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FIELD REPORTIt’s crazy how much SMV really does matter. (self.RedPillWomen)

submitted by Ruinedgirl22

We all know that it matters a lot for us women (a high SMV man is most likely to commit to a high SMV woman) but looking back at the two big relationships in my (young) life, I realized just how much it matters for both genders.

Guy 1: Low SMV. Zero ability to dread. Pure husband material, though. Responsible, intelligent, cautious, sensitive. Put me above himself 100% of the time. Only had “small” flaws such as being an over-thinker and laughing a little too loud. Despite all of this, I fell out of love with him easily and can say that I’m 100% over him.

Guy 2: High SMV. High dread ability. Not husband material at all. Immature as all hell, careless/daredevil, self-absorbed. Had HUGE flaws, to the point where he needed intensive therapy. Yet, I stayed in love throughout everything and still don’t know if I’m fully over him.

I’ve seen this with sooo many other people, women AND men. Guy 1 was far superior to Guy 2 in every other way but sexual attractiveness. This is a big part of what led me to the red pill.


[–]raeonmon22 points23 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

If ideal personality traits were all that was needed for a romantic partner, we would not have the issue of guys being "friend-zoned". Attraction is innate. While women can sometimes see attraction grow with time, if there's none initially, it will not work out.

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

It sounds to me like you have a penchant for damaged men.

"Immature as all hell, careless/daredevil, self-absorbed. Had HUGE flaws, to the point where he needed intensive therapy. Yet, I stayed in love throughout everything and still don’t know if I’m fully over him"

You can't say that there are no good looking, charismatic men around who are responsible, hard working and mature. You are seeing things in very black and white terms. Men are not either socially awkward, nice guy nerds or jerk boy jocks. This isn't a high school movie and you need to come back to reality.

You need to explore the reasons why you can't find yourself a man that is both attractive to you and brings you a healthy relationship. Do you perhaps have your own dysfunctions that would get in the way of attracting such a man? Are you codependent? Do you crave drama and effect? I think you need to take a good look at yourself.

​

[–]Ruinedgirl22 1 points [recovered]  (2 children) | Copy Link

I wasn’t stereotyping the men; I was explaining exactly how I know that SMV matters (at least to me). I was saying that Guy 2 had nothing BUT sexual attractiveness and he’s the one I loved more.

[–]vodoun9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Guy 2 had nothing BUT sexual attractiveness

nothing about guy 2 sounds sexy or attractive tho

"immature, self absorbed, needs therapy" wtf? these are all huge negatives, and you haven't mentioned anything positive that would cancel these out

I agree with u/cynicalhousewife, it sounds like you don't value yourself enough to go for stable, successful men

[–]Flockofpuppies37 points38 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

SMV is highly overrated here. Being Alpha Widowed is not a lesson about how SMV matters, it's lesson in reevaluating your priorities.

Some day you will meet a man with a similar level of attractiveness that you enjoy looking at, but what really sends you over the edge is him changing your car tire, his passion about his dreams, and him playing with his nieces and nephews. What you appreciate at 19 isn't what you appreciate at 30.

[–]ventuspilot17 points18 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

In other words: AF/BB

[–]Flockofpuppies7 points8 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

Nope, it's about how so much of a woman's attraction is mental, and how acting like a MAN is attractive, no matter what the man looks like.

When you're 19, you think acting like a MAN means riding a shiny motorcycle and being a loudmouth.

When you're older, you see manliness in different ways, like him quietly helping someone in need without asking for praise. Standing up for his value system.

[–]BewareTheOldMan7 points8 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

...tracking all it relates to your comment...but the million dollar question is WHY is that many women have this "revelation" of what a Good Man is at age 30 versus what a Good Man is at age 19?

Best Practice: Select and only deal with men who are great husband-father archetypes ONLY and for which you have genuine attraction and interest versus the knuckle-draggers and basic jerks who have ZERO husband-father potential.

In short - establish standards for dealing with ONLY Good Men at age 15 and maintain those same standards throughout your life and in EVERY relationship.

Otherwise you get AF/BB...as per u/ventuspilot has referenced and often-mentioned over at TRP.

Smart men will not offer commitment, much less marry a woman who gets an "epiphany moment" after entertaining dirtbags and Neanderthals well into their late 20s/early 30s or longer.

"When you're 19, you think acting like a MAN means riding a shiny motorcycle and being a loudmouth."

PRO TIP: This works for certain men - the vast majority can't slide with that behavior.

[–]Flockofpuppies0 points1 point  (8 children) | Copy Link

In real life, I see a lot of the alpha widowed ladies have daddy issues. They didn't grow up with an example of real manliness, and were more easily fooled by counterfeits.

[–]BewareTheOldMan1 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

I hear you on this...the "daddy issues" thing, but the trend for most men I speak with is NOT to engage these women on a serious basis.

The prevailing belief is that if a woman (or man for that matter) has a bad childhood, they should spend the earliest part of their adult life (in their 20s) resolving those issues to ensure positive interaction in future romantic relationships and other principal areas of adult life.

Real Talk - men have about an 18-month window (after age 18) where they can blame life-decisions on their childhood. After that - other men hold them accountable for any decisions that affect life-outcomes.

There's a trend to hold women to the same standard.

Just saying...

[–]ArcticFoxBunny0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

Serious question...if a woman from an abusive home spent her 20s recovering and didn’t marry, maybe had a boyfriend or two but it ended....and had to resolve all the trauma and is now in her 30s...won’t you guys just assume the same thing about how she must have rode the CC and should have found a man while she was still very young...?

[–]Tek_Analyst-1 points0 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Yes for the most part we would. But I think an experienced man can smell the genuineness in a girl, or the desperation in her.

[–]ArcticFoxBunny0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

So your advice kind of shoots her in the foot then unless the man is very...wise? Is the philosophy basically that woman from hard childhood basically are screwed and shouldn’t have a man?

[–]Tek_Analyst0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

I wasn’t giving advice, I was answering a question. Don’t be such a victim.

If you read my statement, I’m actually saying a wise man will see if she’s genuine. Not saying she’s limited to a wise man. She has her choices. Not all men think in a RP way.

Much like men, women struggle that don’t grow up with strong fathers and a Nuclear home/family.

[–]BewareTheOldMan-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This - exactly.

Most men will assume a woman in her 30s spent quite a bit of time having casual sex...because it's standard behavior in most other women.

The exception would be a woman who is judged and properly vetted based on her behavior, forthrightness, and sincerity in overall presentation of herself as a legitimate prospect as a future mate/wife.

Of course there are also other requirements...

In short - a woman's and behavior family relationships reveals all.

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

My fiance probably has the lowest SMV of my previous partners but I love him in a way I've never felt before and we have an awesome sex life. I think part of it though is that he is the only guy I have ever dated who made me feel small. I am almost as tall as the average US guy but my fiance is eight inches taller. He also has a good handle on expressing dominant personality traits with me. I respect his ability to lead, which I can't say for any of the other guys I dated in my life. I think at the end of the day that last piece is probably what fuels the attraction above all for me. I am ridiculously head over heels for him almost three years into things. Another thing, he can't dread me based on looks but he can dread the hell out of me without trying simply by existing in the circles he is in and I have seen other women flirt with him in front of me. So, obviously he isn't tragic looking but it is his RMV that humbles me most in the relationship because he outshines me there a good bit.

[–]Ramp_Up_Then_Dump15 points16 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Are you sure he is low smv? Men's chracter matters a lot. If other girls hit on him, he must be good.

[–]Ruinedgirl22 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

Yeah. Especially if you’re close to the height of an average US man (like 5’10) and he’s 8 inches taller (6’6). That’s a tall man!

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I am 5'9". He didn't have much luck with girls in college aside from a few blow jobs so he thinks he is pretty unattractive...he was in a fraternity and said he was the only one who was still a virgin at the end of college. He said that at the end of his senior year three girls told him they had wanted to sleep with him but they thought he wasn't interested because he didn't make a move. He said he had his head buried so deep in math books he was oblivious. However, he said now that he is further into his career he found that more attractive women more aggressively pursue him which made him highly skeptical about the whole dating scene. I think if he lost weight he would probably be a solid 7 or 8 because of the height plus blue eyes, broad shoulders, and great smile. My friends say they wish they could find a guy like him but I think a big part of that is that he is charming, successful and treats me really, really well. I can't lie though, it definitely boosts attraction everytime a woman in my life tells me how lucky I am to have found such a great guy.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I will say that I let him kiss me on the second date and had sex with him on the third date. I was dating my last partner for seven months before we had sex but for some reason I just really, really wanted to have sex with my now fiance early on...it legitimately confused me but I just went with it. It was way before discovering RPW and I almost got alpha widowed at one point early on due to some bad shit testing, but fortunately it worked out okay for me. He's not afraid to set boundaries and that excites me. He says I was pretty enough and interesting enough that he probably would have kept dating me for months even if I didn't put out but we will never actually know...

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

My fiance probably has the lowest SMV of my previous partners

Would it be fair to say, despite this, you are more attracted to him than other, higher SMV men, as an overall package?

[–]sonder_one1 Star2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

You're probably conflating physical appearance and SMV.

The two are highly linked in women, less linked in men. Men's SMV peaks in their 30s, and if your current man is only less physically attractive than previous ones because of age, then he's probably still higher SMV.

You basically admitted this by saying that he has the ability to lead, while the others didn't. That's a huge part of male SMV.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I was under the impression that SMV refers to appearance and everything else like education, character, and income falls under RMV. Although, I agree that the non-physical traits significantly influence attraction. For me specifically, the non-physical stuff outweighs the physical. A guy with a six pack but an uninspiring character is not going to make me horny for him.

My fiance once admitted it took him a week to work up the courage to message me on the dating website because based on looks he assumed I would not even bother responding. I told him part of his bad luck with online dating was his disastrous choice of profile pictures, not because he is fundamentally unattractive. He is actually three years younger than me and the only guy I have ever dated who was younger than me. He looks significantly older though because he is greying quite a bit and getting that middle aged hairline thing going on...people typically assume he closer to 40 despite not being 30 yet. It has benefited him though career wise to have it assumed he is older and I love that he looks significantly older than me...sometimes I think that his belief that he is unattractive is a bigger issue than how he actually looks. It has improved a lot since we have been together though because I praise the aspects of his appearance that are great and am very sexually available to him. I will even giggle and point out when another woman has flirted with him, which I think boosts his self confidence in this department too.

I know his prime is just now beginning and it keeps me on my toes. He has also gotten multiple promotions and raises since we got together a few years ago and now got a job working for a company that carries a lot of status in the area we live in...he told me though that even if women hotter than me suddenly want him because he is older and has more money and status, he wouldn't want to replace me with them because I wanted him when he had less. He is willing to financially invest to help keep me looking younger as long as possible and I have tweaked the few things he didn't find to be his personal ideal in terms of my appearance, but I also try to keep my girl game strong in other areas. He would not have committed to me if the only thing he liked about me was my appearance (although I am sure he would have plated me for a while).

[–]sonder_one1 Star0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

SMV and RMV are different, but they are not simply synonyms for "looks" and "character", respectively.

SMV is a composition of all of the things that influence the opposite sex's desire to have sex with you, and RMV is a composition of all of the things that influence the opposite sex's desire to have a relationship with you.

Education and income tend to influence RMV but not SMV, but "charisma," body language, and the like absolutely impact SMV. And as always, women's SMV is more based on visuals while men's is based more on behavior.

But don't conflate behavior with income or education. People with a lot of income and education can still be whiny, geeky, awkward, and generally low in sex appeal.

[–]vodoun0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I gotta agree with that. Barring any extremes (morbid obesity or something crazy) physical appearance is much less important for a man to have than personality and leadership abilities

I can work on his appearance if I really hate something about it, I can't teach him how to be a man

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

You can find high SMV with more pleasing traits. I grew up around private school princelings and was grossed out by them right off the bat. Still dated them because that's what was around me, and that's what women are told to want. I was done after 2 and completely ready for college, career and cats. One of the professors at my college (I was friends with his wife in a charity outside school) introduced me to someone who on paper was perfection, so I went with it because the recommend. Nope, turned out adding a few years just makes them better at hiding their self absorption and grossly entitled attitude. You ever been yelled at driving 100 mph swerving through traffic down PCH in a sick car because you didn't hear something King Shit said? I have. The funny thing about that one is the profs wife wasn't in on it, when she heard I got the "Don't waste your life girl, run!" speech which I'd already done. At that point I associated hotness and ambition with trouble and stayed focused on work and school. So much so that I used my lunch break to do homework and sleep in my car often. One day trouble knocked on my car window and asked me if I ever actually eat for lunch. It was an exceptionally slow process even getting to know him as a person let alone actually date but it all worked out very well. Allowing unhinged and narcissism to kill tingles is a good thing, it's a self preservation method in fact. Let it happen, put yourself out there and meet new people.

​

Edit: my daughter has heard this cautionary tale and she thinks if I'm going to tell it then I should tell it all for context. Guy had a client that was a famous and now deceased animator. He had to go to his house to pick up documents for an art scholarship from him. I was super enthused about this. Get there, he's great, his wife gets everyone lemonade while he's showing me awards in a case and telling random stories. All 4 of us sit down and client asks if I'm wearing panties. Just like commenting on the weather. It didn't process, I said "what?" and he repeated it. In front of everyone. I looked to the wife, I looked to Mr high SMV, everyone was sitting there like "teehee what a delightful sense of humor he has!" I got up and went back to the case without answering, he finished his business and we left. Being in shock over how all that went down, I didn't hear what he said to me and he flipped out and started driving Grand Theft Auto style. I don't even remember what he said, I just remember being terrified and hyperventilating. This was a sudden thing after being technically together for 3 months. So yeah SMV is a thing, tingles are a thing, but there's a reason some high SMV men end up with gold diggers who recognize the best thing that kind of man has to offer.

[–]Dominemm4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

With you. Anyone above a conventional 8, I don't have time for. I don't need the ego. And I don't trust myself to make good decisions cause I'm too caught up in how hot the guy looks.

Frankly the confidence is my key. As long as the guy isn't overweight (and even then I'm a bit flexible if it's a fullback/lineback kind of build) I'm literally fine, if the guy is sure of himself.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Amen. Confidence, a sense of humor, and an even temper are the holy trinity in my book. I definitely didn't trust myself so I completely shut down, but that's self defeating.

[–]always_sad12 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

Are you serious? Guy number one was low SMV because he laughed too loud?

[–]pearlsandstilettosModerator | Pearl[M] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

That you cannot negotiate attraction is a core tenet of TRP/RPW.

[–]loneliness-inc4 points5 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

This is one of the main reasons TRP exists altogether. Because so many women are ambivalent or outright turned off by nice, responsible men while being emotionally and sexually attached to reckless, immature bad boys.

I’ve seen this with sooo many other people, women AND men. Guy 1 was far superior to Guy 2 in every other way but sexual attractiveness. This is a big part of what led me to the red pill.

The genders are very far from equal on this matter. Let's not pretend that this is gender neutral.

[–]merel--3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

But ... This whole sub is dedicated to finding a nice responsible man who is a good leader tho.

[–]vodoun 1 points [recovered]  (7 children) | Copy Link

Because so many women are ambivalent or outright turned off by nice, responsible men while being emotionally and sexually attached to reckless, immature bad boys.

huh? maybe in our teen years, but a good amount of us grow out of that phase

and for the ones that don't - if you're a nice responsible guy, why would you even be trying to lock down a woman who's clearly not like you? that's never going to be long term

[–]loneliness-inc1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

huh? maybe in our teen years, but a good amount of us grow out of that phase

Yet another reason for the existence of TRP! Because men (eventually) realize that he wasn't good enough for her in her super horny teenage years. But now that she fucked the whole football team, she wants him to settle down with her sloppy seconds.

If I wasn't good enough for you when you were young, tight and hot, you aren't good enough for me when I'm established and settled.

Sure, you grow out of that phase, but that just means you can only find such a man attractive when you're desperate and/or when your sex drive takes a nose dive and/or when your SMV plummets. That is highly offensive to these very men who you suddenly find attractive and a huge turnoff. That's why women in this stage have a very hard time finding a good man to settle down with.

Harsh, but true.

[–]vodoun 1 points [recovered]  (4 children) | Copy Link

If I wasn't good enough for you when you were young, tight and hot, you aren't good enough for me when I'm established and settled.

that just sounds bitter and immature. there are definitely women who start to find "good guys" attractive because they're desperate and old, but there are also just as many women who have simply grown up and realized what they want from life

this goes for both sexes you know. there are tons of women who were plain looking dorks that were ignored by guys in highschool

I had a rough childhood which led to tons of self esteem issues and tried to compensate for lack of parental affection the wrong way. I used men for their money and the things they could do for me, and treated them as disposable. I didn't stop being a bitch because I got older and feel like I have to settle down now, I stopped because my mental health improved with time and I was able to finally objectively analyse myself

holding onto things that happened to you when you were younger is only going to impede your movement in life

[–]loneliness-inc1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

especially if you subscribe to the idea that attraction is driven by biological needs

Men are biologically attracted to youth, fertility and beauty. Men are attracted to virginity and the further a woman is from virginity, the less attractive she is to men. That too is biological.

The reasons for your maturation slightly increase your RMV, but to the biological male imperative, you aren't a virgin nor will you ever be one again. You aren't a teenager nor will you ever be one again. You have a certain amount of baggage and that's just part of who you are.

If you're doing the best you can to live a mature and responsible life, that's wonderful and your life will be better as a result, but it won't change what men are sexually attracted to.

You seem to be thinking solely about what's attractive to women. You seem to be forgetting what men are attracted to and what men are repulsed by. My comment was explaining that.

that just sounds bitter and immature,

Underhanded and unnecessary. This isn't about me personally. This is the truth. I spoke words of truth. As for me, I did marry a young hot virgin and I wouldn't have had it any other way.

[–]vodoun 1 points [recovered]  (2 children) | Copy Link

Men are attracted to virginity and the further a woman is from virginity, the less attractive she is to men. That too is biological.

in what way would that make sense?? biologically men are driven to spread their seed and women are driven to find a carer for themselves and their offspring. virginity has basically nothing to do with this, nor was it something I brought up...???

but it won't change what men are sexually attracted to

but to the biological male imperative, you aren't a virgin nor will you ever be one again.

what?? who said anything about this?? what are you talking about??

As for me, I did marry a young hot virgin and I wouldn't have had it any other way.

congrats but by the overly bitter tone of your posts it sounds like things aren't going the way you hoped

[–]loneliness-inc1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

in what way would that make sense?? biologically men are driven to spread their seed and women are driven to find a carer for themselves and their offspring. virginity has basically nothing to do with this, nor was it something I brought up...???

Virginity means a woman is unused, new, fresh, clean, etc. Baggage is a turnoff, that's part of why a high N-count is a turnoff.

Yes, men have the biological imperative to spread their seed. However, 1) certain things are a turnoff and those women are out. 2) if a man needs to choose one or the other, he'll choose the more attractive (and less bitchy) one. 3) if he needs to commit to one woman for life, he ain't choosing a used up hag with baggage. Not if he has options.

As for the rest of my comment - it was in response to your comment. If you can't see that, I can't help you.

congrats but by the overly bitter tone of your posts it sounds like things aren't going the way you hoped

There isn't a tinge of bitterness within me over any of this. You're either projecting or just pulling that out of a hat. Either way, argue on the substance of my words, not on emotions.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Agreed, for the ones who grow out of it this just narrows down quality men and makes for competition. Nice + tingles does exist! This is like the entire purpose of vetting. Edit: lol I wonder what guy I offended for admitting the reality I experience daily

[–]Blum1989 1 points [recovered]  (3 children) | Copy Link

What's dread?

[–]Ruinedgirl222 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Basically the ability to make a woman feel like you can get other (most likely better) women

[–]Blum1989 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

Is there a narcissistic element implied in dread?

[–]pearlsandstilettosModerator | Pearl[M] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Men's questions belong on askTRP

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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