has the advantage of moving more slowly without sudden lurches, and, sudden or arbitrary decisions that can be made when a single person is in charge.

The reason I pushed this model early on was because MRP is about self-improvement but it is also about "saving" the existing marriage if possible. Just HOW we go about doing that is not straightforward. Different people have different ideas and we (I) wanted a diversity of opinions to be expressed. Some guys need to hear the hard core red guy reading them the riot act. Some guys need to hear the more compassionate...you can make it work if you do this version of advice. Most guys just need a kick in the ass and a reminder that their wife is not a special snowflake.

So...MRP is deliberately set up as a debate sub. We are NOT debating "Red Pill praexology but we ARE debating how to fit that praexology into married life and into our individual marriages. Since we are not exactly sure how exactly to do that, and since men need different types of advice at different times in the unplugging process (or they will blow the fuck out of their marriages for sure) we (I) think we needed a broader diversity of responses- all the way from the purple pill Athol Kay pro marriage approach to the hard core red women aint nothing but tricks and hoes approach.

Thus:

I have been confronted by many members there simply defending marriage as a good decision for a man in western culture, one of whom was a moderator whose post read "knowing what I know now, I would get married all over again."

I don't think you can say "many members" but there is no doubt a minority who argue that marriage is still a good thing, including a recent addition to the moderation team on MRP, our good friend /u/thefamilyalpha (TFA) who has his own related blog. I am pretty sure he would be the first to say he is not really "Red Pill" or at least that his philosophy transcends Red Pill and guess what? He is right!

Red Pill is a narrow sexual strategy and life improvement model and is not even a full fledged philosophy. "Red Pill guys" range from Level 4 MGTOW's (who will assure you that they and they alone are the one true Red Pillers) to (most) Married Red Pill guys, a few of which will claim that marriage CAN work and you know what? They are right!

Marriage CAN work and we can show you on Married Red Pill how to make it work, probably. Except like I always say, you CAN survive falling 110 stories down an elevator shaft in the World Trade Center- but that doesn't mean it would have been a good idea to be on the observation deck at 8:45 a.m. on 9-11.

Those who don't get married simply "aren't alpha enough to survive a marriage.

Which is exactly why I and so many oppose this view. However, it is a balance between spurring men to self improvement as a conduit to improving the marriage and their lives, and truly blaming the victim. I get very angry when I see men blamed because their marriage blew up but there is also a lot of truth in it. Most marriages fail when men fail shit tests and buckle under the weight of social pressure and become "Beta." So challenging a man who is still married to Alpha up is not blaming the victim. It is giving the guy with the power to change things a kick in the ass.

[–]TheRationalMale.comRollo-Tomassi 8 points9 points  (1 child)

Well said. I only have this to add:

Among the "border" RP groups it should be acknowledged that in the future you will see many, many more, groups who were formerly counted among TRP's adamant opposition who will adopt the 'Red Pill' monicker for whatever their pet issues are.

You will see A Voice for Men and the MRAs readily embrace branding themselves as 'Red Pill' and particularly once their feminist produced men's rights documentary film is released this fall.

This should be a lesson for TRP; the 'Red Pill' name has brand value. This is why you'll see it leveraged by groups with a political, racial or social agendas who have no association with, or were actively hostile to, the Red Pill as we've collectivized and developed it.

You will see, Purple Pill life coaches, dating coaches, amateur marriage counselors, Red Pill women's blogs all adopt the aspects of TRP that flatter their ego-investments and their revenue models. The will happily lay claim to the Red Pill tenets that compliment their audiences, but heap scorn on the uglier, but no less true aspects that contradict their self-serving bullshit.

You will see, others who've disdained TRP as being a group of "whiners" and made efforts to do exactly this same pick & pull from Red Pill awareness as they attempt to create niche' groups (Neomasculinity) come right back to TRP when "The Red Pill" name serves their PR efforts better than being separated from it. And they'll tell everyone that they were always the "real" TRP when they do.

You will see efforts from even the most unlikely opponents of TRP praxeology (Religion, Trad-Cons, anti-feminists, the Blue Pill sub) make attempts to sanitize TRP to fit their uses.

Way back when I started The Rational Male I wrote 2 posts warning of exactly what we're seeing today:

Could a Man Have Written This? and Sanitizing the Imperative

These are some things to remember when you see "The Red Pill" attached to entirely unrelated or bastardized attempts to adopt the label.

[–]TRP VanguardArchwinger 4 points5 points  (0 children)

This goes hand in hand with people who insist that "Red Pill" and the Red Pill subreddit are radically different things.

"We're real Red Pill, not like those whining losers on Reddit!"

"Red Pill is a general manosphere/relationship thing. Completely different from TRP, which is a bunch of neckbeard woman-haters!"

This subreddit catapulted "Red Pill" from a Matrix cliche into a viewpoint on inter-sex relationships parroted across the internet, and once the brand was successful, everyone else jumped on to piggy-back on the coattails of the ideology...while fervently distancing themselves from the "internet losers" who made the brand what it is.

Now, any idiot with even slightly conservative advice regarding relationships who owns a blog calls him/herself Red Pill.

[–]TheVictor333 19 points20 points  (4 children)

The funny part is that these "ex-red pill women" will always and inevitably be attracted to men with red pill alpha traits no matter how much they denounce it. It's like an extreme form of cognitive dissonance.

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 17 points18 points  (3 children)

They are so clueless about how TRP works, that they actually believe their men in real life to be significantly different than the type of man that leaves here into the world.

[–]2IVIaskerade 4 points5 points  (2 children)

I love their hamstering about how their men are different because they "don't know about TRP, but are masculine."

[–]TRPShill 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I was just about to mention something similar to this. They always "just know" that he doesn't know about TRP. I've seen that shit said so many times.

[–]idgaf- 13 points14 points  (2 children)

Even after TRP I held onto the idea of marriage being good for a while, for all the reasons you described.

But looking closely at the contract itself, it quickly started to unravel. It is all downside risk and no upside. I'm still of the opinion that an LTR with kids is fine if that's what the man decides with his life. But I will never involve the government between us.

  • It adds cash incentive for the woman to leave, which reduces her incentive to work through tough times.

  • It only adds a minor tax advantage in certain income situations (where she doesn't work).

  • It's very expensive to get a divorce.

  • A marriage that does work could work just as well without the government.

The rare exception is marrying a rich woman. Even then no amount of money is really worth your freedom.

[–]Endorsed ContributorRedBigMan 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yeah and it's funny because you only get a tax advantage when she doesn't work... and when she doesn't work odds are much higher she'll be given alimony when she does leave so damned if she does, damned if she doesn't.

[–]Red_Faust 12 points13 points  (7 children)

IMO releasing the anger is helpful.

Releasing the anger is "improvement for self".

The fact that your antagonists recommend something doesn't need to mean it's not a good thing. But the use for releasing the anger is not to become more politically acceptable to the outside world. No need for that shit. No, the real use is for oneself: accepting reality and enjoying it as it is.

The anger that stems from having being deceived about the nature of women and relationships fades when you learn to use your new knowledge for your benefit.

The anger that comes out from women not being what you think they should be fades when you accept that women are how they are and it's useless to try and change them, so you might as well enjoy them.

I revelled and savored my anger for a good couple of years when I started opening up to the nature of women and relationships.

Then, as I started getting better and better results, the anger gradually faded as I became aware of my newfound powers.

Nowadays I love women for what they are. Of course I'll never go back to the blue pill worldview, nor would I enter any agreemen based on that worldview (like marriage).

I accept women as they are. I have no anger (that I'm consciously aware of) agains them as a group. As long as I don't forget how they really are, and I behave accordingly, that makes me happy. I'd rather be happy than bitter.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (5 children)

Fully with you. I'm fine with guys here expressing anger at women and society (and often their past selves). God knows, I have written enough angry words myself. To me though, I draw the line at exchanging one fantasy for another. The Red Pill analogy is waking up to see the world as it really is, not diving into something equally divorced from reality.

Case in point is guys saying that women are 'evil' or 'incapable of feeling love'. I don't hold women in high regard anymore, I have much higher regard for men, but much of what we see as 'evil' is women following their own subconscious and evolutionarily advantageous sexual strategy. It is at odds with ours, and it makes them manipulative so we have to be on our guard, but following a sexual strategy is not evil, otherwise TRP is evil too.

Similarly, 'women are incapable of love' I heard recently. I guess people skip over reading the sidebar, because it is right there, and what Rollo actually said was,

Iron Rule of Tomassi #6 Women are utterly incapable of loving a man in the way that a man expects to be loved.

That is something rather different. If women were actually incapable of loving at all, first I wouldn't see the point of having a sexual strategy. If women are evil and cannot love, go full MGTOW. But in fact women will do anything for what they perceive as an Alpha. I don't really count myself as one, yet even I have been astonished in the past at what a woman was prepared to do for me. The whole 'alpha widow' idea is predicated on women falling deeply in love with someone they see as much above them, to the extent that they never get past it emotionally. Hypergamy itself is based on this. The neurochemical basis of 'being in love' is a proximate causation that makes women attempt pair bonding and thus pass on their genes.

So, to me, saying things like 'women are evil and incapable of love' is just another fantasy, the opposite of the blue pill one, but still a fantasy, and fantasies don't help you being affective in the world. However, as a stage at least it is useful in disinfecting the mind from all the BP garbage that filled it for so long!

[–]3savoryprunes 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Thank you for this perspective. I hadn't quite come to the realization about some of our members that they have overcorrected by adopting an anti-bluepill fantasy. This will help in a post I'm working on.

I'm MGTOW but I'm 39yo and I have the experience to know that this is the right choice for me. I've been in ltrs. I've spun plates. I've had ons. I'm genuinely an introvert who just doesn't have the patience for people - especially women.

Too many of these youngsters overreact and declare themselves MGTOW without the experience to make an informed choice.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Look forward to reading it. The great insight from Rollo's rule was not that women are worthless, or that they cannot love at all, but finally realizing what it is that women fall in love with. That whole men>women>children>pets thing. A man may think that a woman is a hopeless dork, not understanding much, not in any sense his equal, yet love her anyway, just as parents love young children even though they are far less in abilities both mental and physical. That doesn't work for women at all, her love is grounded in respect and admiration, her need to 'look up' to you. That was one of the cornerstones of TRP for me. And from it we get the whole 'improve yourself' mantra, because you have to be superior to her.

So I am fine with men thinking they are superior to women and 'looking down' on them to some degree. They are not equal, and a partnership of equals doesn't work because the woman loses respect and gets turned off. The feminist/BP-endorsed 'marriage of equals' doesn't work because of women, not because of men. But seeing them as not equal is not the same as seeing them as uttterly worthless or evil. If they were that, no point in engaging with them at all. Instead of a 'sexual strategy' TRP would be a 'avoid women' strategy. But I'm fairly tolerant of when it goes beyond just 'inferior to us in many respects' because it acts as an antidote to the feminist conditioning we are constantly bombarded with. It isn't a useful end state, however.

[–]2IVIaskerade 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Without anger, I'd never have hit the 1RM that I hold. Anger, controlled and released, is the most powerful driving force in the world.

[–]THE_StrongBoy 12 points13 points  (1 child)

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[–]sir_wankalot_here 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Red pill ideas aren't for women anyway, and I would rather not have us be affiliated with them at that point. The situation reminds me of a plate who tries to upgrade herself in status.

They have their own RP sub, itts called XX

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I never really understood the whole concept behind red pill women.

One of the tenets of TRP is that men and women have a somewhat adversarial sexual dynamic.

In short a woman's goals aren't the same as a mans.

[–][deleted] 12 points12 points

[permanently deleted]

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I never followed the RPW sub but what you say is interesting.

I always pictured "red pill theory" as the "reality of human sexual dynamics" so I naturally imagined RPW would be helping women to fulfill their imperative: how to get your AF and your BB.

I never imagined RPW would be a sub on how to change the very nature of women (reduce hypergamy?) just in order to help men fulfill their sexual strategy.

[–]sir_wankalot_here 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Because you are stupid.

Then as you said, the promotion of marriage (and how to secure it) became one of their core tenets. It became less about how women can improve themselves (reduce hypergamy, shit-testing, etc) and more and more about how to lock-down an alpha. "Girl game" became less about being pleasant, charming, and interested, but more about how to play games over TXT (ignoring that RP tells men to TXT only for logistics), how to attention whore, fish for validation, get him to chase you, and many other things that are red-flags for RP men.

These are the ideal RP strategies for women. Think about it.

[–]TRP VanguardArchwinger 11 points12 points  (2 children)

So essentially, censoring the censorship?

Part of what I like about TRP is that you have a bunch of guys talking and figuring shit out. Also, shitting on women is pretty fun.

There's not a lot of direct censorship. If a guy legitimately (e.g., not troll) shits out some half-blue-half-purple sanitized viewpoint, people point out the 500 ways he's wrong and tell him to go find his balls. His shit gets downvoted so it's barely even visible. Life goes on.

Nobody rushes to delete shit because it's not official Red Pill doctrine. People see shit, it's wrong, they downvote, they respond, life goes on.

If you head over to Menslib, their rule is that everything comes from a feminist lens. They start with the proviso that feminism is right and awesome about everything, and every post and every comment comes from a feminist viewpoint.

Is that us now? Just replace feminist with Red Pill?

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Is that us now? Just replace feminist with Red Pill?

No, nothing has changed about our moderating policy. This has been our policy since day one.

[–]RedMoonAscendant 5 points6 points  (0 children)

There is nothing wrong with an echo chamber. I don't know why people get so up in arms about it.

Censorship of viewpoints that question the basic tenets of your echo chamber is completely fine. Here, on XX, and on PPD.

If everyone is allowed to question the basic tenets of the echo chamber, then it cannot build on its foundation - the entire discussion is always chaos and confusion. It's fine to let XX and PPD and TRP build their respective castles on their respective foundations.

When the storm comes, we will see which castle is left standing, and the refugees will come to the strong castle.

[–]1james-watson 7 points8 points  (1 child)

I have been in these circles for a long time, long before the RP sub (or reddit itself) existed.

This place is an excellent forum for conversation, but also a perfect lab experiment which demonstrates exactly what happens when you allow infiltration by the enemy to slowly turn your ranks against you.

Make no mistake, this is full out war. The SJW crowd are currently reigning supreme, and we are a tiny, rebellious faction spouting heresy.

Don't think so? Try punching a woman. Try going through family court. Try committing the same crime as a woman, and see who gets harsher sentencing. Try accusing a woman of sexual assault, and then let her do the same to you. There differences will speak volumes.

The Feminist Imperative reigns supreme. We are dissidents, and we will be hunted.

In my opinion, the entire concept of PPD and RPW subs are incompatible with RP philosophy. Women will NEVER be redpill. It is against their interests. RP is male strategy, which benefits men and women materially, psychologically and socially. Yet the female's inherent, biological desire for dualistic mating (AF/BB) and cuckoldry will forever be at odds with men, who will never tolerate it. As such, it is vain to attempt to convince females that RP is good for them, for they will be losing their ability to cuckold men. Of course they will be happier in the long run, but the child rarely understands what is good for her until it is too late.

That being said, it is good to corral females into a separate sub so they don't dilute the conversation here. All things considered, the mods are doing an excellent job. Keep up the fight my brothers, for the war has just begun, and the Imperative is more formidable than most can ever imagine.

[–]2IVIaskerade 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I like going on PPD to bounce ideas off the bloopers. If it really riles them up, I've usually hit on something.

[–]nevva_Again 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Interestingly - as a side note- the minute the ex-RPW mods were scorned, their behaviors and attitudes switched off like a lightswitch, all the work and effort put into the sub in the past between myself and them was suddenly null and void. And they began their propaganda campaign against the RPW and TRP subs (in places like PPD and MRP as well as TBP), assuming the roles of blue pillers almost immediately. Suddenly, their view on TRP had always been negative, we had always been chumps, TRP has always been wrong.

The drama the old mods created is what destroyed my last blue-pill fantasy of NAWALT. Their behaviour was the clearest manifestation of AWALT and the light-switch effect I've ever seen.

It shocked me to see how these ''seemingly self-aware women'' turned on redpillschool and TRP, planned their mutiny, deleted a lot of quality posts, created a new RPW, and started to troll the old RPW sub.

It was funny to see RPW mods try to divorce rape redpillschool.

I'm sure I'll write up a post in more detail about this soon.

Please do.

I've been waiting to hear the full story.

[–]Endorsed ContributorUrsusG 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Suddenly, their view on TRP had always been negative, we had always been chumps, TRP has always been wrong.

We've always been at war with Eastasia

+1

[–]AgisIII 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Perfect

[–]Endorsed Contributorbalalasaurus 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I'll admit to being guilty of tone policing myself. As I spend most of my time on asktrp, a lot of the times I find myself having to convince people of TRP.

No longer.

TRP speaks for itself. It needs no convincing. You either swallow it or you don't. Those who truly want to make the change will have to work for it the same way the rest of us did. Steel is forged in fire.

[–]NeoreactionSafe 3 points4 points  (0 children)

About marriage:

I imagine myself making a similar face reading about somebody bragging about surviving a game of russian roulette, trying to convince others it's a game of skill and that the bullets in the chamber are reserved only for those not strong enough to win.

The Child Support Laws are the true hardcore evil in our world not so much the marriage which only tacks on additional penalties.

Child Support was illegal up until 1950 because it was correctly seen as a type of male slavery by English Law. The fact that they passed such laws shows how badly the men of that time misjudged the long term outcome.

Counter Argument

There is a counter argument that since the legal situation is so bad if you have children then you ought to take seriously the role of being the masculine polarity father figure from the very beginning. The role of Plate spinner is essentially abdicating the power over a woman and keeping yourself uninvolved and distant. That's great until you get that brain dead slut pregnant even if you aren't married because all of a sudden the full weight of the Child Support Laws comes crashing down on you.

If you are Plate spinning and not wrapping it up every time you are playing russian roulette with Child Support Laws even if you don't marry.

Child Support Laws are worse than the marriage additions for most men.

In most cases a marriage will not make things much worse.

 

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (24 children)

Other subs worthy of mention unfortunately include the Married Red Pill sub, which despite its efforts to give a safe haven to men who married while plugged in, has devolved into an exercise in rationalizing why it was a good idea to begin with. Despite my repeated attempts to help them steer into the right direction, I have been confronted by many members there simply defending marriage as a good decision for a man in western culture, one of whom was a moderator whose post read "knowing what I know now, I would get married all over again."

MRP is doing just fine. If two posters are enough to get your panties in a bunch, than I don't know what to tell you.

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 8 points9 points  (16 children)

It was more than two users.

It was quite a large number of users whose goal it was to take a collective shit on TRP users. The moderator who was pro marriage was the straw that broke the camel's back.

You know I have respect for you stone.

[–]Endorsed Contributorbogeyd6 5 points6 points  (14 children)

I seriously doubt that there so many people shitting over trp users that it caused you to become enraged. You spoke to no one through the mod mail. You endorsed /u/bluepillprofessor banned /u/uemcgill. This sounds more like you took a few snapshots and formed a bad opinion off bad evidence. You gave us mods at mrp no information to rectify the situation and you hamstered that you can accuse MRP of border erosion.

In another note you banned me on the irc channel just because I was from mrp. Blind assumptions are ridiculous.

[–]IRC Mod-Anteros- 4 points5 points  (8 children)

You were banned for this:

[2016-04-29 19:55:47] <bogeyd6> lots of faggots here

Not because you are from MRP. We do not automatically ban MRP users unless they try trolling like you did. For more info on how to act, check out this page which was sent to you repeatedly instead of making things up on reddit.

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I didn't ban you or anybody from IRC, we have a team of other mods that might have.

I have stopped in MRP a few times and found that the discussion was pretty evenly split between those with a good red pill head on their shoulders and those who are absolutely blue pill. Not once, mind you, I've been stopping in quite a bit lately.

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 1 point2 points  (3 children)

You gave us mods at mrp no information to rectify the situation and you hamstered that you can accuse MRP of border erosion.

I did contact BPP regarding the state of things, and mentioned I'd be reviewing the content to see if we could consider putting it in our sidebar.

I was offered a moderator position - I think BPP did- and I didn't think I'd be a good fit with the moderating policy there so I declined.

I think there's enormous value on your sub that is being made rancid by the moderator decision to entertain trolling, and witch hunts, rather than enforcing that the threads stay on topic.

Some of the guys there don't like me, I get it. But they haven't given me one ounce of rational argument, they're just trolling. In my house, we remove the riff raff.

[–]Endorsed Contributorbogeyd6 2 points3 points  (2 children)

The point is moot and the actions are done. MRP Flair on TRP is a good idea as stated previously. Instead of trashing the sub on TRP, I would have preferred that we made a go at this together. You are convinced that only your TRP endorsed users are capable of helping marriages and somehow /u/Adderallabuse with a 10 day account factored into being help to someone make a go out of the life they already fucked up. Time will tell if your people can make the transition and pivot on the synergies of family life and single life.

Good luck, and I sincerely hope that your MRP flair actually helps family men get their shit together, unplugged, and their lives back on track.

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

somehow /u/Adderallabuse [+3] with a 10 day account factored into being help to someone make a go out of the life they already fucked up.

I'm sure by now people must have understood we have a policy whereby ECs who contact mods before they delete their old accounts can get their flair back on their new account. We don't speak about who they are for anonymity's sake, obviously if they deleted an account, there's a reason for it.

Instead of trashing the sub on TRP, I would have preferred that we made a go at this together.

I really wish there had been more working together too. I did try to reach out, but the general attitude over there really, really wasn't conducive to my goals: helping men. I know there are some members there who are for helping men. And they're here right now having a calm, rational conversation with me. And I appreciate that.

There are some quality posters on MRP who I do not mean to trash. But the trolling that's happening even now tells me that the sub itself was never up to par for our side bar.

Good luck, and I sincerely hope that your MRP flair actually helps family men get their shit together, unplugged, and their lives back on track.

Thank you. For the good of men, I do hope you contribute.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Damn it! Well, so much for that rant lol.

Either way, it's a fair point, but I'm not getting lumped with the purple circle jerk, or the blues. Those two don't do shit.

[–]Squeezymypenisy 2 points3 points  (4 children)

Its useful for LTR examples from what I have found. For single examples I use this place. I never much cared for the theories or why anything was the way it was. It is what is, now where is the profit. A few more field reports would be cool, maybe some more of those BP examples to laugh at.

[–]Endorsed Contributorbogeyd6 12 points13 points  (29 children)

Assigning MRP a reputation based off a handful of people is probably not the best way to handle it. Following that line of logic I could say TRP is filled with angsty teens looking to get laid... Generalizations are not our friends.

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 10 points11 points  (28 children)

Assigning MRP a reputation based off a handful of people is probably not the best way to handle it.

Based on the behaviors of a moderator who is tasked with steering the discussion.

[–]Endorsed Contributorbogeyd6 2 points3 points  (26 children)

Let's hope that one person doesn't define MRP.

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 8 points9 points  (6 children)

No hope needed. LTR and Marriage are on topic for TRP. We're going to be revamping our flairs specifically for this.

[–]Endorsed ContributorMentORPHEUS 8 points9 points  (3 children)

LTR and Marriage are on topic for TRP. We're going to be revamping our flairs specifically for this.

This is a good development. For its faults, MRP has a good shipping product for men who unplug while married. TRP has some good writers on the subject too, but admit it, when a married guy wanders in here, the majority of responses heap scorn and insults upon him, and actionable advice is buried or not mentioned.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (2 children)

It's a great one. Remember, the OMG are pretty much the average guy in here, or former alpha, who has lost his way, he's not starting from 0, he's starting from -10.

It's been said from the start. MRP isn't pro marriage, it's anti divorce rape. And since the only control you have is over self, than that's where we shall focus.

[–]2IVIaskerade 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I've always seen MRP as saying "well, you done fucked up. With that in mind, here's how you proceed so you aren't fucking up even further:"

[–]bornredd 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Excellent. I believe that the current degradation of masculinity can't be halted unless men who understand what is happening start having families and raising their kids. It makes me sad to look at all these young men who come to TRP to be told to never marry. Raising my own children is one of the more satisfying experiences of my life.

Be smart about it. Choose wisely. Don't end up like the guy at the end of Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade. It's work - hard work - but the rewards can be worth it.

[–]Senior ContributorNightwingTRP 5 points6 points  (18 children)

That rests with the other moderators. Where do they stand as a group? Does the actions of that individual reflect the group or not?

[–]Endorsed Contributorbogeyd6 1 point2 points  (17 children)

I cannot speak for the other mods, but I think you are going to find there is a definite split on those who recommend and do not recommend marriage.

[–]Senior ContributorNightwingTRP 9 points10 points  (13 children)

I would echo RPS's comments. You can't effectively work as a team if you're split on something absolutely fundamental.

Personally, I think whoever that is who is saying he'd marry all over again is just in denial about the fact he made a dumb gamble when he was blue pill. It's probably come from a need for control... can no longer admit when he didn't have real control so he rationalises away the weakness. Essentially saying "I didn't make a bad decision by marrying... I just wasn't Red Pill enough to make it work back then. Now I can make it work, the decision was clearly fine."

For me, MRP is not Red Pill on hard mode. (I believe that glorifies things too much. An equivalent for us would be to go out and game with a mediocre SMV. It's on hard mode, the chicks won't be naturally interested. However, it's doable. Despite the fact it can be done... who the fuck is going to pretend that's something to be proud of or something you actually want to do? It's called fucking retarded to handicap yourself like that when you could spit game on easy by a few wardrobe changes, lift a bit and get a haircut.) MRP is trying to play the game after having surrendered your best trump card (the ability to walk away.) It's doable, it's difficult... but getting in that position was never a sensible move in the first place any more than trying to go out and game without raising your base SMV first. So yeah, you won't be able to convince me that any guy from there saying he'd get married all over again is anything but mentally handicapped to complement his relationship handicap.

That's just my take on it though. Ultimately it's you guys who need to take a very hard, (and possibly painful), look at what's going on.

[–]nargin0 7 points7 points [recovered]

MRP is full of a lot of military men (and that mod is one). Marriage in the military is very structurally encouraged (both in terms of financial incentives, benefits and promotion). Married men are easier to motivate as soldiers and socially easier to control.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Military men all get cheated on.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

And you get a prime example on how bad it gets. That mod was the exception that proves the rule, not the model.

Also, stokers don't count as sailors lol

[–]1KyfhoMyoba 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Married men are easier to motivate as soldiers and socially easier to control.

I've long said that the US Military is/makes one Blue Pill.

[–]nargin0 6 points6 points [recovered]

You can't effectively work as a team if you're split on something absolutely fundamental.

Views on marriage are pretty irrelevant in the operation of MRP aren't they? It's not fundamental at all to a community that is already married. It's just crying over spilled milk and isn't relevant to anything.

[–]Senior ContributorNightwingTRP 2 points3 points  (2 children)

True. But it's not going to make working with TRP much fun... and there's a fair bit of crossover from some prominent members. I also miss theultimatecad. Does anybody know what happened to him?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Im curious as well. He was one of my favorite posters. Asked around, didn't get a solid answer.

[–]2IVIaskerade 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Not exactly.

MRP is for men that have gotten married. They are correct when they say that marriage is TRP on hard mode. The problem comes when some of them start seeing this as a good thing. Once you start seeing marriage as a good thing, it's a very short leap to seeing it as having inherent benefits, and from there advocating for marriage not needing to be changed, because the state of being married is inherently good.

Believing marriage to be good makes you soft, and when you're playing on hard mode you can't afford that.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Trump card my ass. There's plenty of guys in there who build themselves back up, and then drop the papers anyways, or start getting plates regardless.

This is an argument of 1% vs the rest. You have more in here calling current year the fall of Rome

[–]Senior ContributorNightwingTRP 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Trump card my ass. There's plenty of guys in there who build themselves back up, and then drop the papers anyways, or start getting plates regardless.

This is called a disengagement. You would do well to read my base guide on argumentation.

I'm not sure whether you realise how the willingness to walk away works as a strong part of dread or whether you seem to have some kind of incorrect perception of using it as an ultimatum or something stupid like that. What you've just cited is literally irrelevant to what I said.

This is an argument of 1% vs the rest. You have more in here calling current year the fall of Rome

I have no idea what you're dribbling about. My best guess is that you're implying we're not united over here maybe? All mods and endorsed guys are on point here. We're not divided on this topic. EVEN IF we assume you're right that people are calling this the fall of rome... it's irrelevant. Whether current year is the fall of rome is not a key issue for TRP that requires us to agree. Whether or not endorsed guys and mods recommend marriage or not... that is relevant to the direction we take.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

fuck it. when you get a container ship with a few bad lemons, you get busy making lemonade with the rest, or you return the merchandise.

rps tells guys who complain about the state of trp should start providing more content and stop complaining. It's the same standard here, and 99% of us are doing just that. Iron sharpening iron.

If the rp message gets muddled, people will move on. Until then, feel free to contribute to the direction you want to see it go.

I'm not about to start calling for a reformation on account of a few people who think their marriage is the standard, and you can sprinkle a little alpha on it to win.

This post may be edgy, but I'm not going to get lumped in with that circle jerk called ppd, or the blue cuck fest.

[–]Endorsed Contributorbogeyd6 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You miss the fundamental point. Unplugging men are already married and for many there is no way out. A general goes to war with the army he has. The tools are provided for after you are handicapped. The trump card is not given up. You can still walk away but with that comes penalties. Usually for most men it's because there are children involved. I digress. The point is moot because we are discussing the minority.

Also you assume I am pro marriage and I am clearly not so the points brought up really don't apply to me. The split amongst the users is there and it is very clear. You also have your split. Does MRP subtract from trp? No, not as a whole.

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Whomever is responsible for a split mod team needs to get his house in order.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

How large a split though? I mostly know the minds of the flaired users, and it's a split between "Absolutely not" and "too early to make that reccomendation", with one 5000 word essay as an absain.

With one exception, but I argue he's the exception that proves the rule, as opposed to the model.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Flavour posters are driving the discussion. It's 7k members, you know how this works, you've been through it.

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 6 points7 points  (1 child)

I just checked out MRP for the first time. Total fucking cringefest. Apparently a bitchy bossy demanding woman is a "red pill woman".

That term always fucking grated on me... "red pill woman". Women are ALL red pill, that's the point of TRP. Being prepared to admit her hypergamous, selfish, submissive, responsibility-denying passive manipulative nature doesn't make her a better person any more than a serial murderer confessing their guilt when presented with incontrovertible evidence.

[–]ponkyol 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Despite my repeated attempts to help them steer into the right direction, I have been confronted by many members there simply defending marriage as a good decision for a man in western culture

I don't feel this at all. If anything the majority attitude is to salvage what they can and many wouldn't have married now.

[–]bvcxxcvb 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Fantastic post, I can't thank the mods enough for staying true to their original mission. While the red pill can be bitter medicine, it needs to exist. These "purple pill" messages are so insidious because they create cognitive dissonance, which is often just a slippery slope back to "women are wonderful". They are not wonderful. They are ruled by emotions. I truly believe that everything in Western society went (perhaps irreversibly) downhill when we gave them the vote. But this is a Pandora's box that won't be closed in our lifetimes.

Since I see so many experienced posters in the comments, I have to ask a question that's been on my mind lately: what about kids? I want kids. Traditionally the path to do so is through marriage. That's incredibly ill-advised as we all know. But in what circumstances can one have kids and raise them in a healthy manner (I believe having both parents present is important) without marriage?

I've been thinking about the options and scratching my head. Find an "enlightened woman"? Even if they understand their nature, they're powerless to control it. They are so susceptible to peer pressure and societal shaming, they will have so much trouble having a kid and not getting married, especially viewing their friends' facebook wedding photos. Even if they agree, it seems resentment could set in and they'd essentially take your family unit for hostage.

Another option I see is just being so successful and having so much leverage that she'll have to make the trade-off of satisfying your demands. I'm talking multi-millionaire status or something, with incredible frame. Even then leave it to them to get upset and resentful a while later and take the family hostage, even though by sheer virtue of being with you they're doing so much better than any other woman could. Another problem with this is common law, if you live together (or together enough), you're basically back at marriage, for all intents and purposes under the law.

Of course there's another option I've been thinking about lately. Find a girl richer than you. This is interesting, because it seems more difficult to get as divorce / common-law raped. Of course if she starts weathier then you catch up, well, back to square one.

Fuck man, I just want to pass on my genetics and give the little fuckers as good an upbringing as possible. I don't know if that's considered a "blue pill" desire, but frankly I don't care if it gets labeled as such because I'm passing on my genes in my lifetime one way or another. What advice would TRP give on doing this right?

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

We've just added a new flair to discuss exactly this.. what if we want kids?

/r/TheRedPill/comments/4hx88m/introducing_married_red_pill_flair/

[–]Senior Endorsed ContributorFieldLine 2 points3 points  (0 children)

If PPD is a battle for minds, then the apologists have decidedly lost. Accepting the frame that TRP is fundamentally flawed and working backwards from there ensures that the debate will only land at conclusions that benefit the feminine imperative. And the takeaway for any onlookers reading is that surely there is a moderate position somewhere in the middle- a "purple pill" of sorts. We can accept reality, except the parts that offend us. Those in the fringes of TRP may easily bite at such a delicious nugget rather than face the reality that the fairy tales are all false.

The Red Pill is bitter. Finding this place was the best and worst thing to ever happen to me.

The attraction to PPD is obvious - as you said, the moderate position "somewhere in the middle" is certainly more attractive than the picture painted by TRP even if it has no basis in reality. Which is why, I think, for a person to truly understand what TRP is all about they have to get burned.

There has to be some sort of middle ground, even if we don't subscribe to it. Someone new here would run for the hills if there was only TRP. I certainly would have. Let people read PPD, implement what they read there and arrive at their own conclusions. Hopefully they'll realize the truth before they make a major decision that's difficult to reverse like getting married, but if they don't, even if you try to convince them of the truth they won't listen to you. Just look at MRP.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (3 children)

I knew RPW was bullshit when I posed a simple question:

If a woman has her dream man, who is everything she wants in a man, but he refuses to marry, what should the woman do?

What do you think they said? What does that tell you about women's view of marriage?

[–]Wel108 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That logic, is perfect man.

[–]jdgalt 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I would expect them to say she should dump him. Because that's her best strategy. That doesn't mean RPW is BS. It means men's and women's rational goals conflict with each other. There's no reason they ought to be less honest about that than we are.

All women are never going to get that message and heed it, because if they did, it would mean we're all wrong about their nature.

[–]stawek 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If she is sure he won't marry she should dump him. Otherwise he will dump her once she hits the wall and she will be screwed.

Better to have second best man that stays than the best that will leave. Same for us - better an honest 8 than a slutty 9 (for ltr)

Marriage is a tool for society to remove the prisoner's dilemma in gender relations. The dilemma being "if i marry her she has power over my finances" and "if i not marry him he will swap me for younger woman at first opportunity". Both parties must play suboptimally to achieve optimal results. However current marriage laws make the game unacceptable for men, which means both women and men are screwed. Remove alimony, child support, social security and marriage will be viable again.

[–]BlackJ1 3 points4 points  (3 children)

I've said it before, but I feel like some people just fail to understand it fully.

TRP is being politically incorrect. TBP is being politically correct.

I firmly believe that most people who are so called "blue pill" know they are lying to themselves and other people. I don't remember the link, but there was a post in TBP where a RP user asked if people genuinely believed that nice guys have more success with women than jerks. You could tell in their responses they were full of shit.

I don't believe the PPD makes it any better because it seems to imply that there is something to debate about when it comes to human nature. There isn't. We can only observe and accept it(which TRP excellently does), which people on the PPD fail to do. Most posts are about users denying and trying to prove something wrong or right.

[–]2IVIaskerade 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I always saw MRP as a sub for "you're an idiot for getting married, but since you went ahead and behaved idiotically, here's how you don't fuck up any further..."

It's a shame they couldn't hack that.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It is good that you have taken this stand. It is good that you have warned people about false prophets. I have also been on PPD debate, as have a lot of senior RP guys and mods. I see PPD as a place to engage and debate against blue pill corrosion and chat with some friendly people. It is a lot less serious over there and light hearted chat can be refreshing.

As for those who defend marriage. Well I was married, 2 kids. I do not regret having kids but to defend marriage in this day and age is crazy. Marriage will go the way of the dinosaur in the west. Thank feminism and online dating for that. The old world is dying quickly and the traditional family unit will become a vastly increasing minority unit in the future. Marriage is a bad deal for men in the west. I will be telling my boy that he should never consider marriage, it is a tradition from the past which is not relevant for the future.

Blue pill is really a tragic place. I have not even visited there but there are bloopers on PPD. They are more to be pitied than scorned. These poor hapless victims even reinforce red pill truths whenever they try to prove a point. There arguments are emotional, misguided and laughable. As for the misogyny on TRP, well I reject the term misogynist completely. We all know that the term has been expanded as a catch all perjorative to be thrown at any opinion or person who disagrees with feminism. We make sweeping generalisations about women like feminists do about men. If we are misogynists then feminists are misandrists, so the pot cannot call the kettle black.

I do have one ongoing issue with TRP but I cannot see any easy solution. It is not the hate for women but the hate for each other. Shit can get really nasty in here, over almost nothing. It is the reason I spend more time in PPD now. I can have red pill views over there and even the bloopers are not as rude and aggressive as some guys on TRP. I guess it is just the nature of the beast here, we have lots of angry opinionated guys (myself included), lots of alphas in training arguing that their opinion is right. It is typical male behaviour. If I was 22 I would love the arguing and fighting, now that I am older it does get boring being called out and insulted over minor points of disagreement.

So in summary, I agree with more than 90% of this post. Good that you are maintaining high walls and a clear line. Marriage is a bad deal if you are a man in the west, do not let anyone try to convince you otherwise.

[–]bluecantuesday 1 point2 points  (2 children)

We've heard a lot of these phrases here. "Too many people in the anger phase" or "too many spergs here" or "when you look past the misogyny" or "I don't agree with most things here, but..."

does this mean the sub is going to start cracking down on "lulz he's just in the ~anger phase~" cunty passive aggression?

because I really hate that shit

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

We've always made it a point to remove it, but don't always catch it. Please report when you see it.

[–]RetroGroovin 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is the greatest thing I've read as a new member. The indoctrination runs deep. Some of this shit I'm realizing I'm guilty of.

If it doesn't benefit me then its unnecessary. Many people get it twisted and think this kind of mantra is extremely self-serving and selfish.

I hate this useless urge to serve other peoples interests especially when it jeopardizes me being able to realize my own. It crippled me in highschool, I'm certain it has caused me to not capitalize on many opportunities that were there for me. This misguided belief that we should be worrying about the other woman or man before ourselves is why so many people are miserable in life.

I'll help when its convenient. I'm angry because I've been lied to. I'm harsh because you've abused whatever softness I've shown. I don't need you to police my thoughts and opinions they are mine and they aren't changing.

[–]Horus_Krishna_2 1 point2 points  (0 children)

nice post. I see I'm guilty of downplaying anger myself. I see my young self getting mad over women but it's easier said than done to just forget it and focus on "improvement for self." Definitely don't want to censor anyone and make them afraid to state their anger.

[–]99_Problem 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Fuck yeah. Score one for Team Man. Thank you for all your hard work.

[–]FrameWalker 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Im glad you called out the border attack. It got to me. I accepted their views om the importance of marriage for social mobility. But fuck its 2016. The new rich are gonna be as weird twisted and rebellious as ever.

make no mistake

Here's my concern trolling. Using the above phrase is the same as slamming your fists on the table. It says to the reader agree with me or else. Its bullying and adds little to the discussion.

I propose a new trp women sub. Trpwomengonewild. They post a link to a fresh pic of their tits at the beginning of every post.

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Using the above phrase is the same as slamming your fists on the table. It says to the reader agree with me or else. Its bullying and adds little to the discussion.

If the phrase "make no mistake" wasn't followed by ten more paragraphs with solid reasoning for my hypothesis, I'd agree.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (27 children)

Other subs worthy of mention unfortunately include the Married Red Pill sub, which despite its efforts to give a safe haven to men who married while plugged in, has devolved into an exercise in rationalizing why it was a good idea to begin with. Despite my repeated attempts to help them steer into the right direction, I have been confronted by many members there simply defending marriage as a good decision for a man in western culture, one of whom was a moderator whose post read "knowing what I know now, I would get married all over again."

The argument uses a common theme that you might recognize. Those who don't get married simply "aren't alpha enough to survive a marriage." Marriage, to them, is red pill on hard mode, and only the best of the best survive. Interesting that shame should be the primary enforcer of this behavior. It reminds me of something... perhaps it's written about somewhere in our sidebar.

I imagine myself making a similar face reading about somebody bragging about surviving a game of russian roulette, trying to convince others it's a game of skill and that the bullets in the chamber are reserved only for those not strong enough to win.

I'm the one you are referencing here.

I will make my point as succinct as possible.

Telling men they should or should not marry is as fucking gay as telling them they should or should not date or should or should not drop a plate or spin one.

You are just a dude, a fucking speck in their internet life. You can provide your advice, for sure - but you cannot tell them what to do.

If I say I like skydiving, who the fuck are you to harp about the dangers. If I like to fuck women on the side in my marriage, who are you to judge? If I say I enjoy my marriage and own my shit - why the fuck do you care?

We walk our own paths. If guys get off to Russian roulette, then let them do their thing. You don't have to, that's the beauty of being an 'alpha' man - you don't give a single fuck what the others guys are doing, their path isn't your's to worry about.

I don't tell guys what they should and should not do, I tell them when they are lying to themselves or their ego is in the way, but if a dude loves Smirnoff and says he brings it to every party, as long as he owns that shit then who am I to judge.

The Red Pill isn't yours to lay claim to, it isn't a single thing. It coincides perfectly with masculinity as a whole.

Masculine men own their shit - that's it. TRP is the sexual aspect of it, understanding the other guy (women) and using that knowledge to reach their objective.

Of course you won't mention this in your OP as that isn't popular. I posted solid shit about how I've maintained a sex filled marriage and been down voted and wrote a response about bitches being predicable and gotten hundreds of upvotes.

You've got your fanboys here who are eating anything you put out because you're RPS. But, when you look at real world application, these guys should be owning their shit and choosing to do what they want vice what TRP told them to do - because FUCK TRP - it isn't about making it on this sub, its about using this sub as a resource for tangible and intangible results in the real world

EDIT

That marriage is a necessary component to success is just the evidence they need to keep clinging on to the blue pill lies that they were comfortable believing to begin with.

You'd do well to put out truths to your thousands of subscribers. I'm in the minority when I say Marriage CAN work. A lot of the guys disagree and go about their business, you seem to be the one caught up on a dude saying marriage CAN work and that if someone wants that, then they should do it fully armed with the knowledge of what is at stake and the amount of work required.

I'm surprised at how sensitive you've become on this topic. You don't have any counter to the point that my marriage is sex filled, I'm improving personally and professionally, and I never went through Deadbedroom or had a Dadbod. I have my kids under my control and own my shit as every masculine man should, you couldn't/didn't choose to - doesn't mean we should all be like you.

EDIT

Disagree with RPS with a thought out response, still enter the negatives - do you see my point? It's not about what is useful, it's only about what is popular.

I'd rather a man disagree and say why - than become a yes man to me. Too many Yes men in TRP.

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 13 points14 points  (13 children)

You are just a dude, a fucking speck in their internet life. You can proide your advice, for sure - but you cannot tell them what to do.

This would be a cogent point if we weren't literally on a self-help forum dedicated to advice. Of course I can't tell anybody what to do. But I can ensure that the advice being given on our subreddit is consistent with the red pill.

If any advice was on topic, we'd call this the "any advice" forum.

But it's not. It's advice from a red pill perspective.

So, yeah, it's within the purview of my job to ensure that the advice isn't balls-to-the-wall nonsense like what you've been preaching.

The Red Pill isn't yours to lay claim to, it isn't a single thing. It coincides perfectly with masculinity as a whole.

Likewise, it's not yours to bastardize.

My job, which I do very transparently here, is to ensure that the principles laid out on this subreddit upon its inception are kept true.

Masculine men own their shit - that's it. TRP is the sexual aspect of it, understanding the other guy (women) and using that knowledge to reach their objective.

That's as good as saying "anybody can do anything..." Well sure, that's true. There's already an /r/relationships for "anything" advice.

I posted solid shit about how I've maintained a sex filled marriage and been down voted and wrote a response about bitches being predicable and gotten hundreds of upvotes.

And I've told you more than once, good for you, that doesn't make it a solid strategy.

You've got your fanboys here who are eating anything you put out because you're RPS. But, when you look at real world application, these guys should be owning their shit and choosing to do what they want vice what TRP told them to do - because FUCK TRP - it isn't about making it on this sub, its about using this sub as a resource for tangible and intangible results in the real world

And here you've turned to shame to re-enforce your terrible advice. As long as one owns their shit, they should make any decision they want, no matter how poor it may be? Implying that abstaining from marriage is just simply a man-boy problem of not owning one's own shit.

Of course if somebody wants to read TRP and get married, that's their choice, we're not stopping anybody from living their lives. But when they come crying that shit went south, it's not like we didn't warn them.

You'd do well to put out truths to your thousands of subscribers. I'm in the minority when I say Marriage CAN work. A lot of the guys disagree and go about their business, you seem to be the one caught up on a dude saying marriage CAN work and that if someone wants that, then they should do it fully armed with the knowledge of what is at stake and the amount of work required.

That's the sort of nonsense I'm talking about. Driving off a cliff and surviving can work. Playing Russian Roulette and surviving can work. Doesn't make either of those a solid strategy.

I'm surprised at how sensitive you've become on this topic. You don't have any counter to the point that my marriage is sex filled, I'm improving personally and professionally, and I never went through Deadbedroom or had a Dadbod.

You're literally preaching that you've made a bad decision that hasn't gone south on you yet - but your marriage isn't even a decade old yet. Why would I let a special snowflake like you start making threads about how others should too?

Here's an idea, I started smoking a few years back, and haven't died of cancer yet, so here's how I'm going to drag an entire subreddit down with absolutely shit advice because my 3 years of smoking havn't had repercussions yet.

I have my kids under my control and own my shit as every masculine man should, you couldn't/didn't choose to - doesn't mean we should all be like you.

You've bought the feminine imperative, hook, line, and sinker. You serve at the mercy of your wife. What you have is nothing more than what she lets you have.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (12 children)

that doesn't make it a solid strategy.

It makes it another strategy, one that can be considered along with all others.

As long as one owns their shit, they should make any decision they want, no matter how poor it may be?

Yes, absolutely. I think the guy who quits his job to be an artist is a fucking retard, but it's his decision to make and as long as he owns it, then go for it.

Implying that abstaining from marriage is just simply a man-boy problem of not owning one's own shit.

Negative, I'm implying that anyone who skips an LTR or Marriage, or anything because of TRP vice what they truly desire is fucking weaksauce

But when they come crying that shit went south

Yet when they come saying shit went north they are chastised as some cuckold fuck.

Doesn't make either of those a solid strategy.

Spinning plates can get you diseases, everything has risk some people view marriage to be worth that risk.

but your marriage isn't even a decade old yet.

Why does everyone bring age into this? When you hit a 400lb deadlift does someone says, Well, you're not 45 yet when it gets harder to maintain your muscle mass? No, because thats fucking stupid, if I'm owning it now thats all I have to show, the same as anything.

The physiological response of smoking is almost universally proven, marriage is interpersonal, entirely different

You serve at the mercy of your wife. What you have is nothing more than what she lets you have.

You know nothing of me or how my relationship works, I guess you added this as a nice tag line for your own mental masturbation?

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 10 points11 points  (11 children)

It makes it another strategy, one that can be considered along with all others.

Not all strategies are equal. For instance, putting a fork in a toaster is a bad strategy. It's so bad, it doesn't belong on our subreddit.

Negative, I'm implying that anyone who skips an LTR or Marriage, or anything because of TRP vice what they truly desire is fucking weaksauce

So somebody who reads a well-reasoned rationale on why marriage is a raw deal for men and makes the informed decision not to marry is... weak? Is there an argument you can make that doesn't rely on shame?

Yet when they come saying shit went north they are chastised as some cuckold fuck.

No, they are not. There are a lot of men who come here for help, and it's cathartic to discuss where things went wrong.

You must be referring to a straw version of the red pill that you read about somewhere else-- perhaps your subreddit? I wouldn't expect objectivity there anyhow.

Spinning plates can get you diseases, everything has risk some people view marriage to be worth that risk.

Yes, everything has risk. Some are more risky than others. You seem to think that because there are varying levels of risk, that they are equally risky. Which doesn't make much sense at all.

Why does everyone bring age into this? When you hit a 400lb deadlift does someone says, Well, you're not 45 yet when it gets harder to maintain your muscle mass? No, because thats fucking stupid, if I'm owning it now thats all I have to show, the same as anything.

Except in weight lifting, a sign of success is how much weight you can lift. In marriage, your success is based on happiness and how long you can keep it going. That's literally the measurement. Anybody can stay happy for a few years in marriage. That's not special.

The physiological response of smoking is almost universally proven, marriage is interpersonal, entirely different

You can actually just read the marriage contract laws to see the flaws. It's not hidden or covert, and it's not special on a case-by-case basis.

You know nothing of me or how my relationship works, I guess you added this as a nice tag line for your own mental masturbation?

I don't need to. I know the law, and I know women.

[–]DexterousRichard 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Although I vehemently agree with everything OP said, TRP should not tell people not to get married. TRP should tell people about the law and the nature of women and they can make their own decisions.

IMHO, if a man is red pilled, it's a hell of a lot easier to achieve a good marriage. It's not a slam dunk, and sometimes it's impossible. But marriage is only definitively a shit deal for blue pill guys. RP can help drastically.

TRP shouldn't be supporting or promoting marriage for that reason, but it shouldn't be telling people it's always 100% BS either. TRP is about knowledge and wisdom. We make our own paths.

That said, all the shit about concern trolling is dead on.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (9 children)

We did this in MRP - I'm going to prevent another 30,000 words from being spent.

This is your sub, do whatever the fuck you want and kick out or include whoever the fuck you want. But don't let your blinders prevent you from seeing ll perspectives to an issue.

Marriage can work, for the past 8 years, mine has provided nothing but joy, sex, and value. Apparently you have some measurement of time that determines whether this passes 'the test', frankly I don't give a fuck this is my life, not a reddit test.

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 11 points12 points  (2 children)

But don't let your blinders prevent you from seeing ll perspectives to an issue.

I'm always open to a logical argument, to prevent blind spots.

Today, you did not have one.

[–]FUCK_YEA_GLITTER 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Today, you did not have one

Rekt. I really wanted to see some solid points on the side for marriage... I truly did. But they never came...

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I agree with you that marriage can potentially work, but marriage itself is not necessary to derive the benefits you've described. Also, it objectively has downsides as well as game theory "traps" which you cannot fully immunize yourself from.

[–]Endorsed Contributorredpillbanana 4 points5 points  (9 children)

Telling men they should or should not marry is as fucking gay as telling them they should or should not date or should or should not drop a plate or spin one.

It's not wrong to tell someone to do anything as long as you back it up with facts and statistics.

You are just a dude, a fucking speck in their internet life. You can provide your advice, for sure - but you cannot tell them what to do.

So you're telling him that he can't tell people what to do? Of course he can tell people what to do, and those people are free to listen or not.

If I say I like skydiving, who the fuck are you to harp about the dangers. If I like to fuck women on the side in my marriage, who are you to judge?

I can see you're a "don't judge me" kind of person. I should let you know that I'm judging you right now and so is everyone else. You are constantly being judged by everyone, and who are you to say that they shouldn't be judging you? Who are you to say that we shouldn't harp about the dangers of skydiving? (FYI it is less dangerous than riding a motorcycle an hour per day.)

We walk our own paths. If guys get off to Russian roulette, then let them do their thing.

They are welcome to do their own thing, just as we are welcome to call them stupid and use them as an example of what others shouldn't be doing.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (8 children)

This response is a waste of both our time.

Everyone judges, bt no man has any right to think he can tell another man what he should be doing. You walk your path, I walk mine. You can look at my path, but you will never step foot on it.

[–]Endorsed Contributorredpillbanana 4 points5 points  (7 children)

Again, you're contradicting yourself. You're telling other men what they should be doing when you say, "no man has any right to think he can tell another man what he should be doing."

I tell people (mostly friends) what they should be doing all the time, and I have the right to think it as well.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (6 children)

Yeah, I tell men to own their shit, choose the right path over the easy one, and to do what they believe is right over what is popular.

This is different then telling them specific decisions to make.

Would you tell me I was retarded for buying a pet snake? Or a motorcycle? Or a french press? It doesnt matter what you say, so long as I own it in the masculine sense, then you should be good with it.

The same goes for all things. You can say something is completely a waste, but as long as the individual owns their shit - you should be good with it - too include marriage.

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 4 points5 points  (1 child)

the right path over the easy one

Coincidentally, this is marriage.

I just put an entire essay about how the feminine imperative makes strategies that benefit them into socially "right."

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You know what is right? Having a six pack at 30, you know what is easy - the dad bod. I guess the female imperative would say a six pack is for the enjoyment of women so it's lame, we should all have dad bods? You make no sense.

[–]Endorsed Contributorredpillbanana 3 points4 points  (3 children)

Would you tell me I was retarded for buying a pet snake? Or a motorcycle? Or a french press? It doesnt matter what you say, so long as I own it in the masculine sense, then you should be good with it.

All those examples are fine though I'm a bit iffy on the snake.

But if a friend of mine wanted to buy a magnetic bracelet to help him with his wrist pain, I'd call him an idiot.

If a friend of mine decided to marry his bitchy girlfriend because his astrologer told him to, I'd call him an idiot.

And if a friend of mine decided to join the Church of Scientology...well you see where I'm going with this. Some things are just stupid and people should feel stupid for doing them.

The same goes for all things. You can say something is completely a waste, but as long as the individual owns their shit - you should be good with it - too include marriage.

If a friend of mine went full beta orbiter oneitis on a sketchy woman, I'd call him on his shit, even if he owns it and even if he thinks it is right. Maybe he listens to me, maybe he doesn't, but at least I tried.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (2 children)

I see your point.

[–]3savoryprunes 4 points5 points  (1 child)

I ride a motorcycle. It has worked out for me so far. However, when my brother-in-law suggested that he start riding too, I told him I don't condone it.

He is the father of and provider for my niece and two nephews. If I die, so what. If he dies, the damage is far greater. I will never tell him: "Do what you want, bro. Own that shit."

I know the risks and they've worked out for me so far. Knowing those same risks, my blanket advice to others is not to do it. I know that the ones who really want to will ignore me anyway.

[–]Endorsed Contributorredpillbanana 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Good advice.

If he were an experienced rider already, it would be a bit more understandable, as I know experienced riders develop a sixth sense for dangerous situations.

[–]DecrepitDelineation 2 points2 points [recovered]

My first TRP account here, first post in a TRP sub after a 1+years of lurking

I have enormous respect for you, the mods and prolific writers, and your very difficult decisions you've made. It takes a great deal of integrity and personal resolve to hold fast to your ideals, even when the consequences are unpleasant.

However, what you describe in this post, as much as I may admire it, is exactly the reason I will likely never be an involved member of this community. Your vision of what TRP can and should be is alien to mine (and others), and those differences in vision lead to differing choices about the running of this sub.

You and I both can see that both choices about "concern trolling" and "tone policing" have both positive and negative consequences either way. You have come to the conclusion that since the long term affects of allowing both are so bad, they cannot be allowed in the present. This is a very reasonable conclusion and prescription for course of action, but I disagree nonetheless.

I have a different vision for what TRP could and should be. I would rather the objective focus on the user experience as the highest goal. Whatever helps convey information and truth, in the most accessible fashion to most men, should be held as the ideal. Let's help people visiting and using the sub get the most out of it. If asking a few dozen writers to keep their vitriol in check makes the content more available to thousands more readers, then let's prefer that.

This means discarding current ideals, such as holding fast against things that may lead to slippery slopes. This means not tolerating manlets with daddy issues vent misguided crap and then defend them "because anger phase" or "because this is how some men eventually see the light". This means undoing some current rules if we let go of concerns about insidious influences creeping in.

Yes, such a system may eventually have its balls cut off, metaphorically speaking, because of tolerance creep. It may also fail in countless other ways.

But . . . Such changes would also lead to huge benefits (which I can describe later). They would take the hate out of the love/hate relationship I (and others) feel towards this sub. Why would this matter? Right now, this sub mostly sucks.


I say all of this as a true believer. I think I've swallowed all of The Red Pill, and if I haven't then I want to. I fully subscribe to the core claims made by this community. In world view, I'm right there with you.

This is why it sucks to see this sub with so much crap in it. I agree with this community, yet I don't want to read any more negativity, any more "women are leeches" posts, any more "nobody but you cares about you" posts. Both as a man choosing media to consume, and as a human that wants to avoid pain, this stuff turns me away from TRP.


Go ahead and make TRP what you will. I appreciate all you've done for me and other men. I do hope you realize all the consequences of your choices.

If there are any others here who agree with me and are interested, talk to me. Maybe there's something we can do ourselves.

[–]3savoryprunes 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Whatever helps convey information and truth, in the most accessible fashion to most men, should be held as the ideal.

I believe purity of message is of utmost importance here. Our exclusivity keeps that possible. You wouldn't have learned what you have learned had it not been for the purity of message that the exclusivity has afforded.

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