ScienceStudy Says Women 77% as Productive As Men (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by grewapair

According to a recent study:

"Men could work between 55 and 60 hours per week before their cognitive function dropped lower than if they were working no hours at all. For women, the number of working hours that produced the same result was between 45 and 50"


So when you hear the misleading statistic that women are only paid 77 cents of what men are paid, it is absolutely the way it should be. 60 hours that men can work translates into 46 hours that women can work. 60*.77=46

Of course, it's not what happens in the real world: men and women are paid the same for the same job. But women provide 77 percent less. The next time someone quotes that statistic, fire back this study.

[–]jab1023 178 points179 points  (15 children)

Interesting timing of this post.

Today my desk was moved to where our management team is (obvious to everyone.) I also got double the standard pay raise (just found out today, only management and I know) There was a lot of good-natured "You're moving up in the world," stuff.

Then one a female coworker had to insinuate I was successful because I was a man.

Maybe I'm successful because I show up for work, don't take a sick day once a week, don't run around like the fucking world is ending when I'm busy, and prioritize my shit like a fucking adult.

Or just because I'm a dude.

Either way: Fucking deal with it.

[–][deleted] 65 points66 points  (5 children)

Get that bitch fired, keep a log of interactions. Had a bitch giving me stink eye for 3 months and she finally found her shot to corner me and took it. I came in and killed it and all her friends complained that I was stirring shit up too much, they ganged up. Had no interaction with them and they were just nasty, I think due to gossip. I gotta watch that next time obviously. HR gave no fucks about my side of the story. Dog eat dog and shit, if you sense her has a threat do not hesitate. Nobody gives a fuck about anyone, only dollars in and liabilities. Edit: fuckin' congrats though, sorry if that scares you just that shit is just so fresh in my mind. Twice I've been on top of it in new competitive jobs world and then ganged up on by feminazis/SJWs. Edit 2: 3 months after she propositioned me, so it wasn't 100% random. There was a post once about the 3 ways women act after it's clear you don't want them, wish I could find it... link/title anyone? Cheers

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (1 child)

perhaps next time turn down the proposition in a less clear manner?

Respond with "sure" but then... your schedule is just always too busy isn't it a shame wouldn't that be nice oh look at the time gotta run see ya!

OR find a way to turn her down in such a way that she feels good about it, like it was her decision not to pursue.

Just some thoughts. Curious to hear how the proposition and turn down went

[–]foldpak111 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Record everything. It's not totally necessary at my job (though you can never be too careful) as a maintenance apprentice at our local steel mill surrounded by sweaty tradesmen, but if anyone were too accuse me falsely of anything, they'd be screwed because I have a dashcam in the work vehicle and a spycam on my body.

[–]1mojo_juju 9 points10 points  (1 child)

Congrats bro, that's fucking awesome!

What is your field/industry background? (feel free to be vague)

[–]jab1023 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm a technical writer / ad-hoc project manager at a software company. I have an AAS in Technical Communication and a BS in Organizational Communication.

[–][deleted] 5 points5 points

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[–]foldpak111 5 points6 points  (2 children)

The crazy truth is that minorities are privileged. Police can't patrol certain neighborhoods because they don't understand the "culture" (yes, this is a real thing), sub prime mortgage lending to minorities who can not afford a down payment, and grants/scholarships for being muslim or a women. As a white male, I've been homeless, scrounging under furniture as a child for coins, and faced severe discrimination as a youth for being short and smarter than everyone else.

All white privilege is, is a leftist-bullshit term to shut anyone up who isn't part of a minority group to gain political power. That is all it is. It's fascism of the highest order.

[–]Endorsed ContributorAFPJ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Checking in. Not generally one for "sharing". Peachy family life aside - homeless, in multiple fights (with knives and other weapons) by 14. Had I not gone to school on my own and enrolled in the military I'd be another whimsical black on white murder stat, which isn't good for perpetuating any agenda, so I doubt it'd even be in local news or papers.

[–]foldpak111 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I had a migraine when I woke up yesterday. Felt like throwing up, ultra sensitive to sunlight, and generally feeling like a bag of shit. Still went in to work, explained my situation, and had a rocky start my foreman was expecting... Still didn't call off, though. Now if it were a woman with a migraine, she'd more likely call off. And the SJW assistant manager actually accused me of being successful because I was a white male. Fuck out of here.

[–]dcarson10 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Isn't her assuming you got the promotion because you're a man the same as assuming women only deserve 77% of a man's pay because she's a woman?

[–]proxy_n00b 38 points39 points  (4 children)

Interesting read, but in the service of thoroughness, it's worth point out that the study also said that women's baseline cognitive function tended to be higher than men's, so from an employer's perspective this information is a double edged sword. (Of course, cognitive function is useless if the worker in question in being too over emotional to actually get anything done, or is a disruptive influence on the workplace.

[–]razormachine 44 points45 points  (2 children)

Cognitive function is a good indicator of potential productivity in some jobs, but not all. The real question is "How much money does a man receive for every X he makes, and how much money does a woman produce for every X she makes?

From personal experience on 13 different jobs, on every job: man had the same pay per hour as female coworkers, man worked longer hours than female workers, and man had higher productivity then the female workers.

A real study would probably show that the wage gap is real. However it is the man who are being paid less for the same amount of work.

[–]proxy_n00b 9 points10 points  (1 child)

Fair enough, and good points. Upvoted.

[–]slay_it_forward -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

Downvoted for needing to say that you upvoted.

[–]playingwithfyre 10 points11 points  (0 children)

This does coincide with studies that have more or less said that on average women are smarter. They have more efficient use of grey matter. They also have a higher emotional IQ on average. Where men best women is strength and top tier mental horsepower.

The smartest men are smarter than the smartest women.

Lots of people have mentioned here that women make great supervisors and middle managers, I tend to agree, so long as you can subject them to performance based metrics.

The reason why most CEOs are men is one part halo effect and one part this. The smartest people, in terms of absolutes, are mostly men. But the statement that the average woman is smarter than the average man can also be true.

That being said, I've seen that the maturity gap and the differences between male centric and female centric behavior is enough to totally demolish that advantage. The hardest pill for me to swallow was that women stopped maturing after the age of 18, but the more I put women under that lens, the more I realized it was true.

[–]Endorsed ContributorBluepillProfessor 260 points261 points  (64 children)

Yet they make 79 Cents on the dollar.

I always tell my classes: Imagine a company with a Billion in revenue and 500,000,000.00 in employee costs with just $100,000,000.00 in profit.

That company could save more than $100,000,000.00 and DOUBLE their profits simply by firing all the men, hiring women and paying them 79 cents on the dollar.

I let it go until somebody "gets it."

"Wait, but that assumes the women you hire and pay less are going to do the same amount of work as the men."

Yes, yes it does. So IF the meme of women being paid less than they are worth is true.....THEN why hasn't any company pursued this winning strategy? There are tens of thousands of companies. Why hasn't even one of them tried this?

The bratty girls always lose their shit when I tell them: "The market determines your value. If you are being paid 79 cents on the dollar as a group, this means your group does about 79% of the work as the group that gets paid 100%.

The bitches fume and complain but they have no answer because there is no answer. It is the truth.

[–][deleted] 102 points103 points  (0 children)

Unfortunately by federal law you have to pretend to give a shit

[–]1Entropy-7[🍰] 46 points47 points  (14 children)

I had a similar experience teaching grade 12 economics and the unit on wage determinants. The class thought the wage gap was such an injustice until I went though systematically and explained what things give you higher or lower earnings. By the end of merely an hour or so, intelligent people realize how much bullshit this is.

[–]greatslyfer 25 points26 points  (12 children)

"intelligent people"

That's the problem right there, not enough of those around.

[–]Russingram 16 points17 points  (11 children)

Half the population has a lower than average IQ.

[–]Jakedagreat 3 points4 points  (6 children)

Unless there are some really high outlier IQs that overcome the low outlier IQs but I have a feeling that isn't the case lol

[–]BoTuLoX 11 points11 points [recovered]

IQ follows a bell curve. You have your outliers in both ends, but the bulk will be concentrated around the average.

[–]razormachine 3 points4 points  (1 child)

That's true. about 70% are between 85 and 115. And here comes the problem. If your IQ is 100 (average) society feels just fine. From your perspective there are dumb people and there are smart people. If you for instance consider everybody with an IQ 15 points below you to be an idiot, and everybody with an IQ 15 above you to be a smartass you live in a world with 16% idiots, 16% smartass and a bunch of average people. And everything looks just fine :)

However if your IQ is for instance 115, everybody with an IQ below 100 is a dumbass, everybody with an IQ in the range of 100-130 is average and anyone with a +130 IQ is a smartass.

From your perspective 50% of humanity is composed of idiots, there are like 48% of the humanity is average, and 2% of humanity is smartass.

If your IQ is for instance 130 then 84% of people are idiots, 14% are average and there are a couple of guys on the whole world who are smart compared to you.

Guys with +145 IQ essentially live in a idiocracy.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I'm not sure that's actually true. About 15% really smart people and the rest pretty dumb. Some of those work harder than others but they are still not smart.

[–]SetConsumes 1 point2 points  (3 children)

IQ is less of an issue vs having a mindset of questioning and valuing knowledge. Many great people were not much better than average intelligence wise.

[–]3savoryprunes 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is very true. I've encountered people with low intelligence who are fun to be around and talk to simply because they are curious and open to new ideas. Whether they understand a concept or not is of less importance. The childlike wonder is key.

In contrast, the above-average intellect who thinks he knows everything is unbearable.

[–]growingstronk -1 points0 points  (1 child)

Ill take that even further and say that "intelligence" is for the most part binary.

You are either capable of understanding and storing information, or you're not

The top 1% of genetical brilliance are smarter than everyone else at birth and forever. The rest are limited only by the amount of knowledge they intake

Edit: proofreading

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Knowledge =/= intelligence =/= wisdom.

And none of those mean anything if you don't have the willpower and work habits to use them.

[–]allnamesfckintaken 6 points7 points  (0 children)

the logic of it is simply too sound to deny. most of the shit radical feminists are saying right now is ridiculous anyway. it has nothing to do with logic for them. it doesnt need to make sense, it just needs to give them what they want. that's special treatment for being born inferior to men. that's what it comes down to. the question becomes, should a group of people get special treatment simply because they were born inferior? is that fair? maybe it would be fair if women didnt specifically choose men who were superior to them. that's how they've been mating since the beginning. social welfare that evens that out would then put men at a disadvantage in the mating game.

[–]Gardrothard 32 points33 points  (18 children)

Actually that's what foreign companies do in my country. Most of the workers are women (but they work on the lowest positions). The women work 10-12 hours a day. They wear adult diapers because they aren't allowed to leave for bathroom break.

Almost all of them have children. They use the fact that they need to do whatever it takes to support them so they make them work in these inhumane conditions because the women have no other option but to put up with that.

My friend's mother was carrying heavy bags of cement after her regular job to support him and his sister while her husband spent his time n the computer all day long. After a few years, she looked like it's been 10 or more. Then he divorced her and she left the house they had and went to live with her parents. He found some young woman.

This is a very common picture in my country - a woman who's slaving all day and her husband is just sitting at home watching TV. And after she comes home from work she's cooking and cleaning.

The selfishness and entitlement of women in US isn't about all women being like that, it's about almost all people being like that. It's what happens when one group is protected way more than others - they end up being parasites.

[–]Imperial_Forces 20 points21 points  (6 children)

which country are you from?

[–]allnamesfckintaken 20 points21 points  (1 child)

sounds like a fake story to me. why would they hire women to carry cement when they could carry 1/2 as much as men at best. a bathroom break takes 5 mins, they cant give the person 15 minutes in 12 hours to take a piss? sitting in piss to work is probably very distracting and it reduces their efficiency anyway. as for the man sitting at home then getting a new wife, why in the fuck would that young girl marry him if he's old and has no income? there are plenty of young guys in his position too.

[–]Gardrothard 0 points1 point  (0 children)


This article is by one of the most respected newspaper here. They are one of the few independent and objective ones. You can use Google Translate to make sense of it.

The thing is that they hire poor people. Men here aren't that submissive and feminine, and they don't want to put up with these things. They expect everything that you guys expect from women, but unlike most here, they do not work on themselves. They get these things from women without providing much.

The women are mostly submissive and in most cases the man owns the house they live in so they can't divorce. And someone has to work to feed the kids...It's the women who are the ones willing to go through that to make some money.

Well, she wasn't 20 years old, she was post wall, although much younger than him, and she's from Greece. So no matter how poor he is he's probably a good deal for her.

[–]Cgn38 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Arab countryside? Only place where the women do most of the work.

[–]RedditIsDumb4You 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Eh plenty of third world shit holes where they can't exactly demand child support when the guy just fucks off

[–]Gardrothard 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Serbia. These things happen in small towns. In Belgrade it's a different story.

[–][deleted] 17 points18 points  (0 children)

Jesus. That's appalling.

"The selfishness and entitlement of women in US isn't about all women being like that, it's about almost all people being like that. It's what happens when one group is protected way more than others - they end up being parasites."

That sounds about right.

[–]allnamesfckintaken 6 points7 points  (2 children)

They wear adult diapers because they aren't allowed to leave for bathroom break.

is this real? what country is this?

[–]srell 1 point2 points  (1 child)

He could be from North Carolina, according to this article in Bloomberg.

[–]allnamesfckintaken 0 points1 point  (0 children)

TIL that this could happen in america.

[–]direpellth 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The women work 10-12 hours a day. They wear adult diapers because they aren't allowed to leave for bathroom break.

Almost all of them have children. They use the fact that they need to do whatever it takes to support them so they make them work in these inhumane conditions because the women have no other option but to put up with that.

That sounds terrible. What country are you from?

Edit: I see several others have asked the same question already. It's just that I've literally never heard of this. Ans this is common where you live?

[–]madethewrongmistake 0 points1 point  (3 children)

I definitely see this getting worse with each generation in the US, so I can agree that work ethic has a large cultural component, although AWALT springs to life when you add wealth to any culture. It seems to me that the wealthiest men always engross themselves in work, and the wealthiest women never do.

But I think you have a unique perspective, so I have a question for you. What is the culture in which you find women to be most exceptional as wife/mother/business partner material? Roughly along the lines of intelligence, work ethic, health/fitness, attitude.

[–]Gardrothard 4 points5 points  (2 children)

That's a very good question. I don't know enough about cultures around the world to provide any somewhat objective response.

I don't honestly think that some egalitarian society is possible, in fact any society in which there is any kind of equality. As soon as something like that emerges it tends to drive one way or the other. It puts people in a position in which everyone is using the same strategy. The more people use a given strategy the easier it gets to exploit it.

Let me compare mating in rural parts and Belgrade.

In rural parts it's mostly patriarchy. Women tend to be loyal, submissive, obedient, very feminine. The relationships are a lot like Marriage 1.0. Some girls find good husbands who provide, in turn they are good mothers and wives. But in many cases they end up with a man who ends up treating them like slaves. There are many sad stories about women suffering violence at home and being unable to do anything because there is not a lot of support and they have children and poor income. Old women would even say things like they cannot leave their husbands no matter how they treat them. "If he wants to kick the shit out of you you need to let him because he's your husband. It's shameful to get divorced". These things aren't that common anymore since we are becoming westernized but there's still enough to observe. Bottom line, men have power and in most cases they will abuse it.

On the other hand, there's Belgrade and other larger cities. Things are pretty much the same as they are in the west - CC, "empowered women", a lot of beta males who are completely clueless about reality. Although women here take a lot more care about their appearance. There were only 2 fat girls in my high school (around 800 students). In this environment it's women who seem to have more power and they abuse it too.

In first case, it's the women who are "blind" picking and who put more effort into developing skills that attract males. Very often women end up with men who are lower value than they are. In the other it's the opposite.

The first kind has cooking skills, they are submissive, they respect their husbands, they are good mothers. But they very often aren't educated and spend their free time gossiping. They will work, but they won't do engineering or any similar work. Wife 5/5, Mother 5/5, Business partner 0/5, Intelligence 1/5, Work Ethics 5/5, Attitude 3/5 (kind and respectful towards men but can be bitches towards women). The other kind of women are better educated, but they will expect a lot in return (solipsism). Interestingly, the more women I meet the more it becomes clear that they just go through education, they don't actually get educated. They finish schools based on memorization, they have don't know how to think, they have no interests besides some superficial ones that are there to attract males. Well, they do if you count Instagram, Facebook and taking selfies. If I try to talk to them about topics such as philosophy or science when alone they give me the look "Why would we talk about these, there is no one around but us". It's really depressing. The ones with interests seem to be the ugly ones. Bottom line, these girls are pretty much like your US, except that they aren't fat and loud. I don't think that many of them provide more than the first group, all they have is education but it's worth nothing in most cases, so it doesn't really increase their value.

The first and second kind can make 180 degree turn in case they end up in a different place, though.

Honestly, I've been able to look at women in much more real light than most men have, and I can tell you, in most cases, once you strip away things that are there to attract males, it's empty. Women have no personalities, no passions, no interests, they are like chameleons, just mimicking the things around them. They go to college to live in a different city and ride CC so they don't ruin their reputation, or they go because they want to find a man there, or they go because they think it will make them interesting. The percentage of them that goes because of passion and interest is negligible.

Anyways, to summarize my answer. There are no these or those women, there are no kinds, there are no personalities, they are just an empty paper that will have the picture you want it to have (that is in case they respect you). If you know how to do it then it doesn't make any difference from which culture they came and how they were raised, they can be what you need.

[–]rockymountainoysters 1 point2 points  (1 child)

You made me fall off my chair when you typed "as a women" [sic] but fyi, that's technically against the rules here to appeal to your gender as a source of authority.

I hope you leave the rest of this marvelous post up and just modify that one bit.

[–]Gardrothard 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Oh, I'm sorry for breaking the rules, thanks for pointing it out.

I said it because I thought it would show that I've been able to observe from the inside, but come to think about it, it's just a speculation anyways so it's kind of pointless to add it.

[–]xBonerDetective 2 points3 points  (0 children)


What is this?

[–]jimmyharbrah 4 points5 points  (8 children)

Also, women--as a group--are far less likely to organize.

[–]dracolius 8 points9 points  (7 children)

This seems true, but I'd love to see more evidence of it. They seem to have no difficulty 'organizing' for trivial celebrations or hobbies, so I wonder what exactly would make those kinds of things different for women than unionizing.

[–]Zoober_The_Goober 12 points13 points  (0 children)

They seem pretty good at organizing harassment campaigns on twitter.

[–]Senior Contributordr_warlock 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Women organize to complain until a MAN does something about it. Or they partially 'assault' knowing men will back them up.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You can have a great organization, but without strong leadership it won't really do anything or go anywhere.

Women are fucking amazing at organization, they just suck at leadership.

I think most people mistake the leaders for the organizers.

[–]bornredd -3 points-2 points  (3 children)

Organizing for confrontation requires assertiveness, which is trained out of most women at an early age.

[–]allnamesfckintaken 4 points5 points  (2 children)

which is trained out of most women at an early age.

lol how? why is it that in a group of men, some are assertive and some are not? what explains this? isnt all men trained to be assertive? if it's possible to indirectly train every woman to be assertive, then why isnt every man assertive? i assume it's indirect because there is no system i know of that does it to women.

how come in 10000 years of recorded human history, no woman has ever found a civilization or written any great philosophical treatise? all she had to do was talk about it with people at the market like socrates. who is gonna stop her from talking to people? how come no woman came up with some crazy mathematical theories? in the beginning, there were no teachers. euclid just thought about shit that made sense. who taught him and who encouraged him?

[–]bornredd 2 points3 points  (1 child)

isnt all men trained to be assertive?

Look around the world and tell me all men are assertive - because most aren't. I look around and see "men" living soulless lives because they aren't willing to push others for what they want.

Women are more prone to community focus rather than individual, and our society teaches girls to not speak up as children because, let's face it, kids act like assholes, so we teach them not to be assholes.

Girls don't want to upset the group, so they stop pushing.

[–]anylegtypes 5 points5 points [recovered]

There are some companies that have tried it and it's worked - for example, Boost Juice does quite well and their staff is dominated by women (no idea if this is hiring practice or simply more women apply).

[–]Endorsed Contributorzyk0s 10 points11 points  (3 children)

Women are preferred in cashier and other visible positions because they entice customers to come. That's a well known fact. I'm pretty sure the employees that work back of house are mostly male.

[–]allnamesfckintaken 3 points4 points  (1 child)

not only that but women are naturally more personable than men. they just enjoy interact with people and being friendly.

[–]Endorsed Contributorzyk0s 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I wonder how much that is a factor of people just being nicer when interacting with women in general (attractiveness, neoteny), so they'd enjoy it more, and how much of it is tied to their evolutionarily developed social acuity. It doesn't really matter at the end of the day, it's undeniable that women are more desirable in positions heavy on human contact.

[–]hippydipster 7 points8 points  (1 child)

Are they paying below market rates for those women employees?

[–][deleted] 3 points3 points

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[–]hahayeahthatscool 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes and for some reason every barista is always a young woman. It's a fucking mystery.

[–]hairaware 0 points1 point  (0 children)

unskilled labour doesnt really matter for shit. if they administrative and executives were all women then maybe wed have a talking point.

[–]allnamesfckintaken 0 points1 point  (0 children)

there really is no answer. nothing can explain why all women wouldnt be hired if they were really doing the same work but paid less. in fact, men SHOULD be paid more since you can always count on him to sacrifice his personal life for his work.

[–]absoluteskeptic 0 points1 point  (1 child)

there are lots of companies that do this

[–]Rommel0502 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Spot on. Despite the governments best efforts to fuck with it, the market solves all of these issues. There is a reason people make what they do.

[–]1Goomich -1 points0 points  (1 child)

[–]allnamesfckintaken 0 points1 point  (0 children)

hahahaaha. an app to help women with comebacks. that's just too good. holy shit.

[–]TermsOfColors 89 points90 points  (11 children)

In my current gig, it's been a brutal mental exercise coaxing proper requirements out of the two female BA's that are assigned to the project. Even after working in this company and in this department for more than 20 years between them, I get the impression they are nearly clueless about the workflows and processes that move information through their little corner of the business. I get blatantly wrong information, I get conflicting information between them and they often contradict themselves from sentence to sentence on the simplest concepts.

My point is, it's not just that they are unproductive in their own roles. They often are a drag on the productivity of those around them. It has been a Herculean effort on my part just maintaining my sanity. But hey, like they say, "It's your dime". If I didn't bill by the hour I would've quit that motherfucker months ago.

[–]playingwithfyre 47 points48 points  (7 children)

  • Step 1 : Setup KPIs
  • Step 2 : Remedial training under the guise of "advanced training" with use of KPIs. Call it "advanced data driven management."
  • Step 3 : Do the job yourself and others that are competent in the role.
  • Step 4 : Place them into this role formally.
  • Step 5 : Start formal process of transitioning them out of the company with your newly formed meritocracy sledge.

"I'm having trouble with two really talented employees in my department that are having trouble meeting productivity metrics. They're the only ones in the department that can't hit them. I would hate to demote them or fire them, they have a lot of positive qualities to them, but the metrics are showing me that something is wrong. What do you propose I do with the situation?"

Have some variation of this meeting with people you are subordinate to on a semi frequent basis. Eventually it'll start raining hammers.

Just be careful to craft the process in a way to remove all ways they can blame shift.

Since it sounds like you're a contractor, the best thing you can do is just keep billing them for things that they're under-delivering on.

"I just wanted to let you know that your billing was 5 hours higher this period because I'm having trouble with two of your employees. They seem to have a lot of heart, but trouble following the directions given without a lot of follow up. I don't mind the billings of course, but I'd rather hit performance objectives than have a higher billing."

[–]Real_Pokemon 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Fantastic contribution. You start a series- paralleling Vasily's "Corporateland" concept. Would add a lot of value to the community.

[–]wile_E_coyote_genius 5 points6 points  (3 children)

Not your first rodeo judging by this post. This should be on the sidebar.

[–]playingwithfyre 8 points9 points  (2 children)

Ran my own company for a while and just getting back into corporate land. I used to hate this kind of stuff, but as I've gotten more and more red I'm just indifferent.

The key point I've learned through everything is that everything is game. You create systems in all ways of your life to deal with your issues. When you try and directly manage these employees, you're in their frame. The creation of KPIs and a meritocracy is used to specifically mitigate this issue and bring them into your frame. You have abundance mentality. When KPIs slip you start to dread. Then you soft next, then you hard next.

If you can't create a system to solve your problem, then it's not likely your problem is solvable, only manageable in a short term.

The reply above you is a solution to the problem, trying to talk to these two employees and directly manage their performance would only be a bandaid.

I will make a post about this, because the post itself isn't sidebar material but the general gist of it I think is.

The world is a game.

[–]massivewang 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Had to look it up, I'm sure I'm not the only one who doesn't know the acronym. Thanks for expanding my knowledge.:

"A key performance indicator (KPI) is a business metric used to evaluate factors that are crucial to the success of an organization. KPIs differ per organization; business KPIs may be net revenue or a customer loyalty metric, while government might consider unemployment rates."

[–]TermsOfColors 0 points1 point  (1 child)

The project just took a lot longer because of the lack of communication, knowledge, and general apathy towards the analyst work they are supposed to be doing. It's not rocket science, and I can fill in the gaps enough to get my part done. But it's their business and someone has to sign off on it eventually.

As far as the KPI stuff goes, it looks good on paper but in reality the vast majority of companies go through the motions on that stuff. It is almost 90% or more pure politics than any sort of performance metrics, whether they be real or imaginary.

[–]playingwithfyre 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If your company treats KPIs like popups, you've got better places to be.

[–][deleted] 14 points15 points  (2 children)

They are likely protected, possibly get boned by someone higher up. Or they're related to someone within the company. While women generally aren't as geared towards work, accomplishment and a basic application of logical problem solving as we are, there are still ones who can do a decent enough job to not drag down everyone else.

[–]FriedHayek 2 points3 points  (0 children)

They're decorative, and the saddest part is that they don't get it themselves.

[–]TermsOfColors 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I can think of a few that fit that description, and a lot more that got a foot in the door because someone WANTED to bone them.

[–]razormachine 54 points55 points  (11 children)

Of course, it's not what happens in the real world: men and women are paid the same for the same job. But women provide 77 percent less.

Yes but since her grandmother was oppressed by her grandfather she should get more money then you. You misogynistic scum.

[–]TermsOfColors 37 points38 points  (3 children)

The irony being, her grandfather probably broke his back keeping food on the table and a roof over their heads. Hopefully her grandmother didn't hen-peck him too much.

[–]razormachine 21 points22 points  (1 child)

The real irony is that even if her grandmother was oppressed by her grandfather, your grandmother was also oppressed by your grandfather. Yet somehow she is eligible to entitlement and you are scum :D

[–]Tallsmarthandsome 25 points26 points  (0 children)

The victim gene is recessive and only inherited by women, the abuser gene is dominant and only inherited by men...double helix was discovered by racists, so Chromosomes are a social construct!

[–]fakenate1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No, my grandfather was a drunk mean Indian from the Rez who divorced my Italian Catholic grandmother and never did anything good with his life.

[–]TheAC997 18 points19 points  (5 children)

"All throughout history, men oppressed women" just means that half of my ancestors oppressed half of her ancestors, and half of her ancestors oppressed half of my ancestors (if it were true). I have no clue why they make this argument.

[–]Tallsmarthandsome 10 points11 points  (1 child)

The entire economic narrative of civilization is protect women and children at all costs. The idea that women are oppressed was invented within the last few hundred years. Do you actually think Europeans 500 years ago thought the world was flat? That idea was put into our culture by literary artists writing fiction in the 1800's.

[–]razormachine 7 points8 points  (0 children)

They were so busy with oppressing anyone that they really didn't have the time to think about the shape of the earth.

[–]razormachine 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Exactly even if they were oppressed! It's not like man and woman are two separate races or species and one of those species was oppressed. It's not like she had four grandmothers, and you had four grandfathers. Female logic is "I want free stuff" and that every argument that grants woman free stuff is perfectly logical.

[–]BlacknOrangeZ 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Gender is a social construct! Gimme reparations you fucking male!

[–]juliusstreicher 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Because Patriarchy, dammit!

[–]Tuga_Lissabon 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Then grewapair should get more money because HIS grandmother was oppressed by HIS grandfather.

And she should get LESS because HER father oppressed HER mother.

Not really an argument there, you can't inherit oppression from your parents because you had both a father and a mother, and so it evens out.

Now, if we inherited from our FATHERS only and our sisters inherited frm our MOTHERS only - that'd be a real thing.

[–]theneoroot 111 points112 points  (9 children)

Study Says Women 77% as Productive As Men

But women provide 77 percent less

Did you work over 60 hours this week? Because your cognitive function seems low today. Whatever, that can be said to be a brainfart of yours, but this:

60 hours that men can work translates into 46 hours that women can work

Are you actually this dumb? The article didn't say shit about men only being able to do a 55-60 hour week and women a 45-50 one, that's how long they can mantain peak function. Not only that but 55-60 for men morphed to 60 and 45-50 morphed to 46?

Keep your emotions out of science trp threads, you're not a woman, use logic.

[–]Endorsed ContributorMarsupian 39 points40 points  (0 children)

Yes its a shit conclusion and it doesnt justify the wage gap because there is no wage gap.

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (1 child)

OP's reading of the article is either retarded or purposefully misleading. The actual info:

  • cognitive performance starts at a baseline with 0 hours worked, and actually increases up to a peak

  • the value of the peak is about the same for both sexes, with women's slightly higher

  • from the peak it decreases until it returns to the baseline value

With a bit of math, using linear interpolation and using the US average full-time employed workweek of 47 hours for men and 38.5 hours for women, we get a total integrated average output (productivity multiplied by time) of

2198 for women

2694 for men

Under this admittedly simplistic model, assuming identical labour composition, equal pay for equal work would translate to a gender pay income gap of 2198/2694=81%.

In short, men simply work significantly longer hours and are overall more productive thanks to greater endurance.

[–][deleted] 16 points17 points  (0 children)

Thank god someone said this: OP took one line from an article about a study and made the rest up to fill the gap in his narrative.

This is as bad as what the snake venom eater's of the Appalachian Church of Holiness do.

[–]bebestman 3 points4 points  (0 children)

To continue the critique, the article also states

Women’s cognitive peaks tended to be higher than men’s on all three tests, [...]

Which very well could mean that cognitive function times working time is similar to men. Or higher. Or lower. Point is we can't draw this conclusion from the secondary source OP provided.

Note further that the study doesn't state that 60h is the limit of work - we get that data from other studies on work and they come to drastically lower bounds for various reasons - as you don't need to maintain peak capacity.

It doesn't even end there as even the title says that a three day work week is optimal. I would be surprised if anyone could sustain a 60h work week with only three days, so obviously the article draws from another part of the original source to make claims about optimal work time and output.

Keep your emotions out of science trp threads

I cringe every time I see TRP posts claiming that men surpass a woman in every aspect. Men and women are different and neither is superior in each and every sense. Why should they be, evolutionary speaking?

[–]FutureInvestment 1 point2 points  (0 children)

lol... 23% less. 77% as productive.

[–]playingwithfyre 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Did you work over 60 hours this week? Because your cognitive function seems low today.


[–]justinjj1 42 points43 points  (5 children)

Anybody who actually works with women know that they don't even really work but maybe 30% of the time. The rest of the time they sit around and gossip and chat with each other.

[–]fruit7 11 points11 points [recovered]

Then they shit-talk the men around them actually working hard to their employers because they're afraid their job is on the line

[–]Orbiter42 2 points3 points  (0 children)

i've seen men do that! Yea, its common with women. Their are tons of jobs i've worked, that those guys had it easy, spending the day talking about hunting and fishing, doing an hour of work in a 10 hour day. I'd be their trying to prove myself with good old fashioned elbow grease. They didn't like that, and got rid of me. next job, was the shittiest thing I ever had to do, and they loved me because i worked, and took it seriously.

[–]beginner_ 3 points4 points  (0 children)

That's why this open space office thingy is utter crap. I now have my own, albeit small office. Soon we will move to a brand new building, with Open Space office. I have to do mentally challenging task all day (data science stuff, programming, and so forth). i think I will reserve a conference room 24/7.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yup. I've had three girls on my team and none of them were productive. They were dramatic, whiny, gossipy, and mostly buried in snapchatting like some wanna-be celebrity. Two of them worked simultaneously in full-time positions doing the work of one part-time position. I watched them sit on their phones for about three-quarters of their day, not counting they would call in once a week.

When they found out that their position was getting absorbed into another role that wouldn't afford them such leisure, they all promptly switched jobs to the easiest stuff available.

[–]AlerioX 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Absolutely, it doesn't matter where you go, to an office at the university, to an optometrist, to the girls at the hospitels counter - they always sit around and talk. It's ridiculous.

[–]∞ Mod | RP Vanguardbsutansalt 26 points27 points  (5 children)

It's not that they provide 77% less, it's that they have a workload capacity that's 77% of what men have. It's interesting that this mental toughness is right on par with women's physical strength to men's.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (2 children)

Is it though? I haven't seen any numbers but off hand I would assume women are on average more than 33% less physically as strong as men. Most men, even those that don't lift, could probably lift a lot more than 33% more than women.

[–]Galactic-Unicorn 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I quite agree. There are some women at my gym that lift religiously and are quickly outlifted by novice men that are just starting to lift.

[–]Entrefut 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Well strength is also a weird one because you need to do some adjustments. It's not that they lift less, that's a given. It's that they lift less with respect to their body weight.

[–]stemgang 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Agreed. This study's conclusion is not so hard to understand, but it is being willingly misinterpreted all over Reddit.

[–]drumnation 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Can't wait until all work is automated by machines. Both men and women are going to complain about how productive they used to be until machines made working at all unnecessary.

[–]juliusstreicher 10 points11 points  (2 children)

Can anybody help me out? I'm looking for a researcher who is soon to be expelled/fired, and I can't imagine where to look...

[–]AlerioX 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Shinya Kajitani, Colin McKenzie and Kei Sakata.
But if they are fired, Shinya and Kei can play the racism card.

[–]playingwithfyre 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Researchers are usually pretty well guarded and most of them wait till tenure to do this kind of stuff. The ones that do get fired generally are successful at sueing.

It's probably the one area you're safe in so long as you are not blatantly against the grain. You just have to wrap it up in enough double speak and libtalk.

At the end of the research just say it requires more research as to why. Even though everyone that reads it knows why. That men are stronger than women.

[–]InformalCriticism 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I work for the government and this has been my experience.

The women get by with not knowing how to do their job, not knowing how to use computers, and lying to supervisors about their productivity (or reasons for lacking it).

Most of these women, because they have years and years of federal service are compensated at a higher rate than me, and I'm outperforming them with less than a year in their field. They are paid more and given more time off per pay period.

One of the senior managers, however, has said the cream does rise to the top, it just takes time. Yet, in the same conversation he will encourage me to find employment elsewhere, because he recognizes the ridiculousness of them.

Even the operations manager of the division, when addressing a group of us new hires - all male - he mentioned the fact that almost all the problems that we faced in our office were caused by women.

At first, I thought that candor was pretty unprofessional. I still do, but he wasn't saying it just to be some kind of sexist. They are slow, and they slow everyone around them down; they're force dividers instead of force multipliers.

[–]Senior Endorsed ContributorVasiliyZaitzev 15 points16 points  (1 child)

Study Says Women 77% as Productive As Men

Wage Gap, Justified.

(And yes, I know it's not really $0.77. The joke was there.)

[–]AlerioX 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Yesterday I was visiting my doctor just asking about a vaccine.
She was building up a 67 minute conversation while it could have been done in under three minutes.
Yeah, they aren't that productive.
Never happended to me with a male doctor.

[–]Galactic-Unicorn 2 points3 points  (0 children)

One doctor that can't give concise medical advice isn't representative of all female doctors.

This is actually a common problem with a lot of newly qualified doctors.

That's not to say there isn't a seed of truth in your conclusion. Just that one anecdotal experience doesn't prove it.

[–]beginner_ 4 points5 points  (7 children)

Yeah but lets be realistic, how many people do work 60 hrs? It's high level manager or people that need 2 jobs because they have no education. You should not be in one of these situation and in the other one you can actually take an influence on that by only hiring men.

[–]CounterTony 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Public accountant here. For about 4 months of the year, 55+ hours are minimums for us. We generally work about 50 hours on average throughout the year. Public accounting is split about 47/53 male/female IIRC at the lower levels, with most of the partners being males.

Bankers, doctors, lawyers, consultants, etc. all work more than your standard 40. Pretty much any "professional" job does that in America.

[–]VYPV 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Pretty common in research, both men and women work long hours.

[–]beginner_ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

OK. phd and post-doc but lets be honest, they are just cheap labor, even cheaper than immigrants.

[–]Galactic-Unicorn 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Lots of doctors do it too. Then they get old and cut down to 36 hour weeks to avoid burn out.

[–]tuzki 0 points1 point  (2 children)

I have 2 jobs, and am highly educated. Ones a multimillion dollar side gig, the other is software engineering. ; )

Counterpoint 2: ppl with big degrees like Drs and lawyers work 60-70 hours per week, essentially working 2 jobs. Their pay reflects that, but they could just have 2 separate employers and achieve the same long hours and annual total wage.

Counterpoint 3: crippling student loan debt hinders a highly educated individual for years, sucking hundreds of thousands of dollars from them to repay the 'opportunity' to prostrate themselves to various instructors and get a chance (not guaranteed) to land a high-paying job.

[–]beginner_ 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Just be realistic, what's the total amount of people in your situation and such that are doctors or lawyers? Yeah, there are a lot of them but if you compare to total amount of all people, it's a very low fraction. I mean yo are being a bit solipsistic here, average joe office worker or handyman doesn't work 50+ hours.

[–]tuzki 0 points1 point  (0 children)

And if average joe / handyman had 2 jobs they'd make doctor/lawyer wages. I think you have completely missed the point here. Dr/Lawyer make more money, but work more. 2 jobs isn't usually indicative of being uneducated, and being highly educated = working the same # of hours as working 2 jobs.

[–]microwave44 4 points5 points  (0 children)

It's time to end all this discussion about the wage gap

Nobody talks about the SPENDING GAP

I'm talking about the billions of women that are control freaks and get under the skin of their hubbies and get to control the household spending, giving away over 80% of what the man earns on useless shit like makeup (pareto principle, a 50$ rimmel and coenzima Q10 creams won't make you look better when you're a fatass that looks perpetually pregnant) home decoration and junk food for children. Someone once said that if you want to get rich, make a business that caters to women, just look at how facebook and telephone companies are enhancing their frame.

Guys talk

<ring> Guy 1: Hey bro how are you

Guy2: Great, just finished gym

Guy1: Super, meet at 7 for drinks?

Guy2: I'll be there at half past 7, gotta pick some food and my tinder girl

Guy1: See you there



<<endless conversation about bullshit>>

Never let a woman control spending of money you earned. Heck, not even hers in some situations.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

That's shit and they know it. The only thing getting done during work hours by women is FB, SC, IG, and cat videos

[–]PedophilePriest 2 points3 points  (3 children)

I don't want to disparage here, but your example is far from ubiquitous.

Women aren't paid less for doing the same job, they are paid less for holding lower positions...

In my lab there are 6 men to 2 women, and those women work there asses off, and absolutely do more work then the men. Mostly because they lack prioritization skills, they think that everything is important when it's clearly not.

Are these outliers? of course, but women get paid less more so for how their brain works rather than their work ethic.

[–]bluethreads 0 points1 point  (2 children)

The theory goes that women are paid 70% less for doing the same job as men. The truth to this is that a woman's paycheck typically is not lower than a man's for doing the same work, however women take home 70% less money on average in the long term because women miss work on a more frequent basis than men due to things related to pregnancy and child care.

[–]tuzki 0 points1 point  (0 children)

And have significant employment gaps preventing linear promotion which doubly affects them, due to the same reasons you stated. Hard to get a 100k job with 10 years off raising kids. Hard to be at work, earning promotions when little Timmy is sick and you have PTA etc and are not at work like your male counterparts.

[–]PedophilePriest 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah that's bullshit, sounds like the feminist narrative. If you look at industries women make 70% of what men do due to holding different positions.

you honestly think men and women are starting at the same pay? That Men are given a 40-50% raise and women almost nothing because of attendance?

No, this bullshit is feminists looking at the medical field and getting pissed off that doctors make more than nurses.

They are pushing that narrative so that eventually we can overpay women for inferior work, with men being underpaid will do the majority. With mandatory minimums on female hiring women will be free to do nothing but shop online and gossip while they take the raise that you earned busting your ass off doing the work of two.

Read some Esther.

[–]TyrannyVengeance 2 points3 points  (0 children)

HAHAHAHA. No, exceptional women are 77 percent as productive as average men. I know zero women even close to fucking 50 percent as productive as I am, and our office is littered with them.

[–]Staple_Stable 8 points9 points  (2 children)

study says women 77% as productive as men

The study doesn't say that at all. If anything, it says the opposite, women have higher productivity (if productivity = cognition, like the article seems to suggest), it just drops off faster. The study also says that women and men have basically the same baseline cognitive level.

It does suggest that men have higher productivity levels if you compare them to women, after working around ~50 hour weeks, but how much so is entirely unclear based off the article. Also, because women have higher productivity levels at lower hours of work per week, its entirely unclear at what point men would be more productive than women for the total week.

[–]grewapair[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

No, you're mixing up the average with the individual. If I hire a man with cognitive ability equal to 80 for a job, I only need to hire a woman with the same cognitive ability. Thus, the woman I hire will also have 80.

But she'll poop out before he will. QED

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

No, you took one line from an article about a study, you didn't read or look into the study, you just took that one line and ran with it, half-informed and misunderstanding the direction of the study.

You're as emotionally driven and scientifically insulting as the people you hate.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

What does "Cognitive function" refer to exactly?

[–]CytoToxin_ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I believe it's referring to one's ability to get work done and stay on task. Productivity and focus generally trend downward for longer hours worked. It so happens women generally pitter out significantly quicker than their male coworkers -- they can only work 77% of the hours of a man before their productivity falls off.

[–]suske127 1 point2 points  (2 children)

First I would like to say, women make 96 cents to a mans dollar in the USA when equal job type, positions, titles, education, and experience are compared.

Second, I would like to say the logic of this post is pretty terrible because most people work 40-48 hours a week, not 60. So even if a woman is working 8 hours a day, 6 days per week with a single day off, she is still apparently not going over her "productivity limit" for the week, by the logic of this study.

I hate statistics and feminism and all that bullshit in general but here you are simply twisting and manipulating things like they do, in order to help a different cause. You can't beat evil with more evil. Be honest

[–]PM_ME_AWKWARD 2 points2 points [recovered]

I laughed when I read your post.

Your saying because lots of people don't work sixty hours a week let's just ignore good science? You know part of that mythical wage gap is accounted for by adjusting for hours worked right? Men on average work more hours than women. And put in more voluntary overtime.

Let's look at a typical scenario. Bob and Julie both work 8 hours a day 6 days a week. Neither are over their productivity limit at this point. But let's imagine a large customer started up a large project with a tight deadline. Overtime is available for those who want to work extra hours until the project is done. What happens?

A)Julie, let's be really fucking generous, has decided to come in on her Sunday and work a full shift. Now working (7×8=) 56 hours and has hit her functional limit. Bob comes in on his Sunday too, but he won't hit his limit. This means Bob can continue to work, putting in more overtime until he hits his limit, providing more value to the company while Julie now can't. Who's the better employee? And who just got paid more? It's Bob. This assumes both are willing to work as much as they can. But.....

B) Let's not kid ourselves, Julie wouldn't fucking come in on her Sunday after working 48 hours! Some men might not either, but the vast majority of overtime hours are served by men. So who can the company count on when a big project starts up? Bob. If I had to guess I'd say there is a link between this functional limit and the choices men and women make when deciding whether they want the overtime or not. You ever get the feeling that your tank is getting low near the end of the week and you need a break? May just be your functional limit looming over your shoulder. So again, who's more valuable when an unexpected deadline is imposed? Men are. We can work longer when the need arises.

C) In a normal week Bob and Julie both work 48 hours. What happens when they have shit to do outside work? What if they have duties to maintain their properties? Or perhaps a project at home they want to work on? Well Julie is only two hours away from the lower end of her functional limit. Bob is nowhere near his. Let's say both Bob and our strong-independent-woman-living-all-on-her-own-because-she-don't-need-no-man-Julie(!) has to mow the lawn and do some other chores around the house. Looks like our special snowflake Julie hit her limit :( She's likely going to watch TV in her sweatpants and eat icecream while bitching to get friend that she works too damn much and had no balance in her life. Bob, our magnificent man Bob still hasn't hit his limit! Bob can go into the garage to escape his bitching wife and work many hours on whatever tickles his fancy, perhaps the '53 Ford. Who has the better life? The icecream eating bitchfest with no balance, or the guy who still had the ability to pursue a hobby and work out some of the stress built up during the week? Your fucking right it's Bob.

But let's use your logic! Just hand wave away the obvious and clear benefits of men having higher functional limits! Let's ignore that much of the human experience happens outside the regular 9 to 5 job and forget about all those other people who do contract work, or are salaried managers, or production line workers! Let's sweep under the rug that the wage gap is likely tied directly to functional limits and how that affects people's choices regarding life balance! Yay!

[–]YuriJackoffski 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Goddamn you obliterated that fool!

[–]Eltiah 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The gender wage gap doesnt mean women get PAID less, its that women EARN less, on average. Discrimination, or the difference in pay related only to gender, explains a veery small part of that wage gap. Some argue the wage gap is more like 92 cents on the dollar. The real factors in the gender wage gap is workforce labor participation rates. Although women obtain more education overall, they earn less because of materntal responsibilities.

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 1 point2 points  (0 children)

77%? As high as that?

Seriously though, the relative amount you can work before cognitive decline isn't the same as your relative productivity. Let's not start making up statistics.

There IS a productivity gap, but it's not as high as 77%.

We only need facts, we don't need to make up misleading statistics.

[–]allnamesfckintaken 1 point2 points  (0 children)

anyone who isnt full of shit already knew women were inferior to men physically and mentally. you don't need a study for it. 10000 years of human history have already proven this. you think when people were just farmers that men managed to oppress women so much that they couldn't invent jack shit but men could? give me a break. they're not only less productive, they have less drive, less intelligence and less curiosity about the natural world. even today, women are only better at men when it comes to social bullshit. that's it. that's basically all they're doing right now too. crying and complaining and social work. even in politics women don't have the guts to beat men. even after decades of equal educational opportunities, they're still piling onto social jobs. now they're even trying to blame that on men. fucking ridiculous.

[–]WeAreAnimal 1 point2 points  (0 children)

As a male who works like a female I win the equality race! Hah suck it!

[–]The-Animus 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes, fire back with this study so they can look at it themselves and realize you're scientifically illiterate. This study does not say what OP seems to think it does.

Edited To Add: In all seriousness this thread is 5th from the top, has 400 upvotes. This is the kind of shit that makes TRP look bad.

[–]Traz_Onmale 2 points3 points  (3 children)

The news article also states that the peak cognitive function is higher in women than in men. Does that mean that women should be paid more than men if both are working normal hours?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

No, cause OP doesn't know what the fuck science is.

[–]nevva_Again 2 points3 points  (0 children)


All the facts and studies are proving that the ''wage gap'' is a lie.
Except that women and feminists do not care about facts and studies.

Do not waste your time arguing with them with facts and figures.

They don't care about the truth, they are only interested in pushing their agenda. They. Just. Don't. Care.

[–]Branhalir 1 point2 points  (0 children)

But women provide 77 percent less.

Euh, no, either your math is off or your mind was having a brainfart. If men provide 100 percent, and women provide 77 percent, then women provide 23 percent less, not 77 percent less.

Edit: After reading the article, I also want to add that nowhere did it say anything about women providing more or less.

[–][deleted] 1 points1 points

[permanently deleted]

[–]nonnimoose 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I (a woman) have had this same argument with other women for years. I was an engineer when I was younger. When I would point out that I knew for a fact I was getting paid the same as my male counterparts, they would come back with the unfairness of engineers (mostly male) getting paid more than something like social workers (mostly female). I'd ask them why, if they knew this, did they not major in an engineering discipline rather than whatever humanities major they did choose? No good answer to that.

I am currently a teacher. I don't make as much now as I did 25 years ago as an engineer, even though during the school year I work longer hours than I did in any other job - but hey, I have the summer off! :) And I'm still getting paid the same as my male counterparts...

[–]batfish55 1 point2 points  (2 children)

This is kinda where I was going.

There's lots of male construction workers, cops, firemen, doctors, and engineers. Not a lot of women in those dangerous or requiring-high-education jobs.

There ARE a lot of women as secretaries, HR, and school teachers. Not a lot of education required there.

Men make more because they do more dangerous jobs or have higher education.

[–]bluethreads 0 points1 point  (1 child)

But that can't be right since women college enrollments outnumber men by millions. This trend is not new - it started in the 1970s and the gap in the ratio of women to men in college only grows wider through the decades.

[–]batfish55 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

You're right, there ARE a shit-ton more females in college than men, BUT, you need to look at the majors they choose. Men DOMINATE Stem majors (and, only a little curiously, philosophy...guess the wimmins don't like to think), while women DOMINATE english, liberal arts, psychology, journalism, gender studies, etc (ie, the jobs that will have them being waitresses forever, or maybe get them into HR).

So I'll ask you, do you think an engineer should be paid more than an english major? How about a medical doctor versus a gender studies graduate?

[–]Magnum256[🍰] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

But the average work week is ~40-45 hours (5x8) so both men and women should be operating at comparable levels during the average work week and so equal pay is justified in such cases.

[–]aazav 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Then they should get 77% as much as a man makes.

[–]ModeratorPaperStreetVilla 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Get out of their frame.

The argument isn't whether 77cents is true or not, because that assumes validity.

The argument is whether children should be allowed to engage the media

[–]Kalepsis 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I can't fucking stand that damn $.77 statistic. There are so many unaccounted-for variables.

How many female coal miners in the US make the same wage as males? Trick question; there are none. How about female construction workers? Hot-tar roofers? Sewer cleaners? Truck mechanics?

[–]Holyburrito 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The 79 cent statistic is false and cites itself. Women work fewer hours at the same job because the normally value their time away from work more than men do and can afford to if they are dating or married to someone providing for them.

[–]DatGrass14 0 points1 point  (0 children)

AND they get paid the same

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)


What is this?

[–]andres7832 0 points1 point  (0 children)

  1. This is not the reason the 70% pay for women is BS, it is because the calculation of that ratio was to take all the earnings from men and divide by the number of men, and do the same thing for women. It did not take into account profession, time off for childbearing/rearing, education, overtime, etc.

  2. The 70% ratio has nothing to do with this statistic, since in theory men and women should be working the same amount of hours (equal work, equal pay) To say, well, men work more hours before our production drops off doesnt defend the argument well.

  3. But women provide 77 percent less. The next time someone quotes that statistic, fire back this study.

They provide 23% less, as they do provide 77% of a man's work before dropoff. In theory. I would still not argue with a woman with this study as proof of anything.

[–]CounterTony 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Using a study about cognitive function and productive capacity is irrelevant to the topic of the Wage Gap, because there is no Wage Gap; men and women are paid the same rate for the same quality of work performed, with variances being primarily related to who you know, how confident/aggressive you are in pursuing raises or claiming credit for things, and how attractive you are. If a woman leaves the industry for 10 years to raise her kids and comes back, she should not be expected to be paid at the same rate as someone else because she has simply not kept up with industry changes during that time frame. Likewise, if a woman takes credit for work she performs and there's a shy guy who wants to share credit with everyone, the woman is expected to make more (her contributions to her employer are more apparent).

While there is no Wage Gap, there is an Earnings Gap, and that is what all of the studies about wages are actually measuring. The reason why it appears that men make more $$$ than women for the same job is because the wages of those in the studies are not reflective of hours worked, years of experience, or any of the other reasons I mentioned above. In the United States, "full-time" Is generally classified as 35-hour workweeks; I and most of my peers are working, on average, 50 hours a week. And in my industry, men and women have very similar salaries, with variances being attributed primarily to merit (plenty of women make more than I do, and I make more than plenty of others; however, we all make "more or less" the same within a few grand).

So please stop posting studies to "justify" the Wage Gap, because there isn't one!

[–]i_have_a_semicolon 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Your title is misleading. This only applies to people who are working or expected to work over 40 hours a week.

[–]the_red_monk 0 points1 point  (0 children)

While that would be nice, no amount of "reasoning" with feminists has ever been fruitful for me. If anything it just communicates that you're in their frame. A lot of the "science" that feminism is based on isn't really science at all. You can't argue with an ideology. That's what it is, an ideology, even if it's supported by "science" which is just fog and mirrors if you ask me.

I wish it were as simple as quoting studies to counter feminist "facts." But it's not that simple.

What it boils down to is it's a game of power. Women are playing a game of power and winning in our society today. And they seem to be doing a better job of it because they've cut us down at the legs.

To push back we need to play the game of power that is to say use Machiavellian tactics. Deception, duplicity, and spinning the ideology so our bidding is done unknowingly by the feminist elite.

I could go on, but if only it were as simple as using reason, logic, and objectivity to contradict the feminist agenda. That's because the "facts" are just a tool and not actually real facts. They never were.

To win this, we're going to have to play the game of power better than them. And science or facts have nothing to do with it.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Your math understates the true productivity gap because it assumes that women are just as productive as men during core working hours. The thousands of unproductive hours I've spent in meetings with female clients, bosses and co-workers suggests otherwise.

[–]gtypoDD22 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I hire people, and I prefer to hire women - his is why I think any sort of employment "sexism" against females is BS. If you give me an equally qualified woman and an equally qualified man I will hire the woman any day of the week. Double points if she is Asian. You guys only see things from the wage slave point of view, but from my perspective as a boss, men may be more skilled but women are much easier to work with.

Last week I had a guy I hired try and extort me with confidential info. Needless to say, I am only hiring women from now on. Female employees are like sheep, if you know how to herd them you will be fine. Male employees are like dogs, volatile and hard to control.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I swear women exist to answer the phone and immediately put me on hold and find a man answer my question

[–]SummertimeMelancholy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

LRM research from LRM researchers in a LRM university published in nowhere... I'm sure this is a research of high quality with good methodology.

[–]Moneyley 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Id like to chime in with additional input that would make the 77 cents they get, even less.

Women like to give birth, most of the times they dont give a fuck to who, some alpha dude fucks and dumps and they're ok with that.

Unfortunately, that decision carries over to employment. Immediately days off for morning sickness, next production slows down because everybody is nice to her, she's gonna have a baby, all the women in the office can relate. Its a special accomplishment to open your legs and let some dude (most of the times random) bust his load on them. Next, her productivity drops....shes pregnant so she does not need to handle the extra stress, management has to agree with this theory nowadays so they downgrade her tasks to more remedial projects: filing folders, removing staples from documents and shit. Meanwhile, everybody else that's at work has to carry her load. Wait, she's not done, prenatal appointments come next. Missing days for that. All this time off has got her exhausted, time for short term disability or fmla. This is probably the most appropriate compensation for the work she does, she now gets 60% of her paycheck while she's out. At my job, including myself, there are 3 men for 12 women. On any given day 3-5 of the women are out. My two buddies and me are as faithful to being on point every day as a sick dog. If two of us are out on any given day....the call center goes into MAYDAY mode. They deserve way less than 77c on the dollar we make.

[–]A-FAT-SAMOAN 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Exactly that in the military but much worse. Their vagina prevents them from keeping up in PT or staying with the platoon on hikes. No manual labor for them cause they can't lift heavy things. Now you're pregnant? Well here's 6 months off + a get-out-of-deployment free card. No worries about being within height/weight/PT standards.

By the time they're supposed to be fit for duty it's the end of their enlistment. All of this on a tax payers dime.

[–]TropicalMermaid -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I'm a woman who runs my own business, works more than 40 hours a week, and has my own place to live, my own car, and pays all of my own bills. I rely on no one else to support me. So yes, I can say that I DO work hard and put forth a lot of effort.

[–]1nonthaki -2 points-1 points  (1 child)

Water fills nearly 77% of Earth. :o . OMG , Earth is discriminating Water . (-_-) smh . Fucking female Logic