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Rant/VentingRecognize that your beta behaviour may come from a domineering mother (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by MrNatemare

Thank TRP so much for transforming how I think about women, and life in general. It actually sparked my thoughts and made me realized that my previous beta behaviour stem from growing up in a family consist of a beta father and a domineering (alpha) mother.

A domineering mother is very controlling, and worries way too much about things that don't matter because they feel very insecure. It's in a woman's nature to want protection from man but if she has a personality that is too domineering, she ends up with a beta male. Even though she is comfortable in this state, her inner self is very insecure. So she ended up feeling anxious and wanted to control what I do. When I was little she wasn't happy about the fact that I was drawing on papers because she thought I was wasting printing papers. She had to control how I studied for school and forced me not to watch TV to relax, even though I was doing well in school on my own. She made me quit an advanced class I took because I was initially not doing well in that course (I was not doing that badly, and just needed time to improve). She would questions any decision I made that involved any bit of risk and say things to put me down, like "you cannot compete with people like that", "that is too risky". She has made me question myself constantly about my abilities and decisions. I had very little confidence growing up, and guess how well that goes when I tried to talk to girls. I always tried to seek validation from others when I try to make decisions because I never felt secure, I felt like I can never do something simply because I just love it. She also rarely recognized my achievements because she was too busy being insecure.

So of course when the time comes for me to start dating girls, I dated a domineering girlfriend, who dumped my beta ass. After reading TRP and slowly realizing how my mother was messing with my head all these years, I am trying hard to deprogram myself. This type of parenthood is destructive and I really hate her for it. For people in similar situations, please unprogram yourself from whatever childhood fears that your domineering mother instilled into you, and that would really help you get out of the beta mindset. A true man has nothing to fear, but himself.

Edit: Did not expect so many people would have the same issue and resonate with this. This proves to me that it is important to recognize this.


[–]10xdada 202 points203 points  (34 children)

TRP hipster tattoo: "Mama Lied."

Concern , shame and disapproval are all means of asserting control. A good way to deal with an overbearing mother is to tell her when she's crossing "normal adult boundaries." Use these words.

After you stop being a child and become a man, your mother becomes a woman in your family. You are not a child, unless you relate like one, in which case, you would still be a child. Be a son, but that doesn't mean being a child.

Arguably a boy becomes a man when he learns to set boundaries for his mother.

[–]reigorius 46 points47 points  (9 children)

Yeah, nicely said but apparentely you haven't been raised by a borderline mum with anger issues.

It takes a long time of deprogramming evolved coping strategies and maladjusted cognitive patterns.

Parents can seriously screw with their kids mind. It takes some hard reset to see your own inner workings and it is seriously hard work overcoming engrained patterns.

[–]razormachine 42 points43 points  (6 children)

Man brought up by overbearing mother are usually fucked up from the ground up. They can't simply patch up a few things and fix their lives in a month or two. The best they can do in short time is learn to "act" as if they are not fucked up. To truly fix themselves they need to rebuild themselves as a person. And that takes time and determination, but it can be done.

[–]MrArnie2 8 points9 points  (3 children)

Fuuuck... I hope with time I'll be able to fix myself.

Haven't spoken with my mom for good 6 months, not much yet, but feels more than, that. Had to cut her out completely, even though for the longest time I thought that I can 'fix' our relationship, bug then I realized that it's not me. It's not my fault, that I only feel good (like myself) when she's absent.

She says she loves me, who knows, maybe. However, I for a fact don't feel anything towards her. I don't find her interesting, inspirational, smart, funny, a friend, nor supportive (even though she keeps repeating that, but again all that words vs action thing).

The only thing I feel is guilt that I don't feel anything towards her, and that pisses me off, bacause for a fact I know that it's only my conditioning, no logic behind that feel.

[–]bornredd 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I'm 3 years out from talking to my parents because of my mother.

It has taken me this long to finally let go and move on, but it feels great to finally get moving.

For real, go read When I Say No I Feel Guilty, and revel in how it's a laundry list of manipulative mother tactics in the "what not to let people do to you" sections.

[–]MrNatemare[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Give yourself a break. That's right, not everything is your fault. If you don't like her, there is a fucking reason. If you normally perceived as a cold-hearted piece of shit then those issues may be entirely your fault. But chances are you are not. So she has at least half of the responsibility for your lack of love for her. Don't put yourself down because she loves you, every human loves their children except for the maniacs, that's the fucking bottom line, not a gift.

[–]MrNatemare[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Do you have some personal experience on this if you don't mind sharing a bit? I am actively trying to deprogram myself. But man it takes a lot of mental energy and time.

[–]razormachine 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I do. But it will make a looooooooooooooong post. Send me a P.M. tomorrow and I will write you back.

[–]MrNatemare[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yep, and look I know that my mother's issues are mild compared to a lot of people, but that's a matter of degrees. The most important thing is that this problem exists for a lot of people, but a lot of them don't realise that.

[–]jzekyllandhyde 86 points87 points  (2 children)

That last sentence should be sidebar

[–]MrNatemare[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Agreed, that's gold right there.

[–]Redwolf915 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I became a man at age 15. Neat lol

[–][deleted]  (5 children)

[removed]

    [–]razormachine 16 points17 points  (2 children)

    Military service was traditionally the MaleRiteOfPassage™ in western society. In ex-Yugoslavia all able man served for 3-5 years, and that system created generations of alpha man tough as shit.

    [–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (1 child)

    Who then killed each other off in the civil war.

    A similar thing can be said about Iraq and Syria.

    [–]razormachine 8 points9 points  (0 children)

    Well we pretty much made a threesome. Just like Iraq and Syria, Yugoslavia was a country of multiple nationalities. That kind of countries require a common enemy to function. Once the common enemy is gone, people turn on each other.

    If Yugoslavia was composed of people of the same nationality, it would still be on the map.

    [–]10xdada 4 points5 points  (1 child)

    Would be interesting to read a list of male rights of passage beyond bar mitzvahs and amazonian/african warrior tribe stuff. In the west, your options are a degree, professional designation, military, prison sentence, or marriage with kids. Rich doesn't cut it.

    Masculine rights of passage have been completely co-opted and replaced with progressive bullshit. There is no sanctioned way to be a man among men independent of state approval. The silicon valley guys are rich and successful, but you can't really say anyone really respects them. Admire their success, sure. Envy their intelligence, sure. Would you follow any of them into battle? Probably not. They are more like boy bands than rock stars. They were smart and they won big, but for whatever reason that's not legit. Hedge fund guys are the same, more like pro poker players but smart. Kind of dodgy, probably on the spectrum, but nobody you'd pick for your team.

    [–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (7 children)

    My mother died before I had a chance. She was already sick and wanted to move to Arizona from Florida for the dry air. I was recently married and said, look, we'll move you in September, but we have summer jobs in Yellowstone and it's going to be fun. She moves anyway in fucking June with another junkie loser who was fleeing town because a young women in the social group committed suicide while high on junk he gave her. Mid July we're getting desperate letters because she was dying. I really didn't give a fuck. I was done. But my wife at the time talked me into leaving our jobs and heading to Arizona to take care of her. Losing that fight with my wife had pretty serious implications down the road.

    [–]chaseemall 7 points8 points  (1 child)

    Must have been one heel of a mother to make you not want to be there while she was dying.

    [–]newgrounds 4 points5 points  (4 children)

    Why did it have serious implications?

    [–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (3 children)

    I was somewhat defeated after that. After my mother died, I wanted to stay in Phoenix for a while. I needed time to heal and I also had my first corporate job. Things were stable. But, my Florida girl wife hated it there and talked me into quitting my job and moving to Denver, where her mother lived at the time. I love Denver and have been here since but my point is that I lost control.....I lost Frame. I had no authority. And that's an intolerable place for any husband worth his salt.

    [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

    It sounds like she saw how you abandoned your mother and decided she didn't want to abandon hers.

    It probably sucks a lot to be in that position.

    [–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (1 child)

    Yeah man, no doubt. She doesn't want to be abandoned by her own children, and I don't think she will be.

    But let's be really clear. The only allowable aim for any parent, in my opinion, is to prepare your children for the real world. I'm pretty specific on this. That's it. It's almost like the Red Pill maxim,"She's not yours, it's just your turn." Your success as a parent entirely hangs on how well you prepare your children for the real world.

    [–]MrNatemare[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Exactly. If you do this well you will be a winner, and your children will thank you for doing that. So many parents act like they own their children, and baby them until they enter the workforce, at which point they realise they are fucking stuck.

    [–][deleted]  (1 child)

    [removed]

      [–]MrNatemare[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      I think so many people go through life without ever learning that.

      [–]FuckOffDoxxers 4 points5 points  (1 child)

      Arguably a boy becomes a man when he learns to set boundaries for his mother.

      Agree 100%. I'm married/in the process of extracting myself from said marriage, but the biggest watershed moment for me was when I had a confrontation with my mom. She was doing the whole helicopter mom thing, and I told her: "This is not respectful of me. You can stop, or you can lose contact with your son."

      She called my bluff, but the thing is that even before I found TRP, I wasn't a bluffing kind of guy.

      Anyway, that was a hugely defining moment for me in terms of developing OI.

      [–]inspiron3000 2 points3 points  (1 child)

      Arguably a boy becomes a man when he learns to set boundaries for his mother.

      For me it was learning that my father never set boundaries for my crazy mother and that he was not the right role model for me.
       
      In fact, he failed as a father. He is not a man.

      [–]MrNatemare[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      That usually goes hand in hand. A real man puts his woman in line, and does not hand the power to her. My father has way too much undeserved respect for my mother, kept telling me how she was smart and her introverted personality was good. Guess what I found out after growing up and seeing the world? She is stupid, makes stupid decisions, and being "introverted" is more like her excuse for not wanting to talk to people due to her competition anxiety.

      [–]MrNatemare[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      I feel like I should have done this ages ago.

      [–]Theophagist 47 points48 points  (5 children)

      Sigh... This is going to be wonderful fodder for those who hate us but I'm going to say it anyway.

      If you grew up with an unfit mother who trained you to be a beta pussy you may reap long-term benefits by shunning her as an adult. She will always and forever make you feel weak and worthless. It took until I was 39 years old to finally realize that poison must be purged no matter how close the relation is. I started to make some VERY dramatic changes once I stopped associating with my mother, and I mean big big changes for the better. It was like her presence in my life was an anchor that I didn't realize was even there.

      [–]Stythe 7 points8 points  (2 children)

      This is true. I keep low contact with my parents because their way of living is scripted. Growing up I was pretty spontaneous and outgoing but they constantly cautioned, criticised, shunned and controlled me until I was made me feel useless as a person and while I accept the past and understand it now, I'd be lying if I said I had respect for them as parents, or even in many ways as full people or adults. I see them as children. I know their intent was to protect me, but they have toxic, controlling mindsets and can't accept thoughts outside their own.

      I've been reprogramming myself for years unconsciously but now that I see the bigger picture it's given me a real direction. It will take a long time to fully find and rid myself of old habits and I'll stumble along the way, but it feels good to do, even when it's hard. Sadly my parents refuse to hear my thoughts because of their own insecurities and simply end any related discussion with "we did our best" as if that has anything to do with what I'm saying. But again, they take it personally.

      Now I just play a part with them to keep them happy and myself and my thoughts distant and for those who care. It's funny actually because I realized I lived a lot of my life with that fakeness in which I interact with them and it actually created severe cognitive dissonance in myself, which led me to drugs and wasting time and feeling sorry for myself. On the flipside it taught me about frame, game and the importance of keeping up appearances, so there's the silver lining.

      [–]MrNatemare[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

      Man I cannot tell you how much I resonate with this. "We did out best" is what they tell me every time I bring up what they did wrong. Simply not fucking true. "Focus on the future" is another thing they tell me. Unless you are a master of the universe, there is always a way you could have done better, there is no shame in this. But if they don't admit it, they are lying out of their teeth.

      I also experienced that fakeness growing up. When my mother asked me whether I was happy I would fake it because I felt like I should since they love me. But she never truly meant that question because she did not expect me to answer otherwise. Proof? When I was in high school I was bullied, I complained to her many times and said I wanted to change school. She basically said "you are complaining too much and need to suck it up". I am depressed for years, and at one point suicidal because of this experience.

      [–]Stythe 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      That attitude mad eme feel worthless growing up. I recall sitting in a doctors office months after going off anti-depresses (I decided to stop when I legally wasn't under guardianship) and my mother blew up at the doctor telling him I got angry much faster and all kinds of shit like that. She was half right, I was experiencing feelings without medicated sedation and she always had a knack for pissing me off. That said, the doctor told her I seemed just fine and she immediately changed her tune. It took a professional to say that, not her son, to get her to even co side it. zTgis example is true of both my parents. They'll immediately write off what I say and think to give some ham-fisted advice I didn't ask for that completely avoids the issue. It caused me to doubt myself constantly as a kid and I developed immense self-esteem issues.

      Now that I get it at least I can play their game, but they'll never truly have a son. That's just how it is.

      [–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

      I got some bad news for you. Whether you wrote this out or not this place will be fodder no matter what since its exposing the truth of women.

      Glad you made it out ok from a lifetime of hell.

      [–]MrNatemare[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

      Yeah, a politically correct beta male or a feminist would come by and say "look at these losers blaming their life decisions on their mothers". But I don't care. It's the fucking truth and people are just too blind to see it.

      I am seeing great improvements in my confidence and energy level once I figured this out and started deprogramming myself. Beta females also seem way more attractive to me now. No matter what people say, mental attitudes and programming make a huge difference in your life.

      It's also funny how these things get into our subconscious mind and stay there. You think that's going away once you grow up and move out? Nope. Unless you sit down and actively start telling yourself and deprogram (sort of like hypnotising), nothing is going to change for you and those mindsets are going to stick in your subconsciousness and manipulate you in your life decisions.

      [–]Theophagist 52 points53 points  (9 children)

      I got a Huffy dirt-bike, started doing little jumps and riding trails at 10. Mom made sure that I knew I could never be good enough to ride competitively so I should quit. Dad gave me a pair of practice nunchaku, disappeared in the night. Got into acting - told I was going to screw up because every actor does and I'll embarrass myself. Started writing music. Told it was garbage and obviously anyone could do it. Wanted to join the military... ETC ETC. Eventually I was corralled into a culinary school because apparently the only thing she saw me fit for was eating. From a young age she would give me gigantic food portions and then when I started to get heavy, she would have me stand in front of the mirror and ask me "doesn't that disgust you?"

      And then she wondered why I was in my 30s and still not in a real career, still fat, still hadn't done anything special. The fact remains that everything I try, I excel at. It turns out that I am literally good at everything I want to be good at. Imagine if I was allowed to start bettering myself at a young age rather than conditioned to believe I was incompetent. I had to completely purge her from my life and since then it has only gotten more and more amazing.

      I don't want to sound like I'm mewling or lamenting, I have no regrets and if I changed anything I wouldn't be me as I am now. But this does demonstrate how badly a mother can slow you down. As I get older I am more and more convinced that women should absolutely NEVER be allowed to parent without male supervision.

      [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (6 children)

      what are you going to do about it?

      [–]Theophagist 12 points13 points  (5 children)

      Do about what? My life is together now and my mother isn't part of it (except to occasionally beg for money.)

      [–]milugan 0 points1 point  (3 children)

      What did you do to get it together?

      [–]Theophagist 3 points4 points  (2 children)

      Getting my career going was 50/50 luck/planning. Lost about 100 pounds doing keto. Went full agoge on myself, forcing a brutal regimen of exercise, reading, meditation and personal development and continued to do it until this day.

      Most importantly I've gone into it with the mentality that once I meet my goals I get to set new goals and fight like hell to keep the ones I've already met.

      This is following a solid 6 years of TRP study, by the way. Yes I was that fat beta browsing TRP and doing nothing.

      [–]MrNatemare[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      The worst thing is not trying. Trying and failing is better than not trying. And if you get good, you can decide to make that a career or pursue other things. But being constantly put down by your own parents is the worst thing because as a child they are your world and your guidance.

      [–]Strum_Gewehr 61 points62 points  (9 children)

      My experience:

      Negatives:
      1. Conditional love - My achievements broadcasted. Failures met with 'Commit Suicide'
      2. No Pampering - Rarely cooked delicious meals or showed any love
      3. Fights - Always fights with family members.
      4. No Support
      5. Need to reach breaking point epiphany to get out of the matrix and many more

       

      Positives(Only after breaking free):
      1. Digesting red pill is easier as the true nature of women is already revealed.
      2. No snowflake syndrome. Better IDGAF, frame and to an extent machiavellian tendencies.
      3. Taking up exercise and getting better at it is easier.

      I think its more of a trade off. Sell your childhood for a better adult life. At a chance ofcourse.

      [–]massivewang 30 points31 points  (5 children)

      My experience:

      http://www.narcissisticmother.com

      My mother was a batshit crazy evil bitch. Her only redeeming qualities were that she cooked and cleaned excellently. Other than that she treated us like shit. We existed only as a part of her narcissist supply, or in other words to validate her and meet her needs. She was never loving, nurturing, or gentle with us.

      After realizing she was never gonna change, and she was going to continue to be the biggest source of negativity in my life, I cut her out for good. I made peace with it long ago, I'm much better for it.

      The book "No more mr nice guy" by Robert Glover was integral in getting over my betaness. Changed my fucking life. I'm not a badass alpha Chad but I've learned and am continuing to learn how to put my needs first, live life how I want, and not give a fuck about the haters.

      [–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

      The fucked up part is adult children are, from what I understand, great. Parents who act the way your mother did, driving people away, don't realize what they're missing. Good on you for getting out.

      [–]sd4c 6 points7 points  (3 children)

      Best sign of a narcissistic mother is that thy give horrible gifts. They either ask you directly what you want (because they can't figure it out), buy something they themselves would enjoy, or give up entirely and get a gift card. A person who loves another puts thought into a gift, considers that persons' likes and dislikes, and even if they miss the mark- you can tell they tried. A narcissist, on the other hand, considers gift-giving a chore, and can't put themselves into their child's shoes, which would result in a personalized, thoughtful gift.

      [–]Stythe 1 point2 points  (2 children)

      That's interesting because my mother would always ask me what I wanted and never seemed to know anything about me. It was weird growing up because all I did was play video games so I figured it should be easy, but I later realized that because she never asked about my likes or dislikes or seemed to care about my interests, she literally never knew what I wanted. Then I realized that my birthdays, Christmas, all that stuff, it was never about giving or sharing or enjoying company to her; it was a chance to receive attention for giving gifts and she wanted to get exactly what we asked for so she didn't have to risk looking bad.

      Truthfully the extent of that only lined up as I wrote this. That's really sad. But I've always known my parents don't have a clue about who I am so I can't say I'm surprised or anything.

      [–]sd4c 3 points4 points  (1 child)

      Yep it's about giving of yourself, enjoying company. Sharing of yourself. Something narcissists find terrifying.

      What I'm learning as I go along in life, is that you can't distinguish mental illness from evil. I mean, if there is a madman chasing you with a knife, do you try to comfort him about his abusive childhood? No. You make as much distance as you can, and if you can't make distance you neutralize him.

      The same thing must be done with the narcissists or other repeatedly abusive people in your life. Make distance or otherwise neutralize their ability to have an impact on you

      [–]Stythe 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      That's a really good point I hadn't considered, but in my experience with people mental illnesses is that you can't do a thing about it. It's entirely up to them.

      [–]Johndoesmith67 4 points5 points  (0 children)

      This makes alot of sense to me. I may have not been a spoon fed rich kid who had to work day in and day out and weekends. But it has made for a better man in return.

      [–]mgbkurtz 35 points36 points  (2 children)

      Being raised by a narcissistic, domineering mother I was afraid of women and very pensive. It took 10 years being outside the house to learn about true (sexual) interaction with women.

      Women demand to be dominated, owned and look up to the male figure as a hero. I have embraced this and never been happier.

      [–]MrNatemare[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Yep. It has also taken me 10 years to figure out woman since leaving home. Geez that's a fucking long time that I could have done better in.

      [–]Endorsed Contributorex_addict_bro 45 points46 points  (8 children)

      And how did you unprogram yourself?

      [–]gocrazy69 24 points25 points  (4 children)

      Not sure if you only wanted OPs reply, but for what its worth the book "No more Mr nice guy" is a good start. When you're able to see the signs and start having counter measures it starts the process.

      [–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

      Time and keen attention to one's own goals.

      [–]Stythe 3 points4 points  (0 children)

      One good way to change is to look at the actions of others as if you were the one doing them, then ask yourself why you would do what they did. So if someome says something rude, ask yourself why you would do that if the roles were reversed. I've found doing this is immensely eye opening.

      For example, when I reflected on my relationship with my ex, I thought about why she would throw temper tantrums or scream or yell or do the things she did as if I was the one doing it and it hit me: She did it because she knew I'd feel guilty and roll over to accommodate her, because that's exactly what I did. That's how I first started noticing the nature of women actually and how I learned to start asserting myself. It also was what taught me to look at people fully, with strengths and weaknesses, instead of projecting onto them. It worked because it allowed me to see what they saw, which forced me to look at my own weaknesses. I couldn't deny them if others were using them against me.

      [–]MrNatemare[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      TRP was my start. "The Rational Male" helped a lot. Observe how other people behave and date. I talked to some close friends and asked about how they were brought up. Man you see the huge differences that a family environment can make. I looked back at my life choices and realised so many opportunities missed because of my personality.

      Also, learn statistics. The single more useful math area you can learn. Just get the concepts, like Bayesian Inference, which basically means whatever has happened must have a reason, and if your mother is not a successful person, there is a reason for this and you should not listen to her. I also get concepts from learning about finance - if she really know what is going to happen to me tomorrow or anything about my career, she can literally walk into a hedge fund and get a job. Since I realised this, I have stopped listening to any crap anybody tells me. You see, not knowing tomorrow is okay, but denying that you do not know tomorrow is not.

      I watched some Derren Brown videos that showed how powerful subliminal messages are, once you realise this you will be horrified at how much influence negative thoughts have on you.

      [–]__ROOSTER__ 13 points14 points  (1 child)

      Given the number of us raised by single mothers, divorced mothers, beta fathers, and beta step fathers; this is all very true.

      It is the root of why we are here and trying to figure things out. Raised by women to be boys. Now trying to figure out what manhood means.

      In general, women raise children, men raise adults. The absence of men in all of our lives (boy and girls) means no growing into men and women

      [–]MrNatemare[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Absolutely. You need woman to raise children, but without man they are dysfunctional.

      [–]Auphor_Phaksache 24 points25 points  (5 children)

      My mother is 7 levels of crazy. Took a long time to break out of the conditioning. If anyone wants to know what to look out for...

      1.) Discrediting your small wins. Small wins are the path to big wins. Example "You just came from the gym? You know you're going to have to go everyday if you want to lose weight". Doesn't matter, I don't care about everyday, I care about today.

      2.) Limiting your communication with the outside. In order to control, she has to make you hate everyone, or everyone hate you. That way she is the central source for incoming and outgoing information, making it easy to manipulate to her liking.

      3.) Using expensive gifts a tool. A lot of times, manipulative mothers give you gifts that really do improve the quality of your life. Unfortunately those gifts come at a steep price. Every gift can be taken away at a moments notice because, remember she gave it to you. It's not really yours, you're just temporarily holding it. If she can't get it back then she will take something of equal value.

      4.) Selectively distributing love. It is impossible to love everyone unconditionally. If your mother is upset at you, that love goes to someone else (sibling or spouse) to show them what they are doing is right and what you are doing is wrong. They go out to dinner with out you, because "she didn't think you wanted to go". You don't get a happy birthday because they "forgot".

      Honestly this list could go on and on but I'm on mobile right now. I hope this helps someone out.

      [–]real-boethius 4 points5 points  (0 children)

      Discrediting your small wins.

      Thus making success spirals impossible -

      http://lesswrong.com/lw/58m/build_small_skills_in_the_right_order/

      [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      This. Number 2 especially! I figured it out myself after realizing she didn't want me to have outside control and convos because I would realize, and I did, that she was stupid, controlling, cynical, and hateful of people and myself.

      [–]murraay_ 2 points3 points  (1 child)

      Fuck that explains so much. My mom makes it hard to love her.

      [–]Auphor_Phaksache 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      I remember one time, my mother was yelling at me about something. I forget what. She says "when you're in my house..." I'm like, this isn't your house (it was my sisters). My mother keeps yelling "BUT I PAID FOR IT!" And that is all the logic she needed...

      [–]Stythe 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      My dad did this with my sister when I was a kid. Wed always fight so eventually I stopped wanting to see him. At that point he'd always go and do fun things with my sister and never invite me along. I remember being really hurt and insulted because a couple I tines they went to these comic festivals and as a kid I wanted to be a comic illustrator, so it was a total slap in the fave that I wasnt invited. Then of course my mother would talk shit about him and how fucked that was so that she could look like the perfect parent, all the while just wanting me to take her side. It's fucked up.

      [–]blasted_biscuits 13 points14 points  (1 child)

      This is an important post as much of our programming comes from our mothers.

      My mother was diagnosed BPD and it showed in how she raised me. I used to say "if she doesn't get her way, there's hell to pay."

      In my late 20s I attempted to establish boundaries but she was able to manipulate around them. Toxic mothers are professionals at manipulation.

      Every relationship I was in, she made sure to wedge herself in and make the female feel like number two until they hated her and it caused turbulence in the relationship. Confronted with it, she would claim she's not to blame and the relationship is obviously not that strong. Clearly, she wanted to be the only woman in my life.

      My father was as beta as they come. She used this to get whatever she wanted from him. Even after separation she continued to use him and beat him down day after day to no end. He ended up killing himself. Not because of her but because he ended up in some shit that his beta-ness could not handle. Took the easy way out.

      We have a decent relationship today but it was and at times still is an uphill battle. It took me walking away from her for months. I'll do it again if I have to.

      One of the things TRP touts is the only power a man has in a relationship is his power to walk away. This remains true with your mother as well. If she is holding you back you must walk away.

      One of the things that helped me immensely was adhering to the stoic philosophy. I cannot control my mother or her actions, only my own.

      Once you are an adult, she is just another woman in your life. Her poison only works if you let it. You have the power to cut her off completely. You can do so with indifference, out of necessity.

      Good luck to all of you with toxic mothers. There are many of you but it's not too late to right-course and show your mother that she has no power of you.

      Unprogram yourself and live the life you were meant to live.

      [–]MrNatemare[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Yep. Just another woman in my life, and viewing from this point of view, I would not date someone like this if she is the last one on earth.

      [–]bbmc7gm6fm 23 points24 points  (2 children)

      [–]10xdada 23 points24 points  (1 child)

      Classic.

      "Mama's gonna make all of your nightmares come true Mama's gonna put all of her fears into you Mama's gonna keep you right here under her wing She won't let you fly but she might let you sing.."

      It was as though they were trying to get a message out of occupied territories. :)

      [–]PaulMurrayCbr 4 points5 points  (0 children)

      That whole album/movie has a theme of how his wife and his mother screwed him up.

      [–]clearheadeddd 10 points11 points  (1 child)

      Yo this is like...perfect timing. I was trying to look for help online last night about living with a domineering Madre. She almost makes me hate women, period. I started to do my own thing and voice my own opinions at one point and now she villainizes me to my brothers. My dad never really showed me how to stick up for myself, as he. Shitshow, but I'm teaching myself now. So damn fed up of the toxicity so I'm working on moving out.

      [–]destraht 10 points11 points  (2 children)

      In all of Ukraine the women at a park will just stand in one place and yell "Come here!" to their children and dogs and then when they come over they have no idea what to actually do with them. I mean they keep them on a very tight leash even when they have plenty of space in a large park. Its just constantly "Come here! Come here! ....". Recently in Odessa I saw a woman yelling for her dog to "come here!" and the dog reluctantly came over and then she just stood there. I was intently observing her and I noticed that the dog had a ball in its mouth and so I figured that she was going to throw it for him. Nope! She just stood there with no plan at all. I mean the dog had about an acre to run around in and she just needed it to be standing right next to her for her to feel secure in her bossiness. Its so typical.

      [edit] Just another bit that some people might find interesting about East vs West can be seen in the difference between Ukraine and the capital city of Moldova (other smaller cities are less so) is how young girls are on the playground. In Ukraine they are fairly quite while in Chisinau, Moldova they have started to do the very Western high pitch screaming every three minutes. Its absolutely a learned behaviour and it is of course quite irritating.

      [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      It's Happening!

      Exodus!

      To remove all the comments you've ever made on reddit, overwriting them with a message like this:

      ... then add this GreaseMonkey script. Go to your comments, and click the OVERWRITE button! Repeat for every page of comments you have.

      [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      женщина no matter what their race, colour, creed, etc don't know wtf to do without male guidance. If people were to stop coddling them they'd die off from retardation.

      [–]NeoreactionSafe 29 points30 points  (4 children)

       

      "that is too risky"

       

      This is how women turn you beta.

      They skillfully use their Game to get inside your head and place fear into any adventure you want to do. Over time you get more and more fearful and more needy for others to do things for and to you. You effectively become female.

      In most cases this is unconscious.

      Women project their female fears onto you.

      They actually fear all the time.

      The female Hamster Wheel of Subjective Happiness and Progress is always looking backwards and trying to escape blame. When a women is certain anyone who might discover their bad deeds is either dead or unknowing of her crime then she is comfortable.

      Masculinity is the IDGAF attitude.

      In Machiavelli it's the Lion nature.

      ...women want that Lion to be a tame pussy.

       

      [–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

      "that is too risky"

      This is a clear shit test. Do that thing.

      [–]MrNatemare[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      Yep, they want a lion to be their mate but they want to tame it once it becomes theirs. They project all their fears onto you because they are so afraid of everything.

      [–]NeoreactionSafe 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Fear is what prevents women from knowing the truth.

      It's the root of all evil really... ignorance.

       

      [–]sickofallofyou 8 points9 points  (0 children)

      After my parents divorced, my mom got with one of the biggest meanest boot stomping bikers in town. Now he's old, fat, works 50-60 hour weeks for her and her horse farm, has no motorcycle, and oh yeah my sister does most of the house work. A domineering woman will take an Alpha male and grind him into dust over the course of 20 years.

      [–]Fr3akShow 15 points16 points  (2 children)

      So true. I had a similar experience. My dad was beta and never around. He worked long hours, so my mom basically molded me into a beta. Read the book "No Mr. Nice Guy" by Robert Glover. He explains this phenomenon perfectly.

      [–]Docbear64 6 points7 points  (1 child)

      Similar experience here except my father was absent. I hated him for the longest time bu thw chaptert in NMMNG on masculine energy and embracing a male mentor/ role model opened my eyes.

      It helped me appreciate everything I presented myself as before as a man was a result of the ideal man my mom and sisters told me to be and yet NEVER the type of man they dated and / or married.

      [–]MrNatemare[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Good for you to find a male mentor. Actually you may not even need that. If you set your own goal and work your ass off to achieve whatever you want, men will appreciate it. Women, on the other hand...

      [–]Hakametal 7 points8 points  (1 child)

      I had a very similar experience with a girl I dated for 2 months. Women that are domineering and controlling are usually extremely insecure deep down. They will not let the man take the masculine role and lead, but rather expect the man to put them on a pedestal. When the guy doesn't do that, they get pissy. When they do do it however, their attraction drops. It's literally lose-lose and extremely toxic to be in. It's an balanced act of being alpha and beta that they want, but it takes FAR too much energy to invest in.

      Femininity is rooted in insecurity (a certain amount) and is natural for most women, however there is toxic insecurity that is very controlling and aggressive (hateful jealously and narcissistic behaviors come to mind). I've actually studied this type of behaviour in women in my past so if anyone wants to share their thoughts or ideas on this topic feel free to add some thoughts.

      [–]MrNatemare[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      My mum chose this beta male, and yet complains that he is a beta male. You are right, it's literally lose-lose.

      Domineering women are destructive to families.

      [–][deleted]  (1 child)

      [deleted]

      [–]MrNatemare[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Feeling much more happy and relieved about my life. Working hard and being a boss in my job too.

      [–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (2 children)

      My mom was domineering as fuck, but I didn't go into beta mode. I just fought against her for years. It was a constant power struggle and I always lost.

      [–]shadowq8 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      In life you shouldn't use direct confrontation, you can use smarter methods. Instead try to redirect energy such as emotional energy in your favor.

      Also don't hate your mum's.

      [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Yeah I've come to realize that in the last few years.

      [–]GL_HaveFun 5 points6 points  (4 children)

      working through this shit right now. while dealing with lung failure...

      fml

      [–]GreatWhiteCuck 1 point2 points  (3 children)

      How old are you and how long did you smoke for? Also sorry for you

      [–]GL_HaveFun 0 points1 point  (2 children)

      I'm 31. It's bronchiolitis obliterans from graft vs host from a stem cell transplant to deal with cancer. I never smoked. Actually, I was the male model that worked out, ate real healthy and helped my friends improve their lives. C'est la vie. My docs tell me I should've died half a dozen times already but God has been with me. Don't know why no healing yet but...such is the weave of life. Thanks GWC. I hope your username isn't from experience :( In which case I'm sorry for you too.

      [–]GreatWhiteCuck 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      No it's just a sarcastic name I'm lucky in that respect. Shit damn, well you seem to have a healthy attitude, all the best to you!

      [–]MrNatemare[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Man, hope all goes well with you. Know that you have a choice to be your own boss, it's all in your mind. You have nothing to fear but yourself.

      [–]Thebilboestbaggins 6 points7 points  (1 child)

      I come from the same exact background. And there's an uncomfortable truth that you must come to terms with that will help greatly with the anger you feel for her. Some women, are incapable of not being dominating, they would rather drown in there own piss than give into a submissive position. Hopefully this is not your mother, but if it is, and she's not willing to conform to the man in you, you will have to turn your back on her. It is your only option. And when you realize this your anger at her will subside.

      And because your dad is so beta , she will use him to try to get to you. Just know that. It might be your father that's doing the yelling, but she's the one working behind the scenes.

      A man has boundaries that he allows no one to cross unless he says so. If someone is not willing to respect those boundaries than they must be dismissed. This unfortunately includes our parents. And they must stay dismissed until they learn to respect those boundaries. That could take weeks, months, even years, sometimes it never happens.

      Dread is the only way to make her understand.

      [–]MrNatemare[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Yeah, over the years I have seen many cases where my beta dad praised her, and did the work at getting to me.

      What's good is that I am very much in control now. I have established myself and now have the power. She has to ask for my attention now, and whether to give it is at my discretion.

      [–]cashmoney_x 5 points6 points  (1 child)

      I see it happening all around me with kids in my family and I can't do shit about it. Always falls on deaf ears. Sucks. My eight year old nephew actually said no to playing tag with my seven year old daughter a few weekends back because "if I run I could get a headache."

      Jesus fucking christ.

      [–]MrNatemare[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      Wow that's kid about to be bullied hard in high school.

      [–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (2 children)

      I'm glad you realized this and are working upon improving yourself. I, too, came from the same household type. I realized all these years how worthless women are and the fact of the matter that they will never strive for greatness because they are natural fucking pussies. The path of least resistance, criticizing, shaming, I lived through it all. Women are shitty at life and without directives from a man are terrible at anything they do.

      I'm glad you starting using your mind to blast away all that negative habits. It gets better.

      [–]MrNatemare[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

      Yeah, going to college and learning about math, science and engineering really helped. The cliches about education are true. When you have really understood things from a systematic point of view (calculate probabilities, upper bound and lower bound of events, risk analysis) you start to see how stupid women are. Ever wonder why math, science and engineering classes are more than 80% men?

      [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      I don't have to think too hard about that. Its because of a shitlord oppressive thing called "logic and critical thinking" which women lack.

      [–]sd4c 2 points3 points  (4 children)

      Society is to blame for this. Back in the day a domineering mother would be put in her place. These days, you put your wife in her place, you're going to jail, divorce court, or both. It makes marriage a losing proposition, leading to lots more single moms, leading to lots more beta males. Best thing you can do is just improve yourself and wait for a unicorn you can thoroughly vet. Try to be several levels above your mate in age, income, and status. Protect yourself the whole way in, expecting divorce or cheating at any turn. If possible, don't marry at all.

      [–]shadowq8 1 point2 points  (2 children)

      In a way, it's our task to end this cycle.

      [–]sd4c 2 points3 points  (1 child)

      Likely, by being strong fathers. Present, good examples, calm and firm. Reassuring and protective with a vengeance.

      [–]MrNatemare[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Yep. I am going to tell my children, go venture out there and create your world, and if all goes to shit I will be here and be your shield.

      [–]MrNatemare[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      I am not going into a marriage without a prenup, that is if I ever get married.

      [–]Fearisthemindkiller1 3 points4 points  (0 children)

      In the Tony Robbins documentary there is a section where he finds out that a dude is beta cause his mom dominated him making him afriad to be strong. It opened my eyes to why I was afriad to be a man. It's about an 1 and a half in on Netflix.

      [–]PM-ME-YOUR-SEXTAPE 4 points5 points  (1 child)

      Haven't spoken to mine since I turned 14. I always had a gut feeling that she was holding me back, thank you for articulating what I've always felt, but never found the words for.

      [–]MrNatemare[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Subconscious programming has enormous effects. Even though other people will tell you "oh it's just small things", "oh it's just your mother", it's not true. Small things like this will fuck you up big time if you leave it in your mind.

      [–][deleted]  (2 children)

      [deleted]

      [–]GreatWhiteCuck 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      They are responsible for their own failure to improve and rise above

      [–]MrNatemare[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      That's is tough for her. But I will have to agree with GreatWhiteCuck and say that she had a choice. Despite whatever fucking excuses people tell you, everyone always has a choice. I thought I was going to be beta all my life, now I am choosing not to be. You always, always, always have a choice. You can make that choice yourself.

      [–][deleted]  (1 child)

      [removed]

      [–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (1 child)

      Oh boy you have no idea how much your mom affects you. My fucking mom of all people was mentally abusing me in ways that can't really be explained in a comment. And the only reason she could do that is because I cared about her. That's it, that's all it took. I'm not even sure if she was aware of what she was doing. I went through a depression and a few years after that to figure it out.

      [–]MrNatemare[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Yeah. I am a really caring person, and that's how she got me. If I was a callous fucker with no remorse I would not be here complaining, and my life would turn out in a better way.

      [–]Stythe 2 points3 points  (7 children)

      This I'd something I realized about my life too. Id bed a lot of people here gree up in this kind of environment, or variations of it. I realized at one point my ex was basically lole my mother and I ended up using that information to look inward and my issues, eventually ending up here. Its tough to realize the people who were supposed to raise you up and release tou into the world with confidance and drive end up leaving you restrained and weak, often because they were weak. Still, if you look at it for what it is and are honest with yourself, you can break free of the cycles you've lived in until then. Once you hit that, you've basically learned how to be an "adult." The next step is to start being one.

      [–]MrNatemare[S] 0 points1 point  (6 children)

      At some point you realise how much you are like your parents, even though you hated their behaviour all these years. It's a tough pill to swallow. That tells you though - if you don't fix up your issues, your children do not grow up magically without these issues. They grow up just like you, and there is nothing magical about being a parent (it's in everyone's nature). So my attitude is, fix myself up before I decide to bring a lovely new life to this world.

      [–]Stythe 1 point2 points  (5 children)

      I've noticed this growing up. A lot of habits I had were straight out of my parents rulebook. Dating my ex showed me a lot of them. I see more as time goes on. It's because we learned from them as kids. Once you become aware of these patterns it's best to change them, but it can be difficult after doing them unconsciously for so long.

      [–]MrNatemare[S] 0 points1 point  (4 children)

      I am wondering at what age did you notice this? I really wish I had noticed this when I was younger (in college).

      [–]Stythe 0 points1 point  (3 children)

      I'd say I noticed it to some degree in my early 20's, but I was too insecure and clueless to put the pieces together. It only began to make sense by my mid 20's and I'd say I only fully grasped the concept a couple years ago. I'm still in the early stages of improvement as is and I slip up from time to time, but I'm getting there.

      I wish that I knew what I know now when I was younger, but that can't be helped. I'll just go with the flow and direct it as best I can. I have some regrets for sure, but regrets are useful for learning.

      [–]MrNatemare[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

      I really wish we could have known this sort of things earlier, when you can make bigger changes in your life and take more risk. Unfortunate very often you don't really realise how badly you are programmed until you have started working for a bit, earning your place in the world, and dated a few people.

      [–]Stythe 1 point2 points  (1 child)

      I agree but there's not much that can be done about it so it's best to just focus on what you can do now. Bare in mind most other people aren't all that much better in many ways and you only have to beat yourself in life. It's rare that someone had great, fully aware parents these days.

      [–]MrNatemare[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Yes. That's the best thing to do. Don't expect them to change (we very often overestimate their abilities to change), don't forgive, keep them in line, and live your life your way, unaffected by them.

      Actually it is not until that I posted something like this at different places that I realized how common it is for people to have the same messed up issues with parents. Rarely do I see people really appreciate how understanding their parents are and how they supported them in doing what they want.

      [–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (4 children)

      Oh God yes.

      My mother was an active man hater. Hardcore lesbian feminist. Hours after her first child was born (me) she had a full hysterectomy, so I was her only shot. I'm just a normal dude. A transgendered/gay/bi male would have been lucky, in ways, to have her for a mother, but for me it was an absolute disaster.

      I married the first woman who came along and treated me like a man and reveled in my masculinity. She began the process of opening my eyes, but I'm still a work in progress.

      To top it all off my mother was a fucking junkie. She passed me around to her friends.....I fucked like 4 or 5 40+ year olds when I was a teenager (and I've only fucked one woman over 30 since). I would visit my father in the summertimes and come back to her being a fucking mess that I had to clean up. Needless to say, I have a huge case of white knight syndrome but I'm fighting it with all the fight I have.

      This is the main reason I'm on the Red Pill. My last girlfriend was 1/2 my age, hot as hell and wicked smart. Now that she's off to graduate school, I'm pretty close to getting back in the game. At 44 with a good job and no family, I feel like I have a neon fucking target on my back.....but critically, it's not just that women would look at me as Beta Bux, but I have a tendency of helping them do it. That must cease. I must not break Frame.

      So I'm going to chase younger women and tell them "You don't want to be exclusive with me. You should be actively looking for a husband while your market value is high. But if you're free Wednesday night....."

      [–]cashmoney_x 0 points1 point  (3 children)

      A man is never "on the pill."

      [–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (2 children)

      I just don't want to admit to swallowing on a public forum.

      [–][deleted]  (1 child)

      [deleted]

      [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      A controlling, over-protective parent (not necessarily the mother).

      Being controlling is not "alpha"; it's the epitome of beta, actually.

      [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

      Also for those redpillers who have the feeling that most of the issues they suffer come from their interactions with their mothers I can recommend the book Silently Seduced: When Parents Make Their Children Partners by Kenneth Adams Ph.D.

      This book covers the issue of covert incest, a silent but extremely damaging problem that, in this case, your mother due to certain circumstances (usually loneliness and marital problems) makes you assume a role which you shouldn't have, which is becoming a surrogate husband.

      [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

      My mother wasnt the domineering type but she was very mentally fragile and emotionally absent. This didn't necessarily make me beta in the sense OP talks able, but I do believe it caused me to develop an insecure attachment type. Growing up I always blamed myself for her mood swings and I developed a personality where I became a people pleaser because I was afraid of being abandoned. I'm very glad that I've found TRP and now analyze myself and how I grew up.

      [–]MrNatemare[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Yeah had the same feeling. Had to make everyone happy, and was really afraid of being alone. Now I am alone most of the time and don't even need other people. Focusing on my work and less on meaningless social jerk-offs in which everybody compares how well everybody else is doing.

      [–]mangus89 2 points3 points  (1 child)

      Oh man I feel for you brother!! I had the same exact thing growing up. My mom was borderline personality disorder and really fucked me up in the head and I can assure you that my ENTIRE adult life from 15 to 28 has been undoing all the fuckery that she instilled in me. Reading No More Mr Nice Guy helped a lot, as being a "nice guy" was my learned method of being. I've finally cut all contact with the woman and I truly hate her and despise her.

      I've always felt like a boy, even into my adulthood and I think a lot of it stems from the fact that I could never make a decision without first consulting her. Or if I did then it was ALWAYS wrong. After detaching from her I've started to grow so much more as an independent man.

      Not sure how much it helps to hear, but you're not the only one that's had to deal with that mess.

      [–]MrNatemare[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      It helps a great deal mate. I am very surprised to see so many people resonated with this and replied. I thought this post was gonna get 5 comments. I am very similar. My 16 - 27 (now) life was spent making lots of mistakes because I constantly seek validations from other about what I do, and finally I am realising this.

      [–]Mckallidon 2 points3 points  (1 child)

      Great post. Can definitely relate. Like the narrator of Fight Club said I am a 30year old boy. My mother and stepfather had this toxic dynamic going on in their 30+ year toxic relationship and I've had to unlearn all their dysfunctionality and the beta behaviors taught to me through my family, the media, the education system and other morons. Deep down I always knew it was all wrong but when you're mostly raised by your grandmother (God bless her soul), who would never admit my mother was a fucked up bitch, it literally turns you into a fearful, confused, resentful cuck. Keep lurking, improving and posting my friend.

      [–]MrNatemare[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      There is nothing to fear. Just realise that this mindset is completely independent of your job, salary, houses owned, marriage status, number of children. The only thing you need to change is you.

      [–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (3 children)

      What sucks is that your mom might be a fucking sweetheart full of love, but you end up resenting her for it. You need to be able to stand on your own two feet and face her as an equal, respecting all she did for you while not allowing her to erode what you built without a strong father. It's a tough one. I understand. I'm not there yet.

      [–]MrNatemare[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

      Yeah well you can see the things she did were not so bad, and people may even laugh at this and say "you call this fucked up? I have been through way tougher shit!". But it is still wrong nonetheless. A smaller wrong does not mean it is not going to affect anything.

      But rest assured she is a sweetheart full of love, just more for herself than for me (which is to be expected). The fucked up thing is she makes it sound like she loves me more than she loves herself.

      [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Maybe I was just projecting my mom. My family didn't have a good balance... mom is way more present and aggressive, almost frantically. My dad... basically lives his life as a temper tantrum and is not effective at anything, while mom is overbearing.

      [–]theycallmedumdum 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Finally! A post that's right for me!!! ;)

      [–]reddzeppelin 1 point2 points  (1 child)

      This is a red pill post that is actually on to something. Except for the last part which is the typical "man is great" baloney and the fact that you should forgive your mom and move on with life.

      [–]MrNatemare[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      I am not forgiving her, for life. I will have to move on though.

      [–]Bpgiissues 1 point2 points  (3 children)

      First just a point of clarity. Your beta behavior comes from you not your mother. You seem to be working on owning it but the title especially doesn't look like it. That said it can be learned as a result of the relationship with your mom. It's also very hereditary. My father enables my mom's manipulative crap. My brother married a woman that has the same qualities as my mom and my ex. It took me well over 40 years to change my perspective and see the behavior for what it is and then figure out how to detach from it. Biggest thing to change was realising that it's not my problem. My ex having an argument with my mom when they are behaving like children. Not my problem.

      What is my problem is to help my kids not repeat the pattern.

      What is my problem is to make sure I don't care about it and get drawn. To make sure that i shut it down when it's applied to me and ignore it. Been getting much easier to be cold when I see stuff as manipulative crap with no meaning behind it. The other part that was mine to deal with is to realise that awalt doesn't mean that all women are cluster B bat shit crazy. There are women out there that are well adjusted women. It sure as hell makes it easier to deal with a normal one though once you've lived with a cluster B extremist.

      [–]MrNatemare[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

      I hope I can spot one of these well adjusted women to date so I can really feel what one should be like.

      [–]Bpgiissues 1 point2 points  (1 child)

      It has taken some getting used to. Give my current ltr lots of credit for that. Have to admit it's taken time to readjust like not expecting violent blow ups when I go against her wishes or choose something that will be disappointing for her.

      [–]MrNatemare[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Fuck yeah I feel that. I dated a girl who was really nice to me for a while, and I felt genuinely surprised she was very obedient to me and just went with whatever suggestions I gave without objection. If I told her to wait for me she would wait for a long time and just mind her own business. Damn I really miss her now.

      [–]Luckyluke23 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      you make a good point man, I think the most i have grown has been in the past 4 years.

      4 years ago my mother left the country to live somewhere else.

      [–]wat94 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Great reminder, also remember that hate towards women reflects hate towards your mother. Fix your relationships with your parents, while you still can.

      [–]kubasniak 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      My parents are deaf. My father had beta/alpha traits but my mom was too domineering. Always. She never had a good plan, there was no intellectual atmosphere at home as my grandparents said. She spent money on clothes thoughtlessly and was always narcissistic. My parents divorced. I moved with my mom and brother to Canada and I found out many things I was wrong about my mom. The stepdad is a illiterate retard who can't read and speak properly. She obviously uses him financially. She got laptop she uses everyday all day. Things are not on time: dinners, cleaned clothes and she doesn't even work. She always had problems with jobs. She doesn't have work ethic at all. I and stepdad work and she doesn't and still doesn't do shot at home for 3 years already. Always defending herself that she worked for couple months cleaning houses. Then she went to school for immigrants to learn english and she doesn't know the language at all so I ask what the fuck did you learn those 2 years? Make a sentence for me. None. She can't even do that. Says ohhh there are other women who go for 8 years and don't know. I said wtf I don't give a shit about them. You need language to survive. I have 16 year old brother and its devastating how she's fucking him up. I always had to be a "parent" to him and still she doesn't check him on brishing teeth, if he takes a shower etc. Sits at home and plays all day. If he commits suicide when he faces reality then I will never see or speak to my mother again. Not even see the funeral. She treats us like 5 year old kids still. Fuck that, I have nothing to do with my mom. She doesn't even know me at all. She lives on facebook pretending a superstar. I see mental issues in itand yes, my home is completely pathological and I'm moving out soon.

      [–]pineapple998 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Beta behavior in my case comes from domineering father. It does not matter the sex of your parent.

      [–]Rodear 4 points5 points  (1 child)

      Of course they are insecure-they know something is wrong but bullshit feminism (as opposed to reasonable feminism of equal opportunity) has told them that women taking charge is 'good' when in fact if they had a man to admire and look up to and practised good shit and comfort test control they'd naturally be calmer with themselves and make their kids less neurotic. NO woman can surely enjoy sex with a guy she can walk all over. The red pill is freeing in seeing how things really are for the human race but at the same time makes me pissed off with the way things are.

      [–]MrNatemare[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Yeah every woman who got brainwashed sits here and thinks we can just defy our biological instinct programmed in us since our existence, without paying a price. Sure, you can walk all over a man, but get ready to fight that hypergamy voice in your head all the time and control your inner insecurities. Otherwise you are ruining things for everyone. It's like reading the part of the book about getting rich, but not the part that says how hard you have to work.

      Want to be like a man? Act like a man, take responsibilities and pay the price when you are trying to get something.

      [–]anabolic92 3 points4 points  (0 children)

      Im really interested on your case, so I might PM you because I feel on the same boat.

      My dad's dad died when he was very young (4), after a Civil War in the country I live. A single mother in those times struggled and my parents family grew poor.

      My mum's side is relatively rich so I always have thought that if it wasn't for love, my dad kinda saw the marriage as an option to leave poverty.

      My mum is very dominant, we always had to do what she wanted or she's scream and slam doors, she always lead, my dad almost never stood up.

      [–]i_have_a_semicolon 2 points3 points  (2 children)

      I'm gonna have to agree that parenting plays a huge role in a child's development. I had a mother who did her very best job at raising me which is why I think I turned out okay, but disfunctuon in my home life and between her and my step dad did fuck me up. My bf on the other hand had a very good upbringing, stable household, good parents, nothing really bad. Of course he ends up with very few beta characteristics, he's not over domineering either. He's just laid back, and usually pretty happy, although there have been times of anxiety around graduation and starting a new job which is normal. And he's also able to be sweet, and caring, which I feel like a lot of nice guys do but they do so in a desperate manner. He's not desperate for me, and that's what balances it out. I understand a lot of guys think that's not alpha, but if you're the type of guy who wants to be super alpha, it will be hard to find a woman who wants to raise a family as they are naturally drawn to beta traits. If a woman's good enough to be a good mother and wife, a man who has a good mix of alpha and beta will have a happy marriage and raise good kids (like BFs family). The domineering aspect of a woman's nature needs to be quelled as she should not be policing her children, but rather nurturing them. She should not be challenging her husband, but working through challenges with him.

      I believe such life does exist but it's rare and takes work. Meanwhile so many kids and teens come from fucked up childhoods. It's your job to work on what was fucked up when you were developing. At 18 you must seek independence and self sufficiency, all the meanwhile molding yourself to be the person you wish to become.

      [–]MrNatemare[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      It exists, and I have seen better ones. I have seen this alpha male in my life, and he bullied me to some extent. But I kinda liked him even though he was being a bit of a bully. Because secretly I want to be like him. The way he talked to his mother made my jaws drop at the time (I thought he was not being very respectful). But he has always been the centre of attention with his personality, and he does well in life. He is now also successful in work. That kind of personality is rare, but exists, and someone like him will not be beta in marriage. And he surely did not grow up in a household where his mother is the domineering one.

      [–]1jimjackjoe 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      The way I see it, there's only two types of parents: flawed parents and genuinely shitty/evil parents.

      Evil/shitty parents genuinely don't care about you and want to hurt you. Or are drug addicts and neglect you. Flawed parents are very other type of parents--including domineering mothers who try to over-protect you due to their own insecurities.

      Now, if you're a natural alpha, you're gonna reject/rebel against your insecure mom no matter how domineering she is. That rebellion will just come naturally. If you are more naturally passive/gentle/beta, the domineering mom is going to fuck with your head more. But this is more due to your own natural mental make-up.

      So if your domineering-but-not-evil mom fucked you up, that's more on yourself than on her. Forgive her and appreciate her for the positive things she has done. But certainly don't blame her.

      [–]Reckonerv3 0 points1 point  (3 children)

      What do you mean by unprogram yourself?

      [–]darkhindu 5 points6 points  (1 child)

      Unlearn all the beta habits that come naturally. I've only just begun, but the idea is to stop seeking approval, stop the comfort seeking behavior, and start pushing the envelope with taking risks in life.

      Personally this kind of shit really makes me resent my mother and though I do love her and appreciate that she's given me all sorts of advantages in life such as a bomb education, quality living environment and high quality traditional food, she has also put me socially behind and a lot of my 4chan autism does come from her behavior as a matriarch.

      Honestly just start following a lot of the things espoused here, like lifting and gaming women, because those kind of behaviors force you to be uncomfortable and discomfort causes growth.

      [–]MrNatemare[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Yeah I am not saying she has not done a lot, simply that it could be better. If we had the same income level, and our family composition was a alpha male/beta female combo I can assure you that I would have made a lot of life choices better.

      [–]MrNatemare[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      I mean deprogram. Getting rid of all the subconscious thoughts that are buried in my mind due to the way I was raised.

      [–]theciscokidisfastest 0 points1 point  (2 children)

      My mum gave me a lot of freedom but she was still my main parental figure by far (Dad works 6 days a week from before I wake up until 6 or 7, then would sit in front of the TV with a drink) and I got beta-fied pretty hardcore

      So just throwing out there that the 'dominating' thing isn't necessarily imperative to the betafying process

      [–]MrNatemare[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      Just the absence of father is enough?

      [–]theciscokidisfastest 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      In a way, I think a father's influence on his son needs to be pretty subtle and hands-off even when done properly though

      [–]RageLionRising 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Watch the show Bates Motel for a great example of the beta male/domineering mother dynamic.

      [–]ironrape12 0 points1 point  (2 children)

      My mother is extremely dominate and has turned my father into a completely ball less beta. In my family, actions come across a lot clearer than words (my parents speak mainly Spanish and understand little English). What is some body language I could use to tell my dominating mother that I just want to be left alone?

      [–]MrNatemare[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Never had to use actions. My parents are usually good at keep it just to words. But I just know you have to do what you do, despite what they tell you.

      [–][deleted] -2 points-1 points  (1 child)

      Red Pillers still upset about their mothers as adults, yet love to pretend they're grown men in control of their lives. News at 11.

      [–]Thaweed -1 points0 points  (1 child)

      Its about realising it and show her the man you become, show her nothing will make you fall.

      Show her that she can be proud of you.

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