TheRedArchive

~ archived since 2018 ~

50

You want to get married. It's taken a while to admit it. Saying it out loud -- even in your mind -- feels kind of desperate, kind of unfeminist, kind of definitely not you, or at least not any you that you recognize. Because you're hardly like those girls on TLC saying yes to the dress and you would never compete for a man like those poor actress-wannabes on The Bachelor.

You've never dreamt of an aqua-blue ring box.

Then, something happened. Another birthday, maybe. A breakup. Your brother's wedding. His wife-elect asked you to be a bridesmaid, and suddenly there you were, wondering how in hell you came to be 36-years-old, walking down the aisle wearing something halfway decent from J. Crew that you could totally repurpose with a cute pair of boots and a jean jacket. You started to hate the bride -- she was so effing happy -- and for the first time ever you began to have feelings about the fact that you're not married. You never really cared that much before. But suddenly (it was so sudden) you found yourself wondering... Deep, deep breath... Why you're not married.

Well, I know why.

How? It basically comes down to this: I've been married three times. Yes, three. To a very nice MBA at 19; a very nice minister's son at 32 (and pregnant); and at 40, to a very nice liar and cheater who was just like my dad, if my dad had gone to Harvard instead of doing multiple stints in federal prison.

I was, for some reason, born knowing how to get married. Growing up in foster care is a big part of it. The need for security made me look for very specific traits in the men I dated -- traits it turns out lead to marriage a surprisingly high percentage of the time. Without really trying to, I've become a sort of jailhouse lawyer of relationships -- someone who's had to do so much work on her own case that I can now help you with yours.

But I won't lie. The problem is not men, it's you. Sure, there are lame men out there, but they're not really standing in your way. Because the fact is -- if whatever you're doing right now was going to get you married, you'd already have a ring on. So without further ado, let's look at the top six reasons why you're not married.

    1. You're a Bitch.

Here's what I mean by bitch. I mean you're angry. You probably don't think you're angry. You think you're super smart, or if you've been to a lot of therapy, that you're setting boundaries. But the truth is you're pissed. At your mom. At the military-industrial complex. At Sarah Palin. And it's scaring men off.

The deal is: most men just want to marry someone who is nice to them. I am the mother of a 13-year-old boy, which is like living with the single-cell protozoa version of a husband. Here's what my son wants out of life: macaroni and cheese, a video game, and Kim Kardashian. Have you ever seen Kim Kardashian angry? I didn't think so. You've seen Kim Kardashian smile, wiggle, and make a sex tape. Female anger terrifies men. I know it seems unfair that you have to work around a man's fear and insecurity in order to get married -- but actually, it's perfect, since working around a man's fear and insecurity is big part of what you'll be doing as a wife.

    1. You're Shallow.

When it comes to choosing a husband, only one thing really, truly matters: character. So it stands to reason that a man's character should be at the top of the list of things you are looking for, right? But if you're not married, I already know it isn't. Because if you were looking for a man of character, you would have found one by now. Men of character are, by definition, willing to commit.

Instead, you are looking for someone tall. Or rich. Or someone who knows what an Eames chair is. Unfortunately, this is not the thinking of a wife. This is the thinking of a teenaged girl. And men of character do not want to marry teenaged girls. Because teenage girls are never happy. And they never feel like cooking, either.

    1. You're a Slut.

Hooking up with some guy in a hot tub on a rooftop is fine for the ladies of Jersey Shore -- but they're not trying to get married. You are. Which means, unfortunately, that if you're having sex outside committed relationships, you will have to stop. Why? Because past a certain age, casual sex is like recreational heroin -- it doesn't stay recreational for long.

That's due in part to this thing called oxytocin -- a bonding hormone that is released when a woman a) nurses her baby and b) has an orgasm -- that will totally mess up your casual-sex game. It's why you can be f**k-buddying with some dude who isn't even all that great and the next thing you know, you're totally strung out on him. And you have no idea how it happened. Oxytocin, that's how it happened. And since nature can't discriminate between marriage material and Charlie Sheen, you're going to have to start being way more selective than you are right now.

    1. You're a Liar.

It usually goes something like this: you meet a guy who is cute and likes you, but he's not really available for a relationship. He has some condition that absolutely precludes his availability, like he's married, or he gets around town on a skateboard. Or maybe he just comes right out and says something cryptic and open to interpretation like, "I'm not really available for a relationship right now."

You know if you tell him the truth -- that you're ready for marriage -- he will stop calling. Usually that day. And you don't want that. So you just tell him how perfect this is because you only want to have sex for fun! You love having fun sex! And you don't want to get in a relationship at all! You swear!

About ten minutes later, the oxytocin kicks in. You start wanting more. But you don't tell him that. That's your secret -- just between you and 22,000 of your closest girlfriends. Instead, you hang around, having sex with him, waiting for him to figure out that he can't live without you. I have news: he will never "figure" this out. He already knows he can live without you just fine. And so do you. Or you wouldn't be lying to him in the first place.

    1. You're Selfish.

If you're not married, chances are you think a lot about you. You think about your thighs, your outfits, your naso-labial folds. You think about your career, or if you don't have one, you think about doing yoga teacher training. Sometimes you think about how marrying a wealthy guy -- or at least a guy with a really, really good job -- would solve all your problems.

Howevs, a good wife, even a halfway decent one, does not spend most of her day thinking about herself. She has too much s**t to do, especially after having kids. This is why you see a lot of celebrity women getting husbands after they adopt. The kids put the woman on notice: Bitch, hello! It's not all about you anymore! After a year or two of thinking about someone other than herself, suddenly, Brad Pitt or Harrison Ford comes along and decides to significantly other her. Which is also to say -- if what you really want is a baby, go get you one. Your husband will be along shortly. Motherhood has a way of weeding out the lotharios.

    1. You're Not Good Enough.

Oh, I don't think that. You do. I can tell because you're not looking for a partner who is your equal. No, you want someone better than you are: better looking, better family, better job.

Here is what you need to know: You are enough right this minute. Period. Not understanding this is a major obstacle to getting married, since women who don't know their own worth make terrible wives. Why? You can fake it for a while, but ultimately you won't love your spouse any better than you love yourself. Smart men know this.

I see this at my son's artsy, progressive school. Of 183 kids, maybe six have moms who are as cute as you're trying to be. They're attractive, sure. They're just not objects. Their husbands (wisely) chose them for their character, not their cup size.

Alright, so that's the bad news. The good news is that I believe every woman who wants to can find a great partner. You're just going to need to get rid of the idea that marriage will make you happy. It won't. Once the initial high wears off, you'll just be you, except with twice as much laundry.

Because ultimately, marriage is not about getting something -- it's about giving it. Strangely, men understand this more than we do. Probably because for them marriage involves sacrificing their most treasured possession -- a free-agent penis -- and for us, it's the culmination of a princess fantasy so universal, it built Disneyland.

The bottom line is that marriage is just a long-term opportunity to practice loving someone even when they don't deserve it. Because most of the time, your messy, farting, macaroni-and-cheese eating man will not be doing what you want him to. But as you give him love anyway -- because you have made up your mind to transform yourself into a person who is practicing being kind, deep, virtuous, truthful, giving, and most of all, accepting of your own dear self -- you will find that you will experience the very thing you wanted all along:

Love.


I'm a newcomer and wanted to share this article. It helped soothe my pain. The last part no.6 was hard to swallow and I'm still doubting it. I don't think I'm good enough for a decent guy to actually want to marry me.

What do you guys think?Is she speaking the truth in this article?

Edit:

Here is the link and I have no clue why all numbers are 1 when I want to change everything is numbered right.


[–][deleted] 57 points58 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Well, I'm married. But if I wasn't I wouldn't be taking marriage advice from a women who had been married 3 times on principal. She may have some points, but It all sounds very bitter to me.

[–][deleted] 1 points1 points | Copy Link

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[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thank you random stranger.

[–]freebumblebeeendorsed woman21 points22 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Is she advising women who are single and childless to have/adopt children as a strategy to get a man? That sounds like terrible advice, for the child and the future relationship. Children should not be used as a means to get a ring, and men are not more likely to want a woman with children. I agree with other points of hers, but she does sound bitter, and while it seems she knows how to get married, she doesn't seem to know how to pick men well or keep them around.

[–]Washiface15 points16 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Being a mother will not automatically make you less selfish either. There are plenty of selfish mothers around.

[–]JackGetsItEndorsed Contributor4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This is the truest statement ever made.

[–]FleetingWishEndorsed Contributor26 points27 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I have commented on this before, but the TLDR is to be warry of her advice, because while a lot of it is good, you can tell why she can get married, but is unable to keep a marriage. She talks about men like they are children, and she talks about men like they are afraid of women. She doesn't respect men. Just as long as you notice that, and don't take those parts seriously, a lot of it is good.

[–]always_theoptimist1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

The problem is not men, it's you. Sure, there are lame men out there, but they're not really standing in your way. Because the fact is -- if whatever you're doing right now was going to get you married, you'd already have a ring on.

I feel like this was the best takeaway from the article, taking responsibility for what you are doing wrong rather than blame men. The main idea is good, but her advice on how to act on it should be taken with a grain... no, heck, a whole shaker of salt.

[–][deleted] 28 points28 points | Copy Link

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[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

bingo

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Are you guys honestly suggesting becoming a single mother first, in the hopes that some nice guy provider will come along eventually?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

no we arent suggesting that, that dumb hole in the advice article did and peopel are objecting to it

[–]TempestTcup0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Man, I'm going to adopt 10 babies to attract a super-provider :)

They are not suggesting that - the part at the top of the comment is a quote from the article in the post, and they (in the comments) are discussing how high value men will run fast and far.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

By "they" I meant OP, sorry I wasn't clear! As for the 10 babies... it kinda worked for Angelina Jolie... for a while... lol

[–][deleted] 27 points28 points  (13 children) | Copy Link

there is a lot of good advice in here, but jesus christ, how many of her three husbands must have punched her in the face with that attitude?

"Female anger terrifies men. I know it seems unfair that you have to work around a man's fear and insecurity in order to get married "

this is hilarious. no, men are not afraid of female anger, they just arent allowed to beat obstreperous women to a pulp without having their lives ruined. stop fooling yourselves

[–]always-be-closing10 points11 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

stop fooling yourselves

I think my favorite part is where she advised women who want a baby to 'get one' and that the husband would be along 'shortly'.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Cue in the current army of single mothers.

[–]always_theoptimist2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Seriously, I had to double-take when I read that!

As a side, I can't stand when people compare us "normal" people to Hollywood stars and think we should emulate them. These celebrities live in such a different world than we do, it's doesn't make sense to think "well if it worked for Angelina Jolie it should work for me!" Yeah, but she's Angelina Freakin' Jolie and you're an out-of-shape 36 y/o who's made some not-so-great life choices...

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Can confirm - I ask my girlfriend to punch my back as hard as she can when I need a rougher massage. Feels good!

[–][deleted] -1 points-1 points | Copy Link

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[–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

no youre right, im sure it terrifies betas and omegas who were raised by single moms. i stand corrected.

[–]AerobusTRP MOD2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Sadly this is the exception in which you are 100% correct.

[–]eof-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Perhaps. Even those it doesn't terrify, they are simply good at managing the emotions of women (so rarely have to deal with it) or have no patience for it.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

they are simply good at managing the emotions of women (so rarely have to deal with it) or have no patience for it.

right. masculine

[–]eatplaycrushEndorsed Contributor4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

How to spot a beta

[–]eof-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

?

[–]Gleeful_Robot8 points9 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Or sometimes life throws you curve balls you never expected. I found someone amazing in my twenties but he was killed when we were 25. That took me an extremely long time to truly get over, like years. Yet I moved on best I could and was with someone else who is darling but as we started ring shopping he had an epiphany that he never wanted children despite saying the contrary all the time leading up to it. That was a huge deal breaker for me. I knew I couldn't change him, so I had to end it. We are amicable friends.

Then I got engaged to the next guy after a year of dating but during our engagement he developed mental health issues that made being with him unsafe. He refused to get help and alienated everyone around him. I am still great friends with his sister though, but she won't have anything to do with him anymore either after he assaulted her. That relationship was my mistake, it felt so great having someone successful, handsome and family oriented that was head over heels for me I probably ignored the subtle red flags.

So for the next one I looked for someone who displayed kindness, sanity and great character. He treated me with so much respect and kindness. I saw him in the most stressful of situations and he acted with aplomb; calm, cool, collected. We were on the same page with things. I was happy to be his first mate , so to speak. I always, always made it a point to treat him with respect and kindness, especially during disagreements. He always bragged to everyone how lucky he felt and how I made him feel like the "man". However as soon as we got engaged , his behavior did an an immediate about face. He became cruel, contemptuous and abusive overnight. His reason? Now that we were engaged he claimed he had no more reason to ever be nice to me again. I couldn't believe it. I tried to make heads or tails of it and work it out, makes positive changes, but he made it clear he had no respect for whoever would hold the wife position. I refuse to be abused, especially when it is without rhyme or reason, so I ended that one too. He hid his abusive side for five years. Having talked to other abuse victims, many say it started on the honeymoon, there were no clues prior, it is a common M.O. I am only thankful I was able to get out early.

I have no problem getting engaged. I do all the things suggested in RPW. It's in my nature. Staying engaged however seems to be a whole other story, I admit. I also do not have unrealistic standards and often wonder where I went wrong. But sometimes shit happens. I learned a lot about myself from the last relationship and have made numerous improvements in myself, taken personal responsibility for my stuff, so there's that. People can't understand why I am not married. Men are often surprised to find I am single. Sometimes it's just luck too.

I am in a so good so far relationship now, but I have lost a little faith in myself in picking the right person so I am being cautious.

[–]Venicedreaming0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Alpha characters tend to show up in abusive men often since they both are confident, they take charge and they take shit tests very well. So maybe you should screen more diligently on what separates the 2

[–]Gleeful_Robot0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

He had some alpha characteristics but also many beta ones too. He was very kind and supportive until we got engaged. I did screen him diligently, but he kept his dark side well hidden. Unless you cross paths with someone like this, you can't understand how well they can hide it. Plus, looking back I wouldn't consider him to be alpha.

[–]IVIaskerade0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

The numbers are screwed up because you have a paragraph between them, so it thinks each one is a new list.

To get it to go

1. Thing

Explain

2. Thing

Explain

3. Thing

Explain

instead, you have to put a \ after the number but before the dot: 1\. It won't indent it so you're going to need to bold or italicise it, but that's how to change it.

[–]SocialIQof00 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

You're just going to need to get rid of the idea that marriage will make you happy. It won't. Once the initial high wears off, you'll just be you, except with twice as much laundry.

This part rings the truest to me. I've been married thirteen years. Marriage is HARD. It means loving people when they're at their least lovable. It's not a Disney movie.

[–]MistressCelius0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Question about formatting...

Was it intentional that every point starts with a one? I suppose that they do have all equal value and worth, but it makes me think it's a checklist?

Sorry if this is mundane and all.

[–]go_devildogs 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

I wrote in the bottom of the page about it. I have no clue why it all starts with 1 or how to fix it.

[–]TempestTcup0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

There's something weird in the reddit system that does that. Not sure what the bug is or how to fix it except maybe to do "* 1." "* 2." etc. at the beginning of each number. Asterisk space number 1, enter, asterisk space number 2, etc.

[–]IVIaskerade0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

You use the escape character \ between the number and the dot like so: 4\.

Unfortunately this won't indent it any more, but I'm not sure how to work around that at the moment.

[–]ThrowEDQuestion-4 points-3 points  (83 children) | Copy Link

Or, you're not married because you don't agree with a system that favors women over men, aren't religious, don't want children, and don't need a paper to force commitment that is already there (and wouldn't be somehow stronger by a contract).

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (48 children) | Copy Link

is there a reason you put this here? please tell me how this helps women be marriage material and get good men, ty

[–]TempestTcup7 points8 points  (36 children) | Copy Link

It's funny (not haha) but most of the women on RPW who give these reasons for not "wanting to get married" have no choice in the matter, anyway. Their men don't want to get married for these reasons, and therefore they don't want to either. I would be willing to bet that they would be suddenly pro-marriage if their men did an about-face.

Edited to say that the ironic thing about this is that the women who stay in in this type of relationship are probably the least likely to divorce their men anyway.

[–]FleetingWishEndorsed Contributor2 points3 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

Of course they would, women have nothing to lose by being married.

[–]TempestTcup5 points6 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

That really isn't true. There are many factors where a woman can lose; for instance, if she makes more than he does, she could end up paying alimony, or if she gave more to savings or more towards a house, they will still only get half each if commingled. Same risks as men. Plus I know a lot of men with full custody of their kids, and the ex-wife pays child support.

With all of the men's rights law firms popping up all over the place, the tables have turned.

[–]FleetingWishEndorsed Contributor1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Except for the fact that women typically don't earn more than men.

[–]TempestTcup4 points5 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

The tides have turned on that too. Plenty of women make more than their men; have you not been reading all of the current submissions about that on RPW? It's a huge problem right now. Just because you may not make more, doesn't mean that a lot of other women don't. And keep in mind that the oldest millennials are in their mid-30s.

[–]FleetingWishEndorsed Contributor3 points4 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I am sorry, my meaning was unclear. I didn't mean men in general make more than women in general. I meant married men and those in relationships make more than their partners in general. The difference being that women will typically choose partners who make more than them. For example there may be a large number of unemployed men, however those men typically won't end up getting married. Most women do not want an unemployed marriage/relationship partner.

[–]TempestTcup0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

I don't think you are looking at the reality of young people IRL, and are relying too much on what you read on the internet. Most of the young men and women I know IRL, the women have better jobs than their men, they pay the lions share of the bills, and they take what they get.

These are not unattractive women either, but when there is a large shortage of higher earning men, the lower earners will also get girlfriends. Women would rather be in a relationship than be single for the most part, and a lot of people I know in this situation are married and most have kids. I'm certain that my experience is not an unusual one.

I actually think the lack of high earning men is a huge reason for the CC. With 30% of millennial men unemployed (40% unemployed millennials total according to a quick google search) and many more underemployed, there simply are not enough high earners to go around. When supply is scarce, people tend to line up for a lower quality product.

[–]FleetingWishEndorsed Contributor2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I don't think you are looking at the reality of young people IRL, and are relying too much on what you read on the internet.

I don't think you are looking at the data, and relying too much on personal anecdotes.

Here is the actual data provided by the Bureau of Labor Statistics. According to their data 38% of women out earn their husbands if you include men who are unemployed, and 30% if the men bring in a salary as well.

http://www.bls.gov/cps/wives_earn_more.htm

Unfortunately, I could not find one by age bracket. I will concede to you that the older generation probably has a wider gap than the more progressive younger generation.

But if we supplement it with this graph:

http://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2010/ted_20100708.htm

We can see even the youngest generation of woman (18-24) are not earning as much as their male peers. Of course, we can't tell from here which income bracket they are getting married to.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

When supply is scarce, people tend to line up for a lower quality product.

'struth

[–][deleted] 1 points1 points | Copy Link

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[–]TempestTcup0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

So, then don't; who cares? It was a discussion, not a sales pitch :)

[–][deleted] 1 points1 points | Copy Link

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[–]TempestTcup0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Nah, my husband and I were together for a decade before we eloped to Vegas :)

Our attorney told us that after buying a house together and starting a business together, we were as good as married anyway, so we went ahead and signed another legally binding document. What's one more, right?

[–]ThrowEDQuestion0 points1 point  (22 children) | Copy Link

"I would be willing to bet that they would be suddenly pro-marriage if their men did an about-face."

Not true in my case, though I can't speak for anyone else. I brought up those reasons to my man when he suggested marriage, not the other way around.

"Ironic thing about this is that the women who stay in in this type of relationship are probably the least likely to divorce their men anyway."

Very true in my case. However, the man is still able to divorce the woman.

I truly cannot understand why ANY woman would risk being a divorcee. To me there would be nothing more embarrassing than to have a man marry you and later change his mind, except maybe being a single mother.

I'd love to gain some insight into why so many women and men take the risk of being divorced. Especially the traditional minded to which divorce still has a stigma.

Can anyone married weigh in?

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

being a 40 year old "girl friend" is the most ultimately embarrassing thing.

[–]ThrowEDQuestion1 point2 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

More so than 40 year old divorcee or single mom, though? But I see your point.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

single moms are obviously the lowest. a divorcee is suspect but could always technically have been fucked over, a never married woman will always be low status and a loser in the female stakes, theres no way around it

[–][deleted] 1 points1 points | Copy Link

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[–]tintedlipbalm1 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

People judge divorced people because they got married and then failed. People pity unmarried women past a certain age. Of course pity isn't as harsh. It isn't positive either.

[–][deleted] 1 points1 points | Copy Link

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[–]TempestTcup4 points5 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

Ah, so it's just the label.

You don't think it would be equally embarrassing (for those who embarrass easily; I don't, life happens) to be dumped as a single long term girlfriend?

I didn't get married to get divorced; we decided we wanted to spend the rest of our lives together, and that is what we fully intend on doing.

[–]ThrowEDQuestion1 point2 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

Yes, it is basically the label. A divorcee is someone who failed at marriage. A failure. To me that would be the ultimate embarrassing label, right up their with single mother (except by widowhood).

To me that would be less embarrassing since we didn't publicly declare our commitment in a wedding ceremony in front of everyone we know, and the government, only to later go back on that public commitment. That is my opinion only.

Getting dumped as a single long term girlfriend is less embarrassing, in my eyes, because there was no public declaration of commitment being publicly broken by a divorce. It's less of a big deal for a boyfriend and girlfriend to break up than a husband and wife to divorce.

No one gets married to get divorced and yet divorce still happens. People change. People do things during marriage they never thought they would. People get blindsided by spouses they thought they could trust. It's just too risky, to me.

Of course you and your husband intend to spend the rest of your lives together, and there is a 50% chance that will happen. But marriage and time change people, hormone levels and brain chemistry change people, having children changes people. Nobody is static. And these changes may force an unexpected divorce.

[–]IVIaskerade2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

there is a 50% chance that will happen

No there isn't. Statistics such as "50% of marriages end in divorce" do not mean that any given marriage has a 50% chance of ending in divorce.

[–]ThrowEDQuestion0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

True.

[–]TempestTcup1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

there is a 50% chance that will happen

We have been together for almost 35 years and are still very happily married and in love. I really don't see that happening at all. I don't think you change radically after your 40s.

[–]ThrowEDQuestion0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

That is probably true. Maybe a case for delaying marriage until 40s?

[–]TempestTcup0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

You definitely should.

[–]ThrowEDQuestion1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Why? Can't it just be an individual thing? There is no one size fits all. Marriage isn't for everyone, nor should it be.

But why would you recommend that I do? And can you explain what is gained from a marriage that cannot be gained from a committed and loving LTR?

[–][deleted] 1 points1 points | Copy Link

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[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

You're not telling us anything new, we already understand RP from the male perspective and we are aware of the disadvantages.

[–]ThrowEDQuestion0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Okay. I accept that.

[–]TempestTcup2 points3 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

marriage is unfair to men

It's not marriage that's "unfair", it's divorce that's "unfair".

[–]ThrowEDQuestion2 points3 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Agreed, though marriage itself is slightly skewed in favor of the woman, as well, in my opinion. What benefit can a man derive from it that he can't from a committed LTR?

[–]TempestTcup1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

How is marriage skewed in favor of women? Marriage is just a couple with a legal bond; every marriage is different and is whatever the couple makes of it. The law doesn't dictate what happens within the marriage, only what happens when that marriage falls apart, and only then if one of the participants brings in the law. It is possible to get a divorce without contacting lawyers.

LOL, the man man derives a lot more by not marrying; he can leave at the drop of a hat and get a younger woman pretty easily, leaving his 40yo ex-gf in the dust. Not that married men can't do the same, but I think that men unwilling to marry are much more likely to do so: they want to keep their options open.

Thing is though, marriage isn't any more risky for a man than a LTR as long as they don't have kids, don't mingle assets, they both work and make reasonably similar salaries, etc. When unmarried while mingling assets, having kids, etc, it is just as risky (if not more) as being married, and the law can be brought in to officiate. The risk is in having kids and mingling assets.

[–][deleted] 1 points1 points | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]TempestTcup2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

You will never know.

[–]ThrowEDQuestion1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

True.

[–]IVIaskerade-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

[half of] Women get traded for newer models and left as divorced single moms. [half of] Men get divorce-raped and cucked. Why again, does marriage benefit anyone?

Because of the 50% that don't do that.

[–]ThrowEDQuestion0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

True.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

If you'd like some introspection into why women care about marriage, just have a look at this .

OP is tired of his girlfriend of TEN YEARS, who he describes as:

"I've been in a LTR with a great girl for over 10 years. She is truly a quality person - loyal, kind, good personality. She was with me when I had nothing as a lost mid 20s guy with no job and supported me through the tough times."

Because she's being a normal human being and aging. Please continue to lecture the RPW's on why commitment and marriage is a silly idea.

[–]legessi1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

The point about that post was she isn't trying to be attractive to her SO. My wife does the same thing. It takes almost an act of congress to get her off the couch and away from Netflix. The few times I can, she has fun, but she won't do anything on her own. Tell me that if your guy only sat in his chair day after day and refused to do any sort of self improvement, you wouldn't be considering a change.

Being stagnant isn't attractive. I still love my wife, and I am not considering leaving her. I want her to get up, be active, and make attempts at being attractive.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I'm copying this over from the reply I made to the other person making this point:

That's not the situation at all. He clearly states that his girlfriend never changed. All those years of her youth and peak fertility that she gladly sacrificed for him, when he was struggling and needed support, she was plenty good enough for him then. She was faithful and loyal and supportive for over a decade, and she hasn't changed . When he needed her he didn't care about her yoga pants (and who dresses up to go to the grocery store, really). But now that he doesn't need her anymore, he's tired of her, and wants threesomes and degrading sex acts and finds her totally lame. After all her years of commitment and support, he wonders why its "too much to ask" to be able to cheat on her in front of her (which is what a threesome is).

[–]legessi0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

After re-reading, it looks like he's trying to get some spark back. After 10 years of same old, he's wanting her to be sluttier for him, which happens both ways, from men and women. Any relationship that goes on long enough needs both the man and the woman to work at intamacy, turn ons/turn offs. He improved himself, thus improving his attractiveness, and he's wanting her to improve her attractiveness as well.

She sacrificed her youth and peak fertility, and now he's sacrificing his peak attractiveness for monogamy. Fit, great job, dresses well? He could snag any mate he wants, but he's choosing to fix the issues he has with the woman who stayed with him during his lows.

[–]ventuspilot1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Funny how I read the post you linked to in a totally different way. I read about a guy whose girlfriend doesn't seem to try anymore. He asks for help how to make it work. He wants to be loyal because of her support in the past.

Only one of the responses said next her, and that response got downvoted.

The lesson in the linked thread can be either: "marriage can lock in a guy even if you don't try anymore" or it could be: "support your guy to earn his commitment and loyalty, and never stop putting in effort to be attractive". You guys here seem to lean towards the latter anyway which is awesome.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

That's not the situation at all. He clearly states that his girlfriend never changed. All those years of her youth and peak fertility that she gladly sacrificed for him, when he was struggling and needed support, she was plenty good enough for him then. She was faithful and loyal and supportive for over a decade, and she hasn't changed . When he needed her he didn't care about her yoga pants (and who dresses up to go to the grocery store, really). But now that he doesn't need her anymore, he's tired of her, and wants threesomes and degrading sex acts and finds her totally lame. After all her years of commitment and support, he wonders why its "too much to ask" to be able to cheat on her in front of her (which is what a threesome is).

[–]TempestTcup10 points11 points  (26 children) | Copy Link

This post is about why women aren't married not men. Most women either don't care about the things you listed or they aren't aware they exist. You completely missed the entire point of the post. Did you only read the title and then go off on your little screed?

[–]cats_or_get_out9 points10 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

I sometimes wish there was a married RPW forum because these anti-marriage sentiments get old real quick. I'm already married and want to stay that way. Back off with the anti-marriage bullshit.

I remember being really anti-marriage and vocal about it in my über-feminist days. All that I hear from the anti-marriage camp is the same shit I spewed but with the genders flipped. I think wingnut had a brilliant comment on the subject the other day.

[–]freebumblebeeendorsed woman6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I sometimes wish there was a married RPW forum because these anti-marriage sentiments get old real quick.

If you do that then I have to sit here and defend marriage all day. Is that what you want?!?

In all seriousness though, I'm sick of having to defend why my SO and I want to get married on this forum of all places. Save it for TwoX or TRP or whatever. 99/100 times it's completely irrelevant here.

[–]cats_or_get_out3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm sick of having to defend why my SO and I want to get married on this forum of all places. Save it for TwoX or TRP or whatever.

Well said.

[–]TempestTcup15 points16 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Every post we have on marriage, men come in and lecture us on why marriage is horrible for men. My husband doesn't think it's that horrible, LOL! He thanks me pretty much every day for marrying him, and he loves calling me his wife.

Can marriage be bad for men? Yes, of course, but that doesn't mean that it is always bad for men. Plus, I think a lot of the horror stories they have been told are at least a decade old, or the men didn't contact one of the many men's rights law firms that are so common these days.

[–]cats_or_get_out6 points7 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

I notice the anti-marriage posts come from people who haven't been married (both men and women). The same is true for the anti-kid faction. I get it. You don't want to get married or have kids. Don't go into tiresome political diatribes about it. Gees, different strokes for different folks!

[–]snbdmliss5 points6 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Or those posts come from men that have gone through horrible divorces/baby mamas... and 99.9% of the time, it's because the woman was horrible to begin, a sea of red flags as far as the eye can see, with but they tried to rationalize it all with ooh she's exciting or super hot or whatever... no dude, she's certifiably crazy/bitchy/golddigger/vapid/slutty/narcissistic/what-have-you, and you didn't do your due diligence in vetting her, or nor did you do due diligence in making sure you had the best legal representation for a man (searching yelp isn't enough) or doing the right research necessary and being patient. Also, I have noticed in real life, these men are not acting logical when they get into, or during, or getting out of these situations; most of them are reactionary or ignore anything contrary to their direct mindset, and often they only have a few people around them that will tell them the truth of the situation, but they will ignore those people in favor of whatever it is already entrenched in their mind. Later they will be proven that those few close people that tried to steer them right were actually right, but still, when encountering the next situation they will mostly ignore them again. Too many people think that what's only in their head is right, or what they are feeling is right, and they discount or ignore the wisdom and wishes of their parents or closest friends/family which would actually put them on a better path to happiness and fulfillment in life.

I agree with u/TempestTcup though, it is ironic, the women that are willing to forego marriage because they understand the risks are probably the least likely to divorce their men anyway.

[–]cats_or_get_out2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

99.9% of the time, it's because the woman was horrible to begin, a sea of red flags as far as the eye can see

Amen.

Women are so guilty of this, too. This is why having my parent's blessing was important to me. I knew my parents could see what I couldn't/wouldn't see. They had my best interests at heart. Guess I'm old fashioned that way.

[–]freebumblebeeendorsed woman4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

This is why having my parent's blessing was important to me.

Amen. If you trust your parents' judgment, this is great advice. After I broke up with my first boyfriend, loads of people--best friends, my mom, my closest aunts, etc--all turned around to tell me how they never thought he was right for me and they didn't like us together. Thanks guys, but I really could've used that advice a few years before, when we moved in together. With my current SO, I sat down with my mom after she'd met him a couple times and had her give me her straight opinion. No more finding out later that everyone disliked him but was too polite to tell me.

[–]TempestTcup4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

God, I hate that! What good does it to do to tell you that you are an idiot after the fact? They can't even say "I told you so" because they didn't have the guts to do so.

[–]snbdmliss2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Or more often I've found is they told you so but you simply didn't hear it, and they wanted to be supportive so they just tried to drop the issue instead of risking driving their child away... the human mind is super at ignoring things that go against what you want at that moment.

Still, a man hears what he wants to hear,
And disregards the rest.
*
--The Boxer, Paul Simon

[–]snbdmliss3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I knew my parents could see what I couldn't/wouldn't see. They had my best interests at heart.

Amazing how that works, huh? It took me many years to realize it too. I think most people only ever truly have a few people that actually have their best interests at heart, they generally include their parents, and their SO (that is, if they've managed to get a good SO, which are quite rare to come by IMO, for men or women). Those sets of people generally know the person better than anyone else. Sometimes the group of people can also includes close family members if they know them well, and maybe some of their friends too for sorne areas of life questions (but usually not all areas in life), however I've found most friends to be unreliable for the majority of advice as they don't want to get too involved and don't want to say things that might make the other person upset or what not, and tend to placate, as usually the person is going to do whatever they want to anyway and people don't want to be 'that friend' that said to them, 'hey, you're being an idiot.'

Also, I think friends are especially bad at going the opposite direction, usually pushing people towards horrible behaviors, somewhat beyond their character in a worse direction that won't help the person in the long run. Like friends that push towards (or even just like it when, or live vicariously through) other friends risky/stupid/not inline with future goals behaviors/actions even if they know it won't be good for them in the long run etc. as many people are highly irrational and self minded and really don't care about their friend's outcome that much beyond their own self interests. They'd rather laugh at your antics, or misfortunes, than help you pick up the pieces. You'll never know the loyalty and quality of a friend (or lover for that matter) until it's been tested, and they were there for you.

[–]ThrowEDQuestion-1 points0 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

I am a woman lol. Those are all reasons women don't want to be married, as well. Why would they only be reasons for men? Only men can care about an unfair system? Only men can not want children? Only men can be nonreligious? RP women don't have to be clones. You can be submissive to man without being married to him.

I, personally, don't want to participate in a system unfair to men, which marriage is. Still, I don't disrespect women who do, for whatever reason(s). What I do raise my eyebrows at, are people (women and men) who assume all women should want to get married.

With the high rate of divorce in the US, marriage has no meaning anymore. It is an empty promise, often broken by the women, but also able to be broken by the man. True commitment needs no government contract nor is it solidified by a government contract. If someone is going to cheat or leave, they will do so regardless of marriage. That's just how people are.

Love the word "screed" by the way. Never heard it before so now it will be nice to add it to my vocabulary. Thanks.

[–]TempestTcup4 points5 points  (13 children) | Copy Link

If marriage vows are taken seriously, and it is truly "death do we part" then why would it be a problem? The point I made still stands: Most women don't know about or care about the "unfairness" of marriage. If you don't want to get married because you think you will divorce-rape your man, then by all means, don't. You are one in a million :)

[–]ThrowEDQuestion-1 points0 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

I don't think I'm that rare actually. I don't think I would divorce him, since I don't believe in divorce, but there is always a chance he would divorce me or cheat on me. I can only control my own behavior, not his, so I'd rather not put myself in a situation in which I could be divorced. That is solely my opinion, I'm not advocating other people to make the same decision as me.

[–]TempestTcup4 points5 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

So if you had a wonderful man, who wants nothing more than to marry you and make you his wife, you would not do it? If it was important to him that the marriage was in the eyes of the law, you would still refuse?

And I don't think that marriage is necessary, but it really does make a couple closer; my husband and I were shocked at how much more of a bond we had after being together, perfectly happy, a decade before marriage.

YMMV though.

[–]ThrowEDQuestion1 point2 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

Well, I don't think I would be in a relationship with a man like that to begin with honestly, no matter how wonderful, since that really isn't my "type".

Still, I respect that you and your husband formed a deeper bond through marriage.

For that to happen, both parties have to truly believe in marriage. I think I am too disillusioned with the concept to believe in it fully, which is another reason it would be disingenuous for me to marry a man who marriage was very important to, since it isn't important to me.

I am disillusioned because not only have I seen how both marriage and divorce have hurt men, I have also seen how both have hurt women. I don't want to risk it myself, and I don't want the man I love to risk it, either.

[–]TempestTcup2 points3 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

Judging from all of your ED posts, you are correct in not wanting to get married. If you are already having problems to the point of you being this frustrated, marriage would be a huge mistake. It's good that you are against or unwilling to get married.

Unrelated to the current problems, if you are so against marriage, I'm certain that men will oblige you fully.

[–]ThrowEDQuestion0 points1 point  (8 children) | Copy Link

That is a definite reason in my reluctance to get married, however it is not the only nor the first reason. The first reason, before ED issues ever arose, was the risk of divorce, which is still the most important reason in my eye.

If I could 100% guarantee I would never get divorced or cheated on, I would consider getting married, despite ED. But since it's impossible to do that, I'm against marriage for ME personally--no one else.

"Men" don't need to oblige me fully, since there is and only ever will be one man in my life. That man in particular of course will oblige, since you can't get married without both parties consenting. What an odd thing to say.

[–]TempestTcup1 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

What an odd thing to say

Now you are being obtuse. I'll type it slowly so that you might be able to understand :)

If you don't want to get married, only men who also don't want marriage will stick around. Obviously your bf is that kind of guy, so you don't have to worry about other men :)

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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