They will look at you weird. (On IOIs) (self.askTRP)

submitted by Heathcliff--

This post may be obvious to some, but it'll be useful for some newbies on their journey. I sure wish someone had mentioned something like this to me a while back.

I got hot, but didn't realize it for a long time.

It takes a while to get hot. It won't happen overnight. It will come in stages. If you're lifting (like you should be), you won't really notice the change in your body, as you're constantly scrutinizing yourself in the mirror. You'll always be forever small.

However, friends and family will. One day someone you haven't seen in a while will come up to you and say something like "wow you've really changed!" or "you lost a lot of weight dude well done" or "damn your arms got huge have you been working out?". You'll be genuinely surprised; you won't have noticed the drastic changes because you'll be so focused on the increments.

And girls will treat you better. I guarantee you. Women might "accidentally" touch you more, they will look at you different, they may hug you when greeting when they've never done that before.

While working out presents incremental changes; fixing your style or haircut will be a drastic change that people are sure to notice straight away. Some may even make fun of you for it at first. Don't stress too much about it; a lot of people are weirded out and uncomfortable with drastic change. They have this mental image in their heads that they've assigned to you, a caricature per se, and when you break through that image and present yourself as something different, their reality is flipped on it's head and they may be a bit befuddled at first. That's normal, they quickly acclimatize again and get used to the new you. It happens quicker than you think. Don't stress too much about it.

But the real clincher is the looks you get from women. They check you out. All the time. All the hot guys on this sub know what I mean. If you don't know what I mean, it's because you haven't reached that stage of attractive yet. I'm going to explain what happened to me:

Even though I've been lifting for at least a year now, I'm still pretty slim. The combination of doing a strength program over hypertrophy, being tall, not eating enough consistently and having an albatross wingspan means my skinny arms and weak chest really give away how beta I used to be. I can still be bigger, and that's the plan.

However, I fixed my posture. I started dressing for my age (Don't just dress well. Dress for your age). I got a decent haircut and I take care of my hair properly. I got some shades that suit the shape of my face. I started shaving every day. I wear cologne.

One day I was commuting to school and I noticed a woman was giving me a weird look. When I saw her looking at me she snapped away. I was confused. Was there something on my face. Did I have a booger? Did I just look weird?

Being beta and self conscious I went to the bathrooms before my lecture to make sure there wasn't anything in my teeth or whatever.

On the way back, some teenage girls kept glancing at me. One turned around to look and I caught her. Her friends laughed.

I went home that day dejected, were those girls making fun of me because I looked stupid?

The next day I was sitting on the train and some HB7 looks at me. Then looks away. Then looks again. She was staring me down angrily. I remember thinking "what's this bitches problem".

Another did the same thing, fixed her hair when I met eyes with her. I looked away quickly. "Damn, can't have her thinking that I'm stare-raping her".

This kept happening, for a long time. I seriously went at least a few months wondering why all these women were looking at me weird on my commute to and from school. Why did they keep staring at me? Maybe I just had a fucked up face. Maybe I dressed weird? Smelt weird? Gave off a weird vibe? I was so used to being that weird nerd kid that I assumed every time someone looked at me they were making fun of me.

And then one day I had a pretty obvious eye opener. A very effeminate camp man stared me down on the tube. He wasn't even shy about it. When I looked at him again, he smiled.

"Why did he smile?". I realized he was the first man I'd found who was looking at me with those weird "scared" eyes that all the girls were giving me. I thought I was scaring those girls cos I looked, acted or smelt weird.

But no other men were staring me down on the train. I couldn't remember a single time a man looked at me weird on the tube like the way the women were. If I looked, acted or smelt weird, surely I'd be getting death stares from all genders?

And bam, that's when I realised. Maybe they're checking me out.

The "imposter syndrome" post recently got me to write this up, because really, that's what I was feeling. I couldn't for the life of me notice that I was being checked out, because I never considered myself hot. I never even realized that I'd GOT hot; but of course it had to happen eventually. I was actively working on improving my appearance after all. I just never really internalized that at one stage I actually would reach "attractive". Eventually I was going to get to a stage where random strangers on the street were going to check me out. I just hadn't realized I'd hit that stage.

And from there all the previous encounters with women on the train made sense to me. They were all checking me out.

"No way", I thought. "There's no way they can be that blatant".

And then I started looking out for it. They do it ALL the time. On the train, at the library, at the coffeeshop. Women check me out CONSTANTLY now. I couldn't believe it. I've never had this much attention from random women before in my life. I've never been validated so much by strangers. Is this what it's like to be a pretty girl?

Once I started noticing it, I learnt to look out for it, and now I notice it more. On every commute I take there will be at least 3 or 4 women who give me the eye. They look at me, look away, and then look at me again. This is an IOI.

If they touch or fix their clothes or hair straight after seeing you, it means they want your dick. Almost certainly. A woman who notices an attractive guy will almost straight away groom herself to ensure she's looking at her prettiest. If you see a girl across the bar/cafe or whatever fix her hair after looking at you, you have been given a free pass to approach. I have never been had a rejected approach after hitting on a girl who fixed her hair after staring me down.

I know it's a sure thing because I realized I did it to. If I saw a hot girl I'd fix my hair quick while she wasn't looking. Women are the same.

I read in a comment on here a while back that if you catch eyes with a girl, don't be the first to look away. It's true. If you look away first it signals how beta you are. In almost all cases the girl will look away first. Some snap straight away. If she stares you down and you end up playing chicken it means you've got a feisty one.

If she looks away and then looks back at you and your eyes are still firmly locked on her, she will melt. It's a sure technique to framing yourself as alpha before you even open your mouth. You know what you want and you're looking at it, you won't look away because you're scared of her. She'll notice you checking her out and her panties will wet.

So, for those guys out there that are getting stared down; you're getting IOIs. If a girl you're checking out sees you and fixes her hair or clothes. You're getting IOIs. If she looks at you, looks away and then looks back at you, you're getting IOIs.

And no matter how you hamster it away to your beta self, it's becuase she thinks you're hot. You might not think so, you might still see an ugly nerd in the mirror, but the women who are checking you out don't. Don't let imposter syndrome stop you from apporaching girls that are very obviously sending you cues; you're wasting oppurtunities. Use these obvious cues to break through approach anxiety; these girls are bascially begging you to talk to them.

Or you could just have something on your face.

Lessons Learned

  • You will become attractive before you yourself realize you've done so

  • If women are staring at you in public places, you're being checked out. Even if you don't think so.

  • If you're being checked out, it's becuase you're hot. Even if you don't think so.

  • Women who groom themselves after seeing you are sending IOIs

  • Never be the first to look away when you look eyes with a girl

  • If she's constantly looking at you don't waste the opportunity and go fucking talk to her

[–]1jcromero 85 points86 points  (21 children)

Real talk, real IOIs are often WAY more subtle than you'd expect.

  • Instead of staring at you, a girl will desperately try NOT to make eye contact. She's so nervous and filled with attraction she simultaneously wants and yet dreads your attention

  • Girls negging guys. This is usually a sign of an older woman that's been banged out by alphas and has lost or just lacks a lot of her socialization skills.

  • Women and gay men will touch you WAY more. Like they get more physically aggressive and invade your personal space.

  • The weirdest thing that happens when you become attractive is that many women won't be your friend anymore. They're no longer interested in you for moral support; they have other beta males to do that. Weirdly, women will respect your time and energy more. This is because they're trying to lay you. However women get discouraged SUPER quickly, so you have to either move super quick or super slow.

[–]_the_shape_ 29 points30 points  (3 children)

The weirdest thing that happens when you become attractive is that many women won't be your friend anymore. They're no longer interested in you for moral support; they have other beta males to do that. Weirdly, women will respect your time and energy more. This is because they're trying to lay you. However women get discouraged SUPER quickly, so you have to either move super quick or super slow.

Great point, and one caveat to keep in mind is the old saying: "hell hath no fury like a scorned woman".

Women do not typically handle rejection well, especially the higher they appraise themselves. If she thinks highly of herself (i.e. Borderline to full-blown narcissist), outright offers you her pussy, and you friendzone her - hah! Prepare yourself for the reckoning..

[–]Heathcliff-- 18 points18 points [recovered]

There was this one girl who was into me and I had no idea. No idea at all. She was hanging out with me, sending me IOIs, making it super obvious. I didn't see it. I thought she was being super friendly.

One day on the bus to a club while we were all drunk she cussed me out hard in front of all our friends. Screaming at me "I hate you I hate you I hate you".

I had no idea why she was doing this. Still even after that, it took me months to realise "damn, she liked me. Fuck".

Girls get super angry when they're rejected. Guys are too stupid to notice hints.

[–]LexaBinsr 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Meh. I'd say you dodged a bullet if she acted so psychotic.

[–]RamboDonkey 17 points17 points [recovered]

I agree with this. Women will usually play their cards fairly close to their chest when they do not know you well. If unknown women are making extended eye contact from afar, without really trying to hide it, then you are encroaching upon chad territory. What will often happen instead, is that women in your social circle will begin to just be around you a lot, and drop vague hints, along with perhaps the occasional overt signal. They may start doing favours for you, or suddenly shit test you here and there. IOIs are useful, but just be mindful that women can be very cat-and-mouse about this sort of thing. The women that make solid eye contact from the outset, interspersed with preening behaviours, probably like you so much that you don't even particularly need game.

I don't agree on the friendship part though. I find that women who are not interested will often not proactively make efforts to be friends with you. Women who have a medium level of interest may proactively creep into your friend zone in some ways, perhaps sizing you up. Women with high interest will send the more obvious signals early on, such as sly touching or eye gazing.

[–]2Overkillengine 11 points12 points  (0 children)

What will often happen instead, is that women in your social circle will begin to just be around you a lot

And they will fucking jump on any excuse to be alone with you. The amount of plausible deniability she will require will also decrease the more she wants you.

[–]MAWL_SC 11 points12 points  (5 children)

Women won't be your friend...

This struck me, I've noticed this and wondered why women will be very respectful and complimentary and then not even respond to simple friendly gestures.

Also, the fickleness of female attraction is incredible. So many times I have not been in a position to return female advances due to circumstances or other variables. That attraction turns to disdain, apathy, and even loathing with blinding speed.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You attack their ego and destroy their currency. It’s obviously not appreciated. This is only in specific circumstances where they actually show that they’re mad, most time they’ll hamster it away "he’s probably gay" etc.

[–]1jcromero 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Well, consider how hurt you've felt when a girl rejected you. Girls are just way more likely to feel rejected just out of regular female insecurity. It's fairly immature. The best remediation is just to start gaming them slowly.

[–]vorverk 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Haha. At social gatherings my ex would literally RUN to the orbiters she was not attracted to. Giving them hugs, kisses, even tease them with rubbing her boobs against them (by accident) and stuff like that. Then when a guy that she was attracted to came close, she completely froze up. Total black out. She couldn't get one word out of her mouth.
So funny, I see a variation of this all the time now. Girl I know is attracted to me hugs everyone around when she comes to a social gathering, but me.

[–]Pumptodump 2 points3 points  (1 child)

What I really need to know is how do I differentiate between "girls trying not to give eye contact" cause they are shy and like you or "girls that are avoiding eye contact cause they think you're a creep and want you to stop looking at them!!??

[–]1jcromero 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Women biologically have a huge peripheral range of eyesight. Typically if they like you they'll keep you in their peripheral line of sight.

If they don't like you they'll usually turn away from you completely, and have very closed off body language.

Also, here's a crib sheet of eye contact rules.

[–]Snufek 194 points195 points  (34 children)

So, for those guys out there that are getting stared down; you're getting IOIs.

Damn this swoleshaming, makes life sooo difficult.

[–]TomFoo 51 points52 points  (33 children)

watch out for them bitches on r / nice girls and r / legbeards

[–]ioncehadsexinapool 7 points8 points  (31 children)

Will lifting naturally decrease body fat? Or should I take care of that first before I start lifting?

[–]_fappycamper 57 points58 points  (1 child)

Start lifting right away. Don't wait because you will wish you have started sooner.

[–]roflrazz 77 points78 points  (0 children)

"The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is now."

  • Chinese Proverb

[–]ACE-JHN 18 points19 points  (6 children)

eat calorie deficit while lifting. If you are a noob/haven't trained consistently for a long time. You will get bigger while getting leaner.

Find maintenance calories reduce calories by 300-500 lift 3-5x a week. PROFIT !!!

[–]Luckyluke23 2 points3 points  (5 children)

i lift like 3 times a week now, I also do cardio some times too ( just for fun really)

say i eat 2.5k calories now, if i drop that down to say 1.8 - 2k would that help? i've been going like 6 months now and I've had no weight change ( though i know i need to work on my diet)

[–]ACE-JHN 5 points6 points  (0 children)

It might help but tracking is the only way to find out. weigh yourself everyday for a week while eating those calories then take the average of 7 days. To keep losing weight either increase activity or decrease calories. I suggest reading some stuff by eric helms and the 3dmj team. I know a lot of info can be found for free online, but the muscle and nutrition pyramid books have been a godsend, literally answered all my questions. Now its all about applying (much easier knowing that i am going in the right direction). Check out the New rules of lifting - 6 moves, my friend plays football and he gained a lot of size and strength following that, my other friend is into oldschool routines and he did the body for life routine from the book and got insane results in a year lost 50 lbs and then lean bulked for 15 lbs. I am on the back to fit program because i am coming from numerous injuries to my knee and shoulder. This was a rant, but i just love this fitness shit now.

[–]Thevoleman 4 points5 points  (2 children)

Calories in, calories out. You're just not tracking your diet, if you do and you're actually at a 500 cal deficit, you will lose weight.

[–]Don_Keydick 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Lifting can be used to burn fat and build muscle, but you should focus more on your nutrition. Look up HIIT cardio and cardio acceleration.

[–]GunsGermsAndSteel 7 points8 points  (4 children)

This is a total derail, but I'll answer: Lift.

You can lose fat while gaining muscle. It will happen slowly, but it's possible.

Focus on high-protein meals, with not a lot of sugar or starch.

Basically just eat better in general, be active, lift weight, and you will lose fat.

I have gained about 30 pounds in the last year while significantly lowering body fat percentage. I put on a ton of muscle. I look very different from a year ago.

[–]RedPistola 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It'll decrease body fat. Just don't eat an excess of calories when you start. Cut, then bulk.

[–]grewapair 2 points3 points  (2 children)

The answer to your question is generally no. Lifting usually increases appetite, far in excess of the calories burned, and makes it difficult to lose weight.

Plan on burning no more than about 200 calories per hour lifting. You'll usually increase eating by more than that when you lift.

What many people do is to lift, gain a little weight ( the "Bulk" phase) while gaining strength and therefore muscle, then keep lifting while you struggle to lose that weight and more, while limiting or even reversing your strength gains by continuing to lift, but probably not increasing, and possibly even decreasing what you can lift (the "Cut" phase).

So you do them one after the other until you hit the physique you want. You typically do not do a bulk or cut for very long, until you have the body you want, at which point you really try to do neither.

So you might go 4 weeks of bulking and 3 weeks of cutting, then repeat.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

I do IF.. lift and eat big 6 days a week, then fast 24-36 hours on the 7th.

[–][deleted] 39 points40 points  (1 child)

That queer on the subway changed your life bro

[–]Senior Endorsed Contributormax_peenor 90 points91 points  (12 children)

So, for those guys out there that are getting stared down; you're getting IOIs

If a woman is looking at you for more than is required to get around or away from you, she is interested.

If there is ZERO interest, you are invisible to them.

I just don't understand how so many young men can't accept and utilize this very simple rule.

[–]cazzah123 29 points30 points  (10 children)

Is it honestly as black and white at this?

Like I something think they might be looking more due to bad things.

I never look at really fucking average woman.

But I will stare are really hot women, and really fucking disgusting woman.

[–]d0lphinsex 27 points28 points  (3 children)

You on hot women, you on disgusting women.

[–]RealRational 8 points9 points  (2 children)

I'm just not ever that expressive, neutral face for pretty much everything. Used to get told I looked pissed off all the time, so I practiced making a moderate smile my "default face". That's as expressive as I care to be, I'm not a fucking performer.

[–]d0lphinsex 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Learn to eye fuck. That's the only expression you'll need with women.

[–]Heathcliff-- 41 points41 points [recovered]

Ugly guys are invisible to women. If she is allowing herself to be near you, is talking to you, or even just looking at you multiple times, it means there is a shred of interest there.

[–]Fulgidus 30 points31 points  (3 children)

Or she needs something, just in case you're still not hot enough, which may be the case.

I, for example, still look like a free IT tech support coupon to them...

[–]garrettruskamp 21 points22 points  (2 children)

^ People need to be aware of this. Guys who haven't raised their SMVs enough are about to make fools of themselves. I really like what OP is doing here- giving confidence boosters but unfortunately the real world not ideal and RP is assuming it is. Nearly everything should be taken with a grain of salt.

Majority of the time, assuming you're high smv, this advice is good.

[–]d0lphinsex 10 points11 points  (1 child)

I think it's still worth to take potential IOI:s as IOI:s. If they're not but you approach and get shot down, you have at least tried and worked on your AA.

[–]AskYouEverything 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Biggest thing is the alpha always assumes interest too. Whenever you meet girls or even dudes you gotta come in with the mindset that you're a 10 and they want your attention. Internalizing that goes a looong way

[–]vorverk 78 points79 points  (2 children)

You know what's even a better feeling? When you're getting actively ignored. When she is actively trying not to look at you. Hard to explain, you just feel it. She is present, in your proximity, but trying really hard not to give you attention. It always makes me giggle inside. :)

[–][deleted] 22 points23 points  (0 children)

Haha.. I worked with a girl like this in a restaurant. I'd always catch her checking me out and she'd just give me like this look of disapproval. So I'd usually just use amused mastery with her.. Give her a shit eating grin and say something like "whatcha lookin at? ;)" good times and she'd blush. Pretty funny.

[–][deleted] 109 points110 points  (7 children)

I had this problem. When girls check me out I would instantly assume they are talking shit about me. Now if a cute cashier smiles at me. I convince myself that she was into me and not just being nice for her job. Push yourself into that mindset.

[–][deleted] 25 points26 points  (1 child)

The "just doing my job" smile vs IOI smile is wayyyy different too.

[–]vagbutters 6 points7 points  (0 children)

For sure-- you get used to it after a while and can differentiate between the two. Sometimes a bitch is just being polite. When a woman shows an IOI it's subtle yet you can pick it out (eye contact is the biggest indicator from what I've personally seen, and in rarer cases, blushing).

[–]ioncehadsexinapool 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I agree. I'm sure it does more good than harm.

[–]forcevacum 83 points84 points  (57 children)

Other things I've noticed-

  • If you are passing by an average group of girls, after you pass all the girls will giggle when you've gone about 5 paces past them. I still haven't figured this out yet but it's like you've gained their approval even though you are walking away from them.

  • On the dancefloor women will back into you as you are dancing. It's fucking rude. They'll flick their hair at you. It's fucking disgusting.

  • At bars they bump into you and still stand there expecting something but they don't initiate conversation.

  • Plates and old female acquaintances will "turn up" at social events where they aren't expected to be. For example I was at a concert getting a beer at the beer tent and an ex-plate "happened" to be right behind me in line (out of about 20 lines)

I'm 5/10 facially but have moved from a 4/10 to 9/10 body in the past three years so I've noticed these changes as well.

[–][deleted] 37 points38 points  (35 children)

I went to an animal shelter last time I took acid. I walked into the room with the puppies and saw a girl from my work who didn't notice me at first. A few minutes later while I was looking at a puppy I notice her standing right beside me looking at them too. I say hi and she turns to me surprised like "Oh hey it's you" [what a coincidence]. In my mind I'm like oh shit I don't want to talk to someone from work right now but we actually had a nice conversation. The point is that a woman will very rarely initiate conversation but she will give you indications and opportunities for you to do so.

Same with adding you on facebook. Sometimes thats the big step they will take and then it's up to you to message them/open them. Of course not all facebook adds mean this but they sometimes do.

[–]IGoYouStayTwoAutumns 62 points63 points  (1 child)

I went to an animal shelter last time I took acid.

This is the opening line to a pretty awesome novel right here.

[–]i4mn30 4 points5 points  (0 children)

"And then I realized the searing pain caused mentally to me in the aftermath of the nuclear attacks. Bones and dust, bones and dust everywhere. Not a single pupper to be seen..."

[–]Heathcliff-- 42 points42 points [recovered]

No girl will ever add a guy on Facebook that they are not interested in. Full stop. Girls do not need to add betas, they have no interest and have a request list full of ignored adds. But if she sends you a request, it's 99% because she wants your dick. If she initiated the conversation after, it's 100.

[–]lord-denning 31 points32 points  (1 child)

I disagree. As you know, girls love orbiters who comment on their pics, hit like, etc.

[–]d0lphinsex 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Yeah, tell me about it. I lived in the same apartment with a girl for a while (yeah I know, I know) and she was constantly updating her Facebook status and swear if she got few likes. She would also talk about other people's statuses and wonder why they got many likes and so on. Pathetic behavior.

[–]ioncehadsexinapool 4 points5 points  (3 children)

This thread made me pick up an old book I have the I haven't read in years. It's called "the definitive book of body language" if anyone has this I highly recommend reading chapter 15. If not, it's worth the purchase just for that chapter

[–]stagmar2 4 points5 points  (1 child)

If anyone is interested in the book, you can find it online for free as a pdf.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (11 children)

What do you think about work colleaguess adding you? A girl I haven't really talked to much but work with added me a couple of days ago

[–]vorverk 62 points63 points  (8 children)

You don't think anything. Keep professional and personal worlds separated.

[–][deleted] 21 points22 points  (7 children)

Thanks. I needed to hear that advice again.

[–]rigbyismyhomie 46 points47 points  (4 children)

Keep professional and personal worlds separated.

[–]bumblebee_lol 1 point2 points  (0 children)

well I get what you're saying but some do. A girl from my class recently added me and she is married to a guy in my class...and has a kid. Sure she might still want my D but it be risky af and I think she just wanted to add me for the sake of it. But who knows she might really want me.

[–]mehdreamer 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I disagree. They will add you but never message you. The add is just to boost their ego and have as many "followers" and "friends" as possible to compete with another slut.

[–]i4mn30 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Dude sorry to say, but I've had 3 bitches (they were 8s) from my college add me and then never reply to message (2 messages in two week spans). Just fucking unpredictable.

[–]wanderer779 9 points10 points  (0 children)

How the fuck can you talk to non tripping people when you're tripping? If someone I knew just showed up when I was tripping I'd probably run home and go hide under the bed for several hours.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You are fucking brilliant. Animal shelter on acid. My LSD days are over, but that would've made for a really great experience.

[–]2girls1george 1 point2 points  (3 children)

Do you find that they still continue to do this even though you have already talked before? I find that even guys do this and pretend to not know me, am I doing something wrong ahah

[–]trpthroway123 20 points21 points  (5 children)

At bars they bump into you and still stand there expecting something but they don't initiate conversation.

I get a lot of girls that happen to bump into me one way or another (multiple girls, every time I go out). Most of them look up and say "I'm sorry", the rest are silent.

Not "excuse me" or "oops" or "watch where the fuck you're going asshole". Sorry, or just a meek look, is all they give.

Didn't happen before I got hot. If I got bumped, it was because "I was in their way". No pausing. Never an apology. Now, it seems like almost all of them feel the need to apologize.

They expect you to say "it's ok" or "don't worry about it" and maybe open conversation (they don't carry on, obviously wasn't just a bump while moving past). I used to make a joke, and start a conversation (At least you didn't spill your drink down my shirt! What are you drinking anyway?), but that's what every other guy does.

I've taken to saying "don't be sorry, just be right". Silent girls I just stare down and ask "did you just pickpocket me?"

If nothing else, it starts a conversation with you in the right position, while setting you apart from all the other guys who let them get away with it.

[–]AGallopingMonkey 1 points1 points [recovered]

That sounds pretty douchey honestly. But if it works, don't try and fix it I guess

[–]1empatheticapathetic 15 points16 points  (0 children)

You reckon? It's 'polarising' which is what they need to generate tingles. Polite and friendly is boring. The tone he says it in is important as well. If he's visibly pissed off then yeah that's douchey and childish. If he's looking at them in the eyes with a cool demeanour its dominant and full of sexual subtext.

[–]zephyrprime 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It would work BECAUSE it's douchey. Make no mistake about that.

[–][deleted] 16 points17 points  (4 children)

At bars they bump into you and still stand there expecting something but they don't initiate conversation.

trying to initiate the ol' rom-com meet-cute

[–]Tie5o11 17 points18 points  (3 children)

This is the female open. You, as the man, need to be the one to actually initiate conversation- but you will get various types of approach invitations such as this. Be simple and normal with an opener in this situation- a "cheers- hows your night going" will usually be enough to get a conversation going.

[–]GIGANTIC_NIGGER_DICK 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Is that all it takes to make conversation in bars? I am soo scared of going to bars, where I don't know anyone, and trying to make conversation/friends. I know I'm a pussy and I'm trying to get over it but it just seems so hard and difficult.

[–]Tie5o11 2 points3 points  (1 child)

If you're not trolling- and its hard given the contradiction between your user name and the content of your post- then Yes, just go out and act like its completely natural. Having small talk with a stranger should be extremely routine, and if that's an issue for you- chat up the bartender or the old drunk locals first. Least pressure.

[–]bigtuna45 8 points9 points  (3 children)

I went to Mexico last year and sat down with my wife next to a table of three hot 18 to 20 year old natives. One looked over and adjusted her hair. The other two looked over and then they adjusted their hair. The first one reacting to the other two adjusted her hair more aggressively. In the end all three were fucking with their hair like they had lice. It was pretty hilarious, I had to look away to avoid laughing.

[–]I_Need_More_Space_ 5 points6 points  (2 children)

May have been a team of hookers. LOL

[–]bigtuna45 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Haha. No they were daughters/family of the restaurateurs in the area.

[–]Hakametal 21 points22 points  (0 children)

On your first point, I've noticed more that girls will go dead silent when you walk past. It's like their lizard brains just went into fuck-mode in an instant.

[–]TaylorWolf 14 points15 points  (1 child)

Dude spot on this is my life... I have been training MMA for the past 4 years and after the 1st year I started noticing these IOIs (especially from walking around the mall, the mall is actually an extremely sexual environment everyone is horny)

The backing up on the dance floor is hilarious!

My theory about the girls getting loud after you have passed is that it's a last ditch effort to get you to turn around and acknowledge them. It's always loud and desperate or forced sounding laugh or statement directed right towards your earlobes. Crazy thing is for me this happens just as often if not more when a girl is with a boyfriend or date than girlfriends. It's almost like they are desperately inviting me to Alpha the chump and crush him into the dirt and steal the girl.

Of course when a girl looks at you and then fiddles with her hair or adjusts her top or shorts this is a massive IOI... I get maybe 100 of these a day when I am out in public. Women today are massively horny sluts especially the younger ones. It's so fucking funny and ironic that they wear shorts so short their asses are poking out then try to tug on them as if they could make them magically grow longer and cover more skin. The tugging down on the short shorts is by far my favorite IOI.

It gets more and more intense the more I train and the more "man strength" I develop. (Was skinny AF until my 20s) now I have this phenomena where girls just hover around me wherever I go. They position themselves next to me and expect me to make a bold move (because they are so deserving "what guy wouldn't want to approach me especially this decent looking dude") it's not like I am a 10 either. (Maybe a 9 now hehe check my Twitter for a pic) it really is crazy how they all position themselves near me.

I'm still somewhat in shock and awe by these hens flocking to me and not confident enough in my social skills or game to pick this low hanging fruit unfortunately. By hesitating everything changes with girls who I have encountered more than once. Girls I see regularly at work or the gym quickly change their behavior after a few encounters and steer clear... With maybe a few thirsty glances from across the room to check if the status quo has changed. It seems like they either rationalize that something is wrong with them or something is wrong with me and sort of give up on staying near me. I have a feeling they are used to guys like me as being aggressive approachers and stereotype my manly appearance. Proof that you need to act in the moment and not overthink shit or hesitate.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

At bars they bump into you and still stand there expecting something but they don't initiate conversation.

Better then what I had to deal with.. Some average drunk girl at a bar kept trying to make out with me withing 10 mins of me sitting down last month.. I ended up leaving

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Another one

  • two women are talking while walking in your direction. As they get closer and notice you, the one talking will lose her train of thought and stop talking while she checks you out, before continuing the conversation once they passed you.

[–][deleted] 20 points21 points  (1 child)

You know society is completely fucked when a man's last possible conclusion when getting checked out is that he might actually be desirable. Even then he doesn't believe it for a while.

[–]LexaBinsr 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Not really. It is better to conclude to yourself that you are desirable than to actually think that you are even if you are not. The first one forces you to improve while the latter gives you delusions of superiority.

[–]Krunjar 30 points31 points  (7 children)

Yeah I've had the weird look before. I don't get it that much though, usually I think those women are kind of insecure and trying to say, "I'm too good for you", but its like a premptive "disgust" as a rejection defence mechanism.

As long as you got their attention, usually they like something about you, ugly guys are invisible to women, apart from maybe truly deformed people who they can't take their eyes off because they're a rare sight.

Heres some others which are funny:

  • The startle / rabbit in headlights: When shes looking down or comes round a corner, and sees you, and obviously is surprised to see you (she hasn't had the chance to prepare or covertly observe). Can be 20 feet away but they look directly in your eyes with a slightly shocked look, and then look down, embarrassed (they don't have time to process whats happening).

  • The eyefuck: They just make it completely obvious, and eye you up when they know you're looking, usually with a big grin on their face. I love this one but they're usually really slutty ;D

  • The constant covert stare: Basically staring at you for ages, when they think you can't see them doing it. Its fun to turn around and meet their eyes, as if to say, "I saw you the whole time".

I get the gay men lookign as well... and had them in bars (not gay bars :P) offer to buy me drinks, and trying to kiss me. Had one guy slobber all over my neck once, I didn't know wtf to do (wasn't expecting it) but thankfully he walked off straight after.

But still I don't think I'm good looking, I know all my "flaws" :/ I just don't think about it any more though, I just focus on doing things right (like lifting, style and game) and seeing what happens, nothing will convince me I'm hot, even a million IOIS or lays, idk why, but I don't let it bother me.

[–]d0lphinsex 16 points17 points  (1 child)

But still I don't think I'm good looking, I know all my "flaws" :/ I just don't think about it any more though, I just focus on doing things right (like lifting, style and game) and seeing what happens, nothing will convince me I'm hot, even a million IOIS or lays, idk why, but I don't let it bother me.

Only what you tell yourself matters. Start telling yourself that you're hot and you will, in time, accept this as true and give out vibes to others that you know that you're hot and that you know that others think you're hot.

[–]Krunjar 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Yeah, its one of my challenges. I find it hard to assume attraction, I always expect girls to find something about me they don't like, I find it hard to believe they would actually be attracted to me completely. I usually am burying those feelings when I'm with girls.

Mostly what I do is hold frame and game, and all the time I just think about "all I have to do is just play it right and I can fuck her", and just ignore what they think of me. I just have fun, think sexy thoughts, and remember to kino/escalate. All that matters is how she responds in the moment. To be honest that probably gives out the same vibe as thinking I'm hot, even though I don't.

I suppose its a bit weird, because when I'm with a girl that obviously likes me, I do feel hot, "to her". But its just, in general, I don't. Its like every girl is different, they can reject you for the same thing that another girl loves you for Oo

So like, walking down the street, see a girl, I have NO IDEA if she'll like me until I've gone through all the shit with her and fucked her, its like fucking is the only true IOI xD And it doesn't even matter how hot she is, she could be ugly and find some sentence I said that she doesn't like, or maybe I had a hair out of place and it wasn't good enough.

I just think that if I was truly hot, things wouldn't be so hard, that it wouldn't be such a numbers game. It seems like hot people get away with a lot, and I don't get away with pretty much anything, I have to be completely on point or its fucked! :D

[–]SetConsumes 6 points7 points  (2 children)

How does anyone know they're hot?

[–]Eyeswears 8 points9 points  (1 child)

No one ever can. It's why even drop dead gorgeous women still constantly seek validation. All we can ever hope to get are temporary radar pings.

[–]SetConsumes 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Men can take their temporary radar pings and figure out where they stand. The higher the SMV of a woman that responds well to you, the higher you must be.

Women seek validation because women are insecure by nature of focusing on ever changing feelings.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

yeah the gay thing can be pretty outlandish lol. I'm still not used to it

[–]ioncehadsexinapool 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oh man this comment is getting me excited

[–]xXSoroxXx 12 points13 points  (0 children)

I cannot stress this point enough. I was a tall twig with acne, almost zero confidence past a blown up ego. Once I started working on myself, got swole, pretty clean face, haircut, etc. I noticed people staring at me and I thought they were laughing at me. This really bothered me and I could never figure out why until it just slapped me in the face. "They're checking you out fucker"

[–]AzzyMcGee 24 points25 points  (11 children)

I lost the upper half of my body in a horrible accident. So lifting is difficult for me.

[–]systemshock869 23 points23 points [recovered]

Damn that's the most important half

[–]stawek 17 points18 points  (0 children)

Don't make it an excuse to skip the leg day, though.

[–]greatslyfer 5 points6 points  (1 child)

... I can't even visualize this, what do you exactly mean by upper half?

Like, your arms are missing or some shit?

[–]pizzafapper 1 point2 points  (0 children)

somethingsomething both arms broken, mum has to help him out

[–]RedDeadCred 5 points6 points  (0 children)

You got a beastly leg press though right?

[–][deleted] 21 points22 points  (8 children)

Don't you love being rewarded for hard necessary work? I'm sure my fellow ex-skinny bros remember going from flat-chested concentration camp kid to tits bounce a bit when I walk down stairs - that's an equally good feeling. Or benching 200 for the first time. Or a threesome. Or your first commission check.

Those moments where you briefly go "fuck yeah" but then go straight back to work because its only just begun. Live for that.

[–]Heathcliff-- 10 points10 points [recovered]

Walking down the street and big swole dude moving out of my way was my first taste of that.

[–]Crailberry 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Seriously. I wouldn't say that I've had a big swole guy move out of my way yet (or at least that I've noticed), but I have DEFINITELY noticed normal people move out of my way. Even guys with their girls. And actually it bothers me. I'm not used to it at all. I was always the guy who got out of the way for others. Now when I see guys move out of the way for me, I can't help but think to myself "what the fuck are you doing dude?!?". Especially when they're with their girl.

But I suppose I should relish it lol.

[–]turn30left 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Benching 200 isn't really a feat. I'm there now and my chest is still small. 5'11, 165 lbs. Max probably 230.

[–]killking72 1 point2 points  (2 children)

I remember walking down some stairs at Uni after I finally started putting on weight. I noticed my nipples were rubbing against my shirt, and then I noticed my pecs were large enough to start jiggling.

It's nice to see real tangible effects of your work, but that shit keeps me horny all day and it's annoying.

[–]you3337 7 points8 points  (3 children)

I feel dumb because I've been browsing this sub way too long to not know but... IOI's ?

[–]corsega 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Indicators of interest. The idea is that women will go out of their way to subtly communicate that they are interested in you. Because you are a man, it is your job to lead and pick up on these, then escalate.

[–]the_steroider 5 points6 points  (0 children)


What is this?

[–]Endorsed ContributorMetalgear222 15 points16 points  (13 children)

Put on a lot of lean muscle in the last year and have noticed a few of these. more than anything I notice they look "petrified" of me. I'm 5'8 and have a baby face but told that I look like I'm military all the time. It's different than what I'm used to, I wonder if fear is as good an emotion for opening women as general smiles and attraction.

[–]2 Senior Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours 21 points22 points  (7 children)

Fucking right it is. If she keeps looking back, puts her chin down and looks up at you while slightly turned, or over her shoulder, go talk to her. You're the same height as I am, and being intimidating is my go to for getting laid. Don't scare them outright, you don't want her thinking of being in a pit putting lotion on its skin, you want to give off the bad boy vibe. Play up the military look, high and tight or a flattop, not too flashy style, with an aura of comfortable confidence. I'm ex military, so it's how I am naturally.

The more you tease her and make her try to prove herself to you, the easier it will be to get her naked and putting your cock in her fuck holes. Yes, plural. I never have a girl turn down anal or head, they usually ask for it or offer my choice of orifice. Since we aren't overly stretched, we can look absolutely massive and lift more than the tall guys, so play to your strengths, it will pay off great when you're my age and 18-28 year olds are giving you "Please fuck me" looks.

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 7 points8 points  (4 children)

"It puts the lotion on its skin" is my next chatup line. Gotta remember not to smile tho'

[–]2 Senior Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours 3 points4 points  (2 children)

It can be lots of fun. That is a running joke with my girl who just left this morning after a weekend of carnal knowledge.

[–]tartarus2 3 points3 points [recovered]

How do you gain 'lean muscle'? I'm 5'8 with baby face too, but any small weight I gain right now goes to my fucking face

[–]Endorsed ContributorMetalgear222 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Work out, don't be afraid to go heavy, eat more, do compound motions and lifts

[–]1Jax77789 16 points17 points  (3 children)

Oh yeah I really want to add : women interested in you will say "hi" or "hello" as you pass by.

I got that a lot after swallowing the pill but I would reply back without engaging in a conversation. Do not be as dumb as I was. Now I know it is a massive IOI.

[–]jab1023 7 points8 points  (0 children)

To add to this:

I've noticed that even women who you just say hi to will suddenly start saying, "How are you/How's it going and they might use your name. This is more than just pleasantries in most cases. They are trying to extend the conversation.

[–]Magnum007 4 points5 points  (1 child)

I had a girl compliment my shoes at the gym (they are sick jean coloured converse shoes). Since I was training and DGAF about anyone when I'm in the gym, I just answered "yeah thanks, my mom bought them for me. She even wrote my name in them in case I lose them".

She laughed. I walked away feeling mighty fine. I then immediately fucking destroyed my 50 meter 240lbs farmer's walk.

[–]stawek 14 points15 points  (2 children)

If they touch or fix their clothes or hair straight after seeing you, it means they want your dick. Almost certainly. A woman who notices an attractive guy will almost straight away groom herself to ensure she's looking at her prettiest.

There is an exception.

If they somehow rearrange their clothing to cover themselves, you are creeping them out and they want to avoid attention. It could be something like checking their top if it has big cleavage opening, or making sure their skirts are properly covering everything, or even holding bag to their chest to cover themselves. If you walk into a room and a girl sitting there in miniskirt suddenly makes sure her skirt isn't revealing anything - forget about her. If she perceived you as an alpha she would gladly let her clothes "accidentally" reveal more skin.

Any revealing and opening movements are IOIs, anything opposite, like closing body posture, covering with clothes, using objects to cover, turning away, shows lack of attraction. It could also mean she perceives you as beta whom she wants to catch, so she instantly starts playing a good girl. If you are loaded, it could be IOI.

[–]DJGammaRabbit 7 points8 points  (2 children)

This happened to me going from 285-165lbs. It didn't click at all until I overheard two coworkers:

you have to stop staring at DJGR

i know but he's so hot

Mind blown.

[–]NaughtyFred 12 points13 points  (12 children)

Serious question.

Is there any reason I am starting to occasionally see this behaviour in women around me (hb4-7s) that isn't to do with them finding me attractive?

I have been hitting the gym, grooming/dressing/behaving better but I'm in no way "hawt" yet.

[–]SetConsumes 6 points7 points  (0 children)

They can find your change in attitude attractive too. But essentially, if she's looking at you, it's because you've caught her interest and must be at least somewhat attracted.

[–]forcevacum 18 points19 points  (4 children)

Occams razor my friend. For every cm your arms are bigger you bypass thousands of other guys in the smv contest.

[–]AttackOnKvothe 7 points8 points  (1 child)

That's what YOU think! ;D

...no homo.

[–]thebrandedman 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Hell, homo compliments are compliments too

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

lol man,it doesn't take long to elevate yourself with the gym. Even one month of semi-serious training and a stricter diet will result in you looking better, whether you realize it or not. Improved grooming and dressing alone will inflate your smv quite a bit, working out or not. Unless youre grotesquely obese or a holocaust looking motherfucker, small improvements will inflate your smv quite a bit

[–]ioncehadsexinapool 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I doubt it. Would you ever look at a girl more than is required if you were zero percent interested in her?

[–]d4n0wnz 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Girls are usually indirect about this kinda stuff. I've made the transition from depressed out of shape gamer nerd, to healthy and more confident, in shape mid 20 year old. I was completely caught off guard when this first started happening to me. Girls at random social events would find an excuse to start talking to me. Some real examples I've encountered: asking for a drag of my ciggarette, talking to me at a porta potty line, offering me water/gum randomly, a bartender complimenting my shoes. It only took me about 10000 failures of obliviousness to realize that I've become decent looking and should seize these opportunities.

I have yet tried to initiate a convo with a stranger at a non conventional spot(coffee shop, gym,etc) although I get body language cues to do so. I'd say the best tool to have in your toolkit is the ability to read these cues (girls fixing their hair, facing towards you, eye fucking). Man up... its your choice to act on these opportunities. No matter how good looking you may be, no girl is gonna throw herself into your arms. And also no matter how attractive you are, you to need to carry yourself as a valuable, confident, non creepy/awkward person to reach the finish line.

[–]Endorsed Contributorredpillbanana 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Another did the same thing, fixed her hair when I met eyes with her. I looked away quickly. "Damn, can't have her thinking that I'm stare-raping her".

You had moved up in the world but on the inside you were still the beaten-down beta.

[–]GnomeSkill 4 points5 points  (6 children)

I think the moment I realized I might be better looking then I thought(back when I was still a recovering beta) was when this super hot chick just happened to get on the treadmill next to me even though there where 8 other ones opened up because the gym was empty at that time, then after about 12 minutes pulled out one of my ear buds so she could ask me about the sporting even that was on the tv at the time then proceeded to have conversation afterward. my buddy who was working there at the time was like "dude you get that chicks number?" being the beta I was I thought she was just being friendly but later realized I probably could of landed the lay or at least got her number.

-lesson learned girls don't initiate first contact unless they are interested

[–]Laz_The_Kid 10 points10 points [recovered]

Similar story happened to me. I was lifting free weights early in the morning in the gym in front of the 25 foot wide mirror one day. I noticed this one chick who would literally walk right in front of me while I lifting and bend over and do stretches. Keep in mind it's early and there was barely anyone else there. She would stretch in front of me, walk away to some machine, and then every few minutes like clockwork she would walk right in front of me again. Once she even looked back at me before stretching, as if checking to see if I was noticing her.

[–]jackandjill22 7 points8 points  (4 children)

Yea, girls when interested often find ways to invade your line of sight so you can view their assets. Perfect example was probably 2 days ago.

Was in the shade in a Hammock relaxing in a public area. Girl & her friend immediately catch wind & move to an adjacent hammock directly facing mine, her friend starts doing(the cuter ones) hair & she starts turning over in different positions.

  • She lays on her stomach with her back facing my direction.

  • She lays down & puts her legs up & spreads them.

I kind've stare shocked at the behavior & her friend giggles every time I gaze towards their direction.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (3 children)

she lays on her stomach with her back facing my direction

so.. you were on the roof as a spiderman or where the fuck were you located :)))

[–]ACE-JHN 5 points6 points  (0 children)

FUCK.... I worked out, flossed everyday, whitened teeth, maintained my hair (have had a decent hairstyle for 2yrs), and lost 30 lbs. 20 year old male here, first day of junior year of college. Caught random girls and guys looking at me and did the "fix hair" or "look away fast". I honestly just thought i looked like shit.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Holy crap women have been like this to me for the past year. Thank you op for making me realise I'm hot.

[–]yomo86 16 points17 points  (0 children)

You are the only one who counts. Do not give a shit what men say and from this standpoint much less what fickle creatures like women say or even think.

[–]metallica11 5 points6 points  (19 children)

Even after massive physical self improvement (body that could be on boxer brief modeling ad, fitted clothes, etc), I still do not get these looks from women. It took me a LONG time to get to 10% bodyfat while keeping a high level of muscular strength.

I am not facially super attractive...maybe that has to be it?

[–]Laz_The_Kid 6 points6 points [recovered]

I have a hard time believing that if you actually have a body fat percentage of 10% that people don't stare even if you're shirtless. I was walking back from my campus pool one afternoon and I hadn't brought my change of clothes. I have about 12% bf, and some guys stared but nearly every girl I passed at least took a glance at me. Some longer than others but they all looked.

[–]metallica11 0 points1 point  (16 children)

oh! they stare, but its never women. It's always guys. I remember going to the beach one time and some guys asked what my workout routine was, ended up hanging with them and grilling. At the same time I walked past a group of girls and none of them even noticed I existed...kept to their smartphones etc.

[–]GnomeSkill 3 points4 points  (9 children)

Walk with your chest out and in proper posture. Update your style/ hair cut. You need to be able to project an aura that shows confidence and dominance. A little while ago a guy posted about how he was at a concert and said even though he is the friendliest guy in the world when he was walking around every mother fucker around him would step out of the way when he walked and all the chicks would stare him down. After reading that post I started working on it and it has helped tremendously It is hard to explain. Also make sure you always walk staring straight forward never down or up so that way you catch eye contact with everyone that passes. never break eye contact until they do

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

That post was ridiculous. Glad it helped you, though. I live in a small town and if I played that bullshit eye contact game everyone would think I'm a dickhead or retarded.

[–]GnomeSkill 1 point2 points  (0 children)

not breaking eye contact is a pretty common theme among TRP

[–]metallica11 0 points1 point  (4 children)

totally get the aura of confidence part..maybe it is because I walk a little too fast

[–]GnomeSkill 3 points4 points  (0 children)

yep slow your walk down. Chest out, Move your shoulders a little. not too much though so you don't just look like a douche. If you read Models by Mark Manson It will help greatly

[–]GIGANTIC_NIGGER_DICK 1 point2 points  (2 children)

I always speed walk everywhere. Like I'll make a conscious effort to walk as fast as possible. I guess I'm not the only one then.

[–]Laz_The_Kid 2 points2 points [recovered]

Must be the area you live. If you're from LA where every other guy is jacked and most girls look like models, then you might get ignored just because people are used to other good looking people. You'll definitely get stares in any part of the country where most people are average in looks or on college campuses since most liberal schools are majority female and the males that attend them tend to be skinny, pale, nu males who have never stepped foot in a gym.

[–]metallica11 1 point2 points  (2 children)

nah, there are a ton of overweight people around where I live. Whats odd is not that girls don't look at me, its that SO MANY guys look at me/older folks yet no girls look at me. I'd say half of guys look at me for more than usual...especially if they are out of shape etc.

but if you stick a group of 6 girls walking down the street right in front of me approaching me they would slam into me if I didn't move.

It's very odd

[–]Laz_The_Kid 2 points2 points [recovered]

Hmmm. Idk what to tell you then, except maybe there's a possibility that either you or your style exudes a homosexual vibe. That's the only reasoning I can see for your problem.

[–]metallica11 1 point2 points  (0 children)

yeah, it's very odd. I do dress more metrosexual, but that is more because it what works for me. It would be very hard for me to pull off the manly facial hair/beardy look. I can't grow any.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Self esteem is everything.

If you don't carry yourself confidently or with arrogance women will perceive you as weak no matter how you look.

[–]1animal_one 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I'm 6'4". At 19 years old, I was 141lbs. At 25 I was 160. Fast forward to a month ago and I'm 30 years old, 200lbs lean muscle. I'm sitting in a bar on a date with a petite Russian beauty, and she keeps pawing at my bare arms and calling me a brute. It's fucking surreal to have 30 years of reference experiences telling you that you're the tall, gawky kid people make auschwitz jokes about, to becoming someone women physically desire on a visceral level.

[–]SmokeyMcBlunt 2 points3 points  (4 children)

OP, how do you rate your face?

[–]Heathcliff-- 18 points18 points [recovered]

Asymmetrical, but my mum says I'm pretty.

True say though my face got "better" when I started framing it with a better haircut and put on some cheek and jaw pudge. At my skinniest I looked way too gaunt, my long hair just hid my face too and made it look too thin.

I also started shaving more often. I still have yet to develop a decent stubble/beard: so when I don't shave I look like a teenage boy who's just had his first chin pubes sprout. It gives my face an odd shadow and accentuates the wrong parts. When I shave I look older and more masculine.

[–][deleted] 5 points5 points

[permanently deleted]

[–]hoodbgoode 4 points5 points  (4 children)

this thread depresses me I'm not facially attractive or tall

[–]The1WhoCsAll 2 points3 points  (0 children)

...but if you can pick up enough 45lb plates in the gym and resist enough unhealthy plates in the kitchen, you can maintain enough female plates to satisfy yourself.

[–]-proof 3 points4 points  (7 children)

And for those of us with receding hairlines..?

[–]Rhythmic 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Lots of testosterone lead to hair loss.

Baldness can be very sexy. Except when you feel insecure about it.

Insecurity is an inside job. Stop self-sabotaging.

[–]bonekeeper 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I've been on a cruise for the last two years and I think my hair is thinning. <shrugs>

[–]Guillaume92 2 points3 points  (2 children)

A similar thing happened to me when puberty hit when I was like 13. Before that hardly any women hit on me, or gave me much attention. A few did, but literally over night something changed and girls just started staring at me in class all the time, at shopping malls, girls would even ask to take photos of me randomly in shopping malls. Being good looking is literally like being a celebrity, more so if you're a male even.

[–]Disillusi0n 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You ever been standing in line at the grocery store or something and a girl is in front of you with another guy and she looks back at you then starts shit-testing the crap out of her poor boyfriend?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (5 children)

Ive lost about 15 kg in the last year, and that was the main thing it took to make the difference that you speak of. The irony is it was my LTR cheating on me that caused it and not even in a healthy, going to the gym way. Ive been living on what are basically ready meals and my stress has been pretty high, which apparently has been enough to shift quite a lot of weight quite quickly. Ive also been drinking 4/5 nights a week which kills my appetite the next day.

This can't sound good, but my attraction level has apparently risen quite a bit. Now, Im getting the looks and whatnot. I wasnt catching onto it either but they end up telling you when theyve had a few drinks that they think youre hot.

When I was lifting it never happened. I guess I mustve just looked fat, not known how to show it off properly or that I dont really suit muscles.

Even further irony is that this Ive had a big problem with my skin for a while, and it decided to move to my face before the summer and stick around despite multiple trips to the derm. So Im a skinny(ish) dude with a red face but Im somehow getting more attention than I can remember.

Perhaps the real story though is that it was always there, but I was too cowed by my ex to realise it properly. When you're living with someone you've got that pressure on you to fucking text them loads, think bout what's for dinner, what to do at the weekend, what to watch that night, blah blah. I think that in an LTR, you chance losing all sense of your SMV and you lose touch with the very basic rules of attraction.

[–]LarParWar 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Whatever you do, DO NOT use topical steroids or anything with a corticosteroid as an ingredient.

They will fuck your shit up like nothing else. If you doubt, search for "red skin syndrome".

[–]jab1023 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I relate to "impostor syndrome" big, big time. It reminds me of the song lyric I've become spectacular, which is strange cuz I feel dumb

Good post.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

haha yeah it's definitely jarring when you get attention like that for the first time (s). You'll get used to it, but goddamn is it super uncomfortable at the outset. When you've lived in a subpar body for over a decade, with massive self esteem issues to boot, there will be significant growing pains. This is amplified even more if you're still a virgin or something. Just gotta get used to it

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Don't just dress well. Dress for your age

I could use help on this subject.

[–]slutnip 2 points3 points  (0 children)

roll your eyes at them instead of staring back, lol its fun and they get even wetter

[–]rp_phoenix 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Love this post. Great confidence booster to guys still on their way up. Having a high SMV makes everything easier newbies, please understand. If a girl looks at you and wants you inside her, all you have to do is not fuck up and be a boring ass dude when you approach, and you're golden. SMV is king.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (4 children)

I went through this a few years ago.. I've actually been lifting for over 20 years at this point.. However, a year after I completed a marathon I started getting a belly (thanks to an injury).. My gf at the time said it was a cute belly. I told her I could lose it easy and she laughted..

The next 8 weeks I got lean, like competition lean. Next thing I know even girls extremely way to young started flirting.. Started getting free coffee at the coffee shop. Cashiers would remember me week to week.

Then I went to a family function. One of my cousins looked at me and said, "jesus fucking Christ how did you get soooo ripped?" That's when it finally hit me.

[–]40_SixandTwo 7 points8 points  (5 children)

I've had this problem a ton in the past year. I'd been boxing and lifting constantly, I went from Trevor Reznik looking to Edward Elric.

I go to a very small college and there was a chick in a few of my classes who I was very attracted to. The only two problems were I was to nervous to talk to her and I was oblivious to the signals.

I was walking out of the parking garage at school one night while she was going in, I made eye contact and said hello, as I walked by, she gave me a nervous smile and didn't say anything. This happened many more times over the year. Even if I was in her vicinity, talking to someone else, she would look over to me with that nervous look, and still act like she was pre-occupied with something else.

Because of how oblivious I was, I'd convinced myself that she wasn't interested because she wasn't pouncing on me right then and there, or coming up and talking to me. I wouldn't talk to her out of fear of rejection. As I think and laugh about it, I'm convinced she was cautious about talking to me because she had the exact same thought process as me, but that roles were reversed and she was out of my league.

It happened more and more as the semester went on with other women I'd been around as well. In my opinion the biggest mindset I have to kill is that women who are interested will aggressively pounce on you, which sometimes may be true. What I'm seeing is as I up my attractiveness is they seem more shy, reserved and awkward as I interact with them.

[–]jackandjill22 5 points6 points  (3 children)

Definitely depends on the girl. Some girls depending on your SMV don't waste time. They've been searching for those tingles & every other dudes failed to show up on their radar. As soon as you've passed their litmus test they've already decided immediately you're what they're looking for.

[–]40_SixandTwo 3 points4 points  (2 children)

I think the other cause for it is most of the women in my classes already have awkward and reserved personalities to begin with.

I'm studying a field that attracts people who are socially strange.

[–]jackandjill22 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I see, interesting.(your username a Tool reference?

[–]GunsGermsAndSteel 1 point2 points  (8 children)

You can gain muscle at a very slight caloric deficit if your diet is high enough in protein. Remember that you will burn enough fat very day to compensate for the caloric deficit, thus giving your muscles the "fuel" they will need for muscle growth.

[–]AnnFranklyMyDear 1 point2 points  (2 children)

I don't lift because I'm not really full TRP yet, but I'm 6'5 and classically handsome. I am one of the lucky ones who is a good looking guy without much effort. I was the biggest beta of all time. I used to think people stared at me because I looked strange, but when I got to the end of my twenties I realised people, usually women, were checking me out. It was such a rarity that anybody ever told me I was attractive that I spent ten years thinking I was a freak.

As I walked past them in the street they would stare at me with an anxious frown, then when I caught them they'd look away or look at the floor while playing with their hair.

Women will be discreet about it. You have to be looking for it to notice it. If you really need the validation and reassurance that you're attractive (we all do at some point) then just watch women as you walk past them. See if they glance at you and look to the side or at the floor as if they're worried you'll catch them.

It's actually pretty adorable.

[–]Nikelu 1 point2 points  (2 children)

You have no clue how close this post hits home. I thought I have a problem . I wouldn't call myself a 10 but more like 7-8+ . I was an alpha-looking beta . I was getting looks everyday and every hour. I was asking my friends what's wrong and if I have something dirty on me or anything or if they are getting checked out as well and they told me no. I thought I had a psychosis . Until one day I look back. How many girls looked at me and smirked when I looked back how many succeses I had with women I approached and gamed how many ons I had with zero lmr and I give myself a good look in the mirror. Hell for god sake I look better than at least 80% of the dudes out there. I was pretty lucky to get good genetics , nice facial hair and a good face and I was a swimmer from the age of 5 till now. Slapped with a good 2 years of gym I am near my peak . Women will try to even avoid you to not show interest while their pussy is wet as fk. Stop wasting time.

By the way how to cold approach tho ? Just go and say hey whats up? Its not so common in my country to cold approach . But tbh everytime i do it or sm1 else comes up to me I feel really good and it makes my day. So I suppose it's the same for them as well

[–]I_Need_More_Space_ 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This may have already been commented. But as your SMV increases, women will begin to let you go first in a doorway, they will begin to apologize much more for many things that don't even need an apology (like walking in front of you slightly cutting you off and looking back over the shoulder, but there was still plenty of room), women pretty much start to pedestalize YOU. Not all women do that. But, its a good sign you're on the right track.

[–]bigdickedtyrone 2 points2 points [recovered]

Are you sure that women fixing her hair after looking at you is always an IOI?

I heard that women do this just unconsciously, for usually no reason at all. So many women at my work do this when they see me. I doubt all of them find me attractive.

[–][deleted] 2 points2 points

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