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As the title states my bf (28) isn't a fan of his LTR wearing makeup. I do my makeup daily with foundation, blush, highlight, and mascara for work days. I do enjoy doing myself up to the nines on weekends with added little pops of color with eyeshadow and a nude, pinky lip. I don't think I overdo my looks and I don't even do my brows or wear false lashes, but my bf will comment on my"clown face" while I'm getting ready at my vanity.

He says whores do heavy makeup and his girl is not a whore, plus I'm apparently going to ruin my skin. I do struggle with hormonal acne and I get flare ups regardless if I'm wearing makeup or not, but he still attributes every outbreak I have to my makeup.

The thing is he's physically attracted to girls who happen to wear heavy makeup and he's probably not aware that girls who seem "natural" are in fact skilled at the no makeup makeup look. I take pride in my appearance and notice that he's more grabby and complimentary when I'm done up versus just hanging around the house in PJs with messy hair. I don't think he realizes it himself but taking time on my appearance does affect his behavior toward me on a subconscious level.

I get that he might be putting me on a pedestal with some kind of Madonna-whore complex. When he talks about the negative behaviors of other women (nagging, sleeping around etc), he tends to back track and note that I don't fall into that category of women. According to him I'm one of the"good girls." I'm having a hard time convincing him that I put effort into makeup not only to boost my own confidence, but to please him and him alone. When he makes comments about makeup I ask him if he would rather have a visually pleasing girlfriend who puts effort into her appearance or have me look frumpy.

He says he likes me better without makeup, but I'm hesitant to believe that based on his increased interest and advances toward me while I'm wearing it. I get that many men criticize makeup as artificially inflating SMV, but then watch porn featuring girls wearing pounds of makeup. Can you ladies share some insight on this? Makeup is almost a hobby for me and I want to understand how I can help calm his hostility towards me wearing makeup without becoming too defensive.


[–][deleted] 33 points34 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

I've totally been here. I don't want to make a bunch of assumptions about your boyfriend, so I'll just talk about my experience and let you decide if it sheds and light on what's going on.

In my case, we figured out after talking a lot about this that he actually really did find me more desirable with makeup on. The reason he would make rude comments about it (ie "clown face") is because it made him insecure to think that other men might find me just as desirable. It was really just a behavior that stemmed from insecurity (like your boyfriend, he had also been cheated on, and according to him it came out of nowhere - I think that kind of experience can do a lot of really profound damage).

I think that making him feel more secure when you're out on weekends might go a long way. Ie, when you're talking to a man, even if it's just a good friend, be aware of how he might be feeling. Try to maintain some kind of physical contact with him (hand on his arm, etc.) and direct the conversation towards conversations he is knowledgeable about and can feel confident discussing and away from inside jokes, mutual friends you have but he doesn't, etc. Not saying it will be a fix-all, but as his confidence builds maybe he will realize makeup is a thing you like that is harmless to him.

[–]platypus_nebula7 points8 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Thanks a lot! It does seem like the makeup is threatening to him in some way and I see the insecurity it stems from. Like I said, he's fine with it most of the time and tells me I look nice when I'm finished getting ready. A lot of it perhaps also stems from the "vanity" aspect of makeup and he sees it as a shallow and "basic" interest.

I notice he only makes comments when I'm in the process of getting ready, especially if that involves waiting on me to be done. I guess he's just impatient and grouchy about something he doesn't understand. I feel extremely uncomfortable just rolling out of bed and out the door like he does.

Perhaps he does also question why I have to have a full face of makeup when I'm in an LTR with him. I'm often dressed up as if I'm about to paint the town red even if I'm just going out to take care of mundane chores. When he says "sluts" wear a lot of makeup I can see him really meaning to say "single girls." To him, I'm still doing all the makeup as if I'm still looking to attract a man's attention, and this does make him uneasy.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

"I guess he's just impatient and grouchy about something he doesn't understand."

This! For sure. We spend our entire lives figuring out our makeup routines, but men don't share that experience, so it can definitely be a strange concept at first. Maybe he'll understand it better if you analogize it to going to the gym. Many loyal men in LTRs continue going to the gym, because their appearance still matters to them and gives them confidence, even though it can be considered vain, and even though they aren't interested in cheating on their girlfriend. Best of luck!

[–]TFWyourWaifuDies-3 points-2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Maybe he'll understand it better if you analogize it to going to the gym. Many loyal men in LTRs continue going to the gym, because their appearance still matters to them and gives them confidence, even though it can be considered vain, and even though they aren't interested in cheating on their girlfriend.

Bad comparison. The gym has many purposes. What purpose does makeup serve besides increasing beauty?

In addition, the gains from the gym don't disappear after 24 hours, unlike makeup. It takes weeks to notice minor physique changes, and months/years to notice more significant changes.

Makeup is like wearing a muscle suit. That's a more valid comparison.

[–]silvernikki5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I disagree. Makeup increases my confidence levels, makes my mood better and gets me noticed at work, not to mention how it makes conversations easier with strangers who are more willing to be nice to an attractive lady than a bare faced slob.

(Not saying that women who don't wear makeup are slobs, but I'm more likely to look nice when I have makeup on.)

[–]TFWyourWaifuDies0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

A man can say the same thing about a muscle suit.

[–][deleted] 55 points56 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

What you described reminds me of Madonna-whore complex.

My boyfriend loves my face no matter what kind of makeup I wear, from borderline drag to red acne girl. He never makes off-hand, negative comments about my appearance. Looks like he is putting you on a pedestal because he has his own underlying issues. You even recognized this yourself. Is he really capable of being a captain if he sees you that way?

[–]Godlyjessie0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Wow sounds like your boyfriend loves you.

[–]Puddles50328 points29 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The above would easily be enough for me to dump him. He obviously has a huge lack of maturity and emotional issues he needs to sort out before he can be a healthy partner. Hard next.

[–]RussianAsshole108 points109 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

Men show you who they are, we just don’t believe them. If he so proudly calls other women sluts....that’s how he thinks of us. Of women. Men don’t halt their misogyny for one woman unless it’s a facade. He’s someday going to call you a slut for a behavior he disapproves of someday, he just hasn’t told you yet.

[–]muabirdie14 points15 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Totally got those vibes from this post... Just felt uncomfortable reading this.

[–]platypus_nebula 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

I'm also of the mindset that excessive makeup, especially the use of very dark eyeshadow and lipstick, can be a slut tell along the same lines as tattoos and unnaturally colored hair are. In my experience, these are tells that a woman is overcompensating for a bitchy, neurotic personality or behaviors that are overly aggressive or masculine in nature. These women can't differentiate themselves from other women by cultivating a pleasant, feminine personality, so they alter thier appearance dramatically instead. It's a just a tendency, however, not an absolute. My bf thinks this is the case too. Are we both misogynists for having this viewpoint?

I don't think my bf was "proudly" or vindictively making this comment. This comment was extremely out of character for him and a one off type of thing. We all make perhaps off color comments at times about certain groups of people. I have assumptions about men that may not be completely true and sometimes that makes itself apparent. I'm not a man, and I can't speak to the male experience as well as my bf can, so sometimes I'm a bit clumsy with my opinions about the opposite sex. My bf takes those moments in stride and we both come to the conclusion that true or not, making negative assumptions about individuals before getting to know them is wrong.

While the comment was perhaps inappropriate in that particular context, making assumptions about my bf's character and how he's going to call me a slut someday based on one misguided comment is using the same flawed logic that he used in that moment with the slut comment. That comment is akin to a woman saying that weak, beta men overcompensate by always paying for a woman's drinks, dinner etc. We've been together three years and never once has he even hinted at me being a slut. This is because I'm not one and he's decided to commit to me due to not having the problematic qualities of a slut. He praises me for having great feminine qualities. I don't worry about him "turning" on me due to the fact I'm not one of "those" girls and he's very fair with me about that.

[–]KernelLingux 1 points [recovered]  (2 children) | Copy Link

I have to disagree with this, I'm a dude, I don't like makeup, and if I see a woman covered in pounds of makeup I'd prolly think she's a slut. With that being said, I also see plenty of beautiful women who seem to not flaunt their sexuality and pride themselves in their talents or careers, who I most definitely will not have a negative opinion of. Flip the script and think about your opinion of bar bros, is that opinion the same as what you would think of your dream guy?

[–]pearlsandstilettosModerator | Pearl[M] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Your preferences are not advice.

[–]KernelLingux2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It is, stereotyping men will have the OP thinking her bf is a monster, when in fact he may not be. Stereotyping is exactly what her bf is being accused of ironically.

[–]powertothemonsters32 points33 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Sounds like you've got yourself a manchild. He likes how women look with makeup, but doesn't like the idea of makeup. He wants a mutually exclusive event to happen, but it's just not going to happen.

By 28 years old a man should have had enough experience with women to differentiate between when a woman is wearing makeup and when she isn't (save for that Glossier bare face look, which is hard to spot). There's this great bit in Girl Code where Jamie recalls a guy saying to her, "I like that natural look, you know? Like Kim Kardashian."

There are red flags your boyfriend's behavior, but let's put on our rose tinted glasses for a moment and give him the benefit of the doubt. The first step would be for him to realize that these girls he's attracted to are wearing makeup. When you're out and about with him, gently point out when pretty girls are wearing makeup. "Look at her eyeshadow! I love the color." or, "Ooh, how did she get her foundation so smooth?" If he mentions that he finds a girl attractive, bring up her makeup. Don't be accusatory, don't say it in an I-told-you-so way, because then he'll shut down or get annoyed. You're pointing out flaws in his logic, so do so gently.

Next, point out to him that he seems to like you more with makeup on. When he grabs you for a hug and kiss, say "Someone's touchy today! Must be because I'm dolled up."
Now, to address the red flags. He shouldn't be calling other women sluts for wearing heavy makeup because that simply isn't true. You said "when he says sluts he really means single girls." He shouldn't be conflating singleness with sluttery. He seems to harbor resentment from being hurt by women previously, which pushes those incel buttons. It's extremely hard to undo emotional damage in your SO, especially if they're in their late twenties and their worldview has settled in. His behavior doesn't seem significantly bad now, but make a note of it as you progress in your relationship, because you may notice other toxic red flags.

If he's calling other girls sluts for no reason, he's going to call you one once you break up. Consider if that's the kind of man you'd want to be with in the long term.

[–]platypus_nebula 1 points [recovered]  (3 children) | Copy Link

I love the tactics! The slut comment was extremely uncharacteristic of him but still very concerning. If it has any bearing on the issue he is on the autism spectrum. I guess I should have pointed this out earlier. In this context, it's understandable why his behavior seems to fringe on incel or manchild territory. I've noticed that he does struggle with an underdeveloped social radar with women, and coupled with being cheated on by multiple exes, it's led to this problematic black and white assumption.

He probably couldn't tell you if a girl was wearing makeup or not unless she was going full sparkle glam. Heck, he thought some cosplayer online was hot but was blown away when I told him she was very obviously wearing huge bright blue contacts.

[–]WonderfulandValuable3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

That info makes a huge difference. People on the spectrum have a hell of a lot harder time to read people's expressions. Add makeup to it and it gets nearly impossible. I think he loves the look of a gentle makeup that does not make things harder for him. On you. The one he can read quite well. If you wore heavy makeup it would make reading you hard.

[–]Waterboo23 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

What made you choose him? I’ve known a few autistic men before and can’t imagine ever being romantic with one. One was creepy incel territory in one of my college classes (now that you mention it, I do think I overheard him complain of sluts once) and the other was a nice guy but just too nerdy to relate to on an intimate level.

[–]fosho_away 1 points [recovered]  (2 children) | Copy Link

Dude sounds misogynistic. Tricky to differentiate between traditional and misogynistic but they don’t have to come as a package. He sounds like he has a lot of generalized hostility about women that he hasn’t figured out what to do with.

[–]UnluckyCover13 points14 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Either hes an asshole or you need to learn how to apply no makeup makeup.

[–]HB32343 Stars2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think others have covered the red flag aspect thoroughly so I won't comment on it, except to say I echo the voices of the women here.

One practical way to address this is, next time you two are going out TOGETHER and he says something hurtful, put down your brush or your liner. Look him in the eyes, and say, "Ouch. Is that what you really think of me?" Then stay silent and wait for an answer. If he says something negative about other women/ you not being like that, "That hurts to hear too. Is that really what you think of other women?

If he says he doesn't like makeup in that conversation, tell him you love him and want to honor his wishes. You won't wear it. Wash off the makeup and then RESET, go out and have a grand night together. You must do this sincerely, NOT sarcastically or passive agressively. Your goal is not to condition him but to honor his words at face value, show him your respect by following his leadership.

Next time you're ready to go out, remember, you are reset. So you can put on your makeup this time if you get the sense he missed it. See if he says anything. If he feels you'll honor his opinions and act on them, with time he won't share them as if they were jokes. He'll know the weight of his words better.

[–]drunk_fish12 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think he's insecure and doesn't want other guys to find you attractive. However, make up on women makes us look professional and/or put together so my husband doesn't get to decide if I wear makeup or not, he gets a say in how I do my makeup only. If makeup is very important to you, you do need to have some boundaries and standards even in a RP relationship, most especially when you're not married and therefor still vetting x

[–]ayvyns3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Male hamstering.

He enjoys when you're dolled up, but doesn't want you to think he's attracted to sluts.

Just nod and smile, and keep doing what you're doing.

[–]Gordon-G5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Talk this out with him and don’t jump to conclusions

[–]Waterboo22 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Are you better looking than him with the makeup? Seems like he is very attracted to you while simultaneously worrying that you will attract someone better than him when you’re dolled up. It’s okay for men to have insecurities but if they take them out on you, it can damage the relationship for good. In that case, what’s the point? You are left with next to nothing. It’s possible that gaining confidence as a man will help him get over this, but will he do this?

[–]catipillar7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

My word. Your man shouldn't see you do makeup. Head to the bathroom, keep your essentials there, and get the fresh look done in less then 10 minutes. I wake up, grab a coffee, and head to the bathroom where I have a small kit in the cabinet. I brush my hair, slap on some under eye, quick contour, blush, and mascara all in about 5 minutes. I run the water and brush my teeth right after. I also moisturize and emerge in my bathrobe. He assumes that is just my face! When he sees me get "done up," I let him know I am "doing my hair."

He also knows that my "girl time" (pooping) is 100% PRIVATE time in the bathroom. During that time I take a good half hour if I need to, and I perch comfortably in the comode, whip out my compact, and enjoy my multitasking time.

Female time in the bathroom is sanctuary time. Use that time to make yourself fresh, highlighted, glowy, and glossed without male interference.

The basics make us a thousand times better, but they needn't be done with his knowledge.

[–]dabeast3213 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

He's right, excessive make up tends to be part of a whore's uniform. In my opinion, if you take pride in your look, shouldn't you focus on the natural, like your body through fitness, nice appearance through clothing, and skin through healthy eating and cleaning (which you did say you already do)? If you put on make up for him, couldn't you put on make up mainly just when your home, you know, for him since that's when he has you all to himself? When someone focuses on looks, like make up in this situation, lets be honest, you're not looking at yourself, other people are. Perhaps from your boyfriend's perspective then, he believes that you feel good when you put on make up because other men are checking you out and you enjoy that. I'm not saying that is the case, I'm just saying that may be what your boyfriend potentially thinks. You're also taking it to one extreme or the other. You don't have have a lot make up on but that doesn't mean you have to look dirty or messy either. In my opinion, a girl with a little bit of make up is fine, but at some point a certain amount crosses the line. But anyway, you claim makeup is like a hobby for you. If it truly is, and if this truly is an issue with him, it may be time to decide if there is a solution, or if it'd be better to end things than drag on a relationship that will have serious problems do to this issue later down the line. Lastly, if he came into the relationship with this attitude, i doubt you'll get him to change. He may pretend it won't bother him, but that feeling will always be there in him. How did he get to know you, were you wearing al this make up when he met you and dated you? If you did, he chased after you, and now is complaining, I'd say thats pretty hypocritical of him.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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