TheRedArchive

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I was inspired by a post I spotted on askTRP The OP asks how others discern a woman's partner count.

Some of the comments from the thread:

None. Because: a) they won't tell you anyways the right number. b) why would you care about her n-count? To know her n-count wouldn't change anything. You would fuck a hot girl even if she had 30+ dudes and you would fuck a hot girl even if she had less than 2 dudes.

and

You don't need to determine it at all, because it doesn't really matter. Sure, if you're looking for someone to settle down with (if you insist on doing that), then you probably won't want a girl with a 3-digit n-count. But the thing is, if she fucks around that much, you'll be able to tell through other signs without even trying, long before you even think about asking her about her n-count.

and

Set back and observe her in a nonjudgmental pose and never ask direct questions about her sexual past that she would detect as fishing and cause her to erect a larger wall/lie more. Simply put, there are things that sluts say and do more than nonsluts. It takes experience with both groups though. For instance, sluts tend to: fuck you the first time you are alone together, lie a lot, look for male attention/validation more than usual, have a bad relationship with their dads, not have many female friends, have tattoos/body piercings, smoke/drink or at least used to party a lot, and are often very skilled at sex and do "taboo" acts quickly/easily.

I have noticed that it is common for people here to say "oh well, a man has never asked about my sexual history. Normal guys aren't concerned about that kind of thing."

On one hand I understand the sentiment. The thought of a guy carefully writing down notes about what a woman has done, and with how many guys certainly doesn't make you feel weak in the knees as a woman. It's chump behavior and the kind of sour weakness that automatically makes women feel the need to sneer.

On the other hand, I think there's a tendency to either misinterpret or ignore what's actually being said.

Consider this post an effort to clarify things for both sides. TRP often talks about 'slut tells.' It's important to understand that having a tattoo, or smoking, or even going to a bar with friends are not inherently bad things. Coupled together with other behaviors, they become 'tells,' red flags that indicate a woman has questionable morals, low future time orientation, that she is prone to impulsiveness, and is willing to engage in risky ventures.

You are not a 'bad' woman if you curse, or if you had a hard childhood. However, if you engage in a lot of behaviors that are questionable and communicate certain things, then you shouldn't be surprised when people treat you a particular way.

Looks matter, a lot. A woman covered in tats, with piercings all over and skimpy clothes with stilettos shouldn't feel confused when men cat call after her or are overtly forward with her. Appearance is the easiest thing to change and control. If you find a lot of undesirable men taking interest in you, while the ones you would like to date ignore you, then you should look at your appearance and the way you talk.

It's also important to understand that men are not 'mean' or 'stupid' when they judge you on your looks and behavior. In truth, everyone judges everyone else. The people that say this is wrong or that claim they don't are either lying or stupid or both.

Women should be judging men and looking for male 'slut' tells as well. If he is unreliable, evasive when it comes to planning, and doesn't keep his word, then you should be concerned. Players should be avoided at all costs, and don't fall for the all too common trap of thinking you can 'save' or change him.

Don't date someone expecting them to change, date people with the expectation that they will always be exactly as they are now. It's dangerous to 'see potential' in others without first confirming that they have the desire to grow in positive ways.

It's true that there is no sure fire way to identify a slut, male or female. It is also true that looks and behavior are the best ways to evaluate another person's character.

You should be a person with standards and strong beliefs. More importantly, you should expect any man you date to also have his own standards and beliefs while also meeting your standards. This can be tricky, because if a woman expects too much of others, while bringing very little value to the table as a woman, then she's going to end up frustrated.

Do you have any traits or characteristics that are commonly considered 'slut tells'? How do make sure that these things do not scare off potential romantic interests? What are you working to change now? What traits or behaviors do you think men place too much emphasis on?


[–]mwait[🍰] 13 points14 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

The absolute biggest "slut tell" that I have found, is when women want to talk about sex in front of men. Be it men that are potential partners, men that are friends or colleagues, etc. It almost never seems to fail... if she starts actively and enthusiastically engaging in a conversation about sex in front of men, she gets around.

Another big one is contraception. If she carries around her own condoms, or keeps a jar/box of condoms next to her bed/in the nightstand, has condoms in her purse, etc... she gets around.

If she has an instagram page with pictures of her ass hanging out, she gets around.

[–]BewareTheOldMan3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The flip side to the enthusiastic woman is the woman who's had so many sexual partners it's almost as she's suffering from burnout.

I’ve heard stories whereby a man will meet a woman and the situation escalates to sex very quickly, but instead of an enthusiastic and enjoyable experience the male will later describe some form of rote behavior; as if the woman had performed the act numerous times and with so many men that the episode was lackluster and disappointing. During the encounter, the woman demonstrated little emotional connection or interpersonal interaction – essentially the lifeless sex doll scenario.

[–]confusednsqueeky10 points11 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Beautifully written!

[–][deleted] 22 points23 points  (29 children) | Copy Link

I think the tat's being a 'slut tell' are way off. I'm sure there's lots of slutty women with tats (maybe a higher rate), but I know lots of girls with tats who are in committed, long-term, monogamous relationships.

The lying is also irrelevant. I went out with a girl when I was 28, she was 24 and she was a virgin (can confirm). She lied ALL the time. I think she's about 36 now, married, and as far as I can tell has a count well under single digits (4 or 5).

I know 'slutty' girls who were honest.

Bottom line is some women don't want relationships; they want attention. Other want relationships, and maybe a few don't work out early on, but they aren't going to put up with some asshole's shit just because it means they'll eventually have to add another guy to their count.

I stay away from liars. In the past I do haven't minded having with with women who were open about their sexuality and spread it around, but I didn't invest much in them emotionally because I knew that I wouldn't be around long, not because I would want to be, but because they would want to move on.

The way people choose to express themselves says a lot. A low-cut top and a push up bra with excessive perfume and make-up says "I want attention." A tat doesn't always say that. A liar can be a prude as easily as she can be 'slutty' (though the latter may be more likely).

Everything has to be put in context.

[–]Rivkariver2 Star7 points8 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Here's the practical advice takeaway from the tattoo thing. No one is obligated to date a girl with tattoos. Let's say a dude happens to want a LTR and he likes a girl who's acting really classy and loyal but he finds out she has a tat. Does he have to ditch her? Not necessarily. Where is the tat, what is it, and why.

Is it some cheesy live laugh love or similar phrase, or a cliche heart or lotus or a tramp stamp? Is it a pinup girl on her arm? Is it on her neck or face?

What about if it's a memorial of her brother's death? What if it's a religious tattoo in a discreet place you'll never see if her clothes are on? Location says a lot about her long term thinking. If she impulsively got a neck tattoo of a cartoon she's bad at decisions. If she got a serious meaningful tattoo hidden under clothes she's better at long term thinking.

Is it simple and tasteful or trashy and poorly executed?

Does she plan to get more? Where was she in life when she got it?

I don't encourage tattoos but you don't have to assume tramp as a guy if you like a girl with them.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thinking back, I haven't dated many girls with tats, but I don't have any myself, and I assume that's one of those 'like attract likes' things.

I personally love tats, just never had anything I wanted, and girls with tats generally don't show an interest in me (except for some of the tramp stamp ladies).

[–]TheBunk_TB1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I have two that I have been told make me look like a psychopath or a gang member. You cant be surprised when you get a label.

[–]MetalDevils 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Thanks for the response!

I think the tat's being a 'slut tell' are way off. I'm sure there's lots of slutty women with tats (maybe a higher rate), but I know lots of girls with tats who are in committed, long-term, monogamous relationships.

I think the tattoo issue is a far more complex one than people think. First, there are different types of tattoos, and different places to have a tattoo added. I think the 'tramp stamp' is a fairly common and generally pretty fair summation. Along those lines, anyone that gets a tattoo on their face or neck, is sending some very clear signals. Then you have to consider typical and generic topics. Some kind of tropical flower, or a cliche word like "Believe" in a frilly font doesn't exactly say much about the individual's sense of originality. I think the actual quality of the tattoo is important as well. Not all tats are created equal. Sometimes they can honestly look like they should be temporary sticker tattoos.

At the same time, it is important to be aware of culture, which sounds like typical fru-fru feminist bullshit, but there are many cultures that utilize tattoos and piercings as a right of passage, and general sign of maturity. I don't think cultural body alterations should be put on the same level as a flying bird silhouette.

I know 'slutty' girls who were honest.

This is a great point. Some people are really good liars, and they have few if any scruples. Some people are honest, even if they should keep some things to themselves. You can find every variation imaginable, and many people subscribe to the "omission is not a lie" and "white lies are fine" mindsets as well.

Bottom line is some women don't want relationships; they want attention.

Absolutely! This ties into a personal criticism I have in regards to the whole 'plate' idea. Men will talk about spinning plates, but I don't think it's stated enough that every female plate will have many other male plates. The truth is that when it comes to hooking up and friend's with benefits, everyone is using everyone else. When it comes to hooking up, women have a far easier time getting sex and attention than men.

The way people choose to express themselves says a lot. A low-cut top and a push up bra with excessive perfume and make-up says "I want attention." A tat doesn't always say that. A liar can be a prude as easily as she can be 'slutty' (though the latter may be more likely).

Yep I agree. Behaviors, traits, and appearance all have to be taken together and evaluated as a whole. It's easy to hone in on one small aspect, and settle on a completely inaccurate conclusion as a result.

For better or worse, women really don't have a hard time switching from 'ho' to 'housewife' when they decide it's time to settle down. I know a lot of people are adamant that it's easy to avoid wifing a former whore....but that doesn't stack given all the ample warnings of "you can never know a woman's N count for sure" and "watch behavior, ignore words."

To be fair I think players and male whores can also make the switch from messing around with everyone to settling down with one woman once he decides that's what he wants.

[–]Rivkariver2 Star2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The last paragraph about not being able to make a ho/player into a family person: I think the warning is saying that you can't change somebody in that way. If they had already made the decision themselves to change it's different.

[–]lilaclemons2 points3 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

think the actual quality of the tattoo is important as well. Not all tats are created equal.

So so imporant. Even the tattoo community can agree on this.

I spend a lot of time crafting my ink and canvas. My tattoos are all intended to be more feminine. I love getting compliments where people insist that mine is better than most tattoos, it's "classy and elegant" are words I often get thankfully. My tattoos are mostly botanical, many others with meaning.

But placement, colour, size, artist quality. It all matters at the end of the day. Many girls I went to highschool with have far more ink thank I do, but their is trashy or even if it isn't, it doesn't flow well;, it doesn't curve with their body, the colours are too harsh on their skin. One girl has an octopus with a tentacle going in between her boobs.

Those girls in comparison to myself and my best friend? Well the difference is pretty immediate.

There are people who think of being covered in tattoos, and then there are people who think of being covered in art. That makes a difference.

Culture is important too. Thankfully where I live it's very common to be inked, even heavily - but if I went back to my hometown? I'd stick out like a sore thumb. Or the simple realization that I'll never be able to go to a public Japanese bathhouse because of them. Different places has different rules. Can't get tattoos and expect everyone to like them or understand them.

[–]MetalDevils 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Yes! I always love when there's a documentary or ink show that talks about the thought process that goes into figuring out orientation, size, and placement of a tattoo. All of which are just as important as the actual image.

Yes, in Japan tattoos are always a sign of gang involvement, and businesses just avoid the issue all together by banning those with tattoos.

Japanese culture is really fascinating. They also have 'weeping boys.' They are men that are hired by businesses or individual women. The men sit with the women, play music or a video that is meant to encourage emotional vulnerability. Crying and extreme emotional displays are not really considered normal, and the needs of the group or society are always placed above the desires of the individual. This is why the trains are always quiet, everywhere is so clean, and people don't eat on public transit. School children are also responsible for cleaning the classrooms and grounds. They are taught from an early age that they must take an active role in maintaining and caring for their environment.

There are also specialty cafes that offer a girlfriend experience to working men. They come to the cafe or restaurant and a waitress basically acts like a friendly female companion. Not by sitting on the customer's lap, but by drinking with them, preparing their food and presenting it with a 'love spell' sometimes. They keep the men company and concentrate on everything the man has to say. They are there to give the men a sense of importance and show that they care.

These type of services, of which there are also holographic AI programs that can text, talk to, and sing for men; are becoming increasingly popular. It comes as no surprise that Japan's birthrate has plummeted so low, that they will not have a sustainable population in the very near future. There are government programs to encourage couples to have children. Young people are just opting out of dating all together.

Additionally, personal and familial honor are very deep rooted concepts. There is a suicide forest, and also nameless shanty towns....people that feel they have dishonored themselves or their family will give up their life to life as homeless drifters. Some go to a suicide forest. There's a movie that talks about the culture around suicide in Japan, it's a suspense thriller aptly named 'The Forest.'

[–]lilaclemons2 points3 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

I love Japan and all I can learn from it. It's such a unique and diverse culture it's been #1 on my travel list since I was really young.

[–]MetalDevils 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

I can recommend a few youtube channels if you would like to learn more about culture. :)

[–]lilaclemons1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Sure! I already follow a slew of expats living there but I can never get enough subs!

[–]MetalDevils 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

https://www.youtube.com/user/JunsKitchen/videos Jun's Kitchen

There's also a channel he runs with his wife, called Rachel and Jun, and another about their adventures.

Watch a few of their videos, and youtube will suggest other channels that are similar. :)

You should also go to /r/Fatpeoplestories and look into the "Chibiham" series. The artist created lots of comics, and reading all the entries, you will hear a lot about local Japanese culture.

[–]lilaclemons1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Already excited just from the sub it's in haha

I already follow Jun! Love her. She reminds me of my downstairs neighbour - a couple who own a ramen shop. The wife grew up in Japan in her dad's ramen shop, her husband was a culinary major here (Canada) and travel to Japan for real ramen. They met at her shop, he said he fell for her right away, kepy going back to her shop. Eventually she travelled to Germany, where he was. They met up and got ramen. Fell in love, then travelled the world tasting ramen until they decided to move back to Canada and they brought along the noodle machine from her dad's shop (her brother runs it now, got a new machine) and they brought it to Canada where they've started their family and have the shop. Like the cutest romance story imo. She's always telling me about Japan when I'm in the shop and I cannot wait to visit, she even told me her brother may offer to house my BF&I which would be such an experiance on it's own.

[–][deleted]  (2 children) | Copy Link

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[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Great post.

It's true... people can change... or what is more often the case, some people take a long time to find out who they are and what they want, and once they do, choices about relationships become a lot easier.

[–]Strongproudwoman2 points3 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Why do people get tattoos?

[–][deleted]  (4 children) | Copy Link

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[–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor6 points7 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I can tell you that I've got one at my husband's request. He finds it sexy any I figured if he could do something permanent like marrying me, I could do the same by getting the tattoo for him.

[–][deleted]  (2 children) | Copy Link

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[–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Yes, I believe I told him early on that when he put a ring on my finger, I'd put ink on my body. Then I kicked myself down the road when I had to follow through on my promise :-P . In all seriousness though, it was something he liked, that communicated that I was in this forever more than pretty much anything else could.

[–]est-la-lune2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I have a friend with several. They have special meaning to her, such as family or God.

[–]lilaclemons2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thank you. I'm heavily inked but have a very low n-count and am in a happy monogamous relationship. Plus I'm very feminine, which I think is important in balancing out large tattoos.

I think the kind of tattoos, however, can tell a lot about a person. Some girls I know are just as heavily inked, but based on the tattoos (octopus with a tentacle going up between her boobs) for example, makes it very obvious that girl is different than one like myself.

That being said, any girl with tattoos who wants a RP man, knows she must balance herself out well in all other categories as well because tattoos do carry that stigma still.

[–]StrongAffordance3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I think you may have missed the point. This post isn’t saying “if she has a tattoo then she is a slut”. It’s saying that there are signs, when taken together can give you hints. The more signs the narrower the confidence interval.

To advance the dialogue we have to make generalizations. Generalizations are by definition not true for all cases, but rather serve as a heuristic.

It’s like how we say humans have 4 limbs. But not all humans have 4 limbs.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Good point.

[–]WhatIsThisAccountFor3 Star0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

There is a difference between women with tattoos and women with large, visible tattoos.

I’d say around 50% of all girls in my dating age range (21-25) these days have at least one tattoo, but most of them have a very small one on their foot or neck (where their hair hides is) or ribs etc.

There is a very vast different between a girl with a tattoo that takes up her entire thigh and a girl with a couple Chinese characters on her wrist. The girl with the thigh tattoo will usually be slutty, the girl with the wrist tattoo is usually a normal girl that wants to feel “dangerous”.

[–]TheBunk_TB0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I know 'slutty' girls who were honest.

Generally speaking, they rank up with unicorns and North Korean golf scores.

[–]Ezaar3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

The comment on change is very thought provoking and well considered.

[–]est-la-lune3 points4 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

Men on TRP emphasize cheating because they believe that LTRs should be 'promoted' from a cabinet of plates. This strategy ensures the relationship will always be a power struggle between a man who does not trust or respect his LTR, and a woman who is driven by fear to maintain her status in the relationship.

'Slut tells' are sometimes accurate and sometimes lose the nuance of human complexity. A far superior strategy is simply not to LTR any woman who is willing to sleep with you before making the relationship 'official' and instead focus on vetting for characteristics that are important to a relationship - of which 'not a cheater' is only one, and the most basic one at that.

The man in this scenario is free to hook up with whomever else he chooses until he determines a potential LTR is worth his commitment and vice versa. The woman in this scenario doesn't have to sleep with a man (falsely) thinking it will prove her worth to him but instead demonstrates a degree of self-control that can excuse some red flags. If her other red flags (and everyone has them) are too great, then neither of them lose anything in this process.

I think this scenario is pretty basic to us, but if there are any men reading it, perhaps it may be helpful.

[–]BewareTheOldMan7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Men on TRP emphasize cheating because they believe that LTRs should be 'promoted' from a cabinet of plates.

That's not the takeaway I get from their message traffic/philosophy. I doubt any TRP Man seeks to promote a "Plate" to LTR, although there's the occasional exception. These boys don’t believe in "unicorns."

These men are responding to the sexual marketplace as is...i.e. many/most/an overwhelming majority of women are having cheap, free, easy, uninhibited, and "liberated sex" with Chad/Chad-like/Bad Boy Males. They posit these same women seek Beta Male Providers after a woman’s Party Years. They adjusted their strategy to take advantage of current dynamics.

The game changed. Instead of complaining they switched tactics – that’s all. It resembles complaining and terrible behavior, but TRP Men are not responsible for female nature…only the manner in which they respond to said behavior.

They have no inclination either to change women or the sexual marketplace. Their response is to adjust strategy based on female behavior. In short, to take advantage – nothing more. No investments, no effort, and zero commitment. The same as many women do while young, pretty, and fertile during their prime years.

TRP Men advise other men to work tirelessly to avoid becoming the Beta Male Provider AFTER everyone else invested little to no commitment.

Anyway - that's my takeaway.

[–]mrpthrowa3 points4 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

What's also very important to a man, equally as important as vetting the woman, is that the woman finds him the best she ever had, and that she's willing to drop her pants for him as fast and furious as she did with other men before him.

This is extremely important. A man can tolerate a chick's past so long as she does more or better for him. If he discovers that she made him wait but not another man, or engaged in certain acts with another man but not him, the relationship will never be able to recover. The girl, however hard she tries, will never ever sustain the relationship long term and she will want the alpha thrill at some point.

The reality is that while we can watch all the tell tale signs, in this culture one can never tell whether a woman dropped her pants first, such that the only sane and safe thing to believe is she, in fact, did have at least a ONS.

It follows that if a chick did not drop her pants to you in the first or second date, she's not attracted enough and you should move on.

This is why TRP men prefer the drop pants first, vet later approach. Yes, this disadvantages the woman, and the man has to be well worth it and not a "player".

You can blame third wave "you go girl" positive sexuality feminism for this.

In a traditional culture where you can at least rest assured to a reasonable degree that girls don't sleep around willy nilly, then suddenly discover god, or the wall, or whatever, and decide to act prude.. in such an environment high quality men might be willing to wait.

[–]est-la-lune0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

My original comment glossed over these issues, but I'm glad you brought them up because they're relevant.

The sooner a woman jumps off the CC and the more she changes after doing so, the better she'll fare afterwards. Remember that many women who ride the CC do so because they lack the characteristics and skills that make good long-term partners. If men recognize she has something to offer long-term, then theoretically she has no reason to go back.

Will she face resistance? Absolutely. There are a good number of men who will not date or marry this kind of woman. There are also a lot of men who would. I think the RP community can get a little obsessed with the distinction between alpha and beta but forget there are bad alphas and good betas. Women who truly desire long-term commitment are looking for what RPW calls a "greater beta" anyways. These men don't usually represent the top 20% and they're not the kind of guys that women chase for purely sexual reasons.

[–]mrssmithhh1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Am I the only one that is a little confused about the Alpha/Beta thing? I keep thinking that Donald Trump is hella Alpha, and he is also a fantastic provider (or at least I assume so, without actually having seen his bank statements). Isn't the appeal of Alpha qualities the instinctual, animalistic messaging that Man is able to beget healthy spawn and also protect and provide for said spawn? I mean, it makes sense that in our Caveman days, the tallest, storngest, most brawny and in-command dude would be the only one who could bring home the bacon and also keep Woman and Babies safe from the Mastadon down the street.

The way the Beta is described here, I would think that a Beta is a guy who is so pathetic, ridiculous, and unable to provide for himself that to lock onto him would not only be detrimental to the woman but also to the man. Maybe I really just don't get it. It just seems like Beta SHOULD be a really valuable, useful thing - a man who can actually get resources is really useful and needed! But TRP talks about a Beta like he is the sludge of humanity. If that's the case, I don't even know why women go for Beta's once their pretty years are over. They should just stick to the State and keep partying on.

[–]est-la-lune1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

On TRP, RP theory is presented using black-and-white terms and examples. Why? Anger is a great way to motivate people to change. By removing the nuance from people's behavior (a great example is AWALT), TRP encourages men to take action.

In the real world, people operate on a spectrum. Stereotypes can serve as a tool, and are exceptionally useful in groups for marketing and teaching where your relationships with individuals are impersonal, but when you form individual relationships (such as vetting partners for a LTR) they stop being useful.

Alpha/beta is a great system for describing desirable personality traits in various contexts, but IRL I think it's more appropriate for couples to have similar levels of "dominance" (blend of alpha/beta traits) and for the man to have a slightly higher SMV. In other words, alpha ≠ high SMV, because traits associated with high SMV (wealth) can be connected to beta traits (provision), leading a woman to desire a more beta man even though TRP claims she'd prefer to have sex with alpha men.

[–]WhatIsThisAccountFor3 Star0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

If that's the case, I don't even know why women go for Beta's once their pretty years are over. They should just stick to the State and keep partying on.

Because women desire relationships, and alphas generally do not give relationships to women that are not top tier in terms of SMV.

Women eventually have to settle to get a relationship if they take this approach most of the time.

[–]mwait[🍰] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

not to LTR any woman who is willing to sleep with you before making the relationship 'official'

The woman in this scenario doesn't have to sleep with a man (falsely) thinking it will prove her worth to him but instead demonstrates a degree of self-control that can excuse some red flags. If her other red flags (and everyone has them) are too great, then neither of them lose anything in this process

This reeks of epiphany-phase BS to me(not you, but the hypothetical woman in your comment). As if she finally realizes that her SMV is in decline, so she starts to dial back her sexuality in an effort to promote a better image of herself... An image that lacks continuity with her past.

But I will say this. If I met a woman who would not sleep with me until commitment was made, the ONLY instance where I might consider going along with that is if she had been following this rule since she became sexually active. As soon as I find out she slept with a handful of guys in college without demanding commitment first, I am out. That is some have-my-cake-and-eat-it-too bullshit.

[–]BewareTheOldMan1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I see your point regarding the exception related to the Epiphany Phase, but I advise other men the only women who get the "exception to the rule" treatment should be young, pretty (to their preference), fertile, and in her very early 20's.

She likely has a low N-Count, although it's not guaranteed. She's still tracking her best years and not trending toward a precipitous decline in SMV, assuming she's very health-conscious and physically fit.

...just my perspective.

[–]est-la-lune0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I completely understand! For a woman who has never demanded commitment before sex she's going to face a lot of men who feel the same way. However... as a woman, I still encourage others on the CC to have an 'epiphany phase' and not go back to easy sex. Commitment to change is the only way to break the cycle, and some women will change more easily than others.

[–]Kiddingyoself 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

I would assume there will be a greater emphasis on N count going forward. Many men have bought into the idea there are no differences between men and women, and haven't considered the consequences (or even that there might be any) to partnering with a "slut". However, word is spreading. If someone wants a family, they need to watch out for those who are fast & loose with their sexuality. I could see a time when guys determine that they should limit, or abstain from, their flings, and only seriously consider marrying a virgin, which up until lately has been seen as only something fanatically religious people focus on for whatever reason.

[–]LaceandsilksModerator | Lace[M] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Hello /u/Kiddingyoself your comment has been removed.

Please read this thread

You need to stop commenting on this sub until you participate on some of the other subs.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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