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I'm currently 33 years old and have never had a girlfriend. I literally have payed hookers for hugs, kisses and sex. For the last 12 years I have been living in social isolation and before that I was no star in social situations either. In short: I basically lived inside a prison of my own making with the exception that inside a real prison you might get a beating now and then.

Depression and social anxiety are no strangers to me. And I'm sure there are other psychological consequences that I'm not fully aware about.

On a daily basis I struggle with just being outside. There are girls everywhere. And I am extremely desperate and frustrated. I want to make some sort of contact, but I can't. Hiding away has been my life for the last 12 years. Literally waiting for the day to end, so I can sleep and don't have to think about my situation for 8-9 hours while sleeping.

My social skills are almost non existant. I do not have family or friends. Weirdly enough I do not really desire male friends. Desperation for some female contact has taken over any other desire. It has become the one and only thought on my mind, for every waking moment. I am aware this is not healthy.

I tried professional help against all my better judgement. It's not an option. Many reasons for it. No point in explaining those reasons.

I am aware that girls do not make my life suddenly be better. I do not expect that.

My biggest problem is that I have no clue on how to meet girls. Cold approaching is a big topic on this part of Reddit. However, I cannot for the hell of it imagine myself doing this stuff in my current situation. I have social anxiety and even looking in the direction of a girl can freak me out. Talking is even harder. And I really wouldnt know what to say anyway. All openers seem weird to me. Even saying 'hi' seems inappropiate and weird in many cases. (Im not from USA, just to make that clear)

I have been thinking about cold approaching for years now. I get stuck on the question of where I would even make my first attempt. Let alone try to say a single word. I just don't think it is "normal" or if it is, I cannot even imagine it in my head.

Join a club or get a hobby is what is said on some places. What club? What hobby? Where to find those things? I do not know this. I really do not. I might be stupid. It is frustrating. What kind of club or hobby can someone like me join to get a chance at a girl? No point in joining a chess club.

I tried online dating. Send hundreds of messages, tried different things. Those girls don't even bother sending something back and if they do I have no clue on what to say to make them send a second message. Waste of time. I guess I have to spend a year in the gym before having any chance at all. Statistics say plenty of couples meet eachother on dating sites. Is this bullshit or am I missing something?

Just getting a single date would be a massive win for my situation. It would show me that at the very least there is some hope.

One of the main reasons for living in isolation for this long is my desperation and frustration involving girls. This problem needs to be handled. It needs to be handles as quickly as possible. Everytime I try to change my situation I eventually end up running back to my "little prison". A person can only have a certain amount of willpower. Spending years on first doing other things before going after girls is just not possible. I give up much sooner than that.

Ideally I would like to find some "quick and dirty" solution just to keep motivation up. Something to lower the desperation temporarily, so I can focus on a long term strategy without burning away all my willpower. However, there might not be such a solution. I don't know.

It cannot be rocket science.

[–]Certifiedfamilylaw 74 points75 points  (9 children)

Why not a chess club? Start with your interests, meet people who share those interests.

Women will come later. I'd suggest fixing your health and worry about the rest when you have a good foundation.

Also, exercise.

[–]JuliusSeizure85 10 points11 points  (0 children)

This guy is right, you need to try to fix your problems before you make new ones. Girls are complicated and if you are isolated they will not feel very appreciated and that will hurt you both.

[–]dthlist 4 points5 points  (0 children)

He doesnt want hobbies, all he wants is a woman to replace porn.

[–]0x9A30D7C49714D98000 41 points42 points  (5 children)

Okay let’s say perhaps you DO have to spend a year in the gym to have any chance at all. Let’s assume that.

Then, a year from today are you going to be able to look back at this post and say this was the day you turned this ship around, you joined a local gym and started figuring out this lifting thing and building some momentum in a new direction. Or, you can just be another year older and look a little worse in the same place. I can tell you that as a man, there’s something magical about looking better each year while everyone else just gets weaker and fatter. You can look around for a gym near you right now.

Second thing you can do right now is join and find some activities you can join depending on your interests. Day hikes are an easy one because everyone likes to get outdoors in nature, you get some exercise, and you pretty much don’t need to have any experience or skills. You’ll also meet more people including girls, and in a year from now you’ll have at least a wider circle of acquaintances, some social hobbies, and much sharper social skills.

So practical advice is what you came here for, alright? There’s two actionable things you can do today that will help you change your situation.

[–]Locoboy713 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Amen to that

[–]burnyr 0 points1 point  (0 children)

As motivating as that sounds, hitting the gym won't change much for OP. I should know, as I'm a bit like him in some ways.

Only thing that changes is that he'll start getting some compliments and IOI's here and there, but if he's socially retarded like me nothing will ever come out of those situations.

[–]abcaaron[S] -4 points-3 points  (2 children)

Okay let’s say perhaps you DO have to spend a year in the gym to have any chance at all. Let’s assume that.

Not arguing against that. However, I do not think I am ugly or that much out of shape. Plenty people who look a whole lot worse. It would be nice to AND go to the gym AND have date, kiss, sex in the same timeframe.

You can look around for a gym near you right now.

Already going to the gym.

Second thing you can do right now is join

That's a good idea.

So practical advice is what you came here for, alright?

Yup. Thanks!

[–]PB0034 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Your answer sounds like you’re slave to instant gratification throughout your life, I know it sounds vague but it’s true. Start getting up early, workout, start doing BJJ, continue education, give up instant gratification habits like NoFap, social media, video games. This course of action will take care of your lack of self confidence. When you’re self confident you don’t give a shit about anything out of your control. Ppl around you will see your confident personality and try to befriend you or even fuck, in some cases.

It’s impossible for you to remain in your current state, if you do all that. If you have any further argument against this, it’s just your ego trying to take easy route rather than getting out of its comfort zone.

No one owes you anything, no one’s holding you back. You’re responsible for your future self. It’ll be overwhelming at first but soon you’ll get used to it, and gonna make your future the best thing ever.

[–]menial_optimist 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Nothing ever worthwhile happens in two seconds. The guy who owns his house paid it off 20-30 years. Depending on how beta/outofshape/insecure you are is proportional to how much work you need. Everyone is at a different level on most things.

[–]Endorsed Contributorvandaalen 39 points40 points  (11 children)

Ideally I would like to find some "quick and dirty" solution just to keep motivation up.

There are no quick fixes in live. Your belief in those is part of your problem.

Get your lazy fat ass up and start working. If you are living in isolation you should have enough times at your hands.

Nobody gives a shit about your rationalization attempts and excuses why your are "running back" to whatever shitty place you call home.

If you cannot be bothered to change and keep up with it, the degree of suffering simply isn't high enough for you.

Hit the gym, read the sidebar.

[–]DaveyOneBite 4 points5 points  (5 children)

^ Internalize this. Or don't, and continue to remain frozen in your pessimism.

Go ahead and shrug off therapy when you clearly need it, scoff at 'game' advice, give up on online dating, be too good for any hobbies, avoid the gym because you can't commit a year of work towards a greater goal. That mentality has been working great so far right? Your life is so great so you don't want to rock the boat and risk something changing right?

You need to disrupt your comfort zone, your preconceived notions and your life. If you can't man up and take control of your shit then you deserve the future you're heading towards.

[–]abcaaron[S] 0 points1 point  (4 children)

shrug off therapy

You have no idea about my history. To keep it short; I grew up in institutions because of shitty parents. I have been fighting whole fucking teams of these people while growing up. I have developed a hate and distrust for therapists that has no equal. Those people locked me up, without reasons, put drugs into me, and made me feel inferiour my entire youth.

And even with that history I went to 3 different therapists. The first one tried putting me on drugs before even knowing my name. Literally. The second one talked to me as if I where 8 years old and started drawing people on a whiteboard. The thirth one did not even know his own job description. Looked at me funny when I asked "What is your job?".

That's more than 1500 euros for nothing. I am not shrugging it off.

give up on online dating,

Spend months sending hundreds (perhaps thousands) of messages. Changed my profile many times. The most success I had was when I put on a picture of my pet and pretended to be my pet. They don't even bother sending something back and if they do it's like one word or something. How am I supposed to have some sort of interaction online if they do not say anything? Huh?

To me it feels like one big scam and I am the victim of the scam.

[–]DaveyOneBite 1 point2 points  (3 children)

Well it seems clear you need some internal work and need some help with it because what you have been doing has not been working.

I don't know what kind of therapists you're going to to get those types of experiences. In the US we have therapists that can't prescribe drugs even if they wanted to and are focused on thought therapy. Not trying to trigger you or anything but have you tried the drugs they wanted to put you on? If you have and they don't work/turn you into a zombie then def stay away but if you haven't then why not try them.

The other route is working through issues yourself. It sounds like you have not read and/or internalized red pill theory. That would be the first step. I'd also pick up some red pill books and masculinity books.

I could go on but the way I would look at it if I were you is that I've done it my way for 13 years and that has gotten me nowhere and made things worse. It is very possible that I have internal issues that are deluding me from the truth and leading to poor choices. You need to go against your grain and do things you are not comfortable with. Disrupt the status quo. Otherwise it is more of the same.

And for the tinder stuff check our articles at this page. . All I'll add there is that if you are sending boring Hi/Hey/How was your night messages you will get nowhere.

[–]abcaaron[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

I don't know what kind of therapists you're going to to get those types of experiences.

A large country wide organization responsible for mental health care.

I have gone both to psychiatrists and psychologists. Before even entering the door they want money. Lots of money. Before even knowing my name the psychiatrist started talking about medication. That's not how a doctor is supposed to practice medicine. At the very least I expect them to spend 0.5 seconds glancing at my file or something. I think they get payed for giving medicine.

It sounds like you have not read and/or internalized red pill theory.

I have read a large chunk of it. I have always been good in theory and be bad at being practical. I know how to build a house. But I do not know how to enter the door of the store selling the bricks. I get stuck at things like that. I have read a lot of Red Pill, Pua and whatnot. On paper it all sounds easy, clear and straitforward. In practice it feels impossible. I do not even know where to go. Let alone opening my mouth. Cannot even say 'hi'. Two letters. It feels weird, inappropiate and strange.

[–]DaveyOneBite 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Rejection is by far better then regret. The fact that you have been thinking of cold approach for years is sad you are wasting your best years.

Can you commit small and try cold approaching for one weekend? You've had 12 years, 600+ weekends, of avoiding it and hoping Ms. Perfect finds you. The gameplan is just not working you need to switch it up so start small and make small talk with women at the supermarket or something. Even if it doesn't go well you will feel better...almost like a relief from some built up pressure.

In addition I'd recommend the following. Perhaps the best course is to take one month and stick to the below steps religiously. Ignore your resistance to these ideas and commit this one month seeing as the other 144 haven't done the job. After that then force yourself through that cold approach scenario.

  1. Continue to study up on TRP, psychology, and masculinity. If you haven't read the Rational Make yet that I cannot stress enough that you should get it and read it in a week. Search this sub for other good books.

  2. Join that chess club. Or something similar. Maybe crossfit (I know I know but it's a good social environment) if you're working out. Again, your natural instinct will be to avoid this but assume your instinct is wrong and just do it. This step is not to meet girls, this is to get you out of your social seclusion and back around people. It will help.

  3. Take this month and work your fucking ass off in the gym. Lift heavy compound lifts 3x a week and high intensity cardio 2-3 separate days a week. Couple this with a clean diet, lots of water, and ample sleep.

  4. Find a hobby that involves progressively working towards something. For example I've started rebuilding old motorcycles. I didn't know anything about this before started so if I can start this hobby then I'm sure you can find something. The point here is that men crave the process of working towards a goal. They find happiness in the journey much more so then the completion. Add this element to your life.

Okay that's all the advice I got. Take it or leave it. It won't be easy but considering how what you have been doing has not worked and will quite literally lead to the death of your bloodline then I think it's worth a shot.

[–]abcaaron[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Can you commit small and try cold approaching for one weekend?

I tried, multiple times. Just walking towards a bar or something makes me nervous. Entering one makes me even more nervous. Even thinking about talking to a person makes me nervous. My fear response is extreme. I feel like I shouldn't even be there. As if people like me are forbidden and unwanted to even stand there in a corner or something. Like I do not belong. An intruder.

I tried and still trying to desentizise myself. Entering places. Just sitting at a table or something, looking at my phone. Trying to get myself and my emotions a bit more under control. It's hard. People are talking with each other. Laughing and stuff and having a good time. I do not. I do not enjoy it for one bit. It's a battlefield for me. Laughter is like gunfire, people talking is like grenades. Walking upto someone is like an execution. Groups of people are like fighter jets to me.

Trying to make smalltalk is the same as approaching to me. I do not see the difference. You have to walk up to someone and speak some words. It's combat to me.

[–]PB0034 1 point2 points  (4 children)

OP is unaware of ‘extreme ownership’. Everyone is at some point. I was, too.

[–]c9t1120 0 points1 point  (3 children)


[–]PB0034 1 point2 points  (2 children)

You know it

[–]c9t1120 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Ayyy. Yeah that's what this guy needs rather than feeling sorry for himself.

[–]PB0034 1 point2 points  (0 children)

He’ll get there. Just needs to give ‘Jocko Podcast’ a listen.

[–]bruiser18 10 points11 points  (6 children)

Get a therapist. Don't try to be some 'macho-man' and bottle everything up, go get fucking help. This is the starting point.

Start hitting the gym, get your diet in order too. It will take a matter of days for you to start feeling better and better.

Stop watching porn and wanking, it's destroying the reward system in your brain, search mybrainonporn(dot)com.

Try out a martial art, try a contact sport like boxing. Jiu jitsu, muay thai, mma and boxing are fantastic. Especially jiu jitsu imo.

Read the sidebar, find a therapist, plan a week of healthy eating and start lifting - in that order.

Good luck.

Edit: start reading. Buy some books, start with something non fiction that interests you. 'The great gatsby' and 'to kill a mockingbird' are two good ones I've recently read. Read about the law of attraction. 'The secret' and 'think and grow rich' are both very good books, do your research and find some.

[–]Fun2badult 9 points10 points  (0 children)

It’s never too late to start. Best time to start was 20 years ago, second best is now. You’re still young, and yo get get low 20s to 30s if you put in some work. I believe in you

[–]es1426 3 points4 points  (12 children)

Number one is always yourself. You need to find fulfillment in yourself. You’re imposing that fulfillment on women and I promise, as you have no experience, you will be let down immensely. No girl could hope to fill the void of all that waiting, even the most angelic nicest girl you’ve ever heard of.

Make yourself your priority. Women are the ornaments on your tree, not the trunk.

[–]abcaaron[S] 1 point2 points  (11 children)

You need to find fulfillment in yourself.

I don't know what that means. I just want to have a date, a hug, a kiss, some sex, without paying for it. I do not expect girls to fill a void in my soul or to solve my problems for me. Drug dealers, junkies, murderers, thiefs and plenty of normal average guys have girlfriends and/or unpaid sex.

Years ago I actually knew a drug dealer, thief and generally worthless person. He had more girls in one week than most guys have in entire life. He was ugly as hell and always smelled like piss and beer.

[–]Thunderfin 0 points1 point  (1 child)

You need to find fulfillment in yourself.

What makes you excited in life? I haven't read your post, but from comments above it seems like chess is your thing. What else are you passionate about? What makes you wake up and get out of bed?

Find an activity or extracurricular you love and pursue it. Find your purpose(s). Join local organizations, chat with others online about it, anything. 99 out of 100 times, other women will share similar or the same interests, and you'll be able to connect over a mutual love for something.

Oh yeah, and as others have said, start lifting.

Once you get into these basics, then you can start reading sidebar, books, etc..

[–]abcaaron[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I just used chess as an example.

What makes you excited in life? What else are you passionate about? What makes you wake up and get out of bed?

The "girl problem" is dominating my life. It took all my dreams, hopes, passions and excitement away from me. Drained me of fun. I just want the "girl problem" handled.

It's like telling a hungry person to enjoy all the great things life has to offer while all he wants is some food.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (8 children)

Were they fine or gutter trash? Just curious.

[–]abcaaron[S] 0 points1 point  (7 children)

Cute enough. Point is; That guy was total shit. Plenty of shitty guys have girlfriends. Even murderers in prison have (sometimes) a girlfriend. Child molesters have girlfriends. Junkies have girlfriends.

I'm sure I am better than those guys. How 'fullfilled' do I really have to be?

[–]dongpal 1 point2 points  (0 children)

They give them tingles.

Life is a competition. There are men out there who are strong, have money, social skills and/or lots of friends. What do you have? Think objectively. If you were a woman, why would you choose you instead of someone else? From all your posts, your value is not even zero. You are negative, you would drain them, you are a cost, not an addition to life.

[–]LethalShade 1 point2 points  (5 children)

Read more of the material here if you're still confused or angry about why that is. There are clear biological reasons why women go for that type of dude and clear biological reasons why they run from you like the plague. Knowledge and self-awareness are huge powers, use them wisely and in a few years you'll be a completely different person.

[–]HansMeiser5000 0 points1 point  (4 children)

So, when you admit that it's biological, than those who have weak biology are doomed to remain outsiders, because we cannot change biology?

[–]LethalShade 1 point2 points  (3 children)

Not at all, I was mostly referring to their biology, not his biology. The context is he seemed a bit confused of why a lot of girls would be attracted to the drug dealers, junkies, murderers, thiefs, etc as opposed to someone more normal who would (in theory) provide them more.

If you're over/underweight, socially awkward, socially isolated, etc there are some biological reasons as to why that is but most of it is your upbringing and your current environment.

You can start at 300 lbs and end up with chiseled abs. You can start with being terrified at the mere sight of an attractive woman and end up being the one that chats them up and makes instant connections with them. If you're a gamer at all, think of it like an RPG system. Most of your skills start at the bottom but you can grind them to the top.

I'd recommend three resources:

1) Read the Red Pill sidebar. There's a reason it's recommended in half the comments here, the stuff here has been tailored to bring guys from all the bottom of the lows to a point where they can take over their life.

2) RSD content. The pickup stuff is sometimes looked down upon here but RSD in particular is about much more than pickup and is ultimately about a well rounded and fulfilling life. Tyler, in particular, started out with a bunch of mental issues and childhood trauma and ended up leading a multi-million dollar social dynamics company. This is a good one to start on.

3) Leo makes phenomenal content for all areas of life and in this context specifically about relationships, self-mastery, negative emotions and toxic relationships both with yourself and others. I'd recommend giving this playlist a watch.

[–]HansMeiser5000 -1 points0 points  (2 children)

Thanks, but I'm not really interested in your brain dead bullshit red pill ideology. I only come here because its amusing to see the level of stupidity and brainwashing that characterized the people following your red pill cult. It seems that you guys are mostly people who lack confidence and who depend on guidance by other confused people.

[–]LethalShade 0 points1 point  (1 child)

A reaction is usually the sign of a wound, what irks you so much about the Red Pill ideology?

I don't subscribe to it myself, I think all ideology is bad. They do have some strong points though so I'm curious what exactly you disagree on?

[–]HansMeiser5000 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I disagree with the general idea that I have to follow some TRP, RSD or any other three letter acronym concept that only serves as a marketing and money making scheme for a few authors and wannabe experts, so that they can sell their books and services.

I also disagree with over-generalizing ideas about what humans are supposedly like, because there is not the one singular idea that works for everyone. For some people the red pill approach might be beneficial because it addresses exactly the shortcomings that these people have.

Another person's circumstances can be entirely of a different nature, so that this person needs a different kind of approach.

What worries me the most is the cult like character of these ideologies, usually with one or a few guys making ask the money from such schemes and playing the role of the guru. It's against my nature to jump on someone's bandwagon and tho subscribe to some external ideas without critically scrutinizing them. That's why it's pathetic to me.

[–]resnine 4 points5 points  (1 child)

The reason you don't desire male friends is "when you don't have it you crave it". It's the ultimate catch-22 situation. You want women but in order to get women you have to not want women as not seem desperate/needy.

You have to get a male group going on before you try to start initiating contact with females. This will build your confidence. Donate your time/energy to charity. Be part of organizations. I recommend to be part of something LARGER than yourself. Go to church, and there you don't have to talk to anyone the first few times just get antiquated with the atmosphere and listen to the message. People may want to talk to you out of curiosity. Start from there. You have to start low and work your way up. I know the feeling you describe, seeing beautiful women and just not having the social skills to go contact them. It's like having a carrot dangling in front of you, so close but so far away. It's so frustrating, it's torture, I know I've been there in some ways I am still there. I find it difficult to go up to strange women and talk to them but you have to if you ever want to be happy with above all else, yourself. Rejection is better than regret.

For talking to women, I don't care what others say, you have to do/say what comes natural to you in your own words not some 'line' you read on here. Being genuine and authentic goes a long way in a woman's mind. Speak from a place of what's real and actually you. I am not saying 'just be yourself', be the absolute best version of yourself not the sad one you are portraying yourself as. Because you know you can do better than this. You have to force yourself to be 100% comfortable and 100% confident in the situation when talking to women, any hint of weakness/shyness will bring up red-flags. Start small, fail lots of times and get better.

Might be a weird idea, but if you are hiring hookers, why not ask for help communicating. Tell them you'll pay them for their time just to practice conversing with women. The amount of value you'll get from that will be infinity;y more valuable than just having sex.

also important to note, what is your living situation like? job situation? car situation? your diet, sleep, and exercise. All areas need to be in-check upon self-mastery.

[–]LethalShade 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That could sound like a good idea in theory but please don't pay hookers to teach you social skills. What would that even look like? Having them pretend they're a stranger girl and have you hit on them? You think hookers have good acting skills beyond faking an orgasm?

Save the money, find an RSD Inner circle in your city and go out with local guys. They won't give a fuck if you're awkward as long as you're nice. Maybe pay for a dating bootcamp(haven't tried so can't say) but definitely get out there somehow.

[–]Ricklogical 1 points1 points [recovered]

Lifting fixes most of your issues. Do you have a career? You do not have to be socially acceptable to game women, you have to be comfortable in your environment doing the things you so best.

If you want to bang nines you have no quick and dirty solution. If you want sixes that will not take long at all.

Have to g we t beyond how stubborn you are about who the fuck you are.

You are not a solid person and everything about you can be changed

[–]abcaaron[S] 0 points1 point  (4 children)

Lifting fixes most of your issues.

I'm already going to the gym and putting energy into lifting. Although I am not ugly and at worst I am average looking. I see plenty of worse looking guys with girls. I want to know how they pulled that off without lifting. And I doubt they put much effort into learning seduction skill either.

Do you have a career?


Have to g we t beyond how stubborn you are about who the fuck you are.

I have no idea who or what I am. Not stubborn about it. I just want girl.

[–]Ricklogical 1 points1 points [recovered]

Just wait till you get a career. Women will come. Just focus on yourself till one comes along. Usually they fall out of the sky when you stop wanting one.

[–]abcaaron[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Usually they fall out of the sky when you stop wanting one.

Cannot stop myself from wanting one. Just like a hungry person cannot stop being hungry.

[–]Ricklogical 1 points1 points [recovered]

Don't think about others. Focus on your own growth. We all have shortcomings. Just because they have a woman doesn't make them happy

[–]abcaaron[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Not looking for happiness. Not expecting girls to make me happy.

[–]Tarnished_King 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Damn. I see posts like this and I would just hope someone would reach out to you, buy you a beer and show you that it's not that hard. You don't have to live with the crippling fear you have.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You know Issac Newton and Nikola Tesla were both allegedly virgins at their respective deaths. They contributions to the human race are why they are revered as two of the greatest human minds ever. But you obviously would much rather have sexual relationships with women than devote your life to intense study.

You seem to meet the prerequisites. Not ugly. Check. Not out of shape. Check. But then comes your crippling neuroticism and anxiety. This is your obstacle more than anything else. You also say you have no one in your life, family, friends or otherwise. Not trying to be harsh, but this seems to be the picture you're painting.

I'd say, if you're serious and truly desire a change, then you must desensitize yourself to social interaction. I'm no professional but I imagine it is like working out. You do an exercise at an intensity that is difficult, but doable, and you do it until you get some more muscles and then you add some more weight.

You need to immerse yourself in social interaction. Since you are very socially awkward and anxious, I suggest starting as small as possible. Play chess or video games online and chat with people. You can obviously type fine, so I recommend finding a good video game and getting a headset and talking to people online. Even if it is just childish trash talk, fucking trash talk those bitch ass nerd kids until you are confident enough in your speaking abilities to make everyone of them rage quit. Find a way to talk to people online using your voices. Too easy? Start talking to male coworkers or male cashiers at checkout at the store. Too easy? Join a chess club or a club where other people share a common interest. Make them men at first. Baby steps bro. Too easy? Start talking to ugly chicks you would never fuck, even at your most despacito momento (is my Spanish right? LOL). Next, look for an awkward woman online to talk to. Seriously, go to an Anime subreddit and make a post saying "I am a 33 YO awkward and extremely socially anxious man who has never had a girlfriend or sex or physical interaction with a woman without having had paid for it. I am trying to overcome my social anxiety so I can move forward with my life. I am looking for a 18+ YO woman to speak with online audio only at first. Hopefully we can progress to video chat and possibly to in person meet-ups, logistics willing that is. Preferably looking for a woman who is also socially awkward/anxious, who shares at least 1 common interest with me, who is also looking to overcome their social anxiety." Post that on a bunch of subreddits that socially awkward/anxious women go on and move on from there.

Call me crazy, but I believe that there are lifestyle changes you could make to feel less anxious and nervous. Like

-Sleep at least 8 hours per night, preferably waking up and going to be close to sunrise and sunset around the same time each day/night.

-Drink 2L of water a day and get enough Sodium, Potassium, and Magnesium in you.

-Eat a healthy diet (enough calories, at least the RDAs for micronutrients (don't exceed the Tolerable Upper Intakes), don't eat/drink junk foods, etc.)

-Run until you are running at least 4 miles a day without stopping

-Lift or at least do Bodyweight exercises

-Get some sunlight each day

-Meditate ("Breathe" App, "Headspace" App, and the book "Breatheology" are your friends.

-Meet some people you can connect with. Make friends and try to talk to reach out to at least 2 people everyday

-See a fucking mental health professional (you have money to pay hookers to hug you, yet you can't afford 1 visit? Why was that visit a mistake? I got a friend who is about 10 years younger than you who is the same way who is afraid of being Baker acted and so he doesn't go to a Therapist or Psychiatrist. Is it something like that with you?)

I feel for you man. I really do. You got to train yourself to be calm in social situations. Reach out to people.

[–]anonanonetc 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The best time to plant a seed was twenty years ago. The next best time is right now.

[–]Aralant 1 point2 points  (0 children)

There are many men who choose to go into monk mode. Understand that in chasing women you are exchanging loneliness for drama. Even the most laid back woman will still have some amount of drama associated with her.

[–]michaelkc03 1 point2 points  (0 children)

In my opinion it seems like you have extreme social anxiety. I think the best option would be gradual desensitization....just start out making eye contact with 5-10 strangers a day. Look at it the same way as weight lifting, progressive overloading. Once you can make eye contact, chat up a few strangers...they can be dudes, fatties, whatever feels equivalent to your skill level.

Build with baby steps. It won’t happen over night. Another observation from my anxiety usually comes because my attention is focused “what will they think of me if I say “hi”? “Are they judging my walk right now?” This clicked for me when I read this quote: “fear and doubt are an indicator that your need to shift your attention”

So try focusing your attention on to the internal/the present moment. Aka “what would make my life more fun right now?” “What do I feel like doing?” Forget the external judgements/consequences they don’t really matter. If you take a couple seconds to say hi to a girl bare minimum you walk away ALIVE and she gets her ego boosted.

You got this brutha, progressive overloading!

[–]Auphor_Phaksache 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I wish I could just say "do this post but with your mouth." You seem pretty chill. Just talk. But I know it's not that easy but if it's any consolation you come across like a down to earth dude.

[–]showerdudes9 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Your problems are like identical to what mine were including social circle/lack of family and friends.

We are the same age too.

What you need to do is stop all porn and nasturbation, period. This is the source of discipline and motivation you need. After that start taking daily cold showers. Great health and discipline benefits. Then start lifting. As opposed to everyone else in this thread i start with the important things you need to do BEFORE lifting because if you go lift first you will never maintain it as your discipline as of current is shit and comfort levels WAY too high. You need to kick that survival instinct alive. We are 33 but we still have a shot at a great life if we deal with this now. Its not worth waiting until we are 43. Then our chance might be over.

[–]wild_deer_man 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I tried professional help against all my better judgement. It's not an option. Many reasons for it. No point in explaining those reasons.

I'm sorry but your situation is not very common, so saying that professional help is not an option does not seem like the better judgement.

There are many typea and approaches available today and I am sure you will find one that fits you. I personally think that the normal, talking type psychology is very limited and would rather recommend a kind of behavioral treatment that will also push you to act and do this things that are hard, like approaching women.

I am sure you need not only the ability to act but also someone to help you deal with all the load of negative emotions that come with your situation. Otherwise, you might take one step forward just to fall two backwards.

[–]anonymau5 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Are you lifting?

[–]abcaaron[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Started recently again.

[–]redvelvet_oreo 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think you have a lot to work on but girls should be the last thing you work on. You need to start becoming a person and loving who you are first. I would start with the following:

  • Start Going our and meeting people. As other people suggested join a chess club or go to a place where people have the same interests as you.

  • Work on your Voice and Speaking. This sounds stupid but a lot of people suffer from “not having a voice” and don’t know it. RSD has some good exercises on just shouting and making noises to kind of loosen you up. Even singing a song out loud daily can help with this

  • You need to learn how to stop being stuck on Logic. Many intelligent guys don’t realize they get stuck in logic mode. Everything has to “make sense” In reality most things never make any sense and are completely irrational. Learning how to break out of your logical mindset will help you become more social.

  • Get to a gym and pick up some new hobbies.

All I got for now on mobile. Hope this helps

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Try complimenting girls. “I like your shirt.” “Cute necklace.” Etc. Don’t try to necessarily pick someone up or be obviously flirty or weird. Just be casual. Make it a habit to all females, regardless of age. You’ll get better at it. Make it a game to see if you can find something to compliment about people you come into contact with. Regardless of outcome. You never know. Sometimes a connection can be made at times when you’re not even really trying.

[–]abcaaron[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

My fear and insecurity stops me from even saying "hi". One word, two letters. I don't even know in what envoriment I should go. Bars and clubs are like battlefields to me. War feels less terrifying to me.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well the only way to conquer fear is to face it...regularly. Practice it. Even if it’s one word. Start there. Surely you can walk into a gas station or up to some checkout counter and say “thank you” after you pay. If that’s the case then surely you can say “thank you...oh those are cute earrings.” Or whatever. Just practice doing it. You have to. Do it for yourself. Don’t tell yourself you can’t. Because you can.

[–]Rollo_Mayhem3 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You don't have your priorities straight. Build male friendships based on common interest. I don't inherently desire male friendships either but they useful and necessary. Is your physical and financial house in order, if not, start there. Otherwise make a friend or two to get out in the world. Anti-anxiety medications ineffective?

[–]wawakaka 0 points1 point  (0 children)

you have created the life you are have to look at the choices you are making and ask why. sounds like you have control and intimacy issues, you may be scared to take chances.

certain personality disorders lead to isolation like borderline personality disorder. society is in downward spiral right now. perhaps you are simply avoiding all the misery that can come from dealing with a relationship and women.

[–]redpillspeeddate 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Going to second the advice here of women are not first, you need to go do challenging other things then women come after.

I turned my whole life around when I started surfing, not because it is easy but because it is so hard but one of the most rewarding experiences you can do.

If you are not near good surfing, I highly recommend taking up scuba diving. Scuba is an oddly social sport in that you need to do it with a buddy but you can’t talk while actually doing it. There is usually a great and friendly community around it. It’s not the best for meeting girls but it helps get more social and its fun. Get a GoPro, take some dive videos, now you have something to talk about with girls. Even if they don’t dive a video of you playing with a seal or swimming with sharks will impress.

You don’t mention an occupation but if you have the means to travel go to your nearest major city and stay in a youth hostel - go to their planned club nights, everyone is all in the same boat as no one knows each other so in the ride over to the club you are forced to talk to others as they will start the conversation with you. This works in the USA and in Europe.

Travel, go be interesting, do interesting things and the rest will follow

[–]_hazlo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Go on vacation to Thailand. Get a permanent smile on your face.

[–]wheresMYsteakAt 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think you might have some deeper issues. I know that's cliche but I say that because of the way you described getting professional help and the fact that this narrative begins 12 years ago while you are 33 now.

You are entirely focused on women and this is dangerous but no shit right? You probably already knew this. Chess club wont help you get insta laid but it would give you something to do, make you more social, less desperate and possibly boost your testosterone congregating with other men even if you don't rise in the male heirarchy , iron sharpens iron.

Then you add another hobby, it could be counting blades of grass. Doesn't matter, anything that keeps you out of your house. The man who moves mountains begins by carrying small stones.

I'm not sure about directly targeting the actual problem; my first thought Is to ask people directions, what time it is, etc just something that gives you light social contact and has no risk associated with it.

That's about all I got.

[–]Endorsed Contributormonsieurhire2 0 points1 point  (2 children)

The tone of your post is defeatist. Also, it seems like you may suffer from anhedonia (sp) meaning you haven't experienced positive emotions recently enough and psychological pain is your norm.

"What hobbies? What clubs?"

Just make a list of typical hobbies and clubs. Then rank them by what you think you might like. If you like the idea of none of them, then several things:

  1. You are being defeatist;
  2. You only think you won't like it;
  3. If you really want to know if you will like something, you have to invest a minimum of 3 months of activity where you go several times a week;
  4. It can't be a pretext for meeting girls; what makes you attractive is your interest, not hitting on people because the club is a pretext;

Now, assuming you never get a real relationship for the rest of your life, is that a bad thing? Read the stories on here. Even the success stories are fraught with peril. Divorce rape, hypergamy, venereal disease, raising Chad's kid for 18 years, imprisonment on false allegations, getting fired, dealing with BPD, NPD, psycho chicks who damage your property and reputation. Welcome to reality.

  1. Also, lift, proper sleep, proper nutrition, hydrate, work on your appearance, avoid the bad stuff. Easier said than done.

  2. Read the side-bar

[–]abcaaron[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

psychological pain is your norm

My whole life, including childhood, has been about fear, confusion and lonelyness. That is my norm. Changing a whole life of this is incredible difficult. Keeping positive thoughts in head is difficult when there are a thousand times more negative thoughts.

Now, assuming you never get a real relationship for the rest of your life, is that a bad thing?

It depends on how you define "real relationship" and "rest of life", but...

Yes, if I could predict the future and be 100% certain of failure, I would kill myself without any regret or hesitation. Only reason I am still alive is because I still have hope.

[–]Endorsed Contributormonsieurhire2 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Eh, it may seem that it was ALL that way, but if you search your memory, you might find that there were some instances of joy.

So, what you should do in that vein:

  1. Get a notebook/pen handy; avoid computers for now, because it might distract you;

  2. Search your memory, and try to find instances where you experienced joy, euphoria, happiness, even if it was only temporary; write these down. If you can't find any, try finding instances were you were neutral, or less miserable.

  3. Once you have your list, find ways to start exploring those activities.

  4. Also, you should note, that it IS possible to experience happiness. I mean, people take drugs that make them feel happy all the time. It is considered immoral because it is UNEARNED happiness. People are supposed to work to deserve it as a reward because otherwise people stop being productive. Of course, everyone could say fuck it and live hedonistic lives, but if everyone did this, civilization would break down. On the other hand, if you are feeling miserable all the time, it could be because you believe you don't deserve to be happy, that you feel guilty about something, or that you feel unworthy in some way. You need to let yourself out of this mental prison and try to find non-drug related ways to feel happy. Also, recognize that women ARE a drug. They produce drug-like effects. Also, the media, food, etc. Everything is. So you need to find ways of feeling good that are inexpensive and easily deployed. Sometimes it can be as simple as sleeping in and dreaming, or it can be taking a walk, or taking a milder drug, like a cup of chamomile tea, or a cup of coffee, or listening to piece of music, or making something.

  5. Also, recognize, that sometimes, avoiding negativity can be about distracting yourself from the negative, but in a productive way. This is why people are always saying: go lift, go make a to do list, go do something. At the very least, it takes your mind away from some invisible worry you have no control over. In fact, part of the reason I go on here, is because I can offer up a bit of my time and energy to people who are in difficult situations that I myself have dealt with, and continue to deal with, but to a lesser extent, and I feel somewhat good about that. I remember, one time, I PM'd this guy who was despairing back and forth for weeks, as he made endless excuses that I refuted relentlessly, never giving up, even though I privately worried that I was wasting my time on a lost cause, and one day, he wrote to me thanking me saying that he took some of my advice to heart, made some changes, and was enjoying success. Coming here for advice is an important first step because you admit you have problems and are seeking advice. The next step is to apply the advice given and keep working.


Also, you link fear, confusion, and loneliness together. Also, you have them as negative things. But people sometimes experience fear as pleasure, like when they go to a scary movie, or confusion as pleasure, when they drink or take drugs to derange the senses, and some people ENJOY solitude because people aren't making time or energy demands on them, and they can just be. However, if these things are FORCED on you, or you don't feel like you can control them, then they become problems. You should write down all the things you are afraid of, confused about, and instances where you enjoyed or hated being alone. Making a journal can be a good thing, if for no other reason than to get stuff out of your head where it gnaws at you.

Also, if you define success as getting some unicorn (i.e. a woman who is beautiful, intelligent, even-tempered, etc. etc. and perfect in every way) to be your life companion without any hiccups, you are setting the bar impossibly high. You can enjoy a very successful life with zero female contact, but it takes sleight of mind, my friend. I mean, just look at all the guys who post on here about they get with hot women and blows up in their face. Much of this stuff is in your mind. Over the years, if you're like a lot of people, you have been consuming a steady diet of media hallucinations about what life is supposed to be like. When of the hallucinations that you see is some hot woman who has all these skills, abilities, and innate talents winding up with an average guy. This is all a bunch of horseshit. What's the reality behind this hallucination? A bunch of poor and / or insecure women who are attractive were groomed to run out to Hollywood and compete for the privilege of being cast in these hallucinations as "actresses," when most of their "acting" is really just a carefully stage-managed process to make it appear that they have talents they don't really have. What this means is that a business will make bets on certain people based purely on their bodies, and ability to be coached and directed, and they'll deploy specialist personnel to "groom" them: personal trainers, nutritionists, psychologists, coaches, make-up artists, stylists, etc. Then they cast them in films where a writer creates a fictitious character for them to play; the character is a wish-fulfillment fantasy being sold to the masses, which are people who are lacking something in their real lives, which is why they escape into fantasy. That's why all the plots are so similar: it's because the fantasies are unchanging. Every average guy fantasizes about some perfect woman who will make him feel good. Universality of fantasy is what sells product. If they only catered to niches, then they would go bankrupt. Of course, they are overreaching further now, trying to get guys to accept fatties and fuglies? Why? So they don't have to hire as many specialists and invest as much money, probably. I mean, if you were a business person, and it occurred to you that you could form a cartel with other people in your field to sell the same lie, only at a lower cost, wouldn't you jump at the chance? Also, for most people, the present lie is unattainable anyway. We all get older, more decrepit, etc. Most people don't have the resources to be more than middling professional, let alone a superhero billionaire industrialist supermodel who fights crime in their spare time, like Batman. I mean, think about how unrealistic that fantasy is. Batman is omnicompetent; he has mastered a whole range of skills and microskills that allow him to behave analogous to a god. If you think you are a failure because you can't become Batman over the course of your life, then you aren't thinking realistically. And even if you could, you would have to start out as a billionaire, like him. Also, do you really think that Batman would even be alive for very long? All it takes is for some punk to get lucky. Happens all the time in a warzone. The mob and or the CIA would track him down in a minute and send a kill-squad to Wayne manor. Harsh reality. He's another wish-fulfillment fantasy to average people who are preyed upon by the wealthy and powerful.

[–]AnjaJutta 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You don't need to do xyz things for x months and y years to get a chance. You need to structure your life so xyz are a daily part of your life until you die.

[–]UncleChido 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Lift. Lift. Lift. Like others have mentioned. You say you’ve started lifting, but I’m guessing you’re not lifting enough. Lifting gives you that confidence you need.

Another thing is dressing well. Find clothes that fit and always look good. This completes your confidence.

Last thing. Start going to places where girls are. No approaches. Just sit and be comfortable around them. Stay at least 30 mins each time. This should slowly make you comfortable around girls. Weeks later (while reading the sidebar) you can start approaching. Gently of course.

[–]3d_truth 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Here are the quick fixes.

  1. Join a gym and lift.
  2. Talk to strangers. I know it's uncomfortable but this will she'd your social anxiety like nothing else. Start easy and ask people basic directions. "Is there a 711 near here?". Do at least once a day.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I feel you, mate. But you gotta do it now. Half of your life is already over...

Whatever bullshit others try to sell you, here are the THREE MOST IMPORTANT THINGS YOU SHOULD BE DOING:

  1. LIFT


  3. Take action, mate.

There is no other way. <---- Don't let this sentence put you in a depressive mood. Instead, realize that less than 1% of the male population (<70 million out of 7 billion) on our planet understand this and act. Count yourself among the lucky ones. Bona fortuna!

[–]screechhater 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Quit feeling sorry for yourself smd join a gym. Hire a female athletic trainer.

Take dance classes taught by a woman

Find s womam counselar

Lift. And lift.

Get om youtube for tios on dress and proper behavior.

Journeys start with the first step

[–]Morphs_ 0 points1 point  (2 children)

OP, in what country to you live? You mention euro's, so that is somewhere in the EU I assume. The psychologists you've been to are wack. I got help from one last year, a guy one year older than me. I specifically requested him because at first I was paired with a 20-something chick first who seemed incapable at helping me, because I wanted to discuss my depression, masculinity and sex.

Considering you've been hiding for 12 years, you have a lot of catching up to do. You say you want a shortcut to dating/fucking a chick without paying for it, but hookers ARE that shortcut.

If you want to have a woman geniunely want to have sex/cuddle/whatever with you, you need to come across as someone who has his life in order at least a little bit.

The aspects for you to work on are: physical, work, mental and social. - Mental: learn how to meditate. I would actually advice you to go and find a Vipassana meditation retreat. I think it's perfect for you since it's really hardcore and talking/social contact aren't allowed for the during of the ten days you're there. You'll develop a lot of insight in yourself, your past and you'll learn some willpower to get things started in your life. - Pysical: go lift, lift harder, research into diets. If already covered, add some form of martial arts or learn to dance (which is what I did). - Work: get a job. Doesn't matter much what job at first, but you have to develop work ethic, else you won't be getting anywhere. Earning your living feels good. If you're smart you can devise something from your house, else flip burgers. - Social: this one is the most difficult because it entails a lot of anxiety. Start slowly with small challenges like simply going to the mall, or have a beer by yourself in a bar. Then start to say "hello" to people as you pass them by while entering/leaving a building. Make small-talk, etc.

You can start at some point and go from there, or work on all four of them at once. All will in some way help you get a girl, with work being the one most distanced from that (i.e. you work for yourself and your own life mostly).

[–]abcaaron[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

in what country do you live?

The Netherlands. Amsterdam.

The psychologists you've been to are wack.

Funny thing; My house doctor managed to deduce my problem with girls within 5 minutes. I didn't mention anything remotely about it. He is the only person who has ever uttered a word about girls. I wish he was a psychologist.

[–]Morphs_ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I live in the Netherlands too. Originally I asked my house doctor for a referral to a psychologist to check if I had ADD because I had symptoms. It turned out I wasn't an official case, but I had strong signs of depression. We started to work on that first, but eventually we got to more core stuff which also revolved around women in my case.

Know that in our country there's no problem asking for a different psychologist. Having studied psychology myself, I knew this and the chick I was paired with to took no offense. I was very happy with the switch.

Still, some stuff cannot be discussed very well with a psychologist. Masculinity stuff was fine but I noticed that stuff like NoFap was too distant because it holds no official scientific ground. TRP knowledge is probably too harsh (they usually have families themselves).

Hit me up if you want to talk some more.

[–]Two_kids_in_a_coat 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Read no more mr nice guy. You NEED male friends, you’re looking to women as validation which is basically female repellent. Get to the gym, lift heavy shit, make some male friends then come back in six months. There is no one step cure, but there are many steps you can make to get what you want.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It sounds like you're not even trying due to your social anxiety and fear of rejection. No girl is gonna kick your door in and say "give me the d right now." You got to at least put yourself out there (physically), and you will probably have to approach unless you are Chad Thundercock. Those evil scumlords you described have an advantage over you in getting women in that they are physically around girls and can talk with them. That's about it.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Start for small. Dont even think about cold approaching for now. Start of with something like saying "Hi" to one person every day. Then gradually build up your interactions to the point where you realize there is nothing to be scared of

[–]H8CourtshipALot217 0 points1 point  (0 children)

why am I not surprised, it enrages me as to cases like this happen to men more than women

[–]iFrashi 0 points1 point  (0 children)

wtf ahahahaha

[–]HansMeiser5000 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It seems that you suffer from the psychological phenomena referred to as "tunnel vision". When we experience scarcity of a resource we feel we urgently need, we can become obsessed with it tho a degree where the obsession itself is detrimental. I can relate because I'm in a very similar situation to yours. Check the NPR podcast series Hidden Brain, there is an episode called Tunnel Vision that has a good of the phenomena.

[–]thingsnstuff881 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Get your butt to a therapist ASAP, not kidding. A good one, not government funded, ask you family to help wit cost. I'm not kidding,

I had been living with Social anxiety and depression for almost 20 years. It turns out I was actually suffering from PTSD from something I didn't even know about. It might not be that bad but buddy, your story sounds very familiar.

First I saw a Psychologist to help treat Anxiety without meds, that got me excising, mediating and eating better. We saw a little progress, not much. She eventually diagnosed me with PTSD. I started doing something called EMDR therapy with another psychologist. It was hard but it fixed a lot of issues, and got rid of a lot of anxiety. I'm still not 100% there, but its still 10x better.

When ts all you are use to, even if its horrible the fear of things getting better can be worse than anything else. Find a good therapist, get a proper diagnosis and start working on this. You can make all the excuses you want not to but all you are doing is coming up with rationalizations to stay in your safe lonely way of life.

[–]numandina 1 points1 points [recovered]

You're a loser who shouldn't contribute to the gene pool. I'm really sorry. Find a passion so you leave something behind for our civilization. Get into academics or the arts.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (3 children)

Why is he a loser who shouldn't contribute to the gene pool? Specifically? I say this guy should still try no matter what and that he is only a loser if he gives up. Why do you disagree, specifically?

[–]numandina 1 points1 points [recovered]

33 years old and never had a girlfriend. This is huge. This person has something seriously wrong with them. I don't live in the USA but is this considered normal? Sorry if I come out as insensitive.

[–]circlingldn 0 points1 point  (0 children)

pretty much, thats why india, and islam turned from one male having 20 wives to a much more 1+1 society

its in the genes

if he was born in a muslim or indian country, he would be married with kids, its a problem with society

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Definitely not normal for sure, but people such as Issac Newton and Nikola Tesla were allegedly virgins at their respective deaths. Point is, I would say that those two men were worthy of reproducing and yet they didn't. Having a girl or having one let you cum inside of them doesn't make you fit or unfit for reproduction. Think of all the stories like "even this fat, ugly loser is getting laid, yet I look like Chad and have a college degree and am getting zero puss."

Also, this implies that this man can't change for the better. You're telling him to give up. It is possible for this man to turn his life around. Yes 33 is way more than a late bloomer, but I don't care if he is 43, he can still turn it around.